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Matt
That is a good question and I have wondered the same thing many times.
In or about 1985 I bought a 1978 Chevy Beauville G20 long van with 350 V8. There were about 98K on the odometer. Oil was pretty dark and it was leaking or blowing a lot of oil. I knew the engine was in trouble but everything else was nice and worked. So I bought it because I knew I was going to do some modifications to the engine for the purposes of towing a 30ft camper for our family
As it turned out, most everything inside the engine was worn out. About the only thing useable were the block, the head cores, and piston rods.
It did a lot of towing for a few years and is now basically used for trips to Home Depot, storage and anything else a large box on wheels is good for. The valve covers leak as well as the rear seal (Chevy trademark). The engine is as quiet as the day we rebuilt it and it doesn't smoke at all. The oil is still changed every 5K or once a year these days.
2003 was the last year it had to be inspected, but even then it always passed with half or less than half of the allowable numbers. This engine has about 100k on it now. I don't believe that we built the engine any better than it was when new. I sincerely believe that reasonably regular oil changes made the difference.
With todays high revving engines with their tight tolerances, I believe regular oil changes are a good idea. I do it every 3750 miles because of the extended warranties and I don't want Honda to say we neglected anything should there be a problem. However, when the warranties are over It will be every 5000 miles.
Kip
Anyone else checked their gas mileage lately?
Steve, Host
Got 30.15 miles per gallon on first long trip with about 1000 miles on the odometer; 350 mile trip with A/C on half the time; 68-70 mph with cruise control. Filled up before and after trip at the same pump.
I'm impressed! My 1997 Honda Civic only gets 35-36 mpg. The CRV is almost as good!
On relatively flat roads the Cruse control will tend to keep the engine at a constant rpm. This is Not good for break-in.
Kip
Have you heard of anyone else getting 30+ on a trip? I drive easy, but 70 mph with A/C on half the time isn't 'easy' for gas mileage.
That was with the cruise set at 2500 RPM which was about 67 mph. We ran the air about 1/3 the time. North Georgia X-ways seem to be either up hill or down. Very little flat ground.
If we had used the AC more, the mileage would have probably suffered more. The 4 cylinder pulling the CR-V's weight and shape is starting to "PUFF" when A/C and hills are added to the mix along with 67 mph wind resistance.IT most always shifted back to 3rd on the longer hills.
We filled up that morning and again that evening when we got back, at the same pump. Round trip about 200 miles.
This is not really a good measurement. The gas tank may have been cooler on the first fill up. Therefore it would have held a little more gas when compared to the second fill up due to the tank being warmer from outside air temperature plus heat from the road. The warmer tank could have caused the gas to expand some which would have "filled" the tank with a little less actual gas on a quick fill up. Or, I may have CRAMMED a little more into the tank on either of the fill ups.
On a 200 mile trip, 6.6 gal would be 30.3 mpg. Adding or subtracting just .4 gallons could yield 2 MPG more or less.
If you want to "Record" the best mileage, fill the tank with the front of the car lower than the rear. Even better if the right front is even lower than the left. That will set the tank at an angle to let most of the air bubble out the filler tube. Do it on a cool morning so the gas is contacted more than it will be later.
Then on the "Check the Mileage" fill up have the front end higher than the rear with the left rear at the lowest point. This will allow the air pocket to be far from the filler tube and hard to get rid of. Therefore the tank simply will not take as much gas. Do this during the hot time of the day, when the air and road have heated the tank, and the gas is already expanded slightly.
Those two conditions will yield a better average than usual. However the needle will fall off the "Full" mark quicker and the next fill up on flat ground will be disappointing!
Kip
Thermal expansion of the tank isn't really an issue. What you should be focussing on is the volume of gasoline you put into the tank and you get that information from the display at the pump. Of course, the gasoline itself is subject to thermal expansion but most gas station tanks are underground meaning there will be very little variation at a given station.
tidester, host
I took a trip in NM at high altitudes (5000 ft +). About 2/3 of the trip was at 60 MPH, the remainder was on the interstate at 80 MPH (getting back from Colorado, don't ask how I managed to get that far north
My normal highway MPG was between 25 and 27 @ 77 MPH. I got around 20-21 in town. But the 2003 had only the 4 speed transmission.
Please go back an re-read my post. The tank being heated will cause the fuel inside the tank to expand.
A cool tank with cool fuel already inside it will accept more cool fuel than a hot tank with hot gas already inside it.
If you heated the fuel tank itself enough to cause it to expand enough to make any difference in it's internal dimensions (volume), it would probably be on its way to an explosion.
What you should be focussing on is the volume of gasoline you put into the tank and you get that information from the display at the pump.
The volume will vary on temperature of the car's fuel tank, and placement of the car.
Another factor is how the tank was filled.
Some pumps are painfully slow while others move along at a good pace. Some folks prefer to fill until the 1st click off. When doing this, be sure you are at the same pump facing same direction with the same pump trigger setting.
Ever notice how a fast nozzle will click off, then running it very slow will allow some more to be added? Sometimes as much as a gallon can still be crammed in. Fast moving liquids tend to pick up air which causes expansion. Then the air escapes and the liquid settles to a lower level.
You can test this at your kitchen sink with water. Fill a plastic milk jug at full tap volume. As soon as the water and air mixture get to the top, (Which would shut off a gas nozzle) shut off the water. Watch the level settle. If no more water is added, the jug is not full.
Now do the same thing with the water running much slower as the level nears the top. It may fill to a point that there is very little or no settling.
Kip
That's a matter of heat capacity. Since the mass (weight) of the gasoline you're putting into the tank is greater than the tank itself the final temperature of the tank + gas will be closer to that of the gasoline. Of course, both will eventually reach ambient temperature - long after you have filled your tank.
Again, you should be focussing on your total miles and volume of gasoline pumped.
Take a look at the article Steve cited - as soon as we get the link straight!
tidester, host
Try this one:
Question of the Day - Is Cold Gas More Dense? Part 2
Steve, Host
tidester, host
That depends on how much is added during the fill up.
Driving on blacktop roads the gas and tank can reach very high temperatures. But let's just say the gas temp is 100. The tank holds 20 gallons and it takes ten to fill it with gas that is say 65 degrees from an underground tank.
During that fill up the average in the tank will be 80+ degrees. Park the car and the next morning you will be able to add more gas.
I believe that everyone that reads these post can remember a time or two when they filled the tank late the day before and the next morning it was not quite on the full mark or fell off very quickly.
It is all the little things that add up to make a difference from tank to tank.
For instance, one afternoon recently I stopped and filled the tank on my Pilot. It took about a half a tank. (10 gallons) The temperature was near 90 degrees and I had been running on blacktop roads. No doubt that the tank and the gas in it were hot. I put about 20 miles on that tank before arriving home. That night my wife decided that we were going to take a 300 mile trip the next morning.
We left about 7am. The temperature was in the middle 60s. About a mile from my house is a service station. I wanted a full tank for the trip to check mileage. It took 2.1 gallons to top it off. So for that 2.1 gallon tank I had gotten 9.5 miles per gallon on 20 miles of back roads driving 55 mph with no traffic.
So what happened? On the day before, It was hot and I most likely sat in the car while it filled at high pump speed. When it clicked I removed the hose. Chances are good that I could have squeezed another gallon into the tank just from the gas settling. The next morning the tank and the gas in it was 25-30 degrees cooler than the day before, prior to adding fuel. I was also at a different pump at a different station.
Under ideal and very similar conditions, mileage figures will vary from tank to tank. How it is filled, when it is filled, and angle of the car can and will make a difference from tank to tank.
Over the long haul and several tanks of gas, things will average out to a true overall MPG. However, for tank to tank readings, care must be taken.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Kip
Good! I'm sure we glazed over a more than a few eyeballs with our talk about thermal expansion coefficients.
Carry on!
tidester, host
It sure wore me out! :sick:
Have a blessed day !
Kip
'Hot' fuel costs billions (Star-Telegram)
The CRV was my first choice and after probably 20 different cars we settled on it because of the firm seat for my wife. It was only after we'd driven it on the road for the extended period that the pain became obvious.
What's the collective wisdom? Anyone else found that driving a CRV is jolting and uncomfortable? Is there anything that we can do to lessen the pain? Is there anything that Honda can do?
In regard to the other cars we test-drove, the RAV-4 was even more rough, but a 2006 Forester was smooth as silk! Also, an Accord was pretty stiff in suspension. Are all Hondas stiff and rough riding? Is the CRV stiff because it's on a truck frame and the Forester smooth because it's on a car frame?
Our brand new, 1200 mile CRV may have to go if we can't make some changes. We may go back to the 2006 Forester, if we can find one, though I still like the Honda better...
I compare it to driving a pickup truck. You're higher and the car body reactions to the road terrain translate (or magnify) into body movements.
That said, my typically poor back and neck condition doesn't seem to suffer when driving the CR-V. Last summer, I drove cross-country, averaging 700 miles a day. No unusual pains or degree of pain.
My experience is that I get some neck and back soreness sitting down in the typical low sedan (a Civic, for example) and then climbing back out. Not so with the CR-V.
Wish I had the magic solution for you...perhaps time and seat / seat back adjustments may make you more comfortable. And you may acclimate to the higher and rockier ride. Good luck!
The CR-V is built on the Civic Chassis.
As stated by another poster, the seating position is reasonably high when compared to a sedan. The higher seating position and taller suspension will result in more MOVEMENT to the occupants.
I have a '03 Pilot and my wife traded her Maxima for an '03 CR-V when she realized how much better her back felt after riding in a more upright position in the Pilot vs the more lay down position in the Maxima. Another plus is the ease of getting in and out of the CR-V vs a lower sedan.
The CR-V is more fun to scoot around town than the larger and more cumbersome Pilot. The Pilot seats feel more comfy and roomy, and the ride is smoother. Therefore we take it when we go on road trips.
After nearly 3 years of owning the Auto 4WD CR-V we took it on a 200 mile trip. I was not looking particularly forward to the rougher ride and "HARD" seats for that period of time.
Long story short...After just a few minutes on the road, I kind of forgot that we were in the CR-V. When we arrived at the destination and again at home, we both felt as well as though we had been in the Pilot.
FWIW: I'm under doctors care for problems with both my neck and lower spine. (Too many hours and crashes on cross country motorcycle races when younger.)
I learned several years ago the benefits of sitting more upright. Many people have the seat back tilted too far back for the "chair" type seating, such as in the CR-V. That will cause strain in the neck and shoulders.
I am 65 and my wife is 60.
Kip
Couple thoughts for you:
Are you having trouble entering and exiting your CR-V because it is higher than the car you might be used to? My missus has a tender back and will occasionally attibute a tweak to climbing aboard, but has no problem once we're underway. The CR-V has no A-pillar grab handle, but does have a handle above the door and the leading edge of the door can be used for a boost.
How's your driving position? You should sit upright. You should be able to reach the firewall with your left foot flat on it. You should be high enough to easily see over the steering wheel. You should be far enough from the wheel that your elbows are slightly bent with hands at the 9 and 3 o'clock position. Driver and passenger can get additional lumbar support for cheap with rolled up bath towels.
My guess, based on your description of your driving pattern and that driver and passenger have complaints, is that the problem may be related to getting in and out of a vehicle with a fairly high stance.
The CR-V is nimble, and my missus sometimes objects that I whip it around. Could that contribute?
Do you have running boards? I notice they make people step over them which could stress tender joints.
Hope you find help for your problem. If you continue to have problem go try a Saab 9-5 on for size. In addition to my CR-V, my missus and I also own 9-5s. IMHO,their seats are ergonomic heaven, perhaps even therapeutic with the warmers turned up to roast. Prices on two or three year old models coming in off lease are very good. Good luck.
The CRV was my first choice and after probably 20 different cars we settled on it because of the firm seat for my wife. It was only after we'd driven it on the road for the extended period that the pain became obvious.
What's the collective wisdom? Anyone else found that driving a CRV is jolting and uncomfortable? Is there anything that we can do to lessen the pain? Is there anything that Honda can do?
In regard to the other cars we test-drove, the RAV-4 was even more rough, but a 2006 Forester was smooth as silk! Also, an Accord was pretty stiff in suspension. Are all Hondas stiff and rough riding? Is the CRV stiff because it's on a truck frame and the Forester smooth because it's on a car frame?
Our brand new, 1200 mile CRV may have to go if we can't make some changes. We may go back to the 2006 Forester, if we can find one, though I still like the Honda better...
Some people like SPORT HANDLING and some like boat like rides. That is why there are BMW's and Hondas (sport handling) and Buicks (boat like ride)
You can try letting more air out of the tires, or checking the tire pressure. CR-V's come off the boat with tires inflated to almost 40 psi to prevent flat spotting, and the dealer is supposed to adjust the pressure to whatever the OWNER's MANUAL says. Short of that, there is nothing you can do. Sport handling is all about the keeping the tires in constant contact with the pavement, not boat like cushy ride.
CR-V is car based as well, not truck based. Look under it, there is no frame, it is just a Civic on steroids.
I take your point, but aren't some of the big trucks now going unibody?
However, I don't think it is "Civic on steriods". Honda started with a Civic platform, but ended up with something very different. My wife has a 2002 Civic. It has a much longer turning radius, for example.
Just bought this car brand new, I haven't finished a tank yet, almost to half and only 117 miles on it. If this is what I can expect to get I'm going to be sick. I know I need to try a few tank fulls, but I haven't talked to anyone around here who has a CRV that is getting more than 18 mpg in the city. That's about all the driving I do. I can't believe they can advertise 18-26, and all the reviews in consumer guides give this car a great rating and supposedly one of the best mpg for small SUV's. This is my first SUV, it's fun to drive but I can't afford 16-18mpg for a whole year, that's almost half what I was getting with my last car 29mpg/city 96 saturn with 120k. I was figuring to lose maybe 5 or 6 mpg but this is ridiculous. If this car can't get 20mpg I won't keep it more than a year. Can anyone give me any hope?
My wife gets 21 around town and I get 23 with the '03 CR-V 4WD, 4 speed automatic. She gets 27 in the road and I get 31. The difference is about driving style.
If your first tank is the one you got from the dealer, it may not have been full.
If this car can't get 20mpg I won't keep it more than a year. Can anyone give me any hope?
You need to go back to the beginning of this thread if you need inspiration.
Kip
You need to learn how to work with the car to maximize MPG. I got 18 MPG in my 2003 CR-V, then when I implemented some basic techniques, I got between 20 and 22 MPG in the city. My highway MPG ranged from 26 @ 80 MPH to 31 @ 55 MPH.
If you search through this tread, I and others have posted ways of improving driving habits.
Just put it in Drive and forget it...
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A good way to build confidence in your car will be to curl up in a comfortable chair with your owner's manual. Lot of great stuff in there, including an explanation of when to use D3 (no, not highway, unless, possibly, you're in a blizzard). Good luck.
On a sidenote, I sold my 1990 F150 and bought a 2001 Chevy Prizm - talk about awesome gas mileage! For those of you not familiar with the Prizm, it's just a rebadged Corolla. I'm getting right around 40 mpg on the hwy in my little 5 speed! Right now I'm feeling pretty good having two four cylinders in the family garage, even with gas prices coming down.
:shades:
Mark
Now 4 yrs later, 19-21 city and 22 highway (on a good day).
My honda mechanic told me that's it being caused by two things. The ethanol in the gas (10% drop in fuel economy) and the A/C compressor problem that's going on with the CRv's.
Guess it's just a matter of time before my compressor blows.
Driving style, road conditions, Hway or City, sure makes a big diff. I traded in my 1999 CRV EX AWD, and I think I was getting 20MPG overall on my old CRV. I was disappointed because I was hoping for much better mileage. But I do like the drive and everything that comes with it, so stuck it out with a CRV.
The real time MPG indicator in the new CRV really helps a lot in understanding how economical you are with with your driving. First two fill ups, I was only getting an average of 20 MPG again. But since I'm able to see real time what my MPG is, I understand why this is so, and wasn't really in panic mode at that point
In fact I was expecting this since I was doing a lot of idling (staying in car while wife goes shopping w A/C on),
a lot of ogling at the new car, admiring the interior etc
We were at an outlet mall during my last fill up (Ontario Mills), and was going to drive back to Orange County. Traffic was light, and I decided to test how good mileage I can really get if with relaxed driving. By this, I don't mean to go slow but as steady as possible and less gas pumping. So we were actually doing 80 at stretches, and not going slow, just doing it, I guess, the right way.
I was very impressed with the mileage I was getting. In fact close to OC, and just before the uphill driving, I was actually averaging 35MPG! After the uphill drive, mall trip and city drive, I got home and our final MPG was 29.2. Not bad, in fact, so much better than I expected.
So I'm impressed, and think that the advertised mileage for the new crv (23City/30Hway) is just right. I just need to learn the good habits, and consider the conditions under which I'm driving b4 I start complaining again of how low mpg I'm going to get in future drives
I wish more people would come to mileage boards saying the exact same thing (...I need to consider the conditions I'm driving...). Some people will complain that they only get 13 MPG in a car supposed to get 23 MPG...they fail to realize that living in MANHATTAN, NY isn't your average "city" commute! LOL
More power to ya with your new CR-V. I have an Accord I-4 2006 model (same engine as CR-V)...your mileage will improve another MPG or 2 as it breaks in... passing the 10,000 mile mark I saw a marked increase from averaging 29 MPG to averaging around 31 MPG (my car stickers at EPA 24/34)- this is mixed driving, so I'm MORE than pleased!
....MNF
Not too bad for a brand new SUV.
Same is said about the graphics on Hybrids. It is dubious to think they will remove it, before the interior "refresh" in five years.
A small strip of black electrical tape should do the trick.
Agreed. It's more annoying than useful.