BMW 3-Series Lease Questions

CarMan@Edmunds

You're very welcome, Brian.

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CarMan@Edmunds

Welcome hana80. Since you are new to the world of leasing, you definitely should check out the following informative articles that are available here at Edmunds.com prior to visiting any dealers: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car and Calculate Your Own Lease Payment.

I see that the dealer quoted you a payment that includes a large down payment. I always advise consumers not to make large down payments when leasing. Those who make them risk losing them if their vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen and never recovered. Even though it means that your monthly payment will be slightly higher, you would be much better off going with a zero down lease.

It is difficult for me to know what a good monthly payment would be for this car without knowing what its MSRP is. You don't even need the dealer to get this information. It is available right here at Edmunds.com over in the New Vehicle Pricing section. While you are there, grab the dealer invoice price of the car that you want as well. Let me know what both of these numbers are and I will calculate a sample lease payment on the exact car that you want for you.

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CarMan@Edmunds

Greetings plasmator. BMW just introduced its new January lease program a couple of days ago. Through March 2nd, BMW Financial Services' buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 328i Wagon with 10,000 miles per year are .00215 and 58%, respectively. BMW is not currently providing any cash incentives on this model.

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CarMan@Edmunds

I'm glad that you've found the information in this discussion so helpful, joesao. BMW just introduced its new January lease program a couple of days ago. Here's the latest information in case you are still interested.

BMW Financial Services' current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 328i with 10,000 miles per year are .00175 and 60%.

The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of a 2008 328i are .00075 and 57%.

The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of a 2008 335i are .00085 and 57%.

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CarMan@Edmunds

Hey joesao. BMW Financial Services charges a $725 acquisition fee on every vehicle that it leases. You will not be able to get out of paying this charge. You can either pay it at lease signing or add it to your car's capitalized cost to bake it into your monthly payment. Keep an eye out for dealers trying to mark this fee up. BMW dealers are notorious for trying to slip a couple hundred dollars extra in profit into this charge.

Here's the latest program info for you. BMW Financial Services' current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 328i with 10,000 miles per year are .00175 and 60%, respectively.

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amylock

Hi! does anyone know what the lease Money Factors and Residuals are for the 2009 335i for 36 months and 15,000 per year? I keep getting jerked around at the dealerships - I currently have a 2006 lease 330i and I am not getting any love on the loylaty stuff either.

Many thanks!

Amy

byrne222

Car_man,
While you are researching the MF's for 2009, can you provide the 36 month, 15k miles/year MF and residuals for:
2009 328 XDrive Sedan
2009 335 XDrive Sedan

also if handy;
2008 328 Xi Sedan
2008 335 XI Sedan

Thanks for the assist.
- Max

skinso

Hi everyone, i got a quote yesterday for a 2009 328i coupe, with Preimum, Sport, Cold Weather, Navigation, and I-pod Adapter with a MSRP $46,300 and a sale price of $44,500, with $2000 drive off, and $615/month plus tax for 36months and 10k miles per year. the salesman told me that the residual value is 61%, i did not get the money factor, i m just wondering if this deal is reasonable or not?

joesao

Car_man, thanks so much for all the info. Wow, the money factor really jumped, it seems, and the residual dropped from 63% to 60%. Pretty ugly effect, financially.

Thanks!

firstlease

I just signed for a 2008 335i with NAV, sport, premium and most options
MSRP is 49390 (car was from April 2008-must have had price increase later?)
sell price is 44090
add tire warranty, mats and tint for 895
I was not told but the MF is .00145 (I locked in 2008 lease rates)
0 down, monthly payment is $689 including tax?

Is this a good deal, i want to feel good about it. I see the MF is much lower now on 2008's but the dealer also said the residual dropped 2 points. Is it a wash?

Thank you

davidt1

Hi Car_man,

I signed a lease on January 2nd to lock in the December rates on a 2009 328CIC convertible. The rates I received were .0020 MF and 61% residual for a 12K/36 month lease as you had supplied to me last month. The car is now on order for delivery by end of Feb. The dealer is willing to give me a lower rate if BMWFS drops thier rates in Jan or Feb. Can you please let me know the new Jan rates? By the way, just coming into effect in January, BMW raised the prices by a few hundred dollars on their cars...I just squeeked in under the wire.

Thanks Again,

David T

whichluxurycar

I am in Texas and interested in a lease (or smart-buy/baloon note), which ever is better economically.

I'm still debating between the 328CIC and the 335CIC. I am looking for a lease ~36 months and ~10k mile/year allowance.

Whenever anyone has the residual and lease factors (or the res and smart buy interest rate), I would very much appreciate having these.

Finally, is there any reason to expect a structural move to these rates in February?

amylock

OK - Got the new car this weekend. BADA$$!

The residual on a 15k lease for the 2009 335i is 56% and the base rate money factor is .00200.

Amy

joesao

Car_man,

Thanks a lot for clarifying the acquisition fee. You say it's $725 and that's what I'm telling dealers, and they're pushing me saying I'm $100 off!

It helps to have good info to push back. I can't believe how much these guys try to stuff fees into their numbers.

Here's one more:
- I'm being quoted a $925 "Bank fee" -- does everybody pay this or is this another profit center for the dealer?

Thanks!

joesao

Car_man, sorry for the double post, but here's another one I just got from another dealer:

"do not forget to add to invoice price these items: floor mats, gas, predelivery inspection and a BMW Center advertisement group charge which amounts to $950 total."

Is this another BS fee?

kyfdx

Bank fee = acquisition fee

One and the same... $725 is the base fee, and they can mark it up to $925 for extra profit..

kyfdx

On 3-series.. floor mats are not included..

Full tank of gas: Included

PDI: Seriously? Just what are they doing for the money?

Advertising aka MACO: A legitimate charge on their invoice.. Are you asking for an Invoice + deal? If so, then that has to be accounted for (usually $300-$400). But, if they are trying to add that on to an already negotiated price, then tell them to pound sand..

regards,
kyfdx

joesao

kyfdx,
Thanks for the replies.
Invoice + deal: thanks to you and the other good folks on this forum, we are able to get educated on how to negotiate these deals, and my understanding (to state the obvious) is that we always want to aim at invoice + deals and get the closest to invoice possible.

The BMW dealers in my area -- all three -- are probably used to ripping people off because they're all quoting me MSRP even though I'm being very clear to them that I know the invoice price, MF and residual. So I've been through many email rounds of negotiations finding out all these hidden fees which I've asked you about.

Sounds like advertising is another BS fee and that I should only pay $725 acquisition fee.

This $725 plus the invoice cost of the car as configured constitutes "invoice" as a starting point in the negotiations. Anything above is profit to the dealer, correct?

joesao

kyfdx,
To scrutinize the inception fees, what's legit here?
I'm being quoted:

- First monthly payment (ok, seems legit
- License & registration $110.00
- MVWEA $2.00 (no idea what this is)
- Rental surcharge $60
- Tire $5
- Battery $1.50
- Tag agency fee $20
- Tag processing fee $95
- Cap reduction tax $4.38
- State tax on fees $9.69
- County tax on fees $1.62
- Count cap red tax 0.73
- Customer cash as cap reduction $72.99

Incidentally, the total here (including the first month's payment) adds up to exactly 1,000 which is what I told the dealer would be my maximum out of pocket.

I made it clear that I would only pay tag, title, taxes, and first month's payment. I find it fascinating that he was able to conjure up enough other fees and taxes to make the number add up perfectly.

Therefore, I am inclined to believe that some of these are BS fees. Which ones?

CarMan@Edmunds

Hi Amy. Here's the information that you're looking for. BMW Financial Services' January buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 335i with 15,000 miles per year are .00200 and 56%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds

Hi Max. BMW Financial Services' current buy rate lease money factor for a 36 month lease of a 2009 328i xDrive Sedan with 15,000 miles per year are .00175 and 57%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease on an '09 335i xDrive Sedan are .00200 and 56%.

BMW FS' 36 month, 15k numbers for the '08 328xi Sedan are .00115 and 54%. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of an '08 335xi Sedan are .00130 and 54%.

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CarMan@Edmunds

No problem, joesao. Yep, I've spoken with several BMW dealers who are pretty annoyed that the January programs are so much worse than the December program was. Oh well, if sales are bad enough, they'll just have to crank the support back up again.

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CarMan@Edmunds

Hi David. You were smart to lock in BMW's December lease program. It was better than the January program is. BMW Financial Services' January buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 328Ci Convertible with 12,000 miles per year are .00205 and 60%, respectively. Not only is the lease program worse, but as you mentioned BMW raised prices on January as well. Needless to say, BMW dealers are not pleased.

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kyfdx

I don't know every fee for your state, but none of those raise any red flags. There could be some padding in there, but if so, it's minimal. The reason it came out to exactly $1000? Customer cash as cap reduction $72.99 The fees actually came out to a little less.. They just used the excess to reduce the CAP cost of your lease (a downpayment).

regards,
kyfdx

peteynorge

Why is the money factor so different from the current interest rate they're offering? For example, a money factor of .00200 is translated into an interest rate of 4.8% (right?), but they are currently offering 2.9% on 2009 335i sedans. Is there any way to bargain down the money factor to be comparable to a 2.9% interest rate (0.00120 MF)?
In general, are the money factor and residual you mentioned just the advertised numbers, and can you possibly negotiate them, or are they final numbers?
Thanks in advance

CarMan@Edmunds

Hi peteynorge. Manufacturers' special financing rates and special lease money factors are often significantly different. The lower finance rate indicates to me that either BMW is spending so much money in residual value support that it isn't willing to provide any more support to buy down its money factors OR that it would much rather have consumers finance its vehicles than lease them because leasing leaves them open to potentially large residual value losses down the road.

The money factors and residual values that I mention in these forums are the best available deal. Dealers do not have the authority to alter banks' published residual values, but they are often allowed to mark up their money factors to add additional, hidden back-end profit to deals. BMW dealers are notorious for marking up money factors. This is why it is important that you check that you are being charged the buy rate any time you lease one.

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banker2

I agree the January programs are significantly different than December. For example, I was looking to lease a 2009 328i sedan.......in December, the money factor was .00150 (3.6%) and the residual was 62% for a 36 mo. lease with 12K miles/year. In January, I was told the money factor is now .00230 (5.5%) and the residual was 60%. The increase in money factor and and decrease in residual created a $75 difference in payment amount, all other things being equal. I understand the residual going down a bit since we've rolled over to a new year, but I'm surprised BMWFS is raising rates right now when interest rates in general are coming down. Maybe they are cutting production sufficiently to hold their ground on some of their terms? I'm holding out and will look for something else in the meantime.

peteynorge

Does anyone have an educated guess on if the MF and residual values will get better or worse? According to bmwusa.com, the current lease offers are good through March 2nd. Any ideas on what the rates might be after March 2nd? I'm trying to decide if I should just lease now or wait till after March 2nd.

topgun7

"The BMW dealers in my area -- all three -- are probably used to ripping people off because they're all quoting me MSRP even though I'm being very clear to them that I know the invoice price, MF and residual. "

I think you get it mix up. Just becaue you know the cost of how much they pay for the car does not mean they have to sell it at invoice + x dollars (fill in the blank for your favorite x). Car price are supply and demand driven and it is very local in nature. If dealer has customers line up to take delivery of a particular car at MSRP, why would he want to sell you the car at invoice + x? In the same token, if he has large number of cars sittting on his lots, he will be much more willing to lower the price.. The best way is to shop around. If there is only 3 dealerships around your area, best way is to widen your search to neighboring city. At the extreme case, you can fly to LA and pick up a car there. LA seems to be the most competitive area for most any cars.. Good luck.

lamanc

I appreciate all the great advice on this forum. I wish I'd known about it sooner!

Anyway, I'm looking to lease a 335i sedan for 36 months w/12k miles a year. I've seen an 09 advertised locally for $699 a month inc. tax for premium, sport, ipod adapter etc., with $2,000 drive off. Is that a good deal?

I'm in Southern California so I have plenty of dealers to choose from. Before I visit any, can someone tell me what I need to ask and how will I know if I'm getting a good deal?

Thanks!

joesao

I just heard of a new $1,500 rebate on 2009 328i's that are in stock. I knew some sort of "stimulus" from the mother ship would come because BMW has piling inventories across the US. Any other news out there? Has the MF or residual been changed for February? Is it expected to change, in addition to this rebate? Thanks.

desi1

Hello,

My 36-month, 36,000-mile lease will be up in July this year. During a recent service, I learned that my rear Bridgestone Potenzas are worn out and will need to be replaced (almost 28,000 miles). Front are borderline and per the dealer would likely carry me through for another 3-4K miles, which I will end up driving until July.

Should I get the dealer to replace them? I shopped around (Toledo, OH) and there isn't much difference in prices compared to other local tire shops.

Are used tires available? I just feel bad and don't want to replace them with new, just to turn around and return the car.

Any other options or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thank you and have a great day.

jak51

Well you may be able to replace them with used but good luck finding some that would satisfy BMW upon lease return.

I would go to tirerack.com and look up your tires. From what I saw there your OEM tires are quite expensive. They have many different brands that are available and you don't have to put the same brand on the vehicle just the same size. You could find the cheapest new tires and put them on because if you let the dealer replace them to meet the lease turn in requirements they will be no such thing as inexpensive.

gone4aride

Hello,

Could someone please tell me what the current BMWFS MF and residuals are for 36 month, 36,000 mile and 30,000 mile leases on an 09 328i Sportwagon?

Thank you.

cdnpinhead

You have two choices:

1) Go to message #2137 in this discussion and follow the suggestions

2) Wait for CarMan to answer your questions

One's quicker than the other.

Good luck.

desi1

Thanks Jak51.

I looked at tirerack.com per your suggestions and saw other cheaper options; however, they did not indicate that they were RFTs.

I vaguely remember that all 4 tires need to match, so if I replaced the rear ones with non-RFTs and with a different brand name tires, would that cause problems at lease-end?

jak51

desi1,

The tires were probably not run flat as you stated. It does show at the tirerack site if the tires are run flat or not for each tire. The print is kind of tiny but it is there. I would call BMW financial direct and find out if they have to be run flats. I have the feeling that they probably are going to have to be but I would want to get that information directly from BMW.

Unfortunately this is one of the downsides to leasing regarding the tires. Those OEM tires on that BMW do not have a long tread life and they are expensive. It might be cheaper to find a inexpensive brand of run flats where you can replace all four and be still be money ahead?

Anyway call BMW financial and get the low down directly from them.

CarMan@Edmunds

Hi peteynorge. While BMW Financial Services' lease program for the 3-Series is scheduled to run through March 2nd, BMW did just make an unscheduled enhancement to its program. It introduced a $1,500 cash incentive on deals that are run through BMW FS. Make sure to take this cash into account when negotiating your car's selling price.

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CarMan@Edmunds

Hi lamanc. The best way to get a good deal on a lease is to focus on dealers' two main profit centers, your vehicle's selling price and the money factor that is being used to calculate its monthly payment. If these things are attractive you are likely getting as good a deal as possible.

The selling price of leased vehicles are negotiable, just as if you were paying cash for or financing them. BMW just introduced a $1,500 cash incentive on leases of '09 3-Series models. After taking this cash into account, you should be able to negotiate a selling price that's below dealer invoice. You can look up the invoice price of the exact car that you want over in the New Vehicle Pricing section of this site.

Once you have arrived at a selling price that you are happy with, have the dealer calculate your car's monthly payment using its buy rate lease money factor. BMW Financial Services' current buy rate for a 36 month lease of an '09 335i Sedan is .00200.

One more thing. Make sure to pay attention to the acquisition fee that the dealer tacks onto your deal. BMW dealers are notorious for marking this fee up. The base fee is $725.

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CarMan@Edmunds

Hi joesao. What you heard is correct. BMW added $1,500 on the 3-Series a few days ago. I believe that its lease money factors and residuals remained the same. They are scheduled to run through March 2nd, but I suppose that it is possible BMW might change them in February.

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CarMan@Edmunds

Here you go, gone4aride. BMW Financial Services' current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 BMW 328i Sport Wagon with 12,000 miles per year are .00215 and 57%, respectively. The money factor for a lease with only 10,000 miles per year is the same, but its residual value is 1% higher.

When negotiating your lease on this car, make sure to take advantage of the newly introduced $1,500 cash incentive on it.

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ledgem81

I'm reading all over the place about the new incentive. I ordered a 328xi Coupe and it is on its way to the States. I put down a $500 deposit, but I am curious if I can somehow still take advantage of this incentive? I highly highly doubt I can, but I still thought I'd ask.

kyfdx

Sold orders don't qualify..

Only unsold dealer stock...

regards,
kyfdx

tmchow

I've been on the lookout in the past for a good lease deal on a fully loaded 335i Coupe, but the current deals aren't as good as I expected. So now, I"m considering a CPO.

The guy responsible for web sales has been emailing me and has a 2008 fully loaded 335i Coupe in White, listed at $43k. He says there are no deals through BMWFS at all right now, which I found surprising given my friend just bought out his e46 M3 at the end of his lease term last month and got 1.9% financing and they dropped his residual down by $7k.

Anyone have any information on (a) how much room I could negotiate these days on a CPO and (b) any BMWFS financing deals on CPO?

bvdj84

I wouldn't buy new tires for it. Its a lease. You should have enough turn in damage lee way to not get too hurt by it. The tires should last the whole lease, depending on driving. Premature wear. BMW might have different policies. But, I have never bought new tires for a leased car, but then again I have never kept it long enough either...lol.

Let us know what happens, and what new car you get.

kyfdx

I think the charge for worn-out tires on a 3-series is either $150 or $200 each.. Your dealer can tell you...

If your tires will last until the end of the lease, it will probably be cheaper to just pay the penalty, rather than buy new ones, after accounting for mounting/balancing..

Plus, you might get lucky and only get assessed for two tires, instead of four....

Ignore this advice if your tires are dangerously worn now..

banker2

Can anyone provide the current money factor and residual value on a 2009 328i sedan?

cbp1

Is the residual shown in a lease "set in concrete" or is the amount negotiable? Is this something left up to the dealership or BMW mandated? The lease is up on my 2006 330i in a few months and I'm trying to decide whether to purchase or not. Thanks so much for the help.

outie

Hi, I am interested in a leasing a M3 with European delivery. Does BMW use the current lease factors (say I am ordering 6mo ahead) or will it be determined at the time of pickup? Thanks.

banker2

At the inception of the lease, the residual is set by BMWFS and can't be negotiated. At the end of the lease, some financial institutions will negotiate the residual value if you want to buy the car, some won't. I've heard more often that they will not. At best, it is difficult to get to someone with the leasing co. who can even make that decision. The residual value is contained in a contract with the leasing company, so the dealer can't negotiate it - it has to be the leasing co. I just tried several times to negotiate the residual value at lease-end on an Infiniti, and was told no several times. It seems crazy-they will end up taking a bigger loss that way, because you end up turning the car in and they sell it at auction for thousands less than you might be willing to pay as a retail buyer and someone who knows the car. If you really like the car, I'd keep asking........in this economy they should be willing to listen.