BMW 3-Series Run Flat Tires

jp900

Again, I would like to point out that it was my BMW dealer (preowned), Hendricks in Charlotte, NC that suggested they put GFT's on my car, 2006 325i, for me when I bought it. I would like to know who some of these other dealers talking about the voiding of warranties are so that we can begin confronting the mixed messages different dealers are providing.

Joe

circlew

The mixed message is no doubt due to the manufacturer recommendation for RFT only. A tire with exact proportions that is GFT can not do any damage to the suspension components as the wheels are designed to accept GFT's on the 3 series.

As far as voiding the warranty, while I am not a legal scholar, I would suggest that there is no physical evidence that differentiates RFT vs. GFT on the suspension of ANY given car produced today.

In other words, if you have a 2006 Buick, you could put RFT's or original replacement GFT's recommended for that car. This would not void the warranty any more than GFT's would void the BMW warranty due to any possible damage based on the difference of RFT technology in the same "proportional recommendation" for wheel/tire specifications.

Just my opinion.

Regards,
OW

bdkinnh

>"...it's the dealer. Don't take their word for it."

First time I've ever quoted myself, but it seemed right given what just happened.

I'm in the market for a 535i with the sports package. I just got off the phone with my local dealer (Tulley, FWIW Shipo), and the salesman told me that they didn't have any 535i's (with or without SP) to test drive so I should try the 535xi because, and I quote, "they will drive exactly the same". :surprise:

I pointed out that the 535i/SP has active roll stabilization and larger wheels; the XI is all wheel drive. They will not be anything alike. "Yeah, you're right" was his response.

It seems my hunt for a 535i/SP to test in NH is going to be a tough one. Looks like everyone around here is an XI fan.

shipo

"It seems my hunt for a 535i/SP to test in NH is going to be a tough one. Looks like everyone around here is an XI fan."

Well not everyone. I personally wouldn't have an emasculated 535i in my NH garage either. :P

As a thought, have you considered driving a 335i SP instead, just as a test? Given that the 535i only weighs some 66 pounds more (in manual transmission trim), I shouldn't imagine that the difference would be as siginificant as say between a 535i SP and a 535xi.

Best Regards,
Shipo

bdkinnh

As a thought, have you considered driving a 335i SP instead, just as a test?

Good point - thanks. I've always said that I had to test drive the exact model I'd be buying, but if I tested the 535xi and liked the interior et al, and tested the 335i SP and liked that, then the two should cover most of the bases.

Although, if they don't have any 535i's, you'd think they wouldn't have any 335i's as well.

shipo

"Although, if they don't have any 535i's, you'd think they wouldn't have any 335i's as well."

Hmmm, good point. Dunno.

Best Regards,
Shipo

ray1130

After 18K miles, the tires on my 330 are NFG due to lack of alignment although the postings indicate that the standard tires are defective. Looking at a $1,000 expense. I have taken the car for service several times and NEVER has the dealer dealt with the tires or the alignment. Not surprising, I suppose, since they are not covered by the so-called warranty! BMW suckers you into a false sense of security only to stick it to you. I guess I should be happy they changed the wiper blades. Will NEVER buy another BMW. AMERICA, WAKE UP!

shipo

Assuming that your 330i has the factory All-Season 224/45 R17 Bridgestone Turanza EL42 RFTs then they are covered by the Bridgestone/BMW replacement program. If you have a 330i SP then 18,000 miles is not too bad for mileage on the summer performance tires.

Best Regards,
Shipo

ray1130

Shipo, do you have details of the replacement program? Is there a website with the details? I'd like to be well informed when I storm into the dealer and try to get relief. I do not have the sports package on my 330 which is what I assume you refer to as a 330i SP.

Thanks loads for the info, though.

shipo

Sorry, I don't have the details off hand, however, if you scan back through this discussion and/or do a search on it, you'll find the information that you need. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

circlew

Also I'll bet his alignment is fine if no SP.

After 13K and very uneven tire wear, the new tires (continental contactpro ssr RFT) are wearing perfectly after 11K on the new tires and one tire rotation, front to back, same sides. The EL42's did not affect the steering alignment at all.

Regards,
OW

dkg42

MY EL42's were replaced after 17k miles. I had to pay half the cost at $350

After 4000 miles I got a nail in one of the RFTs and it had to be replaced at a cost of $232. The dealer scored the rim while replacing the tire and I got them to comp the tire.

When these are worn, I;m getting a set of regular tires and a emergency kit. I wish someone would file a class actionsuit against BMW.

I love my 325i, but I do hate the Bridgestone EL42's

ray1130

I'll look into a class action if I can't get appropriate relief.

ray1130

Found out that there indeed is a replacement program whereby Breakstone/BMW purports to give relief for the defective tires. On the surface, tires with less than 20K miles are replaced at 50% of the cost. Sound reasonable? NOT.

My dealer quoted me a price of $750 for my contribution, $310 for each tire and $130 for mounting. The tire price compares rather unfavorably with Tire Rack's; i.e., $227. The mounting cost is about three times what I have been qouted locally. Further, I checked into the cost of the Continental replacements and was given an out-the-door price of $780 for four ContiProContactSSR, an H-tire with 400/AA/A rating which I believe is superior to the Breakstones (actually, anything would be superior). I am sure that the price similarity is just a coincidence! There is a BMW class action lawsuit brewing from which relief may be available.

shipo

Hmmm, well those new sour cream RFTs are not only a bit pricy, but they're difficult to mount and balance as well. Just kidding. ;-)

FWIW, TireRack is a discount retailer and so it doesn't surprise me that they're selling tires at a significant discount over the same tires offered by your dealership (which are most likely priced at MSRP). As for the labor, that's just silly to charge $130 to R&R, dismount, mount and balance each wheel tire combination. Said another way, depending upon what part of the country you're in, $130 equates to an hour and a half to two hours per tire at local shop rates!

Me thinks that you'd be well served by politely but firmly questioning the service manager on the extreme cost of the labor especially in light of the inflated tire cost. In the end you might just be better off locally sourcing the Continentals.

Question, did you perhaps complain about your tires before you hit 10,000 miles? If you did you can make a case for (but not necessarily win) free replacement.

FWIW, the Bridgestone RFTs that you're currently running have the following specs:
Model: Bridgestone Turanza EL42 RFT
Size: 225/45 HR-17
Speed rating: H
UTQG: 300 A A

The above specs, while not necessarily as good as those of the Continental tires aren't all that bad either. Reading between the lines, I would guess that on a track your car would record lower lap times with the Bridgestone tires when run against the Continentals. Is that a good enough reason to stick (pun intended) with the Turanzas? Nope, not for everyday driving it isn't.

Keep us posted. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

cwexcel

Boy, I wish I read this forum before picking up my BMW 330i! I'm one of those victims that didn't quite understand that the RFT are not repairable by BMW...or Sears...or most for that matter. :mad:

I got a small screw in the thread area after only 500 miles, and now I have to bring it in for replacement. Boy that's gonna hurt! :sick:

Yes, I rather have regular top-of-the-line Michelin's with a full or compact spare instead of these RFT now that I know all it takes is one screw that'll set you back ~$300 I'm guessing.

Lesson learned...sometimes cool features is not cool at all!

agnosto

or the rims are specifically designed to hold ONLY RFTs?

shipo

Replace away, the type of RFT that BMW is using has the exact same bead as conventional GFT tires.

FWIW, the only RFTs on the road today (that I'm aware of) that do NOT mate to a conventional wheel are the Michelin PAX tires offered on some Acura RLs and Honda Odysseys.

BTW, if you do convert to GFT tires, don't forget to order one of these kits just in case of a flat:
http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/conticomfortkit/index.jsp

Best Regards,
Shipo

circlew

The rims will accept GFT's on the 3-series.

Regards,
OW

tam837

I have a 3 year lease with BMW. I have less than 400 Miles on my car and now have a flat tire. I went to my dealer, he showed me the nail and told me it would cost 260+tax to replace. Thats only for the price of the tire. labor is free.
It is a Bridgestone Turanza RFT EL42.
My question is, when I turn in my lease, do I need to have all 4 tires the same brand? Does it need to be Run Flat? What do you recommend to do with my tires.

Thanks
-tam837 :confuse:

circlew

You need to have the rft's in the same size at least. Since you have EXTREMLY low miles on your car, I suggest replacing with the EL42 now. (It happened to me at 5,000 miles and cost me about the same in 2006.) It's better to have the same tread pattern.

You will probably need to replace all 4 at about 20 - 25K miles with these tires and then you can switch to the less expensive Continental RFT's.

Regards,
OW

tam837

OW,

What is the average life of the EL42?
Can I mix the the tires, Have 3 EL42 and a cheaper RFT?
Can I turn in my car at the end of the lease that way?f

Thanks,
Tam837

circlew

Based on 300 UTOG, around 25K-30K miles is my estimate for tire life. I do not suggests a cheaper tire and 3 EL42's.

Unless you have a 2 year lease or drive turn it in with more than 25% tread life remaining, you will need to buy another set anyway.

I believe the end of lease qualifications require all 4 same tires.

Regards,
OW

Mr_Shiftright

I checked with a local and highly respected tire retailer who outfits race cars, Porsche, Ferraris as well as standard cars, and he told me he DOES repair RFTs, as long as the sidewall is not compromised. He also stated that BMW sends the tires to him since they refuse to fix them themselves!!

Also noted is that for leased cars it is essential that the repair be done very neatly so that the "plug" in the tire does not show. He considers the repair perfectly safe.

Last of all, he cautioned that the tire be taken to someone who knows what they are doing, since it is easy to damage the tire during removal from the rim and that the tire pressure monitoring system MUST be in good operating order at all times. Do not drive the car with the system down.

This was the shop where the owner of a Saturn Sky went beserk when he learned that his RFTs would cost him $400 each. His plaintive cry: "But...but...this is a SATURN!"

circlew

Hmm...Saturn....out of this WORLD!

My experience was a little different since I operated the car for 100 miles with zero pressure...I assumed replace since I never did that before! The tire "looked good" and the repair was made at the local GY dealer to tide me over while the new tire shipped to them but they ruined the rim when the replacement EL42 was mounted so it cost them too!

Anyone want one of the first RFT's to make it 100 miles?? :confuse:

Regards,
OW

skobola

I would take "free replacement" with a grain of salt, because I did it before I reached 10k miles, however, was charged $190 for balancing or some other BS in addition to the tires, which still is kind of high for fairly new tires and which should not be replaced if they installed good tires in the first place. But the noise was driving me CRAZY, so I decided to pay anyway. I have found later that some dealers had charged some additional money for additional service, and some have not at all, which is not fair to us who did pay for the "free" replacement. And BMW NA told me that they cannot regulate what the their dealers do charge, which sounds just fishy even to people who are not being bothered with this RFT fiasco.
Therefore, although I like Bimmers, I may possibly opt for some other car when my lease expires, if nothing else then just in spite of them being extremely unprofessional in regard to this issue.

sborchman

i have a 2006 325xi and i have runflats. already i have had to replace a tire , pay for a new rim and now i have another damaged wheel. i asked for replacement tires and my dealership are putting on contis. i asked for forged wheels but the dealer cannot find any that fit my model. any suggestions?

shipo

You have an "xi" and you've damaged two wheels already? Yikes. Did you buy an optional set of larger wheels and lower profile tires or do you have the factory set? If you're running (and damaging) the factory wheels, what part of your driving regimen is so hard on your wheels?

As far as forged wheels, well, they ain't cheap, in fact far from it. I poked around a bit and was unable to find any 16" wheels that were both forged and that fit your car, however, by bumping the rim size to 17" I was able to find two over at TireRack. The first is a BBS RGR Forged wheel (with two color choices) in the size of 17x8 costing $570 per wheel and the second is a BBS RS-GT (also 17x8) and costing $680.

The problem here is that by going to the 17" wheels you will not only have to buy new tires but you'll be stepping up to a tire with a shallower side wall and potentially exposing your new wheels to even more damage.

Best Regards,
Shipo

sborchman

i have factory set tires and they are 17 inches. i have allow wheels also from factory. the car came with low profile run flat tire and optional sports package with stiffer suspension. as far as my driving habits. well i live in nyc. i feaevery pothole. should i stay with the rims i have and put regular tires on as i cannot go on replacing rims every 6 month and which tire would your recommend?

shipo

"i have factory set tires and they are 17 inches. i have allow wheels also from factory. the car came with low profile run flat tire and optional sports package with stiffer suspension."

I thought you said you had a 325xi. If so then your car is not available with a stiffer sport suspension and the standard wheels are 16 inchers. Given that you have the optional 17s, you might be best served by replacing your wheels and tires with the standard factory setup which allows for better impact compliance. You can probably buy a factor set off of E-Bay or Craig's List for reasonable money and then sell yours for about the same or more.

Best Regards,
Shipo

sborchman

i'm sorry, i have a 330xi with 17 in wheels.

shipo

Ahhh, I see, I must have misread your post.

Okay, so you have a 330xi SP without the sport suspension and you have the standard 17x8.0 inch wheels with 225/45 R17 tires mounted on them. Do I have it correct now?

Regarding forged wheels, I just rechecked the TireRack web site and they do not list any of the BBS forged wheels that I found for the 325xi as fitting the 330xi. I find that a bit odd to say the least. Were I in your shoes I'd call BBS USA and ask them directly if any of their forged wheels will fit a 2006 330xi (I suspect that they will).

Keep us posted.

Best Regards,
Shipo

ray1130

I got a new set of tires under the "replacement" program. Since the tires had 18K miles on them, I had to pay 50% of the "cost" for the replacement tires (unfortunately the same tire) but the mounting and balancing was free. That "deal" was what the dealer said that BMW was offering. A second dealer I contacted said that BMW would pick up the total cost of two tires but I would have to pay for the mounting of the other two tires at $130 each. I agree that the tires were NFG from the outset and both the tire manufacturer and BMW know it. There may be some additional relief in that two class action lawsuits have been filed, one in California and the other nation wide. A search will yield the particulars. If the suits work like the ones over securities, the law firms will contact the class members and distribute the damages collected less costs. It may not amount to much financially but it will surely put a smile on my face!

jp900

I saw on a Leather Z website a spare tire that can be purchased for the 300 series which fits rather nicely in the trunk. Anyone know anything about it. The link is:

http://leatherz.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=01&Product_Code- =SpaceSaverSpare&Category_Code=

mooselook

My lease on the 2006 Audi A4 is about to expire and I've been seriously considering the 328 xi. However, I have concerns about the RFTs. On a recent road trip 300 miles from home I hit a small board on Rt 80 and wondered what would have happened had I been on RFTs and gotton a blow out. Am I thinking about this incorrectly or has the 3 series become an "around town" car because of these tires? Should I stay away from BMW until they offer conventional tires as an option?
Thanks for your opinions...
Regards,
Mooselook

dan12

Well, I think you would have been safer with RFTs if you had a blowout. The problem would be what you could do after the blowout if you are 300 miles from home. According to the manual, you can drive approximately 155 miles with complete pressure loss in a tire. So you would have that much distance to try and find a shop that can replace your tire. I suppose it should also be possible for a shop to install a donut spare tire and throw your wheel in the trunk. The other option is to carry a donut with you on such long trips. You may also install non RFTs, but that wouldn't help you much because you would still need to carry a spare with you if you are concerned about trips over 150 miles away.

skobola

This is exactly what ticks me off, namely, that different dealers implemented the exchange differently, thus making us who had to pay something look like suckers. It is not my fault that BMW as a company installed a substandard tires and that I by living in Miami had to pay something that should have been free or provided at 50% discount. BMW told me that they cannot regulate what BMW dealers charge, which is a joke. As I said before, it really left a sour taste in my mouth, and although I love Bimmers, it certainly made me start thinking about going somewhere else... Which I believe is stupid on the BMW's end, but who am I to challenge this?

circlew

You are the customer and IMO, your dealer looses. It just happened that my dealer absorbed all of my cost but if they didn't and I was in your position now, they would not get my business. One e-mail to the sales rep got the ball rolling and in a week the tires were changed. I had 12K miles on the EL42's when the swap was made to Conti's.

For instance, when I rotated my tires, I stripped a lug and took it to the dealer to fix. The dealer replaced it and also rotated the one set, no charge. Total cost out the door $2.25.

Use your dealer as leverage on your next purchase and then let them know you are going elsewhere.

Regards,
OW

agnosto

Precisely and agreed 100% and that is one of the main reasons I stay away of buying the BMW "UDM" as these RFTs are a big concern, and better BMW do something sooner than later to address and correct the issue or otherwise will have many unhappy and soon will loose lots of customers...

ggurr54

For some of us it has become an "around town" car. I would love a new 335i but I live 120 miles from the nearest BMW dealer. I average one to two flats a year (a lot of construction where I live with all the extra nails and screws in the road) and can't image paying 400-600 dollars and year to cover tire damage. Also would be scared to death of getting stuck with no source for a replacement tire as no dealer in my home town carries RFTs. Until BMW realizes that this is a real issue for some of us they will continue to lose business. Otherwise I think it's an almost perfect car. (Please bring back the dip stick).

skobola

Provided that BMW dealers in Miami became pretty arrogant, rude and not caring about the customers, including them not giving any decent deals, I have found myself one outside the town/state, where I do all my purchases at very decent cost. Unfortunately for me, I have really grown to like Bimmers, and to be honest, nothing else really compares to Bimmers in my book, so it will be very difficult to find a replacement. The only one that I could stand is the A4 Quattro, but this is not really comparable to my 325i. I understand that this is not the topic for this forum, but any suggestions for the alternative cars would be appreciated.

beverly5534

I had an Audi A4 before my X5. I loved my A4. It was a close decision, but I now have a 328I sport wagon. I have had 2 flats in 4 months ownership. Not the car's fault, but a real PITA to have to find a dealer and then BUY another tire. If BMW doesn't give the option of regular tires with a spare by the time my lease is up, I WILL get the Audi A4 wagon to replace it.

IMHO
beverly5534

raphaelhom

Who is your service advisor at Valencia BMW. I have had a service advisor there for 3 years I like very much. One of the reasons I am thinking of buying another BMW is because of the service he has provided.

On the other hand, I"ve had a hard time there getting a sales person to pay any attention to me. They all act like they are doing me a favor even talking with me, let alone go for a test drive.

I have found this same attitude at Santa Monica BMW. That they are doing me a favor and if I want a test drive I need to make an appt because they are too busy to just have someone walk in for a test drive.

The service department at the Santa Monica BMW is absolutely horrible! by the way.

circlew

Firestone carry BS EL42.

Regards,
OW

jgraffman

I have a 2006 325xi sport wagon. It has both the sport suspension and 17 in wheels. I replaced the run-flats with Michelins after 7500 miles. As far as a spare is concerned, I wouldn't change a tire anyway. This is a great car, but I won't buy another BMW until this problem is fixed.

jazzcp

My dealer on long island has agreed to replace my Bridgetone tires with Continental tires for free...previously wanted $600. Stay on the case...be polite...The BMW franchise is too valuable to have it blackened over this issue

shipo

"I have a 2006 325xi sport wagon. It has both the sport suspension and 17 in wheels."

Correction: You have a 2006 325xi sport wagon with the Sport Package and 17" wheels. There is a difference as no "xi" models have a "Sport Suspension", hence the fact that the Sport Package on the AWD models is so much less expensive than on the RWD models.

"I replaced the run-flats with Michelins after 7500 miles."

Michelin what? RFTs, GFTs? Which model?

"As far as a spare is concerned, I wouldn't change a tire anyway."

Uhhh, so are you saying that you like RFTs?

"This is a great car, but I won't buy another BMW until this problem is fixed."

What problem are you referring to? RFTs in general or the specific issue with the Bridgestone Turanza EL42 RFTs? FWIW, Bridgestone has allegedly fixed the problem with the noise and premature wear on the EL42s.

Best Regards,
Shipo

raphaelhom

What "problem"? would you like fixed.

I am considering and just test drove the 3 wagon 2007.

But they only sell it with these tires.

So what exactly are you guys wanting to change?

You want them to go back to regular tires?

shipo

"You want them to go back to regular tires?"

Speaking strictly for myself, yes, I would that BMW redesigned the floor pan of the trunk to accept a full sized spare tire and a jack, and started using GFT tires as standard equipment on all of their cars.

Best Regards,
Shipo

kywoody

I'm trying to decide between a 328xi and a G35x. Does anyone know what, if anything, BMW has done on the 08s to correct or improve the problems with the previous RFTs?