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Comments
The problem is, the price tag of new accord holds me back. the top model's msrp is near 30k. If I have 30k budget, I'll look for some other cars, but not accord.
Japanese is too greedy. If they didn't attack perl harbor, Korea, Taiwan and northeastern China is a part of Japan now.
I was NOT discussing worldwide sales. That is obvious. now the rest of your points were what?
I tried to supply steel to Toyota and Honda from my company in Europe because we were Toyota's largest supplier there. In the US the policy was domestic mills first, Japanese second, rest of the world need not apply. At that time 80% of all steel used in Georgetown and Marysville was from US/Canadian sources.
Careful of your facts. Steel is quite a large part of a vehicle.
Lexus Rx330? Corolla? Matrix? These are made...??
Camry: 29,707
Accord: 23,548
Sonata/Optima: 18,467 (Sonata: 14,216; Optima: 4,251)
Altima: 15,154
Fusion/Milan: 7,211 (Fusion: 5,337; Milan: 1,874)
*Camry sales include Solara coupe and convertible. Accord sales include coupe.
Or another interesting trend would be if the entire segment is up strongly.. indicating a major move toward midsize vehicles of all makes.
What was your source BTW? To be precise you sould quote the source. I saw the Toyota figures on their website but the other vehicles? Did you compile them yourself from the monthly reports today?
The Sonata may be a decent car, but overall, the company scores poorly in the dependability study.
You first said:
An earlier post was right on. The japanese companies that assemble vehicles here are only using Amercian workers to assemble their vehicles. Practically every part that goes into that vehicle is from a japanese supplier, i.e. Toyota supplies itself with parts from "American" companies it bought years ago.
Then above you said:
When Toyota began assembling the Camry in the US, one of the first things they did was buyout a good portion of the American suppliers.
Now to be clear on this these companies you said Toyota bought were American companies making parts here? But Toyota bought into them to ensure quality. So they were American companies after all. Just like the 80% of the steel used in Camry's, Corolla's, Accords, etc.
Now your original point was what again? You dont like the fact that Japanese companies own American companies?
You're right about one thing. I don't like japanese companies buying American companies in the US.
Not really. Do you know why the Japanese attacked pearl harbor? That's because they were facing tremendous resistance from the Chinese(400 million at that time). The Japanese needed lots of resources (oil, rubber, etc) to keep the war going. They had no other way but to occupy southeast asia, which was under American control. Thus, they got to attack pearl habour 1st before they could grab southeast asia.
You're right about one thing. I don't like japanese companies buying American companies in the US.
Then, Chrysler is owned by Germans and thus does not count as domestic.
Oh BTW.. in the same vein the europeans will require GM to divest itself of all it's overseas operations, oh and Ford too, oh and Mexico wants Ford to sell the Herosillo plant to it's workers.. ah fuhgedaboudit.. let's move to the country and grow our own corn for our families.
Sonata ... Accord ... Camry ... Fusion ...
That's what we're talkin' about, not Pearl Harbor, not GNP, not what GM nor Ford nor either of the other two are up to, not any of the other similar topics that have been bantered around for the last several pages.
The place for that type of conversation is our News & Views board. I'd be surprised if there is not a topic there already that addresses these things, but if there's not, anyone interested should feel free to hop over there and fire one up.
Meanwhile, let's get back to comparing the actual cars that are our subject.
Take a deep breath and repeat after me:
Sonata ... Accord ... Camry ... Fusion ...
Sonata ... Accord ... Camry ... Fusion ...
Sonata ... Accord ... Camry ... Fusion ...
:shades:
1&1a Affordability and Reliability
2&2a ( interchangeable per the buyer ) Safety and Style
3 Features
4 Economy
5 Performance
You sell Toyotas. What else are they gonna tell you.
* Ford had better beef up the safety gear on the Fusion.
* Honda is in trouble with the Accord as new, lower-priced options like the Fusion and Sonata appear.
* The V6 horsepower wars are pretty ridiculous for this class.
* Hyundai is in good shape with the Sonata, if they can change the public's perception on reliability.
* Toyota needs to keep the price of the new Camry down while keeping the quality up and improving the standard safety features. The styling is an improvement while still playing it safe.
I don't think the 07 Camry needs to be priced low for it to sell well, but it certainly can't go over $25K for a V6 loaded.
This sector isn't the economy sector (is it?).
Hyundai MUST be gaining in public acceptance. As "spyder" said, it remains to be seen who is taking the hit for this increase...Hon/Toy/Nis/Ford or other Hyundai models.
Anyway, it appears that more people are willing to consider a Hyundai Sonata and some of them are purchasing.
Sonata ... Accord ... Camry ... Fusion ...
Sonata ... Accord ... Camry ... Fusion ...
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
But, I wonder how many of those sales went to fleets. I was with my mother the other day to get a rental car and I noticed a large amount of Sonatas, Camrys and Altimas.
The Accord is as big a fleet car I don't believe.
My mother ended up getting an Accord Hybrid (06) for the weekend while her Odyssey is in the shop.
I wasn't even AWARE that the 06 Hybrid was on sale yet, but she's driving one now...she says its "nice"
Fusion had its best month ever...up infinitely!!!
Yeah, November was only the second month it was available. Is that like the first ever G6?
Car and Driver says Accord first and then the Fusion followed by the Sonata and Camry. I think Ford has a winner.
Actually I consider myself a "good car" buyer. Judging from your tone then, I guess you will be a "domestic buyer". Biased a little bit?
I actually like the Fusion a lot. It has more of the European Ford flavor to it, and I like that.
250,000 annual sales is possible.
Fusion/Milan sales have a lot of upside.
What's the option code for the stability control, again?
~alpha
The media is hyping up the problems at Ford/GM and you have bought into it.. sad.
There is nothing wrong with supporting your countries economy/workforce and buying a quality built GM/Ford product..
Couldn't have said it better.
The media hype has really blown some issues out of proportion.
You also just mentioned a couple of items. Read the news, there is a lot more "hype" than just the items you mentioned.
Ford has over $19 billion in cash. The only auto company that has more is Toyota. It just doesn't sound like Ford is in trouble of going under. Yet, there are analysts and columnists who say Ford is worse off than GM. That is hype.
For a while I drove a 2002 Cadillac DTS with stabiliTrak 2.0, Traction control, ABS and all the bells and whistles. I felt the same confidence in my Contour as I felt in the Caddy.
Some Folks are never going to feel safe until their car drives it's self. What's fun will that be?
Many of the consumers lost their trust in American brands because of the poorly made cars they were producing. In contrast to that, Honda and Toyota started to make reliable cars (that got better and better over the years)That was when they started to earn the trust of Consumers. Even if they do offer a car that is equally reliable to the Japanese, will they be able to force the consumers to make a change back?
Stability control results in 41% fewer crashes.
The value of stability control is not that it would be needed every minute we drive. It's there to help with maybe that one tricky situation where the presence of that feature can mean the difference between an accident or just an elevated-pulse moment--just like ABS, or air bags.
Let them go into bankruptcy. Reorganize into a more streamlined business and shed some of this union legacy nonsense. Maybe trucks should be their only business.
My point is, be careful of believing everything these studies claims. First, most of the vehicles that have stability control to date have been high center of gravity vehicles, more prone to rollover and perhaps other accidents as well, due to the nature of the vehicle and driver. Stability control will have more impact on accident reduction with these vehicles.
Additionally, the demographics of the drivers who choose a vehicle equipped with stability control may be safety conscious people who would be less involved in accidents anyways.
Stability control likely has much less impact on reducing accidents in sedans than SUV's, trucks and minivans, so the actual accident reductions, once more vehicles are so equipped will not be so dramatic. It is a pretty small sample of vehicles on the road to date that have stability control, so making widespread claims is premature.
Right on !
Let's just take one rarely thought of advantage.
Corporate giving.
Yes Toy, etc give, but no where near the levels of GM and Ford - particularly as a percent of profits.
Even with their well documented financial problems, these companies are giving real dollars to help Americans of every type.
A little patriotism has manifold benefits.
So if I can choose a car that offers me this feature (standard, even) that reduces my risk of an accident by 35% and a fatal accident by 30%, or one that costs about the same or a little more and doesn't even offer this feature, which would I prefer? Easy decision, for me, assuming the rest of the car meets my needs.