Ford Freestyle Maintenance and Repair

stever

Last month I learned that we drive at higher elevations; altitude is for planes. :shades:

Some explanations for higher mpg at higher elevation:

tidester, "SUV gas mileage - Feel free to participate" #908, 15 Oct 2005 8:35 pm

Steve, Host

qx56

My 2005 Freestyle makes a loud metal sound when turning in the garage to the left. It is a shape metal sound. I have taken it to the Ford and the replaced a bracket and it still make this wierd sound. It isnt every time I turn in the garage. It dosnt make the sound when just making a simple turn.

coldcranker

From a Tidester post elsewhere: "The most commonly proposed explanations for better mileage at higher elevation are (a) differences in blend or composition of the gasoline, (b) reduced aerodynamic drag, (c) driver's propensity to drive slower and (d) reduced proportion of city driving versus highway."

I had thought of the "reduced aero drag" one before, and I just thought of another one that is related to your (a) above. At higher altitude, if you are running on gasoline you got at lower altitude, you may be running a higher octane than you need. Higher octane (for high altitudes) means the engine computer will advance the timing slightly, improving gas mileage a bit. Also, the use of ethanol or MTBE in gas does reduce gas mileage, so maybe the mountain gas doesn't have those things, as you pointed out by your (a) above. However, I'd think the volumetric efficiency loss would overcome the other effects, meaning you get less mpg at higher altitudes.

In summary:
(1) Higher octane increases mpg (ignition advances). A '87' octane looks like higher octane at higher altitudes to an engine.
(2) Air drag is about 3% less at Denver's 5,200 ft vs. the beach.
(3) High alitudes reduce volumetric efficiency, reducing gas mileage.
(4) Ethanol or MTBE reduces mpg vs. using 100% gas.
(5) Other factors are huge & often bury all the above.

tidester

However, I'd think the volumetric efficiency loss would overcome the other effects, meaning you get less mpg at higher altitudes.

One would think so but the discussion arose precisely because so many people had been reporting improved gasoline mileage at higher elevations. Therefore, I only mentioned a few factors that would tend to improve mileage.

tidester, host

rick2456

Took it to the dealer and had to argue with him as to whether or not the vibration was severe enough for them to do the balance and alignment. Finally, they agreed to do it and both the balance and alignment were off. Especially toe on the alignment which is what I suspected due to the poor tracking. The vehicle runs smooth at highway speeds, I just don't think it should have required 3 trips to the dealer(TeamFord-Marietta, GA) to fix something that should have been taken care of prior to delivery. You can bet I will be writing a letter to Ford and the service manager.

rick2456

One would think cars at high altitudes would get poor gas mileage due to the reduced density of the air. Less o2 per unit volume of air means less power. Turbo chargers and superchargers compress the air to make it more dense and give the engine more power. On the other hand, if the air is less dense at higher altitudes, it doesn't take as much power to push through the air, especially at highway speeds. Thus, that may be an explanation for some getting better MPG at higher altitudes.

rick2456

The dealer did say if I wanted a spare key, the key would cost $35 and programing $90. But your post seems to say that if you have a current key, you can get it programed for less? Where at if I may ask? Thanks.

rick2456

Sorry to hear that. One thing I am very pleased about is the acceleration. This vehicle (2005 SEL AWD) freaking hauls butt when I punch it. Some cars seem to be made so as all the parts work together very well, and others are lemons. So far, so good on my vehicle.

nibyak

I believe that most people do realize that the Motorcraft 5W-20 is a synthetic blend and not a full synthetic. It is good oil. I drive about 1000 miles per week with my 2006 Freestyle. If I changed my oil every 3000 miles it would be about 17 times per year. Since the Freestyle came with a free 25,000-mile service plan from Ford (at least in January it did), I am letting Ford do my first 5 oil changes. After that I'll use the same oil and the Purolator Plus filter or the Motorcraft filter (which ever they have in stock) every 5K miles. I only plan to keep the car for about 3 years at which time it will be worth zip with over 150K miles. I wouldn't push the OCI to 7500 even with full synthetic for warranty reasons, but I really don't think it will hurt the engine. My old 93 Honda had its oil changed every 7500 per Hondas directions with plain old non-synthetic Dino oil and never had a problem. Many people out there like to change their oil with synthetics, some even send a sample out for analysis. There's nothing wrong with that, but I personally don't think it's worth it for an every day driver $30K car. Now if I had a Ferrari or some other exotic, or a fleet of over-the-road trucks maybe, but not for my Ford station wagon. I did buy the 3 year 100K mile ESP, but that was mostly because I don't trust the CVT. I like the CVT a lot, I just don't know enough about it to trust it yet. So far 10K miles and no problems.

bruneau1

I am glad it worked out. These days you have to fight for what you get. Many times alignment is thrown off by poor shipping practices. If I get flack from a service advisor, I go straight to the manager. Good luck.

bruneau1

There is a TSB on this item. Ask your dealer to look it up.

stevedebi

"You are comparing apples to oranges. High altitude driving does NOT create better gas mileage. "

I don't understand how driving the same type (Highway) with the same vehicle (2003 CR-V) at two different elevations constitutes "Apples to Oranges". I think that the only thing that was different was the elevation.

It is most likely caused by the engine CPU programming, as I said before, some "unintended consequence" of the CPU adjusting to the need for more air at higher elevations.

stevedebi

" (1) Higher octane increases mpg (ignition advances). A '87' octane looks like higher octane at higher altitudes to an engine."

Only true if the engine is programmed to take advantage of this feature. Some vehicles are, some are not. The FS, for example, says to use only 87 octane. My 2003 CR-V had warnings not to use higher octane than 87.

" (4) Ethanol or MTBE reduces mpg vs. using 100% gas. "

The gas in NM is Ethanol, the gas in CA had MTBE (at the time, phased out now).

stevedebi

"The dealer did say if I wanted a spare key, the key would cost $35 and programing $90. But your post seems to say that if you have a current key, you can get it programed for less? Where at if I may ask? Thanks."

I bought mine on E-bay (about $20). Once you have the spare, take it to a key shop and they will cut it to match your current keys (about $3). Then go to your owners manual, page 102, titled "Programming Spare Keys". The process takes about 30 seconds. You can program up to 8 keys for the FS.

NOTE: You must have two working keys in order to program a third key, otherwise it must be done by the dealer.

You can also buy an extra remote on E-bay.

Make sure that the e-bay listing specifically says it is for a Freestyle.

stevedebi

"Sorry to hear that. One thing I am very pleased about is the acceleration. This vehicle (2005 SEL AWD) freaking hauls butt when I punch it."

Just out of curiosity, what is your MPG? I don't "punch" my FS...

coldcranker

"Only true if the engine is programmed to take advantage of this feature."

Don't most cars these days have knock sensors? I'm not certain our Freestyle does (probably does). A knock sensor will sense detonation (knock) and retard the timing, which hurts gas mileage. High altitudes will cause timing advance, helping gas mileage.

In Colorado, we see 10% ethanol gasoline mixtures. That alone drops gas mileage by about 1%.

tacomaguy

My wife backed out of the garage and hit the passenger side mirror. (The Freestyle seems a LOT wider than a lot of cars.) Anyway, the impact cracked the glass mirror but I was able to polish-out the paint scratches on the outside of the mirror housing. The glass mirror just clips in to the interior of the housing so you probably cracked on of those little clips. Visit your Ford dealer and have them take the mirror out. It should just pop out. My LTD Freestyle has power mirrors so there is a wire attached, too. Once you have the glass part out, you can determine what is causing the looseness.

coldcranker

It may very well be that higher altitudes do get us better mpg! I may be wrong when I said it didn't. Here's the calculation: The air in Denver is 15% less dense than the air on the beach at LA (sea level). And, 60% of gas consumption at highway speeds is due to air drag. Therefore, you get an increase in mpg (due to less air drag) of 9%, since drag is linear with air density. The advanced timing probably picks up another 2% (knock sensor required), so now were at 12%. The higher pumping losses (lower volumetric efficiency) bring it back down about 10% or so. Therefore, you may see a slight gain in mpg at highway speeds of about 2%. I had forgotten the air was actually 15% thinner in Denver! I was thinking it was about 5% thinner until I looked it up.

saabturboid

How do I find out what the access number is that is programmed for the door mounted number pad on our '05 Freestyle SEL? We bought the car used at a non-Ford dealer and they couldn't tell us. I thought a Ford dealer could tell us based on the VIN but when I took the car in for an oil change and requested the number they said it would be $90 to scan the computer. Yikes! There has to be a better way. Any recommendations?

barnstormer64

The only way I know (other than to find the code from the original owner) is to have the scan done by the dealer.

vwcarcrazy

link title
This is the link to the Ford owners home page. You can sign up your vehicle by filling out the form. Once approved, you can request information on your vehicle. Every Ford with a factory keyless entry has a code programmed at the factory. You can add additional codes, but the factory code is "hard programmed" and cannot removed. All other codes that you (or the previous owner) entered can be erased and set back to "factory". The code is given to the new Freestyle owner on a card in the delivery information. Since yours appears to be missing the card with the code, the friendly folks at Ford Central should be able to help you retrieve it. There is also an 800 number to call. Be persuasive. Also, you might check with another Ford dealer who wants your business more. Many will do this for "free" to get your business. Or go back to the dealer you talked to, and ask to speak to a manager or the owner. You might get a cheaper result. Example - some dealers charge to program new keys, something that you can do yourself with instructions in the owner's manual. When I lost one of my keys and only had one (the dealer had to program it then), my dealer programmed the new key (the key itself cost $32) for "free". Took them 2 minutes. Always get an extra key and a keyless entry (cheap on eBay) because you need 2 of each to program yourself. Another option - contact the dealer you bought the car from (even if they are a non-Ford dealer) and push them to resolve the issue. Perhaps they also own a Ford dealer, or can make arrangements to cover the cost of retreiving the code. They should also be able to contact the previous owner in many cases for the code. You paid big bucks to this dealer, so make them make good on the problem. Best luck.

stevedebi

"Always get an extra key and a keyless entry (cheap on eBay) because you need 2 of each to program yourself."

True for the keys, but not for the transmitter. You can reprogram extra transmitters with only one. In fact, from the Owners Manual, I'd say you can program the key fobs even if you have lost all of them.

The key is a different story, and all FS owners should buy a replacement 3rd key as soon as possible to avoid paying for dealer reprogramming.

Page 95 in my 2006 owner's manual.

60hzpush

I have had my freestyle for a few months now. The check engine light has come on twice. It's code was for the canister? or something like that. i beleive the mechanic stated there was a sevice bullitin on this. Has anyone heard of this? Should i be concerned? is this car a lemon?

Jim

vwcarcrazy

You might verify that you are not 1)overfilling the gas tank when fueling - stop after the nozzel clicks off and 2) you are reinstalling the gas cap properly, threaded properly and until it "clicks". Either of these could cause the check engine light to come on. I had not seen a bulletin on this issue.

nitromax

I'd like to add to that. Make sure it clicks several times...not just once.

My RSX has the same type of system. I actually had my warning light come on one day after a fast moving cold front passed through. My guess is the extreme drop in temps caused the gas to contract enough to register a loose cap with the computer. I'm unsure what the actual cause was but tightening the cap and then cycling the car through one or two engine starts/stops reset the computer.

60hzpush

Thanks for the info, i will try it... i have tried to fill the tank after it clicks off. You never know when the price of gas is going to go up agian....

mike138

Here's the latest status on this issue.

The dealer finally found a field engineer who claimed to have seen a similar problem on a car in Maine. Replacing the mechatronic unit apparently was the answer. This part is a component of the CVT, as I understand it, and is involved in changing the CVT operation. Well, after having the car back for a couple of days, no problems. Need to wait much longer before I'm comfortable though, I once had it back for 4 days before the problem returned.

If it fails again the car is officially a lemon. They've had 3 tries to fix it. I really hope it's fixed this time!

keuper20

there is one other way.if you or a mechanic friend can locate the vsm(vehicle security module),there is a 5 digit number printed on the label on the module.this is the factory keyless entry code.ford puts these modules in different places so it may be a challenge to find.

keuper20

also, make sure you are not refueling while vehicle is running.this will also set an EVAP code(cannister).

coldcranker

Thanks for the update. Interesting problem, really. That CVT should be butter-smoothe and steady like mine. "Mechatronic" means the solenoids and other electrical actuators which control the CVT drive system. Let us know if the problem has gone away for good. We'll all be alert to this possible design weakness.

bono

I am seriously considering replacing my Explorer with a Freestyle. I'd like to get out of the SUV and into the Crossover segment. I borrowed a Freestyle last weekend and gave it a thorough shakedown. I am pleasantly surprised and pleased with the CVT; however, while stopped at an intersection at the top of a steep hill, the Freestyle began rolling backwards when I released the brake. My other vehicles hold back much better. Has anyone else experienced this? It was rather unnerving and could be a big problem, especially if someone is stopped right behind me.

rick2456

Are you sure you were not in neutral? I checked this myself on a hill and did not roll back. Good luck.

vicenac

Actually, yes. But all auto transmissions will let the vehicle go back at a certain point. There are differences between vehicles. But that's why the brake pedal in automatics is wide a squeegee. So you can hold it with your left leg while you get some juice into the engine.
My wife was parking on steep hill going down hill. She did not get it right the first time, so she had to back up. When she wanted go get back in the parking space she forgot to switch from R to D, but the car did not have any problem rolling forward in R, due to gravity. I'm glad it still works.

vicenac

I noticed noises (like from a worn out axle) when turning right at slow speeds (maneuvering in parking lots, etc). In the beginning the noises would appear only when I turned the wheel very close to the stops (end of range). But now that distance is shrinking and it starting to make the noises when turning left too. Forward and backwards.
I have a service schedule tomorrow. I will report on what the service guy says.
Also I complained (over the phone) about my 12-14 MPG and asked if they have that capability to reprogram the OBD. The tech said "yes" and then continued to say that will pull the TSB's and if that's necessary they will do it.
I am afraid that they are reluctant of doing it. Any advice on how I can push them into updating the program?

Tnx

rick2456

Around 19 in in city and 26 on the highway. And by punching it, I mean to merge with interstate traffic, etc, because for some reason, few here in Atlanta haven't a clue what "accelerate to merge" means. Nothing more dangerous than a line of cars doing 45mph, trying to merge with 75mph traffic.

coldcranker

Vicenac,

There is a TSB about the thing where the RPMs fluctuate after slowing down from 60 to about 50 mph or so. I would just tell the Ford dealer you've seen this, and that you heard there was a TSB to cover it, so they will just re-flash (load new software) on the engine computer without further speculation. The problem has been known to be hard to duplicate, so they likely won't spend the hours necessary to try to duplicate the problem.

I wonder if the CV joints (axles) haven't been out-of-spec a little, and have been creating excessive friction all this time you've been getting low MPG????? This is just the thing I suspect with low-MPG vehicles, since there must be some physical explanation for excessive fuel consumption (dragging brakes, or CV joints, or tranny, or wheel bearings, etc.

I've seen CV joints go bad on 3 cars I've owned, but never this early, so chances are they've had something rubbing together in there, causing higher drag (friction) and eating extra gas.

barnstormer64

Nothing more dangerous than a line of cars doing 45mph, trying to merge with 75mph traffic.

Well, I've seen "acceleration" lanes so short that if you really were trying to get up to 75mph before merging, and nobody let you in, you'd be wishing you'd slowed down and stopped!

Not sure if Atlanta's as bad about that as Houston is, though.

vicenac

I took my FS to service today with a full sheet of complaints, including 12 MPG, engine warming up very slow (stuck thermostat?) and steering noises.
The tech seemed to care about my MPG (this one hurts bad). He mentioned that his wife just got a Mustang GT and she gets better mileage than me!!! Thank you!

Dudes and Edmunds.com
I just saw a video (on edmunds.com) about the new Audi Q7. Not an outstanding creation, but not bad. Strange, I never heard the editor saying that the Q7 is "down on power". It gets to 60 Mph in 8.9 seconds, "a full second slower than Mercedes R class".
That means that the Q7 is significantly slower than my Freestyle and the R is just a little bit quicker. I think I saw some place that FS gets to 60 in 8 seconds.
If this is an indicator of power / weight ratio, it seems that FS has what it needs and I would like edmunds.com to remove the mention "except power" from this vehicle's overview.
If I am wrong and a 0 to 60 test does not tell the full story I would like a lesson so I do not get myself into sticky situations on the highway.

Thank you!

tidester

I would like edmunds.com to ...

Click the "Feedback" link at the bottom of this page and tell them!

tidester, host

coldcranker

Time to get drastic on the mpg problem. The Ford dealer can "flight-test" (the jargon) the car by reading data while they drive on the road. I think they usually carry a laptop computer or other capture device inside the car and read the engine data. Compare your car to another Freestyle on the fuel flow rate on the same road at the same speed.

dwtddt

NEW FS LIMITED FWD, LOOKS LIKE FORD ONLY SHOWS THE FS, IF THEY CAN'T SELL YOU ANYTHING ELSE. SO FAR GOOD MILEAGE AVG 24, VERY GOOD PICKUP, STILL LEARNING ALL THE FEATURES, HAVE NO PROBLEMS TO TALK ABOUT , GOOD READING ON THIRD KEY AND SOME OTHER ITEMS OTHERS HAVE POSTED.

tidester

Welcome aboard, DT!

I recommend turning off the CAPS LOCK on your computer. People tend to ignore messages written in ALL CAPS.

tidester, host

dwtddt

Thanks, for the CAPS info, 40 years of working on Computers.

tidester

Oh, yeah! We've come along way since FORTRAN IV and 66 - no more punch cards or 80 BAUD modems.

If automotive technology had progressed as fast as computers have in that time we could pick up that sleek new Freestyle for under a hundred dollars - and get 100s of miles to the gallon!

tidester, host

vicenac

I took my 12 MPG FS into the service dept. I apreciate the advice with the fluctuating RPM. It worked. They said they've found a TSB on it and proceeded with the fix.
They also said that they've put the computer on the car and it read 22.5 MPG.
The car is not back yet, but here are the details of the ticket so far:
53 Warranty Done CUSTOMER STATES CUSTOMER STATES POOR FUEL ECONOMY ABOUT 215 MILES PER TANK AVERAGES ABOUT 12 MPG CHECK AND ADVISE
BODY / CHASSIS / ELECTRICAL (BCE) - TEST
EEC (QUICK TEST) - DIAGNOSIS

tedberger

:confuse: FS owners... please see my message #397 regarding brake shudder when applying brakes say above 45-50 MPH. Looking at fourth attempt with dealer to resolve/dealer nor responsive and/or very interested in resolution, although customer service manager seems interested, Anyone with similar problem - must be inferior rotors and/or brake hardware. Need validation from all of you to take with me to dealer... thanks, tedberger

ps - i have the "winking/blinking" headlights w/ key and power off. normally happens when i push my expedition key fob or hit garage door opener - both items flood the fs with rf energy, which apparently "juices" the light circuit?

bruneau1

Warped rotors usually cause this, and that is a warranty item.

stevedebi

OK, how am I supposed to figure out if the FS needs oil? Every time I put the dipstick back in, when retracted the oil is all over the place, not leaving a definitive line that I can check. The stick has to travel down a curved path, and I think this is moving the oil around on the stick as it comes back out. Stupid design; there should be a more direct path to the oil pan. This is the first car I've ever had where I couldn't tell the oil level.

Any suggestions?

stever

Are you checking it cold? My Subaru oil level is hard to check and I've about given up trying to get a good reading when I fill up.

Here's one guy's technique on the OB:

leo2633, "Subaru Crew: Problems & Solutions" #6174, 22 Jan 2006 10:34 pm

Steve, Host

saabturboid

Check the oil first thing in the morning before you start the car. If you check it after the engine has been running then yes, there will be oil everywhere, but if you let it settle all night you'll get a solid level line across the dip stick.

- Chad