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Anyway, since in three major comparos (Edmunds.com, MT, C/D) the Sonata beat the Camry, and in two of them the Fusion beat the Sonata and Camry, that indicates some widespread opinion that the Sonata and Fusion are competitive in this group, at this time. When the '07 Camry debuts, we'll see how that changes.
I don't want us to get all hung up in the name here - if anyone wants to create another comparo, as backy said, it's easy enough to do.
I honestly don't remember saying we should limit this to four cars. What I remember is that a bunch of different comparos sprung up within a week or so matching up two or three of these four vehicles, so I added the Fusion to this title and moved them all here. At that point, this one was well underway comparing the other three.
I think this discussion should remain as it is and, like I said, a new one can be made.
Edit: I see backy said similar things while I was composing my post ... I was responding to the same post he replied to.
To me, the Altima is the one that should be added, since it is a direct competitor for the others. But, the Impala is in the next class up, vs. the Ford 500, Chrysler 300, etc. Much larger, and no 4 cyl. version.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
~alpha
Why did you address that to me? I never said any such thing.
:confuse:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
This goes to my main contention that the bulk of the midsized 'appliance' vehicles are mainly 4c for their affordability and economy. Performance in this segment?? Little or no interest to 90+% of the buyers.
'Turn on everyday, get me where I'm going, and dont't cost me anything extra.'
While performance in this segment by no means is a leader in terms of importance to buyer, I certainly think that its a factor to greater than 10%. As car geek, I lost credibility with a few friends/relatives to whom I directed the Gen 4 Camry 4 cylinder/4A.... all have told me they wouldnt buy a Camry without the V6 ever again. Anecdotal yes, I understand, but you have your perceptions as a salesperson and I can have mine as a consumer.
And again, nationally, Accords and Camrys are around 20% in V6 volume ratio for their current generations.
~alpha
Current Hyundai Rebates
I agree that the Altima and Mazda 6 should be in a comparo with Camry and Accord.
Camry and Accord are always benchmarked and top the sales charts; Fusion and Sonata are the latest and greatest competitors.
~alpha
What does it being a free country have to do with logical grouping of vehicles?
~alpha
There is no need to argue about something like this. The subject vehicles here are defined and they are not going to be changed. Anyone is free to start up another comparo if this one doesn't suit.
Asking folks to get back on topic is here is getting a little old ...
I see them all the time as if sales keep going the way they are you will see more and more.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
In another 5 or 6 years, as Sonata sales continue to improve, I think we'll see a proportional increase of Sonata's vs Accord & Camry on the road. Sonata won't overtake them overnight, but is increasing relatively and should continue to do so given the quality and reliability of recent model years.
Maybe. But with new models of the Camry and soon after Accord and Altima on the horizon the Sonata will encounter the return serve of the Japanese powerhouse.
Which is a good for consumers.
Turning this discussion into a place to debate what should be debated isn't gonna happen.
:confuse:
~alpha
PS- You are a great host, Pat.
So in order to get more competitors to these four in a discussion a new one has to be created?
OK Pat, then create a Honda Accord vs Toyota Camry vs Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan vs Hyundai Sonata vs Nissan Altima vs Mazda6 discussion for me please.
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So, I hit dealer's row today (while out shopping for my wife's Xmas present)
THe Accord EX-L does have nice seats. Power was off, but as I remembered, they are roomy and well shaped, plus they adjust nicely (from past experience. A solid B+/A-.
FInally sat in a Sonata. Interior was OK, but not as nice as I expected. The seats, though, were weird. Very soft/spongy, felt like I was sitting on a pillow. Sank right in. The shape wasn't too bad (these were leather), but they didn't feel like theygave any support. I reallywonder how they would be on a long drive. Maybe a C, +/- depending on how they felt after an hour.
Actaully, the Camry seats to me are similar. Too soft and spongy, with no support and a too short cushion. Fair at best. Another gentlemans C
The Fushion has nice seats. Big bottom cushion, good tilt, comfy but with nice support. On par with the Accord, but I have to hold them to a B+ due to the manual back rest adjustment (what a dumb idea).
Actually, the best seats of the day were in a TSX. they are (for my shape at least) a solid A. Fit like a glove, and can be adjusted just right.
So, it is surprising that there is such a wide variation between the models. It can't cost more to make a well designed, comfy seat, can it?
Oh, and the worst sit was a new Civic. Hit me in all the wrong places, and the lumbar bulge was a deal breaker. TOo bad, since it is a slick package otherwise, and a eal alternative to the big 4 (veering back to the topic here)..
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
/direct/view/.ef733f6
I know what you're saying about the Sonata drivers seat. Wouldn't call it poor, but the slide off seat bottom bugged me the whole test drive and probably tainted the overall feedback the car was offering me.
Accord does a great drivers seat. I'd wager the new Camry will have sportier seats. Can't wait to check it out. I'm gettin ansey about replacing my Accord, which has been rock solid BTW.
I don't think I can hold out a year for a Sonata 'reseat'.
than once, had major problems. Luckily, most were
covered under the warranty. My sister has an Elantra,
my sister-in-law has a Tiburon, I now have a Sonata.
No problems yet. Ford didn't get their various nicknames
from not making lemons. Maybe you are too young to remember
the exploding Pintos, but you must remember the
current recalls for engine fires. Unfortunately
they did nothing for my daughter when her almost
brand new Explorer was totalled by an engine fire.
How can you trust a company that says an engine fire
in a 3 month old car is not their fault?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Kinda like what Hyundai did for the unfortunate owners of Excels
The Fusion seems to be the culmination of all Ford knows about building cars, as is the Sonata for Hyundai. Their heritage matters in the car buying public's mind, and the biases for each will obviously embed themselves in the comments posted all over these boards.
I would still prefer in this order: Camry, Accord, Fusion, and Sonata. Toyota Camry has the best reputation for reliability and value.
I would still prefer in this order: Sonata or Accord or Camry and then Fusion.
Ford's reputation has not been good for many years.
for many many years before putting out some of the
worst and most dangerous pieces of junk ever to hit
the road. DO a google search on Ford lawsuits.
Then Hyundai. Would you care to wager which brings up the
most hits.