BMW 3-Series Run Flat Tires

ricardw

Really? I hope you a right, I will check tonight.
Thanks
Ricard

michael2003

It appears that the Bridgestones were not the least expensive route to take. According to the Tire Rack, the Bridgestones are the most expensive of the 3 sets of RFT's available.

circlew

I rotate my own tires and check pressure every 3 weeks. Every time I take it to the dealer, the pressure is off the charts when I check...just like when I picked up the car new!!

Regards,
OW

lipp

I am up to 20k on my Conti RFT's. I had Bridgestones and I suffered all the same problems as everyone else. The Conti's are GREAT. Wear is excellent, ride is great and sound is not an issue. I totally agree with your assessment, and my personal feelings about BMW will not change. They are a horrible company to do business with, especially when there's a problem. The way they handled, and continue to handle this RFT issue is "bush league". My first BMW is my last BMW.

bruceomega

owner6, Which model 3 series do you have?

owner6, circlew,

Its interesting reading your comments as it sounds like you are pretty satisfied with the ride quality with Conti RFTs.

In my own case, I found the Contis far better than the original EL42s for ride quality, but I stll encounter periodic "hard hits" on the roads in my area despite trying hard to avoid noticeable problems like large potholes.

With an X3 that we own, and a 535xi that we recently test drove, neither of those vehicles gives a hard hit on the same road sections that do cause the problem with my 330xi.

For several reasons, but with ride harshness being the catalyst, I ordered a 535xi, with standard wheels and GFTs, to replace my 330xi.

Thanks
Bruce

ricardw

My tire pressure checked out ok. 32 (f) 35 (r)
It definately is worsened by the road conditions but I am talking about a high volume Interstate Hwy. It feels like the back of the vehicle is on soap ie not planted.
If this is the effect I will use GFT's.
Either way I am taking the BMW Dealer's Service Manager on a drive thru this stretch on friday. Maybe I should lead in my crappy old Toyota and urge him to keep up with me

shipo

Well the inflation numbers look pretty good so I'd say that your next stop should be TireRack.com. If you have a lease car, just keep the crappy RFTs until near the end of the lease and have them remounted. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

circlew

Bruce,

The ride harshness over bumps is slightly better but still will rattle your teeth in my car. The noise is gone with the Conti's, as discussed.

The 330xi suspension might not have so-called SP tuning but there is something very different than the standard 330i non-sp which rode much better over the same roads I drive when I had that model loaner for 1,000 miles last year (with EL42's).

In other words, the xi suspension is stiffer than standard E90 suspension. Coupled with the stiffer sidewalls of the RFT's, the car "bottoms" against the suspension stops and the tires absorb way less shock than GFT's would.

Regards,
OW

bruceomega

circlew,

Thanks for the feedback that "ride harshness ..... still will rattle your teeth in my car". I was beginning to wonder if I was being too critical for a sports sedan.

Anyway, that is what I am trying to avoid.

Bruce

yoshodeep

Just bought a 328xi with Bridgestone RFTs. Don't know much about tires, but is it safe to drive the car with 3 RFTs and 1 conventional (same size) tire for a few days?

Went to the local "Discount Tries" to buy road-hazard protection, and they told me that in case of a flat tire situation, if they don't have RFTs in stock, they'll give me a regular tire to ride on for a few days, and will replace it with an RFT when they get it. Would it hurt the car if I do it that way?

circlew

Not as long as the tire and wheel/tire is the same size diameter, profile and width and is the same type(winter/summer/All-Season). No damage or unsafe condition will result from using a duplicate GFT vs. RFT on either axel.

Regards,
OW

shipo

Given the rather significant differences in the sidewall stiffness, I wouldn't do any high speed driving that's for darned sure. Safe for around town driving? Probably. That said, I wouldn't do it personally.

Best Regards,
Shipo

circlew

No damage or unsafe condition will result from using a duplicate GFT vs. RFT on either axle....

For a few days only!!!

Regards,
OW

cdnpinhead

when radial-ply tires were being introduced, we were warned to NEVER mix radial & bias ply tires on the same car.

Being young & even stupider than I am today, I tried it . . . once. Going around a cloverleaf-type 270 degree curve, I learned what the warnings were about. No damage, but a lasting memory. Found myself a radial spare in a hurry.

Can't help but wonder if mixing tires with vastly different sidewall stifnesses couldn't result in something similar.

shipo

"Can't help but wonder if mixing tires with vastly different sidewall stifnesses couldn't result in something similar."

Exactly what I was thinking.

Best Regards,
Shipo

ssinegal

I currently have the RFT's because they were standard on the 325Xi series. However, as of tomorrow I will no longer have the Bridgestone RFT tire. I plan to make the switch to a Michelin standard 205/55/16 style tire. This is the second time I am having to replace one of the RFT tires, and honey it ain't cheap! Once my lease is up on this car I plan to also make the switch to Lexus. BMW has done a poor job with the service, not to mention the fact that they are pushing these horrible tires and not informing you that the dealer will only replace and not repair the tires. Good Luck!
ssinegal :mad:

owner6

FYI,
Come June 16, BMW will raise the price of the Extended maintenance contract with an increase of $500.00. I just Purchased the extended maintenance for $1,285.00 yesterday. It gives you a total of 6 years and 100,000 miles of maintenance. Keep in mind that a brake and rotor job alone costs about $1,000. just thought I would give you all aheads up for something to consider if you plan on keeping the car past the original 50,000 mile free maintenance.
Owner6

ricardw

So the Service Manager says there is nothing wrong with my car. He did say that it "needs getting used to" because so much of the steering is computer controller. I miss my VW Golf ..very direct steering and PLANTED on the road. Below 50MPH I love my car ..above that on these highways I hate it.
I will try the GFT's tomorrow. Any suggestions on that?
225/45/17 Coupe comes with sport suspension std.
Ricard

shipo

...because so much of the steering is computer controller...

Yikes, what'd I miss? That's the first I've ever heard of computer controlled steering on ANY car much less the 3-Series.

Regarding GFTs, I'd just go and get a set of relatively inexpensive Kumhos and see how you like the GFTs before investing in an expensive set of skins.

Best Regards,
Shipo

ricardw

I will do that. I can use the same rims right?.
Keep the RFT's and put them back before I sell the car.
BTW the "Service Manager" came across more as a Sales MAnager. It is rather wierd that the Service Consultant immediately setup me up with the Service Manager when I called and described the problem. During our trip I asked what effect the RFT could have on the steering. He shot back "abolsutely nothing" very quickly and then proceeded to explain the virtues of RFT. Anyway..will update on Monday.
Ricard

shipo

Yup, same rims. ;-)

lipp

Regarding GFTs, I'd just go and get a set of relatively inexpensive Kumhos and see how you like the GFTs before investing in an expensive set of skins.

Shipo: I have nothing but respect for your knowledge and for the amount of help you provide to the readers of this forum. It's absolutely great. I do have one small problem. You make things sound too easy at times, and in fact, you down play this tire issue. Paraphrasing from some of your hundreds ( if not thousands) of contributions to this forum: "Just buy a set of GFT's". "Try inexpensive Kumhos and then invest in..." "Remove RFT's and put GFT's on until lease is up then replace GFT's with RFT's when turning in." "Store the GFT's in the basement, closet or rafters in your garage." "Buy a repair kit". "Buy a spare." One you did not think of: "How about buying the car without tires then go shopping at Tire Rack?" When will you realize the insanity in all of this? Insanity because BMW refuses to resolve the problem. Many of us don't have the time to chase down solutions to a tire problem that should not exist. Many of us are displeased that we have spent $40,000 on a car that we have to spent so much time resolving an issue that BMW should have resolved by now. It's insane and it's irresponsible for BMW to not properly resolve this issue. It's their reputation and I guess it's the direction they want to move in.

shipo

There are of course two sides to every coin, and this one is no different. As I understand it, the population at large when asked about having RFTs (in focus groups and such) on cars has responded with an overwhelming "We want it." That said, clearly the question wasn't fully asked, because it should have been something along the lines of, "Would you buy a new car with RFT technology even if it had no spare, had a reduction in ride comfort AND handling prowess on anything less than glass smooth roads, and replacement tires were going to be relatively expensive and difficult to find at your local tire store?"

Personally I credit BMW for continually pushing the new technology envelope, even if that means totally screwing up every now and again. Do I think the RFT thing was half-baked? Yup, I've said so from the very beginning. Do I think their response has been acceptable regarding the RFT issue? No, not particularly, but at least they did finally step up to the plate and offer a fix of sorts for non-SP cars. That by the by is WAY more than Honda has done for their almost criminal usage of the PAX system on a few of their models (Odyssey and RL).

In the end, it is us consumers that gave the tire companies and vehicle manufacturers the initial nod to start using RFT technology, and now that many of us have finally tasted the Kool-Aid, it's time for us to indicate that it was a good idea gone bad. Will BMW retrench and go back to five wheeled, GFT shod cars? Don't know, my crystal ball isn't that clear (although it was clear enough to predict the class action law suits that are now materializing against the Honda/Michelin PAX debacle).

Regarding my advice; all I'm trying to do is to help folks deal with their issues in the here and now. If it has also proactively helped someone to look beyond the BMW marque and buy a car with real tires, so much the better.

As for my coming to terms with the "insanity" of equipping cars with RFTs, well, that goes back to my actually giving them kudos for trying something new, but hey, I gave GM "trying something new and daring" credit for the Aztek (sp?) even though I absolutely thought it was the ugliest abomination on the road.

Moving full circle around to the BMW/RFT thing again, the next several years should prove to be interesting, and fortunately for me, I will most likely be able to sit on the sidelines and watch it all unfold. Mrs. Shipo and I are moving our family to Hong Kong in a little over a month and won't be needing new wheels until we get back State-side in "one to three years". My personal 51st percentile prediction is that by the summer of 2010, BMW will have abandoned RFT technology and I'll be able to buy a nice 535i SP with a three pedal 6-Speed and good old fashioned GFTs. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

gwl2

Shipo, I haven't seen any post concerning 2007 Beamers. I have a 328i non sports package with about 2000 miles on the RFT's and they have been performing pretty well.

You state they have a fix for the non SP's ( I'm assuming you mean Sports Package ) What is the fix ?

What tires do you recommend putting on my car if/when I have a promlems ...Thx in advance ...Gary

circlew

These tires perform very adequate compared to the original EL42 RFT tires from Bridgestone. Road noise has been drastically reduced and handling performance is also much improved specifically over uneven surfaces. On glass-quality pavement, it is a new experience! So Lexus-like!

I assume Shipo was referring to owners such as myself without SP equipped cars. We had replacements with Conti's or upgraded EL42 BS with changed rubber compound (circa mid-2006). That is why BMW continues to use both brands on 2007 models equipped with RFT tech. and no spare. Without the firmer SP suspension and 18" summer tire comb, this fix works for non-SP 17" All-Season equipped 3 (and I assume 5 series vehicles, as far as I know from this forum. I think the SP customers are not that satisfied. The patterns are similar in Europe from our fellow posters across the pond.

BTW, after 8K miles and one rotation, these tires are extremely uniform wear patterns. I would replace these again for all season use (since I have a 330xi).

Regards,
OW

horseygal

i realise this is not a tire question, but since Shipo seems to be our guru I thought I would ask here. Someone wants to trade his 94 328i for a truck. I would love to get another BMW, but have heard the 3 series are the dogs of BMW. Is this true? Should I move forward? The car is really clean inside, he says he has all the paperwork, it had a transmission overhaul at 122K, has 157K on it. Why would he want to get rid of it after only 3 months?

Thanks for any help and I'm sorry if I am screwing up on the forum.

horseygal

horseygal

Sorry, I meant to say 318i!

horseygal

gwl2

You replaced your RFT's with Conti's or the new Bridgestones with different compound? Like I said, they seem to working fine so far

shipo

To the best of my knowledge the 2007 model year non-Sport Package cars have a different rubber compound than the 2006 models, and as such do not have the same problems. FWIW, BMW is supporting dealers to replace tires on cars that are suffering from noisy tires. The cost is either zero for cars under a certain mileage limit or about half cost (I think) for cars over said limit but under a second limit. Over the second limit the owner is on their own.

Regarding tires you should consider if you encounter the problem: According to folks like circlew who've had theirs replaced, the ContiProContact RFTs seem to be providing good service.

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo

Hmmm, a thirteen year old 318i with 157,000 miles on the clock... Ummm, unless it has a COMPLETE (as in from day one) service history, and unless it has had the coolant changed ever three or so years, and unless it has had the brake fluid changed every 24 months, and unless your local independent mechanic says the car is in good shape, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

The fact is that old/high mileage BMWs aren't all that expensive to maintain IF (and only if) they've been properly maintained all along. If they haven't, they've been known to be serious money pits.

Best Regards,
Shipo

Mr_Shiftright

The 318 was not BMWs best effort by a long shot.

circlew

I replaced EL42 with Continental RFT's.

Regards,
OW

ricardw

As I have mentioned here before the handling of my 328i COUPE is bad. All coupe have the sport suspension as standard. I have 17' Bridgestone Turanza EL42.(225/45/17)
Last night I drove my friend's Coupe with SP and thus 18' Potenza (225/40/18.Lower profile than mine.
Within 10 feet I could feel the difference. The ride is much softer. The steering wheel turns MUCH easier (with 18' tires!). Also I drove his car as 110mph on the same road that I feel unsafe doing 80mph in mine.
Since my car is brand new (got it 10 days ago) I believe the "new" EL42 Turanza's to be just as bad.
Is it possible that in an effort to fix the premature tire wear and noise problem, Bridgestone messed up the sidewall stiffness. Can the lower profile make such a diffrence?
What do you think?
BTW I am getting my Kumho's today.

shipo

Hmmm, I find the above surprising to say the least... I wonder if there is something wrong with your suspension.

Given that the Kumhos are going on today, it will be interesting to hear your driving impressions. If they do the job, then all is well, however, if they don't, I'd have your dealer go through your suspension with a fine toothed comb.

Best Regards,
Shipo

kyfdx

Something to keep in mind besides 17" vs. 18". He has summer tires and yours are all-seasons.. There is likely to be a greater difference there, than from the size issue.

owner6

This is in response to POST # 1053. I wouldnt believe that bridgestone changed the tire compound/construction to eliminate the RFT problems, unless you receive a letter/document/bulletin from BMW that states the change and date of tire manufacture date to verify. Where is your personal proof?
please let us know?
Owner6

nclarry

I recently replaced the Bridgestone EL42s with Continental RFT's. What a difference. The car handles much better, rides better, and the tires are quiet. My car no longer rides like and sounds like a semi. The Bridgestone tires are real dogs.

:shades:

gwl2

my understanding it was manufactured the 48th week in 2006. I purchased the car in March....and like I said in an earlier post, no issues as of 2k miles...keeping my fingers crossed.

circlew

I do not have documentation. The SR at my dealer told me that in July 2006, Bridgestone notified them that the EL42 rubber compound was changed because it was to soft (treads) and created excessive uneven wear. That is all I know.

IOW, no real proof. Anyone else have more info?

I have every reason to believe that happened since BMW continues using EL42 on new cars today. If that is not the case, I wonder why we haven't heard as many complaints as last year on this topic?

I also saw one blog that an owner replaced his EL42's from Tire Rack at 22K and when he experienced the same problems with the new ones, Tire Rack exchanged them for Michelins. That was in 2002!!

Regards,
OW

highlandpete

Here in the UK, users are finding 18" wheels run much better than 17". I've driven an E92 coupe on 18" Potenza's and the ride is so much better than the 17" on same spec' Bridgestone Potenza's on my E91 Touring.

I've not yet tried an 18" wheel set on my car, but I'm hoping to do so, to put this issue of 17" vs. 18" to the test. My BMW dealer is also aware the 18" are better. At least one UK dealer doesn't recommend 17" on the 6-cylinder cars.

There were suspension mods' on some models October 2006 and it is suggested the dampers are different, Bilstein being mentioned as the new supplier.

HighlandPete

gwl2

Got a reply from the BMW website from one of their engineers.No rubber compound change but did alter the tread design mid year because of excessive wear problem.

If anyone else wants to go to the site and e-mail them also, it would be interesting in to see if we got the same reply.

ricardw

That is exactly what I experienced. Although as a previous member remarked, the fact that the other tires were summer tires may have an impact.
"At least one UK dealer doesn't recommend 17" on the 6-cylinder cars. "
Is this related to the suspension or tires.?

ricardw

OK, the car feels totally different now with the GFT's on.
It feels lighter or more responsive at low speeds. The steering is lighter at low speeds and the ride is so much smoother but still tight enough. The jittery/buckling ride is gone.
I feel so much more in control of the car.
I cannot believe the BMW can shoot themselves in the foot like this/ or are they shooting us in the foot.
By the way, in the latest CR SUV report the X5 doe snot score well in the "Ride" section and they make the following comments: "the stiff suspension will frustrate most buyers"
also
"On dips and broken pavement, the suspension delivers constant snappy motions back and forth and side-to-side. The impacts are not jarring, but wefound the constant quick short motions uncomfortable"
Sound familiar ??

shipo

Interesting. Your experience is virtually identical to a half of a dozen other folks I've heard from who've gone the GFT route. While the reports I'm hearing are anything but scientific, they are however starting to reach beyond "Anecdotal" and encroach upon the realm of "Empirical". I've been saying for a couple of years now that "RFT tuned suspension be damned, unsprung weight is still unsprung weight. Reduce it and the performance, ride and handling of the car will improve, all else being equal of course."

For my part, I keep wondering when BMW is going to figure this not so closely kept secret out, and get back to the business of building cars with GFTs (along with the soon to be mandated TPMS systems) and five real wheels and tires. ;-)

Congratulations on getting your car sorted.

Best Regards,
Shipo

highlandpete

Both examples of Potenza's (17" & 18") were same spec' summer tires.

The worst ride/skitter/bump steering issues appear to be with the stock suspension cars. In the UK we have SE spec' with standard/stock suspension, a sport suspension option on the standard SE cars and the M-sport motors. The M-sport suspension is different to the sport option on the SE cars.

17" wheel sets don't seem to work on the standard suspension, as many of us are finding. The latest M-sport on 18" tyres give a much better ride. Several guys have 'back to back' experience with M-sport and SE cars and verify this is so. The SE's suspension crashes and fidgets by comparison.

The emerging view is go M-sport and get the better ride. Doesn't seem right but having driven a facelift M-sport 535d Touring for a week, I'd say there is truth in this, the ride on 18" wheels was brilliant. I've been told by one driver that the 335i M-sport touring is streets ahead of the SE alternative. The M-sport is compliant, planted and controlled, whereas the SE car he 'backed to back' had suspension crash, was all of a dance and reacted to all road blemishes. The guy he exchanged cars with for the test had the same view, wished he'd gone for the M-sport.

Highlandpete

highlandpete

My Goodyear Eagle F1's are so much better than the RFT's. Having the chance to fit the RFT wheel set back on my car (have done so on two ocassions, for tests) I can only say they ride poles apart.

The confidence factor on the F1's is so much better, the car doesn't dance and skitter about. The suspension is not working half as hard to try and keep the car on track. The steering is predictable, with the RFT's you get some surprises!

Highlandpete

ricardw

Thanks for the info. My coupe is supposed to have the "Sport Suspension included" although I did not opt for the Sport Package that adds the different tires. With the 18inch tire and lower profile the Sport package bring you a inch or so lower to the ground. Wonder if that has an impact. I find a good test is to take the car to 30/40 mph and then move the steering wheel left and right 3 inches or so. With the 17' RFT the tail of the car was slow to snap back in line. Even with the gft it is much better but does not snap back as fast as the 335 Coupe with Sport PAckage.
It seems a shame that you have to go for the top of the line just to get a decent ride out of a BMW.

ricardw

I seem to remember having "run flat" type tires on my VW Golf many years ago. This was back in SA. The tire were just meant to "save your life" in the event of a blowout.You where not meant to drive on them at all. You actually had a small spare wheel. They were actually good tires. That just makes so much more sense to me. And this coming from someone who has had a blowout at 90 mph and came out alive of a totally wrecked car. Despite this experience I hate the EL42 RFT so much that It is NOT WORTH THE PEACE OF MIND.

rrizzo

I just got off the phone with the SR at my dealership who agreed to replace my 4 Turanzas RFTs with 4 new Contis at no charge to me. I got my 325i in June of 06 and had a noise complaint at rotation at 9600 mi and last week at 15000 mi. the noise was so loud we can't talk in the car at speed. When I asked to check the tires for cupping, THEN they said they were defective. Had I not bitched, I would have replaced them at my cost in a few weeks. That pissed me off.

Their deal was that I pay half the cost of replacement. That was unacceptable to me as there was never any recall or warning. I made a stink to the dealer, BMW and Bridgestone. Had I not mentioned the noise last week they would have skated on the replacement. How many out there just bitched and bought new tires?
At least BMW did right by me this time and I love the car.

gofast,
Riz

circlew

Congrats on your NEW CAR! Feels good to know you received satisfaction.

My story was so much easier because all I did was send an e-mail to the Sales Woman, Tahtiana, at my dealer in NJ stating I was unhappy with the noise from my tires at 12K miles. A SR called me within 5 minutes and questioned me on the problem. He then scheduled me in to replace all 4 at no charge.

Keep the faith and have fun with the new ride!

Regards,
OW