BMW 3-Series Run Flat Tires

shipo

"Hmm.. I asked my service advisor and he said that BMW no longer recommends rotating tires. He says there is no need to do it. Is he wrong?"

Yes.

"I have the non-xi SP with the staggered setup, so rotating would be more of a swap."

There's no real benefit for you to do a side-to-side rotation. Just leave'em where they are and replace as necessary.

FWIW, personally I'd be inclined to "unstagger" any staggered BMW just so I could rotate the tires.

Best Regards,
Shipo

ray1130

As someone who has been exposed to the consequences of a $600 flat, my recommendation is that you stay as far away from RFTs as possible. By the way, there are more nails "around town" that "out of town".

brokeowner

What put me over the edge was the last screw that I had was from BMW...I couldn't get a tire from Firestone for a week so I had to go to the dealer, they charged me almost double for the tire. 215 from Tirerack, 400 from BMW of North Haven CT...350 from Hartford dealer...

That was 2 weeks ago, I have a sheet metal screw in the back tire now....

ray1130

Challenge you can. Don't buy another bimmer, EVER, which is what I am going to do. Not because of the tires but because of the unconscionable behavior of a company which sells a premium-priced car and treats its customers like suckers. I now own an Acura and a Lexus and the treatment I have received from both of those companies is MUCH better than that from BMW. As long as people continue to take the BS, the company will continue to abuse its customers. Tell whomever will listen.

brokeowner

BMW sells what is supposed to be the best product. But why don't they stand by the tires? They don't have the class to stand by the entire (no pun intended) product they sell...

My girlfriend has an Audi, their service is incredible, I just wish their A4 could compete...

crsdoc

My BMW dealer just replaced my original Bridgstone RFT's at 25,000 mi (for horrible road noise/uneven wear) for the Conti RFTs. I was expecting an argument about the cost, but they themselves told me they were doing this as a courtesy because of poorly matched OEM tires. (Dealership with a conscience?)

Now I am only incredibly angry and frustrated with the Comfort (non) Access and silly iDrive.

--trapped in a Love/Hate relationship with my car

bdkinnh

>"Don't buy another bimmer, EVER, which is what I am going to do. Not because of the tires but because of the unconscionable behavior of a company which sells a premium-priced car and treats its customers like suckers. I now own an Acura and a Lexus and the treatment I have received from both of those companies is MUCH better than that from BMW"

Lexus is buying my car back from me via the Lemon Law. Until I filed the paperwork, they tried to screw me like a groupie at a Kid Rock concert, and even after they agreed to buy it back they still jerked me around.

Lexus may have given great customer service in the past, but that isn't the case anymore.

Sure, the dealer has treated me pretty well, but Lexus corporate themselves are just like any other car company - they won't do anything until you put a gun to their head.

bdkinnh

>"FWIW, personally I'd be inclined to "unstagger" any staggered BMW just so I could rotate the tires."

Wouldn't you be giving up performance by doing that? I have to admit that I don't know how much benefit a staggered setup is, but since my 535 SP will have it, I have to assume that there is some.

circlew

Coming to a street near you.





Looks promising.

Regards,
OW

shipo

"Wouldn't you be giving up performance by doing that?"

Yes and no. Yes, you will give up a bit of bite for those clutch dumping/pedal mashing/tire melting hole shots (something that I never do), however, in return you'll gain the proper neutral handling/oversteer that BMWs have long been famous for. Said another way, gone will be the annoying (but relatively benign) understeer that is most common in nose heavy FWD cars.

Speaking strictly for myself, the benefits of symmetrical tire sizes all the way around are far greater than just gaining the ability to rotate the tires. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

bdkinnh

Hmmm.. perhaps when the run flats wear out, I'll switch the rear wheels to the same size as the front.

As always, thanks for the info.

dan12

Now I am only incredibly angry and frustrated with the Comfort (non) Access and silly iDrive.

What do you find frustrating about Comfort Access? I don't have that option but would consider getting it on a future car, so I am curious.

Dan

jackdelia4u

On my birthday, Oct. 14, I went over to the World's Largest BMW dealership and purchased a very nice birthday present for myself, a 2007 BMW 328i sport wagon with sport and premium packages. So I thought. What a kick in the pants this has been for me. What hurts even more is that I traded in my trouble-free, smoothriding, Lexus LS 430 sedan for the this "problem child". On this day I wasn't able to return home with my new toy. Why? The battery was dead. Charge it! They couldn't. There was a problem with a steering sensor and they had to get an overnight delivery from BMW in New Jersey. By the way, I live in Florida. They gave me the loaner sportwagon and it drove like a dream. A few days later I picked up my new car, with a paint chip in the left driver's side rocker panel. They said they would fix it and they did. No problem there. Driving the car home I found that it drifted to the right and when I braked it drifted even further to the right. And while braking I was getting some serious chatter in the steering wheel. Brought the car back to BMW and they told me they would fix it. They tried. They told me that they recalibrated the front end and took the tires off the rims and fixed everything including repolishing the rusty rotors. Fine, let's see. Picked up the car and took it straight home to my garage. Looked the car over and found two new paint chips, this time in the passenger side rear door. They said they will fix it. Ok...The next day I had time to road test my car on the highway and guess what...it bounces all over the highway with even the slightest bump. When not bouncing from left to right there is also the loud noise coming from the front end and some chatter in the steering wheel. Drifting you ask? To the left and then to the right....What gives with this car? Now I have an appointment to see the dealer on Monday and they say they will fix the problem because a BMW is the "Ultimate Driving Experience". Baby, let me tell you something. LEXUS is the ultimate driving experience. I am giving these guys a chance to work this out for me because I generally like the looks of the car but I have to drive it sometimes and this is turning out to be a real hassle. Is it the run flat tires on the car? Or is the fact that this car has been sitting on the BMW lot for 9 months and 6 miles on the clock and the tires have deformed? Can someone give me some advice on what to do here? Can I invoke the lemon law? Oh, forgot to mention that I took a look at the driver's side door lock and it is starting to rust. By the way, I purchased this car from the World's Largest BMW Dealership!!!!

jerryf2

I have had a 2007 328i Sport Wagon for 10 months and 10K miles and it has never been back to the dealer for anything, since it has been 100% perfectly reliable so far. That said, the bouncing from left to right is likely the tramlining and skittering due to the run flats. Do you have Turanzas? Plus, the SP lower profile wider tires are MUCH worse in this respect than the non SP run flats. I am told that the Continental tires are much better but I don't have any first hand knowledge. When I bought my car I had intended to get the SP but back to back drives with and without the SP demonstrated the poor run flat behavior, especially evident on rough freeways. On smooth black top the SP is great and I am sorry not to have it, but could not tolerate the tramlining on these grooved and old concrete freeways.

larry175

i bought a new 2005 330xi and it also was a piece of turd. ie:lemon. with bmws, i am told. is when they are lemons they are lemons. GET RID OF THE CAR NOW. use the lemon laws.
document everything and take pixs of all. bmw will buy the car back. dont't let the N.Y. lawyer scare you. just let it be business. don't put miles on the car. bmw is a nice car but different from the [non-permissible content removed] cars. they handle and ride diffrent. if i can help just reply to me.

jackdelia4u

Thank you for the reply...I spoke to the sales manager on Saturday and he assured me that they would fix the problem. I think that I am going to demand a another new car and see what they say? What do you think their reaction will be? It is really strange but I love the car but I just think it has to handle much better than what I have experienced. Jack

jackdelia4u

Hey Larry...thanks for the reply...I am going to ask them for a new car and see what they say? J

aviator01

Hello,
i am from the Caribbean island of Puerto Rico,and it happenned exactly the same to me,except that the rim nor the wheelwell was damaged,anyway it was a $600.00 US dollar event,including the tow and the cost of new tire, ouch!
What a shame that a car company that epitomizes car engineering excellence can make such a stupid mistake with those Bridgestone tiers and even worse,carry no spare tire nor tools!
I am not recommending BMW to anybody!!

dunde71

I used to own a 2001 325xi which had a full size spare. I do lot of long distance traveling and I have had a flat on the highway I-81 (PA). And boy I can tell you thru my personal experience the convenience of having a full size spare. Put the spare on and I was on my way to NY. No need to stop to even look for a repair shop which I wouldnt have found anyway in that mountain area and even I had found one it would not have been open on Sunday.

Hopefully one wouldnt get a flat on the highway or in remote areas. But if you do then make sure that your fallback option better work. These run flats are a bogus idea. They really dont solve the problem. You still have to take it to a repair shop. And most likely the ordinary repair shops cannot fix RF which will end up screwing up your travel plans. Besides you cannot drive more than 50 mph with these RFs if you have a flat which is no better than a donut. This is beside these RF being noisy, expensive, rim damage, etc etc. My point is that these RFs dont even solve the purpose that its designed for.

circlew

That's what being anal about weight will do to an over-zealous engineer....less weight at all costs.

Regards,
OW

jackdelia4u

Hi Larry! I took the car to BMW yesterday and they road tested the vehicle. They told me there was no problem with the tires and the steering and that everything was fine. I just wouldn't accept this nonsense. I then took a ride with the front end mechanic and he found that the car drifted to the right..and then again on the same road and at the same place on that road..the car drifted to the left...they told me they would correct the situation and replace the front tires and that the rear tires were fine? What do you think? I asked them to replace all four tires but they are not going to do this. Also, I couldn't operate my rear windshield wiper...I didn't want to break it so I let the dealership guys try..guess what? The factory put the wrong control stem in and there is no way to turn the rear wiper on. What a quality car I have purchased! By the way, I have Bridgestone Potenza 17" RF tires on the vehicle. What do you suggest? The car is in the shop now and I am on my 3rd loaner vehicle. I told the service guy that I have put more mileage on their loaner cars than I have on my brand new BMW. jack

jackdelia4u

Does anyone know if there are any recalls on the Bridgestone Potenza 17" Run Flat tires? Thankks, Jack

dunde71

Sometimes they over engineer things ... just like that iDrive concept. But I personally dont think that its weight reduction that they were aiming for. The problem is that the tires nowadays are wider than before and when you lay it side ways in the trunk it will consume more space and the trunk has to be carved accordingly to fit it. So now instead of 12 cu ft you will get 10 cu ft of cargo volume. That will sound horrible when trying to compare with other vehicles. Cargo volume is one thing almost every buyer looks at.

danmcc

Ok, I have read a good portion of the posts in this forum and I am convinced to go the GFT route on my first set of replacements for my OE RFT's on my '06 330. I actually had a good experience with the RFT's managing to get 34K miles- no real issues until just lately I notice alot more noise and less quality ride. However I can't stomach forking out $1300 for tires when I drive 20K miles a year. So what go flat tires do you all recommend? Thanks in advance. DM

shipo

Assuming that you want to stay with all season tires; from a different message board I've been hearing glowing reviews of the new Michelin Primacy MXV4 (which cost $170 in the 225/45 R17 size from TireRack).

For a set of all season tires that are both well recieved in the market and fairly inexpensive, you can go with the Kumho Ecsta ASX (which cost $87 in the 225/45 R17 size from TireRack).

Two other honerable mention tires in between the above two from a cost perspective are the Yokohama ADVAN S.4. and the Yokohama AVID W4S (both in the 225/45 R17 size from TireRack and costing $166 and $107 respectively).

Let us know what you decide upon and how you make out.

Best Regards,
Shipo

richardga73

Shipo, I dont know about those "consumer reviews" at Tirerack. I think you should treat them like any other subjective opinion that is based on thumbs up thumbs down. They (tire rack) dont do any real comparison testing scientifically. The only testing service that is reliable is consumerreports and often they are outdated with the Primacy not even included as it is a new tire. The Kumho tires consistantly rate at the bottom of the tests while the tire rack "over the backyard hedge" opinions the Ecsta as really great. Tires are such a blind purchase with the salesman often not knowing anything. ( A salesman said to me last week that the H rating was lower than the S an T ratings because the ratings went alphabetically???!!!!!) I bought believe it or not the Goodyear Tripletred for one of my older mercedes and they are a fabulous mix of handling and smooth quiet ride. They arent for those of you who love the gokart feeling.

shipo

"Shipo, I dont know about those "consumer reviews" at Tirerack. I think you should treat them like any other subjective opinion that is based on thumbs up thumbs down."

Who said I was parroting anything that TireRack had posted?

"They (tire rack) dont do any real comparison testing scientifically."

I have in fact read a fair amount of the tests posted by TireRack (as opposed to the consumer reviews) and their tests are no less scientific than any other test that I've read in CR or any of the auto rags.

"The Kumho tires consistantly rate at the bottom of the tests while the tire rack "over the backyard hedge" opinions the Ecsta as really great."

No one said that Kumhos were the best tires available. All I intended to say was that they are well regarded given their relatively low cost.

"I bought believe it or not the Goodyear Tripletred for one of my older mercedes and they are a fabulous mix of handling and smooth quiet ride. They arent for those of you who love the gokart feeling."

I happen to have those very tires on two of our cars, and while they are quite appropriate for our minivans, I would never dien to put them on one of my BMWs (or a Mercedes for that matter).

Best Regards,
Shipo

jackdelia4u

Hi Jerry! You answered one of my earlier posts. My 328i sport wagon is back at the dealer for the third time. I found out that I have the Bridgestone Potenza 17" RFT's on my vehicle. Can you explain what "tramlining" and "skittering" is. I have been reading some of the posts and maybe this is what I am experiencing with my new sportwagon. I have more mileage logged on the dealership's loaner cars than my new bimmer. What a joke! I have asked for a new car and told them I don't want this vehicle anymore. Thanks, Jack

jerryf2

jackdelia, Tramlining is the tendency to follow grooves in the road. (Tire Rack has an article on tramlining in their tire tech section.) California has concrete freeways with grooves running along the direction of travel. With the Turanza el 42 tires my wagon pulls back and forth. On flat black top this effect does not exist at all and the tires are perfectly fine. If you drive the 3 series with and without sport package, you will find sport package tramlining much worse.

By skittering I mean a non 'planted' feeling cruising at speed on less than perfect roads. I made this term up and it is probably the same as tramlining.

Comments in this thread indicate that continentals tramline much less than Turanzas. I certainly hope so since I intend to get them.

actualsize

Tramlining, groove wander and "skittering" (let's just say skittishness) are slightly different phenomena.

Logitudinal rain grooves interact with the tread blocks in a very specific, small scale, mechanical way. It has to do with tread block design and how that interacts with the span of the grooves in the road. Any tire with sloppy tread design can have this problem.

Tramlining has more to do with larger-scale road imperfections such as longitudinal seams (betweeen lanes) and ruts. Internal tire construction plays a bigger part here. Suspension design plays a big part, but wider low-profile tires are most susceptible.

Skittishness relates to straight-line instability over rough pavement such as patches, cracks and lumps. This is typically found in tires that don't "envelop" such imperfections well enough. The tire (and suspension) doesn't conform to the road, so the contact patch gets smaller over localized imperfections, leading to a skittish feeling. Hard sidewall tires, including ulta-high performance and runflat tires, are most vulnerable.

cdnpinhead

Good stuff. Thanks.

jerryf2

This is the best description I have seen. Now my question is whether the Contiprocontact SSR is significantly better than the Turanza EL42 in any, or all, of these respects. Or do I have to go to non RFT tires?

Most of my driving is on California grooved and rough concrete freeways.

benbennett

These run flats are a nightmare. The only tire available for my 2006 330i is the bridgestone pirenza - no Goodyear equivalent. Also, the tires are simply not available. I contacted Firestone (Bridgestone's sister company) to get 2 new tires and was informed that the tires are on back-order until January 2008, because BMW had purchased the entire stock. It then took 8 days for my BMW dealer to get the tires. BMW quoted me $1,012 plus tax for two front tires and alignment. So what happens when i get a flat when i am out of town? Simple answer - never drive the car more than 50 miles from a BMW dealer. Then be ready to leave your car in the shop for a few weeks while a tire is located. Never buy a car without a spare tire.

cdnpinhead

". . .Never buy a car without a spare tire."

. . .or a dipstick.

Yet I'm seriously considering it, albiet with a separate set of GFTs. If I lease, I'll only run the RFTs 5 or 10K, then go to the real tires & put the RFTs back on in time to turn the car in. If I buy the car, I can sell the RFTs on e-bay -- sounds like there's a pretty good market for them.

Good luck.

bowmen

I have a 2001 330i that I am cosidering trading in for a 2008 330xi but these RFT's sound like a nightmare. When I brought them up to the salesman of course he said they were the best thing since sliced bread. How can you consider using GFT as an option because then you have no spare and the car I looked at in the showroom has no room for one under the trunk floor?

Thanks

Mike

shipo

How about a one link answer: http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/conticomfortkit/index.jsp

bowmen

I called tirerack about this kit and they said it shouldn't be used on RFT's

shipo

You asked:

"How can you consider using GFT as an option because then you have no spare and the car I looked at in the showroom has no room for one under the trunk floor?"

I answered:

"How about a one link answer: http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/conticomfortkit/index.jsp"

You responded:

"I called tirerack about this kit and they said it shouldn't be used on RFT's"

Ummm, yeah, but the point was that you could then mount GFTs on your 3er and still have some flat insurance.

Best Regards,
Shipo

rfl

just ordered my second bmw (335xi) with Continental Contiprocontact RFTs....I know, I'm a glutton for punishment! That notwithstanding, I also ordered a spare wheel and a spare tire and will sacrifice the trunk space to have it there when I travel distances. (btw...dealer sold it to me at cost $441(BMW wheel and Conti tire-mounted)....
my question is...WOULD THE COMFORTKIT work on RFT's... some say yes...Tirerack says ?? and continental won't answer an e-mail. Anyone with experience? Would love to keep the spare tire in the garage and have just the comforkit in the trunk if it would get me home. How long and how far can u actually run with the comfrtkit having been used to reinflate? Lastly...I got 29000 miles on my last set of the RFTs without a flat. Rotated every 7500 miles.

bdkinnh

It shouldn't be needed - the purpose of the kit is to inflate the tire, but if you have a runflat you won't need to inflate it. That's the whole idea of runflats.

The only way a runflat would cease to function is if it is shredded, and in that case the Conti kit wouldn't be any help.

But, to answer your question: no. It won't work.

circlew

You got excellent mileage if your last set were the BS EL42's! Good work on the rotation!

On the Confort Kit, here's what TR says:

The ContiComfortKit combines a powerful, high-volume, 12-volt air compressor, integral pressure gauge and a latex liquid tire sealant packaged in a compact, lightweight unit that's easy to store in the vehicle. (Kit is 9.5"W x 7"H x 3.75"D.) This product's sealant may interfere with the tire pressure monitoring sensors on vehicles with direct TPMS, possibly leading to error prompts and incorrect pressure readings. Use of this product on direct TPMS vehicles could also result in damage to the tire pressure sensor inside the wheel. Please contact your sales specialist at The Tire Rack for more information.

Good Luck.

Regards,
OW

rfl

Heaven forbid...BS EL42's? they came off of the car after 4000 miles. I wouldn't take a set of those for FREE! Dealer replaced them early-on with the Conti Pro Contacts (at no charge) which made ALL OF THE DIFFERENCE in the world in ride comfort and durability. I ordered the new car with the instructions MUST BE EQUIPPED WITH CONTI PRO CONCACT SSR tires or customer will not accept delivery. Guess they took me at my word because that's the way it was shipped.

circlew

Excellent! I'm impressed!

Now at least you have the lesser of 2 evils. I agree the Conti's are much better. I am hearing the new BS EL42's are better and I know unsuspecting customers are taking delivery with those tires.

Regards,

rfl

Anyone who spends $40K+ for a BMW should take the time to read this and other similar forums before signing on the dotted line. Unfortunately RFT's seem to be the future of the tire industry so one might as well learn from other's experiences and get the best of the worst! The contis are so far better a tire than the Bridgestones that I cannot fathom that BMW is still buying the Bridgestones...they must get a hell of a deal on them. Seems like all of the 335's though are now coming through with Contis so perhaps they're taking note of the displeasure that it's customers are expressing. Change moves slowly from the Black Forest! There does seem to be something good coming out of this nonsense though...there are DEALS(!) coming from dealer's on new 3's that didn't surface earlier. We're talking discounts of at least 4-5% for the asking. BTW...tried a"spare" with a real wheel and tire in the trunk of my 330xi...and it's not too bad. (Especially with the tire bag that you can order from Tire Rack- 2 for $20!) For a long trip, I can drop the rear seats(fold down -part of the cold weather package)...and there's room for 4 pieces of luggage. To think I almost ordered the hard top convertible...now that's a luggage problem!

shipo

"Unfortunately RFT's seem to be the future of the tire industry so one might as well learn from other's experiences and get the best of the worst!"

I'm thinking that I disagree with that statement. Given the number of engineering and safety compromises that these tires usually come with, coupled with the very negative backlash that is literally all over the internet, my bet is that manufacturers aren't going to stop making GFTs any time soon. As if to underscore that thought, Honda, which for the last two or three model years has equipped all of their Odyssey Touring minivans with RFTs (using the Michelin PAX system), has suddenly announced a partial about face. Now, for the 2008 model year they are offering standard GFTs as the default tire system with the PAX system as an extra cost option. I already know of several folks who are buying the 2008 wheels and tires (and a spare and jack too) for their 2007 and earlier Odyssey Touring vans, just so that they can dump the RFTs and get back to a better performing and more cost effective wheel and tire assembly.

Needless to say, time will tell on this issue, but it is my fervent hope that BMW takes all of the negativity to heart and redesigns the trunk floor of the E90 and E92 to accept a spare tire and a jack assembly.

Best Regards,
Shipo

alex_76

i got mine 06 330i almost 2 years and it has the same problem to RFT. I had to replace all 4 new in BM dealers and after 6 months it started to have to same distrubance. The 2 front has a lateral edge tear and they are making noise especially when I drive around 40-50 mph. Heard about changing to new manufacture tire like Pireli or Conti. So which name should I turn into now ?

shipo

The popular concensus seems to indicate that the Continental RFTs are the best choice. That said, if you want to move to GFTs, then the whole world of tires becomes your shopping ground.

Best Regards,
Shipo

jaxs1

I'm considering leasing a 2008 328i sedan without sport package and with standard wheels and tires for 3 years 45K miles.
Under normal conditions about how long should the OEM tires last?
If they would need to be replaced more than once in 45K miles before the lease return, would it be best to replace them with some longer wearing runflats right away, then put the original tires back on before turning the car in for the lease return?
Storing the OEM tires for 3 years would be kind of a hassle and waste of garage space though.
I'm starting to wonder if the money saved on free BMW maintenance vs paying for the maintenance on some other brands of cars that have long wearing OEM tires would be spent in tire replacement costs on the 328 over 45K miles.

shipo

As a general rule, all-season rubber should last quite a while. That said, it seems that even the best all-season RFTs out there don't last as long as conventional all-season GFTs, however, thirty to forty thousand miles should be easily achieved. FWIW, my 1999 328i non-SP came with 205 section width all-season tires as well, and when I turned the car in after 39 months and nearly 50,000 miles the fronts look like they could go an easy 20,000 more miles while the rears had at least 10,000 left on them.

Said another way, you might get by with the factory set for the duration, however, there is a fair likelihood that you will have to buy one set over the course of your lease.

Best Regards,
Shipo

jaxs1

I had heard that people have had to replace them around every 20,000 miles. If that's true, I would have to replace them twice on a 45,000 mile lease and that would be very expensive to do.
It's probably true that they won't last 45,000 miles, but having to replace the tires twice in 3 years be an excessive cost.

There has to be a lot of tread life left in the tires when you turn the car in, so even if the tires make it to the end of the lease, you will still be charged for new tires if they are too worn.