Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS



  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Car and Driver recorded 0-60 MPH for the IS350 in 5.1 seconds, well under Lexus' claims. next up the list were Acura TL and Infiniti G35 which tied at 5.9 sec. BMW was in the 6.0 second and up catergory. In the article (posted online) they don't list the BMW's time in the article but they do mention all the troubles they had with the NEW car, keyless start - not starting, ABS - they nearly spun the car 360 degrees b/c ABS just didn't work, Airbags - A warning light; luckily they didn't try this out!
    **NOTE - Test numbers are in the article's "box o' numbers", but I couldn't find the pertinent information in this little time I have.

    Also, remember, this test was done at temperatures over 110 degrees, a sub-5.0 sec number may have been reached by the lexus if temperatures were more moderate, around 70 degrees.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Also, remember, this test was done at temperatures over 110 degrees, a sub-5.0 sec number"

    The real number will likely be a sub-6.0 number. Time will tell. I don't believe C&Ds numbers myself, but I know a lot of people believe their numbers are gospel.
  • qaliqali Toronto CanadaPosts: 60
    Talking about speed (and nothing else)


    Lightning-quick Lexus

    Behind the big "L" in the grille sits a 306-horsepower monster. Without needing the forced induction of a turbocharger or supercharger, the free-breathing 3.5-liter V6 in the IS 350 is a model of linear power and smoothness. A 5.6-second sprint to 60 mph and a 13.9-second quarter-mile — digest that for a moment. That's as quick as a Mercedes-Benz C55 AMG and just dusts the 330i.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Why would they bother to lie about it? Because the magazine gets better numbers than Lexus claims, it must not be true? Shoot, Toyota's Avalon got a manufacturer claim of 6.6 sec, while Car and Driver pushed it to 6.0 sec even. Just because the numbers don't support one's particular case is no reason to discredit them without base.

    Here is a quote from Motor Trend: "The Lexus is a full second faster to 60 than the 330i and the 280hp G35. The six-speed auto is a worthy partner."
    -No editing in that quote. I promise.
    In that particular IS350, MT garnered 5.5 seconds to 60, meaning that Motor Trend only managed as quick as 6.5 sec for the 330i and G35. They also had a quarter mile in 14.0 sec at 99.8 MPH.

    They get their numbers from accelerating in the manner that gets the fastest time; different from just standing on the gas; they likely brake-torqued the Lexus.

    Consumer Reports accelerates as many consumers would = by just flooring the accelerator and shifting at redline (for manuals).

    Car and Driver, Motor Trend, etc... often shift past redline (in the Civic Si they shifted against the fuel cutoff at 8,500 RPMS rather than the 8,000 RPM redline.
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    "Yet Lexus apparantly thinks that 0-60 is so important to its buyers as to overstate its performance by a embarassingly large amount. What does that tell you about Lexus? about its target market?"

    What is more embarassing is that you don't realize that the IS 350 was rated by a 3rd party, called WARDS, and was given an official time, after thorough testing, of 5.3 seconds.

    "I think Lexus should take a course in modesty when it comes to tooting their own horn. Puffery doesn't make for a good heritage when it comes to performance cars, even if it does appeal to boy racers. Fortunately, my goddaughter isn't one."

    And neither does ignorance. I am not calling you ignorant, but you are, for a lack of a better set of words, "lacking balanced knowledge".
    End of story, no?!

    Boy racers, eh? Tell me how many "boy racers" can afford a $40,000 USD vehicle. You don't think that BMW appeals to the mass market too? If you don't, then....
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Why would they bother to lie about it? "

    They don't lie about it, the apply a proprietary algorithm that takes into account the altitude and weather. This means you usually don't the "real" number, and sometimes they don't even say where they tested.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    You probably didn't follow the initial conversation in Edmunds in 2002 with the introduction G35, but this will likely be the same type of thing. I invite you for your reading pleasure to peruse the comparos.
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    No kdshapiro, I didn't.

    I'll assume that you are at work now - as am I - so you don't have time to elaborate on what you had said, but I don't understand what you mean.

    So, what will be like the same thing? :P

    And which comparos?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Ok, I can admit I hadn't thought about that.

    It still doesn't take away from the fact that the Lexus I-S 350 is "a second quicker than the 330i". It just means that BOTH the numbers would have been subject to said algorithm. Nothing much changes between the two.

    I'm off to the beach. Have a good weekend guys...I'll be home Sunday night; maybe I'll pop in.
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    Have a good time.

    I am envious of you. I live in Winnipeg, and I have a lot of clients in California. All I hear about is the nice weather!

    It's freezing here!
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "A 5.6-second sprint to 60 mph and a 13.9-second quarter-mile — digest that for a moment. That's as quick as a Mercedes-Benz C55 AMG and just dusts the 330i."

    Whoa! Hold on there. I've driven the C55 and IS350 and they are completely night and day, not even remotely in the same league. And apparantly, Edmunds had a memory lapse. Here is the their quote from the review of the C55:

    "With the 0-to-60-mph dash coming in at around 4.5 seconds and a top speed that's electronically limited to 155 mph, those who need speed should be more than happy with the C55."

    C55 - look at powertrains and performance

    Perhaps our host can explain why the contradiction in statements by Edmunds, but anyone who has driven both cars would know how ridiculous the "as fast as a C55" statement is. That is equivalent to saying a 330i is as fast as an M3. :confuse:
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "What is more embarassing is that you don't realize that the IS 350 was rated by a 3rd party, called WARDS, and was given an official time, after thorough testing, of 5.3 seconds."

    Please provide a reference or link. I went to the WARDS site and was unable to find any road test results for any cars. I would be curious as to whether they have a consistent testing procedure. Thanks.
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    This is from the Lexus website:

    The IS 350 can achieve an astounding 0-60 acceleration time of 5.3 seconds [3]

    [3] AMCI-Certified acceleration testing, six-cylinder automatic sedans, Ward's Segmentation

    This is a quote from the AMCI website:


    AMCI's unique testing programs help the world's automakers better understand their customer, their competition and the marketplace. Our methods are so scientific and our results so reliable, they are literally the industry standard - and have made AMCI the official testing company for J.D. Power. In over 20 years, not one claim bearing our name has ever been retracted due to legal challenge.

    Our testing services begin with the objective Comparative Vehicle Assessment (CVA), during which a manufacture's car or truck is objectively analyzed alongside its competition. Superiorities uncovered during the CVA can then be turned into indisputable marketing advantages through Advertising Claim Certification, substantiated by AMCI's proprietary methodology.

    Advertising Claim Certification

    When you stake your brand's reputation on a competitive claim, it has to be true, and it has to be absolutely defensible. AMCI testing precision and methodology are backed by a track record of success stretchhing back over 20 years. In that time, we have certified hundreds of comparative claims for dozens of manufacturers - and not one has ever been retracted due to litigation. Should one of our claims be challenged, we offer turn-key counsel if legal action is ever taken regarding an AMCI-certified claim.

    And that's all folks!
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Perhaps our host can explain why the contradiction in statements by Edmunds

    Moi? I haven't a clue! :) Try the Contact Us page at the Help link on the left side of the page and ask them directly.

    Meanwhile, maybe we can ALL keep in mind what our subject is here?
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    I would say that my post is on topic right?

    I hope so.. After all that retyping the Macromedia text.. grumble, grumble.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I was just making a general statement to everyone on the topic thing - we've been wandering all over the seaside then to the mountains and back to the beaches here lately. ;)

    (Yah, I am sick to death of winter!!!)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I have more faith in C&D than AMCI. :confuse
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    5.1 seconds it is! :)
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,681
    I’ve finally figured out what displeases me about the IS.

    I refer to it, as the El Camino effect.

    I recently watched an old automobile review on the El Camino. This review had nothing but praises, particularly extolling its dual role; you gain the benefits of a truck as well as the benefits of an automobile.

    For me, that is, the IS is a contradiction. It competes in the sports sedan category

    Design: The design is not particularly breathtaking nor is it unattractive. It sacrifices rear seat room for style, but is no more attractive than a Scion tC. Certainly for a SEDAN an MB CLS would rank at the top; trumping both the IS and the 3. I have not checked the dimensions, but it appears this sedan should be classified as a coupe (or real close to one). I see nothing wrong with coupes, but an IS coupe with four doors would not be at the top of my list (G35 here). The 3 has a generous amount of room for a sedan; not for 5 girth challenged reality show wannabies, but for the average family I can see it performing the function of sedan admirably.

    Performance: The IS straight line performance is amazing; much quicker than I would have guessed. But if this is your cup of tea I see better alternatives…such as any of the SRT-8’s or even MB350. I’ve seen the 3 series win all of the comparisons other than the online resource that ranked it low because of cup holders and the turn signal. I don’t understand the rational to go with a RWD setup if you’re going to limit the vehicle with electronics (intrusive electronics that is) and an auto; might as well save dollars and just use the Camry setup.

    Luxury: The IS appears to be put together well. I prefer the interior design of the 3, but I can see why people like the IS. If I wanted luxury though, I’d go the MB350 route (it’s 0-60 5.5 is still respectable plus you can get a manual or 7 speed auto). I wouldn’t rate the IS or 3 series as luxurious, they both have luxurious amenities.

    Panache: Lexus has it according to some people (some not including myself), I didn’t see it on the old IS and don’t see it on the new one. Just today I was trailing a Jag S-type R and thought this car will be amazing in 15 years. I am one of the people that admit the BMW badge has an appeal, particularly because it has the car to back it up (talks the talk…walks the walk).

    I think the biggest thing for me is the useless rear seats, the pretending to be a sedan when you’re not…I mean if it’s not that important to have rear seats, a CPO’s Porsche Boxter S seems a better way to spend 40K+ of hard earned after tax dollars.

    I suppose to some the IS is the perfect blend of everything you would want; perhaps I’m just a pessimist (I tell you it is half empty!), but I cannot get past the El Camino.

    All in good fun of course :)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Might as well say the 330i is 5.6 seconds then.
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    "The design is not particularly breathtaking nor is it unattractive. It sacrifices rear seat room for style, but is no more attractive than a Scion tC. Certainly for a SEDAN an MB CLS would rank at the top"

    Many have said (European auto-journalists, for example 4Car) that the IS is now one of the most beautiful sedans on the road. To me, in person, it is more beautiful than the CLS. The IS, in motion, is pure poetry! :D:D:D

    link title

    Quote from the video: "Rarely will any of us come across a saloon car as plain attractive as the new IS 250. Just as BMW decided to let a blind madman design the new 3 series, and Audi grafted a chrome beard on to the once-pretty A4... handling and steering aren't far off the exceptional BMW."

    They, although call the interior "Japanese", and don't like the painted plastic, but probe the question - after mentioning BMW's projected sales numbers - wouldn't it be great to drive something not so ordinary (in comparison to BMW)?

    No better looking than a tC? Hrmm... :P

    Many have called the 3 series absolutely ugly!

    In terms of luxury, the IS outclasses the C. I have not driven the C, but I hear the IS outhandles it. The Edmunds review goes as far to say,"The manual transmission works well enough, but given our test car's reserved demeanor, we'd probably join the other 95 percent and go with an automatic-equipped C350". Also,"Nevertheless, the C350's cabin lacks the elegance of some peers. The metal-ringed gauges look modern, and most materials are quite nice, but there are a few cheap plastics in little-seen nooks."

    "The 3 has a generous amount of room for a sedan; not for 5 girth challenged reality show wannabies"

    IMO, the difference in sizes b/w the IS and 3 are neglible. You could not fit 5 normal sized adults comfortably in either car. The 3 series backseat is far from generous. If it is generous, then the IS backseat is commodious. When I went into the backseat of the e90 325i after driving it, my knees were pushing forward the back of the plastic seat, so I had to splay my knees apart. With the IS, I had to do the same thing, but at least they were touching leather not plastic. ;)

    Anyways, I'm out!.. for now. :)
  • potemkinpotemkin Posts: 196
    "In terms of luxury, the IS outclasses the C."

    No it doesn't.
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    Ahh. You bring up an interesting point.
  • vvhavvha Posts: 1
    OK kdshapiro I realize that you are a big BMW fan and that's fine. However in terms of engine performance the 330i really isn't in the same class as the IS350. The best data for this available comes from Edmunds' own comparo. These two cars were tested under the same conditions and the Lexus beat the BMW 5.6s vs 6.7s. By 75 mph the gap had widened to 8.1s vs 9.8s. Given the 1100ft elevation of the testing site there's no reason to doubt the IS350 could run the claimed timed of 5.3s 0-60 at sea level.
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    Lexus has yet again come up with a car that will seriously rattle BMW's cage. It makes the 3-Series look like a rip-off


    'After years of trying, someone's made a car that conquers the Three'

    January 26, 2006


    Pistols at dawn

    Watch out BMW, the new Lexus IS is gunning for the 3-Series. And it's good... very good indeed
    It's down to badge snobbery. No longer do you have to opt out of BMW 3-Series ownership armed with a caveat.

    You don't need an excuse, any inter-pub conversational armour, because the new IS is the car that will make Lexus a force to be reckoned within the UK market.

    Think about it; where the small Beemer has become a subdued and almost awkward design study, the Lexus has blossomed, thanks to the new 'L-Finesse' design language.

    Where the old IS200 threatened to make inroads, the new car punches above its weight, only lacking the Pavlovian buying response from the general public that the 3-Series has long laid claim to.


    'Where the old Lexus IS200 threatened to make inroads, the new car punches above its weight'
    The BMW might have the edge in 10/10ths excitement, but I buy an executive saloon to drive every day and a car that is as near-as-dammit silent will pay dividends 99 per cent of the time. Standard kit is lavish, ride is exemplary and the execution of build superlative.

    You could argue that the wheels are too small, there's no diesel option and that bits of it can look a little plump.

    In answer, I'll point you towards the forthcoming Sport model riding on 18s, and the imminent release of the IS220d in the UK - a diesel engine more powerful than that in the BMW 320d.

    As for the plump bit, get used to it - 'flame-surfacing' and 'new edge' are so last year. It's won a Top Gear award because, after years of trying, someone's made a car that conquers the Three, but not by apeing BMW values. It's gone its own way and it's a better car for it.

    Source: link title
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    Did my speed reading that article make me miss the point you raised about a BMW 3 series being a RIP OFF?

    It appears the reader of this article who interpreted the words RIP OFF is no different from a member in the "World is Flat Society" who interprets every everything he reads as supporting his notion that the earth is flat.

    Look beyond your false notions and acknowledge the following: BMW3 is the pedestal of perfection in terms of sport sedans and you then will finally see the TRUTH.
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    Heyyyy. I never said that the 3-Series was a rip-off! You have me all wrong! The dudes at TopGun think so, not me.

    You will find that on the main page for the IS 250 on the website, or on another road test of the IS 250 on the website; I forget which one, but I wanted to throw it out there for good measure.


    Note, that it is mentioned that the IS 250 is not as good of a driver's car in one of the reviews they make. See! I'm not biased! Don't shoot the messenger!

    But, WHOAH! Pedestal of perfection! Now that has me scratching my head. Why is there a sport model of the 3-Series if it is perfect to begin with? Why is there an M model if it is perfect to begin with? Dewey, you are way over the top on that statement, just as the TopGear writer was over the top calling the 3-Series an outright rip-off. In my opinion he is close to the truth, but a tad extreme. Close, but no cigar.
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    The less hardy marketeers have already sloped off down the pub to get slowly drunk and sing secret corporate karaoke songs about the good old days when Lexii were merely confidence-boosted Toyotas and BMW could sell you a bent piece of angle iron and we'd all pay extra for the rust.

    You can imagine it, because it's very hard not to be impressed with this new IS250. And very hard to imagine that when the early-adopter atmosphere of the noughties gets a handle on the whole anti-hero image thing, BMW is going to have to try much harder to sell you a car. And the chaps at Lexus are going to be very happy indeed.

    Tom Ford (TopGear)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Wow, what a comeback. You showed him.

    Would you mind elaborating? What does the C-series offer that the IS-350 is lacking? At what cost do these extra features come?

    I remember a particular Motor Trend Test of a C320 vs ES330 vs etc...

    The Mercedes cost $44,000+ and had only a cassette deck; no CD player or changer.
This discussion has been closed.