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Honda S2000 Lease Questions

CarMan@Edmunds[email protected] Posts: 38,515
edited April 2014 in Honda
Hi everyone. Please use the following discussion to post any questions that you have about leasing a Honsa S2000. Thanks.

Car_man
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  • Dear Car_man:

    Thanks for the forum.

    I'm thinking about leasing a S2000, but am not sure about whether the current deal is a good one. It runs until the end of Oct 3rd.

    Closed-end lease for 2005 S2000
    MSRP $33,700.00 (includes destination).

    Actual net capitalized cost $29,376.41 Taxes, license, title, registration, documentation fees, options and insurance extra.

    Total monthly payments $10,764.00. Option to purchase at lease end $19,546.00. Lessee responsible for maintenance, excessive wear/tear and 15/mile over 12,000 miles/year.

    $299.00 per month for 36 months with a $2,499.00 capitalized cost reduction. $3,693.00 total due at lease signing (includes first month's payment, security deposit, acquisition fee and capitalized cost reduction; total net capitalized cost and base monthly payment does not include tax, license, registration, options and the like).

    I've gone thru the leasing guide and questions, but can't seem to understand the "Actual net capitalized cost". Is that the Lease price? Does it include the $2500 capitalized cost reduction? If so, do you think I can I negotiate the capitalized cost reduction to less?

    Thank you so much for your help in understanding this confusing issue.
  • You're very welcome etomidate. Honda is running a pretty attractive lease program on the 2005 S2000 this month. Its buy rate lease money factor for a 36 month lease of this car is currently only .00053. This is equivalent to an interest rate of around 1.3%. The thing that I do not like about the lease that Honda is advertising on the S2000 right now is the large down payment. Most manufacturers advertise leases with money down so that the monthly payments look more attractive, but consumers can and should lease any vehicle that they are interested in without making any sort of capitalized cost reduction. I advise consumers against making any sort of down payment when leasing for two main reasons. The first is if your vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen during your lease, your insurance company pays off the bank that you were leasing it through and your down payment essentially disappears. The second main reason is that down payments on leased vehicles do nothing to reduce their lease-end purchase prices. So your lease-end purchase option price for your S2000 would be exactly the same, regardless of whether you had put $2,500 down, or had made absolutely no down payment at all.

    The phrase "net capitalized cost" means the amount that you are financing on this lease. It is equal to your vehicle's selling price minus any sort od capitalized cost reduction that you make. This means that a net cap cost of $29,376.41 is really equivalent to a selling price of $31875.41, or a discount of $1824.59 off of this car's full MSRP. This deal looks like it is about $1,500 over invoice. If there is a decent level of competition in your area, I would not be surprised if you were able to negotiate a lower selling price than this. For additional feedback on S2000 pricing, make sure to stop by the following discussion: "Honda S2000: Prices Paid & Buying Experience".

    Car_man
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  • Thanks Car_man for the info.

    The selling price for the car at 31875.41 is way too high. With the new 2006's coming to market in late October...if not sooner, they really want to move the 2005's. I'm getting quoted at $29,250-29,500. I feel that that it is a great price, but probably won't wont get the above money factor. Also, if I don't want to put any money down for the cap reduction (as in $0), they may be less willing to do business.

    However, I'm sticking to my guns b/c this would be a total splurge buy. With my fico score at around 800, I'm pretty sure that I would get a good money factor...just not the .00053.

    We'll see. Thanks once again for your help.

    keep you posted on what the guys at the dealership are saying.
  • You're very welcome etomidate. Thanks for offering to let us know how everything turns out. Good luck in your negotiations.

    Car_man
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  • hi car_man,
    do you know if honda financial will allow zero down with their lease specials?
    for instance, the current s2000 requires about $3600 down...which equals to $100 a month for 36 months. will they allow $399 instead of $299 for 36 months?

    thank you.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 144,932
    Virtually all leases are available with no money down... Some may require the 1st payment and security deposit upfront, but acquisition fees and the cap cost reductions you see in advertised leases can almost always be rolled into the cap cost..

    Sometimes the payment is slightly higher than the rolled in amount divided by the term, as you are financing a higher amount... but, you have the general idea correct..

    regards,
    kyfdx
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  • do you think honda financial services will honor the low money factor rate since i'm not abiding by their lease "special" (since i want no down)?

    thank you.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 144,932
    It won't make any difference to Honda Finance... Your dealer may try to mark up the rate to achieve some extra profit, but that will be independent of the amount of your downpayment..

    The advertised downpayment, is just so they can show a low monthly payment..

    regards,
    kyfdx
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  • The dealers are not allowed to hike up the money factors on these S2000s since they are on special. Whatever you qualify for, whether it be Super Preferred, Preferred, Standard, or Select, they have to give you the corresponding money factor and aren't allowed to charge you more and pocket the difference. Normally they can hike the rate up and pocket the surplus, but not on this lease special. Just a little FYI
  • Well, I'm back to let you know of my dealings.

    After much research, etc....blah, blah, blah. I am finally pulling the trigger on the S2000.

    Just talked to Norm Reeves Honda (apparently #1 dealership in volume in the world - like that really is supposed to impress me). They say that I should be able to get the price of my S2000 to about $360/month + taxes. Essentially they are letting me off the hook with putting all that money up front ($2,499 cap cost reduction). Just rolling in it over into the 36 month lease.

    Do I think it is a great deal? Well sure, b/c the acquistion fee is rolled over the 36 months as well and no security deposit. Get a car without very much money down. I'll get in there and see what hidden fee they'll conjure up.

    the saga continues....

    This monday is when I'll set aside some time and head in there to talk things over. The best part is that I can completely walk away from the deal...Should I? over $20-30 a month when all the other conditions are good?
  • ajpbf7ajpbf7 Posts: 87
    Will Honda run it through the end of this month? If so any changes?
  • Hi oceanexprt. Yes, like most banks Honda Finance will allow consumers to lease vehicles without making any sort of capitalized cost reduction. In fact, it is in your best interest as a consumer not to put money down when leasing. Eliminating the down payment from Honda's advertised lease will make its monthly payment higher, but figuring out exactly how much higher is not quite a simple as dividing the advertised down payment by the number of months in the lease and adding the result to the monthly payment. If you let me know the full MSRP and selling price of the S2000 that you are interested in, I can calculate what its lease payment should be for you without any money down.

    Car_man
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  • Hi ajpbf7. Unfortunately, Honda did not renew its special lease program on the 2005 S2000 for the month of October. It replaced the special money factor that it was providing on this car with $750 dealer cash. That doesn't mean that you can't still lease one, just that the money factor will be higher. If you decide that you still want to lease an '05 S2000, make sure to take this dealer cash into account when negotiating your vehicle's capitalized cost.

    Car_man
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  • ajpbf7ajpbf7 Posts: 87
    Thanks carman. Could you provide me with the new money factor and residual please. I doubt it will be as attractive to lease copared to last month, but I would like to know the current rates. I appreciate it.
  • You're welcome ajpbf7. 's exact money factor and residual value will vary depending upon how long you want to lease it for and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive it. For now, I will provide you with its 36 month, 15,000 miles per year lease program. Let me know if you need information for a different term or mileage allowance. If you were to lease a 2005 Honda S2000 through Honda Finance right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its buy rate lease money factor and residual value should be .00255 and 56%, respectively.

    Car_man
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  • hi carman,
    if i base it on the purchase price of the car at dealer invoice,
    how much a month would that be with zero down meaning zero cap reduction? of course taxes, registration would be additional.
  • I'm not car_man, but punching his numbers into a spreadsheet give a payment of $444.96 plus tax assuming a MSRP of $33700 and a capitalized cost of $30370 (i.e. invoice). This is assuming you pay all fees yourself (acquisition fee, first payment, dealer fees, security deposit, etc).

    -Dave
  • wow..that's kind of steep. is that because honda doesn't have the special money factor rate anymore?

    thanks again.
  • Hi oceanexprt. If you were able to lease a 2005 Honda S2000 at dealer invoice, the dealer that you get it from would make the $750 dealer cash that is available on it right now on your deal. Let's estimate what this car's lease payment should be alike at this price. According to my calculations, if you were to lease an '05 Honda S2000 with an MSRP of $33,700 and a selling price of $30,370 (dealer invoice) through Honda Finance right now for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year, your zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around $428, assuming that you pay a security deposit, Honda Finance's $595 acquisition fee, and qualify for its top credit tier. This lease is a little higher than it would have cost to lease this car a couple of months ago because Honda is not providing lease support on this model any longer.

    Car_man
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  • We are a small business we are planning to buy or lease a car soon. Do you have the pros and cons of the two choices? Shirlgurl1
  • We are a small business we are planning to buy or lease a car soon. Do you have the pros and cons of the two choices? Are there any companies with more than 12000 miles with a lease? shirlgurl1
  • My dealer has an 05 S2K that he supposedly "really wants to sell." I drive a lot and the deal is 18,000 miles per on a 3 year lease with no money down for $500.00 per. He started at $536.00 and is using invoice on paper as the starting point. Is it a deal?
  • I leased an '03 for 4 years and the lease will be up in July of '07. I'm thinking of buying the car even though I've had an accident in it and even though I don't use it that much, 11k in 3 years. I just love the car and have never enjoyed driving one so much. I'm been trying to research how to best negotiate with American Honda and not get ripped off again. My residual is 19+. Any major pitfalls I should be on the lookout for when the time comes?
  • Hi shirlgurl1. There are tons of banks out there that lease vehicles with more than 12,000 miles per year. In fact, most banks base their residual values for leases on 15,000 miles per year. If you want to drive a Honda more than 15,000 miles per year, you will have to purchase additional miles on a per mile basis. It is less expensive to do so at lease signing than it is to wait until lease-end and have to pay an excess mileage penalty.

    I am not an accountant, so I hesitate to comment on the pros and cons of leasing for your specific business. You should consult your accountant to find out what the best way to finance your new vehicles is tax-wise.

    Car_man
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  • Hi godot1066. If you are getting this car for dealer invoice, you are getting a decent deal. The dealer isn't doing you any special favor though. They are still making the $750 dealer cash that Honda is providing on the '05 S2000 on a leftover convertible in the middle of winter. I would be happy to give you my opinion on the lease payment that you were quoted, however in order for me to do so I need you to tell me this car's full MSRP and exact selling price.

    Car_man
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  • 500 BUCKS A MONTH TO LEASE? :surprise:

    Just for comparison, I BOUGHT my S2k for 28k and my payments are almost the same... You should be able to pick an 05' leftover for about 29k and have your payments be around $500 - 550 per month (60 months) to BUY it.
  • richstarichsta Posts: 1
    Hi all, I'm gonna try my best to lease a 2006 s2000 this weekend, and I need your help with some lease figures. Is this quote the going rate these days? Or can i get better?

    Sale price: $500 below invoice (invoice is $31,183)
    Months: 36
    Mileage: 12k/yr
    Money factor: .00265
    Residual: 57%
    Down payment: $2,000
    Monthly Payment = $426 + tax

    I would preferrably like to pay $0 down and low $400's a month, but it doesn't seem like this is possible.
    Also, the $426 after computing these numbers doesn't seem right for some reason.

    Can you help me out? Btw im located in SoCal
  • jb2005jb2005 Posts: 4
    You are correct in thinking the $426 number is wrong. Plugging in the numbers given above yields a payment of $385. Dropping the 2K down payment brings it up to $445.
  • kurtosiskurtosis Posts: 3
    Hi all:

    So my younger brother goes out to lease a S2000 excited about their $299/month $3,693 total due at signing promotion. He was so excited that he signed the papers for $0 down, $445 a month (including NY tax and all that) right there after inquiring about no money down option. He calls me up and asks me to help him pick the car up tomorrow and told me about his "wonderful" deal. However, after reading this forum, it doesn't seem that way. So basically he signed the lease papers and is supposed to pick the car up tomorrow.

    My question is, is there any way to "return" the car since he didn't drive it off the lot yet? Someone told me there is a 24 hour or 3 day return law (i live in NY if state laws matter). I just want to be able to negotiate a better price for him.
  • Hi kurtosis. The 3 day return law that you mentioned is an urban legend. Once a consumer has physically taken delivery of their new vehicle they are basically stuck with it. Having said this, your brother may be able to get out of this deal if he has not driven his S2000 off the lot yet. The fact that he did not put any money down actually works to his advantage in this situation because the only thing that the dealer can do to try to force him to finalize this deal is threaten to keep his money. Of course, needless to say the dealer that he is working with is going to be less than pleased when they thought that they had a deal and all of a sudden a third person barges in trying to renegotiate it.

    Car_man
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  • tac379tac379 Posts: 6
    I just went to drive an S2000. 2006 Silverstone, all the options, $34,600 on the sticker. I got them down to $350 a month, $1300 total out of pocket on a 3 year lease, 12K/year. They said 57% residual and .000659 money factor and that they were doing an "invoice deal". After doing some calculations, I figure if it was based on invoice (according to edmunds) that I should be able to have it for $350/mo, $0 out of pocket.

    My question is, is that too good of a deal to walk away from? Or has anyone heard of these cars actually selling for below invoice, since they are in the last year of a 7 year model run.
  • Hi tac379. Honda Finance's current buy rate lease money factor for a 36 month lease of a 2006 S2000 is .00059 for consumers who qualify for its "Super Preferred" credit tier and pay a security deposit at lease signing. If you are able to lease a car with a capitalized cost that is equal to its dealer invoice and this money factor you are getting a very good deal.

    Car_man
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  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    $360 + tax or without?

    I pay less than that for my lease on the 05 and I put nothing into the lease except first month's payment, IIRC.

    I would not not pay so much into a cap cost reduction to lower the payment. Pay the negative equity and maybe the first month's payment and that is about all. In the event of a total loss on the car you insurance will pay off Honda and give you nothing (for your $2,860 out of pocket).

    I still would not do a 48 month lease, but that is just me.

    Dennis
  • gdr1gdr1 Posts: 6
    I am ready to lease an '07 S2000. The dealer has quoted a purchase price of $30,838 (Edmunds shows this as invoice) plus $595 Destination - total 31,433. His quote on a 36mo lease with 12k miles per year is 508 (plus tax). DMV is only payment at signing. Can you help me evaluate this offer?
  • Hi gdr1. Dealer invoice is an excellent price for a Honda S2000. I would be happy to use Honda Finance's current lease program to estimate what this car's monthly payment should be so you can compare what I come up with to the payment that you were quoted. However in order for me to do so I need you to provide me with this car's full MSRP. Let me know and I'll crunch some numbers for you.

    Car_man
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  • gdr1gdr1 Posts: 6
    thanks car man, in the meantime my wonderful wife decided that the S2000 was too claustrophobic with the top up and I have been instructed to lease a Boxter S. I will post there for your help.
  • ysg3ysg3 Posts: 1
    Car Man:

    I really would like an S2000 but will be the first to admit it is at the top end of my price range with the #'s that I am currently seeing... That being said i do not mind a lightly used car that would afford some better lease payments...Additionally, Swapalease has had some attractive #'s in the 380's that are in my price range, but anything in the high 4's with money down is way too high, and those are the #'s i am seeing right now... Swap a lease is difficult and i havent had much response on their wiht people who are posting their cars (seems very odd to me).

    Anyway, the purpose of this message is to see if it u think it is possible to negotiate low 400-low 4's on a lease, or if i could get an 04' or newer on a buy or a lease for 380-420... My research thus far has concluded that other than swapalease this is not really possible... Please let me know what ideas you have for someone in my position (if any).

    Thanks
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    The new S2000 lease deal is less 2% effective interest and you should be able to lease the car for invoice or a little less. If THOSE numbers are too high for you, then you either can't afford a new S or you would not be likely to be approved to lease one.

    You can lease a used car as long as it is within a few years of new. It will have to be inspected first ($100 or so fee) and may make the payments where you can live with them. You can find your own car, make your best deal, then do the lease via www.leasecompare.com . You can go there now to get lease quotes and see payments. Note that while the cap cost will be less with a used S, the money factor will be a lot more than the Honda promo rate - so your payment may not be that much lower.

    Also note that they usually list the base rental on the swap/trade lease sites and in most states you have to add sales tax to the payment. So a $350 a month lease may be $374.50 per month if you live in a 7% tax state.

    Dennis
  • No problem, gdr1. Man I wish that someone would instruct me to lease a Boxster ;) .

    Car_man
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  • Hi ysg3. I have never personally used swap-a-lease, but you're right it does seem odd that someone would go through the effort and expense to put their car or truck up there and then not even bother to respond to inquiries.

    I'm not sure what the lease payment on an S2000 would be like right now off of the top of my head. Let's crunch some numbers and find out. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2007 Honda S2000 that has an MSRP of $34,845 and a selling price of $31,933 ($500 over invoice) through Honda Finance right now for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year, your zero down, pre-tax monthly payment would be around $469. The payment for otherwise identical 39 and 48 month leases would be around $460 and $431. Unfortunately, once sales tax is added in, you are going to be well over $400 per month for all of these terms.

    Car_man
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  • What monthly payment should I expect with these numbers (lease)? I don't trust my math. :)

    Also, is destination charge included on a lease or just a purchase? the Selling Price includes the destination charge.

    MSRP: $34,845
    Selling Price: $30,500
    Money Factor: .0025 (6%)
    Residual Value: 52% (based on USAA, I'm finding 57% posted here)
    Down: $2000 cash + $1000 from trade-in
    Term: 36 Months
    Sales Tax: 6.25%
    Mileage: 12k/year
  • Hi accelerator. The money factor and residual value that you posted are different than Honda Finance's current program for this car. Its current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2007 Honda S2000 with 12,000 miles per year are .00280 and 58%, respectively. Using these numbers, an MSRP of $34,845, and a selling price of $30,500 I estimate that this car's zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around $428. I see that you are considering making a $3,000 down payment on this car. I always advise consumers against making down payments on leased vehicles. Those who do risk losing them if their vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen and never recovered. If you were to make a $3,000 capitalized cost reduction, it would drop the monthly payment for an otherwise identical lease to around $337.

    Car_man
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  • acceleratoraccelerator Posts: 136
    My math was good (www.leaseguide.com has a great lease calculator) as that is approx what I came up with, too. After rethinking about the down payment, I would have to say you make a very good point. I think I'll invest the $3000 instead. :)

    I have the lease quote worksheet in front of me but the sales persons hemed and hawed when I started asking questions about the numbers (numbers are below). I started feeling uneasy so I left. I have a spotless trade-in which I owe $18000 and they offered $16,500 (a full $2000 lower than a car in fair condition according to KBB and various other resources I checked).

    MSRP: $34,845
    Residual Adds (W): --
    Residual Value %: 55% <-- did they rob me here?</i>
    Residual Value ($): $19,167.75
    Capitalized Cost: $29,995
    Term: 36
    Lease Money Factor: .00288
    Customer Cash Down: $1943.00
    Rebates: --
    Total Trade (w): $16,500.00
    Total Add Caps (w): $774.30 <--- what is that and where did this come from?</i>
    Cash Cap Reduction: $1454.96 <--- what is this?</i>
    Adjusted Cap Cost: $31,483.03 <--- according to Honda, I had approx $1500 negative equity</i>
    Total Sales Tax: $168.69
    Base Monthly Rental: $488.04
    Security Deposit: $0
    Ttl Annual Fes (w): --
    ttl Initial Fees (w): --
    Amount Due at Start: $1943.00
    Ttl Working Cash: $1943.00
    One Pay Amount: --
    Total Monthly Payment: $488.04

    Was I smart to walk away or is this a fair deal, assuming trade-in value truly was fair?
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    Sounds like the dealer was not using Honda Finance for your lease. The residual should be 58% for a 36/36k lease from AHFC. The dealer can't change it, your credit rating can't change it, so it must not be a lease from AHFC.

    The rate they quote is also over the AHFC rate, but that could have been dealer mark-up (extra profit) OR due to your credit tier. Most likely is that this is not a AHFC lease.

    They are having you put down $1,943 - $488.04 of that is the first payment, the other $1,454.96 is the "cash cap reduction" - to reduce the lease amount/lower the payment. The "total add caps" is probably the lease acquisition fee (I think that is $595 for a AHFC lease), title, tags, "doc fee", etc.

    Since this does not appear to be an AHFC lease, then the amounts may vary.

    Looks like the dealer picked the lease deal that made THEM the most money and not made YOU the best payment.

    If you check over at http://www.leasecompare.com they will do the S for about the same residual and for 0.000258 MF (a tier credit). So if you wanted to use them, you just pick a car and make your deal, then they buy the car from the dealer and lease it to you. I have done that a couple of time with them with nice results.

    My S lease is at a MUCH lower, captive AHFC rate. Will they do that again? I would say the odds are yes. We are able to buy these cars for less than invoice price because Honda and the dealers can't sell them. So I took advantage of a really cheap MF on my 05 S lease a couple of years back so I could replace my 01 S with a brand new one "for cheap".

    If I were you, I would wait and see what AHFC does for lease specials in the next few months while you work on getting the negative equity out of your current car. Then if they run a special you can get a much, much lower payment and in any case will not have to pay anything down nor roll any negative equity into the new car.

    I would get the S somehow, I have sure loved mine :D

    Dennis
  • acceleratoraccelerator Posts: 136
    Thank you thank you thank you. The weather here in North TX is now hovering around 60-75, perfect for convertible weather and I was going to take the plunge. I was surprised that the dealer wasn't willing to work with me much as they have 9 new S's on the lot and 2 used... That seems to me that is a lot of inventory to carry for such a such a small market niche. Anyway, I didn't think of asking about WHO they were using to lease through, I just assumed it was Honda. Explains why they weren't answering my questions clearly.

    As for the S, I was estatic to find they were in production for one more year. I'm getting one this year! :)
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    I would check with other dealers, the S has become a REAL slow seller in recent years and most every dealer should have some on hand. But even if they do and gave you the Honda rate, it will still be a lot more than the "lease specials" they have had in the past (and more than the rate you can get at Leasecompare) - so you might wait another month or two to see if the lease specials come back on it. I would have to go check, but it seems the rate was just under either 1% or 2% at one time - which is really low.

    I would not mind trading my 05 for a new 07, since mine does not have stability control. If I could get a deal like I got last time, I would. I got the 05 S for under invoice, they gave me what I wanted for my 01 S, and I did the cheap lease deal. If they bring back the cheap lease deal, I will see if I can talk the dealer into giving me the buyout (or more) on the 05 and swap it for an 07 :D

    It was sunny and mid-70's 2 days this week and you know I was in the S, top down driving and lunch (for a LONG lunch) and all the way home. My wife and I went driving after work last night for several hours - we had to run the heat a bit after sundown but kept the top down. Sweet stuff. We both like the S (either of them) better than the C5 'vette convertible I had before - which is saying something.

    Dennis
  • acceleratoraccelerator Posts: 136
    Is the S your daily driver or a "weekend" car? The S would be my daily driver. I occassionally have to go to the grocery store and run small errands... and the little space is my ONLY hesitation. Today it is 84 (and you can feel every degree out there!) and I wonder if I already had the S, would I have had the top up or down. In my current vehicle, the windows were up and the A/C on :blush: but then again, this car isn't the S. :)

    If you think about it and you see the lease specials you spoke about, please post something here and I'll continue to monitor this thread... I just really don't want to miss out on a great car or deal.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    The S is the "nice weather car" - I normally only drive it when I can put the top down. Today and Tuesday they are calling for mid-70s and sun so I am in it - though it is too cold (for me) in the mornings to drive IN to work top down :D

    I looked in my Palm Pilot in my "Lease-It!" saved calculations and the lease special from 2 years ago was 0.00082 MF or 1.968%. Quite a bit lower than the current, non-special, offer.

    If you just check the special deals on the Honda cars web page they will have the S2000 special posted - if they have one. Currently, there is nothing.

    Dennis
  • acceleratoraccelerator Posts: 136
    I'll keep my eyes open, thanks again!
  • I have been checking out Honda's website every week waiting for their S lease special. I use to have an '05 S and traded it in last year for an Acura TL. Now I miss it so bad I am ready to get an '07. Their current lease specials (S not included) end 4/30/07. Does anyone know if the S will have a lease special in May or June? I thought I remembered they had one last year around May or June???
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