Nissan Murano vs Toyota Highlander vs Subaru B9 Tribeca vs Honda Pilot

rsholland

I agree. The criticism of the front end styling is way out of proportion to reality. It's not anywhere as bad as many would like you to believe. It's "different" and "thought-provoking," for sure—neither of which is the same thing as "bad."

Bob

thegraduate

It probably doesn't get a fair shot because of its looks, I agree. I recently got a new car, but I have to 'fess up. If I was in the market for an SUV, I wouldn't have even test driven the B9 (I don't get the name??) because I just couldn't get past its looks.

I too think that the X5 is due for a change, but like the last model 5-series (pre-Bangle), it has a look that will stay modern for a long time.

At least Subie went out on a limb with styling. When you do that you risk sales, but the potential gains are incredible (sales of the "ugly" 745i BMW shot up with its redesign despite many critics of its awkward styling.). I guess I'll be one of those that got pushed away by it, while you (plural form of 'you') got attracted to it b/c of it.

It looks like nothing else on the road, you are right, but I think there's a reason nobody else designed anything like that (front end).

Sorry, just my position on the whole thing!

Have a good one guys, and I'll get out of your hair for a while.

rsholland

(sales of the "ugly" 745i BMW shot up with its redesign despite many critics of its awkward styling.).

So much for the car "design critics" out there...

A lot of BMW buyers could care less what gearheads on these car sites think. Many of these high-end buyers have never visited sites like Edmunds. Same with BMW, they could care less too, as most of these critics aren't 7-Series customers, or part of that target audience.

Bob

jeffmc

All right, now I've gotta chime in with my top 3 crossovers, based only on looks:
1. Volvo XC90
2. Mazda CX-7
3. Subaru B9 Tribeca
This is a rapidly changing segment, though, and I think we'll see many attractive vehicles as the competition continues to heat up.

rsholland

I agree with your list. Although I believe the CX-7 is a in a class under the other two. Regardless, it's a good list.

Bob

tyyeh0

I think the Tribeca, as with all other Subarus, are sold through its value. This value comes from it's safety(active and passive), reliability, and pricing. Subaru's styling makes their cars stand out, which I think is a good thing.

Different people will like different designs, but I think the Tribeca's design is pretty attractive. But then again, I think most if not all American brand's SUVs are pretty blah. The RX(a very comfortable drive) is growing on me, but it's not attractive. The X5 is nice, but too expensive. The FX is nice(performance and styling), but there's not much cargo room. The only thing about the current 06 Tribeca, is the suspension tuning. It does not communicate a very stable ride (I am used to an Infiniti G35). Hoping the new suspension tuning will correct this.

I think most people who like the current Alpha Romeo designs ( who have actually seen one in person), will like the Tribeca's design. No doubt people are making a big deal about the front end of the car.

From what I've read, I see the following as the main advantages of the Tribeca over other SUVs.

1) Distinctive styling
2) short turning radius, combined with good rollover rating. (wide suvs such as the mdx can get a good rollover rating at the cost of the car's nimbleness) It's very easy to park when I took it for a 24 hr test drive.
3) good crash test scores
4) value
5) reliabliity -- new car, but the chasis, engine, transmission seem to be from existing parts.
6) safety features (awd,brake-assist,vdc,roll-over sensor,backup camera, reverse warning)
7) decent cargo space

master1

Nobody has mentioned the best thing about the Tribeca. HANDLING. I test drove the Tribeca and it handles just like a car, and it feels glued to the floor. The Highlander, and Pilot do not feel as good as the Tribeca. The Tribeca has remarkable handling. When you compare the Highlander, Pilot, and Tribeca, they are all similiar. They are all safe, reliable, and bla bla. But the one major difference is the Tribeca's handling. (Just something to pay attention to if you drive one)

harop

How about compared to Murano. I had a chance some time ago to test drive all three Murano/Highlander/Pilot back to back and to me there was a big difference on handling. I think Tribeca must be as good.

tyyeh0

If handling is the main concern, I'll take the fx35 w/o a thought. I say this after comparing rx330, fx35, X5, tribeca, mdx.

master1

The Murano, in my opinion, has similiar handling to the tribeca. But I feel that the Tribeca has the best handling out of all. I think that the Tribeca is best for a family with children younger than 12 because the second row seat has very little leg room. Although the Tribeca seems to be a very well built SUV, I wouldn't recommend it for a family with a child older than 12.

aka1

I have to completely disagree with you about the second row leg room. There is a huge amount of space back there, especially if you have your third row seats folded flat into the ground you can move the 2nd row seats an additional few inches. There is no way anyone that has sat in a B9 and has tried to adjust the seat can say that it doesn't have more than ample room.

One caveat, if the 3rd row seats are used, the second row must be pushed forward for leg room in the rear, there is still more room in the second row with the 3rd row being used than does my brother's Audi A4.

master1

Yes, I know that the seats can move back and forth. But I didn't buy it because my family could not get comfortable back there. It really does have very little leg room when compared to the Pilot and Highlander. (In my opinion)

ateixeira

fudd2be: no sweat, lark6 got a Pilot also, he seems to like it. Congrats.

Leg room - you have to hit a release lever in the 2nd row of the Tribeca, then the seat moves back another 4". In all there is 8" of travel, so it varies from very little to very much leg room.

I'm 6' tall and with the 1st and 2nd rows all the way back my knees don't even come close to touching the front seat.

So many magazines were missing that lever that Subaru actually put photos explaining it in Drive magazine, their publication for owners.

-juice

morey000

Well- I think the murano is a whole heck of a lot better looking than the highlander or pilot- two vehicles that look like overgrown boxy station wagons.

thegraduate

The problem is that you pay for the looks with a lack of interior space. I rode around in an FX45 this weekend (a Murano clone) and it seemed pretty cozy (although not bad, it was similar in roominess to our old 2002 CR-V). There is 32 cu.ft. of space behind the rear seat of the curvy Murano, 33.5 behind the seat in the CR-V. With the seats folded down the Murano has 82 cu. ft, the CR-V with 72.

With the Pilot vs Murano in cargo room it goes like this
*Pilot w/ third row folded

*Honda Pilot ----------- Nissan Murano
47.6 cu. ft -------------- 32 cu.ft.

You pay for that chopped off rear, but to some, form comes before function, and there's nothing wrong with that.

mjk7

Thanks to your informative posts I am on the verge of taking the plunge. I've got what I think is a great lease deal on a 7 passenger LX with Nav and DVD $700 down (which includes first month payment, tag fees, and a few extra bucks) at $403/month 12K miles 36 months. I am turning in a 2003 Murano on lease which I got 3 weeks after they came out. It has been a good car but I was looking to get into something with a 7 seat option would be handy. I was considering the Pilot and the Highlander, the XC90 as well. The XC90 although quite a bit more expensive does have an attractive lease going now but it still is significantly more money and the complaints about reliablilty are deafening. The Pilot is much larger but along with the Highlander has to be the most boring car created. No doubt it is functional but there is no joy in driving the car. I had a Lexus RX300 and the Highlander's handling is even looser than that of the Lexus. The lease deal on the B9 is unbeatable on a 40K car!! Besides that the car handles better than all of the above including the Murano. The other thing that attracted me is Subaru's AWD system which in my opinion is superior to the others mentioned. We had a 2nd hand outback impreza wagon years ago and it was the best car in the snow by far. Thanks to your informative posts I was informed about the 2 lever issue with the 2nd row seating allowing for much more glide in the 2nd seat to accomodate third row passengers. Before going to my local dealer (who did know about this) I was at the Philly car show and the model demonstrating the 3rd row seat access had no clue. I walked away very disappointed thinking the 3rd row was for small pets only. Clearly there is decent room in the third row (compared to comparable vehicles)if you know how to adjust the 2nd seat properly. I am 6'3" and although I have no intention on sitting anywhere but the driver's seat, even I was able to get back there. I am truly excited about the Tribeca. I am in disbelief after reading many not so complimentary reviews focusing on the looks. In my opinion ( and I must give you the backround that I drove Saabs for 10 years prior to the GM/Saabaru mairrages), I think the looks of the Subaru are awesome. If the same car was released by Porsche the magazines would all hail the style. I don't get it. The front is cool. Who wants to drive a car that looks so generic like a Pilot? As far as what I read about the upcoming 07 changes, they seem minor to me and not worth the wait given this lease deal. What I would like to see in the future models is blue tooth, satellite radio, a better roof rack (thule and Yakima do not yet have fit kits), better colors, and a 6 speed manual transmission. Sorry about going on and on but I've read so many posts that I had to vent. A few qustions though--- the lease deal I was quoted is thier special with alot of the down money worked into the lease. Money factor .0032 int .08% with 56% residual ( which apparently came down from 60% when first released - when it goes lower they probably won't be able to lower the interest rate to off set it). Is there any wiggle room? Might I get rubber mats or some accessories thrown in if I push in anybodies opinion? Secondly tan or slat grey leather? I've always had tan but it does tend to show the dirt much more any thoughts??

01mdx

Congrats. It looks like you found what you want. I looked at but did not drive the B9. There was no point for me as I plan to use the 3rd row often and even with the slider, the Pilot's 3rd row is more functional. Besides, I am getting an EXL 4WD Pilot for just under 30K and that's a good deal IMO.

As for your comments on the Pilot, yes it is boring but honestly IMO boring is better than ugly. And yes I know some people like the looks of the B9 but I think more do not. If you do, more power to you. If the Pilot looks boring you could always looks at the MDX which is a bit sportier. I already had an MDX so I wanted something a bit different but it meets my needs perfectly. Anyway, I have respect for Subies so good luck and enjoy your new vehicle. :shades:

ateixeira

Congrats. They offer pretty good residuals on the lease deals so I would not expect much wiggle room.

-juice

thegraduate

Thanks to your informative posts I am on the verge of taking the plunge. I've got what I think is a great lease deal on a 7 passenger LX with Nav and DVD

A couple of questions...

1) Aren't all Pilots 8-passenger vehicles?
2) How did you get an LX with NAV and DVD? I didn't know they made them...2006 model changes things up?

mjk7

You're right the Pilot doesn't come with both. I am getting the Tribeca .

mjk7

You are right but I think I got them to throw in a hat. $ 445 /mo including tax (9%)36 mo nothing down except 1st mo payment and tags. 12K /yr . I am still deciding color I think mahogany red/beige Hope to be a new owner Fri or Sat. My dealer bought out my lease on my Murono Which saved me a payment. I think my in laws from Sao Paulo will like it when they visit this Sumner

ateixeira

Congrats in advance, in that case.

I'm from Brazil, and my wife is American (and owns a Subaru). So we're you guys, backwards.

LOL

-juice

jeffmc

Your original post said you were getting an "LX", rather than saying a "Limited", so I think that's where the miscommunication happened.

master1

Does anyone have any questions? This discussion has been very quiet lately. Of course, feel free to post

ateixeira

I have a question.

Anyone with a new Pilot with the cylinder deactivation note an improvement in gas mileage?

I'm curious because early on the Odyssey folks were not too happy with the real-world mileage, I wonder if the vehicle it too heavy for the VCM to kick in often enough to make a difference.

Also, in testing Consumer Reports actually obtained slightly better mileage with their Sienna (compared to the Ody). I wonder what Pilot owners are getting for fuel mileage. Any feedback?

-juice

toca

'03 Pilot EX. ~Avg is 19 in mostly suburban driving.

ateixeira

I wonder if the VCM models do any better?

-juice

toca

I'm sure it does. If I'm not mistaken, the Pilot's with VCM are 2WD and not AWD. Some claim (hondapilot dot org) they are getting low 20's in normal driving and mid 20's highway.

In highway driving I have scene 24mpg with my '03 AWD since it is running in front wheel drive mode at that point. But the hills of CT are tough to get anything better than the 19 or 20 I get carting the kids around town. Still the best all around utility vehicle I have owned.

bobw3

From the Subaru webpage, here are the specs for the Tribeca:
Legroom 2nd row/3rd row 34.3 in./30.9 in.
Cargo capacity 8.3 cu. ft.

I don't know how anyone can call that roomy. Here are the same specs for my Ford Freestyle:
Legroom 2nd row/3rd row 40.4 in./33.3 in.
Cargo capacity 21 cu. ft.

I'm sure there are lots of reasons to by the tribeca, but I doubt if interior space is one of them if you're ever needing to use the 3rd row with luggage.

ateixeira

People don't cross-shop those, though. Tribeca owners are mostly cross-shopping the Murano. They come from MDXs and RXs, and aren't looking for a boxy and conventional Freestyle.

Having said that, Freestyle is impressively roomy. Compare it to something closer to its boxy wagon format and you come up with a Cadillac SRX. The Freestyle is shorter and on a shorter wheelbase but has a *lot* more room than the SRX.

The 2nd row of the Tribeca slides 7 inches fore and aft. Most publications did not realize there was a release knob that lets the seat move back another 4". Slide it back all the way, and there is tons of leg room, and the seats are nicely shaped to hold 3 adults in comfort.

The 3rd row is a squeeze, so leave that for kids only. The Freestlye is much better there.

-juice

aka1

My neighbors wifes Honda Minivan has 2nd row/ 3rd row 40.0 in/41.1 in. legroom with Cargo capacity of 38.4 behind the 3rd row. If you need to carry cargo behind the 3rd row, a minivan may be more suitable.

I rarely if ever have a use for the 3rd row, I have my middle row seats in the B9 stretched all the way back giving me ~39 inches of leg room.

Its terrible to hear that only after a couple of years on the market, Ford is pulling the plug on the Freestyle- has your vehicle been plagued by all the issues?? Dim Stereo lights, doors that won't close, flickering headlights, CVT issues, car not starting on a cold morning, suspension noise?

You are correct however, the 3rd row in the B9 is awfully small...

AKA1

ateixeira

I thought they spared the Freestyle from the chopping block, no?

-juice

toca

Correct. The Freesyle remains and the Mercury replacement doesn't happen.

Only question is how well the Ford Edge and Freestyle co-exist since they are similar vehicles.

x5killer

those reviews are so obviously bogus and from disturbed individuals, read the 100's of reviews from real B9 Tribeca owners on the B9x forum.

I'm at 10,500 miles and its been the best and most fun car I've had yet. no leaks no problems none of that b.s.

looking forward to seeing the upgrades improvements on this already great first year model which is rare.

bobw3

Only question is how well the Ford Edge and Freestyle co-exist since they are similar vehicles.

The Edge is a sportier 5 pass vehicle, where the Freestyle is a 7 pass more family vehicle, so I think they'll have different markets.

aka1

I consider the Freestyle a station wagon, while the Edge will be a "crossover"- if the prices are on the same scale, I think people that just don't have a need for the three rows of seats will definitely go to the Edge, afterall- it seems that more people tend to go with the SUV style vehicles over station wagons.

thegraduate

The Edge would be more likely to infringe on sales of the aging Escape, a vehicle that would be priced similarly to the new Edge (I think).

ateixeira

Hee hee, that's Fords name for the styling theme.

I agree with aka1, the Freestyle is really more of a wagon, maybe a tall wagon, but still a wagon and not so much a crossover. It replaced the Taurus wagon in the lineup and even though AWD is an option, there isn't really a lot of ground clearance.

-juice

bobw3

Yes, the Freestyle could be better called the Ford 500 wagon.

skerner

Hi All - looks like B9 has a good lease - but I drive over 25k miles a year and have gotten killed turning back leased cars (returning a 2003 MDX next week and it will hurt alot).
So - I've been looking to buy this time - so want to spend less - loved the Freestyle, but hated the CVT - I also own a Murano and love it - it's leased...
So - can I buy Murano w/Nav for 30k?
Can I buy as B9 5 passenger w/nav for 30k?
I'm going to try for the B9 first this weekend - drove it briefly - engine was a little noisy - but seemed to handle ok - Murano is very windy at highway speeds - engine is quiet but lot's of cabin noise - I like murano handling a lot -
Wish us luck - any feedback is appreciated
Steve

jeffmc

As far as the B9 Tribeca goes, $30k is gonna be pretty hard to get for a vehicle with $32,729 invoice (5-pass Ltd w/NAV). Depending on your region, a $1000 discount may be available if you finance through Subaru (Chase), bringing it to $31,729. I bet $30,500-$31k is as low as you'll be able to find. At least you're very close, price-wise.

Best of luck, and have fun shopping! Let us know how it turns out.

skerner

Thanks Jeff - have requests out at 3 subaru dealers in a 20 minute radius of my home - will play with them today and see who, if any take the bait. Thanks for the info - will advise.
Steve

ateixeira

You gotta get the Limited to get NAV, so that brings the price up. Base models are around $28k now, a relative bargain IMO. But a Ltd/NAV will be around $31k.

-juice

morey000

I was just at a local dealer last night, and they had big red sale tags hanging on all the Tribeca's which offered between 3K and $4K off the sticker (depending on how well equipped). So- $30K for an 5-pass Ltd with Nav doesn't seem unreasonable. The '07's will be here soon and perhaps now is a time to deal. Unless you really need seat memories, which come on the '07's.

master1

About 2 months ago a Subaru dealer was selling NEW Tribecas for:

$24,500 base
$26,500 Limited

This dealer is in upstate NY. I think it was route 303 and the dealer name was something like Mike's subaru. I was thinking about buying one but changed my mind
Anyone find that interesting?

mhclawyer

Weren't those "wind-damaged" cars sold without the paint warranty, but otherwise ok?

master1

They weren't damaged in any way - same car with warranty

mhclawyer

The best price that I have seen on the '06 Tribeca 5 Passenger Ltd. (no options) has been $30,888 for invoice minus dealer cash of $200 and customer cash of $1,000, for a total price of $29,688. I think that SOA will take another $1,000 off if you finance with them.

mhclawyer

Anyone know what the new purchase and/or lease incentives for Subaru will be on May 1? Do you think that they will increase the dealer cash, customer cash, and finance cash for the 06 Tribeca?

ateixeira

My guess is they'll stay the same. We probably won't see any changes until the 07s start to arrive.

-juice