Thanks David for finally posting some useful information instead of the usual unscientific banter often found here. According the data on gear ratios, 2006 and 2007 have a lower ratio (4.375) than previous years (4.428) and therefore should get better mileage (not taking other variables into account that may have changed). It looks like they primarily lowered first and second gear and increased fourth gear. However, the changes are minimal and I would not think it would make that much of a difference. Think I will start looking at 2006 again since they have airbags all the way back.
I'm disappointed. All your talk about trips to Myrtle Beach, I wrongfully assumed that you are a fellow golfer. I felt a bond there. So what do you go there for if not golf? The larger sand traps and water hazards which some people refer to as beaches???
More airbags is a good reason to favor the 2006 over the 2005. I wasn't aware of that important difference until you pointed it out. Safety is #1. Gas mileage is #?.
In 5th gear the actual real world ratio are 2.60 for the 06/07 and 2.58 for the 05. Not enough difference to make a difference.
For all practical purposes fuel economy will lean toward the vehicle with a lower ratio (higher number) in the lower gears for better pulling and getting the weight moving.
In the higher gears (4th and 5th) the economy will generally lean toward the higher ratio (lower number). This can rapidly change in hilly conditions, heavy loads, towing and such.
1st 06= 11.78...05=11.34. The 06 pulls better.
2nd 06= 6.85...05= 6.87. The 05 pulls better.
3rd 06= 4.75...05= 4.52. The 06 pulls better.
4th 06= 3.42...05= 3.39. The 06 pulls better.
5th 06= 2.60...05= 2.58. The 06 pulls better.
These numbers are so close they would only make the slightest difference in perfect conditions. Even then, it could go either way.
My wife's extended family is there. They are spread out from Conway to Myrtle Beach. Some have some serious money and live at the beach. Most are farmers and live in Conway!
Last few trips have been to funerals, thus the load of 4 people.
I favor the shooting sports, which are sometimes referred to as "Red Neck Golf".
In my world if someone says, "Let's go shoot a few holes", it means me are going to literally shoot a few holes!
If we were allowed on the course and could see the flag and cup on the next green, there be a lot of hole in one "SHOTS".
So, in theory at least, we have a bond. We both like to stand here and accomplish something out or over there! Also sometimes the heated debates.!
The gear ratio changed for the 4th and 5th gears in 2005 and then all gear ratios changed in 2006. (4th and 5th changed again too) If you look at 5th gear, it changed from .520 to .595, that's around 14%. If you look at the final drive ratio, it changed from 4.428 to 4.375. That's a little more than 1% difference. Check back to the RPM @ 70 mph and the difference seems to be around 210 rpm. That seems significant and matches the 14% difference.
I am still having a blast by occassionally driving my 2007 like a performance SUV. I consider this a good solid break-in period now that I have 4000 miles on it. Took it up to 6000 rpm and above 100mph yesterday on the way home from the airport. Awesome!...until I got into the bugs that were hatching from the rice patties. They are literally painted onto the entire front of the car! Sounded like rain on the windshield.
"Ours and other VCM equipped Ody's don't seem to do as well with cruise set. They spend too much time turning VCM on and off in response to terrain even though most of our FL driving is mighty flat. If you're like my wife and almost imperceptibly but constantly adjust throttle, you'll get much lower MPG than holding it rock steady regardless of terrain."
Seems like there is a common point of discussion here.
Took a trip over the weekend with my wife, 3 kids, and a Lab and all associated luggage in the back. Outbound leg was 367 highway miles at @75-80mph with AC on. Got 21 mpg. On the way back we got 21.4 mpg. Not too bad with the weight, speed, and AC. One thing I tried was strictly 87+ octane gas without ethanol - which I believe made a difference.
Overall with 17,546 miles (60% highway and 40% city) getting 17mpg overall.
I leased my 05 EX-L nav in apr 05. Been watching all the posts about complaints and disappointments. always got about 15in town and 20 plus on road/suburaban/country mix. We planned a long trip this summer, so decided to keep records of miles, regardless of terrain, and gas used. First, let me tell you this was with a loaded down with luggage and cargo, 75+ on the interstate. Route was rural coastal northern CA, south to Grand Canyon, drove around area for 2 days, east on interstate to KC area, lots of suburban driving, north to rural Southeast South Dakota, lots of country driving, south to I80, to I5 to CA20 and west home, total of 5465 miles. The envelope PLEASE: 22.003!! No complaints for a heavy load, heavy foot.
Went over sierra and rocky twice, lots of other up and downs, too. forgot to mention that this was an AWD. South Dakota is pretty flat, as is KC area. coming and going from home is constant up and down small mountains/big hills.
Holy Cow! That's what I call winding up the toy and letting 'er go. FYI everyone, I-5 is about as flat as it gets from Redding to Bakersfield is about 350 miles with an elevation change of around 200 feet, straight down the California valley. I-80 and Hwy 20 climb from the valley to the summit of 7300' in less than 70 miles. And South Dakota via the Grand Canyon is, well, a looooong ways.
Wow, these days most people drive to make good time, a few drive to HAVE a good time. I can't wait to be like you and do both!
I have a 2004 EX-L AWD with 32K on it, I just returned from a 550 mile trip ,,,,two laps on I-40, 275 miles each way. I checked mileage both ways and overall. I am happy to report 28.5 MPG both legs of the trip. This was not loaded with any significant additional weight other than myself...a laptop and overnight bag. Used cruise control much of the way set at 65 MPH; a couple of areas I hit nearly 70-80 for very short periods and got caught in a 35 minute stop and go situation due to a accident. This is the best mileage I have ever gotten on this trip that I make a several times per year, although I have gotten 27 MPG before on this same route.
These Pilots are capable of good mileage, IF the drivers are willing. :shades:
What type terrain? A/C use?
It's ironic that the best mileage "trip" for our '03 was where we also got stopped and crawled for nearly an hour due to road construction. We got just shy of 28 mpg for that 1000+ mile trip.
These Pilots are capable of good mileage, IF the drivers are willing.
Kip,
Seems to me like driver's willingness was not a factor at all in his case. Seems like he did nothing special to achieve great gas mileage. He even encountered a considerable traffic delay. My impression is that his Pilot got what it got (which to me is remarkable) without any special effort on his part (which to me is even more remarkable).
He set the cruise on 65. That's a special effort in this day and time.
It would depend on the speed limit where he was driving. Highway speed limits where I live are mostly 55, though traffic generally moves at 65 to 75. If he went 65 in zones where the speed limit is higher than 65, then that would be a special effort. Otherwise, I don't think so, cruise control or not.
Special effort?.. Most would probably say I did to some extent, but really it was close to the way I normally drive. I do keep fuel consumption in mind when I drive, but I usually drive close to the speed limit. The speed limit on that was mostly 70 MPH, with a few places at 65. I should also say that I made two stops for coffee on the return leg! The terrain has some rolling country, some flat, and then up and down the Cumberland Plateau. No air conditioning...I generally don't use it except when it is very hot or when my wife is traveling with me...in which case it is required! I have never noticed much effect of air conditioning on the mileage of this vehicle. But I agree with Kip...Pilots are capable of relative good mileage for their size and it doesn't take extreme efforts to achieve good gasoline mileage. On somewhat more hilly trips I usually get around 25-26MPG when fully loaded( wife, dog, and much cargo). My lease on this vehicle is coming to an end in September and I am torn about what to do. The lease buy out price is a little higher than the market value...but this has been a first rate vehicle. I think if I lease another one I will go for the 2WD.
I'm envious. My Pilot and me are a much less capable combination. Just 17mpg overall in the first 7 months. Very few "trips" but a lot of highway driving in the 5 to 20 mile range. Feel I should be averaging more like 20mpg since EPA is 17/22. I do just fine with cars relative to their EPAs, but do not have the right touch for getting comparatively similar mpg out of Hondas big boys (Odysseys and Pilots).
Enjoy whatever you get next. Your lease expiration in September might be good timing to get a great deal on a 2007 Pilot, the last of the first generation Pilot. I think the 2008 model, similar in looks to the new MDX, will be coming out around then. Depending on where you live, a 2WD Pilot may make a lot of sense. Compare it to the 4WD on a lease. When I leased mine, the residual value percentage was higher for the 4WD, as a result of which I in effect got 4WD for free.
"Seems to me like driver's willingness was not a factor at all in his case. Seems like he did nothing special to achieve great gas mileage."
You are kidding , Right?
You see David, everyone doesn't "NEED" to be out front or passing most cars. Everyone doesn't "NEED" to run 75-80 at every given opportunity.
People willing to drive with mileage in mind will "generally" get better mileage than those that don't under similar driving conditions.
Seems to me that folks like yourself are looking for confirmation that it is the car and not the driver that is the problem with poor mileage. To a degree you are correct. The Pilot is not going to get the same mileage as a sedan with similar power. Someone said the Pilot has the aerodynamics of a Brick. Compared to sedans that is accurate. So do most SUV type vehicles.
My point is, that if driven with mileage in mind the Pilot will return good mileage or even superior mileage compared to other SUVs.
You got in my face directly and through another poster when I said the guy reporting to drive at 60 or 65 mpg, and getting 22 mpg was not good. Again you are attempting to confirm the Pilots tendency to get poor mileage. Misery loves company!
Sure there are Pilots that have problems, other than the driver, that will not achieve reasonable mileage. Those need to be "FIXED"!
I feel there are basically 2 types of people that visit this forum.
One is those that are getting better mileage than is mostly being reported here. They are happy with their mileage and move on.
The second group gets poor mileage. Some truly have car problems. Some are driving in impossible mileage conditions, like 5 miles and 30 minutes to work, and those that like to "FEEL" the power. This is a place where they feel comfortable that it isn't only their car. Truth be known they would get below average mileage with any SUV they drive that is the size and weight of the Pilot.
It is much easier to argue with success than to be "WILLING" to try to actually achieve that success. Especially when you can find others to agree with you.
As I have stated several times. My 03 Pilot will return below 20 MPG (18) if driven at 80 MPH with 4 people aboard. At 65-70 It will return 26 +/- mpg with the same load. At 65 mph with 2 people it will get 27-28 mpg.
No joke. Just once again, a totally different viewpoint from your own. Basically the poster mostly drove at the speed limit (65), which is not slow (where I live it is mostly 55). Nothing exceptional in my view, except for his mpg.
Even when I have tried to max my mpg by driving 65 - 70 and keeping rpm below 3,000, my Pilot still only returned more than 20mpg ONE time. So excuse me if I am skeptical, just as the last poster is (made me laugh - 28mpg Pilot v. 30mpg Tahoe), when you and VERY FEW OTHERS post mpg in the high 20s. You would come to know how we feel if someone posted say 35mpg, way better than you are getting. Wouldn't you have a hard time believing it? I bet you would. Would you think that there is necessarily something wrong with your Pilot and/or your way of driving? I bet you wouldn't.
Based on my own personal experience with the Pilot and based on the totality of the posts in this forum, I contend that there may be something wrong (but wrong in a good way!) with your Pilot and a few others to get such fantastic mpg. Maybe you and a few other folks just got lucky. Maybe you won the Pilot mpg lottery.
I refuse to believe that there is something wrong with me or my Pilot just because I cannot come close to replicating your numbers (or good fortune, I should say) even when I try. Based on the totality of the posts in this forum, it is clear that my results are absolutely mainstream (par for the course, as us golfers like to say). Although you like to put me and other mainstreamers on the defensive, it is really you that has more to be defensive about (yet more to be happy about too).
"Maybe you and a few other folks just got lucky. Maybe you won the Pilot mpg lottery."
David, Maybe so! Just makes me wonder why, when I drive more aggressive, I get less mileage than you. :confuse:
"Basically the poster mostly drove at the speed limit (65), which is not slow (where I live it is mostly 55). Nothing exceptional in my view, except for his mpg."
By your own admission, in other posts, you tend to drive 10-25 mph over the speed limit, drive the way you wish and therefore get the mileage you deserve. When I drive that way, my mileage is bad also. Try driving the posted speed limits with a truly light foot and you will see better mileage.
Whenever I make a comment to another poster and you are determined to say something to the contrary you shouldn't be surprised to receive the like!
So be it! You probably never will get decent mileage! Congratulations you win!
You keep painting me as an aggressive driver who gets the poor mpg I deserve.
But you are missing a key point, which is when I have tried to get good gas mileage (i.e., keep it at 65 - 70 and under 3,000 rpm when passing and coming up to speed), I STILL get nowhere near what you get.
My 07 4WD has 4,600 miles on it. I have been getting 19 mpg on my normal commute and my mileage is getting better every fill-up. A couple tanks ago, I drove the normal commute a little more energetic than normal and got 18 mpg on that tank.
I just returned from a 283 mile trip down the valley and finally exceeded the EPA rating and got 22.2 mpg. This trip was flat, cruise on as much as possible and exclusively highway. Had the AC on during the return trip. I set the cruise to 1 mph above the speed limit, which was 70 most of the way and 65 where it wasn't 70. Maybe hit 75 mph briefly during on ramp entry. I had to stay in the right lane so that I wouldn't get run over by most of the traffic, but at least I never got passed by a big-rig.
I expect my mileage to get better. Still, I don't think this machine will get the mileage of the 04 Pilots. I have a 04 Odyssey which returned 28 mpg during a similar trip. The 04 transmission just acts, feels, and revs different. When cruising at 70 mph in the Pilot vs the Odyssey, the Pilot engine is not as relaxed. It does stay in overdrive on the small rises though. All-in-all, I am not dissapointed.
Kip, you have to test drive a new Pilot just to get a feeling of the transmission. I sure hope they upgrade to a six speed when they redesign it. I brought-up all this transmission stuff because of the way the Pilot felt versus the Ody.
"You keep painting me as an aggressive driver who gets the poor mpg I deserve"
David, You painted yourself an aggressive driver. I simply agree with you. Let us not forget your famous words!
"Typically exceed speed limits by 10 to 25 mpg. Get up to speed quickly."
And equally as good! When you had a weak moment!
"I have now confirmed for myself the potential for this thing to be something other than a gas-guzzling beast. Problem is, I don't like to drive that way. I like to get up to speed quickly and then I like to drive above the speed limit. Then I get what I deserve? Less than 17mpg."
Seems that every time you point your finger at me, you point 3 back at yourself.
As I said above: Congratulations, You win! You drive for poor mileage and you get it.
Your mileage is getting better it seems! Don't know if this means anything or not but, FWIW I use Pennsoil Semi Synthetic. Have a bug deflector and window shades, running boards, and run the Goodyear Integras at 34 front and rear.
What type of terrain going and coming was the trip? What kind of load? What is your RPM at 70.
Seems that every time I think about driving an '07 something comes up. Will try to do that soon. Maybe next time the 03 oil gets changed.
The Yukon Denali folks have their problems too! Thanks!
My elevation is around 140' MSEL. Down through the Stockton/Delta area, elevation is around 20' MSEL. Destination was around 100' MSEL. Pretty darn flat. Load was just me with no significant cargo. The engine runs at around 2150 rpm at 70 mph. I think at 2000 rpm it runs at around 62 mph.
I typically run my Bridgestones Duelers really firm at 40 psi front and 38 rear. Their max psi is 44. Having spent all those years working in a service station, I have a good feeling of how tires wear vs the psi rating and I prefer to get my use out of everything. I also like a firm ride, which was a factor in why I bought the Pilot.
I plan on running full synthetic in the Odyssey and the Pilot once they exceed their warranty period and I start changing it myself (I am trying to keep good relations with the dealer but he doesn't like the fact that I just get oil changes instead of the recommended mileage $ervice$)
I couldn't help but look at the Yukon posts since someone blurted something in this thread. The best I saw was 17, the worst was 6.4. My old pickup gets 14-16 rain or shine, highway or city, WFO or gentle throttle and it is 40-year-old technology.
I still can't believe how much fun the Pilot is to drive and how well it gets up and moves.
Yep, you are definitely turning more RPM. Mine looks to be about 1850-1900 at 70. Somewhere in the 10% difference. Even if that affected the mileage by 10%.........?
That particular route, load, tire pressure and your apparent driving style would surely dictate higher mileage. Especially since you have gotten 28 with the Odyssey under similar conditions.
As I recall you did the ILP! Is that correct?
I realize that road mile markers are off a bit, but I have found them to be reasonably accurate over a ten mile stretch or so. Have you checked your odometer against them. Your speedometer against a GPS?
Are you burning straight gas (87 octane) or is it Ethanol?
Sorry to be so nosey. You just seem to be such a gentle soul, and it truly bothers me that your particular car is doing this! We gotta FIX this thing JOE! :confuse:
Our dealer uses that PennsOil Semi Synthetic. Or so they say! I've been told to stay away from the synthetics until an engine is completely broken in. Dealer said that 3750 miles is enough to start using it. When the warranty expires, will probably go to full synthetic.
10-4 on the Tahoe thing. I visited the Highlander forum, and they seem to have the same pleasures and problems as us.
Yes I did the idle-learn back in the middle of winter. I haven't checked the odometer and that would be something fun to do next trip. We have a special gasoline here in parts of California but I don't think it is ethanol.
"Two types of California Cleaner Burning Gasoline (CBG) used year-round, also referred to as CARB. California CBG is formulated to meet the most stringent gasoline standard in the United States, including very low RVP (vapor pressure) and reduced levels of sulfur, benzene, and other chemicals. Gasoline sold in areas also subject to the federal RFG standard must contain an oxygenate, identified as “RFG/CA CBG.”"
I don't really know what effects the additives have on mpg and can't seem to find any specific info on the recipe. I only use Chevron gas. (Guess which service station I worked at) 87 octane
It took around 15,000 miles on the Odyssey before the engine broke-in and the mileage stopped improving. That thing will still only get 15-17 around town for my wife.
I've heard that even 10% ethanol can affect mileage in a negative way. All that "Stuff" that California requires could also make a difference. There are a couple of things you might want to try.
Since gas formulas may have changed for hot weather, an ILP might help. Another would be to gas up out of state if you take a trip and can ease over the line with a near empty tank.
I gotta hand it to ya - - you are the master of the quote game.
I feel as though I'm wasting my breath (err, make that keystrokes) explaining myself to you, but here's my response.
Let me, once again, try to put those two quotes into context for you.
QUOTE 1. As I have explained repeatedly, highway speed limits where I live are mostly 55mph. Yes, I typically exceed the speed limit by 10 to 25, but that makes my normal speed the same 65 to 70 that most folks report in at, and that makes my TOP speed the 80mph you still seem to think I regularly drive at. When I reach 80, I slow right down.
QUOTE 2. Every once in a while a last place team beats a first place team. When it happens, you take your hat off to them and say good game. In what you refer to as "a weak moment," I've given a rare mpg compliment to my Pilot.
Remember quite a few posts ago I discussed Newton and his law of motion. The key to highway efficiency at any given speed is to maintain that velocity. (post #343 & 351) This led to the discuusion of cruise control and F=m(a) and friction......
My best tank was 21.4. My second best was 19.9. Nothing else even close. Both were mostly highway (my best more so than my second best) and both were with some effort on my part to achieve better mpg. I kept down my speed and didn't let it rev beyond 3,000.
What has been lost on Kip is that while at first I just drove my Pilot normally (for me) and got bad mpg, there came I time when I started making an effort to do better. And I have done better, though still not in the same ballpark as Kip and other high-20s posters driving 65 - 70.
My overall lifetime mpg is exactly 17mpg over 8,000 miles. There's a lot of highway driving in there, but mostly just stretches of 5 to 20 miles.
Mostly what we hear about in this forum are trips where someone gets this or that depending on his speed and load. I can't really compare my mpg to that because I rarely take "trips." Seems trips at a steady not too high speed is the key to getting fantastic mpg from a Pilot (or any vehicle for that matter, I suppose). I rarely take trips, so . . . But having said that, with the exceptions of Hondas big boys (Pilot and Odyssey), my family has never had a problem driving our respective normal ways and achieving overall mpg around the mid-point of the EPA city/highway ratings (and this includes other Hondas such as CRV, Accord and Civic). In the case of my Pilot, my overall mpg is the same as the EPA city rating. A bit of a bummer, but about what I expected from reading this forum before leasing a Pilot.
"I gotta hand it to ya - - you are the master of the quote game."
David,
Well "Thank ya, Thank Ya very much" !
It is a sad time indeed when dragging up quotes is the only way to keep things in proper perspective.
In my day and age, deals were made with a hand shake, and a man's words meant something. They took responsibility for their words and their actions. Too bad that is not always still true! Now it is more like, "I didn't say that... Uh..Oh...Uh... well, that isn't what I meant"! You are the one that said you are not willing to alter your driving style and therefore deserve the mileage you get.(Paraphrased) You said you like to get up to speed fast, you prefer to not ride in the right lane, and you drive 10-25 mph over the speed limit (also Paraphrased). These are the things that separate you, and people that drive like you, from someone that gets better mileage.
Whether you believe it or not, if you drive 35 MPH in that 35 mph posted speed limit, with a light foot, you will get better mileage than driving 45-60 (10-25 over). Getting up to speed fast burns more fuel than using a lighter foot. And being determined to not be in that RH lane puts you in a position and possibly a mindset to be running faster and using a heavier foot. (Gotta pass all these slow pokes driving the speed limit!) You also said you are convinced the Pilot is NOT a gas guzzling beast, and because of you driving style you get what you deserve. That we agree on!
Some Pilots get better mileage than others under similar driving conditions. You say something is wrong with mine (in a good way) because of it's better than average mileage. Yet when I drive aggressively, run the AC full tilt, leave the cruise set, and stay out of that RH lane, my mileage drops to 18-20 mpg on that trip of basically pure highway. What went terribly wrong was me. Not the car. Under those conditions I get worse mileage than others have reported. Apparently I still have the ability to drive more aggressively than they do!
Could be that they would get considerably better mileage with a different approach in driving style.
You have said that both your Oddy and Pilot get below EPA estimates. You blame the Pilot's gearing. What was the problem with the Oddy?
On the other hand Joe has gotten 28 mpg out of his Oddy on that route when driving conservatively. Yet his Pilot won't come close. There is something wrong with that car. Others have reported about the same mileage he is getting, but they are running faster, using the AC more, heavier loads, and worse terrain.
Truth be known, I'm probably more concerned with Joe's mileage than he is. He is too nice a guy to have this happen, and I want it to stop!
As mentioned in my reply to Joe, what has been totally lost on you is that I have made an effort to change the way I drive my Pilot in order to get better mpg. My quotes which you get so much mileage out of (no pun intended) are from an earlier time when I just drove my Pilot in my normal way and got a correspondingly poor mpg for it. After getting some ideas from this forum, I experimented with some things. I did see some improvement (encouraging), though I realize that me and my Pilot still cannot come close to replicating numbers posted by you and a few others (discouraging).
(While Joe seems pleased with his Ody's highway mpg, he does not seem to be pleased with his Ody's overall mpg, which was exactly my experience.)
By the way, what is your overall lifetime mpg? I don't recall you ever posting that information. Instead you just repeatedly tell us what mpg you get on a certain trip depending on speeed and load. You've told us the good and the bad. Now tell us the ugly.
Without looking it up it seems you said something about a "half as-ed" effort. Maybe that wasn't you!
You said "My overall lifetime mpg is exactly 17mpg over 8,000 miles. There's a lot of highway driving in there, but mostly just stretches of 5 to 20 miles."
These are my MPG figures for this past year from 5/17/06: 19.4 - 18.9 - 17.9 - 17.5 - 18.9 - 20.0 - 19.2 - 20.2 - 18.0 - 19.4 - 21.3 - 17.5 - 18.9 - 17.2 - 17.0 - 18.9 - 17.3 - 26.1 - 25.9 - and 19.8 on 06/06/07...
That figures to 19.5 mpg overall. You are getting 17 mpg overall with a more aggressive driving style. Seems to me that in the overall scheme of things you have nothing to be complaining about. Seems the biggest difference is the pure highway mileage. My above figure of 26.1 mpg was with 4 people and luggage at 65+/- MPH. The 25.9 mpg was the same load on the return trip at 70+/- mph.
Previous years might be 1 MPG more just from "Looking" at it.
I sincerely believe that if you drove that same 700+ mile round trip at the same speeds, with a light foot, while using AC and cruise sparingly, you would get near the same mileage +/- !
Somewhere in that mess are some 3-4 mpg lower than average mileage where trips were involved. That was after I had disconnected the battery. Later did an ILP which brought the mileage back up. I'm thinking it was the ones in Parentheses () but not sure. Also note we did more long trips back then than now! The highlighted ones are 80+ with cruise and full AC vs 65 mph very little cruise or AC.
Now we're getting somewhere. Your mpg for the past year is about 19.5, whereas my lifetime mpg is 17.0. Your Pilot is well broken in. My Pilot is still fairly new. Your overall mpg includes far more long highway trips than mine. My driving style is harder than yours. My Pilot revs higher than yours. Finally it appears that our Pilots may be two peas from the same pod after all.
The half-assed attempt quote is properly attributable to me. However, it related to my first time changing my style to see the affect on mpg. Since then, I have tried harder.
If it wasn't for those high-mpg trips you take which raise your overall mpg, you might also be a not so proud member of the 17 club (well, OK, maybe 18.5 in your case). The gap has narrowed considerably and the difference can now be rationalized in several respects as mentioned above. I'm glad I asked about your overall mpg. I feel so much better now.
Comments
When we were talking about fat gals, it was only an analogy. I'm a lean mean golfing machine.
I'm disappointed. All your talk about trips to Myrtle Beach, I wrongfully assumed that you are a fellow golfer. I felt a bond there. So what do you go there for if not golf? The larger sand traps and water hazards which some people refer to as beaches???
David
In 5th gear the actual real world ratio are 2.60 for the 06/07 and 2.58 for the 05.
Not enough difference to make a difference.
For all practical purposes fuel economy will lean toward the vehicle with a lower ratio (higher number) in the lower gears for better pulling and getting the weight moving.
In the higher gears (4th and 5th) the economy will generally lean toward the higher ratio (lower number).
This can rapidly change in hilly conditions, heavy loads, towing and such.
1st 06= 11.78...05=11.34. The 06 pulls better.
2nd 06= 6.85...05= 6.87. The 05 pulls better.
3rd 06= 4.75...05= 4.52. The 06 pulls better.
4th 06= 3.42...05= 3.39. The 06 pulls better.
5th 06= 2.60...05= 2.58. The 06 pulls better.
These numbers are so close they would only make the slightest difference in perfect conditions. Even then, it could go either way.
Kip
My wife's extended family is there. They are spread out from Conway to Myrtle Beach. Some have some serious money and live at the beach. Most are farmers and live in Conway!
Last few trips have been to funerals, thus the load of 4 people.
I favor the shooting sports, which are sometimes referred to as "Red Neck Golf".
In my world if someone says, "Let's go shoot a few holes", it means me are going to literally shoot a few holes!
If we were allowed on the course and could see the flag and cup on the next green, there be a lot of hole in one "SHOTS".
So, in theory at least, we have a bond. We both like to stand here and accomplish something out or over there! Also sometimes the heated debates.!
Kip
That adds a lot of color. Sorry about the recent deaths in your wife's extended family.
David
For the links about gear ratios check out post #376 of this discussion.
justaveragejoe, "Honda Pilot Real World MPG" #367, 14 May 2007 8:44 am
Oh wait, You already found them.
Joe
The gear ratio changed for the 4th and 5th gears in 2005 and then all gear ratios changed in 2006. (4th and 5th changed again too) If you look at 5th gear, it changed from .520 to .595, that's around 14%. If you look at the final drive ratio, it changed from 4.428 to 4.375. That's a little more than 1% difference. Check back to the RPM @ 70 mph and the difference seems to be around 210 rpm. That seems significant and matches the 14% difference.
I am still having a blast by occassionally driving my 2007 like a performance SUV. I consider this a good solid break-in period now that I have 4000 miles on it. Took it up to 6000 rpm and above 100mph yesterday on the way home from the airport. Awesome!...until I got into the bugs that were hatching from the rice patties. They are literally painted onto the entire front of the car! Sounded like rain on the windshield.
Will post my mileage next fill-up.
Joe
"Ours and other VCM equipped Ody's don't seem to do as well with cruise set. They spend too much time turning VCM on and off in response to terrain even though most of our FL driving is mighty flat. If you're like my wife and almost imperceptibly but constantly adjust throttle, you'll get much lower MPG than holding it rock steady regardless of terrain."
Seems like there is a common point of discussion here.
Joe
Overall with 17,546 miles (60% highway and 40% city) getting 17mpg overall.
Not bad at all !
What type of terrain? Cruise?
Thanks,
Kip
always got about 15in town and 20 plus on road/suburaban/country mix.
We planned a long trip this summer, so decided to keep records of miles, regardless of terrain, and gas used.
First, let me tell you this was with a loaded down with luggage and cargo, 75+ on the interstate. Route was rural coastal northern CA, south to Grand Canyon, drove around area for 2 days, east on interstate to KC area, lots of suburban driving, north to rural Southeast South Dakota, lots of country driving, south to I80, to I5 to CA20 and west home, total of 5465 miles.
The envelope PLEASE: 22.003!! No complaints for a heavy load, heavy foot.
Good informative post!
Did you have a fairly good mix of flat and Hilly terrain?
Kip
forgot to mention that this was an AWD.
South Dakota is pretty flat, as is KC area. coming and going from home is constant up and down small mountains/big hills.
Unfortunately, also broke my windshield as a rock from an oncoming truck hit it. I didn't notice the crack until I re-fueled.
Joe
Wow, these days most people drive to make good time, a few drive to HAVE a good time. I can't wait to be like you and do both!
These Pilots are capable of good mileage, IF the drivers are willing. :shades:
What type terrain? A/C use?
It's ironic that the best mileage "trip" for our '03 was where we also got stopped and crawled for nearly an hour due to road construction. We got just shy of 28 mpg for that 1000+ mile trip.
Way to go!
Kip
Kip,
Seems to me like driver's willingness was not a factor at all in his case. Seems like he did nothing special to achieve great gas mileage. He even encountered a considerable traffic delay. My impression is that his Pilot got what it got (which to me is remarkable) without any special effort on his part (which to me is even more remarkable).
David
It would depend on the speed limit where he was driving. Highway speed limits where I live are mostly 55, though traffic generally moves at 65 to 75. If he went 65 in zones where the speed limit is higher than 65, then that would be a special effort. Otherwise, I don't think so, cruise control or not.
But I agree with Kip...Pilots are capable of relative good mileage for their size and it doesn't take extreme efforts to achieve good gasoline mileage. On somewhat more hilly trips I usually get around 25-26MPG when fully loaded( wife, dog, and much cargo). My lease on this vehicle is coming to an end in September and I am torn about what to do. The lease buy out price is a little higher than the market value...but this has been a first rate vehicle. I think if I lease another one I will go for the 2WD.
Enjoy whatever you get next. Your lease expiration in September might be good timing to get a great deal on a 2007 Pilot, the last of the first generation Pilot. I think the 2008 model, similar in looks to the new MDX, will be coming out around then. Depending on where you live, a 2WD Pilot may make a lot of sense. Compare it to the 4WD on a lease. When I leased mine, the residual value percentage was higher for the 4WD, as a result of which I in effect got 4WD for free.
From the description of that drive the terrain is not conducive to the best mileage, as flat ground would be.
gmwalters was willing to run at mostly 65 instead instead of 70-80, and easy on the AC!
Kip
You are kidding , Right?
You see David, everyone doesn't "NEED" to be out front or passing most cars. Everyone doesn't "NEED" to run 75-80 at every given opportunity.
People willing to drive with mileage in mind will "generally" get better mileage than those that don't under similar driving conditions.
Seems to me that folks like yourself are looking for confirmation that it is the car and not the driver that is the problem with poor mileage. To a degree you are correct. The Pilot is not going to get the same mileage as a sedan with similar power. Someone said the Pilot has the aerodynamics of a Brick. Compared to sedans that is accurate. So do most SUV type vehicles.
My point is, that if driven with mileage in mind the Pilot will return good mileage or even superior mileage compared to other SUVs.
You got in my face directly and through another poster when I said the guy reporting to drive at 60 or 65 mpg, and getting 22 mpg was not good. Again you are attempting to confirm the Pilots tendency to get poor mileage. Misery loves company!
Sure there are Pilots that have problems, other than the driver, that will not achieve reasonable mileage. Those need to be "FIXED"!
I feel there are basically 2 types of people that visit this forum.
One is those that are getting better mileage than is mostly being reported here. They are happy with their mileage and move on.
The second group gets poor mileage. Some truly have car problems. Some are driving in impossible mileage conditions, like 5 miles and 30 minutes to work, and those that like to "FEEL" the power. This is a place where they feel comfortable that it isn't only their car. Truth be known they would get below average mileage with any SUV they drive that is the size and weight of the Pilot.
It is much easier to argue with success than to be "WILLING" to try to actually achieve that success. Especially when you can find others to agree with you.
As I have stated several times. My 03 Pilot will return below 20 MPG (18) if driven at 80 MPH with 4 people aboard. At 65-70 It will return 26 +/- mpg with the same load. At 65 mph with 2 people it will get 27-28 mpg.
Sorry you can't see a pattern there!
Kip
No joke. Just once again, a totally different viewpoint from your own. Basically the poster mostly drove at the speed limit (65), which is not slow (where I live it is mostly 55). Nothing exceptional in my view, except for his mpg.
Even when I have tried to max my mpg by driving 65 - 70 and keeping rpm below 3,000, my Pilot still only returned more than 20mpg ONE time. So excuse me if I am skeptical, just as the last poster is (made me laugh - 28mpg Pilot v. 30mpg Tahoe), when you and VERY FEW OTHERS post mpg in the high 20s. You would come to know how we feel if someone posted say 35mpg, way better than you are getting. Wouldn't you have a hard time believing it? I bet you would. Would you think that there is necessarily something wrong with your Pilot and/or your way of driving? I bet you wouldn't.
Based on my own personal experience with the Pilot and based on the totality of the posts in this forum, I contend that there may be something wrong (but wrong in a good way!) with your Pilot and a few others to get such fantastic mpg. Maybe you and a few other folks just got lucky. Maybe you won the Pilot mpg lottery.
I refuse to believe that there is something wrong with me or my Pilot just because I cannot come close to replicating your numbers (or good fortune, I should say) even when I try. Based on the totality of the posts in this forum, it is clear that my results are absolutely mainstream (par for the course, as us golfers like to say). Although you like to put me and other mainstreamers on the defensive, it is really you that has more to be defensive about (yet more to be happy about too).
David
David,
Maybe so! Just makes me wonder why, when I drive more aggressive, I get less mileage than you. :confuse:
"Basically the poster mostly drove at the speed limit (65), which is not slow (where I live it is mostly 55). Nothing exceptional in my view, except for his mpg."
By your own admission, in other posts, you tend to drive 10-25 mph over the speed limit, drive the way you wish and therefore get the mileage you deserve. When I drive that way, my mileage is bad also. Try driving the posted speed limits with a truly light foot and you will see better mileage.
Whenever I make a comment to another poster and you are determined to say something to the contrary you shouldn't be surprised to receive the like!
So be it! You probably never will get decent mileage! Congratulations you win!
Kip
You keep painting me as an aggressive driver who gets the poor mpg I deserve.
But you are missing a key point, which is when I have tried to get good gas mileage (i.e., keep it at 65 - 70 and under 3,000 rpm when passing and coming up to speed), I STILL get nowhere near what you get.
So consider yourself lucky.
David
My 07 4WD has 4,600 miles on it. I have been getting 19 mpg on my normal commute and my mileage is getting better every fill-up. A couple tanks ago, I drove the normal commute a little more energetic than normal and got 18 mpg on that tank.
I just returned from a 283 mile trip down the valley and finally exceeded the EPA rating and got 22.2 mpg. This trip was flat, cruise on as much as possible and exclusively highway. Had the AC on during the return trip. I set the cruise to 1 mph above the speed limit, which was 70 most of the way and 65 where it wasn't 70. Maybe hit 75 mph briefly during on ramp entry. I had to stay in the right lane so that I wouldn't get run over by most of the traffic, but at least I never got passed by a big-rig.
I expect my mileage to get better. Still, I don't think this machine will get the mileage of the 04 Pilots. I have a 04 Odyssey which returned 28 mpg during a similar trip. The 04 transmission just acts, feels, and revs different. When cruising at 70 mph in the Pilot vs the Odyssey, the Pilot engine is not as relaxed. It does stay in overdrive on the small rises though. All-in-all, I am not dissapointed.
Kip, you have to test drive a new Pilot just to get a feeling of the transmission. I sure hope they upgrade to a six speed when they redesign it. I brought-up all this transmission stuff because of the way the Pilot felt versus the Ody.
Joe
David, You painted yourself an aggressive driver. I simply agree with you. Let us not forget your famous words!
"Typically exceed speed limits by 10 to 25 mpg. Get up to speed quickly."
And equally as good! When you had a weak moment!
"I have now confirmed for myself the potential for this thing to be something other than a gas-guzzling beast. Problem is, I don't like to drive that way. I like to get up to speed quickly and then I like to drive above the speed limit. Then I get what I deserve? Less than 17mpg."
Seems that every time you point your finger at me, you point 3 back at yourself.
As I said above: Congratulations, You win!
You drive for poor mileage and you get it.
Kip
I could find the Tahoe thread.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f0e0cf7/0
Your mileage is getting better it seems! Don't know if this means anything or not but, FWIW I use Pennsoil Semi Synthetic. Have a bug deflector and window shades, running boards, and run the Goodyear Integras at 34 front and rear.
What type of terrain going and coming was the trip? What kind of load? What is your RPM at 70.
Seems that every time I think about driving an '07 something comes up. Will try to do that soon. Maybe next time the 03 oil gets changed.
The Yukon Denali folks have their problems too! Thanks!
Kip
I typically run my Bridgestones Duelers really firm at 40 psi front and 38 rear. Their max psi is 44. Having spent all those years working in a service station, I have a good feeling of how tires wear vs the psi rating and I prefer to get my use out of everything. I also like a firm ride, which was a factor in why I bought the Pilot.
I plan on running full synthetic in the Odyssey and the Pilot once they exceed their warranty period and I start changing it myself (I am trying to keep good relations with the dealer but he doesn't like the fact that I just get oil changes instead of the recommended mileage $ervice$)
I couldn't help but look at the Yukon posts since someone blurted something in this thread. The best I saw was 17, the worst was 6.4. My old pickup gets 14-16 rain or shine, highway or city, WFO or gentle throttle and it is 40-year-old technology.
I still can't believe how much fun the Pilot is to drive and how well it gets up and moves.
Joe
That particular route, load, tire pressure and your apparent driving style would surely dictate higher mileage. Especially since you have gotten 28 with the Odyssey under similar conditions.
As I recall you did the ILP! Is that correct?
I realize that road mile markers are off a bit, but I have found them to be reasonably accurate over a ten mile stretch or so. Have you checked your odometer against them. Your speedometer against a GPS?
Are you burning straight gas (87 octane) or is it Ethanol?
Sorry to be so nosey. You just seem to be such a gentle soul, and it truly bothers me that your particular car is doing this! We gotta FIX this thing JOE! :confuse:
Our dealer uses that PennsOil Semi Synthetic. Or so they say! I've been told to stay away from the synthetics until an engine is completely broken in. Dealer said that 3750 miles is enough to start using it. When the warranty expires, will probably go to full synthetic.
10-4 on the Tahoe thing. I visited the Highlander forum, and they seem to have the same pleasures and problems as us.
Regards,
Kip
"Two types of California Cleaner Burning Gasoline (CBG) used year-round, also referred to as CARB. California CBG is formulated to meet the most stringent gasoline standard in the United States, including very low RVP (vapor pressure) and reduced levels of sulfur, benzene, and other chemicals. Gasoline sold in areas also subject to the federal RFG standard must contain an oxygenate, identified as “RFG/CA CBG.”"
I don't really know what effects the additives have on mpg and can't seem to find any specific info on the recipe. I only use Chevron gas. (Guess which service station I worked at) 87 octane
It took around 15,000 miles on the Odyssey before the engine broke-in and the mileage stopped improving. That thing will still only get 15-17 around town for my wife.
Joe
I've heard that even 10% ethanol can affect mileage in a negative way. All that "Stuff" that California requires could also make a difference. There are a couple of things you might want to try.
Since gas formulas may have changed for hot weather, an ILP might help. Another would be to gas up out of state if you take a trip and can ease over the line with a near empty tank.
Kip
I gotta hand it to ya - - you are the master of the quote game.
I feel as though I'm wasting my breath (err, make that keystrokes) explaining myself to you, but here's my response.
Let me, once again, try to put those two quotes into context for you.
QUOTE 1. As I have explained repeatedly, highway speed limits where I live are mostly 55mph. Yes, I typically exceed the speed limit by 10 to 25, but that makes my normal speed the same 65 to 70 that most folks report in at, and that makes my TOP speed the 80mph you still seem to think I regularly drive at. When I reach 80, I slow right down.
QUOTE 2. Every once in a while a last place team beats a first place team. When it happens, you take your hat off to them and say good game. In what you refer to as "a weak moment," I've given a rare mpg compliment to my Pilot.
David
Remember quite a few posts ago I discussed Newton and his law of motion. The key to highway efficiency at any given speed is to maintain that velocity. (post #343 & 351) This led to the discuusion of cruise control and F=m(a) and friction......
What was the BEST mpg you have ever achieved?
Joe
My best tank was 21.4. My second best was 19.9. Nothing else even close. Both were mostly highway (my best more so than my second best) and both were with some effort on my part to achieve better mpg. I kept down my speed and didn't let it rev beyond 3,000.
What has been lost on Kip is that while at first I just drove my Pilot normally (for me) and got bad mpg, there came I time when I started making an effort to do better. And I have done better, though still not in the same ballpark as Kip and other high-20s posters driving 65 - 70.
My overall lifetime mpg is exactly 17mpg over 8,000 miles. There's a lot of highway driving in there, but mostly just stretches of 5 to 20 miles.
Mostly what we hear about in this forum are trips where someone gets this or that depending on his speed and load. I can't really compare my mpg to that because I rarely take "trips." Seems trips at a steady not too high speed is the key to getting fantastic mpg from a Pilot (or any vehicle for that matter, I suppose). I rarely take trips, so . . . But having said that, with the exceptions of Hondas big boys (Pilot and Odyssey), my family has never had a problem driving our respective normal ways and achieving overall mpg around the mid-point of the EPA city/highway ratings (and this includes other Hondas such as CRV, Accord and Civic). In the case of my Pilot, my overall mpg is the same as the EPA city rating. A bit of a bummer, but about what I expected from reading this forum before leasing a Pilot.
David
David,
Well "Thank ya, Thank Ya very much" !
It is a sad time indeed when dragging up quotes is the only way to keep things in proper perspective.
In my day and age, deals were made with a hand shake, and a man's words meant something. They took responsibility for their words and their actions. Too bad that is not always still true! Now it is more like, "I didn't say that... Uh..Oh...Uh... well, that isn't what I meant"!
You are the one that said you are not willing to alter your driving style and therefore deserve the mileage you get.(Paraphrased) You said you like to get up to speed fast, you prefer to not ride in the right lane, and you drive 10-25 mph over the speed limit (also Paraphrased). These are the things that separate you, and people that drive like you, from someone that gets better mileage.
Whether you believe it or not, if you drive 35 MPH in that 35 mph posted speed limit, with a light foot, you will get better mileage than driving 45-60 (10-25 over). Getting up to speed fast burns more fuel than using a lighter foot. And being determined to not be in that RH lane puts you in a position and possibly a mindset to be running faster and using a heavier foot. (Gotta pass all these slow pokes driving the speed limit!)
You also said you are convinced the Pilot is NOT a gas guzzling beast, and because of you driving style you get what you deserve. That we agree on!
Some Pilots get better mileage than others under similar driving conditions. You say something is wrong with mine (in a good way) because of it's better than average mileage. Yet when I drive aggressively, run the AC full tilt, leave the cruise set, and stay out of that RH lane, my mileage drops to 18-20 mpg on that trip of basically pure highway. What went terribly wrong was me. Not the car. Under those conditions I get worse mileage than others have reported. Apparently I still have the ability to drive more aggressively than they do!
Could be that they would get considerably better mileage with a different approach in driving style.
You have said that both your Oddy and Pilot get below EPA estimates. You blame the Pilot's gearing. What was the problem with the Oddy?
On the other hand Joe has gotten 28 mpg out of his Oddy on that route when driving conservatively. Yet his Pilot won't come close. There is something wrong with that car. Others have reported about the same mileage he is getting, but they are running faster, using the AC more, heavier loads, and worse terrain.
Truth be known, I'm probably more concerned with Joe's mileage than he is. He is too nice a guy to have this happen, and I want it to stop!
Regards,
Kip
Another short reply to a long-winded post.
As mentioned in my reply to Joe, what has been totally lost on you is that I have made an effort to change the way I drive my Pilot in order to get better mpg. My quotes which you get so much mileage out of (no pun intended) are from an earlier time when I just drove my Pilot in my normal way and got a correspondingly poor mpg for it. After getting some ideas from this forum, I experimented with some things. I did see some improvement (encouraging), though I realize that me and my Pilot still cannot come close to replicating numbers posted by you and a few others (discouraging).
(While Joe seems pleased with his Ody's highway mpg, he does not seem to be pleased with his Ody's overall mpg, which was exactly my experience.)
By the way, what is your overall lifetime mpg? I don't recall you ever posting that information. Instead you just repeatedly tell us what mpg you get on a certain trip depending on speeed and load. You've told us the good and the bad. Now tell us the ugly.
David
Without looking it up it seems you said something about a "half as-ed" effort. Maybe that wasn't you!
You said "My overall lifetime mpg is exactly 17mpg over 8,000 miles. There's a lot of highway driving in there, but mostly just stretches of 5 to 20 miles."
These are my MPG figures for this past year from 5/17/06: 19.4 - 18.9 - 17.9 - 17.5 - 18.9 - 20.0 - 19.2 - 20.2 - 18.0 - 19.4 - 21.3 - 17.5 - 18.9 - 17.2 - 17.0 - 18.9 - 17.3 - 26.1 - 25.9 - and 19.8 on 06/06/07...
That figures to 19.5 mpg overall. You are getting 17 mpg overall with a more aggressive driving style. Seems to me that in the overall scheme of things you have nothing to be complaining about. Seems the biggest difference is the pure highway mileage. My above figure of 26.1 mpg was with 4 people and luggage at 65+/- MPH. The 25.9 mpg was the same load on the return trip at 70+/- mph.
Previous years might be 1 MPG more just from "Looking" at it.
I sincerely believe that if you drove that same 700+ mile round trip at the same speeds, with a light foot, while using AC and cruise sparingly, you would get near the same mileage +/- !
Kip
To answer your question. Here are the fill up numbers from dealer fill up 01/03/03 thru 4/28/06. You already have the numbers from 5/17/06 to present.
16.1 - 20.0 - 20.4 - 19.8 - 22.4 - 20.8 - 25.4 - 22.9 - 24.2 - 25.7 - 23.6 - 20.6 23.2 - 28.9 - 26.2 - 21.3 - 30.2 - 27.6 - 20.6 - 20.6 - 16.2 - 19.2 - 20.1 - 20.3 - 20.0 - 17.9 - 18.6 - 17.3 - 21.5 - 20.0
21.1 - 18.9 - 20.4 - 20.7 - 17.9 - 16.9 - 21.4 - 17.1 18.6 - 23.9 - 20.7 - 25.7 - 17.5 - (16.3 17.3 17.5) 18.5 - 26.8 - 26.2 - 25.0 - 17.7 - 17.4 - 17.7 19.5 - 18.4 - 28.7 - 19.2 - 16.5 - 18.0 - 18.7
17.5 - 17.5 - 18.3 - 18.4 - 17.5 - 27.9
Somewhere in that mess are some 3-4 mpg lower than average mileage where trips were involved. That was after I had disconnected the battery. Later did an ILP which brought the mileage back up. I'm thinking it was the ones in Parentheses () but not sure. Also note we did more long trips back then than now! The highlighted ones are 80+ with cruise and full AC vs 65 mph very little cruise or AC.
Kip
Now we're getting somewhere. Your mpg for the past year is about 19.5, whereas my lifetime mpg is 17.0. Your Pilot is well broken in. My Pilot is still fairly new. Your overall mpg includes far more long highway trips than mine. My driving style is harder than yours. My Pilot revs higher than yours. Finally it appears that our Pilots may be two peas from the same pod after all.
The half-assed attempt quote is properly attributable to me. However, it related to my first time changing my style to see the affect on mpg. Since then, I have tried harder.
If it wasn't for those high-mpg trips you take which raise your overall mpg, you might also be a not so proud member of the 17 club (well, OK, maybe 18.5 in your case). The gap has narrowed considerably and the difference can now be rationalized in several respects as mentioned above. I'm glad I asked about your overall mpg. I feel so much better now.
David
I agree now and did also in my "LONG WINDED" post 502!
If you would set an hour or so aside to actually READ each of my post.....!
Kip