Honda Civic vs Volkswagen Jetta

hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
Honda raised prices of the Civic while Volkswagen reduced them on certain Jettas, to where the prices of these premium compacts overlap. Meanwhile, the exterior and most interior dimensions of both have increased. The Civic excels in fuel economy and reliability whereas the Jetta generally scores at or near the top in driving dynamics and interior design.

Which of these two do you prefer?
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Comments

  • blaneblane Member Posts: 2,017
    Hondas also excel in reliability. Volkswagens have been abysmal in comparison for the past decade.
  • cardog3cardog3 Member Posts: 4
    I watched for the introduction of the new Jetta and Civic. I finally drove both this weekend. I have driven various Jettas since 85 and finishing a 96 up at 182,000. Both are great vehicles. I like the mileage of the Civic and I think it is more quiet than the Jetta. The trunk on the Jetta has always been a big factor since it is bigger than the civic and the Accord. My 11 year old son loves the trunk opener on the new Passat. They need to put that on the Jetta. The Jetta is a couple thousand over priced. I hear that VW has pulled several items off of the trim level 1 and moved it to higher trim models on the 06. Big mistake. The Jetta 5 cylinder is noisy. Seating position in the Jetta is better. Good luck!
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Did you test automatics or manuals? Which one was more fun to drive?

    Also, how has the reliability and repair expenses been on your Jettas?
  • cardog3cardog3 Member Posts: 4
    I drove the automatics. I gave up standards long ago. I know they are more fun though. My Rabbit was a stick and it was as fun as my old bug. The Jetta and Civic both have 5 speed automatics. I haven't had too many problems with my Jetta's but agree that they are more problematic than Honda's. VW just can't keep up with Honda engine technology. VW couldn't squeeze any more hp out their 4 cylinder so they added one. My wife likes leather and that is the only downfall of the Civic. I have stayed with VW partly because of a great service manager at my dealership. I am looking for mileage so I will most likely be parting ways with VW.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    " I am looking for mileage so I will most likely be parting ways with VW."

    The Civic's (30/40 mpg) fuel economy is truly impressive, whereas the VW 2.5's is somewhat disappointing. But, then, the TDI engine trumps the Civic, although there are tradeoffs with the diesel. Also, the Civic costs considerably less than the TDI Jetta.
  • lorelore Member Posts: 17
    I test drove both. My family has had civics and accords mostly and I feel they are great cars. But the problem is that they are just plain cars, no snazz to them. The jetta outta the lot was just a thrill ride from the start. I tried both out in manual and the jetta wins hands down. More power, smoother ride, better handling. I even like the interior better and the jettas have a higher safety rating, 6 airbags and standard ABS.

    To get the civic with all the options of the standard jetta would actually put the civic higher in price. I picked up the VE 2.5 which is practically a steal. Huge trunk, options galor, fun to drive, roomy, comforatble, and got power. I hope it's pretty reliable, havent had it too long.

    If you want a car you can drive forever thats cheap to maintain and cheap on gas, go with the civic. If you want a fun car that's got pep, power, and comfort than try out the jettas. Both are good cars, its just your preference on what you want.
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Member Posts: 690
    HpmTorque said:
    > The Civic excels in fuel economy and reliability whereas the Jetta generally scores at or near the top in driving dynamics and interior design.

    You said:
    > Hondas also excel in reliability. Volkswagens have been abysmal in comparison for the past decade.

    I'm sorry - did I miss the word reliability in the first statement? Time for me to get my eyes checked.... :sick:
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    With the pricing of the New Jetta, I really don't think these two cars are in the same ballpark; the Jetta is more expensive. Also, there are a few things that can't be had on a Civic, which are present on a Jetta.

    The Civic price increase has been minimal, while as VW went for the Accord/Camry 4 price range for the Jetta.

    As for crash tests, the 06 Civic hasn't been tested yet (IMO), so we would have to wait for those.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Given VW's sharp loss of market share in the past few years, I'm thinking that VW dealers may be more willing to deal than Honda dealers would be on the new Civic, thereby narrowing the gap between the MSRPs of these two cars. Jettas would still tend to be more expensive, but maybe not by much.
  • lorelore Member Posts: 17
    If you get the Jetta 2.5 VE, the price is a steal. Its pretty comparable, if you add the features that come standard on a Jetta on the Civic. That and also civics are in pretty high demand atm.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    The three most popular vehicles MSN Autos, based on visits to the site's vehicle research pages during the second three months of 2005 are Jetta (first), Accord (second), and Civic (third).
  • stupendousmanstupendousman Member Posts: 36
    I highly recommend the Civic over the Jetta. My wife and I currently have a 2000 Jetta and the reliability has been awful. Issues with the sensor, thermosat, door locks, windows, trunk lock. Now, it's losing oil at the rate of a quart every 1,000 miles. We can't wait to dump this vehicle.

    Before I married (and inherited the Jetta) I contemplated getting a GTI. With our current experience, I would never ever get another Vdub again. In contrast to this, an exgirlfriend and my parents have owned Hondas. They seem to crank these things out with "just enough" power. No headsnapping starts, but at the same time, enough to get the job done.

    Finally, I'd say handling is subjective. Even though reviews rave about it, I hate the handling on our Jetta. It feels numb and I don't feel any connection to the road. I much much prefer the handling of my WRX. I personally even prefer the handling on my parent's late 90's Accord to the Jetta. Part of this is due to weight. To me, the Jetta is bloated. Hondas tend to be lighter on their feet...

    Just my personal experience and opinion...
  • allhorizonallhorizon Member Posts: 483
    VW just can't keep up with Honda engine technology. VW couldn't squeeze any more hp out their 4 cylinder so they added one.

    I think that's a bit of a generalization based on that particular engine, which has been designed with the American market in mind. The idea is to skimp a bit on fuel economy but gain low-end torque. The presumption was that would fit the American taste... Honda engines typically achieve high hp through high revving. Their low-end torque is usually smallish, which gives you good mileage. That is a good marketing strategy (high hp + good mileage), but if you actually drive making use of the hp, you end up with a buzzy engine and not so good mileage, after all.

    As to engine technology, VW/Audis new Diesel and FSI engines are very much high-tech. I'd rather get the 2.0TFSI in the Jetta than the base engine: much more power for about the same mileage. Then there are the new dual-charged engines that get even better mileage, hp, and low-end torque - which hopefully will became available in the US, soon. Take the 170hp 1.4l engine, for example. Or the 170hp 2.0 Diesel. Both provide good power with great mileage. Higher displacement versions of the dual-charged engine have also been announced.

    So, there are 1.8-2.0 4 cyl. VW/Audi engines that make ~200-225hp now, and the dual-charged one will make about 250. VW just prefers charging the engines over high revving.
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Member Posts: 690
    Good luck with your Honda. Keep in mind though, due to the popularity of sport import cars (drifting), your Honda has a much higher risk of being targeted by thieves than VWs.
  • yesrohyesroh Member Posts: 290
    The Civic because of what you listed, and I've driven a Jetta and a Polo (in Germany) and was not impressed by a car which cost thousands more than my Civic (the Jetta). It was more expensive than my V-6 Accord and less refined than my old Civic. I think they are overpriced too, but if the prices drop then maybe that's not the case anymore.
    By the way, I loved my VW Passat Turbo Diesel which I drove on the Autobahn in Germany. But it was drab and unattractive. Yet...fast, very efficient (36 mpg at 100-130 miles an hour) and rode smooth.
  • yesrohyesroh Member Posts: 290
    Of course the argument could be made that they are at higher risk because they are more desirable. It's always something! I don't see the Yugo GV high on anyone's theft list.
  • waiwai Member Posts: 327
    So you prefer Civic & Passat TDI to Jetta. How do you come up that a new accord is cheaper than a new Jetta? Is the price in Germany you talk about. I don't think you can drive at 130 mph and still have a smooth ride in any vehicle.
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Member Posts: 690
    Desirability - the high probability of calling the insurance company while walking home.
  • allhorizonallhorizon Member Posts: 483
    Actually, now that I think about it, VWoA and AoA should call their engines:

    torque on demand

    Oops, that's been used, already...

    So, how about: so much more oomph, here and now. ;)
  • hangaralf1hangaralf1 Member Posts: 107
    with "torque on demand" anyway, they would shorten it to TOD - which in German means "dead" - kinda like the nova in mexico or spain
  • chineyzchineyz Member Posts: 1
    Its a good thing that the civic is a front wheel drive then huh..FwD cant drift...:) So i guess those thieves will just have to turn around and steal something else.
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Member Posts: 690
    >Its a good thing that the civic is a front wheel drive then huh..FwD cant drift... So i guess those thieves will just have to turn around and steal something else.

    If there's a will, there's a way... :shades:
  • blaneblane Member Posts: 2,017
    curtc,

    Despite all of your recent posts, you made an excellent decision. I hope that you got a decent trade, or sold privately for a good price.

    Best of luck with your new wheels. The 2006 Civic is a fine choice.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    "The seat in the Civic cut off circulation to my legs the seating is so short."

    I applaud your candor. However, how are you dealing with the circulation issue? I would think this problem alone would have been a deal breaker for the Civic, given the distance you drive, and the fact that VWs are generally considered to have very comfortable seats.
  • jetta_dieseljetta_diesel Member Posts: 1
    Honda, a great company which devotes all its power into design and support for what they build is also shown in VW. Although that focus has only been to a specific type of fuel, based on today’s market of cars. Vw not only succeeds in having indestructible 4 cylinder gas engines, but having a 4 cylinder diesel engine that has four times the tolerance of it's brother engine. Honda on the other hand doesn't, yes they have a very good "V-Tec" motor, that has "increased HP without sacrificing fuel efficiency", but have they branched into different fuel types..... "No". Vw has it's sights for the new world, where we will see Bio-Diesel, Hydrogen Fuel Cell, and Hydrogen Powered cars, and yes Honda will be there to back the fuel types, but they will always be a few steps behind VW and they will always be a midline sedan. Vw has proven itself by being able to market 4 cylinder diesels to V10 diesels, yet also supporting it's brother engines and still survive even through the worst of scandals. The main point is that VW will reign supreme until we are able to travel to other systems of planets, and then VW will have it's own version of space tavelling ships. This saying that good companies just push the boundries, but great companies break the boundries and head for more that company is VW.
  • chidorochidoro Member Posts: 125
    Honda on the other hand doesn't, yes they have a very good "V-Tec" motor, that has "increased HP without sacrificing fuel efficiency", but have they branched into different fuel types..... "No". Vw has it's sights for the new world, where we will see Bio-Diesel, Hydrogen Fuel Cell, and Hydrogen Powered cars, and yes Honda will be there to back the fuel types, but they will always be a few steps behind VW and they will always be a midline sedan.

    That just isn't even remotely correct. Honda has a newly refined diesel that makes it's way into the 2006 euro accord, a natural gas civic and the only consumer fuel cell passenger car in their civic from what I understand.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Honda on the other hand doesn't, yes they have a very good "V-Tec" motor, that has "increased HP without sacrificing fuel efficiency", but have they branched into different fuel types..... "No". Vw has it's sights for the new world, where we will see Bio-Diesel, Hydrogen Fuel Cell, and Hydrogen Powered cars, and yes Honda will be there to back the fuel types, but they will always be a few steps behind VW and they will always be a mid line sedan.

    Wow, someone call the condescension police!

    You say that VW leads Honda in innovation. Hmm, do you consider a car that weighs a lot more than the A8, sized the same, priced the same, all that minus the cachet of a luxury nameplate, as innovation? Luxury car buyers are speaking volumes with their checkbooks, as they decide not to buy the ninety thousand dollar flop. In your VW's defense, the idea of someone lining up for a ninety thousand dollar luxury Honda sedan is a far-fetched as well.

    By the way, VW would have a lot more going for it if they focused on the quality issues first, then quantity of features next. Now, to alleviate the inevitable comment, Honda is not perfect, nor does it claim to be. It does score much higher in all consumer ratings magazines as far as reliability goes.

    In closing, in the under $30k market, price is a much bigger factor than in the mid-lux etc. class. The Jetta should be compared with the Accord based on its price, but the Civic otherwise.
  • mitchcmitchc Member Posts: 39
    Agree with most of your post, but heard something interesting on the radio a few weeks ago -

    Apparently, the Phaeton was not a flop, in that the chassis is used by VW to underpin it's Bentley Continental GT and Flying Spur which have been wildly successful and profitable worldwide. Don't underestimate the creativity of these large corporations. They usually have 3-4 uses for every platform they develop. For example, if you don't like the new Jetta, fine - but the reality is that its underpinnings are those of the Audi A4 - making it an extremely fine vehicle to drive.

    I have owned numerous Honda vehicles and have been 100% satisfied with all of them, but they don't drive like a Jetta, which I happen to like very much for the moment. and feel it handles very similarly to my previous 99 BMW 3 series, which was a superb riding vehicle.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Apparently, the Phaeton was not a flop, in that the chassis is used by VW to underpin it's Bentley Continental GT and Flying Spur which have been wildly successful and profitable worldwide.

    I have read the same things in car magazines. I didn't say that the "chassis" was a flop, but that the Volkswagen Phaeton is. It is not selling wildly, despite the world-class underpinnings. To paraphrase what Motor Trend said, the world appears to be unprepared to pay a small fortune for a Volkswagen. It's not that it is not a wonderful machine to drive, in fact, I am sure it is quite a magnificent car. Truth is, people that want a magnificent car, and have the money to spend on one, also want the cachet of a magnificent car; which isn't what comes to mind with Volkswagen. Great driving dynamics? Certainly! Luxury nameplate? The public seems to say no. I think they should let Audi keep the high-end market, but that's my opinion, not necessarily the right one. :)

    P.S. My post #33 is in response to post number 30, I felt I should clarify since I clicked "reply" to #32 instead.
  • herrkaleuherrkaleu Member Posts: 62
    you said "They usually have 3-4 uses for every platform they develop. For example, if you don't like the new Jetta, fine - but the reality is that its underpinnings are those of the Audi A4 - making it an extremely fine vehicle to drive."

    but the Audi A 4 shares a plattform with the Passat (the current one is a B6, whereas the current Jetta, Audi A 3 are based on the A5 Palttform)

    As far as innovative fuels go, Honda has great Diesel engines but doesn't see a market for them in the US. Well, a gallon of diesel today in Madison/WI is $3.45, gasoline is $2.55. Even when it saves fuel, it'd be more expensive to drive a diesel here. In europe it is the other way around, which explains the success of diesel there. As soon as Diesel here would be economical, Honda would put out an engine for each of their models quickly. but hey only put on the market what they think they can sell..... hybrids, gasoline, methane.... and they actually can sell them.
    As comparing Jetta to Civic goes. The Jetta is a competitor to the Accord/Camry. Comparing to a civic will always make it too expensive. Trunk size: more than the Accord
    Driving habbit: comparable/better than Accord
    Available features: More than Accord.
    So, the Jetta is great when you compare it to the right car (except for reliabiliy and economy, though). comparing a Jetta to a Civic is like apples and pears....
    both are great in their class..
  • mitchcmitchc Member Posts: 39
    I agree with you. The Jetta and Civic don't really compare - in our minds. But you know to whom they line up for? Women. (I'm assuming you're a guy given your methodical logic above). My wife, for example. is exactly the kind of person who would put these two vehicles up against each other. If there wasn't a reliability issue, VW might win, but if you give that significant weighting, Civic crushes the Jetta. Do not underestimate the importance of esoteric things such as "style" or "appearance". To those people, the Jetta may really make it difficult for them to settle on the "safe" choice, the Civic.

    The other piece of the discussion is whether you have personally driven one of these new Jettas for several weeks or more? I have owned or driven Accords, Integras and Civics for > 10 years (loved 'em all), but when I got into the new Jetta, it really felt like I was in a BMW. The "european" feel is real - and it's very, very nice. Of course, I may live to regret it if my car starts going to the shop in 6 months. My wife chose the car. but I just like the 42 mpg I'm getting. Even with diesel at $3.19, our fuel bill went from $50/ week for a 4runner to $42 every 2-3 weeks for the Jetta. That's including the current price differential. It's not truly an economical decision when you crunch the numbers, but it feels good to pay less on a weekly basis while reducing my CO2 emmissions by 60%!

    By the way, what if diesel prices are 30 cents cheaper than unleaded next summer? Do I win? What if gas goes to $5 but I'm running biodiesel for $4? It could happen. Let's wait for next year's hurrican season and see! Yikes! Bottom line is if things get really, really bad, Civic owners will be on bikes and Jetta TDI owners will be running on peanut oil.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The other piece of the discussion is whether you have personally driven one of these new Jettas for several weeks or more?

    I haven't driven the new Jetta, but I have driven a New Beetle Turbo, and it had excellent driving dynamics, I would likely agree with you on the Jetta's dynamics too!

    By the way, what if diesel prices are 30 cents cheaper than unleaded next summer? Do I win?

    If this becomes a race for the cheaper fuels, and diesel is ultimately 75 cents cheaper (per gallon) then yoI will definitley win out in the fuel bill department, but I currently lead due to gasoline being $2.69 and diesel being around $3.35! ;) This may not be close to what your numbers are in your area, but mine have too large a price spread to think about diesels, as you can see.

    i agree with you. The Jetta and Civic don't really compare - in our minds. But you know to whom they line up for? Women. (I'm assuming you're a guy given your methodical logic above).


    Yes, I am a guy, and do understand how some people choose style and swagger over a "safer" choice, and many guys are just as guilty as women; I wouldn't pin that on our ladies alone.

    Even with diesel at $3.19, our fuel bill went from $50/ week for a 4runner to $42 every 2-3 weeks for the Jetta.


    Congrats on the savings, and glad you got out of your SOB, I mean SUV :shades: . I hope you and your VW are very happy together, really! I'd love for VW to be on a comeback as far as reliability goes!

    Thanks,
    thegrad
  • waiwai Member Posts: 327
    Everywhere in the world except USA that diesel fuel cost lots less than gasoline fuel, thats why I will not buy TDI in USA. I don't agree that Jetta is a female car especially the GLI with 17"BBS rims. It looks great for male driver But I do agree that my 97 Vetec Civic is not handle so well and so stable as the Jetta.
  • waiwai Member Posts: 327
    Driving an accord/civic on highway >80 mph is like floating on the wheel, while Jetta will make you feel safe and stick to the road. and the steering wheel is more solid. I would rather sacrifice a few premium gas mpg to drive in Jetta VR6 (not TDI) more nimble than an Accord and more stable & safe than a Civic. The Gli performs like a wolf with a sheep appearance.For me I don't care about the rattling sound and I have no issue since I bought my GLI 6 months ago.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Driving an accord/civic on highway >80 mph is like floating on the wheel

    I'm not sure what problems the accord you drove has, but the last three i have driven have not had a problem like the one you talk about. The steering is very sharp and direct, and the suspension is taut, keeping you planted to the road while not sacrificing ride comfort. Not saying the VW drives poorly, I am saying the Accord drives wondefully, and offers one of the best values on the market while doing so!

    For me I don't care about the rattling sound

    That's good news. My 1996 has just developed its first rattle after 155,000 miles, but I am not convinced it is unrelated to something rattling in the glovebox.
  • lorelore Member Posts: 17
    My whole family has honda's, accords, civics, CR-V's, and one even has the minivan. I decided to get a Jetta myself, personally because I've always wanted one. The Jetta, Civic, and Accord are all good cars, its just that there are more enthusiast that would pick one over the other. Curtc obviously likes civics, maybe had a bad experience with VW's, I dunno. Just take out the cars for a test drive and decide for yourself.

    I traveled to Germany and Europe a bit for business. I got to see and drive a good number of the german cars on their autobahn highways. Just the look and feel of german engineering was enough to switch me from the Honda/Toyota side to the german side. Unfortunately I'm still a bit younger and cannot afford to buy a BMW at this stage in life. I test drove an 05 civic, 05 accord, and 06 jetta and was just sold on the jetta. Just the feel, look, and driving experience was enough to seal the deal.

    Yes Hondas mainly last forever (or at least a good while), but to me its a blah car. It's a safe car that will get you around, but I commute to work. I would rather have a more comfortable ride (honda seats bother me), more fun ride, than to have my car last 20 years. I will prob get a new car in 7-10 years so if the Jetta lasts that long, I will be a happy man. I dont really need a car to last 20 years, I end up selling them anyway.

    So far I've had zero issues with my Jetta, and its a ride I actually look forward to in the morning. I know if I had gotten the Honda (Civic or Accord), I would just look at it as my commute vehicle. The jetta on the other hand is a FUN ride. :P
  • waiwai Member Posts: 327
    Thats why I dump my civic in the garage and park my Jetta on the driveway for me to look at it frequently and drove to work everyday.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    (curtc) Well said! You allude to what may be the underlying main difference between Asian -vs- German branded automobiles. This is almost embedded in the thinking of the engineers that design the automobiles.

    The Asian autos are designed to be ignored. (skip oil change, antifreeze changes, filter changes...etc) Just drive them.

    The German-branded autos come from a mindset thinking that the owners WILL be following the maintenance schedule religiously. (including special requirements for oil, antifreeze and other items.) If not followed... then things will likely break.

    ===

    Historically, the flipside has been that Aisan cars are bboorriinng to drive. Road manors are usually a "disconnected" feeling from the controls. Squishy ride and handling have been the norm for Asian cars. One does not get the complete sense of being "in control". Also, cheep-looking plastic parts are often found in the interier. Asian cars also RUST OUT significantly faster than most other vehicles. (important in the snowbelt)

    German automobiles have a reputation for exquisite handling manners, powerful brakes and extremely comfortable seats (200 mile trip does not become painful sitting) and general better quality materials/paint/finish. The factory 12year/unlimited milage corrosion wartantee reflects the use of thicker metal/ galvanization and other body treatments that Asian cars can only DREAM of having. (this heavier body results in lower MPG as compared to Asian cars) Also, VWs are consistantly rated SAFER in a colision than most Asian cars.
  • chidorochidoro Member Posts: 125
    The comparison is between the Jetta and the Civic. The Civic has always been a class leader in the safety department and I certainly would expect that to continue especially given the Safety for Everyone initiative Honda set forth.

    "Cheap looking" and "Disconnected or squishy" are totally subjective claims. The seats in the Civic have always been a class leader so I am not sure where this claim of discomfort comes about.

    It sounds as if you have a whole number of unquantifiable and subjective reasons to dislike the Civic. That is fine, however, I wouldn't begin to toss around your subjective claims as any type of official objective observation (short of crash test scores which, again, I'm sure the Civic will equal).
  • waiwai Member Posts: 327
    "The Civic has always been a class leader in the safety department and I certainly would expect that to continue especially given the Safety for Everyone initiative Honda set forth."

    Most of the deadly accidents happens in Civic more than in Jetta. We sometimes see Civic torn into half after crashed into a tree/lamp post but this will never happen in Jetta. As you can tell that a Jetta weights almost 200 lbs more than a Civic.
    Also whenever I drove my Civic for a long distance, I have a sore back, but not in my Jetta.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    It is not I that have the "number of unquantifiable and subjective reasons to dislike the Civic"... I am pointing out FACTS I have owned a Cvic and Jetta.

    FACT: Hondas RUST OUT.... here in the snow-belt, rust-resistance is a #1 requirement. Who cares if a car is "reliable" if it does not pass State inspection because of holes in the floorboards?

    FACT: My Cvic neede a new exhaust system every 2 years... again, the cheep material could not stand up to the roadsalt.

    FACT : The Jetta/Golf platform is perhaps one of the safest in crash tests and real world -on the crash scene- collisions for small vehicles. Many parents would not allow their kids to drive anything less.

    FACT: The Jetta/Golf platform had side-airbags many years - I beleive the Cvic has only offered them for a couple years.

    FACT: The Jetta/Golf platform has offered ESP for years -- Does Cvic even offer it?

    FACT: The Cvic is Hondas entry-level offering. (and so is Jetta for VW)... but virtually all "reviews" of these vehicles only mention the high-quality interior of the VW. Anytime I see Cvic interior mentiond, it does not mention "high-quality"

    FACT: Some long-time drivers of German road cars find the handling of Honda to be vague. The same "feel of the road" just is not there. (I will concede that Honda is getting better and I expect will eventually catch up)

    FACT: VW uses heavier guage steel for their bodies. This is a trade-off that reduces MPG... but improves stiffness and safety.

    FACT: After a severe hailstorm... VW needs a paintjob while all Hondas in the same parkinglot are nearly unsalvagable!!

    And PLEASE do not talk about "class leader"-- the very term is unquantifiable (any car maker can define a "class" in which their automobiles "lead")

    Like when Ford says they have the "best selling truck" (did you know they include the counts of ALL the rental and lease fleets that use Ford?)

    Or when GM says they have the "most dependable, longest lasting...blaa blaa" This is a case of GM defining the "class" in which they are leading.
  • ttbuyerttbuyer Member Posts: 45
    Bottom line:

    VWs fall apart.

    Hondas don't.

    WINNER: HONDA!
  • allhorizonallhorizon Member Posts: 483
    This discussion has fallen apart to the point that I suggest the moderator bring this to an end. I have not seen any insight in here in a while. curtc, I respect your special needs, and the Civic is likely a good choice for you, personally, but please do understand that there are millions of customers out there who have different dealer experiences and different personal needs and wants.

    Not all of us rate the number of times we need to go to the service department per year as number one on our shopping list, and not all of us are that infatuated with our cars that we have to regress to hyperbole. Most reliability and maintenance differences between cars these days are a lot slimmer than apparent from simple listings (and from consumer magazine statements --- who live on it).

    I have said this before, if you absolutely hate anything ever to have fixed on your car (although things will need to be fixed, eventually), and you don't care much about driving experience, and you either don't drive more than 10K miles per year or sell your car before 100K miles, perhaps a Honda or a Toyota is your best and only choice. Ever wonder why there are more than 10 other companies out there that not only remain competitive but also excel in certain markets? Because: we are not all made equal.

    So, please respect that as much as the Civic is one's best friend, it may as well be the next person's worst nightmare. And vice versa, of course.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    C'mon folks, we need to stick to the cars. Everyone who wants to post an opinion about one of the subject vehicles is welcome to do so. Anyone who feels this discussion has no merit only needs to look to the multitudes of other discussions we have on all things automotive to find other venues in which to be engaged and entertained.

    All who post here, however, need to not snipe at each other. That is neither necessary nor appropriate
  • chidorochidoro Member Posts: 125
    It is not I that have the "number of unquantifiable and subjective reasons to dislike the Civic"... I am pointing out FACTS I have owned a Cvic and Jetta.

    FACT: Hondas RUST OUT.... here in the snow-belt, rust-resistance is a #1 requirement. Who cares if a car is "reliable" if it does not pass State inspection because of holes in the floorboards?


    Actually, every car rusts out eventually. Your "fact" is purely conjecture. You state no tests, no numbers, no time frames, no nothing but conjecture.

    FACT: My Cvic neede a new exhaust system every 2 years... again, the cheep material could not stand up to the roadsalt.

    Welp, your supplier stunk I guess. North NJ driver of a '98 Civic, exhuast replaced one time after five years and my current one is nearly 3 years old now w/out nary a problem. My wife's 2001 Civic will be 5 in February, exhaust system is fine. So sorry you had bad luck.

    FACT : The Jetta/Golf platform is perhaps one of the safest in crash tests and real world -on the crash scene- collisions for small vehicles. Many parents would not allow their kids to drive anything less.

    I wouldn't dispute your first sentence nor did I in my original statement. And what's "less"? Less than the excellent crash ratings that seem to follow Honda around in whatever they build?

    FACT: The Jetta/Golf platform had side-airbags many years - I beleive the Cvic has only offered them for a couple years.

    And, is there a point when comparing two 2006 models where side and curtains are standard on every model?

    FACT: The Jetta/Golf platform has offered ESP for years -- Does Cvic even offer it?

    No, Civic doesn't. The Jetta is 15% more expensive.

    FACT: The Cvic is Hondas entry-level offering. (and so is Jetta for VW)... but virtually all "reviews" of these vehicles only mention the high-quality interior of the VW. Anytime I see Cvic interior mentiond, it does not mention "high-quality"

    Actually, all I ever see is that Civic looks nothing like an entry level offering. That's pretty much been the m.o. of the Civic for years.

    FACT: Some long-time drivers of German road cars find the handling of Honda to be vague. The same "feel of the road" just is not there. (I will concede that Honda is getting better and I expect will eventually catch up)

    Some people like the taste of calf's liver. Your "feel of the road" is purely a subjective statement.

    FACT: VW uses heavier guage steel for their bodies. This is a trade-off that reduces MPG... but improves stiffness and safety.

    The cage and breakaway properties are most important in crash circumstances. I don't recall reading anywhere that the stiffness or safety on the Civic are compromised in any way shape or form compared to the Jetta.

    FACT: After a severe hailstorm... VW needs a paintjob while all Hondas in the same parkinglot are nearly unsalvagable!!

    I saw at least four broken down Jettas on my way to work this morning!! It must be a fact!! Eesh

    And PLEASE do not talk about "class leader"-- the very term is unquantifiable (any car maker can define a "class" in which their automobiles "lead")

    Class leader is what the Civic is consistently referred to as in just about any comparo I've ever read in recent years. I'm pretty sure the 2006 model will be no different.

    Like when Ford says they have the "best selling truck" (did you know they include the counts of ALL the rental and lease fleets that use Ford?)

    Irrelevant

    Or when GM says they have the "most dependable, longest lasting...blaa blaa" This is a case of GM defining the "class" in which they are leading.

    Irrelevant
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    You are correct that some of my "FACTS" may seem subjective especially when comparing 2006 -vs- 2006 models. However, we need to lean on historical data when comparing any automobiles. Any two NEW cars better be very nice indeed.

    I can compare 100s of cars in any Wallmart parking lot and visually see that RUST is prevalent on hondas while one has to find a VERY old VW to find any rust.

    As for my exhaust rusting out every 2 years... that was GENUINE HONDA exhaust in every case!!

    Any "comparo" of 2 NEW cars must also take into account the FUNDING for the writer of the comparison. These "comparos" can only be useful to tell the reader about perceptions of the editor. These perceptions are often tainted by who is paying the writer. I dont mind direct comparisons of vehicle features but anything beyond that should not be taken very seriously. Do you know if an editor emulates your personal tastes and desires in an automobile?

    Each person needs to make their own decision based on their own personal needs in a vehicle. These forums here at edmunds are useful if one can effectively weed out the useless fluff that we all tend to add to our appends.

    My hope is that other folks reading these appends can extract the facts that are meaningful to themselves to help them make a choice.

    On a personal note.... a totally reliable car is NOT my #1 need. I need a car that can handle at least 10 years of salt-laden winter roads without rusting beyond repair. I can FIX an occasional broken part... I CANNOT reliably fix a rusty car. The Hondas I have owned did not meet this requirement.
  • chidorochidoro Member Posts: 125
    As for my exhaust rusting out every 2 years... that was GENUINE HONDA exhaust in every case!!

    Holy cow!! You are telling me that was in every single case? Astounding, really. Unrealistic, unbelievable, but astounding nontheless. I think I dodged at least four or five GENUINE HONDA exhausts on my way to work this morning. Darn things just litter the road really

    Each person needs to make their own decision based on their own personal needs in a vehicle. These forums here at edmunds are useful if one can effectively weed out the useless fluff that we all tend to add to our appends.

    In all honesty, that's the only clip that made sense.

    There are Honda's that easily exceed your 10 year mark on "salt laden" roads. How can someone tell? Look at all of them on your way to work. 10, 12, 15 year old Hondas being used as daily drivers with their floors in tact.

    It's not too difficult to weed out fluff in someone's argument.

    I can FIX an occasional broken part...

    I seriously doubt that repairs on a perennial favorite for breakdowns requires such a flippant remark. I can be assured that I am likely to not call out at work due to car troubles moreso than I would if I owned a Jetta if historical data is to be used. If all of the Honda's disintegrated in 10 years, you wouldn't be seeing so many 10+ year old Hondas on the road... as a primary vehicle.
  • allhorizonallhorizon Member Posts: 483
    I have seen presidents and governators being elected at a 50% +-epsilon majority, just to end up with a 35% approval rating. I have seen SUVs and pick-up trucks outselling cars as "the family car". The majority elected Hitler, disallowed women to vote, prevented African-Americans from getting an education or marry me.

    Somehow, I have rarely felt comfortable with the majority.

    People are multidimensional. They have many different needs and wants. They look at numerous things when they go shopping. This is what keeps so many different products and manufacturers alive. I am so happy 1984 never materialized. I don't want to be told what I have to like.

    ...Yet, I am a very rational person who looks at consumer reports, edmunds, and many other resources. But, I build my decisions on the meaning of data, not on the perception of data.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Class leader is what the Civic is consistently referred to as in just about any comparo I've ever read in recent years. I'm pretty sure the 2006 model will be no different.

    Can I chime in here? Couldn't help but reply to this statement. The 2001-2005 Civic was the biggest also-ran Civic Honda has ever produced. Car and Driver called it a loser outright. The Mazda 3 and others blew away the 01-05' Civic. What comparo has the just replaced Civic ever won? I don't remember any. The sedan in particular was a big let-down compared to previous Civics.

    M
  • chidorochidoro Member Posts: 125
    We know you like the Mazda3, as well as your dislike for the Civic. It's been regurgitated ad nauseum elsewhere. That's great but this time it's on the incorrect forum.

    Sorry, it took 2nd place right here on Edmunds (out of seven) as a last model year in 2005 and first place in 2003 (out of eight). And even when it took second, "blown away" was certainly not used. Do you exggerate this much for everything you are passionate against? Also ran? My goodness, do you only read (or worse, remember) what you agree with?

    So there, you didn't remember at least one comparo. Astounding :surprise:
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