Nissan Murano vs Toyota Highlander vs Subaru B9 Tribeca vs Honda Pilot

ateixeira

This should be standard in this class. It is for many competitors.

-juice

scott1

"Subaru was CR's most reliable brand for MY2004, ahead of Lexus and Infiniti"

Sorry, but that is not true. Subaru did well in their reliablity survey, but did not top their list in any category. In almost all model types, either a Toyota or Lexus was number one.

jeffmc

Scott - I think you may be misinterpreting that statement. As a brand, Subaru topped the list. Toyota and Lexus may have had category leaders, but those scores may have been pulled down by other models they make. This is an overall award, not by model. Here's a direct quote from the Consumer Reports press release:

"Subaru showed considerable improvement across its product line. This year, with just 8 problems per 100 cars, it had the best reliability record of any manufacturer in 2004. It suffered last year, largely because of the poor showing of its new Baja truck. Honda, with 9 problems per 100, and Toyota, and Acura, both with an average of 10 problems per 100, were close behind Subaru this year. Lexus finished fourth, tied with Infiniti and Hyundai with a problem rate of just 11 per 100."

...and the list:
"Brand Problems per 100 vehicles
Subaru 8
Honda 9
Acura 10
Toyota 10
Hyundai 11
Infiniti 11
Lexus 11
Audi 12
Mini 13
Ford 15
Pontiac 15
Cadillac 16
Chevrolet 16
Chrysler 16
GMC 16
Jeep 16
Mazda 16
Saab 16
Dodge 17
Mercury 17
Volvo 17
Buick 18
Nissan 19
Saturn 19
BMW 21
Volkswagen 23
Mercedes-Benz 25
Lincoln 26"

ateixeira

Indeed it *is* true, as a brand CR specifically stated that Subaru ranked highest. Not one particular car, I'm talking the whole lineup. They wrote that verbatim in the April 2005 Car Issue.

Subaru was the most reliable brand overall for MY2004 vehicles as measured in CR's survey.

Jeff posted the detailed results.

-juice

angelobanjo

This thread (and others) have been very helpful in getting some very different (but insightful) viewpoints.

Last night we went for a second test drive and ultimately decided it was a no go on the Tribeca. It was very tough to make that decision, but I think Subaru made a fatal mistake on the engine.

We live in Colorado. The lowest point in the entire state is 3300 feet above sea level. Most non-turbo (and underpowered) cars have problems getting up hills and mountains. The Tribeca literally limped up small inclines. It was winded and maxing rpm’s even here in Denver.

The rest of the design is very well thought out. It handles well, doesn’t feel top heavy, good layout of the controls, and has a third row seat for occasional use. We had a Murano for rental all last week, so it was good to have a “direct” comparison. The Murano was incredibly hard to back up and the instrument panel was clunky designer overkill. It also felt very top heavy around corners. Without a third row seat, we will never seriously consider it though.

However, the CVT was very smooth. The Tribeca’s automatic was painful. It maxed out before each shift and had a hard time making up it’s mind on the interstate. Shame on Subaru for using such an underpowered engine.

ateixeira

It's fine at sea level. LOL

But seriously, you might be better off with a turbo, because it can keep the boost cranked up and just use the bleed off valve a little less.

I'd recommend an Outback XT (turbo) but you said you need a 3rd seat. Maybe an XC90 T6, used? There are few turbos in the segment.

-juice

chesco

Have to agree with everything angelobanjo says.

The engine overrevving to 6600 rpm during routine acceleration is not a very good selling point. A car in this price class should have a more responsive engine.

I am surprised the carmaker recommending premium is not more of an issue with this group. Those of us who heed such advice are going to spend 20 cents more a gallon in PA.

cluelesspa

the thing that drove me away from a Murano:
1. the rear space is very low. its built too rounded in the rear panels to fit a wide tall item (say a snow blower in a box or a large TV) easily.

2. the buttons are laid out all weird location. like the window buttons. just would bug me too often. The interior is not ergonomic

droo

The window controls? Really? Where else would they go? :confuse:

I guess some cars have them on the center console (which seems odd to me), but I've never owned a vehicle that had them anywhere other than the armrest...I know Infiniti puts 'em on the inside edge of the seats (absolutely hate this, so I guess it's just a personal preference)...

ozzynyc

I've gotten this quote from Nissan dealership. Pls let me know what you think about it. Murano 2005 SL AWD with Touring Package. 42 months, 0 down, 0 up-front, sign and drive $370+tax. One problem i am thinking about is the warranty periord. It's only for 36 months from Nissan. Does this mean i am screwed if it brakes after 36 months? This kills the deal. 36 months lease will be an extra $40 a month. Let me know. Thanks!

butchbr73

..."Does this mean i am screwed if it brakes after 36 months?"....

....yep....

rsholland

Does this mean i am screwed if it brakes after 36 months?

Gosh, I would hope it would brake when you first press the brake pedal!

Bob

ateixeira

On my Miata they're in the center console. Still very unnatural, I still reach for the doors even after 4 years of ownership.

-juice

cluelesspa

short term memory going .. LOL ... they had some switches in the center console in the front part I think next to the ashtray area. it just seemed a stretch to reach those controls from the drivers seat. the interior just didn't feel ergonomical as compared to other vehicles. surprising since its a nissan. I would have thought they would do user test of the interior like Lexus/Toyota does before building the design.

Here's a pic. what controls are under the main vertical center radio console area? strange place

jeffmc

So what are the switches on the door armrest?

Man, I didn't realize the Murano interior was so unattractive - instrument cluster in particular. Blech. It all just doesn't work together.

ateixeira

It's a bit avant-garde, but some pieces look tacked on rather than designed-in. It's not very well integrated. The gauge pod and the center stereo surround don't seem to mesh with the design.

Still, it's worlds better than the Quest, which is just dismal.

-juice

tigger5753

Windows and door locks are on the armrest.. under the center pod are the controls for the side view mirrors, heated seats and AWD lock.

The center pod "floating design" is a bit odd, but it moves the controls closer to the driver/passenger. I've gotten used to it and like it a lot...

droo

Under the center pod is a pretty clumsy place for the mirror adjustment buttons, I'll definitely give you that one. Seems silly not to be able to have your head in the normal driving position when adjusting the mirrors. Plus it is quite a reach.

I'm also not a huge fan of the instrument cluster pod in the Murano. It's pretty cool when you're sitting in front of it, but it does look kinda stuck-on in the overall context of the dash. It's similar to the pod idea in the Z, but they pulled it off better there. At least it's not Honda/Toyota bland...I'll give Nissan points for trying, but subtract a few points for trying too hard.

Actually, I think the B9 has the coolest interior of the 4 vehicles in this thread, but given the overall package, I'm still going Murano.

ateixeira

It's funny, but I kind of want both inside a car/SUV.

By that I mean I want easy-to-use ergonomics, buttons and displays where you expect them to be, in a natural location.

As long as that is not disturbed, have at it in terms of design, go nuts!

So if you find the Murano functional and like the design, more power to you.

-juice

tigger5753

Mirror adjustments are done usually once and stationary, so being under the center console is no biggie. Most cars have them on the armrest though..

Droo- have you checked out the new pics of the 2006 Murano? In the interior, there are new chrome accents on the door handles, instruments and center console, 7 inch color info screen and std. backup camera, as well as new lighting for the instrument cluster. For the exterior, a slightly redesigned grille, additional chrome accents, new wheels, LED stop lamps, etc.

PM me if you want the link (can't post it due to board rules)

droo

I did find that link on a different board, I've been very curious about the changes. The word "chrome" popped up a lot in the initial list of changes, so it's good to see that they didn't really go overboard with too much bling (though I still want to check out the chrome lower front bumper and rocker rails in person).

The grill was much less of a change than I thought it might be, and I'm not in love with the wheels (maybe the SL rims will be cooler). Interested to see what color the gauge faces actually are, it's hard to tell from the pics since the lights are on (wondering if there's a color change with the lights on/off, like on my Maxima SE, where the gauges are white with black numbers during the day, then switch to white on black with the lights on). I didn't really like the orange faces, so I think the new ones look pretty cool. Definitely like the big color screen and backup camera, though I didn't have too much trouble backing up when I had a rental for a week.

I sure can't argue with function coming first, then making it look cool from there.

x5killer

I do like the new grille of the Murano better then the old but its not enough to choose a Murano over the B9 Tribeca imo.

just a note in trying to find pics of the new grill the only pics i found on nissans site of the 2006 Murano show a grille pretty much the same as the old one so i'm not sure what new grille i've seen on a Murano on the road that i'm speaking of that i thought looked better but maybe it was aftermarket or something.

I remember the same thing with the Lexus RX, seeing only very few that had a diff and what i thought better grille. but never saw it in any offical pictures so maybe that was aftermarket as well.

ateixeira

I did a quick search on 2006 AND Murano and the pics I saw look nearly the same, so the changes must be very subtle.

-juice

droo

I don't even think it qualifies as "redesigned" (Nissan's word), which would indicate an actual change, it's more of a "refresh". It now has 4 vertical bars instead of 3 on the previous version, and they're shaped slightly different than before, barely noticeable. I was expecting something more dramatic...

x5killer

Then whatever I saw must be after market. I've seen similiar on the Lexus
RX and even an Infiniti FX i think. Its like a generic clean looking fine toothed girlle. Must not be factory. When I first saw it on a few Lexus RX i thought it must be an options but now afte seing what seemed similiar on a Murano and I think an Infiniti FX among possibly other suvs including commonly on GMC suvs, it must be a popular generic after market type grille for ppl who dont like the factory.

Thing is on the Murano it looked way better then the factory and not aftermarket so that isn't saying much for the factory grille.
\

aka1

Great point about not being able to fit a sheet of dry wall in the Tribecca- an SUV that was honestly not meant to carry those things. It seems like a Ford F-150 would have better suited your needs or a Ford SportTrac (Explorer with a pickup bed). RX330 owners, Acura MDX owners, and B9 Tribeca owners will probably never use their vehicles to haul dry wall.

As with any new vehicle, there is a learning curve associated with its limits, in terms of acceleration (knowing when to back off the throttle and waiting for the semi to pass on an on ramp), handling, front and rear limits when parking- I'm sure that sensors will become a factory option sooner than later- but till then I don't anticipate too many problems with owners backing their cars into other cars....

ateixeira

Just get the optional roof rack and cross bars.

Here are 4 sheets on my Forester. Piece of cake. Who needs a pickup for small jobs like this?

-juice

aka1

With an interior as nice as my B9 Tribeca's or as nice as an RX330, I would never attempt to load any drywall, the Tribeca's roof rack is pretty weak as well- I don't think it's rated to hold much weight. For 19.95 I can rent a truck from Home Depot keep my car clean, no fear of scratching paint or bumping into anything either.

Just a funny pic of a car doing something it wasn't supposed to...

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Workshop/Overload- T.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Workshop/&h=100&w=100&sz=3&tbnid=PRC4HHl- 35ZcJ:&tbnh=77&tbnw=77&hl=en&start=70&prev=/images%3Fq%3Doverload%2Bcar%2B%26start%3D60%26- svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

stever

Your link didn't work, but I assume you are talking about the Lumber Car.

Steve, Host

ateixeira

I laugh every time I see that.

Forester's roof rack can hold 150 lbs, but I wouldn't carry more than maybe 5-8 sheets or so, just because I don't want to be top-heavy.

I'm sure a Tribeca can handle a few sheets for Harry Homeowner. Any more and you'll probably hire a contractor anyway.

-juice

aka1

That's exactly the picture I was trying to post a link to- very funny, very very funny... Thanks Steve.

highlot

I'd love any thoughts about comparing the two. I heard 2005 Pilot had stablization problems, that they're aren't owning up to. I have driven both.

I drive a Matrix but it was an emergency replacement for a Corolla. I find I am so limited with space etc and I want to "upgrade."

landdriver

highlot:

I'm a Highlander owner. In a nutshell the Highlander is smaller and somewhat plain, the Pilot a bit larger and has more character. Both are excellent vehicles with excellent reliability, so you won't go wrong either way (not familiar with the stabilization problem). If you don't need the extra space then go with the Highlander; it's a car people fall in love with!

Also check out past posts to the Toyota Highlander vs. Honda Pilot discussion.

tidester

Here's the link for anyone interested: Toyota Highlander vs. Honda Pilot

tidester, host

robsis

highlot: IMHO, the Highlander has a better safety/stability system than the Pilot; and, as a retired accident reconstructionist, this is imperative. When I test drove both, I also found the Highlander to be quieter. The Pilot was certainly a nice car, tho; however, my desire for something a little smaller, the noise factor, and the safety of the Toyota STAR system won me over. During my research, I could find nothing to substantiate a Pilot stabilization problem. It was a great vehicle. I just decided the Highlander was better suited to my needs....just don't buy it for that third row seat!!

I don't think you could go wrong with either, however.

Good luck in your choice.

alexsuv

I saw many people excited about test driving or after owning Tribeca for just a couple of weeks. What about the quality review after few Ks? In fact, I am horrified with this review: http://www.carsurvey.org/model_Subaru_B9+Tribeca.html. Does anybody have any serious problems with Tribeca after 10, 30, 50K? Thanks!

ateixeira

There is a problems thread but it's not very active (which is a good thing). One person did have serious problems but it's being taken care of under warranty. That's about it from Edmunds members.

That link didn't work for me, so I can't comment.

-juice

stever

We have ~52 consumer reviews of the '06 B9 at the top of the forum in the blue Consumer Ratings box. There's numerical scores and room for owners to comment.

Unfortunately there's no way to tell how many miles people have on the car before they rate it unless it's mentioned in the text; lots of people like to rate their car when it's still new while they are excited about it.

After 10 or 20 thousand miles, people don't seem to write a longer term review unless they are excited about problems they've had. So if you have a "normal" car with some miles on, I encourage you to do a review. :-)

I like to find recent reviews on the older model years even if they do tend to be more negative; at least they have a year or two of longer term experience with the car. Even if it's not the same model, often you can gleam reliability indicators about makes. So for the B9, you may want to look at '04 Outback reviews.

hmmm, this reminds me of how JD Power surveys work - 90 day initial quality and the 3-5 year reports.

Steve, Host

cluelesspa

you need to remove the period at the end of the link for it to work

the 2 postings seem odd for the time its been on the market and the miles driven just dont jive

jeffmc

And how could ALL those systems fail within a year? Surely that second poster's vehicle would've been returned to Subaru as a lemon, right? Who would really keep a car that had had those problems? And they're trading it in on a "nice" Focus? Just doesn't ring true to me. *shrug*

photoguy2

the 2 postings seem odd for the time its been on the market and the miles driven just dont jive
Could not agree more. I've had mine since the second week they came out and now have 13,500 miles. That is about 3,400 miles a month! I have had ZERO problems with the vehicle and in fact like it more and more.

catova

I live in LA and drive a '93 Lexus GS. Great ride, but I hydroplane like crazy in the rain and have had mucho near-crashes. Now I'm moving to VA and need a new vehicle to handle the more variable weather there.

I want a safe car that rides well (no off-road plans). I am a single female 30 y.o. and I need transport to my job at a corporate campus outside of town (therefore mostly interstate driving where I'll go @ full speed - traffic's good there). This will be my only car so I want s.t. that I can use in town as well. Also s.t. where it doesn't need constant maintenance as my work hours will be long and it'll be a huge inconvenience to service it.

Recommendations, please?? My family are Toyota die-hards, so the Highlander pressure is huge. But what do you think about the other models?

thanks!
:confuse:

robsis

catova:

My wife and I drove the Pilot, the Murano, the Tribeca, the Outback, and the Highlander. They were all excellent vehicles with features that set them apart from each other. In the end, for us, we eliminated the Murano because my wife did not like the interior set-up, the Tribeca was too new, and the Outback seemed somewhat cramped (plus, the model we looked at had a turbo and I did not like the power delivery or the fact that it required premium gas.) It came down to the Pilot versus the Highlander. The Highlander won out due to it's slightly better gas mileage (V6), slightly smaller size (my wife also said it felt much smaller when driving); and, for me, the Toyota STAR safety system with the AWD was a notch above the Pilot's. I also thought the Pilot was noisier than the Highlander. My wife didn't notice a difference.

They all seemed to be great vehicles and the decision was not easy. A friend has a Murano and tested all of the same vehicles. It won out for her for various other reasons (eg: she loved the interior and driver's cockpit, as opposed to my wife's not liking it much at all).

I personally would stay away from the Tribeca just because it is a first year model. You couldn't go wrong with any of the others, however.

Also, don't forget, it appears that the Highlander will be re-styled for '07, so you may want to keep that in mind when looking at that model.

HTH and good luck in your car hunt!

cluelesspa

Hi .. I have owned a Lexus 300 GS I think it was a '98 before they made them smaller. the rear wheel drive is probably one of the problems. but never had issues with hydroplaining. maybe your tires need changed.

as far as SUVs. read your post and make me chuckle... I had a Toyota Highlander and its a reliable car but not much in the fun factor. I traded it after 3 years because I was bored with it. Got the first year model and it was fine. but its like a favorite pair of jeans, it just works and you dont notice it at all. it had a great resale.

I now drive a Tribeca. its drive more car like and can handle pretty well. a little underpowered but changes lanes nicely at highway speeds. handles much better at 70 mphs then the Highlander. I think the engine is the same boxer they have used for past 5 or more years in their outbacks.

so test drive them all. on paper I loved the Murano but got in and test drove and knew - no way I could drive it day in and day out. plus the storage area in the back is less then the highlander and the Tribeca because of the sloped rear window. I also hated the console layout of the Murano, it was clunky layout of the side mirror adjustments, ect.

happy hunting...

ateixeira

I think any one of those is a good choice, just make sure you check off stability control on the options list. And AWD.

Weather in VA is not too bad, the problem is people gather little experience driving in snow, so when we do get some, you're surrounded by idiots, it seems.

Drive defensively.

-juice

sn2

have you thought of the freestyleAWD.It has much better snow performance than an of theother vehicles and is relatively frugal with gas and is based on the volvo s80.

ateixeira

Much better snow performance?

The Haldex system is primariliy FWD, and is reactive, kicking in the rear axle only after there is slip.

Proactive and/or full-time systems are better, i.e. they distribute power before there is slippage. Haldex is also limited in terms of how much power it can send to the rear axle. The best systems don't have this limitation.

Look at Subaru's VDC, which I'll argue is superior, and I'll list several example of why:

* default power split sends torque to both axles, for better balance
* the system is engineered for full-time use, not just part-time
* 100% of power can be sent to either axle, front or rear
* VDC can proactively send power to the front axle, such as when you lift off the throttle in a turn (to prevent trailing throttle understeer)
* VDC can proactively send power to the rear axle when pulling a boat up a wet tamp, to prevent embarassing wheelspin.

That's 5 things the Haldex cannot do.

Subaru VDC: 5, Ford/Volvo Haldex: 0.

Haldex does react quickly and it is among the best of the FWD-based systems. But it's not nearly the best, not by a long shot.

-juice

samiam_68

Haldex doesn't care if your tire circumference is within 1/4". On a Subaru, if you have more than 10,000 miles on your tires and one tire gets punctured beyond repair, you usually wind up replacing all four tires.

Haldex - 5, Subaru - 0

:shades:

ateixeira

Wrong - any car with stability control will be looking at the difference in rotation of the tires to determine when there is slip.

If you put 1 new tire with more tread and keep 3 older, worn ones, the sensor will be off. The worn tire will read incorrectly, as if that tire was spinning more quickly. This might throw off the traction/stability control. The system will think that tire is slipping and apply the brakes to that wheel.

In an AWD vehicle, especially one with traction/stability control, you should make sure the tires are evenly worn. This is not specific to Subaru.

Even if you did get one sidewall puncture, you can order one new tire and have it shaved to match the rest.

Oh and I love your math. One = 5?

-juice

ateixeira

Even if I gave you that one, the score is 5 to 1, right?

Plus, think about what that really means.

If the Haldex has more tolerance for different wheel circumference, then by definition it would take longer to react. So it would do nothing at all for the first bit of slippage, then react suddenly and hope that's soon enough to save your skin.

AWD systems are designed to act quickly, not slowly. How much do you want the system to allow it to slip before it kicks in and engages the rear axle?

I can see the advertisements now:

Haldex: designed to react slowly, so you can mis-match your tire sizes and screw up your ABS and Stability Control

Doesn't that make you feel so safe? :surprise:

-juice