And this is after he grinded us down to a nothing deal, then threatened to sue us because he wanted a different car, and now he's asking for favors!
Grinders like this never stop and as you say go through their lives being miserable and expecting everyone to give them something for nothing. Sometimes even a mini deal is not worth the headache these people cause afterwards.
I wouldn't last long in your job. I'd get fired for telling this guy where to go and how far up to stick it.
a customer is more likely to be untruthful in a negotiation or transaction
I think that's a little over the top. First we get the "grinders are the most miserable people" assertion and now we generalize on the honesty of customers? GIve me a break!
"More likely to be untruthful?" More likely than what? The salesman who claims there's just not that much profit so you're just plain silly to haggle? And that's not to mention that the salesperson has tools to verify claims of facts whereas the customer only has the word of a salesperson concerning his or her own veracity. Did you ever consider that some of those "miserable" people might just be that way because they felt they were cheated by less than honest salespeople?
Understand that I am not taking a position. I am only pointing out the absurdity of making outrageous and unfounded generalizations.
The reason customers grind and pit dealer against dealer is because manufactures and dealers are getting very creative with their pricing, and this is the only way to figure out what the best price is. Since you are nissaninfo, here are couple examples. Recently I was pricing Nissan Altima coupe SR. According to Edmunds the spread between MSRP and invoice on the most expensive SR is $4410. That includes $1000 rebate and $500 in trunk money.
Example 1. MSRP $31990, selling price $26771, difference $5219.
Example 2 MSRP $33510, selling price $27681, difference $5829. That’s $1419 less than “dealer cost”. I don’t know about you, but $1419 is a lot of money for me and I am willing to grind a salesman for this kind of money. I owe it to my family to save as much as possible on my purchases.
Not to mention that if you finance the vehicle, you're saving that amount PLUS the interest on that amount.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
I never used the term miserable but if you notice all of the people with experience agreed with me. I also did not generalize because the first part of my sentence was "In my experience". Please re-read my post because I also mentioned that these people were not the majority.
In regards to untruhfulness if I'm selling a new car, because of industry information, consumer websites, other dealers, etc. . .it does not benefit me to lie to customers. Some people however feel as though it benefits them to lie about things like: a Dr.'s appointment they have to go to instead of another test drive appointment, lie about the condition of their trade, the "friend" that referred them that doesn't know who they are, their relationship with the owner, their recent college graduate qualifications, their credit score, the quote they said they didn't mind sharing with us but is "tweeked" just a bit, their approval rate from their own bank, etc. . .
Again, I am not talking about all customers because I like people and thats part of why I am in sales and have been for a long time even before cars. My only point was that the likelihood of being lied to as a salesperson is greater. Contrary to popular belief lying doesn't make me more money, and the risks are much higher than the potential rewards in regards to our reputation at the dealership.
On a more lighthearted note, #1 and #2 sales "lies":
Salesmen who will not believe me when I say I am only looking are #1 on the annoy-o-meter. If I say I am just looking that's what I'm doing. If they try to push it to a sale I move on and when I do buy I do not consider that dealer.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I was referring to the bad attitudes people have sometimes, even when they are asking for, and getting what they want. This is not a generalization because they reflect their thoughts in the survey scores. My stores scores in the top 93% in survey scores in the country for our brand and invariably the poorest surveys are usually from the people that paid the lowest price. Please I don't wish to argue. Just making an observation.
My only point was that the likelihood of being lied to as a salesperson is greater.
Would that would be from your personal experience, or eavesdropping on other salespeople negotiations? You may not lie, but how do you know your co-workers aren't,or salespeople at less honorable dealerships? The salespeople that frequent these boards aren't liars, but in reading many of the discussion here, and my personal experience, the lieing thing is done more often by "some" salespeople.
From the other side lies:
"Sure we have that car in stock... come on in." (got burned 4 times on that one)
"I just moved to Louisville about 8 months ago to take care of my sick mother." Then later the salesmen hands me his card that has him salesman of the year 3 years straight at this particular dealership. Man, that's low... and that ain't no lie. :sick:
to handle the complete transaction from "Hello" to "Thank you" - how can you expect the buyer to trust that same sales person to be honest and forthright?
"I will check with my manager to see if your offer is acceptable." What is the purpose of this when a knowledgeable salesman should himself know at once?
Yeah, i had the "I'm new" until we wnet on his pffice and it was filled with trophies and certificates for all sorts of sales things including GM paid trips to the Super Bowl all with this guy's name on them.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Most of the time when a customer is given a price they will only take that number and shop it to death.
We don't always know either.
I've had many a customer come to me with a number to beat that I know is impossible. They are eitehr lying or they have been lowballed.
This is where I had to be very careful.
If I told them.." That is impossible. When you go back to that store, SOMETHING is going to change" If I told them that, chances are good they wouldn't comeback and give the the satisifaction of saying (or thinking) " I told you so!"
I would usually say..." At that price, that store would be losing a lot of money. Are you sure they included everrything and have the right model in mind?"
" For that price, I would jump all ovr it. If something should change, please let me know" Sometimes I would get them back but often they would cave in, exhausted, and reward the store that lied to them"
" Oh, you wanted an automatic? My quote was for a five speed"
Or...
" Of couirse, destination is an extra 760.00 on top of the numebr I quoted you"
It's a tough business. " Thrifty" customers hell bent on not spening one penny more than they have to, as the pit dealer against dealer" and "crafty" stores lowballing customers and outright lying to get them in the door"
My down to earth, straightforward approach worked well most of the time, but I've still lost sales to stores that played the dirty tricks.
That is the part of this business I'm not going to miss!
Navigation Feature has nothing to do with anything. Links that I posted are ads for specific cars that are selling for $5219 and $5829 below MSRP. Those prices are below published invoice minus published incentives. If you look at the Fitzmall ad, the invoice for that car is $30750. Internet Price is $27681. The disclaimer says that the internet price includes $1000 cash back. The difference between invoice and the internet price is $2070 (30750 – 27681 – 1000). Where is this $2070 coming from? If I am not in a market that has dealers that publish their best prices online, how else am I going to get to this $27681 without grinding and pitting one dealer against another?
The point that I am trying to make is that manufactures are getting very creative with their bonuses and incentives to dealers that are not published anywhere, and there is no way for consumer to know what the best price a dealer is willing to sell a car for without grinding.
Why do you need to know about incentives and bonuses to get the best price? I've read dozens of posts that speak to the contrary. What does it matter how they are getting to the price you want as long as they are doing it. You said in your response your pitting dealers against each other. You should be using their own ad materials and the aggressiveness of other dealers to get your price. It doesn't require inner knowledge of their books to accomplish this goal. It sounds like you are doing your homework. You know what a regular informed consumer is supposed to know, now go get your car and be happy like your supposed to be after doing business. It seems like you have done your homework and with all your ducks in a row you should be able to get that "best price" you are searching for.
Ok, I am either not experiencing myself properly or you are missing my point. I live in very competitive market where I don’t need to pit one dealer against another. I can get to the bottom either by getting email quotes or browsing dealer sites that advertise their prices. People in smaller markets don’t have this luxury. Most dealers won’t give their best price unless the buyer grinds them or makes them beat competitor’s price. Agree?
BTW. You also said: “You should be using their own ad materials and the aggressiveness of other dealers to get your price.” That phase: “the aggressiveness of other dealers to get your price” is the definition of pitting dealers against each other.
Also, this grinding is what generates bad CSIs. Some customers, not me, are thinking: “WTF, why did I have to argue with them for two hours to get this price, when they could have agreed to it in 15 minutes”. This grinding is not pleasant for anyone including salespeople and SMs. Customers are not the only ones who have an attitude, salespeople and SMs also display attitude when they are frustrated. Unfortunately for you, customers think it’s your entire fault and punish you with bad CSI.
I'm sure that works for you but it wouldn't work with me.
I know when I can afford (which does NOT mean whenever someone can approve my credit!) to be buying. A sales guy who tries to push that button get a "no sale" from me and not just for that day.
I know you guys make your money that way but all to often it quickly becomes trying to get me to make an economically stupid move just so the sales guy can pocket his commission. No, thanks.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I'm just saying, a majority of people who say they're "just looking" are actually looking for help and to buy there and then. Buty we figure that out after a few more questions, so that those who are looking and don't want help at the time will be left alone.
But that's the reason why "just looking" responses will result ain a few questions.
Of course, the store wants to make as much as possible when they sell you a car and you want to buy it as cheaply as possible.
I can't tell you how many times I heard..." I don't like the process of going back and forth, just tell me what you'll sell the car for"
At that point, I would tell them.." O.K. let me just give you the wholesale price I sell cars to my fleet customers. I see you want to make this painless and easy"
So, I'll give them a price that is usually a few hundred dollars over our invoice price.
Does this work? Do they say.." Oh thank you, that sounds great, let's writie it up!"
Very seldom. I'll hear " Well, is that the BEST you can do?"
And I know I just gave them a number to go shop.
So, I'll ask them..." Let me write this up and you can offer whatever you like"
I'll even tell than..." I marked it up 500.00! How much of that last 500.00 do you want?
An hour later, we will agree on a very skinny deal just to put a mark on the board. Hopefully they will send referrals.
Then they get their survey..." The process took too long"
So much for a painless, easy deal and for WHAT? to "save" another 200.00??
Speaking of the process taking too long, is there some way the dealerships around here could get it in their heads that on Saturday they need more than one person working FWI?
The last two cars I bought we had the deal done in half an hour tops - probably more like 15 minutes. We then waited for hours so I could listen to the FWI spiel and get out of there.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
So, I'll ask them..." Let me write this up and you can offer whatever you like" So it wasn’t your best price after all?
Seriously, I feel your pain, but that’s the nature of the beast. If I was in a different market I would do same thing. I would shop multiple stores until they would stop talking to me, then I would know that I have reached the bottom. However, I would never punish the salesman by giving him bad CSI, because it was my choice to do that. As you saw from my example, invoice doesn’t mean anything anymore. That’s why you have to shop any number.
Oh, I got lied to all of the time to the point it made me cynical.
As a buyer I got lied to all of the time to the point I was cynical.
Some of my favorites:
"Oh that quote was for the 4 cylinder not the 6" (This after they assured me it was for the 6 cylinder).
"Oh that payment is for the 'Smart Lease" not a purchase" (After I had confirmed that their numbers were for an outright purchase).
"Oh all these cars come with 'X' option, you cannot get it without it" (yet there were at least two other cars of that exact model and trim that didn't have "X" installed on them on their lot).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It sounds like you enjoy putting yourself through a lot of pain
Yes sir, I am a masochist.
Honestly, I haven't done it in a while, but when I did do it, it wasn't a big deal. I might visit a store once, but after that it was over the phone. And usually it is not over a few bucks, on average I would save $1000 over the first store's "best price". The difference is greater when a trade-in is involved.
The surveys are the one method we buyers have of expressing an opinion. Recently I purchased a new vehicle. I got a really great deal both on price and with my trade in allowance. Also got a fine promotional interest rate. I do believe I was one who paid the lowest price. Even though I was very happy with the deal, I did not give this dealership a high score on the survey. When I entered the finance office things became quite unpleasent. The finance guy would not accept the fact that I would not buy any of the overpriced items he was trying to sell. He was belligerent and overbearing. To this day, I am disappointed that I did not simply leave. When I got the survey, I blasted this dealership as a result of this particular finance guy.
I know how long it took me to earn that $100, or $500, or $1000. If I can save that much in a matter of minutes, or an hour say, then I won't have to earn it all over again.
Why is it the dealers want customers to negotiate - it's their sales system after all - and then complain when people do it? Too funny.
Except for this last car purchase, I was "just looking" every time I bought a vehicle. I meant it - I was just looking. I wanted to see what was out there (I usually buy used) and what prices were being asked, and whether I liked the vehicle in person.
In each case, the salesperson who got the sale was one who left me alone to browse the lot til I found something that looked interesting at a price close to what I could live with. At one place, a guy followed me around while I was looking, and kept asking questions, which bugged the living daylights out of me. I left.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Have to agree with you here 100%. That salesperson lost spiff for doing a good job because the customer didn't like the finance guy. As far as walking out, tho, I've learned to walk out of the finance office, go back to the sales manager, and state my complaint right there....never had an issue at all after that. Since then, I just tell my salesperson to tell the finance guy not to play games and get me in and out. You can tell the finance guys are a little abrupt since they can't sell you anything; however, I ALWAYS give them a chance to finance my cars, giving them the absolute best rate (promos not incuded) I can get on the outside (no games, BTW...I bring printouts!) and tell them if they can beat the rate, the financing is theirs. They always have been able to give me a better rate and the dealership gets something on their spread. And my last four surveys have been positive on all counts...so, IMHO, everybody wins....killing the sales process in the survey over an aggressive finance person is in many ways like killing the server and the cook when the cashier is rude after a spectacular meal. Like you said, the wrong ones get hurt on that count.
As a side note, I smile about the statements that the worst surveys come from the people with the best deals. We used to do things free for some clients in my tax accounting office as a service, We found that they were always the ones complaining and taking up our time. Once we started charging for those same services, complaints and issues with them went waaaaay down, and we're not doing any less, or doing any different of a job....just dealing with less complaints.
I learned that lesson years ago when I was a very young Division Manager for Sears. I managed the largest Auto Center on the West Coast.
Without fail, EVERY time I did a favor for a customer it backfired and cost us money. The customers ended up unhappy in the end and we lost money.
The recent Cash for Clunkers event was a great example of that.
People thought they were entitled and I guess they were. They were ticked that they were only getting 3500.00 and not 4500.00 because their cars didn't qualify for the higher amount.
One guy blew his engine on his junker enroute to our store. He had it towed in and demanded we take it as a clunker. We couldn't. It had to run and it didn't
killing the sales process in the survey over an aggressive finance person is in many ways like killing the server and the cook when the cashier is rude after a spectacular meal. Like you said, the wrong ones get hurt on that count.
The vast majority of buyers probably are unaware of that. To most people the "server", as you say, is the salesperson and the finance person combined. Bad service by one is bad service by all. Not fair to the one who does a good job, but that's the system they work under.
If I were a salesman, I would "freak out" if the finance person cost me survey points and bonus money, by lieing or being rude to my buyer. Don't know what salespeople do under such circumstances... complain to the sales manager or general manager I suppose. :confuse:
True, the customer doesn't know the surveys affect the salesperson and not the finance person.
Still, if one finance person stands out as a problem, a good store won't put up with this for long.
With one exception every finance person we have had was excellent.
We once hired a guy who had workid in our store years ago as a salesperson. He was, by far, the best salesperosn ever. He was before my time but he was a legend and his name came up often.
He came back to us years later as an F& I person. He wesnt way over the top in pushiness. He woudn't take no for an answer. His numbers were good but he got complaints and we got some bad surveys because of him.
He had come from a high pressure store as many are.
The only reason my last two car purchases didn't get scathing surveys was because of what I've learned in here. The sales guy was OK in one and great in the other. In both cases the FWI lady was something of a pain.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
"As far as walking out, tho, I've learned to walk out of the finance office, go back to the sales manager, and state my complaint right there....never had an issue at all after that."
Sounds like a good way to do it. My saleswoman was great, service dept. was excellent, finance guy made a mistake on the numbers, which I caught, and then he corrected it.
I didn't give a perfect survey just because of the finance guy. I mentioned that reason in the comments box, so hope it didn't hurt my saleswoman.
Incidentally, I saved better than $2,000 because I was willing to drive for 45 minutes to another dealer as compared to a closer one. Well worth my time and the price of gas for the extra trip.
"Incidentally, I saved better than $2,000 because I was willing to drive for 45 minutes to another dealer as compared to a closer one. Well worth my time and the price of gas for the extra trip."
We've driven over 100 miles to another dealership for our last four cars. Every time we try to buy local (so the tax dollars go local) we get frustrated with the games and just call this other dealership. They have done us right every time. Well worth the trip. Our last purchase, I was told by a fellow Elk's Club member to just call the owner directly and tell him. I did and he turned us over to a guy who said he'd take good care of us. What a joke....
We've decided to just stick with the other dealership in the future....and it was a hard choice as we'd like the money to stay local; however, price and service make the difference and when the owner can't take care of you, you know that is what permeates throughout his organization. The other dealership is just awesome...kinda like comparing a Lexus to a Daewoo...and now my friends are starting to drive the 100 miles, too.
If you said 200.00 and not 2000.00 it would have made more sense.
I'm guessing you live in a remote area and your local dealer isn't high volume.
Some stores like to make a lot of money by selling a few cars while others are more concerned about volume and in the end they probaqbly end up about the same.
What's funny is that they are a branch of a high volume, high pressure dealership group out of Las Vegas...and they act like you are privileged to be able to buy there and if you don't, you are a bad person for wasting their time.
I wouldn't drive 100 miles to save $200 (although I'm sure there are several that would...kinda silly, tho, don't you think?) but I will for $1500 to $2000, which is what I've saved each and every time....and I tell the local guy that I can drive that 100 miles to save so what can he do for me...every time I get the same old song and dance and respectfully leave, call the other dealership, commit to a price point over the phone, then drive there.
Like I said in a previous post, I'm done with giving the local guy a chance anymore.......because they just have too much of an arrogant air about them. And, they always call about two weeks later, seeing how my search for a vehicle is going. When I tell them I did what I said and drove the 100 miles and bought the car I wanted at the price i asked them to bid against, they act like I didn't give them the chance to sell me the vehicle. It's funny now as it has happened four times, so it's pretty consistent...and I'm not a grinder at all. I should have learned my lesson the last time; however, my wife and I truly wanted our money to stay local....but it is just not to be....we'll just donate more to the local food banks and women's shelter to make up for it.
I'm guessing you spent a lot of time at your local store asking questions and driving cars, right?
Not really all that much time. Maybe an hour at one Volvo place, where I drove three different cars (XC60, XC70, and V50), maybe half an hour at the other one, where I first drove a V70.
Once I realized that I liked the V70 the best, I contacted the first store again to see if they had a car configured exactly as I wanted. There were 3 packages plus the BLIS mirrors that I wanted; I was flexible on color to a degree. The guy e-mailed back "Yes, we have the car you want, it's XXX price, come on back."
I realized from the price it would not have the three things I wanted, double-checked their inventory on-line and realized I was right, contacted him again and said "Looks like your car only has A and B, not A, B and C, is that right?" His response: "Yes, our car has everything you want except C."
Which is to say, no, it was not what I wanted.
Second dealer also did not have exactly the car I wanted, but instead of trying to look for one for me, he tried to sell me the car they had (which had A and C, but not , and then further spent time trying to tell me that I should finance with their low rate financing at full MSRP.
That was a pointless waste of time, as a) I didn't want to finance, period, and b), again, it was NOT configured as I wanted. So if it's not the right car, what difference would their financing deal have made, and why would he waste time trying to sell me a car that I didn't want at full list price? Bizarre.
I searched more dealers' inventories on line, saw a car configured as I wanted it at the dealer 45 minutes away. I contacted them, the woman who responded said "yes, it has A, B, and C, plus Sirius radio." (Which I didn't really care about, but ok.)
So I made an appointment, drove down there, liked the car, asked for the price, she gave me invoice minus $2500 right away, no nonsense, and gave me a good price for my beat-up, 10 year old Maxima. ($3,000). (Her first offer was $2500, and I asked for $3,000 and got it.)
So that was a done deal, very simple. Right car, right price, no shenanigans, except a little bit with the finance guy who rounded up to the next $100, which I corrected.
Other than that little hiccup, very smooth transaction all around.
Comments
Grinders like this never stop and as you say go through their lives being miserable and expecting everyone to give them something for nothing. Sometimes even a mini deal is not worth the headache these people cause afterwards.
I wouldn't last long in your job. I'd get fired for telling this guy where to go and how far up to stick it.
I think that's a little over the top. First we get the "grinders are the most miserable people" assertion and now we generalize on the honesty of customers? GIve me a break!
"More likely to be untruthful?" More likely than what? The salesman who claims there's just not that much profit so you're just plain silly to haggle? And that's not to mention that the salesperson has tools to verify claims of facts whereas the customer only has the word of a salesperson concerning his or her own veracity. Did you ever consider that some of those "miserable" people might just be that way because they felt they were cheated by less than honest salespeople?
Understand that I am not taking a position. I am only pointing out the absurdity of making outrageous and unfounded generalizations.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Since you are nissaninfo, here are couple examples. Recently I was pricing Nissan Altima coupe SR. According to Edmunds the spread between MSRP and invoice on the most expensive SR is $4410. That includes $1000 rebate and $500 in trunk money.
Example 1. MSRP $31990, selling price $26771, difference $5219.
Example 2 MSRP $33510, selling price $27681, difference $5829. That’s $1419 less than “dealer cost”. I don’t know about you, but $1419 is a lot of money for me and I am willing to grind a salesman for this kind of money. I owe it to my family to save as much as possible on my purchases.
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In regards to untruhfulness if I'm selling a new car, because of industry information, consumer websites, other dealers, etc. . .it does not benefit me to lie to customers. Some people however feel as though it benefits them to lie about things like: a Dr.'s appointment they have to go to instead of another test drive appointment, lie about the condition of their trade, the "friend" that referred them that doesn't know who they are, their relationship with the owner, their recent college graduate qualifications, their credit score, the quote they said they didn't mind sharing with us but is "tweeked" just a bit, their approval rate from their own bank, etc. . .
Again, I am not talking about all customers because I like people and thats part of why I am in sales and have been for a long time even before cars. My only point was that the likelihood of being lied to as a salesperson is greater. Contrary to popular belief lying doesn't make me more money, and the risks are much higher than the potential rewards in regards to our reputation at the dealership.
On a more lighthearted note, #1 and #2 sales "lies":
"We are just looking"
"We'll be right back"
And a lot of these lies came from good people who otherwise woldn't have lied about anything.
It seems that the salespeople are the ones unhappy with grinders.. not necessarily the guy that comes away with a low price.
It takes two to tango.. If you don't like grinders, stick to your price.
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Would that would be from your personal experience, or eavesdropping on other salespeople negotiations? You may not lie, but how do you know your co-workers aren't,or salespeople at less honorable dealerships? The salespeople that frequent these boards aren't liars, but in reading many of the discussion here, and my personal experience, the lieing thing is done more often by "some" salespeople.
From the other side lies:
"Sure we have that car in stock... come on in." (got burned 4 times on that one)
"I just moved to Louisville about 8 months ago to take care of my sick mother." Then later the salesmen hands me his card that has him salesman of the year 3 years straight at this particular dealership. Man, that's low... and that ain't no lie. :sick:
"I will check with my manager to see if your offer is acceptable." What is the purpose of this when a knowledgeable salesman should himself know at once?
The "system" :confuse: is not to be admired.
I would say " If you tell me what models you are considering, I'll point you in the right direction. If you come up with any questions, come find me"
Most of the time when a customer is given a price they will only take that number and shop it to death.
We don't always know either.
I've had many a customer come to me with a number to beat that I know is impossible. They are eitehr lying or they have been lowballed.
This is where I had to be very careful.
If I told them.." That is impossible. When you go back to that store, SOMETHING is going to change" If I told them that, chances are good they wouldn't comeback and give the the satisifaction of saying (or thinking) " I told you so!"
I would usually say..." At that price, that store would be losing a lot of money. Are you sure they included everrything and have the right model in mind?"
" For that price, I would jump all ovr it. If something should change, please let me know" Sometimes I would get them back but often they would cave in, exhausted, and reward the store that lied to them"
" Oh, you wanted an automatic? My quote was for a five speed"
Or...
" Of couirse, destination is an extra 760.00 on top of the numebr I quoted you"
It's a tough business. " Thrifty" customers hell bent on not spening one penny more than they have to, as the pit dealer against dealer" and "crafty" stores lowballing customers and outright lying to get them in the door"
My down to earth, straightforward approach worked well most of the time, but I've still lost sales to stores that played the dirty tricks.
That is the part of this business I'm not going to miss!
The point that I am trying to make is that manufactures are getting very creative with their bonuses and incentives to dealers that are not published anywhere, and there is no way for consumer to know what the best price a dealer is willing to sell a car for without grinding.
I've sold more poeple who were "just looking" than those specifically requesting brochures, test drives, or salespeople to sell them a car today.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
BTW. You also said: “You should be using their own ad materials and the aggressiveness of other dealers to get your price.” That phase: “the aggressiveness of other dealers to get your price” is the definition of pitting dealers against each other.
Also, this grinding is what generates bad CSIs. Some customers, not me, are thinking: “WTF, why did I have to argue with them for two hours to get this price, when they could have agreed to it in 15 minutes”. This grinding is not pleasant for anyone including salespeople and SMs. Customers are not the only ones who have an attitude, salespeople and SMs also display attitude when they are frustrated. Unfortunately for you, customers think it’s your entire fault and punish you with bad CSI.
I know when I can afford (which does NOT mean whenever someone can approve my credit!) to be buying. A sales guy who tries to push that button get a "no sale" from me and not just for that day.
I know you guys make your money that way but all to often it quickly becomes trying to get me to make an economically stupid move just so the sales guy can pocket his commission. No, thanks.
But that's the reason why "just looking" responses will result ain a few questions.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I can't tell you how many times I heard..." I don't like the process of going back and forth, just tell me what you'll sell the car for"
At that point, I would tell them.." O.K. let me just give you the wholesale price I sell cars to my fleet customers. I see you want to make this painless and easy"
So, I'll give them a price that is usually a few hundred dollars over our invoice price.
Does this work? Do they say.." Oh thank you, that sounds great, let's writie it up!"
Very seldom. I'll hear " Well, is that the BEST you can do?"
And I know I just gave them a number to go shop.
So, I'll ask them..." Let me write this up and you can offer whatever you like"
I'll even tell than..." I marked it up 500.00! How much of that last 500.00 do you want?
An hour later, we will agree on a very skinny deal just to put a mark on the board. Hopefully they will send referrals.
Then they get their survey..." The process took too long"
So much for a painless, easy deal and for WHAT? to "save" another 200.00??
The last two cars I bought we had the deal done in half an hour tops - probably more like 15 minutes. We then waited for hours so I could listen to the FWI spiel and get out of there.
Seriously, I feel your pain, but that’s the nature of the beast. If I was in a different market I would do same thing. I would shop multiple stores until they would stop talking to me, then I would know that I have reached the bottom. However, I would never punish the salesman by giving him bad CSI, because it was my choice to do that. As you saw from my example, invoice doesn’t mean anything anymore. That’s why you have to shop any number.
As a buyer I got lied to all of the time to the point I was cynical.
Some of my favorites:
"Oh that quote was for the 4 cylinder not the 6" (This after they assured me it was for the 6 cylinder).
"Oh that payment is for the 'Smart Lease" not a purchase" (After I had confirmed that their numbers were for an outright purchase).
"Oh all these cars come with 'X' option, you cannot get it without it" (yet there were at least two other cars of that exact model and trim that didn't have "X" installed on them on their lot).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
to each his own I suppose.
NEver once did I ever lowball a customer. Our store didn't do things like that.
But, oh, how some shoppers deserved the lowball thery received.
It sounds like dealers enjoy putting themselves through a lot of pain, time and trouble just to make a few bucks.
Two sides of the same story.
Yes sir, I am a masochist.
Honestly, I haven't done it in a while, but when I did do it, it wasn't a big deal. I might visit a store once, but after that it was over the phone. And usually it is not over a few bucks, on average I would save $1000 over the first store's "best price". The difference is greater when a trade-in is involved.
I know how long it took me to earn that $100, or $500, or $1000. If I can save that much in a matter of minutes, or an hour say, then I won't have to earn it all over again.
Why is it the dealers want customers to negotiate - it's their sales system after all - and then complain when people do it? Too funny.
John
You paid the "lowest price" and I guess that is all that mattered to you.
Your bad survey was reflected on your salesperson and not the finance guy.
That's the way the surveys work.
What you could have done is given a good survey and expressed your opinion of the finance person in the comments section.
In each case, the salesperson who got the sale was one who left me alone to browse the lot til I found something that looked interesting at a price close to what I could live with. At one place, a guy followed me around while I was looking, and kept asking questions, which bugged the living daylights out of me. I left.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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As a side note, I smile about the statements that the worst surveys come from the people with the best deals. We used to do things free for some clients in my tax accounting office as a service, We found that they were always the ones complaining and taking up our time. Once we started charging for those same services, complaints and issues with them went waaaaay down, and we're not doing any less, or doing any different of a job....just dealing with less complaints.
Without fail, EVERY time I did a favor for a customer it backfired and cost us money. The customers ended up unhappy in the end and we lost money.
The recent Cash for Clunkers event was a great example of that.
People thought they were entitled and I guess they were. They were ticked that they were only getting 3500.00 and not 4500.00 because their cars didn't qualify for the higher amount.
One guy blew his engine on his junker enroute to our store. He had it towed in and demanded we take it as a clunker. We couldn't. It had to run and it didn't
He threw a fit!
They should of thrown the "FITS" on your lot through the dealership's front windows to express the "smarts" of the C4C program.
The dealers didn't dream up the program!
The vast majority of buyers probably are unaware of that. To most people the "server", as you say, is the salesperson and the finance person combined.
Bad service by one is bad service by all. Not fair to the one who does a good job, but that's the system they work under.
If I were a salesman, I would "freak out" if the finance person cost me survey points and bonus money, by lieing or being rude to my buyer. Don't know what salespeople do under such circumstances... complain to the sales manager or general manager I suppose. :confuse:
Still, if one finance person stands out as a problem, a good store won't put up with this for long.
With one exception every finance person we have had was excellent.
We once hired a guy who had workid in our store years ago as a salesperson. He was, by far, the best salesperosn ever. He was before my time but he was a legend and his name came up often.
He came back to us years later as an F& I person. He wesnt way over the top in pushiness. He woudn't take no for an answer. His numbers were good but he got complaints and we got some bad surveys because of him.
He had come from a high pressure store as many are.
He was quickly let go.
Sounds like a good way to do it. My saleswoman was great, service dept. was excellent, finance guy made a mistake on the numbers, which I caught, and then he corrected it.
I didn't give a perfect survey just because of the finance guy. I mentioned that reason in the comments box, so hope it didn't hurt my saleswoman.
Incidentally, I saved better than $2,000 because I was willing to drive for 45 minutes to another dealer as compared to a closer one. Well worth my time and the price of gas for the extra trip.
We've driven over 100 miles to another dealership for our last four cars. Every time we try to buy local (so the tax dollars go local) we get frustrated with the games and just call this other dealership. They have done us right every time. Well worth the trip. Our last purchase, I was told by a fellow Elk's Club member to just call the owner directly and tell him. I did and he turned us over to a guy who said he'd take good care of us. What a joke....
We've decided to just stick with the other dealership in the future....and it was a hard choice as we'd like the money to stay local; however, price and service make the difference and when the owner can't take care of you, you know that is what permeates throughout his organization. The other dealership is just awesome...kinda like comparing a Lexus to a Daewoo...and now my friends are starting to drive the 100 miles, too.
I'm guessing you spent a lot of time at your local store asking questions and driving cars, right?
Before you drove 45 minutes, did you call your local store and ask them what number you had and if they could match it?
If so, great! They had their chance.
Wow...2000.00! There must be a hell of a markup in a Volvo!
If you said 200.00 and not 2000.00 it would have made more sense.
I'm guessing you live in a remote area and your local dealer isn't high volume.
Some stores like to make a lot of money by selling a few cars while others are more concerned about volume and in the end they probaqbly end up about the same.
Exactly - everyone is welcome to pay the MSRP if they don't want to haggle and want to save time.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
What's funny is that they are a branch of a high volume, high pressure dealership group out of Las Vegas...and they act like you are privileged to be able to buy there and if you don't, you are a bad person for wasting their time.
I wouldn't drive 100 miles to save $200 (although I'm sure there are several that would...kinda silly, tho, don't you think?) but I will for $1500 to $2000, which is what I've saved each and every time....and I tell the local guy that I can drive that 100 miles to save so what can he do for me...every time I get the same old song and dance and respectfully leave, call the other dealership, commit to a price point over the phone, then drive there.
Like I said in a previous post, I'm done with giving the local guy a chance anymore.......because they just have too much of an arrogant air about them. And, they always call about two weeks later, seeing how my search for a vehicle is going. When I tell them I did what I said and drove the 100 miles and bought the car I wanted at the price i asked them to bid against, they act like I didn't give them the chance to sell me the vehicle. It's funny now as it has happened four times, so it's pretty consistent...and I'm not a grinder at all. I should have learned my lesson the last time; however, my wife and I truly wanted our money to stay local....but it is just not to be....we'll just donate more to the local food banks and women's shelter to make up for it.
I would do the same thing myself especially if they have an attitude.
I won't buy anything from a store or person I don't like and I don't care how much I'm saving.
Not really all that much time. Maybe an hour at one Volvo place, where I drove three different cars (XC60, XC70, and V50), maybe half an hour at the other one, where I first drove a V70.
Once I realized that I liked the V70 the best, I contacted the first store again to see if they had a car configured exactly as I wanted. There were 3 packages plus the BLIS mirrors that I wanted; I was flexible on color to a degree. The guy e-mailed back "Yes, we have the car you want, it's XXX price, come on back."
I realized from the price it would not have the three things I wanted, double-checked their inventory on-line and realized I was right, contacted him again and said "Looks like your car only has A and B, not A, B and C, is that right?" His response: "Yes, our car has everything you want except C."
Which is to say, no, it was not what I wanted.
Second dealer also did not have exactly the car I wanted, but instead of trying to look for one for me, he tried to sell me the car they had (which had A and C, but not
That was a pointless waste of time, as a) I didn't want to finance, period, and b), again, it was NOT configured as I wanted. So if it's not the right car, what difference would their financing deal have made, and why would he waste time trying to sell me a car that I didn't want at full list price? Bizarre.
I searched more dealers' inventories on line, saw a car configured as I wanted it at the dealer 45 minutes away. I contacted them, the woman who responded said "yes, it has A, B, and C, plus Sirius radio." (Which I didn't really care about, but ok.)
So I made an appointment, drove down there, liked the car, asked for the price, she gave me invoice minus $2500 right away, no nonsense, and gave me a good price for my beat-up, 10 year old Maxima. ($3,000). (Her first offer was $2500, and I asked for $3,000 and got it.)
So that was a done deal, very simple. Right car, right price, no shenanigans, except a little bit with the finance guy who rounded up to the next $100, which I corrected.
Other than that little hiccup, very smooth transaction all around.