Honda Civic Real World MPG

targettuning

I certainly didn't intend to be all inclusive when I said SUV's and 4wheel drive pick-up trucks are not used to their full potential. I know that many contractors and ranchers and sportsmen and others have the need/desire to get up a muddy/snowy/rock strewn/track or trail or job site and for them a 4 WD pick-up is a necessity but I would wager they make up no more than 10%? or so of those who drop the bucks for one. Many (most?) see a giant 4WD truck or SUV with chrome 22 inch wheels,gold trim and all the rest of that crap as a symbol of wealth (in which case maybe fuel economy isn't as big a concern as it is to me) or status or keeping up with the neighbors. When I see a muddy dented Ram with a full length tool box in the back I figure that particular owner needs it. Same with Suv's..ever notice (and I have) all those 4 wheel drive SUV's littering the median, upright or not, after a big snow? Some selected folks may need some "go power" in the winter, doctors, fire fighters, snow plow drivers, emergency workers etc. but the kids don't really need to go to the Kung-Fu class in a blizzard...do they??? I have come up with the perfect solution with regard to SUV's, rent one when weather or space needs require it and someone else has to feed it the remaining 360 days in a year.

ruking1

Certainly not many folks are trying to paint you into a broad brush position where you offer solution/s that you really had no intention/s of making.! Indeed some folks already have implemented your suggested solution. Almost not a day goes by that one of my kids doesnt get asked to use my SUV for a student move. But truly a better solution is to have those SUVs have a min of 20-40% better mpg!!!!! Actually I would not mind 2 to 3x better mpg in an SUV but right now that approaches a dream in the future.

But in the context of your latest post, surely you would agree that decision, choice, (some folks are true "forced" as you noted) is for the consumer to make. I would hate for this to turn into a quasi (GUN) control type of issue/environment.

What I am saying in the diesel context is the regulators should actually reverse themselves and make diesels(higher mpg vehicles) even more readily available, ESPECIALLY in the SUV/4WD. segment, i.e., better mpg for one minor reason. The regulators actually want that segment to consume MORE, even as they oxymoronically press that segment to use LESS.

Despite ANTI SUV criticism of almost RAT like growth ( in a food rich environment) SUV's are at an historical high of 12% of the population after 3 decades!!! Further unless we all have NOT been paying any attention, the new SUV buying is in almost radical steep decline.

pat

The Civic comes in an SUV trim line now?

ruking1

Being as how the RAV4 Toyota started off as a "platform" model!? I am sure if one looks back on the Honda (Civic) family tree one might indeed find vestiges, as SUV has been a NON PC term for a while!?

pat

Uhhh, whutevah!!

Civic Real World MPG here, please.

gene2

Dover DE to High Point NC. Highway miles, speeds anywhere from 60 to 75 mph. 39 mpg. Not a fluke - got the same highway mileage on the return trip.

caaz

Pat, my civic suv just outclimbed an H1 hummer and got 40 mpg doing it......lol

kevman3

Eased up my speed a little bit and got 35 mpg last 2 tanks...was getting around 32 previously....6K on the car (EX_L)....wondering if its breaking in and getting better mileage, or just from going a bit slower (not too much), or both. But I am happy, its getting what i hoped for last 2 tanks.

ruking1

My take is too much is happening to really get a good read. Ultimately what I did was to take the average of the tank fulls in the first 10,000 miles and got the average. By the way, since I switched to synthetic (Mobil One 0w20) , FROM the oem fill "break in" oil, IMMEDIATELY to the next 10,000 mile OCI ( 20,000) I got an average of 2 mpg better. (it was posted way earlier in the thread)

So for example, one disconcerting thing was to get used to (letting) the automatic transmission that (seems to) want/s to shift gears almost all the time, shift when it wanted given a particular RPM or throttle position.

blufz1

It's the speed,man. The slower you go in top gear,the more mpg you get. The practical problem is it's not safe to go 45-50 on most roads. You will get run over!

kyote

Interesting about how the transmission wants to shift all the time when there are hills. Usually I take mine (auto) off cruise and try to nurse it along thru hills without all that shifting. The little Civic just has no torque. Next time I will leave it on cruise and let it shift and see how I come out on mpg. The previous two Civics I had were standard shift. Like the auto a lot in city traffic, but think the standard worked better for me on hiway.

ruking1

Yes, for me it really started off as a few irritants( your mention of low torque makes a min of plural) . I just started to put a few factors together mentioned in passing on various Honda Civic threads. I do not use cruise control at all on my Civic, as it did not come with a cruise control. Let us know if that behavioral adjustment makes an mpg difference.

rollier1

Just got back from a weekend trip from Toledo to Pittsburgh. Three adults, some overnight luggage and a few groceries. 1/2 flat and 1/2 rolling hills. Averaged 70-72MPH and got an average for the 490 miles of 37.75MPG. Great results on a nice car!

awesomefx

I don't know what I'm doing wrong...or what others are doing right, but I am a little disappointed with the real world mileage of my '08 Civic EX. I have just about 3000 miles now and have found that around town I'm getting about 21-22 mpg and on the highway I'm getting about 30-31 mpg. I initally thought that after say 1000 miles of breakin the mileage would improve, but not so. I like the car and the way it handles but had really hoped for a little better mileage, especially when driving around town.

ruking1

This thread is a pretty good place to get a feeling of the variance. You might also want to scroll back to my post where I "lifted" another 585 person survey on the mpg range. Once you have an overall feeling for the thread, ask away.

mjsten

Good to hear that I am not the only victim of advertising. I am approaching 4000 miles on my 08 EX and my net average is 28.2 MPG. Very disappointing, especially when I got on this blog and have seen regular MPG claims up to 40 MPG. Fille dup today and got 25.1 80% Interstate Hiway Driving at 70MPH.
I have owned Hondas for the last 6 years, and passed them on to my kids. Actually this Civic gets worse MG than my 04 and 96 Accords.
I am going to take it into the dealer for review, but am pretty sure that I have what I have and will simply need to get over it.
BAd deal for $19K

shipo

Keep in mind that many engines these days need as much as 20,000 miles before they're fully broken in, sometimes more. Funny thing, I took our oldest car out on a long road trip last summer and it got the best mileage it had ever gotten by delivering just over 500 miles on a tank of fuel (the furthest it had ever gone before that was ~460), and recording an astounding (for that car) 28.2 miles per gallon (previous best was ~26). So? Well the thing is, that car had over 145,000 miles on it when it recorded those numbers. Not too shabby.

Best Regards,
Shipo

grogerson

You are not alone, I have 2600 KM on my call. I have been driving like a wimp to see if can bump up my mileage. So far the best i can do is 37 miles per gallon imperial. I guess this converts to about 30-31 US. I have had several honda's but this is a disspointment. My last is an 02 civic which is going to one my daughters. In Canada they promoted the car I choose as being the best civic to buy with a 5 speed gear box. Everything else but why the mileage let down.

Bring on the diesel!

rupnok1

I have already posted my experience of my '06 civic LX AT over 22k miles with an average of 38.1 mpg (range, 33.4-44.7). Since then I have stopped graphing mileage and have moved from MD to PA. The car now has 27k miles and is well maintained.

My mileage has recently fallen (roughly, I'm not keeping detailed records) to the high 20's. I attribute this to hilly back roads with a lot of stop signs and lights, shorter commuting distances, cold weather, and ethanolized gas. I'm not accelerating any harder or speeding any more than previously.

I submit this as one demonstration of external conditions playing a major role in mileage. Hope this is helpful to people who are unhappy with their mileage and not finding other explanations.

ruking1

..."Bring on the diesel! "...

While we are back to a more normal commute after the (winter) holidays, the Civic is at the low of the range, 37/38 mpg vs a more normalized 38-42 mpg.

On the diesel side (VW Jetta TDI- EPA 42/49 mpg), we are also at the low of the range, 48 mpg vs a more normalized 48-52 mpg. The Civic is also app 450#'s LIGHTER.

Rupnok1..."I submit this as one demonstration of external conditions playing a major role in mileage. Hope this is helpful to people who are unhappy with their mileage and not finding other explanations"....

I have been observing this for a while (50,000-59,000 miles), and knew (before purchase) the Civic (EPA 29/38 mpg) was particularly suited (for a gasser) for this commute task; but it truly seems the Civic is OPTIMIZED for the 27 mile (80/90% highway 20/10% city) 40-90 min daily commute; if our more "normalized mpg" (38-42 mpg) results are any indication. We truly do nothing special in the way of fuel savings techniques, other than keep up and anticipate (as to not accelerate like a bat out of hell, and panic stop: praying we dont slam into the car in front)

will26

I have noticed a steady drop in my milage this winter. I was around 33-35 all summer and now I'm around 28-29 mpg. It's been 10-20 below zero this past week and I can already tell this tank will be low with only 130 miles on a half tank. I have been driving the same, mostly highway 20 mile/one way commute so I think the cold really hurts milage. Not to mention I warm it up for about 5-10 minutes when it's this cold. Per the grandpa from Grumpy Old Men, "it's colder than a witches ti##y" up here. Taking a road trip this weekend (about 400 miles round trip) so I'll post the milage when I get back. Supposed to get up to 30. Heat Wave!

drmbb

I would not leave it to warm up at idle for so long. The oil in the civic is thin enough that it's not necessary, and the car will actually warm up a lot faster on the road anyway. That cold idling will chug back fuel like a camel after a dry month in the desert. You typically get 10%-20% worse mileage in really cold air anyway, so you want to get the engine up to operating temperature quickly. My 2007 warms up much, much more slowly at idle then if driving, so I tend to move off as quickly as I can provided the windows are staying clear.

Or, spend $50-70 and get a block heater (installation will add more of course) and a timer. That's what I used to use on my Chevy cavalier in Rimouski, Quebec back in the mid 1990's (and we routinely had Jan-Feb daytime highs of around -20C to -40C (once I remember wind chills of -90C being reported). I would have the timer trip the block heater on 40-60 minutes before I started the car, then get in, start up and drive off (sold that car with over 115K km's on it and still running superbly, despite all the cold weather operation).

will26

I have heard that this could be bad on the car and only warm it up in extreme cold temps. I am a wimp and hate driving in the cold plus I am lazy and don't want to scrape my windshield at 5:30 AM (don't have a garage). I will take the engine block heater into advisement. Thanks

magbarn

I just got my 2007 Civic with 6 miles on it 3 weeks ago and already have about 2600 mile on it (I drive 200 miles per day) I drive over a few hills, but my commute is about 95% freeway. Average speed is about 80-85 mph around here. On the few tanks where I deliberately kept my speed about 80mpg I would get around 35 mpg. If I conistently go about 85mph my mpg drops to 33. Why is this important? Guess what our 1.8L engine has an "economy" vtec mode that is limited to 3500rpm or under. On a short geared 5 speed manual that limits me to about 81mph according to the gearin calculations. On th 5 speed auto with 4th gear about the same as my 5th and the 5th gear much taller, they don't hit 3500+ until they've reached over 100+mph. So I would think the auto would get better mileage than me in my situation as EPA's 2008 revised estimate still shows a 2mpg advantage for the slushbox in highway.

shipo

Fact: In extreme cold weather, it is best for your engine (from a wear perspective) if you start it, wait five seconds and drive away (conservatively of course).

Fact: Extended idling while on the rich "cold" circuit dumps significant amounts of gasoline into the cylinders, and much of that gasoline finds its way into the oil causing fuel dilution of the oil (a very bad thing).

Fact: Idling while on the rich "cold" circuit will negatively impact fuel economy.

Best Regards,
Shipo

will26

The last 2 vehicles I owned were an 85 Corolla and a 99 Golf. They both had very good gas milage. I always warmed them up when it was cold and never had any engine/oil problems or poor gas milage. It might have dipped down a tad but not like this civic. Both of those cars were sticks so maybe that's the difference.

magbarn

My average over 2642 miles is 34.2mpg. Considering the speeds I travel at and what others have reported I'm pretty satisfied with my MPG. Don't get me wrong though, I'd still take the manual again as this manual is very fun and easy to drive even in traffic. If someone is just going to for raw mpg numbers and drives the freeway as much as I do, then a slushie might be in order.

tiff_c

So far with only about 700 miles on it my Si is getting 27.75 MPG, 90% highway 10% city. Every single gas station up here uses 10% ethanol. :sick:
I keep it within 5mph of the speed limit and use cruise control. Mot of our roads here where I am are empty and it's too easy to go 10mph over. I can easily use 5th or 6th gear and keep RPMs around 2,000 rpms on the back roads.
Sad part is with all the cops around and the way I have to drive so slow nowadays I really feel like I should have bought a Prius which makes the most of driving slow and boring.
Oh first tank was 25 mpg but no idea if the dealer really filled it.

shipo

"The last 2 vehicles I owned were an 85 Corolla and a 99 Golf. They both had very good gas milage. I always warmed them up when it was cold and never had any engine/oil problems or poor gas milage. It might have dipped down a tad but not like this civic."

[donning my cynic hat]
Yeah, and my grandmother's third cousin's (twice removed) ex-boyfriend's step-brother ran his car 100,000 miles without changing the oil and it was still running. Were it not for that semi that ran the car over I'm sure it would have made it to 101,000 miles too.
[shedding hat]

If you had sent your oil in for analysis I suspect that you'd be singing a different tune. True, you may well have shed yourself of those cars before any troubles occurred, however, extended idling in cold weather is a great way to trash your oil and by extension your engine. Please, don't take my word for it, verify it yourself via scientific methods.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

Best Regards,
Shipo

will26

I sold the Corolla with 150,000 miles because it was rusting out and the VW with 120,000 because of all the little things (non motor) that kept breaking on it. So I don't think I'll take your word for it or get an oil test, but thanks.

shipo

"Tests" of only 150,000 and 120,000 miles are anecdotal and completely irrelevant. That said, they're your cars so you can do what you wish with them, of course that ain't no way I'd ever buy a used car from you due to the way you treat your engines. :P

targettuning

I think the latest EPA tests show the manual transmission verses the automatic as very close....in fact the actual numbers are as follows:
Manual transmission: 26city/34highway/29 combined
Automatic transmission: 25city/36highway/29combined
This reflects the much lower cruising (highway) RPM of the automatic as compared to the manual. I think the auto runs at least 1K RPM lower at any given highway speed. So, yes you are correct in thinking the automatic would give you better economy at the higher than normal speeds you drive.
For the sake of this conversation we own a 2006 EX sedan automatic and it gets 24+ mpg summer, and 22 mpg or so winter in the short commute my wife has. Typically it returns about 35-36 mpg strictly highway at 70-72 mph. This is a 29.5 mpg (or so) average.My observation is that it adheres closely to the 2008 EPA estimates. This is much more realistic than the 30 city/40 highway EPA sticker the car had in 2006.

ras314

"Fact: In extreme cold weather, it is best for your engine (from a wear perspective) if you start it, wait five seconds and drive away (conservatively of course). "

Morning temps here lately have been around 10 deg or a bit lower. The manual civic idles at around 1300 rpm at startup which is way too fast for my driveway in low gear. So as a compromise I let it idle until water temp is 70 deg (several minuets) where closed loop operation starts and bounce along using the clutch to slow down. Idle is around 1000 rpm after the 300 yds to the hwy.

Any suggestions what might be better for the engine?

shipo

Yes, fire the engine up, put it into gear after a few seconds and drive (it's okay to use your brakes to control vehicle speeds). That allows your engine to come up to operating temperature much quicker and actually causes less engine wear. That said, what you don't want to be doing is revving the crap out of that poor thing when it's cold.

As an example, last year I was working at a place that had the parking lot that was literally a couple of hundred yards from the freeway ramp. When the engine was cold (as in pretty much anything below 40), especially on sub zero days, I would start the engine, put it into gear and gingerly drive out of the lot. On that car I would simply keep the RPMs under 3,000 while accelerating up the ramp and bringing it up to speed.

A couple of FWIWs:
1) I was usually able to get up to freeway speeds without exceeding 2,500 rpms, however, due to traffic I allowed 3,000 when necessary.
2) I always use "0W-" synthetic oils which flow much faster when extremely cold.
3) Virtually every expert on the subject of automotive design and maintenance will tell you the same thing I did, "start the car and drive it carefully until it warms up".

Best Regards,
Shipo

ruking1

"My average over 2642 miles is 34.2mpg. Considering the speeds I travel at and what others have reported I'm pretty satisfied with my MPG. Don't get me wrong though, I'd still take the manual again as this manual is very fun and easy to drive even in traffic. If someone is just going to for raw mpg numbers and drives the freeway as much as I do, then a slushie might be in order"

While I realize the "drivers" so to speak are preference, convenience, low premium, the fact that there are a population (to a majority) of drivers who truly do not know how to drive a manual ; I think from a longer term and how many highway miles you do put on your vehicle, that a manual is really the ticket. I am sure you would agree, there are literally a host of reasons.

I say this from the point of view of having an automatic (for convenience) Honda Civic, 54 miles R/T daily commute, mpg range between 38-42 mpg. My swag would be +plus 2 mpg (40-44 mpg) with the manual. This would equate to app 79 gals saved over 60,000 miles.

magbarn

I used to be in the camp "warm up" before driving off. I used to live near Mono lake near Mammoth ski resort 10 years ago with temps usually around 20-30F and my 93 civic would return about 21 mpg with my constant 15 minute warmups. The moment I changed my habit and immediately started driving as soon as I could clear my windows my mpg went up to 28mpg for my 10 minute commute. The only reason I could see why people like to burn gas to warm their car up is for the comfort factor. My solution later on would be to buy cars with seat heaters, it makes cold starts much more bearable. Now that I live in a place where 40 is the coldest it gets, there's no need for seat heaters now. BTW I had that car for 250,000 miles till I sold it, so the lack of warming up the engine did not impact my engine life one bit.

drmbb

I think the point is to get the car's engine up to operating temperature as quickly as possible. It's only at normal operating temperature that all the sensors and computer controls on the fuel system start to precisely regulate the fuel mixture. The 5w20 oil (0w20 for hybrids) used in the civic is going to provide more then adequate lubrication even at temperatures below freezing (I'm running Mobile 1 synthetic in my 2007 civic EX/AT sedan).

The engine warms up much more rapidly with a load on it then at idle, so driving off (not punching the throttle to redline obviously, but moderating rpms) promptly just means the engine gets up to temperature that much faster. The faster that happens, the less fuel gets wasted relative to a cold engine running a rich mixture at idle.

As you mention, the real problem some days is the dang windows fogging up too thickly and quickly to allow you to just start up and drive off safely. But that's basically my limiting deciding factor about how quickly I pull away after firing my civic up in the morning.

When you think about it, at idle you are getting 0mpg, so unless it was essential for the longevity and well being of the engine, which it's not, what's the point?

reijo

Have anybody any experience with an electric block heater, which is common here where I live? It is recommended to use from the 41 degree onwards to save both the engine and fuel. The first mile with a cold engine is worse than 10 - 20 with a properly warmed. If you add a heater inside the car it almost turns the coldness to heat

ruking1

No, but correct on all counts. I would add the real (unseen) benefit is less draw on the battery. In line with that, I would add a battery charger/trickle charger. Cold (for a host of reasons) is hard on the battery.

reijo

Your right. The whole "set" contains also a battery charger. The weak point is, that you'll need an electric plug to get the whole use of a system.

drmbb

Don't all the Canadian civics still come with a block heater installed? Every other car I ever bought in Canada had one. Whether done at the factory or by the dealer didn't matter, just every car I owned in Canada came from the lot with a block heater installed (my Chevy Cavalier may have been made in Ohio, like all cavaliers, but those slated for Canada had the block heater installed at the factory).

Civic block heaters sell for about $60.00 on the www. Do dealers in places like N. Dakota or Minnesota not put them in all their vehicles by default? A block heater can make a big difference in the time it takes the car to get up to operating tempature, especially once temps get well below freezing.

reijo

I can't tell you what is the common practice in Canada but here in the Northern Europe (I live in Finland) the installation is mostly done by the dealer. The other thinkable choice viz. a gasoline/diesel pre-heater is also quite common. It is even more convenient because it doesn't need a plug but the rather small 36Ah battery in Civic may cause trouble.

If I don't use the pre-heater the fuel consumption easily exeeds 23mpg (17l/100km) during the first two miles.

johnsmith2wz

ummm sorry :confuse: 17l/100km is more like 13.8 mpg I don't know how you got 23

reijo

Thanks! Calculators rules! (if you can use them )

I'l keep on that 17 liters / 100km

kevman3

My mileage slowly keeps getting better. Now averaging about 33 hwy goin fast, 7500 miles on my 08 EX-l

jr4jc

i have now filled my new 2008 LX three times
37.2 mpg driving very careful
36.2 mpg with the wife driving some of, and driving the car hard to see if it was sporty
33 mpg warming it up a couple mornings, and the wife driving some it too

i will post more as i refill it more and more.
but i am loving this car and at 36-37 mpg and that mostly back roads, driving 40-50 mph i think it has potential, but i admit i baby it and drive it very easy.

any tips for improving mileage i am open
K=N???
drop in or cold air intake??

shipo

K&N filter and CAIs don't do squat for fuel economy (in fact, some suggest that it can actually hurt). For the best fuel economy in all conditions, run the car exactly as it came from the factory.

Best Regards,
Shipo

kipk

I agree with Shipo!
Don't start messing with the car. It is designed with longevity and mileage in mind. If a different type of intake would have improved anything, Honda would have used it.

whitewolf

I disagree with shipo and kipk, I had a K&N Ram air system installed and a magnaflow performance exhaust (because it has a mellow tone). After I settled back down to normal driving (the 10 hp increase is quite noticeable and fun).
I had increased my mpg by 3 city and 2 highway. I chose a Ram intake because of snow/puddles in my area (2007 civic coupe). My son had a cold air intake installed on his 2006 civic and has not experienced any problems with snow or water. But no mpg readings on his because he is a teenager.
Shipo and KipK you guys should really try some aftermarket products before you discourage their use. You have been around here for awhile and people do listen to you.

shipo

Your anecdotal reports not withstanding, there is absolutely zero scientific evidence that these aftermarket goodies of yours do anything for improving your fuel economy.

FWIW, at wide open throttle, I might buy that your engine will be able to breathe a little better, but at the miniscule throttle setting that you use for day to day driving, no, CAIs, Rams, coffee can mufflers and other bolt ons do nothing to improve fuel economy, in fact, it is quite often the other way around.

Best Regards,
Shipo