Actually there are a host of general things. I can get into that if you care to discuss it. I am assuming you have read the technical, shop, and owners manual data.
To stay on topic, since the topic is mpg,
1. I would keep to changing the oil close to what the OLM or the oem recommended OCI's.
2. After the first OCI (10,000 miles), I switched to (synthetic ) Mobil One 0w20, 5w20. The gain in mpg was immediate.
3. While I would NOT recommend violating your warranty, I started to run 20,000 miles OCI's, after the very meager 3 years/36,000 miles warranty period. .
4. Another is to accelerate briskly - to slightly aggressively (75% to 85% of redline) to your optimum speed/s. We do that by feeling, as we do not have a tachometer. If you have one, all the more easier.
4b. All these low speed recommendations are really for stuff like tires, brake rotors, pads, suspension ,steering bearings , etc to groove into each other. Tires really take 200-500 miles to groove in correctly.
5. I would put the high speed PSI recommendation ( in my case 35 psi), in the tires.
6. The best is to run your vehicle at least one hour continuously.
I perceive there are a lot of folks that try very hard to get good mpg and wind up actually putting a lot more wear stress on the machine than they should. They also get much lower mpg!? I have 67,000 miles, and in a 27 mile one way commute we get 38-42 mpg. We really do not make an fuel savings efforts. Looking at a pretty big population survey we understand that app 95-98% of Civic owners do NOT get this mileage. (msg #1416) Interstate travel @ 75-80 mph yields app 40-42 mpg. . All the best!
I thought I would chime in to say hello again, as after the first few weeks of owning the car, my mpg seems to have topped out. I have an '08 Civic EX 2-dr 5-speed manual and do about 75-80% highway. I have been using the ScanGaugeII to help learn how to drive the car for better mileage and practice one or two basic hypermiling principles. The biggest realization I had is that I shifted waaayyyyy to late. I try to use a higher gear when at constant speed, especially if the road is flat.
At this time it looks like my mileage has topped out:
I would say 40+ is not bad. However I was able to get 44mpg on a highway run years ago---out of my 1981 Datsun 310GX . I'm betting the Civic can top that if doing mostly long flat stretches. I have seen 49mpg in a posting out here.
Just bought the car two weeks ago and put 900 total miles on a recent trip (2 adults/2 kids/luggage). The car now has 1200 miles on the odometer so it's still just breaking in I believe. Hwy travel (varying speeds predominantly within 65-80 to allow for break-in) yielded 41.8mpg, while short trips around town yielded only 25.4mpg; total average across the 900 miles was 38.4mpg.
Thanks for the information. After doing a Google search the sites recommend stomping the gas to full acceralation and then slow to normal speeds. they say this will make the pistons seal better for longer life.Recommended to do this every 10 miles.Sounds to me it is going to waste a lot of gas which I am trying to avoid. What do you think about this method?
Yes, In addition, let it DEcelerate aggressively also. So for example, (counterintuitively for most folks), when I followed this procedure, I noticed no real mpg increase or decrease.
Funny thing, I grew up in the Detroit area back in the 1960s, and several of my friends' fathers were engineers for "The Autos". At the time I heard from several of the engineers that their favorite way of breaking in a new car was to select second gear and drive the first five hundred miles or so without ever hitting third. Go figure. :confuse:
Accidently left it in 2nd gear and the engine started whining like a new born-I could not imagine driving it in this gear for 500 miles- but if this will help mpg and longevity maybe I will try 1st gear and neutral on hills. Thanks for the tips.
Please understand that I'm not even remotely suggesting folks follow this form of a break-in regimen. That and second gear on one of the old TorqueFlite or TurboHydromatic transmissions was a very different thing compared to a modern five or six speed transmission.
I was trying this method out about 3am this morning when I thought it was safe, I floored my civic and got up to 100 mph, then decided to let off of it. When the state tropper asked why I was driving so fast I told him I was beaking in the engine. His reply was that he understood and let me go. I will continue to try to break the 100mph barrier only this time I will choose an airport runway.
You can get the same effects @ lower speeds by using one less gear than what you have been using. Another state trooper might not be as understanding or see the logic in your break in speeds.
The 2004 Civic just got another tank full (39.4 mpg- ordinary commute). It is on the road right now from the San Francisco bay area to Santa Barbara, CA and return. Will post the highway miles upon return.
As it applies to break in procedures I think this is why break in procedures can sound a bit at odds/confusing. That is why I do NOT try to get XYZ mpg and just do the break in procedures and report what I get (during the break in procedures). So looking back on the Civic break in procedures, a firm to aggressive break in actually did not effect the mpg. While time will tell, for my 2 cents, this firm to aggressive break in is actually better for the car in the long run. (my goal is a min of 450,000 miles.)
While what you did was logical to me, it probably needs to be said the first 500 miles needs to be down at between 40-55 mph to let the tires groove in correctly. I can fast forward to 66,000 miles and the oem tires look to need replacing at 70-80k. This does NOT mean you can not rev the engine as it should be revved firmly to slightly aggressively (75% of redline to redline). You just need to use 1 to 2 or even three less gears. So for example you can be doing pretty close to 75% of red line but still be going under 55 mph.
The next thing one wants to do correctly is to bed in the brake pads and rotors. This is really important for the longer term. Unless one is a brake rider, (some folks are either advertently or inadvertently) there is really no reason why folks should not be able to get 100k miles out of the rears. Finally, steering, handling and braking input should be gentle up to app 5,000 miles. After than you are cleared for take off! :shades: I realize most pros look at 1k as the normal length of break in period.
Last week I rented a '08 Civic with an automatic in Missoula, MT. Don't know if it was an EX or what, it probably was. I drove the car like a old Mercedes 240D auto - very slow starts, letting off the gas to time for lights and to roll to a stop, and never above 55 mph. Driving was in down-town (not congested) in leafy green city residential areas, some suburbs, some interstate (55 mph max), a few small valley grades and up and down a small mountain road, with about 1500' elevation gain/loss - pretty much just all-around use. 165 miles/3.45 gallons = 47.8 mpg. This is considerably better than EPA values, but seems to be obtainable. Sure, I was very conservative, but not that anyone blew their horn at me (in Missoula they are very polite). People did pass, but it wasn't a big deal. Impressive economy and a very nice car.
Just purchased a used 2007 Civic LX from Hertz. It had 19000 miles on it. First and second tanks of gas netted 28.5 and 27.5 mpg. On the third tank, I decided to baby the car: accelerate slowly, turn the air conditioner off about a mile from my destination and turn it on about a mile after starting up, maintaining the same rpms (rather than speed) going over mild hills. I'd do these when I wasn't in heavy traffic; in traffic, I'd try to keep up with traffic.
I have a new Civic LX automatic. First tank was 36.3, then 36.7, then 38.4, then 37.89, then 31mpg...HOWEVER I WAS TOWING A 500 pound ATV when I got 31mpg!!!! I was going between 58-65mph.I live in PA in the endless mountain range. I would say 90% highway and 10% city
Second 3/4 tank - 37.0 MPG with 85% highway and 15% city. This time I had 2 adults, 2 teens and 1 child in the Civic for a 250 mile trip. It was a very comfortable ride.
I've seen a lot of press coverage lately on hypermiling, with links to CleanMPG and other sites. Some of the techniques are universal, whether you drive a hybrid or conventional car. Techniques like slow acceleration, reducing air conditioning use, parking nose-forward, are easy techniques anyone can learn to use.
Other techniques seem appropriate for hybrid users only.
Are there sources of information on milder hypermiling techniques, things that folks like me, with a Civic sedan with automatic transmission, can practice?
Personally, my new used 2007 Civic LX has beaten my expectation with 32 mpg in 90% city driving. I've also learned that I don't have to drive inside a freezer--driving without the AC on in the morning is perfectly fine. I'm beginning to prefer not having the AC on all of the time. And I'm finding lots of road time when I don't have someone behind me so that I can accelerate slowly and coast until a red light turns green. Easy stuff. It's also enjoyable, being frugal.
my last tank ful was 39.8 mpg with 90% highway and 10% city I baby the civic and the AC was off for 75% of the time...mph varied between 58-64 and it was for only 39 mile stretches at a time...not one big highway trip
I'm in STRONG favor of raising the speed limit on divided highways. One two-way roads they can leave it slow like it is. Can you imagine driving across the country and having to drive 55? Everyone would fall asleep! How about, instead of creating even MORE laws, we just let nature take its course and sit back and watch as everyone is buying honda civics and prius's. I made a long trip (2400) miles and averaged 38 MPG. My 08 LX AT had 3 occupants, and luggage and used the AC the whole way. Ridiculously slow speed limits aren't the answer my friend as some people drive long distances. With an economical (greener) vehicle like mine, there is absolutely no reason why I shouldn't be able to legally drive 80 and not really hurt the environment or my MPG much more than if I drive at 55. Why should a guy driving a nimble little honda be held to same speed limit as a semi?
Where do you drive that the speed limit is 55? I mean, geez, I haven't seen 55 posted on a rural interstate for maybe 20 years now.
FWIW, I got my license just before Tricky Dick lowered the speed limit to 55 back in the 1970s, and then shortly after that I drove from Detroit to San Diego, and I've gotta tell ya, 55 is painful for long haul driving. That said, even before the 55 mph mandate was aboloished by Ronnie in the 1980s, speeds were inching their way up to the point where most traffic was moving at at least 70.
Have 9200 miles on a 2008 Civic sedan, bought new, manual transmission. Commute (60-40 city/hwy split) getting 34-36 mpg. Highway alone, with AC, averaging 72-75 mph, got 41 mpg. Worst tank: 32, idling on the I-5 near Pdx too long. Best tank:41 mpg. Love this car, except for the gas cap and no indicator for low wash fluid.
I have a 1995 5-speed Honda Civic. It's always gotten pretty fantastic gas mileage--averaging 32 to 35 in town and 40 to 45 on the highway. However, on a recent trip from Portland, Maine, to Bangor, Maine, I shot those numbers down--hard.
I maintained a speed of about 80 to 85 MPH the entire way, a 136-mile journey. I used no heat or A/C, no fan at all. Just windows down and radio going, and I left on a full tank. When I reached Bangor, I filled my car back up--with only 2.183 gallons. If you calculate that out, 136/2.183 is 62.3 MPG. SIXTY-TWO MILES PER GALLON. I was and still remain completely astonished. I'm in love with this car. It's a blessing.
Sorry to say, your results are completely invalid. Why? Different fuel pumps click off at different points, in fact, even the same pump can click off at different points depending upon the angle of the nozzle in the filler neck. So? Believe it or not, there can be well over a gallon difference between that "click" point.
The only way to calculate your mileage with any accuracy is if you do it over a period of tanks, and by that I mean at least four of five.
Best Regards, Shipo
P.S. I'm not saying that your car isn't getting good mileage, I'm just saying that I find it highly unlikely that you're getting even as much as 40 mpg at "80 to 85 MPH".
Indeed if you figure in that gal, he does get a 42.73 mpg, (136 miles/3.183 gal) which happens to be within his reported normal highway range. :shades:
Well, yes and no. Normally I subscribe to the" when the vehicle is on fumes" practice. However perhaps he really wanted to get a snapshot given a certain leg of his trip. Obviously you probably need to factor in the error probablity.
I understand; I've done that before on a trip to the beach, filled up before the trip along the interstate, and then again at the exit. It was something like 6.1 gallons on 245 miles. I was SO TICKLED to get 40 mpg in my 2.4L Accord 5AT. I of course realize that this was only about 1/3 of the tank's capacity, and at only 6 gallons my margin for error would still be pretty sizeable.
I would also suspect the error is also sizeable in the Prius "tank". While I have read this is passing, the Prius in not like say the Honda Civic that has a tank capacity of 13.2 gals (yes you can fill more or less even from this) as it has a "bladder type" fuel "tank". So indeed mpg from Prius's are by structure inconsistent from those that do the xxx.x miles/yy.yy=zz.zz mpg.
I'm thinking about getting a Civic Hybrid, and I'm fascinated by the fact you guys are getting mileage that makes it seem as thought he Hybrid isn't worth the premium.
Makes me wonder what would happen if Honda simply added a mild hybrid to the Civic.
My go on hybrids is this.....if you do most of your driving around town, and you drive quite a bit, the hybrid might be worth the premium. Those of us that do a lot of long-distance highway driving, it appears they hybrids require hyper-miling to ever really have a major advantage all things considered.
>"I'm thinking about getting a Civic Hybrid, and I'm fascinated by the fact you guys are getting mileage that makes it seem as thought he Hybrid isn't worth the premium."
I tend to agree with your thoughts. And with sebring95.
Keeping in mind, there are those that are able and willing to go "Green" at any cost. I admire them. I can't. So looking strictly at the $$$:
According to the reported real world mileage on, http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ , the Civic hybrids are besting the standard Civics by about 35%. Civic averages for the AT are 31-32 mpg, while the hybrids are 42-44 mpg averages. Some folks are bettering those averages by quite a bit, and some are not. So "averages" are what we must consider.
Using 43 mpg and 32 mpg respectively for the comparisons, for a 15K mile annual driver, with gas at $4, the Hybred would consume $1395 in fuel, while the non Hybred would consume $1875, . Therefore the Hybred would be about $500 less expensive to drive, considering fuel only. At $5 per gallon, the Hybred would burn $1745 in fuel and the non Hybred would cost $2343. About a $600 dollar savings in favor of the Hybred. Over a 5 year period the Hybred would save $2500-$3000 in fuel cost, depending on the per gallon cost of fuel.
If the Hybred "Premium" is in the $3K range, it would take the average driver (12K-15K miles yearly) at $5 fuel, 5-6 1/2 years and 75K miles for the break even point. Then it may be time for battery replacement. I have heard , but not verified, the replacement would be $2K to $4K. (seems high) If that is the case, the Hybred driver is back in the hole again.
Considerations:
How much is the premium for the Hybred in a comparably equipped car.
How much more or less is the cost for an extended warranty? Is it more for the Hybred because of the extra hardware involved with the batteries, electric motor, and so forth.
How long do the batteries last, what type of warranty do they carry, and what is the replacement cost?
Consider that we want to sell or trade a 5 year old Hybred with 75K miles on the clock. Are the batteries getting close to the replacement stage? How will that affect the trade-in or resale value?
Still considering 5 years away, will those Hybrids have "Home" plug in capabilities and "Super" batteries that would render the car we bought today somewhat obsolete?
Before purchasing a Hybred I would research the above.
In 2004, I considered the following 7 vehicles: 2004 Prius/Corolla/Civic.Civic hybrid/TDI-auto, 2005 Corolla/Civic. Upshot: I bought the Civic.
(If Civic had a turbo diesel model I would have bought the turbo diesel model)
The Civic Hybrid while 5,000 cheaper than the Prius, was 7,436 more expensive than the Civic. 12,436/7436 EVEN at today's RUG prices (4.39 corner store) buys 2833/1694 gals of fuel. The Civic gets 38-42 mpg in daily commute, and even at the minimum that gets 107,654/ 64,366 commute miles. So while I would recommend doing full spread sheets to include ALL those vehicles under consideration, you see the results of a quick and dirty result on just the acquisition costs difference. Right now a very unexpected spin off is the vehicle with 70,000 miles can be sold for app the same price it was bought new.
You all probably know this, but looking forward, you have to factor in per year inflation year over year. So for example, 04 Civic can be expected to cost (3-5% per year x 4 quick and dirty)= 12-20% more for the MY 2008.
Indeed a look back snapshot puts it @ 3.98% per year (15.89% total/4 years)
I live on an island. top speed is 45mph. that is the speed i go ,,, yes i could go 65 and probably not get a ticket but it is a frame of mind. I know i am generalizing but why do most of you go 65 to 75mph. why not go slower like 45 max 55. is it because you have to race home and sit on the couch to watch pathetic tv programming. my first tank got 34 mpg, probably 50/50 town/hwy. in the future it will be 80 percent hwy 20 percent in town. looking to get low 40ish mpg.
I think when the furthest you can drive is 45 minutes in either direction....no reason to be in too big of a rush;)
45mph on the highway here would get you killed. In most cars, I don't see a major economy hit until crossing beyond 70mph. My TDI was more like 90mph before mpg dropped enough to really measure. My '07 Civic seemed to do fine as long as it was kept below 75.
just picked up a new civic a couple of weeks ago and i've been driving it a bunch. so far the mileage has been pretty good. i drive normal speeds in the city and on the highway i tend to drive around 80ish. it's also been hot here lately so i've been using the air conditioning quite a bit.
Comments
To stay on topic, since the topic is mpg,
1. I would keep to changing the oil close to what the OLM or the oem recommended OCI's.
2. After the first OCI (10,000 miles), I switched to (synthetic ) Mobil One 0w20, 5w20. The gain in mpg was immediate.
3. While I would NOT recommend violating your warranty, I started to run 20,000 miles OCI's, after the very meager 3 years/36,000 miles warranty period. .
4. Another is to accelerate briskly - to slightly aggressively (75% to 85% of redline) to your optimum speed/s. We do that by feeling, as we do not have a tachometer. If you have one, all the more easier.
4b. All these low speed recommendations are really for stuff like tires, brake rotors, pads, suspension ,steering bearings , etc to groove into each other. Tires really take 200-500 miles to groove in correctly.
5. I would put the high speed PSI recommendation ( in my case 35 psi), in the tires.
6. The best is to run your vehicle at least one hour continuously.
I perceive there are a lot of folks that try very hard to get good mpg and wind up actually putting a lot more wear stress on the machine than they should. They also get much lower mpg!? I have 67,000 miles, and in a 27 mile one way commute we get 38-42 mpg. We really do not make an fuel savings efforts. Looking at a pretty big population survey we understand that app 95-98% of Civic owners do NOT get this mileage. (msg #1416) Interstate travel @ 75-80 mph yields app 40-42 mpg. . All the best!
At this time it looks like my mileage has topped out:
1st fill-up: 35.68mpg
2nd fill-up: 36.85mpg
3rd fill-up: 38.58mpg
4th fill-up: 38.70mpg
5th fill-up: 39.71mpg
6th fill-up: 41.96mpg
7th fill-up: 40.8mpg
I would say 40+ is not bad. However I was able to get 44mpg on a highway run years ago---out of my 1981 Datsun 310GX
...kl...
Best Regards,
Shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
You can get the same effects @ lower speeds by using one less gear than what you have been using. Another state trooper might not be as understanding or see the logic in your break in speeds.
While what you did was logical to me, it probably needs to be said the first 500 miles needs to be down at between 40-55 mph to let the tires groove in correctly. I can fast forward to 66,000 miles and the oem tires look to need replacing at 70-80k. This does NOT mean you can not rev the engine as it should be revved firmly to slightly aggressively (75% of redline to redline). You just need to use 1 to 2 or even three less gears. So for example you can be doing pretty close to 75% of red line but still be going under 55 mph.
The next thing one wants to do correctly is to bed in the brake pads and rotors. This is really important for the longer term. Unless one is a brake rider, (some folks are either advertently or inadvertently) there is really no reason why folks should not be able to get 100k miles out of the rears. Finally, steering, handling and braking input should be gentle up to app 5,000 miles. After than you are cleared for take off! :shades: I realize most pros look at 1k as the normal length of break in period.
We were loaded down and using the ac,cruise control through the mountains. Our speed averaged 60-75.
41.8 mpg!!!
The result was 31.5 mpg.
All of this driving was 90% city, 10% freeway.
First tank was 36.3, then 36.7, then 38.4, then 37.89, then 31mpg...HOWEVER I WAS TOWING A 500 pound ATV when I got 31mpg!!!! I was going between 58-65mph.I live in PA in the endless mountain range. I would say 90% highway and 10% city
Other techniques seem appropriate for hybrid users only.
Are there sources of information on milder hypermiling techniques, things that folks like me, with a Civic sedan with automatic transmission, can practice?
Personally, my new used 2007 Civic LX has beaten my expectation with 32 mpg in 90% city driving. I've also learned that I don't have to drive inside a freezer--driving without the AC on in the morning is perfectly fine. I'm beginning to prefer not having the AC on all of the time. And I'm finding lots of road time when I don't have someone behind me so that I can accelerate slowly and coast until a red light turns green. Easy stuff. It's also enjoyable, being frugal.
I baby the civic and the AC was off for 75% of the time...mph varied between 58-64 and it was for only 39 mile stretches at a time...not one big highway trip
FWIW, I got my license just before Tricky Dick lowered the speed limit to 55 back in the 1970s, and then shortly after that I drove from Detroit to San Diego, and I've gotta tell ya, 55 is painful for long haul driving. That said, even before the 55 mph mandate was aboloished by Ronnie in the 1980s, speeds were inching their way up to the point where most traffic was moving at at least 70.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I maintained a speed of about 80 to 85 MPH the entire way, a 136-mile journey. I used no heat or A/C, no fan at all. Just windows down and radio going, and I left on a full tank. When I reached Bangor, I filled my car back up--with only 2.183 gallons. If you calculate that out, 136/2.183 is 62.3 MPG. SIXTY-TWO MILES PER GALLON. I was and still remain completely astonished. I'm in love with this car. It's a blessing.
The only way to calculate your mileage with any accuracy is if you do it over a period of tanks, and by that I mean at least four of five.
Best Regards,
Shipo
P.S.
I'm not saying that your car isn't getting good mileage, I'm just saying that I find it highly unlikely that you're getting even as much as 40 mpg at "80 to 85 MPH".
Makes me wonder what would happen if Honda simply added a mild hybrid to the Civic.
Any thoughts? Is the Hybrid worth the premium?
I tend to agree with your thoughts. And with sebring95.
Keeping in mind, there are those that are able and willing to go "Green" at any cost. I admire them. I can't. So looking strictly at the $$$:
According to the reported real world mileage on, http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ , the Civic hybrids are besting the standard Civics by about 35%. Civic averages for the AT are 31-32 mpg, while the hybrids are 42-44 mpg averages. Some folks are bettering those averages by quite a bit, and some are not. So "averages" are what we must consider.
Using 43 mpg and 32 mpg respectively for the comparisons, for a 15K mile annual driver, with gas at $4, the Hybred would consume $1395 in fuel, while the non Hybred would consume $1875, . Therefore the Hybred would be about $500 less expensive to drive, considering fuel only. At $5 per gallon, the Hybred would burn $1745 in fuel and the non Hybred would cost $2343. About a $600 dollar savings in favor of the Hybred. Over a 5 year period the Hybred would save $2500-$3000 in fuel cost, depending on the per gallon cost of fuel.
If the Hybred "Premium" is in the $3K range, it would take the average driver (12K-15K miles yearly) at $5 fuel, 5-6 1/2 years and 75K miles for the break even point. Then it may be time for battery replacement. I have heard , but not verified, the replacement would be $2K to $4K. (seems high) If that is the case, the Hybred driver is back in the hole again.
Considerations:
How much is the premium for the Hybred in a comparably equipped car.
How much more or less is the cost for an extended warranty? Is it more for the Hybred because of the extra hardware involved with the batteries, electric motor, and so forth.
How long do the batteries last, what type of warranty do they carry, and what is the replacement cost?
Consider that we want to sell or trade a 5 year old Hybred with 75K miles on the clock. Are the batteries getting close to the replacement stage? How will that affect the trade-in or resale value?
Still considering 5 years away, will those Hybrids have "Home" plug in capabilities and "Super" batteries that would render the car we bought today somewhat obsolete?
Before purchasing a Hybred I would research the above.
Kip
(If Civic had a turbo diesel model I would have bought the turbo diesel model)
The Civic Hybrid while 5,000 cheaper than the Prius, was 7,436 more expensive than the Civic. 12,436/7436 EVEN at today's RUG prices (4.39 corner store) buys 2833/1694 gals of fuel. The Civic gets 38-42 mpg in daily commute, and even at the minimum that gets 107,654/ 64,366 commute miles. So while I would recommend doing full spread sheets to include ALL those vehicles under consideration, you see the results of a quick and dirty result on just the acquisition costs difference. Right now a very unexpected spin off is the vehicle with 70,000 miles can be sold for app the same price it was bought new.
Indeed a look back snapshot puts it @ 3.98% per year (15.89% total/4 years)
45mph on the highway here would get you killed. In most cars, I don't see a major economy hit until crossing beyond 70mph. My TDI was more like 90mph before mpg dropped enough to really measure. My '07 Civic seemed to do fine as long as it was kept below 75.
so far: 1st tank=31 mpg
2nd tank=35 mpg