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## Comments

47Thanks!

8Thanks

1PS-- the car is a gray s-touring sedan with leather seats and moonroof package. I also want to add on remote starter and door guards.

157I will be leasing my first car to fill the gap until 2010. John Hine at San Diego has Mazda 3 s Grand Touring wagon AT with MCR compass and autodimming mirror and JCP pearl paint in their inventory. The MSRP is $21,840 form Edmunds, and I think that is close to the MSRP form the John Hine (I cannot get to the web page somehow, it must be my 1997 pc is too old for it :-) ).

If I can get the selling price down to $20,911 or around that figure (since that is what people at my zip code paid per Edmunds) and I am looking for 3 year lease with 15,000 mile/per year on mileage with excellent credit score (I am debt free), what kind of lease plan would you recommend?

By the way, is there a better Mazda 3 wagon to lease besides the one that I am looking for? Since the car is only to fill the gap until 2010, I may need to check my ego to get the payment down as much as possible

Also, what are other things about lease that I need to know before I start to negotiate with dealership besides those mentioned in the Edmunds?

Thank you so very much,

157Can you tell me where you live, so I can compare the lease deal that you got?

Thank you very much,

157The is what I got back from the dealer.

36 month lease with 15,000 miles per year

Selling Price: $20,911

Cash Down: $3,000

Monthly Payment (including tax): $356.45

Money Factor: 0.00293

I found the money factor to be high.

Any comment?

Thank you very much,

Charles

157Thank you very much,

21,969Your deal seems REALLY high, unless the manufacturer support went away recently.

'17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

5923,000 down. $356.45 a month lease for 36 months? On a $17,000 car? I remember back in 1995 when I bought a used 1995 Nissan Altima GLE, loaded to the gills. The total selling price was under $17,000 and after financing it for 60 months, and that was to purchase, not to lease, my monthly payment was only $339.00 a month. And even after my purchase, I still didn't think I got such a great deal back then. I would keep looking if I was you. I would think you should be betting under $300 a

month payments based on this price.

21,969'17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

132008 mazda 3 5 door, no options, manual transmission, 3yr. lease, 12000 miles per year.

msrp= 18520

cap cost= 17500

residual= 56%

money factor, unsure but around = to 6% interest rate

was quoted 311 per month, 670 down (1st month, doc fee, registration)

311 includes 5 % massachusetts sales tax, and excise taxes for 3 years, gap insurance.

Still seems a little high, what do you think?

38,515Once you have a selling price that you are comfortable with, have the dealer calculate your lease payment using its buy rate lease money factor. Vehicles' money factors vary by trim level and term. If you tell me exactly which Mazda3 you are interested in and how long you want to lease it for, I can tell you what its current money factor should be.

Car_manHost

Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

38,515Car_manHost

Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

38,515Car_manHost

Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

2Mazda 3 5 door Grand Touring

w/Moonroof + Bose package and other additions

MSRP: $23,300

Selling Price: $21,600

36 month lease, 15,000 miles a year

No money down

Monthly lease payments of $362 ($392 total with local usage tax).

Not sure of the residual value/money factor but input would be appreciated.

3I need to know what are the residuals and money factors for the 2008 s sport or touring models for 12k and 15k miles. I have, from Carman's post on Aug 1st, the numbers for the 2007 models. I am thinking that the residuals for the 2008 should be higher, but will that make for a better lease deal than on a 2007 with a lower selling price / cap cost?

Lastly, the current dealer i am talking with has said there is a 500 rebate on the 2007 Mazda3, but I can't seem to find or confirm that anywhere on the net. I suspect they are just knocking 500 of my s plan price, which may not even be that great of a deal at this point in August. The MSRP on the 2007 s sport with delivery is 19870, and the s plan price with delivery is 18,550...so with the 500 "rebate" its 18,050. I can do the lease payment calculations and find any hidden profit, but I first need to pin them down on the selling price for this 2007 model, otherwise I think leasing the 2008 becomes more attractive.

Any info would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

606The $500 sounds like a dealer discount. Anyway, here's a little math that can help you...

P = F (A + R) + (A - R)/T

This is the money factor formula that solves for the payment (P). Simply plug in the known values for Money Factor (F), Adj. Cap (A), Residual Value (R), and Term (T) in months.

You can use the following identity...

(V + C) - D = A

to obtain...

V = A - C + D

where...

V = Agreed Upon Value (Sell Price)

A = Adj. Cap.

C = Amount(s) Capitalized (i.e., financed) which may include taxes

D = Cap Reduction(s)

Now you have found "V", the Agreed Upon Value or sell price, which is what you want.

The BEST way to proceed is for YOU to determine the sell price and NOT THE DEALER... BAD IDEA! Check edmunds or kbb for MSRP/Invoice pricing. Examine my posts in the Infiniti forums to get an idea of how to construct a one page lease proposal that you can FAX/email to the dealer. It's designed to save time, money, and aggravation.

I suggest that you DO NOT put cash down as a car is a depreciating asset and, if you have a total loss, it's not likely you'll recover your down payment (cap reduction).

Hope this helps.

John

3Since I would be a ford A plan customer, and hence a Mazda S plan customer, i already know the discounted selling price / cap cost of the vehicle,

except for any undisclosed dealer incentives or other discount for end of model year,which is really what I would like to find out.The dealer is "saying" the price is S plan, which is invoice price, and then less another 500 "rebate." So, my question is, would 500 below invoice be a good price on this 2007 model at this point in August, or should one expect a larger discount?

I have no intention of paying doc fees, wear care, ad fees, etc., or any other hidden profit - i give them 100 to add to the selling price to get adjusted cap cost for title and registration fees and that's it - that covers the 60 dollars or so in true costs from the state and gives the dealer more than fair amount to have a runner get the papers filed, and more dealers are doing it electronically now in Ohio anyway. And tax is added to the monthly payment. I think you and I are saying the same thing, i just want to pin down the best selling price BEFORE i show them why their math is bad.

Here is a tip which is a variation of your one page lease proposal: I put the formulas into an Excel spreadsheet on my laptop. On buying day, the laptop comes to the dealer with me, but stays in the car until i know what the proper selling price of the car is. Then after i get the dealer's payment, which never seems to add up based on the agreed selling price, then the lappy comes in and i let them try to explain why their math skills are so bad. :surprise:

Thanks again for taking the time to respond.

606A cursory look suggests to me that $500 below invoice falls within the domain of reasonableness. However, I would need to do some research that captures supply/demand considerations, incentives, etc. Having done that, I arrive at a sell price or agreed upon value. The sell price is reasonable and so I don't even consider all the other crap like doc fees, advertising, etc. And so "hidden profit" isn't even a consideration because there is none. Afterall, I'm the one that determines the selling price and, everything after that, just falls right into place. I'm always in control of the deal and that is the key. Another key to negotiating is DON'T.

I have programmed my TI 84 calculator to do fairly sophisticated lease calculations and have created an excel spreadsheet that does it all including lease amortization schedules. I'm convinced my programs are superior to most, if not all, lease programs used by dealerships only because so many of them contain mathematical flaws.

The numbers in my lease proposal are ALWAYS spot on. All the dealer needs to do is say YES or NO. If NO, I simply FAX/email to another dealer. If YES, they can trasfer the numbers in my proposal directly onto the lease agreement. I tell them to draw up the papers and have the keys ready because I don't want to spend any more than one-half hour at the dealership. Every number appearing in the lease contract must

exactlymatch (to the penny) those in my proposal. I insist that the contract be completed correctly and I make that very clear to them beforehand. If their calculations don't match mine, then they made a mistake somewhere and I'm not about to argue with them or try to find their errors. They're in this business and they ought to know how the calcs are done. If not, I walk. End of discussion. Pretty simple, huh?I'm not going to get into a classroom discussion with any dealership about how they do their math. And, I'm not about to educate them either unless, of course, they are willing to compensate me. These people are not the brightest bulbs on the chandelier and academics just isn't a priority item. Most of them can't do math anyway and frequently argue that the "computer does it" with very little understanding. I am a mathematician and so leasing mathematics is a breeze for me. I can do this stuff in my sleep and they should be able to do so as well. But, that's life in America the Great.

In Ohio, you have to be very careful particularly if you're considering a sign and drive lease. Dealers frequently miscalculate the payment and, hence, taxes are miscalculated as well. In Ohio, taxes are computed on the total payment. This payment is an intermediate payment, if you will, and is used only for the purpose of determining tax liability. Accordingly, it captures all taxable items capitalized in the lease. Non-taxable items (e.g., security deposit) must be kept seperate and out of this calulation. Therefore, it's important to seperate taxable items from non-taxable items. I have yet to find an Ohio dealer that can correctly compute a sign and drive lease. However, I did manage to find one dealer that agreed with my calculations after they input my numbers into their computer. However, they couldn't arrive at my numbers independently. Below is an example of what I'm talking about...

_____________________________________________

2007 Acura TSXRetail Pricing Information

Base MSRP 2007Acura TSX 5 Speed Automatic (CL9687JW)………...……………… 28,090.00

Premium Pearl White……………………………….………………………………………….… 0.00

Destination Charge…………………………………………………………….…………….…… 670.00

MSRP……………………………………………………………………..…………….…...…… 28,760.00

Agreed Upon Value……………………………………………………………………….……… 26,700.00

Amounts Financed1st Month’s Payment……………………………………………………………………………… 361.71

Security Deposit………………………………………………………………………………….. 375.00

Acquisition Fee…………………………………………………………………………………… 595.00

Sales Tax @6.00% x 35 x 329.77……………………………………………….…………… 692.52

Capitalized CostsGross Capitalized Cost………………………………………………………………….……… 28,724.23

Capitalized Cost Reduction…………………………………………………………….………. 0.00

Adjusted Capitalized Cost……………………………………………………………………… 28,724.23

Residual DataResidual Factor………………………………………………..…………………….…………. 0.62

Residual Value (Residual Factor × MSRP)…………………………………….…….….… 17,831.20

Cost of Money/TermMoney Factor…………………………………………….……………………….……….…… 0.00127

Term (months)……………………………………………………………………….………… 36

Lease Payment ItemizationMonthly Lease Payment including Sales Tax…………………..……….…………….…….… 361.71

Monthly Lease Payment excluding Sales Tax………………………………………..……….. 340.99

Taxable Monthly Lease Payment……………………………………………………………… 329.77

________________________________________________________________________________- - - - - - - ______

Charges Payable at Lease OriginationLicense, Title, Registration Fees (estimated)…….……………….……………….….………. 120.00

Amount Due at Lease Signing……………………………………………....……………....…. 120.00

MiscellaneousGAP Coverage Included

Annual Mileage Allowance: 10,000

Disposition Fee: None

Excess Mileage @ $0.15 per mile

Reg. M Disclosure: NA

____________________________________________

John

Medina, Ohio

PS: If you're near Medina (near Cleveland), maybe we can have a cup of coffee. Good luck my friend.

606One other area that I forgot to mention and that is the reserve level associated with the cost of money (i.e., money factor, interest rate). When I'm in the data collection mode, I always ask the dealer for the rate with 0% reserves. That rate is called the base rate or buy rate. Reserves work in much the same way that points do on mortgage loans. It is a form of dealer participation ( hidden profit) where the fund provider compensates the dealer for writing the lease at a higher money factor or interest rate. And so, reserves is another potential profit center for the dealer. For example, a fund provider's tiered rate structure might look something like this...

0.00130 + 0% reserves

0.00150 + 1% reserves

0.00170 + 2% reserves

A 2% reserve level means that the dealer receives 2% of the adjusted capitalized cost (excluding any acquisition/bank fee). The customer never sees the 2% because it's embedded in the money factor or interest rate. So, I suppose that would be classified as financing hidden profit.

Aware of this "hidden profit", I always ask for the buy rate. If the dealer insists on 1% or 2% reserves, I simply deduct the dollar equivalent from the agreed upon value. Sort of like the Rob Peter to Pay Paul Principle. They can jack up the rate as much as they like and I just deduct it from the sell price and use the result as my new sell price.

John

125I live in Maryland and I am in the middle of looking to lease a Mazda3 GT 5 door(hatchback) I visited the local Mazda dealer and they gave me the following price:

Mazda 3 5 door Grand Touring

w/Moonroof + Bose package and other additions

MSRP: $22,875

Selling Price: $21,785

Could you work up a lease package for 24 months/15,000 a year. Also, what is the current money factor and residual?

Thanks in advace.

383I guesstimate your pyments for 24 months to be 350-360 a month.

383thats a nice price..is that a 2008?

25Here is the currently proposed deal with no money down.

2007 Mazda3 GT 5 door with Bose/sunroof package and automatic transmission.

MSRP $22,775

Selling price $21,805

Residual 64%

Money factor .00154

Taxes $1,095 (taxes are 5% in Maryland)

Acquisition fee $595

Processing fee $99

The monthly payment would be $443.27

What does everyone think? I have a few questions.

Are taxes figured out on the total cost of the vehicle or on the monthly payment? Should I pay the taxes up front or put them into the monthly payment? Is the acquisition fee and processing fee negotiable?

Any other comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

21,969'17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

25I calculated the lease on my own came up with an an approximate payment of $375. I'm not sure how taxes are calculated in Maryland - up front on the total selling price or by the monthly payment price.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and/or advice.

63,165But, at that monthly price, I'd buy the car.. You'd get the same payment over 60 months, more or less..

Unless you are upside-down on a trade, that price seems way out of line... :surprise:

MODERATORPrices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

Need help picking out a make/model, finding inventory, or advice on pricing? Talk to an Edmunds Car Shopping Advisor606What is the adjusted capcost? If your payment is correct, then the adjusted cap is substantially higher than the sell price of $21,805. Even if you cap the sales tax and acquisition fee, the total amounts to $23,495. Using this as an adjusted cap triggers a payment of $430.25 or about $13 less than your payment. Your payment suggests an adjusted cap of $23,796.24. Looks as though there is an additional $300 coming from somewhere.

You're not providing enough information for me to respond intelligently. Something is missing. I have no clue how you arrived at the $443.27 payment. Taxes appear to be based on $21,900 ($1,095/0.05). Looks a little shakey to me. I need a break down of the adjusted cap.

John

Medina, Ohio

25Thanks for your response. This is the response I received from the dealership:

New 2007 Mazda3s 5-door Grand Touring Auto

Moonroof and Bose 6cd in-dash changer. - MSRP $22,775.00

Your Special Internet Price is $21,805.00*

TAGS $202.00

RESIDUAL 64%

MONEY FACTOR 0.00154

TAXES $1,095.20

PROCESSING CHARGE $99.00

ACQUISITION FEE $595.00

PAYMENTS ON 24 MONTHS WITH JUST 1ST PAYMENT UPFRONT IS $ 443.27

I have not met with the dealership in person. Correspondence has been using email. Therefore, I have not seen their payment formula. Before I respond I was hoping for helpful comments (like yours) from the members of this forum.

Any comment would be greatly appreciated.