BMW 3-Series Lease Questions

tcn2k

Always negotiate the price in a lease. It makes a difference in you paymnet since it's part of the calculation in your monthly lease payment.

charleyd2

I just signed a lease for a 2007 328xi. Here are some of the details: I traded in a 2001 Volvo which they gave me $7900 for. However I am only getting $4,400 back in a check and the remaining $3500 is covering all costs (tax, bank fee, 1st payment, security deposit, etc.) When they broke out the costs they said I was only putting $900 down towards cap cost reduction but then doesn't it seem like $2600 in inception fees is high?

The lease is 27 months (12K miles/mo) $398/mo which includes NJ tax. The MSRP is $36,000 and has leatherette, cold package (heated seats) and power seats.

Was this a good deal? I feel like I probably could have done better (lower monthly payments and less out of pocket). Someone please make me feel better about my deal.

Also has anyone experienced BMW extending leases at the end of the term at the same monthly payments? If so, for how long?

tcn2k

398 a month which is includes the tax sounds about right with 3500 due at signing. Your probably could have negotiated no security deposits and lower your deposit. Remember, bmw have acquistion fee of 625 plus some more added from dealer. Your deal sounds like you may have gotten the high end of the fees. Here is what i assume from your 2600 fees.

2600 = 389 (1st month) + 625 + tax + licenses and doc fees + security deposit (400?) + your dealer fees (which you could have negotiated)

Overall, not too bad, but you could have done better...

CarMan@Edmunds

Hello ckatili. In order for us to estimate what your monthly payment should be on this car, we need you to provide us with its approximate selling price. You should be able to get an idea of how much you will have to pay for it right now by stopping by the following discussion and checking out how much other community members have paid for similar cars lately: "BMW 3-Series: Prices Paid & Buying Experience". Once you have an idea of how much you want to pay for this car, let us know and we'll crunch some numbers for you.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds

Congratulations on your new car, specula8. Thanks for taking the time to share the details of your deal with everyone. Enjoy!

Car_man
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Prices Paid Forum

CarMan@Edmunds

No problem, sichin. Wow, your first salesperson was pretty bad if they not only missed a scheduled meeting, but never even called you to follow up.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds

Greetings to the appropriately named bimmerlovr. You never mentioned the selling price or MSRP of the car that you are interested in leasing. These are important numbers for you as a consumer to know for two reasons. First, the selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash for them. Without knowing this car's selling price in relation to its MSRP you don't know how much of a discount you are getting on it. The second reason is that one needs the selling price and MSRP, including the destination charge, of a vehicle to calculate its lease payment. I would be more than happy to give you my opinion of this deal if you let me know what these numbers are. I also need to know how long this lease is and how many miles per year it allows.

Car_man
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Prices Paid Forum

CarMan@Edmunds

You're welcome, oc24. It sounds like you got a good deal on a nice car. Enjoy .

Car_man
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Prices Paid Forum

blerner2

I've got the following offer on the table with a local dealer for a 36mo/15k per year lease.

07 BMW 335i Sedan (Steptronic, Premium Pkg, Sport Pkg, Paddles, Comfort, Navi, Satellite Radio,Metallic Paint).

MSRP: $48,490
Cap Cost: $46,570
Residual: 61%
MF: .00190 (Base - Marked up from .00150 buy rate)
.00015 (Roll in Sec Deposit)
.00035 (Roll in BMW Acq. Fee)
Total MF = .00240
Payment = $655 excl. tax (with 1st month due at pickup)
Payment = $676 excl. tax (with $0 due at pickup)

The cap cost includes all dealer fees (ie. Maco, Training, Doc fees, etc). As mentioned, the MF includes the roll in of the Security Deposit and Acquisition Fees.

I figure that I could try and walk to see if they come off the markup on the MF off of the .00015 BMW buy rate, as I reckon this is costing me about $30/month over a calculation on the base buy rate, but they are the only dealer within 75 miles.

Any thoughts?

ili5

Hi everybody,
I put down a deposit on a 335i coupe last week. Here's how my "deal" ended up:
335i, Sport package, manual trans, leather, 3yr/30K miles
MSRP + Dest Charge ($695): 43745
Down payment $2500
Security Deposit: $600
1st Month payment including tax (5%), acq fee of $825 rolled in to monthly payments: $565
Total upfront: $4110
Monthly payments (including tax and acq fee) for remaining 35 months: $565

From the other deals on the board, I think I'm paying on the higher end of the spectrum. I haven't been able to get the dealer to write out the specifics of the lease on paper anywhere - they say they're unable to do it until the car arrives from the manufacturer (? Feb). I'm a little worried that some additional fees will get added on at the last minute - anyone have any advice? Also, if the dealer attempts to change terms or add some charges at the last minute when the car arrives, can I walk away from the deal and get my initial deposit ($750) back? Thanks for any advice.

ragebmw

Hi! Great information on this board!

I went to two BMW dealers here in San Diego and was able to negotiate very easily with BMW of San Diego. Here are my negotiated numbers (I have the actual numbers written at home, but I am at work... some numbers may be off by a couple dollars or so...):

335i Sedan - Black Sapphire, Black Leather, Burled Walnut, Manual Trans, Sport Pkg, Prem Pkg, Sat. Radio, Heated Seats (for the gf), and Comfort Access
36 month/10K mpy
MSRP: 45515
Negotiated Selling Price: 43000
MF: .00185 (at the time, my buy rate was .00165 and they started at .00205)
Destination: 625
Due at signing: 1500
Monthly Payment after tax (7.75%): 562/mo

This will be my first lease. Nothing has been signed, but everything is locked in. I put a deposit down to have the car ordered... should go into production within the next week and arrive sometime Feb, I suppose.

The numbers seem pretty good to me, but would love to hear others' opinions.

Thanks!

Jeff

1stbimmer

Here is what I have worked out (in South Florida):
335i sedan
msrp $46,500
sell price: $44800

Destination Charge: $695
Monaco Blue Metallic $475
Terra with Dakota Leather Upholstery and Burl Walnut Wood Trim
Premium Package $2,450
- BMW Assist with Bluetooth Wireless Technology
- Universal Garage Door Opener
- Auto-Dim Mirror
- Lumbar Support
- Digital Compass
Sport Package $1,600
STEPTRONIC Automatic Transmission $1,275
Paddle Shifters $100
Comfort Access $500
Power Rear Sunshade/Rear Manual Side Window Shades $575
Phone Docking Cradle $130
Auto-Dimming Exterior Rearview Mirrors $0
Price As Built: $46,500

base cap cost $44800
costs added to lease $1394
cap cost reduction $0
adj. cap cost $46194
RV 74% based on 24 mo/10k
MF .00150
Sales Tax 7%
$654.74 (tax included)
total lease cost $15714
inceptions only

I had them at $544.03 per month (tax included) until they hit me with the $895 bank fee (which they won't take off the $200 markup) and a $499 dealer fee (which they also won't reduce). I don't undersand how the extra $1394 jacked up my payments by over $100 :confuse: ; what is worse is that I had my wife's ok at the 544 and the 654 isn't flying. :mad:

will it make sense to pay the 1394 up front (is that even an option) and get the payments back at 544?
suggestions?

john7548

I don't understand why the bank fee of $895 and the $499 dealer fee are added??....I think they do charge $500-$600 for a security deposit. I think the MF is good...at least that is what I think it should be for a 3 year lease. In California I'm starting to think it is fairly easy to get them to discount from the MSRP $2500. I'm trying like heck now to get my local dealer to give me a $3000 discount off MSRP...61%residual...MF .00150. Previously I've always paid for my vehicles so this is my first lease experience. These dealers are like "eels" with these leases. There are too many ways they can screw you. I also don't know why the $1394 would increase your lease payment by $110 per month. Something seems odd with this deal.

tpjcourtney

Don't pay big money up front on a lease. Lowers your payment but raises your risk. You won't get that back if your in an accident.
Walk away, find another dealer. E90 335's are just not that hot. E92's yes, E90's no, shop around.

I just leased my E90 335, MSRP $45990 for $624 on a 36mo/15k w/ 7.5tax and I doubt that is the best deal out there. Besides that I am in a much smaller market in Colorado than you are in S. Florida, 4 dealers inside a 10 hour drive.

Not sure you should expect to get to the mid 5's though with that many options. What about 3yr? Typically 3yr leases with BMW give you a lower pmt the way they set their RV's.

ckatili

Thanks Car_man.

I have been reading a lot regarding leasing, now, I understand better about the whole process.

Car dealers in Houston do not seem to be willing to budge much below MSRP. The most I can get is $1000 off MSRP for 335i coupe. So, the MSRP: 44,695 and the selling price: 43,695.

I do not have January's MF, Residual Value, etc for 36K/3yr.

What is your thought on leasing in state like Texas where we have to pay tax on the Cap Cost?

I am also wondering if I can lease the car from other states, have it ship to TX and avoid the tax.

louistat

Hi, I'm a recent college grad w/o enough credit ("need a co-signer" as dealers say) to get approved for a lease. Yesterday, a dealer told me he can get me approved for the lease by paying a higher DownPayment (from a regular of $3,000 to $6,000).

Of the $6000, he said $2000 is the Drive-off and only the $4000 goes into reducing my coming on monthly payments. I'm asking if he's being honest that the $2000 is going to be
like a sunk cost with no use to reduce my monthly pays?

Besides, i'm going to custom-order one and he said the car will be here in May if I order right now. Does anyone know if the Feb production capacity has really already been filled so I have to wait for the April production (as the dealership manager told me)?

Thank you so much and I really need this help!

ranger911

1stbimmer, I'm also in South Florida and recently ordered a 335 sedan. Your setup is very similar to mine, same color and leather too. I got the manual with sport & premium packages, NAV system and rear folding seats. As built, it works out to be identical in price to yours. You got $200 better on the discount, but my salesperson went far and above his job to help me out and I am happy to pay him for his help (that's a story for another day). I'm trading in my E46 M3 for the 335.

Anyway to answer some of your questions, here goes:

- you don't pay the $895 (capitalized into lease) fee to BMW financial services if you lease it through another bank, but you will pay an upfront financing fee unless you pay cash in full for the car. Simple as that.

- There is the dealer fee which for my car is $489. I doubt that they will waive this, but in truth I haven't tried. There is also $72.49 to the State of FL and $150 for the license plate fee. I don't know if you can just deal with this yourself rather than paying the dealer. This $711 is not capitalized and is due upfront. In addition, you have to put down at least 1 month's payment as a security deposit upfront. Again, you won't have to pay this if you buy the car. So costs that aren't capitalized (i.e., added to cost of lease) and are paid on day 1 = about $1,350 (your $1,394). The amount due at the start of the lease is the $1,350 ($1,394) + first month's payment + optional down payment & tax on down payment. Do not put $ down on a car. The lease rates are low enough that you can get a higher return in the stock market.

- Your adjusted cap cost as far as I can tell is $45,625 (=$44,800+$895) and unless I'm making a huge mistake your monthly lease should be way lower, around $460. The money factor makes sense, adjusted cap cost makes sense and the tax rate in FL is 6.5%. The only thing that might be throwing my calculation off is the residual value, which you said was 74% at the end of 2 years. I negotiated a 36 month / 15k mile lease and the RV is 62%. The only other thing I can think of is that the $895 is amortized over 2 years instead of 3 years which would make your payments $475 instead of $460. You should make sure that they calculated correctly and used 24 months instead of 36 months. The payment on my new car should be around $660.

- Lastly, for those who can afford it, BMW is running a deal for people who are willing to put down 7 months security deposit. I originally got a MF of .0018 (4.32% APR) but for putting down the extra security deposit the MF would be .00121 (2.9% APR). This represents about $1,500 savings over the life of the lease (36 months), which is about 12% on the approx. $4,400 I will put down in security. THIS IS NOT A DOWN PAYMENT. I will get the $ back at the end of the lease. It's pretty hard to expect to earn 12% on your money so this was a great deal for me.

Hope this helps.

ranger911

$2,000 sounds a bit high, but it depends on the state you live in so it could be close. See my response to 1stBimmer for a description of costs at inception.

Last month I was told around April for a special order coupe. Couldn't wait that long so ordered a sedan which I found out today is built and should get either end of Jan. or beginning of Feb.

izmirian

Louistat,

I've done the same thing when I graduated from my masters. For BMW Finance you don't need credit history if you have a job offer letter in your hand. No history or bad history is approved, if your is not extremely bad. To make the monthly payments low I wanted to build one with no options on it but the guy at the dealer convinced me into a loaded one in the lot. They want to move inventory and they pull the msrp down to match your proposal. I've did the same thing. I put 5000$ three years back when I was leasing my car. It's up to you at the end of the day and it's pure math. A part of your first day payment definitely goes for capital cost reduction. If I were you I would first make sure I'm approved for credit with BMW Finance. From that point on you are like everyone else. Next step would be to get a quote for a base model or maybe a car with few options. To see where you would land with monthly payments. Most probably they will have something similar with a little more options in the lot. Automatically they will try to sell you that car. Tell them that you don't need this extra option.( let's say premium package for $2500). They will offer to reduce the price at least by that amount to meet your monthly payments. Once you feel ok with the figures, if you still want to pull the monthly payments down more, put some more money down which would directly go towards capital cost reduction. I got an OK deal the first time leased a car. I could have done better. But didn't have a clue about leasing programs.I was just lucky because it was bmw finance. They have a very fair lease program. It's not tiered like some other companies. If you are eligible everybody gets the same rate. If not you don't get anything. Make sure you learn the money factor for January 07. I'll post the link at the bottom. This site is very useful. Be careful. Let me know if you have any further questions.

http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/financing/8186473-1.html

ranger911

I made a HUGE error in my last post to you about this. I calculated the payment on a 36 month lease. After-tax (6.5%) on an adjusted cap cost of $45,625, 74% RV, .0015 MF and 24 months, the monthly payment is $679. So sorry about that.

fjuno78

Hello all,

I have the following deal:

328i coupe with:
Step
Sports Package
Premium Package
Heated Seats

MSRP: 41,920
negoitiated price: 40,090

Term: 36 months/ 12k per year
Due at signing: 2700.00 (includes 1st month pmt, fees, security and small cap cost reduction)

MF-.125
Residual- 60%
Remaining 35 payments come out to $520 per month, including NY City Tax 8.375%

How does this deal look? I negotiated free floor mats as well.

Thanks in advance

ragebmw

In addition to the information below (posted earlier), I had a couple questions about multiple security deposits.

1) Both dealers told me that the MSD incentive does not apply to rates that are already incentivized... is that true?

2) Being that a security deposit (whether one or multiple) is saying you will return the car in reasonable condition at lease-end, do you get it back if you get into an accident (assuming the lease has built-in gap coverage)? I know you would just be down and out if you put it down as a cap cost reduction, but what about a security deposit (or MSDs)?

I went to two BMW dealers here in San Diego and was able to negotiate very easily with BMW of San Diego (as opposed to Brecht BMW). Here are my negotiated numbers (I have the actual numbers written at home, but I am at work... some numbers may be off by a couple dollars or so...):

335i Sedan - Black Sapphire, Black Leather, Burled Walnut, Manual Trans, Sport Pkg, Prem Pkg, Sat. Radio, Heated Seats (for the gf), and Comfort Access
36 month/10K mpy
MSRP: 45515
Negotiated Selling Price: 43000
MF: .00185 (at the time, my buy rate was .00165 and they started at .00205)
Destination: 625
Due at signing: 1500
Monthly Payment after tax (7.75%): 562/mo

This will be my first lease. Nothing has been signed, but everything is locked in. I put a deposit down to have the car ordered... should go into production within the next week and arrive sometime Feb, I suppose.

The numbers seem pretty good to me, but would love to hear others' opinions.

Thanks!

Jeff

john7548

This is what I'm going to try tomorrow...335i..white/beige, prem. package,navigation, sport package, a/t, cold package, satellite radio, comfort access, paddle shifters.. The MSRP is $49015. I'm going to try and get that reduced to $46015. I'm willing to put $2500 cap reduction...I'm hoping to get a MF of .0015 and a monthy payment of $557(7.25% sales tax included). Interesting what Ranger said in a previous post about getting the MF reduced greatly by making 7 months payments to be held as a security deposit. I would entertain that thought also. I don't know in Bakersfield if they will even know this program exists.

1stbimmer

know you messed up my numbers!. j/k
What dealer? If you don't mind, perhaps you can shoot me an email and we can discuss. I may end up going to 36 month lease if it will keep my payments lower. :confuse:

cokaer

Just negotiated a my first lease deal. Can anyone comment if its fair?

2007 328ix with premium, sport, cold weather packages, navi, metallic paint and back up sensor. MSRP is $43,120. Negotiated Eurpoean Delivery at $38760 (I think this is $1200 over ED invoice).

3 year/ 45k mile lease at .00235 money factor and using .61 residual and NY tax at .0875, lease works out to $571 per month. Up front paying $0 cap cost but about $780 to cover one month's lease payment and registration fees.

Money factor seems higher than I've seen posted. Should the MF be higher for Euro Delivery.

Planning for an ED pick up in early April to coincide with a family vaca.

Is this an okay deal? :confuse:

kyfdx

1) Both dealers told me that the MSD incentive does not apply to rates that are already incentivized... is that true?

Not true...

2) Being that a security deposit (whether one or multiple) is saying you will return the car in reasonable condition at lease-end, do you get it back if you get into an accident (assuming the lease has built-in gap coverage)? I know you would just be down and out if you put it down as a cap cost reduction, but what about a security deposit (or MSDs)?

Your lease end charges will be the same, whether you have 8 security deposits, or no security deposit. If you had $3K in charges at lease end, you still would have to pay that amount, regardless of the security deposit. They won't hang on to your security deposit just because they can. In most cases, a dealer representative inspects your car at turn-in. He probably won't even know your security deposit situation.
regards,
kyfdx

ranger911

Sorry again. :sick:

I went to Vista. It says in the forum rules not to post my e-mail address or give the name of the salesperson. Does anyone know of a way to send a private message? If we can figure that out, I can tell you who I am dealing with there and help you with your questions. I really like my salesperson a lot. He's straightforward and honest.

ragebmw

Thanks for the information, kyfdx...

So, if it's not true, do I just out and out tell them they're lying to me? Is the incentive lowered because of the incentivized rate?

dhamilton

So is that with security deposits, or without?

Either way, seems like a good deal to me.

fjuno78

Bump.

I'm looking to get an idea if this is a good deal or not.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

cj10mu

I just spoke with my local dealer in WI and they quoted me a money factor of .00235 with a 63% residual on a 3 series for 3 years/36K miles. He also said they just had a lease special which ended on 1/2/07 but wouldn't give me the details. Looking to see if anyone out there knows what the money factor and residual was during the speical.

Thanks!

bmwpanic

This was a quote I recieved today in Detroit
328xi
MSRP $36,770
36 months
15k miles/year
$2500 down
$472/month including tax

1stbimmer

ranger911,
here's my email addy: rodriguezmiami@gmail.com

1stbimmer

quick question:
If upfront money is not an issue (by that I mean that I can pay the full lease costs on day one if need be), what is the best way to drive payments down; pay entire lease upfront, put up a huge deposit to lower the mf???????

ragebmw

That is with no security deposit... that is... unless there is a deposit within that $1500 I will be paying when I sign for it. I didn't ask them to break down what that covers. I think I remember her saying it did not include a security deposit, though. Good to know it looks like a good deal. Thanks!

steveinvt

Here is a quote I got on a 24 month lease (10k/yr)
MSRP: 40650 (includes metallic, auto, cold weather package, i-pod, Dest charge)
Negotiated price: 39500
Residual: 71%
Money factor: .0014
Sales Tax: 6%
1st payment and Sec Dep due at delivery

The dealer quoted me a payment of $604/month. When I run the numbers through my excel spreadsheet I get $572/month. Am I getting something wrong or is the dealer not telling me something.

Also, I've noticed that others have been able to get residuals at 74%. Are residuals standardized or do the dealers have some discretion?

Thanks!!

ranger911

If upfront $ isn't an issue, then why would you want to put $ down to lower your payments? The cost of the lease is the cost of the lease. What I mean by that is even if you pay the entire lease upfront, you are paying the same amount as if you paid monthly. This is the problem that I have with the car industry, they do not give you all the info that you need to make an informed decision, either because the salespeople do not know or they are deliberately withholding information. There are only a few things that determine how much you will pay: the negotiated price of the new car (far and away the biggest factor in determining monthly payments), the APR or MF, the residual value and trade-in value / down payment. Unless you do not trust yourself to maintain your bank account so that you have the $ for the monthly payment, it makes no financial sense to put money down, period.

The thing that you must realize is this: your lease payments are based on the monthly depreciation of the car plus the interest expense on the amount that you financed. The monthly depreciation is calculated as the total capitalized cost of the car less the residual value (which I calculate as the stated RV % times the MSRP) and divide that by the number of months of the lease. The interest is calculated as the average of the total cap cost and the residual value times the MF. This took me a while to figure out. The reason that you average the total cap cost and the RV is that the bank's money is tied up for the entire total cap cost for the life of the lease. For example, if you negotiated $45,000 for the car, the bank is laying out $45,000 and cannot use that money for anything else until the car comes off lease. Therefore, they want to be compensated on not just the depreciated value that you used during the life of the lease but on the depreciation and their opportunity cost for that $45,000 that is tied up in your car. This is what most people don't get. Putting money down doesn't save you any money, except that it might lower your APR / MF. It raises your risk and you could earn more $ in many CDs these days.

ranger911

I might be wrong but it seems like the RV doesn't match the mileage. I think 71% is for a 2 yr. / 15K lease and 74% is for a 2 yr. / 10K lease. Does anyone else agree with this?

ragebmw

That was my understanding as well. I would ask your dealer and make sure they didn't write up the lease figuring 15K miles by mistake even though you told them 10K. The first dealer I went to made that mistake. They claimed it was by accident... who knows. Also, if you're calculating your payment in the spreadsheet the way ranger911 just stated above, it should be within a couple of dollars... but not $30 or dollars off.

steveinvt

Ranger and ragebmw,

Thanks! This is what I thought. I will take this back to the dealer tomorrow.

serefinah

cj10mu- You need the MF for what kind of 3 series? 328 sedan, coupe, 335sedan, coupe?

tcn2k

I got .00175 with 63% for 36 month/12k

Some folks reported .0015.

ragebmw

0.0015 is the buy rate, I believe, for the model and term/miles you want. I've heard it is difficult to get the buy rate, because then, the dealer isn't making any money on the back-end to pay their financial department... whatever that means to you. Is anyone out there actually getting the buy rate on their leases?? I believe in business and think they SHOULD make a profit... they're not a charity. So, I was a first-time BMW purchaser, my buy rate was 0.00165 and we eventually agreed on a 20 basis-point markup (so MF 0.00185) for them... which equates to 0.48%... I ground them down on every single other item, so really, who cares... that's about $10 per month or so... depending on cap cost, obviously. Anyways, that's my take on it. Anyone else... feel free to chime in on this.

ranger911

Glad to help, Steve. Good luck and enjoy the new car.

cj10mu

The MF I was quoted is .00235 with a residual of 61% for a '06 325i sedan. The term is 36 with 12K miles/year. I'm thinking the MF seems very high and the residual a bit low. Thoughts?

dafreak1

I was just quoted an MF of .00215 and a residual of 60% for a loaded 335i coupe. List was 49,945 and negotiated (so far) is $48,900. This is for 36 months and 12K miles per year. Payment is $757 with taxes rolled in. Should I be able to do better then this?

ranger911

If the car is new, then it seems like a terrible deal. BMW is no longer making the 325 and a MF that equals more than 5.5% is just ridiculous. If the car is used that might explain the high rate. RV may or may not be right for a 325. 61% is correct for a 15K / 3 year lease for the 335 and, I think, the 328. It is probably a bit lower for a 325. Either way, I would pass.

ranger911

Again, MF seems way high.

dafreak1

Ranger, thanks. Should i be looking for an MF around .0015 or so? I need something to go on. Thanks.

ranger911

Anytime. Depends if it is a coupe or sedan. Check out post #1081. Somebody posted a link to lease rates. I locked in at .0018 on the 335 sedan with 1 security deposit and .0012 (I think) with 7 months security deposit. If rates come down I will re-negotiate when the car comes in.