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Comments
It maybe the benchmark in the USA(Buick/Lincoln replacement), but outside the USA no serious person considers the LS a benchmark, not even in Japan itself. Also LS sales are higher in the USA mainly because they are priced lower than the competition from MB, Audi and BMW.
Is it mere coincidence that as Bill Gates got wealthier he bought new Porsches instead of a Lexus LS? It certainly is worth paying the extra bucks for real German performance!
This statement summarizes your ability to be judgemental in bogus manner; saying that a car will be able to compete without it even existing yet.
Also, check out the internet and find the difference between the used 2006 BMWs and the used 2006 ISs. I could not find a single used 2nd Gen. IS on the lots in Canada. I think that speaks for itself, no?
Try finding a used 06 Aztec? It will be difficult! Is it because the Aztec is a fantastic vehicle? I dont think so! Obviously it has something to do with its low sales volume levels.
Here is a quote from bdr, one of our posters:
If you put together both 325i and 330i with no AWD/coupe/conv/wagon, so we're only comparing "RWD sedans to RWD sedans", here's the tally:
BMW: 5257 (10305 YTD)
Lex: 3882 (7955 YTD)
Additionally what do sales really mean in terms of a vehicles prowess. Hyundia sells more cars than Ferrari, must mean Hyundia is a better car company, right?
At the end of day you and BMW’s fan might come back and say it does not matter because of my opinion or your opinion and tend to count on CR and JD power’s data right? (According your post) Fine go to this site and compare the 3-series and IS ..The IS is the only model which receives the highest rate (5 stars overall rating) in that segment hopefully, you will see that the people who called themselves “driving enthusiasts” are just a minority group whether they are Lexus’s fans or BMW’s fans
http://consumercenter.jdpower.com/cc/rd/cc/auto/compare.asp
Kinda let you know that they were not just my friend’s opinions regarding the “ultimate pain” frustration was the main reason. Once said having paid close $40K he never expected the car in that league would give him more headache than his wife’s civic
Hyundais are among the most reliable cars and some are even more reliable than Toyota/Lexus cars. And most Hondas are more reliable than Toyotas. So what??:P
If the BMW 3 series were as unreliable as a Jetta than there would be a problem. But they aren't. In fact as your site proves BMWs are reliable.
So my question is what exactly is your point?(also I will bet you my Hoover vacuum cleaner is more reliable than yours, but that does not mean that vacuum cleaning becomes a fun activity like driving, does it?)
Pros: nice interior, gobs of power, lexus quality.
Cons: lousy automatic transmission, super-diffuclt to order, sport package hard to find, numb steering, no roadfeel, understeers, intrusive traction control. Very expensive with sport package and xenons - about 40k. Maintenance over 3 years would cost about 2k.
e90 330i
Pros: Sublime handling, communicative roadfeel, great driving position, 6 speed, free maintenance, great price even loaded up (36k with leather, sport, pdc, comfort access).
Cons: Poor reliability. Low on power.
I pick up my decision in April at the BMW Delivery Center in Munich.
If you honestly believe that then it is beyond hope to convince you what is known by the majority of drivers who actually reviewed, test drove or owned a 3 series.
The fact is the IS is not a driver's car. It is an appliance like Lexus that provides great isolation from real driving. If that is what you define as much better then all I can say is to each his own.
Enjoy your Autobahn trip!
That is far from the truth according to most reviewers. It is almost sad how much you hate this car. Like I have said before, this car is just fine for the majority of people who drive like sane people 90% of the time.
When it comes to winter driving, the IS 350 with VDIM will easily out handle a 330i, I am sure. Also, when it comes to driving without the electro-nanny, it can be shutoff, albeit in 15 seconds as opposed to instaneously like it should be.
For the person who wants a sport sedan, but does not drive it in hard corners everyday to work, this is a great contender. For the person who wants a sport sedan to be their sport car, then I suppose they should look elsewhere because the VDIM would be too much for them to bear with, and that, I can understand.
Anyways, I gotta get back to work!!!
I cited the site that confirms Lexus IS is a BETTER overall car..that all what matters. Hope you get this. It wasn't based on your opinion, my opinion or initial reviews by some buyers/critics. It's JD Power Associates market research which has reputation for providing trusted data and unbiased studies.
No, that is the jist of almost every review save for one or two. That doesn't mean the IS is bad. It means in the "sports" driving dept it still has a way to go. The fact that some "reviews" may like the IS better, does not take away anything from the new 3 series prowess.
Yeah, but I can't find the section on how the car drives, without the test review the rest of the information is meaningless.
But hey! How do you all like the Alfa 166/e90 comparo?
:P
If you truly believe JDPA info is meaningless then there's no need to argue anymore :-)
It's meaningless to me. Since I don't consult it when buying a car, but if you use it...more power to you. It appears that JDP is sole information source you use when buying a car.... so I guess the arguement is over.
If you put together both 325i and 330i with no AWD/coupe/conv/wagon, so we're only comparing "RWD sedans to RWD sedans", here's the tally:
BMW: 5257 (10305 YTD)
Lex: 3882 (7955 YTD)
But you conveniently omitted the rest of that post....
3-Series: 9140 (17686 YTD)
Lexus IS: 3882 (7955 YTD)
325i ONLY: 3682 (7834 YTD)
(Lexus doesn't break down 250/350)
To simplify a little further maybe, I pointed out those numbers to show, in context, that RWD sedan to RWD sedan, the Lexus comes a little short of the BMW. I was showing dewey, IIRC, that basically, if the IS is considered a weak seller, in the vein of the Aztek, then the BMW is no better. However, we all know that the IS is selling. So, the reason for there not being any 2006 ISs on the used car lots is most definitely not because of weak sales. It must be because of something else. BMW fans, don't try and turn this into a reason why the BMW is better...
PS: There were no convertible or wagon variants in the search for a used e90 in Canada. Also, another funny tidbit. The reason why you are refuting what I am saying is that it is in some way important to you; otherwise, you wouldn't say a thing in rebuttal and would agree. The common action between people on the BMW 3 series end of things is to, when wrong, say that it doesn't matter to them anymore, or, that it never did!
I never said my purchasing decision is based solely on JDP or CR info...but it's an important factor that cannot be ignored. You need to use the brain to control your feeling sometimes
In truth Lexus cars drive okay, and that's where it ends. BMWs on the other hand are a different story.
It's no more idiotic than comparing IS vs 3 series sales without a whit of knowledge of the sales targets. Speaking of GS...it happens to be the only Lexus that I think they got more right than the rest of their product line. Even I was surprised as I liked the lines.
The IS drives very well, and very fast. (not just "okay"...an ES or LS drives "okay" but that's what they're designed to do) Sure, it's no surprise they haven't mastered handling like BMW has, but it's a lot more fun to drive than A4, G35, C class, etc etc. I love the interior and exterior styling too. I didn't base my decision on JD power or anything, I just drove them all. IF the IS wasn't around, I would have gotten the 330i no doubt.
Your little complex makes just about as much sense as i-Drive!
Also, after reading the rest of the posts on the page... fordandbmw: Drive the IS 350 (really, really drive it), then come back and post here and tell us about your experience.
It is funny that people who have never driven the IS 350 bash it, but in the same breathe would say that the G35, A4, C 350, or TL are better drivers' cars, when auto journalists have all loved the way the 330i drives (I acknowledge this as well) but also like the IS 350 (not as much as 330i) more than all the others I have mentioned.
I don't know. I am just used to not judging cars before I drive them that it shocks me when other people come here and "tell ya like it is", when all it is is a freakin' joke!
hey neko, which post are you talking about?
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V
You should be happy that our little market segment, in general, is doing so well!
But, there isn't, and the IS 350 wins!
I can justify it in any way I please. The interior also makes me so so happy.
A Wall Street Journal auto review confirms the majority of previous IS reviews ? What is the big deal here?
Being objective, factual and unbiased all I can say is look at what the majority of reviews have to say and combine that with the feelings you have with your own personal test drive and ask yourself: What car would I rather drive? And unsurprisingly the answer for most people is the BMW 3 series.
Let us not get into personal quarrels. Just take a few deep breaths and acknowledge the above facts and peace will be with you all(with the exception of some devoted IS fans). :shades:
'After years of trying, someone's made a car that conquers the Three'
January 26, 2006
Features
Pistols at dawn
Watch out BMW, the new Lexus IS is gunning for the 3-Series. And it's good... very good indeed
It's down to badge snobbery. No longer do you have to opt out of BMW 3-Series ownership armed with a caveat.
You don't need an excuse, any inter-pub conversational armour, because the new IS is the car that will make Lexus a force to be reckoned within the UK market.
Think about it; where the small Beemer has become a subdued and almost awkward design study, the Lexus has blossomed, thanks to the new 'L-Finesse' design language.
Where the old IS200 threatened to make inroads, the new car punches above its weight, only lacking the Pavlovian buying response from the general public that the 3-Series has long laid claim to.
'Where the old Lexus IS200 threatened to make inroads, the new car punches above its weight'
The BMW might have the edge in 10/10ths excitement, but I buy an executive saloon to drive every day and a car that is as near-as-dammit silent will pay dividends 99 per cent of the time. Standard kit is lavish, ride is exemplary and the execution of build superlative.
You could argue that the wheels are too small, there's no diesel option and that bits of it can look a little plump.
In answer, I'll point you towards the forthcoming Sport model riding on 18s, and the imminent release of the IS220d in the UK - a diesel engine more powerful than that in the BMW 320d.
As for the plump bit, get used to it - 'flame-surfacing' and 'new edge' are so last year. It's won a Top Gear award because, after years of trying, someone's made a car that conquers the Three, but not by apeing BMW values. It's gone its own way and it's a better car for it.
Speak for yourself, not "most people", unless, of course, the posters on this website don't matter to you.
Look what the majority of reviewers say and combine that with your own? Give me a break. I don't need to combine a single review into my opinion to make me feel better about my car choice; I read them for cheap entertainment.
I also drove them all and my list goes like this, driving dynamics is my number one priority:
330i-manual
G35 -manual
A4 - manual
TL - manual
IS-350
I would probably put IS after G35 if not for VDIM and maybe after 330 if not for auto tyranny.
Why?
Is it because our time is cheap and we can waste it by reading them or is it because they provide some insight beyond the limited test drives available in dealerships? My time is not cheap and I value the insight provided by other testers doing driving that I myself could not do at a dealership.(Toronto is under traffic patrol curfew 24 hours a day)
Having said that my own personal test drive prevails in choosing a car. But that does not mean every review is useless.
You should've asked ..what car would I rather buy? For that alone Lexus IS is a smarter choice
Also agreed by Top Gear :-) ..Sorry to bring this back
http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/2006/01/stories/21/1.html
"It's won a Top Gear award because, after years of trying, someone's made a car that conquers the Three, but not by apeing BMW values. It's gone its own way and it's a better car for it."
I am flattered that you take time to speak with me, dewey.
Ah, the joy of having the perimeter highway a stone's throw away from the Lexus dealership to rip the IS 350 around.
You didn't get to throw around the IS 350?
BTW, the picture of the Alfa 166 was shot in Yorkshire, Britain.