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Comments
2008 G35x with premium package, splash guards, and including dest charge of $715, MSRP should be $37,265. Invoice is $34,216. Making some assumptions about what kind of deal I can make, but assuming for moment that I can split difference between invoice and MSRP, and use 12,000 miles/36 months, 60% residual and money factor of .00245 seems as if monthly payments are still around $575 to $600. Nothing down of course, only paying acquisition fee, 1st payment and TTL at delivery. Previous Infiniti leaser, so no security deposit required. Any help appreciated. Can't believe prices are so much higher - paying $476 for current 2004 G35x lease (39 months/15,000). :confuse:
I don't have the x 39 month rates, but the residual would likely be 1 point higher and the rate may be the same or slightly higher and the net payment may be $10-20 less per month. In any case a lot higher than previous deals.
When is your current lease up? Either look for a left over 07 and get better rates, or go month to month until IFS comes across with better numbers.
Dennis
The dealer here in CT seem to be trying though, latest quote on an 07', $300 over invoice, an 08' $1500 over. None have he sport option on the sedan.
Car_man
Host
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
do you have the residuals and money factors for the 07 models, i'm particularly interested in the G35X and Sport models for 36m/15K a year. thanks!
2007 G35 Journey with Premium, Navigation, Perf Wheel/Tire pkg, splash guards, and cargo net.
MSRP $37,815
Cap Cost $34,572.26 + $695 dealer fee = total cap $35,267.26
money factor .00219
Residual 56% or $21,176.40
$135.95 Cap cost reduction.
$481.13 + tax per month
$1,485.30 Total due at signing includes: $135.95 Cap reduction, $595 bank fee, $510 first payment w/tax, $66.50 Gov fees, $47.85 Tax, $130 License plate.
Is this a 39 month lease or some other term? I have seen 0.00219 shown as the 39 month MF for the left over cars so that MAY be the buy rate.
To be a blowout deal they would need to:
1) Discount the car so that the after adding the dealer fee the total is at or close to invoice.
2) Give you the buy rate on the lease - ask them if 0.00219 is the buy rate or have they marked it up
The deal is "decent" as they offered it to you, but paying $750 over invoice for a left over 07 in mid-October seems like too much to me.
Dennis
G35X w/ premium and nav (+ cargo net and splash guards) 39 month/10K (I didn't come close to 10K/year on previous lease)
MSRP $39265 (according to edmunds and KBB)
Invoice $35879 (same)
Cap cost $38134 ($36382 + $1700 in NY taxes rolled in)
Residual is #22381, which I calculate as 58% of total cap
Money factor is .00198
Monthly payment is $524 with first month, #595 bank fee, tags and $50 doc prep fee up front.
The dealer is also taking me out of my existing lease one month early, so saving $270 payment. The way I figure, with that savings I am $233 over invoice.
He tried to tell me that sales tax is an upfront cost on the ENTIRE cost on the vehicle. Is this true or am I correct in thinking that when leasing you are not taxed on the selling price of the vehicle because you are not buying the vehicle.
2007 G35 sport sedan auto
prem/nav/tech/trunk net
MSRP: $39,890
Invoice (as listed by edmunds): $37,160
Starting Price as offered by dealer: $36,999
15,000mi/yr
39 months
$567/mon with $1359 inceptions
How does this sound. And can I expect to drive the car off the lot for $1359 or will there be other "hidden" fees. I'm just going on what the dealer sent to me.
By the way, thanks Carman and others for your responses!
The only real gotcha is the "taking me out of my existing lease early". Is this also an IFS lease or some other car? In effect what they are doing is buying your car from you (the lease bank actually) for the current buyout - which is the residual stated in your contract plus the principle of any unpaid payments and some more interest. I would get all of this in writing that you will owe nothing at lease end for extra miles, wear and tear, and will NOT have to pay the next payment. I have heard many sad tales of those that were told "we will take care of that" and then get a bill from the lease bank for the payment(s) and/or miles and/or wear and tear items.
Dennis
In most states, sales tax is levied on the payment each month. In other states (e.g. NY) tax is levied on the sum of the payments and must be paid up front or rolled into the lease. Some states may tax the depreciation only - the difference between the selling price and the residual. In other states (e.g. Texas) sales tax is due on the entire "sell price" on the car.
One of the advantages of lease is not having to pay sales tax on the whole car. If you live in a state that charges full tax then you just end up paying more than others. Leasing can STILL be a better deal depending on the lease MF and residual.
Normally taxes are charges based on your state of residence. Do you live in the District or another state? Which one?
Some dealers boost the lease money factor for extra profit, some will try to boost the bank fee, but they can't change the residual and better not try to collect taxes and not pay them. The your dealer is either correct or perhaps confused.
Dennis
In this case, the dealer is correct.
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
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As kyfdx said, that is the law in the state of Maryland. So just like Texas, you have to pay sales tax on the whole cap cost (purchase price) of the car on a lease. The bad news is that it will cost you 5% of the residual amount more than it would if you lived elsewhere. So if you leased a $40k G with a 56% residual you would be paying $1,120 more tax than someone living in another state with the same tax rate.
So the dealer is correct. This would be something you should talk to your state representatives about fixing.
Dennis
Dennis
2007 G35x with Nav & Premium $36140 to buy
Lease terms: 12k miles/yr, $3550 total due at signing and then $450/month (including New Jersey tax) for 39 months
Since it is my first getting a luxury car and doing a lease, is this a good deal? :confuse: Many thanks to your opinion in advance.
As to the lease deal, NJ charges state tax (6%, I think) on the total of the monthly payments and has to be paid up front - either out of pocket of rolled into the lease. Find out from the dealer what the residual is on the lease and what money factor they are using for the lease. Also state the exact MSRP of the car you picked out. Then we can examine the numbers and see how the payment works out. To me, $450 a month is $3,500 due at signing sounds too high.
Dennis
Thanks so much for your help. Yes, the actual total due at signing is 4000 which will include first one month of lease. So, I will pay 450/month for 38 months.
Just called the dealer to confirm a few things you pointed out. The car does have both splash guards and cargo net. The residual is $21984, and money factor is 0.00199. Exact MSRP is $39265.
what do you think is a more reasonable lease term? If you need information, please let me know and I will call the dealer again. Thanks so much.
The residual you stated is not an even percentage of the MSRP, so I am guessing it should be $21,988.40 which is an even 56%.
If the take your $3,550 due at signing ($4k less the $450 payment) we have a net cap cost of $33,185 ($36,140 + $595 - $3,550). If I plug this number and the even 56% residual and the MF into a lease calc I get $396.89 per month for 39 months. I think NJ tax is 6% on the total of the payments, so 39 x $396.39 x .06 = $928.73 tax due. If I add this back into the lease I get $422.55 per month for 39 months.
To get the dealer's $450 per month I have to add in another $1,000 to the lease cap cost. I don't know what other fees or taxes or tags or title stuff they add in NJ, but it comes out to about $1,000 in my math. My guess is that some of these are legit fees and some are extra profit items for the dealer - like a high dealer "doc" fee, etc.
Ask them what the net cap cost on the lease is and a break down of all the fees since $1k is "missing" from what you have posted. I guess if the $1k is legit then the deal is OK, but I would guess that most of that missing money is extra profit for the dealer.
Dennis
Thanks for the in depth analysis of this deal. I called the dealer again to ask for the details in fees. So, here what I got,
Cap cost: $36079
$4K due at signing includes:
1. $450 first month payment
2. $59 tax on doc and bank fee
3. $449 doc fee
4. $595 bank fee
5. $342.30 motor vehicle fee
6. $7.50 tire tax
7. $1999 down payment
8. the dealer added $120 to make a deal with me so that the month payment can come down about $10/month.
According to him, the New Jersey tax has changed to 7% from 6% about 18 months ago.
Could you please confirm whether this deal is ok? if so, is this leasing term still too high for the left over 07s and what would it be a more reasonable leasing price in your opinion? Thanks so much again!
I live in northern New Jersey and was quoted the following for a lease on a 2008 G35x (Premium package, Navigation, Technology Package, Splash Guards, Cargo Mat, and Wood Trim) 39 months/15,000 miles per year.
MSRP: 41,025.00
Invoice: 37,319
Cap Cost: 39,890.13 (37,805.00 + NJ taxes rolled in of 1,490.13 + 595.00 acquisition fee)
Bank Residual: 56%
Money Factor: 0.002370
Monthly Payment: 582.73 $0 down (except 1166.73 for license, title , first monthly payment, etc.)
Please let me know if this is a good deal or if I should negotiate for a better one? Thanks.
I assume the "motor vehicle fee" is a legit NJ expense as is the tire fee?
The $449 doc fee is pure profit for the dealer.
With the tax at 7% the numbers line up.
Your price is $261 over invoice plus the (silly high) $449 doc fee, then the dealer is taking off $120 to get the payment down to $450 a month with tax.
$141 over invoice (the net of your price and the $120 extra) would be a good price if they they didn't stick that high doc fee onto the deal. If you could talk them out of the doc fee (unlikely) or have them discount the car that much (may be possible) or find a dealer who does not charge a doc fee and has an 07 you like (could be) then you would save over $12 a month on your payment.
The 08 model lease numbers are worse - a higher residual but a higher money factor as well. The third party lease bank numbers for the 07 cars is not as good as the IFS rate the dealer is giving you. There is no known dealer money on left over sedans. So, if you want this car then the only way to get a better lease would be to get the dealer to discount the car more, not charge the doc fee, or find a car you like someplace else for the same price w/o the fee.
Note than user gguy8 is being quoted a new 08 x for < $500 over invoice and maybe no doc fee - so your price for a left over 07 with the high doc fee seems a bit much. Your dealer should be more motivated to get rid of the 07, don't you think?
Dennis
I checked the numbers and I get $582.36 per month, which is close enough I guess.
You are getting the car for less than $500 over invoice for an 08, which is good. As long as there is not big doc fee hidden in the money you pay at signing then this could be as good as you can do RIGHT NOW.
The lease numbers from IFS are not very good now, so you could wait until new month or the new month or the next - until IFS gets hungrier to move cars and drops the rates to something like they have had in the past. It may be no drop in rates until the 07 sedans are all/mostly gone or until they have a lot on unsold 08s sitting on the lots. Of course, with a much better lease deal the dealers will have an easier time moving the cars so they may not be willing to discount them as much.
Dennis
Thanks for your quick reply. When do you think would be the best time to actually do the lease? November? December? Basically, do you think it would be wise to wait for better rates, or it won't make much difference? Thanks.
Just to let you know. The license, title, and doc fees total $584.00, and the estimated license/title fees due during lease term is $189.00. Since this is my first lease, please let me know if that is a fair amount to pay. Thanks, again.
If the buy rates on the 08 Journey are 0.00241 for 36 month term, does it make sense for us/me to reduce these high MF's with security deposits? Also, in the event of a total loss accident on the car, how are security deposits handled? Do we get it back if insurance pays the early termination liability on the lease?
Here are the Terms and Conditions from the back of the IFS lease form.
#22 Security Deposit
"We may use the security deposit to offset any amounts that you owe under this Lease. If you perform all of your obligations under this Lease, the security deposit will be returned to you at the end of the lease term. No interest, increase or profits will accrue or be due to you. We have no duty to segregate the security deposit and do not have a fiduciary duty to you in regards to the security deposit."
#26 Damage, Loss or Potential Loss of This Vehicle
"If you owe any past due payments or other amounts under this Lease, we may use your security deposit to offset such amounts."
Would love to hear the consensus on this strategy...
Ethan
Captive lease banks operate completely different. If they need to move cars they can both artificially raise the residuals (to numbers the car would never obtain at auction at lease end) and/or lower the lease money factor. So with IFS it is "fluid" - at the start of the model year they may have little incentive to move cars at a discount so they have higher rates and even couple that with low residuals. If they don't move enough cars this month then next month will like be better. They often look at "days supply" - how many cars nationwide are sitting on the lots. If they stopped making/shipping them today how many days would these cars last until they were sold out? One dealer told me a couple of weeks back that they were 20 days or less on 08 G models nationwide, which is not much.
We could look back at last years numbers, but I am not sure that really would help - it all depends on how many cars they have sitting around and how desperate they are to move them. It could be they put a lot of effort into G37 production and have not made as many sedans as early in the model year as they normally do, the coupes seem to be selling well (and near or over full MSRP) and there are not a lot of sedans sitting most places either.
If you don't HAVE to lease now then I would just wait. For most of us, a new car is really a luxury and not a necessity. The good news is that you can pick a time that is more favorable to getting the best deal.
A dealer ordered an 08 sedan for me after failing repeatedly to get me an 07 that matched my specs. The car came in, but the terrible current rates (really bad on sports pack sedans) means I would be paying a lot more per month on the lease. I told them no thanks. If they still have the car they ordered later when the numbers are better, I will take it. If not, then I will start looking again for the right car at the right price. No sense in getting something not what I want or paying too much for it - since I don't HAVE to have it
Dennis
Dennis
Think of it like a deposit on a rental, like an apartment. If you leave the apartment in nice shape and clean they give you back your deposit. If you leave it filthy or with holes in the walls and ripped carpet, they would keep some or all of your money.
In exchange for you giving them extra deposits they are reducing your "rent" since they have more money to cover any end of term expenses. They also get to hang onto your money for the lease term and pay you no interest on it, in fact they can invest it and make money off of your deposits and keep the profits.
So if you can spare the cash, this is a MUCH SMARTER way to reduce your payments than by paying this same money down into the lease. Any money paid in as a cap cost reduction is normally taxable and could be lost by you in the even of a total loss of the car. Your insurance would pay off the lease bank leaving you with nothing. With the extra deposits, the insurance would pay off the lease bank who would then refund your deposits.
The current IFS rates are TERRIBLE and you should be able to net a MUCH better payment simply by waiting for better terms - but it may be a couple of months. You could also look into a 3rd party lease, lower residual but also a lower MF as well - without having to put up multiple deposits. Check www.leasecompare.com and other online lease brokers to see how the numbers stack up before signing an overpriced IFS lease - if you can't wait for better terms.
Dennis
The dealer has both a loaded 07 and 08, wondering which is a better deal. The 07 has nav, which I really don't care to pay for...
I am trying to figure which will be cheaper IS 350 or G35 Sport
I've seen a couple of references--not frequently though--where people have gotten deals below published invoice price (like KBB or NADA). How are you doing this?
I'm working on an '07 G35 6MT, and the dealer is highly motivated as the '08s are hitting the ground and he still has several 6MT's left. I mentioned going below invoice on price, and he said they will lose money. I pointed out that some other brands seem to do this, and he said it just isn't how Infiniti's pricing works. Below invoice is a money loser for them. He said there are no manufacturer incentives in place to cover what they would lose, so they won't do it.
I don't think IFS does 18k per year, you may have to take a 15k lease and just pay the extra miles at the end of the lease.
Dennis
Right now no known 07 sedan incentives means they could only go to invoice or maybe invoice less holdback - which Edmunds says is a slim 1% of MSRP. So on a loaded up 6mt this would be $400 or less, below that they ARE (or would seem to be) losing money.
E-mail me your dealer info, if they have several 6mts left I may see if they have one in my colors and option list
Dennis
MSRP- 39,265
Vehicle Price- 35,379
Base Invoice- 36,079
Residual net- 55%
Money factor- .00205
Fees include:
1st month payment- 488.59
bank fee - 595
tax- 41.65
doc fee - 249
tax - 17.43
registration - 334
nj tire fee - 8
266.33 (this fee wasn't explained; but I plan to negotiate it down to 0)
Total fees 2,000
I'm trying to negotiate $480 mth. Should I ask them to reduce the registration and doc fee (they appear to be inflated). Not sure if this is relevant but I live in New Jersey. ALL input is greatly appreciated.
If you return it with thousands in damages, you have to pay no matter if you have multiple security deposits in place or not
The easier way to lower the MF is to just wait for better rates. No matter how many you put down you are not going to make much of a dent in the high current rates (0.00245 for sports pack, IIRC). If you wait for better rates AND put down several deposits then you have a real deal.
Dennis
That is a nice price, but then they add the $249 doc fee and the mystery fee on top of that. If you can get them to lose any fees that are not required to license and title and register the car, then if they price it $500 under then giving back the $249 doc fee still nets you under invoice.
The residual can't be changed by the dealer but the MF can be marked up. I have not seen the x MF for left over 07s so I can't tell you if they are marking yours up or not. 0.00205 is fairly low, however.
Dennis
Looking at a 39 month /12,000 mile lease. Info I have is that residual is 56% and money rate is .00237
Offer came back at $596 per month with nothing down but first payment and TTL. Quote from salesperson was that initial calculation required about $1,200 down and that he had taken $500 off MSRP and another $600 reduction in calculated down payment vs quoted one. Seems as if they are keeping way too much of the available profit for themselves and that payment is too high?
Any help with the calculations and opinion on the overall deal would be appreicated.
Dennis
I called the dealership and got the breakdown of the license, title, and doc fees. MV is $360, doc fee is $189, online fee is $7.70, and tire tax is $7.50. I also asked to see if lease is with IFS, and it is. Do you think I can negotiate with the dealership to eliminate some or all of those fees? Look forward to your reply. Thanks.
Dennis