BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS

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Comments

  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    One might have extra fun with BMW but you just never know when it's going break down (this bothers me greatly).

    Please tell me when because I had mine for almost eight years and I am still waiting for it to break down.

    My experience is confirmed by CR and JD Power. The stats do not reveal the 3 series as unreliable.

    I certainly hope you are not deprieving yourself of a Bimmer merely because of your irrational fears? That would be a tragedy indeed. :cry:
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    Your model that you are driving is considered having very, very good reliability. The BMW you drive is different from the current ones, right?
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "Quality is still a luxury thing for the so called "most vote"

    I agree, the E90 is a quality machine. Saying otherwise is just an opinion, not backed by any facts. Somehow the E90 is good seller, based on what was just posted I would somehow venture a guess most people believe they are getting quality for their money. :)
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    The BMW you drive is different from the current ones, right?

    Yeah, and do you have information that the e90 is more unreliable than the e46?
  • neko608neko608 Member Posts: 58
    (Coming from an IS350 owner/obsessee)

    I think what brings BMW down overall in the reliability is the 7 series, Z4, X5, and X3. I could be wrong but I think the 3 and 5 are pretty solid cars.

    Reliability really wasn't a huge issue in my decision, I really liked both cars. I just felt the Lexus was right for me.
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    No, I was stating the obvious. Your model of 3 series seems to be more solidly built and quite a consistent performer, however the e90 is hit/miss. Care to argue my last post directed to you or should I take your silence as your way of agreeing?
  • lexus_jnlexus_jn Member Posts: 102
    As mentioned in one of the previous posts , three friends that I've known since HS all had major issues with their BMWs. However, they are not the only ones who voiced the frustration ..other colleagues that I don'
    t know well also showed their concerns regarding the BMW ownership experience.

    Many here in this forum also read some new 3-series feedbacks written by BMW owners. I found them very CONVINCING because those are quite similar problems encountered by my friends.

    Irrational fears? perhaps not...I just find it's not worth to pay close to $40,000 for a model that has so simple interior yet boring exterior and uncertain reliability
  • lexus_jnlexus_jn Member Posts: 102
    That was a feedback to dewey which means to say Europeans in general are not as wealthy as North Americans to choose a luxury brand (not a particular model) when there is a choice between quality and tradition. :P
  • lexus_jnlexus_jn Member Posts: 102
    "I think what brings BMW down overall in the reliability is the 7 series, Z4, X5, and X3. I could be wrong but I think the 3 and 5 are pretty solid cars."

    Neko,

    According to the CR's reports from 2004-2006, 5 series and 7-series are the least reliable. The 3-series is a hit/miss model just like Mike stated..

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/2004-11-08-reliable-cars.htm

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8489200
  • texasmerqtexasmerq Member Posts: 86
    I can respect everyone's opinion's to an extent and no one really has to justify to anyone why they bought their car. As for reliabilty concerns than I would take them all with a grain of salt because every manufacturer has them from Acura all the way to Volkswagon. I think every will agree that reliability plays some part in choosing a vehicle but BMW isn't as reliable as you think and Lexus isn't as bulletproof as you think. Both of these cars are all new models and there is going to be some problems. BMW in general has a longer history of problems across the brand than Lexus but that doesn't mean that the Lexus that everyone buys will be trouble free. In retrospect there are a lot more BMW out there and the average BMW owner runs their car much harder than the average Lexus owner. That plays a factor as well. I understand if someone is hesitant to buy any manufacturer based on personal experiences but for every bad BMW review I see about 10 good ones which says a lot.

    For anyone who read my orignal review on the IS, I still feel although the 2 cars are in the same price range they serve 2 totally different purposes and for that reason I think Lexus missed the mark. I think the IS will canabize sales mostly from the ES, MB C-class, Audi A4, Acura TL/ TSX and those who could live with a smaller car. Most people looking for a BMW won't be affected by this car as the only real competition is still the G35. BMW is for the sporting crowd and the interior and exterior in general of the 3 series appeals more to that crowd. That's not saying that the IS isn't nice but it has more of a luxury focus than sport. That doesn't make it a bad car but it doesn't scream sports sedan either. IMO the old IS was a step in the right direction and the only Lexus that I even liked. The new one is nicer as far as features go and is better on paper from a statistical standpoint but it lacks character that the IS300 had IMO. I won't even comment much on the IS250 but let's just say it should have never happened in a non-diesel trim. There should have been an IS300 and an IS350.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "...I just find it's not worth to pay close to $40,000 for a model that has so simple interior yet boring exterior and uncertain reliability"

    Understood, but I don't know what uncertain reliability. The people I know who have BMW have rock solid vehicles. BMW understands their customers value a functional (which you call boring), high quality interior.

    I think Lexus interiors are overdone. As texasmerg stated they are not as bullet-proof as you you make them out to be. Yes in the ratings game Lexus rates higher overall than BMW, but neither will leave you stranded.

    BTW with all this uncertainty about the future you probably don't invest since it's not a guarantee. :)
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    "BTW with all this uncertainty about the future you probably don't invest since it's not a guarantee."

    Key word is INVEST. A car is not an investment. Obviously you know this. I suppose all Lexus buyers cannot be investors then.(?)

    :confuse:
  • neko608neko608 Member Posts: 58
    yeah that's a pretty stupid acusation. I know a couple with huge portfolios and they each drive a CR-V!
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    Whoa! :surprise:

    All this bench racing and mud slinging is almost as intense as the old Camaro vs. Mustang discussions all over the 'net. :P
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    Funny you brought that up. One as well that I know drives a CR-V! My father drives a 4-cylinder Camry as well.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Funny you brought that up, I know some people with huge portfolios and they drive expensive German cars. Hmmm I wonder where this conversation is going?
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Funny you brought that up, but the key to choosing the right sport sedan is not affluence or lack of affluence but being educated and informed enough to choose the right sport sedan like the 3 series.

    The informed ones that lack money usually get a used BMW 3 series. And that makes a lot of sense. The uninformed ones usually choose 3 series alternatives like the IS. And the ones who are uninformed and lack money usually choose used 3 series alternative

    That is why in the sport sedan market there will alway be sales of the IS (new and used) :P
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    I know some too and they drive expensive Japanese cars!

    I guess it means your comment regarding another posters financial intelligence was somewhat uncalled for?
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    "The uninformed ones usually choose 3 series alternatives like the IS."

    Ugh. :confuse:

    Good thing you are an accountant and not a lawyer.

    I took your silence to my previous lengthy post as I should have; you agree with me. :blush:

    EDIT: I suppose that you are so bored that you deliberately make contraversial comments to stir the pot. I can make assumptions too!
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I am an accountant by profession but currently I am in the investment industry(as an accountant I would not find enough time to be here in these forums, especially during tax season).

    Your attack on KdShapiro was completely uncalled for.

    His investment analogy is quite insightful. People expect higher returns when there is more risk.

    People who buy the 3 series have higher expected returns than those of IS buyers. But BMW owners' expected reliability risk is somewhat higher than what is expected among IS owners(although not by much if based on CR and JD Powers results and most important of all my own satisfactory 3 series ownership experiences)

    Mike, you seem to be quite busy yourself??
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I was actually trying to understand what one expects if the highest priority is reliability.
  • lexus_jnlexus_jn Member Posts: 102
    "being educated and informed enough to choose the right sport sedan like the 3 series"

    That's s a bogus statement ...an informed one would choose the sport sedan which offers solid QUALITY and a great blend of LUXURY and PERFORMANCE....it's a complete package that you can only find in an IS not 3-series.

    Being educated & informed?? Thanks for a chuckle :-)
  • potemkinpotemkin Member Posts: 195
    "...it's a complete package that you can only find in an IS not 3-series."

    You forgot to add: IMHO.

    P.S.: The old IS300 was a better car than the new IS.
  • lexus_jnlexus_jn Member Posts: 102
    "P.S.: The old IS300 was a better car than the new IS. "

    Is it "IMHO" too ? :P
  • lexus_jnlexus_jn Member Posts: 102
    "Yes in the ratings game Lexus rates higher overall than BMW, but neither will leave you stranded"

    Not all but a certain # of BMWs will get you stranded or having mechanical/electronics issue. I've seen and read enough stories from the BMW owners & ppl that I know.
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    Attack? I hardly would consider defending another poster's integrity an attack.

    Some people expect higher returns when high risk is involved, however there are ways to program systems with advanced language programing software for making systematic investments. There is risk, but not as much as one would expect.

    I would hardly call that piece of information "insightful", but rather, "inciteful". There is a difference.

    When, or if I get an IS, I am expecting a hell of a lot more than a 330i. I have compared both. Sorry to say it, but your generalizations aren't even valid generalizations, but your own opinion that all 3 Series buyers share the same mindset as yours; like there are little dewey clones driving around everywhere. Not saying there are not people like you, but just stating that your generalizations are uncalled for.

    I am busy. :) I am at work right now eating lunch at my office and when I post - aside from lunch - that is in between doing work. Don't worry about me though, I am doing just fine. My passions: Cars, work, and debate! :mad:
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Let's drop the speculation on other people's financial smarts, okay? In fact, let's drop the speculation on intelligence and education altogether. It's got nothing to do with the subject.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    A certain number of Lexus' will also leave you stranded, but so what? Nobody needs a crystal ball to know anything that is made by man is not infallible.
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    We are such a dysfunctional family!

    PS: I agree.
  • texasmerqtexasmerq Member Posts: 86
    "P.S.: The old IS300 was a better car than the new IS. "

    Is it "IMHO" too ?

    The new IS may be a better car as it's still new and unproven, but the IS300 was definately a better sports sedan. That isn't debatable in any way really. It had a sporting nature and Lexus was on the right path towards making a 3 series beater. It offered nearly all the performance of the 330i(e46) and a price comparable to the 325i. Although I still saw a lot of 325i on the road at the time at least the IS300 was an reasonable alternative. I can't say that about the IS250 and to an extent the IS350 either, although the latter is a very good car. The IS350 has unquestionably the best straightline performance in this price range but like it or not the car is soft and not what most people who want a sports sedan want. I think we could argue all day and no one will agree to disagree it seems, but the new IS appeals more to people who will compromise ammenities for driving enthsiasm. That part is a fact and the points that kdshpiro, as well as dewey and many others, are conveying. They care about the driving dynamics and that's what makes the 3 series the best sports sedan. IS prospective buyers care about comfort, ammenities, luxury, and maybe occassionally smoking someone in a stoplight drag race. That makes the IS a better car for them. I personally am somewhat in the middle. I do care about some ammenities, but after driving both I would still take an automatic/ sequential manual 3 series over an IS350 (which says a lot) simply because it would be a daily driver and I live in the 4th largest city in America and I still care more about steering feel than what the IS offers me. I also feel that anyone who can use a computer and not learb iDrive isn't being truthful about somethings. That's another conversation though.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    like there are little dewey clones driving around everywhere

    The automotive world would be perfect if those dewey clones were not so little.

    Any way everything I said so far today was just all tongue in cheek contributions.

    I will re-attend this forum when I have something really significant to say---maybe I will take the IS for another test drive? In fact maybe not :P
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    Oh dewey, I forgive you! :blush:

    One day, we shall race! Your pick of racetrack.

    :P
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    I would like to know why you need to go through 3 different menus to get to audio volume though! :lemon:
  • neko608neko608 Member Posts: 58
    well it's good to see Dewey is once again insulting the intelligence of Lexus owners.

    Anywho, I think this has been mentioned before, but there are only 2 true 100% honest-to-goodness sport sedans on the market, and they belong to Subaru and Mitsubishi. Everything else we discuss are some mix of sport and luxury.

    Would anyone like to argue that a 330i is "sportier" than an STi or an Evo???
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "Would anyone like to argue that a 330i is "sportier" than an STi or an Evo??? "

    That is not this discussion. This discussion is entry level luxury sports sedans. The Sti or Evo does not have a modicum of the luxury features found on either of these two sedans.

    "well it's good to see..."

    Probably better off if one sticks to throwing barbs at the cars rather than fellow posters.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    The STi is to the Subaru Impreza as the M3 is to the 3-Series. I would argue that the M3, especially in upcoming 400HP form, will uphold the "sportier" mantra nicely for BMW.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    To everyone - we aren't here to talk about other members, nor are we here to talk about any cars other than the IS line and the 3-Series.

    I really need some cooperation on this ....
  • suave_tequilasuave_tequila Member Posts: 116
    Hey Pat,
    Why not start a chat room like Mazda has one every Tues and Wed! That would be nice!

    Suave Tequila :)
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We have one every month on the third Wednesday of each month. Unfortunately, that was last Wednesday so it looks like the next one won't happen until April 18.

    That's a good idea and something everyone can keep in mind. Here's a link to it: http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

    On the day of the chat, there's an hh:mm countdown until the chat room opens on the left sidebar. You can get to the chat from that countdown.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    Why doesn't Edmunds have a permanent chat? Why only once per month? Why so late in the day?
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    I would like to know why you need to go through 3 different menus to get to audio volume though!

    The audio volume is controlled by the knob right on the dash.
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    Really? I suppose it is a different setup than the 5 or 7 then? I am not too familiar with iDrive but have heard some terrible things about its quirkiness.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I don't know. You can go to the Help link on the left side of the page and then the Contact Us tab and ask.

    Well, I do know why they are so "late" - that's to try to have it at a reasonable time for all US time zones.

    But yes, that's late for me, also.

    Anyway, let's get back on topic here. Other comments can be addressed via that Help link or email.

    Thanks!
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    Really? I suppose it is a different setup than the 5 or 7 then?

    Nope, any car with iDrive has the volume knob right on the dash.

    I am not too familiar with iDrive but have heard some terrible things about its quirkiness.

    That is the biggest problem with iDrive.... People just hear stuff about it, yet they've never used it.

    Someone here said it recently, but I'll say it again.... If you know how to use a computer, iDrive is a piece of cake. Granted, the 2002-2003 7-Series version was dreadful, but the last couple years it has just gotten very easy and user-friendly.

    I feel like anyone at this point that crucifies iDrive has either never used it and is going off of what other people say, or they turned the knob for 10 seconds and got out of the car.
  • texasmerqtexasmerq Member Posts: 86
    Those are the exact type of things I mean. Even if it's not tremendously easy for everyone at first, if you continue to use it then it will become so. The difference in purchasing a car long term v. a car review that has the car for a day or even a few days is that you learn the car. It's the same way that someone who drives the IS350 the first time might hate the steering but after daily use it will become second nature for them if you will. That would explain why IS owners don't understand what most BMW drivers or prospective drivers mean byt the 3 series handling much better. It's one of the few cars that just feels right right away. That same person may find the 3 series steering heavy and the ride "harsh" as well.It's all a part of prefernce I guess and that's what this topic will be debated to the end. Person A will always like apples while Person be will prefer oranges. Pick what you like and love it.
  • lexus_jnlexus_jn Member Posts: 102
    IS seems to do well not just only in US. Its residuals are even higher than that of BMW and Audi...

    http://www.carpages.co.uk/lexus/lexus-is-16-03-06.asp
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    If you read the article that's not what it says. These people must have a crystal ball, maybe here in the US we should ask them for financial advice.

    Unlike ALG, which tells you what they are currently, these people are trying to predict what they will be. That smacks of Lexus advertising dollars...er pounds. :)

    Check this out, and this is in the good 'ol US of A:

    http://www.alg.com/awards.aspx
  • neko608neko608 Member Posts: 58
    How can Land Rover be third?!

    I'd rather get a sharp stick in the eye than get a used Land Rover. Ugh.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Me too, but that's another conversation.
  • neko608neko608 Member Posts: 58
    True but it should not even be mentioned in the same breath than our faboulous Lexis and Bimmers!
This discussion has been closed.

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