Any word on July money rates and residuals? I'm about to do a deal on X5d and am wondering if it makes any difference to wait till those rates come out. I imagine I could get my salesman to commit to the better of the two (June vs. July). Just thought I'd ask.

Won't know until July --- no previews even for dealers. Can't pick between the two -- they are mutually exclusive. On July 1st the June rates are gone.

Can you tell me what dealership you went to? I just came back from a dealer in Jersey and he quoted me for a 2011 x5 35 Premium with Comfort Access, Convenience, Tech Package, and Cold Weather whose MSRP is about 59000, to pay 700 a month with 9700 due at signing. I'm thinking this is a horrible deal so please let me know the dealership you worked with.

Anyone who is familiar with BMW Financial Services knows that since the beginning of time it has used a pass / fail system for its lease approval process. Either consumers qualified for its best available rates or they could not lease through BMW FS at all...and your credit had to be pretty messed up for the latter to happen.

Yesterday BMW announced that BMW FS is introducing a tiered system for its lease program. Its rates now vary by credit tier, with the people who have the best credit scores getting slightly better rates than what was available last month and much higher money factors for people with low credit scores.

I should be able to get the full details of this new program some time today. Please feel free to post your questions about it here and I'll gladly fill you in on what I am able to find out.

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Picking up new X5 in couple of days. We had been thinking about financing and "locked in" the June rates (2.9% for up to 60 months). With this tier news, we would want to check into the new lease rates also. I assume we can get out of this "lock in," right? (in fact, I assume, in case the July finance rates are better than June, we can take advantage of those too, right?

Car_man, thanks so much for posting this. I negotiated a deal for X5d using June rates with a pledge from the salesman to "adjust" for any beneficial change in July rates. I mentioned the new tiered system in an email yesterday and he said that my monthly payment will go down about $20. I would love to know the rates by tier so I can keep him honest.

You're very welcome, suznsax. BMW FS' new July buy rate lease money factor for the 2011 X5d is .00210 for consumers who qualify for its top credit tiers.

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BMW Financial Services' July buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2011 X5d with 15,000 miles per year are .00210 and 56%, respectively.

The residual value for a lease with only 12,000 miles per year is 2% higher. The 10k resid is 3% higher.

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I certainly do, zhecks. Here you go. BMW Financial Services' July buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2011 X5 35i Premium with 12,000 miles per year are .00210 and 62%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its top credit tier.

The residual value for a lease with only 10,000 mies per year is 1% higher.

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Here you go, 140_6. BMW Financial Services' July buy rate lease money factor and residual value or a 24 month lease of a 2011 X5d with 15,000 miles per year are .00210 and 64%, respectively.

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I am trying to calculate the Money Factor from the published BMW Lease rates and the numbers do not match. Can you tell me what I am doing wrong here ?

I am using one of your old post here to calculate the Monthly payment

I entered the following values (exactly) in the calculator as per BMW website offer as given below:

Vehicle Sales Price: 52,100 Cash Down Payment: 4,000 Lease Residual Value: 32,823 Lease Term (months): 36 Miles Driven per Year: 10,000 Acquisition Fee (estimated): 725 Money Factor: 0.0021 My Monthly Payment (tax included): $615.96

Note: I calculated the payment without tax for exact comparison with advertised price.

My local dealer told me that in order to decrease the payment by $30, you have to reduce the MSRP by $1000. I am currently finding an offset of $615.96 (Edmunds Calculator) - $539(bmwusa.com Offer) = 76.96

This tells me that there was a discount of about $2500 possibly added by BMW.

Is that true or I am missing something here ?

Thanks for your suggestions and help in calculations.

Although I'm obviously not car_man, please allow me to contribute my 2 cents for whatever it's worth. Unfortunately, there is no way to determine the money factor given the information in the promo ad that you referenced. The reason is twofold...

(1) the money factor isn't disclosed which is not unusual and, (2) the net (adjusted) capitalized cost is not dislosed

This presents a problem because you have one equation with two unknowns...

P = F x (C + R) + (C - R) / N

P = payment F = money factor C = net (adjusted) cap cost R = residual value N = term

Given your data, you're trying to force the $539 payment to "fit" your $48,100 cap cost which, apparently, is not the cap cost used in the ad assuming that your 0.00200 money factor is correct.

Given the info you provided, your base payment is...

P = 0.00200 x (48,100 + 32,823) + (48,100 - 32,823) / 36 = 586.21

Solving the above formula for F, we get...

F = [P - (C - R)/N]/(C + R)

Now, we can test the likelihood that the promo ad uses an adjusted cap is 48,100 by finding the money factor. Substituting the variables with their assigned values, we get...

Because the digits beyond the 5th to the right of the decimal point are non-zero, it's highly unlikely that 48,100 is the net cap used in the promo ad. Furthermore, you used the MSRP of 52,100 as the sell price. Usually, promo ads discount the MSRP. And so, it's extremely unlikely that a promo ad used the MSRP as the sell price for competitive reasons.

Now, let's examine the money factor. IF the money factor is, indeed, 0.00200, then we can solve for the net cap, used in the ad, using the following formula...

And, because the ad assumes a down payment (i.e., cap reduction) of 4,000, the gross cap is 50,514.69. Moreover, the ad assumes that the 1st payment, sec deposit, and acq fee are paid at lease signing. This suggests that there are no items being capitalized (i.e., financed) in the lease. And so, the sell price equates to the gross cap of 50,514.69 reflecting a discount of 1,585.31 off the 52,100 MSRP. Again, we're assuming that the 0.00200 money factor is the one used in the ad to compute the 539 payment.

It seems that you're doing a lot of guessing. Let me share with you, for whatever it's worth, what I do when leasing...

1st. I do research regarding residual factors, money factor (I always use the buy rate), learn applicable incentives, examine promo ads, and establish a competitive selling price using edmunds, KBB (Kelly Blue Book), and overstock at zag.com.

2nd. I create a one-page lease proposal with all pertinent data including a description of the vehicle, MSRP, sell price, amounts capitalized (e.g., taxes, acq. fee, etc), cap reductions (e.g., trade, cash down, etc), money factor, residual factor, residual value, term, taxable payment, lease payment, amounts due up front (itemized), contract provisions (gap insurance, excess mileage charge, applicable disposition/purchase option fees). All dollar amounts are calculate, not by the dealer, but by me using a program that I created.

3rd. I Fax/email the proposal to the dealer and negotiate via phone/email from the comfort of my home/office with my laptop excel spreadsheet (actually Mathematica) lease program fired up and ready to rumble! The only thing I'm likely to negotiate is the sell price and that only requires a few keystrokes on my laptop. And, bing-bang- boom I'm done!

The key is that you must control the deal. Never allow a dealer to control the deal by allowing them to "run the numbers". Trying to figure out the dealer's numbers is often a pointless exercise and, frankly, a waste of time unless, of course, you have a copy of their LEASE WORKSHEET. This is a computer generated document that eliminates confusion and guess work and will tell you everything you need to know and then some. The beauty of this document is that it always tells the truth. Allowing the dealer to control will only end up costing you more money in most instances.

A one-page lease proposal speaks volumes about you... it sends the message that you know and understand leasing. That quickly serves notice to the dealer, and so; they're not as inclined to play games. This suggests that the biggest advantage of a lease proposal is that it saves time, money, and aggravation.

However, if you agree to allow the dealer to "run the numbers", ALWAYS ask them for their LEASE WORKSHEET. If they refuse to give you a copy, RUN; DON'T WALK!

You stated the following...

"My local dealer told me that in order to decrease the payment by $30, you have to reduce the MSRP by $1000."

Nothing couldn't be further from the truth unless the MSRP is the sell price. This vehicle does not command an MSRP selling price in this market. The selling price is determined independently of the MSRP and is dependent primarily on local demand/supply in your area. The only thing the MSRP impacts is the residual value. Lowering the MSRP, lowers the residual value which, in turn, increases the payment.

Residual Value = Residual Factor x MSRP. In your posted BMW lease promo ad, the residual factor is 63%.

Thank John so so much for all your helpful insights. I am in process of creating this spreadsheet as per your suggestion.

I went to two dealership in my areas so far and they scared me with the deals they quoted.

One dealer told me that he is ready to give the 2011 X5 35i Premium with the few options (Technology, Convenience, 3rd Row, Cold Weather) at Invoice price if I complete the deal at the same instant.

Another dealer told me that he would give me the vehicle at $300 over invoice.

Now, I didn't had all the calculations and spreadsheet in front of me to even argue or quote my number or negotiate. It was very evident that I wasn't prepared at that time but I do want to do a good homework this time before I approach them again.

I want to start the negotiation with my numbers and quote rather than the dealer prices.

I will share my numbers shortly for your confirmation that I am on right track.

Is the Lease Residual Value calculated on original MSRP or Negotiated price ? For example, the vehicle MSRP with Options is $60625 and Invoice Price is $55765.

If I use the residual of 63%, then does it come to (60625 * 63/100) = 38194

The residual value is computed using the MSRP. More accurately, its calculation is based on the adjusted MSRP. Although this probably does not apply to you, the adjusted MSRP is formulated by adding the cost of dealer installed options or, deducting certain options. Dealer installed options are usually not fully residualized and, in some instances, not residualized at all. The reason is that fund providers know that dealers grossly inflate the value of installed options. Generally, though...

Residual Value = Residual Factor (%) x MSRP

John

PS: If you would like sample lease proposals, you can email me at diffeq@zoominternet.net

Vehicle Sales Price (with typical options; before Customer Cash Rebate): 60,625 This is the main one to negotiate IMO. ] Cash Down Payment: $4000

Lease Term (months): 36 Lease Residual Value: MSRP * Residual % = $60625 * 63% = $38193.75 <== [ I used the MSRP for residual value calculations. I think this is fixed for a month by BMW. ] Money Factor : 0.0020 <== [ Equivalent to APR of 4.8% by using the multiplication factor of 2400. This is negotiable but doesn't affect the payment so much even with 0.0021 ] Miles Driven per Year: 10,000 Acquisition Fee (estimated): $725 <== [ Used the figure from bmwusa.com Lease Offer ] Security Deposit: $650 <== [ Edmunds doesn't let me change it but bmwusa.com Lease Offer shows $550 ]

Total Loan Amount: $53,399.00 My Monthly Payment (tax included): $643.39

Please suggest if I am on right track and my numbers calculated makes sense.

Are you on the right track? That's tough to answer because you provided a payment of $643.39 (tax included) but you didn't tell me your state or tax rate. So, I have no idea whether you computed the base payment correctly. What does the $53,399 total loan amount mean? Is that the net (adjusted) cap cost? You may want to look at the first formula in post #1279. Everything else looks good except you may want to do more homework on the selling price... seems very high.

Today I have contacted a local BMW dealer for an initial quote for 36-month with 12,000 miles per year without any negotiation. A sales person told me that they could offer $780/month with $0 down lease, but I need to pay a upfront cost of $2,800. I assume that $2,800 include a first month lease payment. Is $2000 right amount to cover taxes and fee? Any suggestion?

I would like to get some advice on upfront drive off cost. Based on my conversation with a BMW dealer in NJ, they are telling me that I have to pay the following drive off costs:

Bank Fee: $925 (I see other people got the same fee info. Do I really have to pay for this? Doc Fee: $ $369 (I see other people got $75 fee. I am pretty sure my dealer is trying to scam me on this.) Lux Tax, License, and Registration: $533.49 (I am a NJ resident, and my sales person tells me that I need to pay a luxery tax on my lease. Is that true?)

Bank fee: Base fee is $725.. they are marking it up the maximum for extra profit. But, no requirement that you pay it upfront, you can always roll it into your lease payments.

Doc fee: Just more revenue for the dealer... They added $369 to your deal... they probably won't take it off, but you can threaten to walk, if they don't lower the price of the car by a comparable amount... Again, this fee wouldn't have to be paid upfront.... you could roll it in.

Lux tax, etc..: Not sure, but I think the luxury tax is a NJ thing... Added to cars that have an MSRP above a certain amount ($40K?, $50K?). Although it's possible to roll everything into the lease payment, most people pay registration fees upfront.

## Comments

2I am expecting an offer later today. What should I expect to pay for a lease (money factor) and what will the residual percentage be?

Thanks, Curtis

3,6029Thanks

3,6026Thanks!

38,515Yesterday BMW announced that BMW FS is introducing a tiered system for its lease program. Its rates now vary by credit tier, with the people who have the best credit scores getting slightly better rates than what was available last month and much higher money factors for people with low credit scores.

I should be able to get the full details of this new program some time today. Please feel free to post your questions about it here and I'll gladly fill you in on what I am able to find out.

Car_manHost

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19932Thanks.

38,515Car_manHost

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38,515BMW Financial Services' July buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2011 X5d with 15,000 miles per year are .00210 and 56%, respectively.

The residual value for a lease with only 12,000 miles per year is 2% higher. The 10k resid is 3% higher.

Car_manHost

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40Do you have the current lease rates (July). Looking for the 10k and 12k for 36 months for the X5 35i Premium?

Thanks.

2Any chance you could also provide the residual for a 24 month lease for 15,000 miles per year for a 2011 X5d?

Thanks.

38,515The residual value for a lease with only 10,000 mies per year is 1% higher.

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38,515Car_manHost

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10I am confused on the lease payment calculations.

I am using the advertised BMW leasing price and trying to reverse engineer it.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/FinancialServices/LeaseOfferDetail.aspx?e- nc=gxNfrckxtzfGpEIyRuxhfQ==

I am trying to calculate the Money Factor from the published BMW Lease rates and the numbers do not match.

Can you tell me what I am doing wrong here ?

I am using one of your old post here to calculate the Monthly payment

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef01891/0

Selling Price 52100

Down Payment 4000

Cap Cost 48100

Residual 32823

Depreciation = Cap Cost - Residual = 48100 - 32823 = 15277

Monthly Depreciation = 15277 / 36 = 424.3611

Interest Charges = Cap Cost + Residual = 48100 + 32823 = 80923 * Money Factor = 80923 * 0.0020 =

161.846However, the interest charge from the advertised price = Monthly Payment - Monthly Depreciation = 539 - 424.36 =

114.64Can you tell me what is wrong in my calculations ?

Thanks

10http://www.edmunds.com/calculators/auto_lease_calculator_index.html

I entered the following values (exactly) in the calculator as per BMW website offer as given below:

Vehicle Sales Price: 52,100

Cash Down Payment: 4,000

Lease Residual Value: 32,823

Lease Term (months): 36

Miles Driven per Year: 10,000

Acquisition Fee (estimated): 725

Money Factor: 0.0021 My Monthly Payment (tax included): $615.96

Note: I calculated the payment without tax for exact comparison with advertised price.

My local dealer told me that in order to decrease the payment by $30, you have to reduce the MSRP by $1000.

I am currently finding an offset of $615.96 (Edmunds Calculator) - $539(bmwusa.com Offer) = 76.96

This tells me that there was a discount of about $2500 possibly added by BMW.

Is that true or I am missing something here ?

Thanks for your suggestions and help in calculations.

606Although I'm obviously not car_man, please allow me to contribute my 2 cents for whatever it's worth. Unfortunately, there is no way to determine the money factor given the information in the promo ad that you referenced. The reason is twofold...

(1) the money factor isn't disclosed which is not unusual and,

(2) the net (adjusted) capitalized cost is not dislosed

This presents a problem because you have one equation with two unknowns...

P = F x (C + R) + (C - R) / N

P = payment

F = money factor

C = net (adjusted) cap cost

R = residual value

N = term

Given your data, you're trying to force the $539 payment to "fit" your $48,100 cap cost which, apparently, is not the cap cost used in the ad assuming that your 0.00200 money factor is correct.

Given the info you provided, your base payment is...

P = 0.00200 x (48,100 + 32,823) + (48,100 - 32,823) / 36

= 586.21

Solving the above formula for F, we get...

F = [P - (C - R)/N]/(C + R)

Now, we can test the likelihood that the promo ad uses an adjusted cap is 48,100 by finding the money factor. Substituting the variables with their assigned values, we get...

F = [539 - (48,100 - 32,823)/36] / (48,100 + 32,823)

= 0.00141664

Because the digits beyond the 5th to the right of the decimal point are non-zero, it's highly unlikely that 48,100 is the net cap used in the promo ad. Furthermore, you used the MSRP of 52,100 as the sell price. Usually, promo ads discount the MSRP. And so, it's extremely unlikely that a promo ad used the MSRP as the sell price for competitive reasons.

Now, let's examine the money factor. IF the money factor is, indeed, 0.00200, then we can solve for the net cap, used in the ad, using the following formula...

C = [PN +R(1 - FN)] / (1 + FN)

C = [539(36) + 32,823(1 - 0.00200(36)] / (1 + 0.00200(36))

= 46,514.69

And, because the ad assumes a down payment (i.e., cap reduction) of 4,000, the gross cap is 50,514.69. Moreover, the ad assumes that the 1st payment, sec deposit, and acq fee are paid at lease signing. This suggests that there are no items being capitalized (i.e., financed) in the lease. And so, the sell price equates to the gross cap of 50,514.69 reflecting a discount of 1,585.31 off the 52,100 MSRP. Again, we're assuming that the 0.00200 money factor is the one used in the ad to compute the 539 payment.

Hope this helps.

John

606It seems that you're doing a lot of guessing. Let me share with you, for whatever it's worth, what I do when leasing...

1st.I do research regarding residual factors, money factor (I always use the buy rate), learn applicable incentives, examine promo ads, and establish a competitive selling price using edmunds, KBB (Kelly Blue Book), and overstock at zag.com.2nd.I create a one-page lease proposal with all pertinent data including a description of the vehicle, MSRP, sell price, amounts capitalized (e.g., taxes, acq. fee, etc), cap reductions (e.g., trade, cash down, etc), money factor, residual factor, residual value, term, taxable payment, lease payment, amounts due up front (itemized), contract provisions (gap insurance, excess mileage charge, applicable disposition/purchase option fees). All dollar amounts are calculate, not by the dealer, but by me using a program that I created.3rd.I Fax/email the proposal to the dealer and negotiate via phone/email from the comfort of my home/office with my laptop excel spreadsheet (actually Mathematica) lease program fired up and ready to rumble! The only thing I'm likely to negotiate is the sell price and that only requires a few keystrokes on my laptop. And, bing-bang- boom I'm done!The key is that you must control the deal. Never allow a dealer to control the deal by allowing them to "run the numbers". Trying to figure out the dealer's numbers is often a pointless exercise and, frankly, a waste of time unless, of course, you have a copy of their LEASE WORKSHEET. This is a computer generated document that eliminates confusion and guess work and will tell you everything you need to know and then some. The beauty of this document is that it always tells the truth. Allowing the dealer to control will only end up costing you more money in most instances.

A one-page lease proposal speaks volumes about you... it sends the message that you know and understand leasing. That quickly serves notice to the dealer, and so; they're not as inclined to play games. This suggests that the biggest advantage of a lease proposal is that it saves time, money, and aggravation.

However, if you agree to allow the dealer to "run the numbers", ALWAYS ask them for their LEASE WORKSHEET. If they refuse to give you a copy, RUN; DON'T WALK!

You stated the following...

"My local dealer told me that in order to decrease the payment by $30, you have to reduce the MSRP by $1000."Nothing couldn't be further from the truth unless the MSRP is the sell price. This vehicle does not command an MSRP selling price in this market. The selling price is determined independently of the MSRP and is dependent primarily on local demand/supply in your area. The only thing the MSRP impacts is the residual value. Lowering the MSRP, lowers the residual value which, in turn,

increases the payment.Residual Value = Residual Factor x MSRP. In your posted BMW lease promo ad, the residual factor is 63%.

John

10I am in process of creating this spreadsheet as per your suggestion.

I went to two dealership in my areas so far and they scared me with the deals they quoted.

One dealer told me that he is ready to give the 2011 X5 35i Premium with the few options (Technology, Convenience, 3rd Row, Cold Weather) at Invoice price if I complete the deal at the same instant.

Another dealer told me that he would give me the vehicle at $300 over invoice.

Now, I didn't had all the calculations and spreadsheet in front of me to even argue or quote my number or negotiate. It was very evident that I wasn't prepared at that time but I do want to do a good homework this time before I approach them again.

I want to start the negotiation with my numbers and quote rather than the dealer prices.

I will share my numbers shortly for your confirmation that I am on right track.

Thanks again so much.

10For example, the vehicle MSRP with Options is $60625 and Invoice Price is $55765.

If I use the residual of 63%, then does it come to (60625 * 63/100) =

38194or

(55765 * 63/100) =

35132606Residual Value = Residual Factor (%) x MSRP

John

PS: If you would like sample lease proposals, you can email me at

diffeq@zoominternet.net

10http://www.edmunds.com/calculators/auto_lease_calculator_index.html

Here are my numbers for this calculator:

Vehicle Sales Price (with typical options; before Customer Cash Rebate): 60,625 This is the main one to negotiate IMO. ]

Cash Down Payment: $4000

Lease Term (months): 36

Lease Residual Value: MSRP * Residual % = $60625 * 63% = $38193.75 <== [ I used the MSRP for residual value calculations. I think this is fixed for a month by BMW. ]

Money Factor : 0.0020 <== [ Equivalent to APR of 4.8% by using the multiplication factor of 2400. This is negotiable but doesn't affect the payment so much even with 0.0021 ]

Miles Driven per Year: 10,000

Acquisition Fee (estimated): $725 <== [ Used the figure from bmwusa.com Lease Offer ]

Security Deposit: $650 <== [ Edmunds doesn't let me change it but bmwusa.com Lease Offer shows $550 ]

Total Loan Amount: $53,399.00

My Monthly Payment (tax included): $643.39

Please suggest if I am on right track and my numbers calculated makes sense.

40606Are you on the right track? That's tough to answer because you provided a payment of $643.39 (tax included) but you didn't tell me your state or tax rate. So, I have no idea whether you computed the base payment correctly. What does the $53,399 total loan amount mean? Is that the net (adjusted) cap cost? You may want to look at the first formula in post #1279. Everything else looks good except you may want to do more homework on the selling price... seems very high.

John

6* Convenience Pkg

* Technology Pkg

* Cold Weather Pkg

The MSRP of this car is $58,925.

Today I have contacted a local BMW dealer for an initial quote for 36-month with 12,000 miles per year without any negotiation. A sales person told me that they could offer $780/month with $0 down lease, but I need to pay a upfront cost of $2,800. I assume that $2,800 include a first month lease payment. Is $2000 right amount to cover taxes and fee? Any suggestion?

Please let me know.

4I got an offer from the local dealer.

Option:

1. Convenience pack

2. Cold weather pack

3. Running board

4. 3rd row seat

5. Park distance control

MSRP: 58875

Invoice: 54675

Cap: 55255 (580 over invoice)

36month/10000/year

MF: 0.0021

Residual: 63%

Tax:6%

License $ registration 165.00

bank fee 925.00

doc fee 75.00

First payment 740.38

Sec deposit 749.00

Total Drive off: 2714.38Monthly payement:

740.38include taxIs it a good deal or not?

Is it reasonable for bank fee?

Thank you.

6Bank Fee: $925 (I see other people got the same fee info. Do I really have to pay for this?

Doc Fee: $ $369 (I see other people got $75 fee. I am pretty sure my dealer is trying to scam me on this.)

Lux Tax, License, and Registration: $533.49 (I am a NJ resident, and my sales person tells me that I need to pay a luxery tax on my lease. Is that true?)

Please let me know what you think.

57,469Doc fee: Just more revenue for the dealer... They added $369 to your deal... they probably won't take it off, but you can threaten to walk, if they don't lower the price of the car by a comparable amount... Again, this fee wouldn't have to be paid upfront.... you could roll it in.

Lux tax, etc..: Not sure, but I think the luxury tax is a NJ thing... Added to cars that have an MSRP above a certain amount ($40K?, $50K?). Although it's possible to roll everything into the lease payment, most people pay registration fees upfront.

regards,

kyfdx

MODERATORPrices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

Need help picking out a make/model, finding inventory, or advice on pricing? Talk to an Edmunds Car Shopping Advisor7Is the 4500 incentive on the X5 only for Diesel or can it be used on all X5 models? I am interested in the X5 Premium.

Thanks!