There should be no difference in your negotiation over price with a purchase versus a lease. Leases are more complicated because of money factor, but everything else is the same with a purchase.
I agree, Do not see a reason to buy the diesel, if you want to save few bucks than a Honda or Toyota will save you money not a a German car. Here is my few cents on the topic. 1- Diesel is slower and sluggish and less responsive than the x5 3.5 gas 2- The Msrp savings are about 1000 only when comparing same options 3- You get the old 6 speed transmission, no 8 speed which is in x5 3.5 gas. No one will tell you that. Therefore your are getting a lower price on the car 4- In California diesel is 15 cents more expensive than premium gas and the spread will be wider overtime. Oil companies have to account for cannbilzation, therefor they have to raise the price of diesel to of set the efficiency of the engine. Otherwise they will sell less gallons of fuel which means less profit 5- the diesel car is heavier which means it stops slower and handels inferior to the x5 gas 6- the sound of engine is ugly compared to the amazing BMW gas engine 7- all BMW salespeople and many members of this forum who are affiliated with BMW want to push the diesel product, because is not desirable and they make more money on it. 8- the tourqe story is exaggerated and used for marketing. This is for towing uphill, what is the point if the car is powerful but not as responsive as gas. Still gas is more than 1 second faster to 60 with less tourqe. 9- When leasing the residual on the diesel is less than gas. Gas is 60% diesel is lower about 58%
Again, to each their own, but about half of your rationale is full of crap.
(1) Diesel is comparable or quicker 40-80 than the 3.5i gas. (2) MSRP difference is at least $1,500 with eco credit, apples to apples. (3) No one hid the fact that it's a 6 speed from me. You don't need 8 gears when you have 425 ft. lbs of torque over a broad rev band and the redline is 5,000 rpm. (4) In DC and all the areas I travel in, diesel is 5-15+ cents LESS than premium, in most cases closer to mid-grade. (5) The weight difference in the diesel is under 5% and virtually imperceptible re: handling on a track, let alone in everyday driving. I know, I drove it and the X5 3.5i at the BMW Performance Delivery Center. Want to save 600+ lbs, buy the Cayenne, not the X5 3.5i. That's a difference you can feel. (6) The sound of the engine is nearly non-existent behind the wheel. And you don't have to listen to the sound of the gas pump clinging away your dollars 40% faster. (7) BMW overselling the diesel?? Just the opposite. I had to ask about the diesel and did all my own research w/o any BMW salespeople pushing me towards it. (8) Can only conclude this is a statement based upon ignorance and no first hand driving experience. Or at least not through the serious paces I put the vehicle through when test driving against everything from a Cayenne to Q7 to X5M. (9) I don't lease and I keep my vehicles for an average of 8-10+ years (except for "fun" cars). There is no doubt in my mind that, under that scenario, the economics of the diesel look better than the gas.
Again, I value performance and handling as much or more than the next guy. I am currently in the market for a replacement for my 911S that I sold last April, and spent Saturday test driving a new 911S, Boxster S and M3. The X5 3.5i is a great vehicle and you would never hear me say or argue otherwise. I just happen to think the X5d is an even better vehicle and value. Porsche is charging a $4k premium for their Cayenne diesel, and it is getting tremendous positive press and reviews. By comparison, the X5d is a no brainer. If you only have one vehicle to buy and somehow think that the sound of a diesel engine on the outside of the vehicle is offensive, you could do a lot worse than getting a X5 3.5i. On the other hand, I'll take the X5d and use it like a great handling, great performing, very fuel efficient SUV. And save my sports car needs for another Porsche or alternative.
Ok, so I know everyone gets emotional on these boards, but I'm really looking for some insight from people with BMW knowledge. We've had Mercedes for many years and now we are looking an X5 diesel straight in the eyes/halos. I get the money factor and residual, but what is realistic to get the price down to?
Edmunds TMV shows $57k, which includes the ECO credit I assume, but others are getting invoice minus ECO? We get USAA ($1k) and the rest is good old fashioned negotiating as we don't have loyalty. For a roughly $64k X5d, I was offered discounts of ECO, USAA, and another because it's service loaner, but to me it seems that we should be able to get at least a few thousand off sticker in addition to the ECO, USAA, and any allowance for a few thousand miles. Is this in line or out of line? It ends up being about $10k - $11k off MSRP is what I'm shooting for and then work the lease. Comments appreciated.
Our X5d that we custom ordered had an MSRP of $63,845 - SAV, Premium, BMW Apps and running boards. We got a discount of $3,550, plus the $4,500 eco credit and a $1,000 drive event discount. Net price before taxes $54,795. Hope this helps.
I am not a big fan of buying demo's or service loaners, unless the additional discount is compelling (a few thousand $+). I want to know that the car has been broken in properly (preferably by me), or at least has not been driven by 50 different drivers, some of whom might have been auditioning for the next jackass movie. If you can swing it, do the custom order, get exactly what you want, and pick it up at the Performance Delivery Center in Spartanburg. With 0.2 miles on the odometer.
Just bought an X-5 Premium with Convenience Package. MSRP $60,195 Purchase Price 52,195. I thought this was a very good price. I traded in a 5 year old Mercedes ML350. I'm sure they got be for some $ on my trade in. I was able to get 1.74% financing so I added tire protection, dent wizard and appearance package which added about $25 to my monthly payment. I went in intending to lease, but ended up buying the car as the lease numbers were getting too confusing with lots of misc fees that I didn't like. Buying the car was more straight forward.
Amazing Deal. Was this a Diesel or gas? Are you sure on the numbers? Its almost 13% off the msrp. Which dealer did you get it from? Anyone else getting it for so cheap. Please respond.
Well as you can read a couple posts up we were interested in this, so now we have one. Or we will tomorrow. Painless process with a dealer in Northern Ohio. A little drive, but it makes the ride home in the new car all the better. Details:
MSRP: $63745 Sell: $55540
Standard money factor and residual for $695 payment with tax (6%) and only first payment and fees due. Has cold weather, Prem, Prem Sound, spare tire, apps. Went with Platinum gray over oyster. Thanks for the advise, now we can compare BMW to Benz in real time.
It's a gas. Got it @ Vista in Coconut Creek, FL. The numbers are accurate. Like I said they probably got me for some $ on my trade in, but I still felt I got a good deal. It's white with beige interior. It's the color combo I was looking for. I've had the car for 2 weeks and love it.
Here's the information that you're looking for mralbury. BMW Financial Services' October buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 24-month lease of a 2013 X5 5.0i with 10,000 miles per year are .00135 and 68% for consumers who qualify for its top credit tiers.
The numbers for an otherwise identical 30-month lease are .00135 and 65%.
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I've never leased in the past, but may consider it if I decide to go for the Tesla Model S that we have now been notified is ready for us to "build" after having had one on deposit for 8 months. As such a couple of questions to make sure I'm not missing something in the math on the terms you have quoted to mralbury above.
For simplicity, using a $70,000 "net" selling price, nothing down and no taxes, I come up with:
$1,012.71 payment on 24 months / 20,000 miles. Or $24,305 over 2 years. $894.63 payment on 30 months / 25,000 miles. Or $26,839 over 2.5 years.
It looks like you are getting whacked for 1.33% depreciation per month for the first 24 months; only 0.5% per month for the next 6 months (68%/65% residuals) correct?
Another way of looking at it, the last 6 months only cost $2,535 or the equivalent $422.50 per month when you go from the 24 to 30 month term, correct?
Begs the question as to why anyone would do a 24 vs. 30 month lease? I'd love to have the ability to buy a second lightly used X5d just like the one we bought for $54,800 new, for $37,265, this time in 2014. But I guess that's what makes the leasing companies profitable.
Is my math correct? Do leases generally give the lessor the right to buy the vehicle at the residual price (or assign that right)?
I was wondering if I could get some feedback from people on some numbers I got for my lease from BMW of Boston.
2013 BMW X5 xDrive50i: MSRP $75,170 (cold weather, luxury seating, premium, premium sound, sport activity, and technology packages, and BMW apps). Final price $72,000. 30 months/10,000 miles per year. $3,000 down, 0.00155 mf, and 65% residual. Lease price of $899/month including taxes (6.25%).
I just unloaded my 2011 X5D for me, at idle and take off it was to noisy . as for power way more then enough. diesel in CA avg about the same give or take 10 cents.
avoid the 20 ..rims way to easy to ding and if you go with those OEM tires. they are $600 a pop.
I guess I'm glad that either I'm hard of hearing or simply don't find the sound of the diesel an issue. It's certainly no worse than any Mercedes or the q7. Maybe it was from my previously owning a 911 with the $2,500 optional sport exhaust? Our MDX sounds more strained under harder acceleration, especially given its need to downshift more than the x5.
We opted to stick with 19" rims on the sport activity package. Tire Rack sells the 20" tires for not much more than the 19's but the 20's wear out 30% faster.
I am looking at leasing a 2012 BMW X5 diesel. MSRP is $66,195. The lease would be structured as a 36-month lease with 15,000 year (0.00145 MF; 54% residual).
The car that I am looking at is a demo with 3,000 miles. The car was previously damaged by hail while sitting on the dealer's lot. While the car has been repaired, it nevertheless has a dirty carfax history report.
Using Truecar and simply calling dealers in the area, I am able to get $9,000 off MSRP without much negotiation. In some markets (i.e., New York, I am seeing people get $10,500 off the price of this vehicle).
Given the demo and the dirty carfax report (hail), what should my target purchase price be? Currently, the dealer is willing to take only $10,500 off.
How much flexibility does the dealer have in light of the hail damage? My guess is that they repaired onsite for significantly less than what they would have received from any insurance proceeds. But maybe I am wrong.
The vehicle you are considering would appear to have an invoice price of roughly $60,900; meaning about a $5,300 markup on the MSRP. There is a $4,500 eco-credit from BMW on top of that and you didn't indicate whether or not you qualify for any other credits or rebates (loyalty, drive events , USAA, etc). Let's assume you don't. I could order a brand new version of that vehicle tomorrow for $8,800 off MSRP ($1,000 over invoice). My exact color choices, option choices, etc.
In my opinion, even if the vehicle had no hail damage and was in pristine condition, a demo with 3,000 miles would need to be discounted by at least another $2,500 or more (that's only 5%) for me to consider it over a brand new vehicle. With the hail damage, I'm not sure I would take it at any price but if I did, I'd be looking for another $2,000+ off. You might not care as much if you are leasing, but I don't want to take a damaged vehicle if I'm buying.
So, by my thinking, you would need to be at $13,000 discount, PLUS any other discounts or credits you qualify for, before I'd say "go for it". The deal you have been quoted, $10,500 off, is not compelling enough, in my opinion.
You're not really getting a very good deal, you can almost get that discount on a vehicle without a bad carfax report and no damage. I personally wouldn't buy it if they gave me $15k off msrp.
Your comments helped to confirm what I had been thinking. I am at discount of at least $13,000 for this vehicle (in light of the hail). I'll keep you posted.
Just want to make clear that my suggested discount would be at least $13k, PLUS any other discounts or credits you qualify for. We got the $1,000 Olympic drive event credit from the summer; others are getting $750 loyalty discounts, BMW Apps drive credit (?), USAA insurance credits.
Also didn't ask if that vehicle is exactly what you want, color wise an option wise. When we were shopping, several dealers offered discounts that were a little better if we took what they had on their lots. But and extra $500 off is not worth it, IMO, if you are going to get stuck with a color combo you don't like, or extra options that you don't really care about. For example, almost all X5's here have the cold weather package at $750, which only adds heated REAR seats (heated front seats are standard), steering wheel, etc. By ordering our car to exact specs, we left that box unchecked. Just not worth it to us.
Sounds like you might be from southern California, in which case picking up a custom ordered vehicle at the Performance Delivery Center may not be practical. But it's the only way I will ever buy another new BMW of any flavor.
Hi habitat1. New vehicles typically experience their most rapid depreciation during the first year of ownership. This usually makes short leases more expensive than longer one. Longer leases provide another several months for lessees to spread out that initial depreciation hit out over. Another aspect of shorter leases that's annoying is that one has to pay all sorts of registration, acquisition fees, etc when they sign a lease. The shorter a lease is, the sooner one has to pay all of those upfront costs again on their next lease. I personally always lease for 36 to 39 months. I find that provides a reasonable payment, but it not too long.
Consumers always have the ability to purchase their leased vehicle at the end of their terms for their vehicles' residual value. Some banks have been known to even negotiate this price lower from time to time, though it seems as though this happens less frequently today than it did in the past. One bank, Ally, charges consumers a massive, annoying fee to purchase their vehicles, but most do not.
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You're welcome mralbury. I'd say that you're at probably around $2,000 or so over invoice. That's not terrible, but if you are in an area that has a decent level of competition you should be able to beat that.
Also, if you're eligible for it, make sure to take advantage of the $750 owner loyalty cash that is currently available on this model.
Lastly, the money factor that you were quoted is slightly high. BMW Financial Services' current buy rate for this model is only .00135 for consumers who qualify for its top credit tiers. Make sure that the dealer uses this rate to calculate your truck's payment.
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I would like to know what the MF and residual are for the following:
2012 BMW X5 xDrive35d (36/10,000) 2013 BMW X5 xDrive35d (36/10,000)
Also, what's a decent discount on this vehicle? I know BMW is offering $4500 Eco credit and $1500 holiday credit. Correct me if I'm wrong but the dealer gets reimbursed for these credits, right? So it's not like they're discounting the car.
I don't think there is a 2013 X5d yet. Was just in my delaership and they have 2 remaining build slots for 2012 X5d and no information on the 2013, which may not be released until after the current redesign process is complete.
When I go to BMW USA "Build your own" site, the X5i's are all 2013 model years, but the X5d still shows as a 2012.
To answer your question about discounts and credits, YES those are after the best discount you can negotiate with the dealer. We were at roughly $1,000 over invoice for a custom ordered vehicle, meaning that after the $4,500 eco credit and $1,000 Olympic drive for USA coupon, we netted out to roughly $4,500 UNDER invoice.
Good luck and please advise if you have any factual information about a 2013 MY X5d that I am not aware of?
This is my 1st post. I have an offer from 1 of the dealers and would appreciate if you can inform me if this sounds like a good deal.. I know I can further negotiate and get it at invoice as they offered me X3 at invoice. My concern is the monthly payments and residual value.
X5 35i premium with convenience pkg, cold weather, bmw apps
Here's the information that you're looking for, j335d. BMW Financial Services' November buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36-month lease of a 2013 X5 Diesel with 12,000 miles per year are .00135 and 53% for consumers who qualify for its top credit tiers.
The residual value for a lease with 10,000 miles per year would be 1% higher.
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I am now looking for a '12 X5d in order to take advantage of BMW's current pull-ahead program and the larger Eco-credit ($4500 vs $3000). In this regard, can you pls provide Nov BMWFS residual and buy rate MF for 24 and 36 month, 10k miles/year lease on the '12 X5d?
For the others reading this, if I am not mistaken, other current incentives include holiday cash, loyalty cash, and BMW ultimate drive app credit. Amounts vary by model and your BMWFS status.
Sure j335d. I didn't think that the 2013 diesel was out yet. BMW usually publishes a lease program prior to new models hitting the ground so that dealers can give consumers who order an idea of what their payments will be like.
BMW Financial Services' November buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 24-month lease of a 2012 X5d with 10,000 miles per year are...hmmm I'm not sure that BMW is providing lease support on the '12 X5 any longer. If it is, its program for it is probably .00135 and 60% for 24 months and .00135 and 54% for 36 months.
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Just got this quote from dealer for 2013 X5 Premium with convenience package (ZCV), XM radio, BMW Apps and running boards. MSRP is $60,595, total capitalized cost is $56,840, MF is .00135 and Residual is 55%. The lease is for 12K/year for 39 months. With all the rebates factored in, cash due at signing is $2,328 with monthly payment of $650 + tax.
Does anybody know if there is a 24 month lease option on the 2012 35D? If so, would love to know what the MF and residual is for 10k and 12k miles per year. Thanks so much!
Hi warbern. Yes, you can lease any BMW for 24-months if you really want to. Of course, generally speaking the shorter your lease term is, the higher your monthly payment will be.
The last time I saw them, BMW Financial Services' buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 24-month lease of a 2012 X5 35D with 12,000 miles per year were .00145 and 59% for consumers who qualify for its top credit tier. The money factor may be slightly different right now. The residual value for a lease with only 10,000 miles per year would be 1% higher.
There is a total of around $6,000 in cash incentives plus $750 loyalty cash on this truck in November.
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Can you tell me what are the residual value and money factor for a 39 month/10K lease. Any other incentive than the $1500 Holiday credit? I am going to return my MB ML350 lease so don't qualify for the loyalty rebate. Any kind of "competition capture" rebate? Finally how much off MSRP would be considered a good deal for this car? I tried to lease a new MB ML350 with no success because of its popularity (could only get $4500 off MSRP including the $1500 MB Winter rebate) and wonder if I should expect the same experience here or hopefully a better one
Test drove the X5 35i premium yesterday. Looking at convience package and satellite radio. I am waiting for December leasing rates 24 0r 36 months at 12K per year. MRSP about $60,000. The 2 dealers near me tend to not be competitive, but there was inventory sitting on their lot compared to 2 years ago. This vehicle has great handling. The MB ML 350 is right up there with this vehicle. VERY disappointed with the infiniti JX as it was underpowered. Could be CVT transmission. Inside of JX was excertional.
I'm sure you're aware that you're comparing the older 2nd generation X5 to brand new designs like the JX and the 3rd generation ML. The brand new 3rd generation X5 will be here in a few months. At that point you'll be driving an eight year old design if you buy an X5 now. This X5 should be massively incentivized to compensate for that.
What's "massively incentivized" in your opinion, given that there is still no definitive release date for the 3rd generation X5? My dealer is ordering new 2013 vehicles for customers at $1k or less over invoice. Less all of the incentives and cash back (i.e. holiday savings, eco-credit, loyalty credit, etc.), that will put the final net price below invoice, in the case of the X5d, by at least $5,000 below invoice. Perhaps if one wants to wait until the 3rd generation vehicles are on the lot, they will be able to get a good deal on a leftover 2013. But if they have to take an oddball color or options in the process, I'm not sure that's a great deal.
In my opinion, the bigger issue is whether you need/want a vehicle now and can live with the current X5 at a price that is somewhat to well below invoice, or you have the ability/patience to wait for the new generation to arrive (at least several months away) and are OK with paying a few thousand more. But it doesn't appear to me that BMW has flooded the market with 2nd generation X5's such that dramatically greater incentives than those already offered are highly likely. Obviously, I may be wrong on that, but it seems that my dealer, at least, is willing to offer good deals on ordered vehicles so they don't get stuck with unsold ones on their lot. Their current inventory of X5's is much less today than it was in July.
Habitat, If you knew anything about BMW production cycles, new model release processes and factory retooling you would already know about the new model release. You should try listening more instead of attacking people who have more experience with BMW than you do. Especially when we take the time to point out facts for people who may be new to BMW. At least now they can make an informed decision.
That deal you think you're getting can be had at any time. That's the standard deal on an X5 if you know how to negotiate. You would know that if you had done your homework and read the buying advice in this forum. It doesn't change the fact that this X5 is old and will be obsolete in a year and you are not being compensated for buying at the tail end of a 7 year production run.
Listen bmwfan, I took delivery of my X5d at the Performance Delivery Center in September, hit the track in the morning and and spent another 2 hours getting what amounted to a semi-private tour of the BMW factory with just the plant manager and one of the driving instructors. I know all about the X5 new model release, firsthand - likely a hell of a lot more than you have gotten from reading rags, Roundel or this forum. So get off your oversized throne with your oversized self proclaimed expertise.
I didn't "attack" you in my previous post, I simply questioned whether there are going to be significantly greater incentives in the near future on current model X5's than there are today. As the plant manager pointed out, BMW has vastly improved its inventory controls and "just in time" manufacturing process to reduce the likelihood of excessive unsold vehicles. As for a current X5 being "obsolete" in a year, I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. I could have bought an Acura MDX Advance if I wanted every techno gadget known to man. I bought the X5 because of the driving dynamics and engineering. The new X5 will be evolutionary, not revolutionary. It won't change the basic fact that Acura still kills BMW in do-dads and BMW still kills just about everybody but Porsche in driving dynamics. I bought the BMW with the intention of keeping it 8-10+ years, without too much concern that a better i-drive or some sheet metal changes are going to make me feel like I need to trade it in next year. That strategy has worked pretty well for me in the past, and is at least a small part of the reason I can consider a 991 911 instead of an obsolete 997. Although the soon to be obsolete V8 M3 still has some appeal to me - assuming I'm fairly compensated, of course.
It's fine that you are a bmw fan and wish to offer your opinions and advise. But perhaps you should be less of a fanny, if you get my drift.
Although the current X5 has the same body style for the past few years, it is still a great drive. I look for the drive and handling not necessarily the newer technology. I have not found significant incentives and discounts for leasing. This vehicle is still moving off the lots, but I have noticed more inventory compared to 2 years ago. I believe it is important to wait at least a year after an updated model due to kinks needed to be worked out.
Even though I just bought a 2013 Cayenne diesel, I would agree that the 2012/13 X5d is an excellent choice - and very competitively priced with the current incentives. To me, the X5 gas models are much less of a "deal" and may need to be discounted more heavily as the 2014 model gets closer to reality.
Other than BMW, every other manufacturer - Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, VW - prices their diesels above the comparably equipped gas model by $1,500 to $3,000+. The X5d with its current $4,500 eco credit (which was only $2,500 when my son bought his 2010) puts it at least $1,500 under the comparably equipped X5 3.5i. I'm not sure why BMW has felt compelled to offer this significant of a discount on its diesel model. But if thats a vehicle that appeals to you and you can combine that with some of their other special offers and get a dealer to knock down their price to close to invoice, I'd have no trouble recommending going for it. I'm betting that a 2014 diesel will either have a much smaller eco-credit or none at all.
Hi Spirit. What made you purchase the Cayenne diesel over the X5? Did they discount the price? Can you state how much msrp and what you paid? How did the Cayenne diesel drive? Thanks.
I agree that the incentives on the X5d at this time are great. When the new model comes out I suspect the eco credit will be less or disappear. As always the key on the X5 leases is to negotiate a great cap cost. In addition there are significant regional differences in deals as evident on the posts on this site. When December leasing numbers come out then I will try to strike a deal. Enjoy your Cayenne, it is a great driving vehicle.
What made you purchase the Cayenne diesel over the X5?
Both are great, but I am drawn to Porsche's engineering and styling. I have a 911 and the interior of the new Cayenne is familiar and attractive. I have adaptive sport seats in both vehicles that are extraordinarily comfortable for long drives and well bolstered for more enthusiastic driving. I also think Porsche did a great job with the exterior in the Cayenne redesign. Don't need the moderately extra space of the X5, as most of my driving is alone or with 1-3 passengers (and golf clubs). I need an SUV for Pittsburgh winters, but not for carting half of a soccer team around. Been there, done that when our kids were younger.
The X5 seems a little quicker, the Cayenne handles and a little better; either one is far superior in driving dynamics to most other SUV's.
My MSRP worked out to about $75k, got a $4,000 courtesy discount, for being a multiple time previous customer. That's about $15-18k more than a comparably equipped X5d. Which, if you are on a more limited budget, is a hell of a great deal. Even though I am a Porsche guy, I would take the X5d over our sister offerings, the Q7 and VW TDI.
New to this site. I am ready to pull the trigger on a 2012 X5 diesel, MSRP of $67,800. With all the incentives the dealer has offered me $1770 down and $841/month (including Massachusetts taxes) for 36 months @ 12k miles/year.
I've shopped around and this is the best deal I have found. What say you?
I may be mis-remembering, but thought I saw in the Washington Post an ad by BMW of Rockville for a $549 per month 39 month 10k/year lease on a X5d. Down payment was $3,000. They don't show that deal on their web site, but show $599 per month for a well equipped X5 3.51 SAV: http://www.bmwrockville.com/financing/lease-offers.htm
Comments
Together we could score a better deal. Buying two X5s on the same day......they would've loved it......u know that I mean.
Here is my few cents on the topic.
1- Diesel is slower and sluggish and less responsive than the x5 3.5 gas
2- The Msrp savings are about 1000 only when comparing same options
3- You get the old 6 speed transmission, no 8 speed which is in x5 3.5 gas. No one will tell you that. Therefore your are getting a lower price on the car
4- In California diesel is 15 cents more expensive than premium gas and the spread will be wider overtime. Oil companies have to account for cannbilzation, therefor they have to raise the price of diesel to of set the efficiency of the engine. Otherwise they will sell less gallons of fuel which means less profit
5- the diesel car is heavier which means it stops slower and handels inferior to the x5 gas
6- the sound of engine is ugly compared to the amazing BMW gas engine
7- all BMW salespeople and many members of this forum who are affiliated with BMW want to push the diesel product, because is not desirable and they make more money on it.
8- the tourqe story is exaggerated and used for marketing. This is for towing uphill, what is the point if the car is powerful but not as responsive as gas. Still gas is more than 1 second faster to 60 with less tourqe.
9- When leasing the residual on the diesel is less than gas. Gas is 60% diesel is lower about 58%
(1) Diesel is comparable or quicker 40-80 than the 3.5i gas.
(2) MSRP difference is at least $1,500 with eco credit, apples to apples.
(3) No one hid the fact that it's a 6 speed from me. You don't need 8 gears when you have 425 ft. lbs of torque over a broad rev band and the redline is 5,000 rpm.
(4) In DC and all the areas I travel in, diesel is 5-15+ cents LESS than premium, in most cases closer to mid-grade.
(5) The weight difference in the diesel is under 5% and virtually imperceptible re: handling on a track, let alone in everyday driving. I know, I drove it and the X5 3.5i at the BMW Performance Delivery Center. Want to save 600+ lbs, buy the Cayenne, not the X5 3.5i. That's a difference you can feel.
(6) The sound of the engine is nearly non-existent behind the wheel. And you don't have to listen to the sound of the gas pump clinging away your dollars 40% faster.
(7) BMW overselling the diesel?? Just the opposite. I had to ask about the diesel and did all my own research w/o any BMW salespeople pushing me towards it.
(8) Can only conclude this is a statement based upon ignorance and no first hand driving experience. Or at least not through the serious paces I put the vehicle through when test driving against everything from a Cayenne to Q7 to X5M.
(9) I don't lease and I keep my vehicles for an average of 8-10+ years (except for "fun" cars). There is no doubt in my mind that, under that scenario, the economics of the diesel look better than the gas.
Again, I value performance and handling as much or more than the next guy. I am currently in the market for a replacement for my 911S that I sold last April, and spent Saturday test driving a new 911S, Boxster S and M3. The X5 3.5i is a great vehicle and you would never hear me say or argue otherwise. I just happen to think the X5d is an even better vehicle and value. Porsche is charging a $4k premium for their Cayenne diesel, and it is getting tremendous positive press and reviews. By comparison, the X5d is a no brainer. If you only have one vehicle to buy and somehow think that the sound of a diesel engine on the outside of the vehicle is offensive, you could do a lot worse than getting a X5 3.5i. On the other hand, I'll take the X5d and use it like a great handling, great performing, very fuel efficient SUV. And save my sports car needs for another Porsche or alternative.
Edmunds TMV shows $57k, which includes the ECO credit I assume, but others are getting invoice minus ECO? We get USAA ($1k) and the rest is good old fashioned negotiating as we don't have loyalty. For a roughly $64k X5d, I was offered discounts of ECO, USAA, and another because it's service loaner, but to me it seems that we should be able to get at least a few thousand off sticker in addition to the ECO, USAA, and any allowance for a few thousand miles. Is this in line or out of line? It ends up being about $10k - $11k off MSRP is what I'm shooting for and then work the lease. Comments appreciated.
I am not a big fan of buying demo's or service loaners, unless the additional discount is compelling (a few thousand $+). I want to know that the car has been broken in properly (preferably by me), or at least has not been driven by 50 different drivers, some of whom might have been auditioning for the next jackass movie. If you can swing it, do the custom order, get exactly what you want, and pick it up at the Performance Delivery Center in Spartanburg. With 0.2 miles on the odometer.
Good luck.
MSRP $60,195
Purchase Price 52,195. I thought this was a very good price.
I traded in a 5 year old Mercedes ML350. I'm sure they got be for some $ on my trade in.
I was able to get 1.74% financing so I added tire protection, dent wizard and appearance package which added about $25 to my monthly payment.
I went in intending to lease, but ended up buying the car as the lease numbers were getting too confusing with lots of misc fees that I didn't like. Buying the car was more straight forward.
MSRP: $63745
Sell: $55540
Standard money factor and residual for $695 payment with tax (6%) and only first payment and fees due. Has cold weather, Prem, Prem Sound, spare tire, apps. Went with Platinum gray over oyster. Thanks for the advise, now we can compare BMW to Benz in real time.
The numbers are accurate. Like I said they probably got me for some $ on my trade in, but I still felt I got a good deal. It's white with beige interior. It's the color combo I was looking for. I've had the car for 2 weeks and love it.
Thanks for the information!
The numbers for an otherwise identical 30-month lease are .00135 and 65%.
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I've never leased in the past, but may consider it if I decide to go for the Tesla Model S that we have now been notified is ready for us to "build" after having had one on deposit for 8 months. As such a couple of questions to make sure I'm not missing something in the math on the terms you have quoted to mralbury above.
For simplicity, using a $70,000 "net" selling price, nothing down and no taxes, I come up with:
$1,012.71 payment on 24 months / 20,000 miles. Or $24,305 over 2 years.
$894.63 payment on 30 months / 25,000 miles. Or $26,839 over 2.5 years.
It looks like you are getting whacked for 1.33% depreciation per month for the first 24 months; only 0.5% per month for the next 6 months (68%/65% residuals) correct?
Another way of looking at it, the last 6 months only cost $2,535 or the equivalent $422.50 per month when you go from the 24 to 30 month term, correct?
Begs the question as to why anyone would do a 24 vs. 30 month lease? I'd love to have the ability to buy a second lightly used X5d just like the one we bought for $54,800 new, for $37,265, this time in 2014. But I guess that's what makes the leasing companies profitable.
Is my math correct? Do leases generally give the lessor the right to buy the vehicle at the residual price (or assign that right)?
Thanks.
I was wondering if I could get some feedback from people on some numbers I got for my lease from BMW of Boston.
2013 BMW X5 xDrive50i: MSRP $75,170 (cold weather, luxury seating, premium, premium sound, sport activity, and technology packages, and BMW apps). Final price $72,000. 30 months/10,000 miles per year. $3,000 down, 0.00155 mf, and 65% residual. Lease price of $899/month including taxes (6.25%).
I'd appreciate any comments.
Thanks!
as for power way more then enough.
diesel in CA avg about the same give or take 10 cents.
avoid the 20 ..rims way to easy to ding and if you go with those OEM tires.
they are $600 a pop.
I guess I'm glad that either I'm hard of hearing or simply don't find the sound of the diesel an issue. It's certainly no worse than any Mercedes or the q7. Maybe it was from my previously owning a 911 with the $2,500 optional sport exhaust? Our MDX sounds more strained under harder acceleration, especially given its need to downshift more than the x5.
We opted to stick with 19" rims on the sport activity package. Tire Rack sells the 20" tires for not much more than the 19's but the 20's wear out 30% faster.
I am looking at leasing a 2012 BMW X5 diesel. MSRP is $66,195. The lease would be structured as a 36-month lease with 15,000 year (0.00145 MF; 54% residual).
The car that I am looking at is a demo with 3,000 miles. The car was previously damaged by hail while sitting on the dealer's lot. While the car has been repaired, it nevertheless has a dirty carfax history report.
Using Truecar and simply calling dealers in the area, I am able to get $9,000 off MSRP without much negotiation. In some markets (i.e., New York, I am seeing people get $10,500 off the price of this vehicle).
Given the demo and the dirty carfax report (hail), what should my target purchase price be? Currently, the dealer is willing to take only $10,500 off.
How much flexibility does the dealer have in light of the hail damage? My guess is that they repaired onsite for significantly less than what they would have received from any insurance proceeds. But maybe I am wrong.
Thanks in advance,
The vehicle you are considering would appear to have an invoice price of roughly $60,900; meaning about a $5,300 markup on the MSRP. There is a $4,500 eco-credit from BMW on top of that and you didn't indicate whether or not you qualify for any other credits or rebates (loyalty, drive events , USAA, etc). Let's assume you don't. I could order a brand new version of that vehicle tomorrow for $8,800 off MSRP ($1,000 over invoice). My exact color choices, option choices, etc.
In my opinion, even if the vehicle had no hail damage and was in pristine condition, a demo with 3,000 miles would need to be discounted by at least another $2,500 or more (that's only 5%) for me to consider it over a brand new vehicle. With the hail damage, I'm not sure I would take it at any price but if I did, I'd be looking for another $2,000+ off. You might not care as much if you are leasing, but I don't want to take a damaged vehicle if I'm buying.
So, by my thinking, you would need to be at $13,000 discount, PLUS any other discounts or credits you qualify for, before I'd say "go for it". The deal you have been quoted, $10,500 off, is not compelling enough, in my opinion.
Your comments helped to confirm what I had been thinking. I am at discount of at least $13,000 for this vehicle (in light of the hail). I'll keep you posted.
Just want to make clear that my suggested discount would be at least $13k, PLUS any other discounts or credits you qualify for. We got the $1,000 Olympic drive event credit from the summer; others are getting $750 loyalty discounts, BMW Apps drive credit (?), USAA insurance credits.
Also didn't ask if that vehicle is exactly what you want, color wise an option wise. When we were shopping, several dealers offered discounts that were a little better if we took what they had on their lots. But and extra $500 off is not worth it, IMO, if you are going to get stuck with a color combo you don't like, or extra options that you don't really care about. For example, almost all X5's here have the cold weather package at $750, which only adds heated REAR seats (heated front seats are standard), steering wheel, etc. By ordering our car to exact specs, we left that box unchecked. Just not worth it to us.
Sounds like you might be from southern California, in which case picking up a custom ordered vehicle at the Performance Delivery Center may not be practical. But it's the only way I will ever buy another new BMW of any flavor.
Consumers always have the ability to purchase their leased vehicle at the end of their terms for their vehicles' residual value. Some banks have been known to even negotiate this price lower from time to time, though it seems as though this happens less frequently today than it did in the past. One bank, Ally, charges consumers a massive, annoying fee to purchase their vehicles, but most do not.
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Also, if you're eligible for it, make sure to take advantage of the $750 owner loyalty cash that is currently available on this model.
Lastly, the money factor that you were quoted is slightly high. BMW Financial Services' current buy rate for this model is only .00135 for consumers who qualify for its top credit tiers. Make sure that the dealer uses this rate to calculate your truck's payment.
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Can you please provide the 2013 X5diesel November MF and residual for a 36 month lease for both 10k miles and 12k miles/yr lease. Thanks!
I would like to know what the MF and residual are for the following:
2012 BMW X5 xDrive35d (36/10,000)
2013 BMW X5 xDrive35d (36/10,000)
Also, what's a decent discount on this vehicle? I know BMW is offering $4500 Eco credit and $1500 holiday credit. Correct me if I'm wrong but the dealer gets reimbursed for these credits, right? So it's not like they're discounting the car.
Thanks in advance for all your help.
When I go to BMW USA "Build your own" site, the X5i's are all 2013 model years, but the X5d still shows as a 2012.
To answer your question about discounts and credits, YES those are after the best discount you can negotiate with the dealer. We were at roughly $1,000 over invoice for a custom ordered vehicle, meaning that after the $4,500 eco credit and $1,000 Olympic drive for USA coupon, we netted out to roughly $4,500 UNDER invoice.
Good luck and please advise if you have any factual information about a 2013 MY X5d that I am not aware of?
What the MF and residual for 2012 X5d for the following. Thank you for your help.
36 months, 12k miles
36 months, 15k mikes
This is my 1st post. I have an offer from 1 of the dealers and would appreciate if you can inform me if this sounds like a good deal.. I know I can further negotiate and get it at invoice as they offered me X3 at invoice. My concern is the monthly payments and residual value.
X5 35i premium with convenience pkg, cold weather, bmw apps
MF= 0.00135
Res= 56%
Invoice= $56725
Selling price= $57725
Holiday cash rebate= $1500
$2000 drive off with $811/month (w/ taxes) for 36 months.
thanks you,
X
The residual value for a lease with 10,000 miles per year would be 1% higher.
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I am now looking for a '12 X5d in order to take advantage of BMW's current pull-ahead program and the larger Eco-credit ($4500 vs $3000). In this regard, can you pls provide Nov BMWFS residual and buy rate MF for 24 and 36 month, 10k miles/year lease on the '12 X5d?
For the others reading this, if I am not mistaken, other current incentives include holiday cash, loyalty cash, and BMW ultimate drive app credit. Amounts vary by model and your BMWFS status.
BMW Financial Services' November buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 24-month lease of a 2012 X5d with 10,000 miles per year are...hmmm I'm not sure that BMW is providing lease support on the '12 X5 any longer. If it is, its program for it is probably .00135 and 60% for 24 months and .00135 and 54% for 36 months.
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What do you think?
AT
The last time I saw them, BMW Financial Services' buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 24-month lease of a 2012 X5 35D with 12,000 miles per year were .00145 and 59% for consumers who qualify for its top credit tier. The money factor may be slightly different right now. The residual value for a lease with only 10,000 miles per year would be 1% higher.
There is a total of around $6,000 in cash incentives plus $750 loyalty cash on this truck in November.
Car_man
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Finally how much off MSRP would be considered a good deal for this car? I tried to lease a new MB ML350 with no success because of its popularity (could only get $4500 off MSRP including the $1500 MB Winter rebate) and wonder if I should expect the same experience here or hopefully a better one
The 2 dealers near me tend to not be competitive, but there was inventory sitting on their lot compared to 2 years ago. This vehicle has great handling. The MB ML 350 is right up there with this vehicle. VERY disappointed with the infiniti JX as it was underpowered. Could be CVT transmission. Inside of JX was excertional.
In my opinion, the bigger issue is whether you need/want a vehicle now and can live with the current X5 at a price that is somewhat to well below invoice, or you have the ability/patience to wait for the new generation to arrive (at least several months away) and are OK with paying a few thousand more. But it doesn't appear to me that BMW has flooded the market with 2nd generation X5's such that dramatically greater incentives than those already offered are highly likely. Obviously, I may be wrong on that, but it seems that my dealer, at least, is willing to offer good deals on ordered vehicles so they don't get stuck with unsold ones on their lot. Their current inventory of X5's is much less today than it was in July.
That deal you think you're getting can be had at any time. That's the standard deal on an X5 if you know how to negotiate. You would know that if you had done your homework and read the buying advice in this forum. It doesn't change the fact that this X5 is old and will be obsolete in a year and you are not being compensated for buying at the tail end of a 7 year production run.
I didn't "attack" you in my previous post, I simply questioned whether there are going to be significantly greater incentives in the near future on current model X5's than there are today. As the plant manager pointed out, BMW has vastly improved its inventory controls and "just in time" manufacturing process to reduce the likelihood of excessive unsold vehicles. As for a current X5 being "obsolete" in a year, I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. I could have bought an Acura MDX Advance if I wanted every techno gadget known to man. I bought the X5 because of the driving dynamics and engineering. The new X5 will be evolutionary, not revolutionary. It won't change the basic fact that Acura still kills BMW in do-dads and BMW still kills just about everybody but Porsche in driving dynamics. I bought the BMW with the intention of keeping it 8-10+ years, without too much concern that a better i-drive or some sheet metal changes are going to make me feel like I need to trade it in next year. That strategy has worked pretty well for me in the past, and is at least a small part of the reason I can consider a 991 911 instead of an obsolete 997. Although the soon to be obsolete V8 M3 still has some appeal to me - assuming I'm fairly compensated, of course.
It's fine that you are a bmw fan and wish to offer your opinions and advise. But perhaps you should be less of a fanny, if you get my drift.
Other than BMW, every other manufacturer - Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, VW - prices their diesels above the comparably equipped gas model by $1,500 to $3,000+. The X5d with its current $4,500 eco credit (which was only $2,500 when my son bought his 2010) puts it at least $1,500 under the comparably equipped X5 3.5i. I'm not sure why BMW has felt compelled to offer this significant of a discount on its diesel model. But if thats a vehicle that appeals to you and you can combine that with some of their other special offers and get a dealer to knock down their price to close to invoice, I'd have no trouble recommending going for it. I'm betting that a 2014 diesel will either have a much smaller eco-credit or none at all.
Pigs get fat. Hogs get slaughtered.
Both are great, but I am drawn to Porsche's engineering and styling. I have a 911 and the interior of the new Cayenne is familiar and attractive. I have adaptive sport seats in both vehicles that are extraordinarily comfortable for long drives and well bolstered for more enthusiastic driving. I also think Porsche did a great job with the exterior in the Cayenne redesign. Don't need the moderately extra space of the X5, as most of my driving is alone or with 1-3 passengers (and golf clubs). I need an SUV for Pittsburgh winters, but not for carting half of a soccer team around. Been there, done that when our kids were younger.
The X5 seems a little quicker, the Cayenne handles and a little better; either one is far superior in driving dynamics to most other SUV's.
My MSRP worked out to about $75k, got a $4,000 courtesy discount, for being a multiple time previous customer. That's about $15-18k more than a comparably equipped X5d. Which, if you are on a more limited budget, is a hell of a great deal. Even though I am a Porsche guy, I would take the X5d over our sister offerings, the Q7 and VW TDI.
New to this site. I am ready to pull the trigger on a 2012 X5 diesel, MSRP of $67,800. With all the incentives the dealer has offered me $1770 down and $841/month (including Massachusetts taxes) for 36 months @ 12k miles/year.
I've shopped around and this is the best deal I have found. What say you?
Thanks in advance for your replies.
Sincerely,
Mr. Magoo