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BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS



  • Does anyone know where I can get a laser engraved plate for my BMW... I want to have it crystallized by the guys at
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    This is the wrong forum for that type of question; this is not a BMW parts forum.

    I am sure with a little digging you can find a BMW parts forum.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    What model BMW do you have?

    You can find dedicated BMW discussions on any model by using the make/model search on the left. It would be better to ask in one of those than in a discussion whose specific purpose is as a comparo.

    Drop me an email if you need more help finding the best place for your questions - pat AT

  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    No, binny, I am not. That could however have been my cousin.

    There aren't many Gillers out there, but we both share the same name.

    He now lives in Boston.

    What is the OCA? Ontario Chiropractic Association?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The Highlander and the RX series ARE both Camry-based cars, aren't they? They are both so similar in size and share engines, transmissions, and hybrid powertrains, so I guess I assumed that all along.
  • digital_bdigital_b Posts: 129
    you are correct but dont ever say that to a lexus service advisor as I once did. they REALLY dont like that.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    With all due respect, as you seem to have owned two of the best sports cars built over the last 20 years, comparing a S2000 and Supra is not fair, with engines, weight, drivetrains, chassis, demographics, competition, emissions that have nothing in common.

    Comparing a S2000 to a Supra Turbo is like comparing a Miata to an M3 Convertible. It's apples and oranges,

    As far as I know, the S2000 is the best convertible sports car thia side of a $50k 'Vette.

    The 1993 Supra Turbo (Started at $37,995) WAS A JAPANESE 'VETTE! It was the best sports car of it's time, better than ZR-1, outhandled RX-7, overpowered 300ZX, better value than NSX, and could beat them all in lap times on any track, as has been borne out in many magazine comparisons.

    Someone said Toyota didn't make the chassis strong enough to handle 300+ HP and a MT? Stop trollin'!

    MOST Supras still on the road have been heavily modified, with 500+HP (up to 900+) with the stock tranny! Clutch upgraded.

    Toyota CAN DO anything. They have nothing to prove. They already built the best sports car.

    Question is what will they do next?

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    So what? They aren't street legal. Subaru also has a modified WRX 2.5 that produces 425 hp and torque. This isn't about what was...this is about what is and what makes a sports sedan. Realizing people have differing opinions of sports sedaness.

    "Toyota CAN DO anything"

    So can BMW and they've already done it, you just have to pay for it. There's something called core competency. Stray too far and you end up like GM. BMWs core competency is entry level and luxury level sports sedans. Toyotas core competency is applicances and luxury sedans.

    HP isn't everything cause you can never win the war. At the end of the day you have to decide what is most important.
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602

    " Someone said Toyota didn't make the chassis strong enough to handle 300+ HP and a MT? Stop trollin'!"

    This comment was not about the TT Supra, but about the IS 350 with 306 hp. The poster said that the VDIM was there because the chassis cannot handle the hp.

    Now DrFill, Ready! Set! Go!

  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    If Toyota can make a chassis that can handle 900+HP on the street, using stock internals, why would theie chassis' struggle with a 300HP engine in their luxury marque? Doesn't add up.

    The Supra chassis proves that Toyota can build as great a sports car as they desire to make. The Supra was the best, period.

    Toyota doesn't like sports cars anymore, probably because they spent a ton making the Supra the best, and it was too expensive, and was ahead of Toyota's growth curve.

    With Toyota's growth since '93, the Supra would be much better recieved now, if they keep the price near 350Z.

    350Z sells 40k a year, and isn't half the car the 1993 Supra was!

    Right car, wrong timing.

  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    I understand yours, DrFill, maybe you misunderstood mine.


    What I mean, is that the fact that a company like Toyota can create a TT Supra with a stiff chassis has nothing to do really with whether they decided to implement it or not in the IS 350.

    Personally, I believe that they did implement their engineering skills into that chassis! The part that I am struggling with is people with zero knowledge saying that because there is no mainstream off-switch, it simply, in their words, means that the chassis cannot handle the torsion.

    Bogus, Right?

    Just for fun, how do you guys think this looks?

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,681
    Just for fun, how do you guys think this looks?

    Not bad...but not as good as a G35 coupe.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    It looks like a mix between a G35 coupe and a 330i sedan!
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    You think so? Seven years ago (at 40) she ran the Marine Corp. Marathon 5 months after a C-section and beat the time she last ran it at the age of 25. Last year, she beat that time at the Boston Marathon. Driving a manual transmission may be a challenge for you (and/or your wife if you have one), but it is hardly something my wife would consider a badge of accomplishment. It's a personal preference based upon REAL experience. So keep your inexperienced BS speculation to yourself.

    Thank you for further proving my point with more of your bragging. BTW, I did not now the Marine Corp Commandant was a 40-yr old woman seven years ago. I'm sure she really appreciates a husband that stands up for her "BS speculating" another person's experience.

    You have ir-rationalized every reason in the world why we should all be driving automatic transmissions.

    Never said everyone should be driving an automatic . . . merely pointing out the obvious that manual is not a prequalifier for anything . . . nor is it even correlated to sportiness, as your manual Trooper amply proved.

    So I have to agree, the electronic nanny-ized, slushbox IS350 was made just for you

    In case you did not realize, BMW has been at the forefront of pushing electronic nannies for over a decade, since the days of the first AST-C and DSC. Having seen many BMW's running off the road here in the snow belt, I think BMW was very astute to be at the forefront of making safer cars.

    But be forewarned, if you ever grow up and get bored of stomping your foot on the gas and want to actually learn how to really drive a "sports sedan", don't apply to Skip Barber driving school. They don't teach on automatics. Take it up with them as to why

    What the heck does Skp Barber have to do with sports sedans anyway? Most of their halo cars are sport coupes. Sedans are compromise choices to begin with. So why is your rational necessarily superior to mine? Considering that some 80-90% of all sport sedans are purchased with automatics, and with electronic nannies since circa 1996, when BMW introduced DSC . . . and probably less than 0.1% of all sports sedan buyers ever went to Skip Barber school of whatever, sports sedans, Lexus or BMW, are more made for guys like me than you, just to borrow some of your obnoxiousness. Of course, personally, I don't mind your personal pursuit of pure sports car experience in pseudo-luxury sports sedans; your money, your business. Just don't lable the other 80-90% of the sports sedan market "inexprience, inability or . . . lazyness"
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Posts: 767
    Can you say "over-compensating"?

    That's funny... I thought that's what you'd call guys who own over the top sport cars. :D

    In any case, saw the new IS350 at the dealer while waiting for 60K service. It's a handsome vehicle inside and out. However, I would never buy this car with MT even if the option were available. Toronto traffic is just too ugly for it, unless one takes public transportations during those rush hours... ;)
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    I have always driven manual while living and working in downtown Toronto. Personally I would rather read a newspaper or book in the subway than drive any car(AT or MT) during rush hour.
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    You must not drive a Lexus then I guess!

  • rats13rats13 Posts: 42
    Does anyone else find it curious that Consumer Reports give the IS 250/350 an above average reliability and recommended and the BMW 3 Series gets a n/a reliability rating because it's a "new model." Last I checked they were both new cars AND prior 3 series were getting good reliability ratings too.

    Seems unfair to me
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Posts: 767
    I used to live down town Toronto too. The traffic there is is bad even on weekends. Grocery shopping trips on Saturday could take up to 20 minutes to cover the approx 2km distance from home to the super market.
    Back to the topic, when I was shopping for my GS, I looked at BMW 3/5 series and Lexus IS/GS, one of the things that turned me off from BMW is the cost to insure the vehicle. A 328 was about $500/yr more to insure than the GS430. I bought the GS because it has more power with a much nicer interior than the IS300; it would have been a no brainer if the IS350 were available.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    Does anyone else find it curious that Consumer Reports give the IS 250/350 an above average reliability and recommended and the BMW 3 Series gets a n/a reliability rating because it's a "new model." Last I checked they were both new cars AND prior 3 series were getting good reliability ratings too.

    CR's Japanese bias... ;)
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    Not as strange as using braking test results from a different model generation BMW 3 series in a comparison test.

    Maybe they haven't had experience with the e90 yet.

    I didn't know that '3' buyer's care about reliability and CR anyways..
  • rats13rats13 Posts: 42
    Well they've had no experience with the IS350 either. It does seem bias that the BMW is dubbed inconclusive because it is a new model and the Lexus is recommended better than average on its new models.

    And Yes I am a "3 buyer" and I DO care about reliability of my next car. Maybe that just me. :confuse:
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    And I bet you do. Sorry, I was just having a little fun.

    I agree, it does sound strange, but I don't know if it has anything to do with bias; bias would be rating it poorly. If it doesn't have a rating yet, I would say that they didn't make a deadline for finding it out before the data had to be published in the report; that's what I think had happened.

    I would like the 3 a whole lot more if I didn't like the IS so much.

  • rats13rats13 Posts: 42
    No worries. I think CR gives Lexus the benefit of the doubt on new models based on the history of their other models which I understand but still is kinda unfair.

    I would like the IS a whole lot more if the fricking interior wasn't so small :cry:
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    Family eh?

    I think the IS interior is perfectly cozy. It gives me a nice, warm, fuzzy feeling all over. :) I'm happy that I am so young.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Posts: 351
    "I think the IS interior is perfectly cozy"... if you are built like a Hobbit ;)
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    Haha... ugh... or, if you don't have a family and don't need to chauffeur people...
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    What doesn't add up is over 300HP engine with nany that will not allow you to use 250 of them and no MT. Why would they limit such a fine engine with a nany, may be you have a better answer. Like I said IS chassis and suspension can not handle the power. I'm not talking about Toyota in general, they are more then capable to build a first grade everything. Forget 10 years old Supra, Toyota builds chassis for F1. All that though have nothing to do with IS.

    Majority of vehicles on the road today have traction and/or stability control systems but the one in IS is the most intrusive in this segment , by far. BMW also have a nany but you can almost push the car to the limit before it would interfere, plus you can shut it off.
  • Before my goddaughter elected to get an M3 over the 330i and IS350, she commented that the IS350 wasn't that noticably quicker than the 330i 6-speed. That seemed to contradict what the Lexus proponents here would claim.

    I had a few minutes between meetings yesterday, so I stopped into a Borders Books and picked up a current copy of Road and Track. From their "Road Test Summary", some interesting 0-60 stats:

    330i: 6.4 sec (vs. BMW claim of 6.5)
    IS350: 6.0 sec (vs. Lexus claim of 5.5?)
    545i: 5.3 sec (vs. BMW claim of 5.6)
    M3: 4.8 sec (vs. BMW claim of 4.9)
    M5: 4.1 sec (vs. BMW claim of 4.5)
    911S: 3.9 sec (vs. Porsche claim of 4.6)

    As you can see from above, in the hands of the same road testers, all of the BMW's match or significantly beat the manufacturers claims. The Porsche is in boni-fide super car territory compared to it's relatively modest claim. Only the Lexus falls well short. Given that it (claims) to have 51 hp more than the 330i and only 27 less than the M3, it is the clear underachiever of the group.

    What I think is particularly funny, is that high end BMW's and Porsches are generally not bought by boy racer kids that are looking at 0-60 as the holy grail. I'm not even sure of what that stat is for my 2003 M5. Yet Lexus apparantly thinks that 0-60 is so important to its buyers as to overstate its performance by a embarassingly large amount. What does that tell you about Lexus? about its target market?

    I suspect that somewhere out there, some road test was done that supports Lexus claim. But after checking out every magazine on the rack, I didn't find it. And the slowest times I found for the 330i was 6.4 (and for the 911S was 4.4).

    I think Lexus should take a course in modesty when it comes to tooting their own horn. Puffery doesn't make for a good heritage when it comes to performance cars, even if it does appeal to boy racers. Fortunately, my goddaughter isn't one.
  • C&D were biased BMW's way in their shoot out. The E90 electrics failed on them several times but they still gave it top spot. CR observed the electrics as a weak spot in their reliability ratings.
This discussion has been closed.