BMW 3-Series Run Flat Tires

nkeen

Very interested to read about your driving experiences in the UK -- although the surfaces are often coarser (hot rolled tar, which is excellent in rain) there's an absence of neglected expansion joints and potholes over there which cause the bulk of harshness issues over here, I think. I would imagine the 520D works well on UK roads -- plenty of torque for measured A road driving without constant shifting. Is the 320D a manual?

Mid and North Wales, and the Peak District of Derbyshire have some good driving roads -- 60 mph limit, narrow, frequent camber changes, tight turns to keep you on your toes. Speed limits can be confusing at first in the UK -- 70 motorway, 70 divided road, 60 undivided road of any width, 30 anywhere if there are regularly spaced street lights (within ? yards of each other I think) unless otherwise posted. A white circle with a black slash through it means the default national limits apply (70/70/60 as above). You'll always see an initial sign, followed by small repeaters, except for 30 limit roads with street lights and national limit roads without, where you'll just see the initial transition sign. There is increasing use of 20 limits in cities now. Watch the speed cameras, which are supposed to be accompanied by visible warnings. Let's see how the Michelin's do.

...and I see you've been over there for some time, so probably are familiar with all this already.

jerrycook

I have a 2006 BMW 325i that I purchased new in Feb on this year. I already have 10,000 miles on it. Just got my first flat with the right rear tire. But, really have not noticed any wear probles at all. There is some road noise however, and has been since day one. OH, did contact the service manager at BMW in Bel Air.. and he said that BMW will replace the tires at their cost if there are problems and there are less than 10,000 miles, and at 50% if there are less than 20,000 miles. There is a specific list of "problems" that qualify for the repalcement, but have not seen it.

Jerry

circlew

Do you have Bridgestone EL-42 tires?

Regards,
OW

jerrycook

Yes, I have the Bridgestones. not looking forward to paying all the bucks to have the damaged one replaced with only 10000 miles on it.

circlew

Go for the 50% now and get the Continentals. Think of it as insurance for the inevitable.

Regards,
OW

jerryf2

Although many strongly recommend the ContiPro over the el42 rft's, no one has mentioned that the ContiPro tramlines less than the el42. Tramlining on grooved concrete California freeways is the main issue I have.

circlew

The Conti's tramline less than the EL-42's. If I need to replace before my lease is over, The Conti's will be the choice. I will be glad to pass some real good rubber to the next owner of my leased car. This tire performes real close to GFT tires.

So far, 9,000 miles, one rotation at 5,000 miles, wear is very even on all 4 tires. Rotation is front to back on both sides. Next rotation will be switched back to original positions when new tires were mounted at 13K on the odometer. (so at 23K)

Tires look to go at least 30K.

These tires are quiet, grip great and track very well for All-Season fare.

Regards,
OW

nkeen

There's been quite a lot written here about the heavier weight of runflats and the affect of that additional weight on handling. To put that in context, the weight difference between the runflat and GFT RE050A is 28 v 25 lbs front and 30 v 27 lbs rear (per Tirerack stats). Add the weight of the rims, and three pounds per corner is more weight, but not much more. Perhaps the references to additional weight pertain more to the Michelin PAXs on the Honda minivan that use special wheel technology (with an inner raised band to support the collapsed tire) rather than the Bridgestones on the BMW. Also, note that 12 lbs total increase in weight is considerably less than the weight of a full spare and supporting hardware.

designman

Also, note that 12 lbs total increase in weight is considerably less than the weight of a full spare and supporting hardware.

But that's unsprung weight. In addition to inconsistent damping and stiffness from the tires it counts for something. How much I don't know but considerable efforts go into reducing unsprung weight in performance circles and manufacturing... lightweight wheels, tires, brakes and suspension components.

shipo

nkeen and designman, you are both correct.

The Honda PAX system carries a HUGE weight penalty (something like 25 pounds per tire over the same tires mounted on other Odysseys) as they weigh in at about 75 pounds per tire and wheel assembly!

While the weight difference between the wheel and tire assemblies on a 335i non-SP and what it would be if the car came shod with GFTs is truly only about 12 pounds, those 12 pounds are outside of the sprung body of the car and as such greatly exaggerate the seemingly insignificant 3 pounds per wheel. FWIW, on the 335i SP, the Bridgestone GFT rear tires actually weigh one pound more than the RFTs. Odd. That said, the GFTs from other manufacturers in the proper size weigh between two and four pounds less than either version of the Bridgestones.

What also is missing in this discussion is the fact that the 335i has rather low profile tires and as such, the differences between GFTs and RFTs will be minimized (maybe why many folks consider the 335i SP to suffer less from the adoption of RFTs than its non-SP sibilings). Consider the 328i non-SP instead, it has 205/55 R16 tires which in RFT form weight 27 pounds per tire when shod with ContiProContact all-seasons, and 28 pounds per tire when shod with poorly received Bridgestone EL42s. The same Continental tire in GFT form weights only 20 pounds (Bridgestone doesn't make a GFT EL42 in that size). IIRC, the wheels on a 328i weigh around 23 pounds, meaning that the entire RFT wheel and tire assembly weighs around 50 pounds (still waaaaay less than the PAX assembly), however, the GFT version would weigh 43 pounds, meaning that the RFT setup weighs fully 14% more than the GFT setup. Not an insignificant difference.

Best Regards,
Shipo

ptruitt

I have an 2007 BMW 335i , i don't have the problems with extra noise or anything from the tires. The only problem I have is getting one repaired or replaced in Texas. I have 255.35R18 90W Brigestone Potenza runflats. i have been tried for 4 days for someone to get a new tire in for me. I 300 miles from home, visiting a friend, and now without a car, cause the tire is soo hard to get, even the local BMW here, says they don't know when they can get one in. My question is if a tire is so hard to get replace, why not enclude a spare. I live in South Texas, no So Cal, so not a very common car, or tire.

nkeen

That's a problem. Have you tried TireRack? They should deliver within a day or two.

adethier

give me a break -- when you're on vacation, the last thing you want to do is get online to order a tire!

adethier

totally agree -- (our story: http://h-otch-p-otch.blogspot.com/2007/04/bmw-with-run-flat-tires.html)

I talked to BMW and they told me the whole industry was going to be following with excluding spare tires. I don't believe that except for maybe small sports cars, but certainly not luxury sedans.
I've since talked to audi, thinking of the upcoming new A5 instead of the new convertible 335 (since it doesn't have a spare) and they confirmed with me that other than their small TT, all their cars will continue to have spares. GO AUDI!!
Even the tiny little VW EOS has a full size spare in the trunk!

nkeen

Give me a break.

I was trying to offer an admittedly poor solution to what was phrased as an immediate problem.

circlew

Technology Marches On...I'll bet in 2 years, Audi will start RFT process.

Regards,
OW

ricardw

With all the talk about saving weight by excluding the spare tire and BMW much lauded 50/50 weight distribution. Can someone explain to me how the fact that the 335 engine is 40 lbs heavier than 328, gets corrected/balanced. I looked for maybe a 40 lbs dumbell in the back ...or wait how about a SPARE WHEEL !!!

shipo

"Can someone explain to me how the fact that the 335 engine is 40 lbs heavier than 328, gets corrected/balanced."

That's too easy. BMW simply adjusted the spec sheet, the 328i now has a Fr/Rr balance of 50.5 and 49.5 while the 335i has a Fr/Rr balance of 51.5 and 48.5 (both cars manual transmission equipped).

Best Regards,
Shipo

ptruitt

Yeah, thx for the advice, i finaly got the Brigstone to cough up an answer for when they can have a tire in. Which is today, Tuesday. So Tire went flat thursday, new tire tuesday. Everyone else, said they didn't know when they would get a tire in including the local BMW service center. Overall all I love the run flat tires, I just wish you could have the option of a spare too since they soo hard to get, and in BFE Texas, no one can do low profile tires, or even touch runflats haha.

pat

Well I think it was a logical suggestion since ptruitt was online talking about the difficulty in locating a replacement.

Looks like the problem is solved now, though - or maybe I should say a workaround to the real problem is about to be implemented since the real problem is RFTs/no spare/difficult to find replacements. Oh and expensive, too, right?

ricardw

Is that why the 335 has different tires sizes for front and rear?.
I am considering putting the OE 18" Bridgestones on my 328i coupe. I am currently on GFT's and the tendency to wander has vastly improved over the RFT's but it still does not handle like the 335 at Highway speeds and above.
Since the sport suspension is standard on the 328i coupe, does this sound like a feasible option? :confuse:

shipo

It is my understanding that the E92 version of the 3-Series Coupe has exactly the same sized wheels, tires and the same suspension, trim level for trim level, regardless of which engine is in the car. Said another way, a 328i SP should have exactly the same handling capablilites as a 335i SP (except you won't be able to steer as well with your right foot).

Best Regards,
Shipo

jerrycook

took my 325i to the dealership to have the right rear tire repalced since it had a nail in it.... was expecting to pay big bucks.. but they replaced all four tires for free. can't complain too much about that.

Jer

ricardw

So I have mentioned before that my friends 335 SP Coupe hardly does any noticeble tramlining at all compared to my 328 Coupe Non-SP. Some people on this board remarked that was probaly due to the fact that my friends car has the wider lower profile summer tires VS my 17" All-season tires.
Given this extract from TIRERACK says the exact opposite can someone offer some insight:
High performance tires with short sidewalls that develop lots of cornering power at lower slip angles will be more susceptible to tramlining than standard All-Season passenger tires that develop less cornering force until their slip angle increases. A wider treaded tire will encounter more longitudinal ruts and/or grooves in the road than a narrow treaded tire. A tire with large tread blocks that transmits the driver's input to the road with great precision will also transmit the road's imperfections back to the vehicle's suspension.

shipo

So, let me see if I've got it straight now, your 328i Coupe does NOT have the SP option and the 335i that you are comparing its handling to does. Correct?

Assuming that's the case, I know it is counter-intuitive, however, I've read just too many reports of the 335i SP having superior ride characteristics over the non-SP versions of the car. Given that the single largest difference between the two is the tires, you might well find that by going to the 18" staggered setup found on SP equipped cars will give you the ride and handling you are looking for. ;-)

Keep us posted.

Best Regards,
Shipo

ricardw

Well I hope you are right BUT, also from TIRERACK:
Usually the amount of offset change is kept to a minimum and vehicle tracking remains relatively unchanged. However it the offset is significantly different, it will alter the way the road forces are transmitted through the tire and wheel to the suspension. Therefore, large changes in wheel offset will increase the likelihood of tramlining

krzyss

swap wheels and test your car. If it drives better you know what you are missing.

Krzys

dan12

That being said, I test drove a 328i SP and a 335i SP on the same freeway with lots of ruts. I had to keep both of my hands on the wheel for the 328. The 335 was very smooth. I have no idea why.

shipo

Sedan or Coupe? On the Sedan, the two versions of the SP do NOT have the same size wheels and tires (the 328i sports 17" wheels, the 335i sports 18" wheels). On the Coupe, both cars use 18" wheels for the SP.

Best Regards,
Shipo

dan12

Both were sedans. So based on some of the notes here, you would expect the smaller wheels on the 328i to be more stable. But I found the opposite. Just one data point though.

shipo

Your observations track quite nicely with those of others. It would seem that the E90 and E92 3-Series cars feel the most tacked down when they have the 18" Sport Package wheels and tires mounted. Anything other than that and the cars can be a bit squirrelly, or at least so I've been told. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

xeye

My Sparkling Graphite Metallic 335xi is hopefully under power steaming across the North Atlantic due to arrive in NY on the 29th. If Customs and the trucking unions cooperate, I should be in the drivers seat in a couple of weeks.

I got Sport (17" All-Season tires), Premium, Cold Weather and Park Distance Control. I am hopeful that my vehicle will arrive with an oil cooler and ContiProContact SSRs.

I did find one thing interesting when checking out a colleague's new 335i convertible. You must have read about how the engines have had a reputation of running hot (~300 degrees, "limp mode", etc?). I noticed that that BMW has now replaced the oil temp gauge with a new one with a max of not 300 degrees, but 340 degrees! Presto! You're not at the max anymore! You can still make french fries, but you magically won't be cooking your piston rings and valve seals anymore 'cause you're not at the max anymore and everything is OK and Dorothy is going home to Auntie Em and BMW is finally getting a brain! Or maybe not...

jerryf2

I test drove the 328 SP and 328 no SP back to back. Both had Bridgestone's, Potenza on the SP and EL42 on the non SP. Tramlining is my number 1 complaint on our Cal grooved freeways, and the SP was MUCH worse in that respect. I think the difference is due to the tires and not the wheel size because I have since tried the 328 non SP with the ContiProContact and tramlining was much reduced.

dan12: Did you notice what tires were on the 328 SP and the 335 SP you drove?

dan12

I'm not sure about the 328, but I know that the 335 SP only comes with one type of tire -- the Bridgestone Potenza. I don't see any other RFT of that size at TireRack. That's kind of a bummer, because unless you go GFT the tires don't come cheap.

circlew

The 335I I drove last month had 17" Conti's (All Season). Very smooth.

Regards,
OW

circlew

xeye, best of luck with your new wheels. Let us know your perceptions on the xdrive with guts on the 2007+ forum. I have the '06 xi and love it. It will be interesting to see your perceptions on the handling prowess with the added HP.

What did you test drive, if I may ask, before you made your decision?

Regards,
OW

xeye

Thanks, OW. I will be happy to share my driving impresions. You say "2007+ forum". Is that other than this one?

I drove the Lexus IS350 and Acura TL Type-S back in 70 degree weather in January (in Boston!). Tons of torque steer in the FWD TL and somewhat schitzy manual, like it was on speed and over-anxious. The IS 350 was much better behaved and sophisticated, but a little boring with auto only. For some reason, I never made it out to the Infinity dealer, but the 37S wasn't available at the time and the AWD didn't come in a stick. Ironically, it's now the closest competition. It still makes me think it tries TOO hard to beat the Bimmer. Still a wannabee.

The 335xi was the only one that had the combination of a good balance of DSC (not overly intrusive), AWD, stick, plenty of power AND torque at low RPM, great stereo and, of course, BMW rep and handling. Plus everything I'm hearing in reviews says that it's worth digging a little deeper to get the BMW. I hope I'm right. I'm really not too worried!

BTW, my wife has a 1995 318ti with 130,000 miles. She's the one who suggested I look at BMW. I got hooked quickly! I'll be going from a 183 hp underpowered '01 Toyota 4Runner to 300 hp. Talk about over-anxious!

shipo

The point other folks have made and that I'm trying to make is that the cars with the 18" wheel Sport Package (335i Sedan, 335i Coupe, 328i Coupe) are the ones that reports suggest have the best resistance to tramlining. Said another way, the 328i Sedan is not included in the above list and will stil tramline.

Best Regards,
Shipo

circlew

My bad. It is the "335I 2007+" discussion in the BMW 3-series forum. Or you can start a new discussion!

Regards,
OW

pat

Here's the link: BMW 335i 2007+. You can check out all the discussions by going to the 3-Series group level. You can click that link, but you'll always see it at the top of the page of any 3-Series discussion.

Hope this helps!

xeye

I checked out the 2007+ blog. I'm only up to the Sept 2006 postings, and I'm grateful for another ~750 postings to pass the hours until my 300 hp 300 ft-lbs of torque animal shows up, but you know? These people are not normal. My apologies to Shipo who has posted there and anyone else as well, but there is a definite difference between these people and us.

I'll update more as I pass through BMW nirvana.

Most sincerely ( and btw, I WANT MY CAR!!!!!)

xeye

shipo

I'm not normal? Shhh, don't tell my wife. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

dan12

I am waiting too, in case that makes you feel better. Maybe we can form a support group. My car is not even going across the ocean yet. I am going from an SUV to a 335i too. We could have a race to see who will get a ticket... second.

xeye

Greetings,

Does anyone know how to find a call sign for a vehicle transport ship? My new 335xi is on the Wallenius Wilhelmsen Freedom voyage EB729-FRE. I know it is due in New York on July 29th, and I'm curious to locate it as it gets close. I know it's on the ship as I have tracked the cargo ID (aka VIN). I tried Swedish and Norwegian registered ships, but no luck.

Any ideas?

Regards,

xeye

xeye

OK, so this is a little long-winded. It's Friday AND cocktail hour (on the East coast!) Give me a break!

2 more days! My car will be in NY in 2 days! Then Prep Center, trucking to Boston, more prep and waiting for the Certificate of Origin which, for some G_d-only-knows reason, doesn't accompany the car. By now, I can recite the BMW brochures from memory!

Dan,

I got a speeding ticket a couple of years ago in my 4Runner for doing about 12 mph over the limit in Rousses Point, NY, a tiny little hick town. about 5 miles from the Canadian border. While I was sitting as the officer wrote the ticket, a whole school bus full of runny-nosed kids sat waiting to turn, hanging out the windows and heckling. I hadn't yet purchased my X50 radar detector, although I'm not sure it would have helped. When it goes off in a small town on a short street, it's basically telling you "You're screwed!". What made it worse, sort of, was the officer actually thanked me for being polite and patient! (I'm Canadian)

OK, Open question: What would you have said in response? This blog is audited, so be civilized! As for me, I kept my big mouth tightly shut!

Bottom line: If I get nailed, I lose to the cop. I hate losing when I have a choice, so you're done before we start!

I'll be satisfied if I can get to the speed limit quickly and handle any curve or road condition thrown at me. That's why I got the (335)xi. The xi Coupe (if available) would have been amazing, but there were also reasons why the sedan is just too easy as compared to the Coupe. If the car ever sees the high side of the centennial mark, it will be on a track where I can be aggressive and not risk everything.

I will be in touch since, sooner or later, I will get nailed, and I will need some sympathy! I truly think some day (soon?), my Jekyll side will come out while behind the wheel with an evil grin, and the hammer will come down! It will most likely be in Vermont in the remote hills, so no worries!

Happy Motoring, and drive your new wheels in good health!

dan12

What would I have said in response? I am too polite too so I would have just shrugged and stayed quiet. Sometimes you get caught and that's just the way it is.

I have been driving a wobbly Jeep Grand Cherokee and that makes it much easier to avoid tickets. You never have the desire to go fast even though it does have power. Speaking of having a car that handles all road conditions... the best part was when I pulled an Escalade out of the snow in the mountains. I was looking at getting the xi too, but in the end it doesn't make sense for the weather around here in California. I won't take the 335 skiing, so it will never see snow. So I have the 335 with the SP instead. The extra HP will be nice, but I hope I get used to driving a low-to-the-ground car again. I've gotten spoiled being up high in an SUV.

Let me know how your new car is. Mine is still not even on a ship yet. I still have a month wait.

milesontime

I have a 2006 330i sport package. After 10,000 miles, each of the Potenza runflats has bubbles in the sidewalls. I'm 2/3 of the way through a 2 year lease and these tires need to be replaced. The dealer tells me tires are not covered by the BMW warranty. I feel duped, these tires are defective. There's no reason why all of them should have this damage from highway driving.

Has anyone had this problem? Has BMW stepped up to the plate to replace them?

shipo

Two questions:

- Are the bubbles only on the outside sidewalls?

- If not, do the bubbles on the inside sidewalls match those on the outside sidewalls (i.e. are they directly across from each other)?

If you answered "No" to both questions, then yes, I'd say your tires are defective and should be replaced by Bridgestone.

Best Regards,
Shipo

circlew

I'd say your tires are defective and should be replaced by Bridgestone. ....but it wouldn't hurt for the dealer to make a customer phenomenally happy and take the lead here.

Regards,
OW

actualsize

If seen bubbles caused by striking a pothole. Low-profile tires are more susceptible. I myself suffered a "pinch-flat" in such a situation.

But having all four tires suffer such a failure is very odd. If it is due to a manufacturing defect, than I'd guess a whole batch of tires would be so affected - all with the same date code. Bridgestone would have heard other reports.