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Grinders like this never stop and as you say go through their lives being miserable and expecting everyone to give them something for nothing. Sometimes even a mini deal is not worth the headache these people cause afterwards.
I wouldn't last long in your job. I'd get fired for telling this guy where to go and how far up to stick it.
I think that's a little over the top. First we get the "grinders are the most miserable people" assertion and now we generalize on the honesty of customers? GIve me a break!
"More likely to be untruthful?" More likely than what? The salesman who claims there's just not that much profit so you're just plain silly to haggle? And that's not to mention that the salesperson has tools to verify claims of facts whereas the customer only has the word of a salesperson concerning his or her own veracity. Did you ever consider that some of those "miserable" people might just be that way because they felt they were cheated by less than honest salespeople?
Understand that I am not taking a position. I am only pointing out the absurdity of making outrageous and unfounded generalizations.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Since you are nissaninfo, here are couple examples. Recently I was pricing Nissan Altima coupe SR. According to Edmunds the spread between MSRP and invoice on the most expensive SR is $4410. That includes $1000 rebate and $500 in trunk money.
Example 1. MSRP $31990, selling price $26771, difference $5219.
Example 2 MSRP $33510, selling price $27681, difference $5829. That’s $1419 less than “dealer cost”. I don’t know about you, but $1419 is a lot of money for me and I am willing to grind a salesman for this kind of money. I owe it to my family to save as much as possible on my purchases.
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In regards to untruhfulness if I'm selling a new car, because of industry information, consumer websites, other dealers, etc. . .it does not benefit me to lie to customers. Some people however feel as though it benefits them to lie about things like: a Dr.'s appointment they have to go to instead of another test drive appointment, lie about the condition of their trade, the "friend" that referred them that doesn't know who they are, their relationship with the owner, their recent college graduate qualifications, their credit score, the quote they said they didn't mind sharing with us but is "tweeked" just a bit, their approval rate from their own bank, etc. . .
Again, I am not talking about all customers because I like people and thats part of why I am in sales and have been for a long time even before cars. My only point was that the likelihood of being lied to as a salesperson is greater. Contrary to popular belief lying doesn't make me more money, and the risks are much higher than the potential rewards in regards to our reputation at the dealership.
On a more lighthearted note, #1 and #2 sales "lies":
"We are just looking"
"We'll be right back"
And a lot of these lies came from good people who otherwise woldn't have lied about anything.
It seems that the salespeople are the ones unhappy with grinders.. not necessarily the guy that comes away with a low price.
It takes two to tango.. If you don't like grinders, stick to your price.
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Would that would be from your personal experience, or eavesdropping on other salespeople negotiations? You may not lie, but how do you know your co-workers aren't,or salespeople at less honorable dealerships? The salespeople that frequent these boards aren't liars, but in reading many of the discussion here, and my personal experience, the lieing thing is done more often by "some" salespeople.
From the other side lies:
"Sure we have that car in stock... come on in." (got burned 4 times on that one)
"I just moved to Louisville about 8 months ago to take care of my sick mother." Then later the salesmen hands me his card that has him salesman of the year 3 years straight at this particular dealership. Man, that's low... and that ain't no lie. :sick:
"I will check with my manager to see if your offer is acceptable." What is the purpose of this when a knowledgeable salesman should himself know at once?
The "system" :confuse: is not to be admired.
I would say " If you tell me what models you are considering, I'll point you in the right direction. If you come up with any questions, come find me"
Most of the time when a customer is given a price they will only take that number and shop it to death.
We don't always know either.
I've had many a customer come to me with a number to beat that I know is impossible. They are eitehr lying or they have been lowballed.
This is where I had to be very careful.
If I told them.." That is impossible. When you go back to that store, SOMETHING is going to change" If I told them that, chances are good they wouldn't comeback and give the the satisifaction of saying (or thinking) " I told you so!"
I would usually say..." At that price, that store would be losing a lot of money. Are you sure they included everrything and have the right model in mind?"
" For that price, I would jump all ovr it. If something should change, please let me know" Sometimes I would get them back but often they would cave in, exhausted, and reward the store that lied to them"
" Oh, you wanted an automatic? My quote was for a five speed"
Or...
" Of couirse, destination is an extra 760.00 on top of the numebr I quoted you"
It's a tough business. " Thrifty" customers hell bent on not spening one penny more than they have to, as the pit dealer against dealer" and "crafty" stores lowballing customers and outright lying to get them in the door"
My down to earth, straightforward approach worked well most of the time, but I've still lost sales to stores that played the dirty tricks.
That is the part of this business I'm not going to miss!
The point that I am trying to make is that manufactures are getting very creative with their bonuses and incentives to dealers that are not published anywhere, and there is no way for consumer to know what the best price a dealer is willing to sell a car for without grinding.
I've sold more poeple who were "just looking" than those specifically requesting brochures, test drives, or salespeople to sell them a car today.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
BTW. You also said: “You should be using their own ad materials and the aggressiveness of other dealers to get your price.” That phase: “the aggressiveness of other dealers to get your price” is the definition of pitting dealers against each other.
Also, this grinding is what generates bad CSIs. Some customers, not me, are thinking: “WTF, why did I have to argue with them for two hours to get this price, when they could have agreed to it in 15 minutes”. This grinding is not pleasant for anyone including salespeople and SMs. Customers are not the only ones who have an attitude, salespeople and SMs also display attitude when they are frustrated. Unfortunately for you, customers think it’s your entire fault and punish you with bad CSI.
I know when I can afford (which does NOT mean whenever someone can approve my credit!) to be buying. A sales guy who tries to push that button get a "no sale" from me and not just for that day.
I know you guys make your money that way but all to often it quickly becomes trying to get me to make an economically stupid move just so the sales guy can pocket his commission. No, thanks.
But that's the reason why "just looking" responses will result ain a few questions.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I can't tell you how many times I heard..." I don't like the process of going back and forth, just tell me what you'll sell the car for"
At that point, I would tell them.." O.K. let me just give you the wholesale price I sell cars to my fleet customers. I see you want to make this painless and easy"
So, I'll give them a price that is usually a few hundred dollars over our invoice price.
Does this work? Do they say.." Oh thank you, that sounds great, let's writie it up!"
Very seldom. I'll hear " Well, is that the BEST you can do?"
And I know I just gave them a number to go shop.
So, I'll ask them..." Let me write this up and you can offer whatever you like"
I'll even tell than..." I marked it up 500.00! How much of that last 500.00 do you want?
An hour later, we will agree on a very skinny deal just to put a mark on the board. Hopefully they will send referrals.
Then they get their survey..." The process took too long"
So much for a painless, easy deal and for WHAT? to "save" another 200.00??
The last two cars I bought we had the deal done in half an hour tops - probably more like 15 minutes. We then waited for hours so I could listen to the FWI spiel and get out of there.
Seriously, I feel your pain, but that’s the nature of the beast. If I was in a different market I would do same thing. I would shop multiple stores until they would stop talking to me, then I would know that I have reached the bottom. However, I would never punish the salesman by giving him bad CSI, because it was my choice to do that. As you saw from my example, invoice doesn’t mean anything anymore. That’s why you have to shop any number.
As a buyer I got lied to all of the time to the point I was cynical.
Some of my favorites:
"Oh that quote was for the 4 cylinder not the 6" (This after they assured me it was for the 6 cylinder).
"Oh that payment is for the 'Smart Lease" not a purchase" (After I had confirmed that their numbers were for an outright purchase).
"Oh all these cars come with 'X' option, you cannot get it without it" (yet there were at least two other cars of that exact model and trim that didn't have "X" installed on them on their lot).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
to each his own I suppose.
NEver once did I ever lowball a customer. Our store didn't do things like that.
But, oh, how some shoppers deserved the lowball thery received.
It sounds like dealers enjoy putting themselves through a lot of pain, time and trouble just to make a few bucks.
Two sides of the same story.
Yes sir, I am a masochist.
Honestly, I haven't done it in a while, but when I did do it, it wasn't a big deal. I might visit a store once, but after that it was over the phone. And usually it is not over a few bucks, on average I would save $1000 over the first store's "best price". The difference is greater when a trade-in is involved.
I know how long it took me to earn that $100, or $500, or $1000. If I can save that much in a matter of minutes, or an hour say, then I won't have to earn it all over again.
Why is it the dealers want customers to negotiate - it's their sales system after all - and then complain when people do it? Too funny.
John
You paid the "lowest price" and I guess that is all that mattered to you.
Your bad survey was reflected on your salesperson and not the finance guy.
That's the way the surveys work.
What you could have done is given a good survey and expressed your opinion of the finance person in the comments section.
In each case, the salesperson who got the sale was one who left me alone to browse the lot til I found something that looked interesting at a price close to what I could live with. At one place, a guy followed me around while I was looking, and kept asking questions, which bugged the living daylights out of me. I left.
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As a side note, I smile about the statements that the worst surveys come from the people with the best deals. We used to do things free for some clients in my tax accounting office as a service, We found that they were always the ones complaining and taking up our time. Once we started charging for those same services, complaints and issues with them went waaaaay down, and we're not doing any less, or doing any different of a job....just dealing with less complaints.
Without fail, EVERY time I did a favor for a customer it backfired and cost us money. The customers ended up unhappy in the end and we lost money.
The recent Cash for Clunkers event was a great example of that.
People thought they were entitled and I guess they were. They were ticked that they were only getting 3500.00 and not 4500.00 because their cars didn't qualify for the higher amount.
One guy blew his engine on his junker enroute to our store. He had it towed in and demanded we take it as a clunker. We couldn't. It had to run and it didn't
He threw a fit!
They should of thrown the "FITS" on your lot through the dealership's front windows to express the "smarts" of the C4C program.
The dealers didn't dream up the program!
The vast majority of buyers probably are unaware of that. To most people the "server", as you say, is the salesperson and the finance person combined.
Bad service by one is bad service by all. Not fair to the one who does a good job, but that's the system they work under.
If I were a salesman, I would "freak out" if the finance person cost me survey points and bonus money, by lieing or being rude to my buyer. Don't know what salespeople do under such circumstances... complain to the sales manager or general manager I suppose. :confuse:
Still, if one finance person stands out as a problem, a good store won't put up with this for long.
With one exception every finance person we have had was excellent.
We once hired a guy who had workid in our store years ago as a salesperson. He was, by far, the best salesperosn ever. He was before my time but he was a legend and his name came up often.
He came back to us years later as an F& I person. He wesnt way over the top in pushiness. He woudn't take no for an answer. His numbers were good but he got complaints and we got some bad surveys because of him.
He had come from a high pressure store as many are.
He was quickly let go.
Sounds like a good way to do it. My saleswoman was great, service dept. was excellent, finance guy made a mistake on the numbers, which I caught, and then he corrected it.
I didn't give a perfect survey just because of the finance guy. I mentioned that reason in the comments box, so hope it didn't hurt my saleswoman.
Incidentally, I saved better than $2,000 because I was willing to drive for 45 minutes to another dealer as compared to a closer one. Well worth my time and the price of gas for the extra trip.
We've driven over 100 miles to another dealership for our last four cars. Every time we try to buy local (so the tax dollars go local) we get frustrated with the games and just call this other dealership. They have done us right every time. Well worth the trip. Our last purchase, I was told by a fellow Elk's Club member to just call the owner directly and tell him. I did and he turned us over to a guy who said he'd take good care of us. What a joke....
We've decided to just stick with the other dealership in the future....and it was a hard choice as we'd like the money to stay local; however, price and service make the difference and when the owner can't take care of you, you know that is what permeates throughout his organization. The other dealership is just awesome...kinda like comparing a Lexus to a Daewoo...and now my friends are starting to drive the 100 miles, too.
I'm guessing you spent a lot of time at your local store asking questions and driving cars, right?
Before you drove 45 minutes, did you call your local store and ask them what number you had and if they could match it?
If so, great! They had their chance.
Wow...2000.00! There must be a hell of a markup in a Volvo!
If you said 200.00 and not 2000.00 it would have made more sense.
I'm guessing you live in a remote area and your local dealer isn't high volume.
Some stores like to make a lot of money by selling a few cars while others are more concerned about volume and in the end they probaqbly end up about the same.
Exactly - everyone is welcome to pay the MSRP if they don't want to haggle and want to save time.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
What's funny is that they are a branch of a high volume, high pressure dealership group out of Las Vegas...and they act like you are privileged to be able to buy there and if you don't, you are a bad person for wasting their time.
I wouldn't drive 100 miles to save $200 (although I'm sure there are several that would...kinda silly, tho, don't you think?) but I will for $1500 to $2000, which is what I've saved each and every time....and I tell the local guy that I can drive that 100 miles to save so what can he do for me...every time I get the same old song and dance and respectfully leave, call the other dealership, commit to a price point over the phone, then drive there.
Like I said in a previous post, I'm done with giving the local guy a chance anymore.......because they just have too much of an arrogant air about them. And, they always call about two weeks later, seeing how my search for a vehicle is going. When I tell them I did what I said and drove the 100 miles and bought the car I wanted at the price i asked them to bid against, they act like I didn't give them the chance to sell me the vehicle. It's funny now as it has happened four times, so it's pretty consistent...and I'm not a grinder at all. I should have learned my lesson the last time; however, my wife and I truly wanted our money to stay local....but it is just not to be....we'll just donate more to the local food banks and women's shelter to make up for it.
I would do the same thing myself especially if they have an attitude.
I won't buy anything from a store or person I don't like and I don't care how much I'm saving.
Not really all that much time. Maybe an hour at one Volvo place, where I drove three different cars (XC60, XC70, and V50), maybe half an hour at the other one, where I first drove a V70.
Once I realized that I liked the V70 the best, I contacted the first store again to see if they had a car configured exactly as I wanted. There were 3 packages plus the BLIS mirrors that I wanted; I was flexible on color to a degree. The guy e-mailed back "Yes, we have the car you want, it's XXX price, come on back."
I realized from the price it would not have the three things I wanted, double-checked their inventory on-line and realized I was right, contacted him again and said "Looks like your car only has A and B, not A, B and C, is that right?" His response: "Yes, our car has everything you want except C."
Which is to say, no, it was not what I wanted.
Second dealer also did not have exactly the car I wanted, but instead of trying to look for one for me, he tried to sell me the car they had (which had A and C, but not
That was a pointless waste of time, as a) I didn't want to finance, period, and b), again, it was NOT configured as I wanted. So if it's not the right car, what difference would their financing deal have made, and why would he waste time trying to sell me a car that I didn't want at full list price? Bizarre.
I searched more dealers' inventories on line, saw a car configured as I wanted it at the dealer 45 minutes away. I contacted them, the woman who responded said "yes, it has A, B, and C, plus Sirius radio." (Which I didn't really care about, but ok.)
So I made an appointment, drove down there, liked the car, asked for the price, she gave me invoice minus $2500 right away, no nonsense, and gave me a good price for my beat-up, 10 year old Maxima. ($3,000). (Her first offer was $2500, and I asked for $3,000 and got it.)
So that was a done deal, very simple. Right car, right price, no shenanigans, except a little bit with the finance guy who rounded up to the next $100, which I corrected.
Other than that little hiccup, very smooth transaction all around.