BMW 3-Series Run Flat Tires

shipo

The basis for my statement is that BMW did not put the Sport Package suspension or tires on ANY 3-Series "xi" models back when your car was built (and to the best of my knowledge still does not offer the suspension on AWD 3-Series sedans). Want proof? Simply look at the tires; all 3-Series cars built since 2006 that have a true Sport Package have staggered tire sizes (i.e. wider tires in the rear). That said, as of 2008 or so, BMW allowed buyers to opt for the staggered tires on "xi" models; even still, these cars came with the standard suspension.

puffin1

yup! I bought 4 continentals and whoever thought they would work out so well. I have always had to buy Michelins MXV4. You tell people about them and they look at you like your'e nuts. :shades:

shipo

We had a similar discussion around here back in 2006 when your car was first out; it begins here: http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef13c75/6377#MSG6377

and then continues here: http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef13c75/6442#MSG6442

and then the meat and 'taters post here: http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef13c75/6457#MSG6457

busiris

The RFTs on the BMW factored into my decision to buy a 2009 G37S-6MT instead of a BMW.

Understandable. Even you, however, would probably agree that you are in a small minority in that regard.

The real issue as I see it is this....

BMW owners (as a group) really don't care if their car is equipped with run-flats or not. Few people buy a car with the issue of flat tires in mind.... including myself. That issue is way down the list...

What gets their dander up is when the tires need replacing after low mileage or a road incident (read... tire puncture).

But, what really sets them on fire is when they realize they really don't have much of an option when it comes to tire replacement, other than another brand of expensive run-flat tire.

For most BMW owners, they can deal with a spare & a jack... they're conditioned to deal with that. However, I personally can't see many women on the side of the road with a tire repair kit and 12 volt inflator pump, repairing a flat. I don't think I'm in the minority in this thinking, either.

So, unless the owner is willing to give up trunk or interior space for a space-saver spare, there aren't many other options other than keeping the expensive run-flats that cost a lot more, have poor wearing characteristics (enhanced by BMW's "no rotation" policy...sometimes enforced by having different sized tires front to back), that have a harsher ride and usually need replacing after even the smallest puncture.

If BMW owners had the option of either regular or run-flats, I think 95% of this issue would most likely disappear.

Its not like offering the option would add an impossible layer of complexity to the manufacturing process, and I simply can't imagine creating space for a space-saver spare in the trunk floor (like practically evey other brand made offers) is too much for BMW engineering.

I'd love to know how the decision was arrived at that said "nothing but run-flats from this point forward."

Still, BMW sales continue to increase, so its obviously not a deal-breaker for too many buyers...at least, not yet. Maybe never...

bett12

After reading this discussion regarding RFT's you can bet I'll be asking about them! I have always insisted on Michelins on all my cars and have never had a problem but now that I'm seriously considering a CPO BMW 328 am I going to have to settle for what's on there or buy new ones? Before this forum I would have looked at the tires but not known about RFT's, so thanks for enlightening me. Not sure if they'll be a deal-breaker for me, either, busiris if the car is "all that"!

puffin1

Unless you're Jason Bourne. :shades:

bjjja97

We have a 2008 335ix and have had 5 flats in New York City with these tires. No pot hole is too small to compress the tire again the rim and split it. BMW has been no help and our tires which now have 8K on them (considering we change to snows in the winter and have bought 5 new rft) has lots of road noice due to "feathering" as one tech put it and "scalloping severe" as put by another tech. They are recommending another brand rft which supposedly wears better. Thank goodness we were smart enough to buy a service contract on the tires when we bought the car but we would NEVER buy another BMW but frankly the dealer in NYC knows this is a problem and neither informs new buyers or could care less.

jgraffman

A South Florida car dealer (not BMW) wrote a column in the local paper and made some interesting comments.

OEM tires on new cars are custom made for quiet rides to facilitate new car sales, and you won't find these tires for sale to the public.

Auto manufacturers recommended tire pressure (on the door frame) are also skewed for soft rides and are too low for best tire wear.

A good figure of merit is the treadwear index listed on the tire sidewall.

I checked my treadwear index: 140 on OEM Bridgestone run flats, 300 on non-OEM Michelin go flats.

shipo

Some tires like the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S have a Treadwear indication of ~540.

kyfdx

Treadwear values are not comparable between different tire makes... only within their own brand.... counter-intuitive, I know...

capriracer told me that...

shipo

I've heard the same thing as well; that said, I've also heard that the numbers from different manufacturers are supposed to be roughly analogous.

al2travel

An "all season" tire will always give you longer tread life than a performance tire.

The performance tire will, handle better and have much higher cornering, and better grip than an all season.

It's like a gear in a differntial, you can have torque or you can have speed, but you can't have both. Same for tires, you can have lots pf grip or you can have long treadlife, you're not going to get both!

Insofar as tire treadlife ratings are concerned, 100 is deemed to be average and that is a figure you can use across tire makes and types as a general indication of treadlife.

capriracer

"Treadwear values are not comparable between different tire makes... only within their own brand.... counter-intuitive, I know...

capriracer told me that... "

Ah.......No. I wouldn't say that. Here's the scoop!

There is a NHTSA requirement that tires have a treadwear rating on the sidewall of all street passenger car tires sold in the US. That rating is based on a test procedure described by NHTSA.

Truck tires do not have this requirement - and that includes LT type tires commonly used on heavy duty pickups and vans. Winter tires also do not have this requirement.

The test has a built in problem in that the procedure requires the tire in question to be paired with a SRTT - Standard Reference Test Tire, which only comes in one size - and that the tires be swapped between the vehicles - which are supposed to be otherwise identical vehicles. If you are testing a tire that is a different size and it is incompatible with the vehicle - like a larger SUV size would be - then you are allowed to compare against a different tire with a known test result. Typically this means the "control" tire has to be traced back to a test against the SRTT - and that might mean multiple comparisons.

Now comes the part where the confusion of comparing between brands comes in: What is required is that the rating on the tire can not be GREATER than the test result, but it is allowed to be smaller.

Every tire manufacturer has their own philosophy about what to put on the sidewall. Sometimes the need is to maximize the rating - and sometimes the need is to rate the tire in a particular segment for marketing purposes - and sometimes a consideration is given to how a consumer may interpret that number (Some consumers think that 100 = 10,000 miles, so a 540 is good for 54K - which completely ignores the wide variation you can get simply by how many turns you make per mile).

For example: It is common for tires designed for racing purposes, but have to be "DOT" marked, not to be tested at all! Those are marked as a "50", knowing that the tire will easily pass that. Heck, I've even seen tires rated "0" (Zero!) - and, of course, any tire will pass that! Clearly, consumer expectations for race tires would not include good treadwear.

So when tires from different manufacturers are compared, there's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes.

OE tires complicate the issue, because each individual tire (and I mean down to the size level) is made to meet the vehicle manufacturer's requirements. That tire (make/model/size) will be different than the same make and model in a different size supplied to a different vehicle.

As a result, OE tires may be rated according to the test result - OR - may be given a rating that is conservative, but the same for the entire line (meaning tire make and model). Since OE tires do NOT carry a treadwear warranty, this is not a problem for the vehicle manufacturer - and it's only a problem for the tire manufacturer if the tire delivers wear mileage lower than the vehicle buyer's expectations.

HOWEVER, this same tire is available in the consumer market and some niches require a treadwear warranty. So when a comparison is made between tires (meaning treadwear rating to treadwear rating), there are many things that are going on and the net result is that an individual consumer may experience a completely different wear mileage for tires that have the same rating.

So simple, all-encompassing, statements don't work when we talk about treadwear ratings. The best statement I have come up with is that you CAN compare between brands, but you have to take the rating with a grain of salt - and may be the whole shaker!

shipo

I am very well aware of the differences in grip between an all-season tire and a summer performance tire; have been for years and years. That said, I defy you to even remotely approach the handling limits of a performance all-season tire (like the aforementioned Michelin Pilot Sport A/S) in any kind of driving that isn't seriously extra-legal and/or on a track. Said another way, I see absolutely zero reason to consider fast wearing summer performance tires for a car that isn't going to be tracked versus a long wearing performance all-season tire.

I mean really, why buy a tire that will wear out in 15,000 miles when one can buy a tire that will offer 100% of the street performance and last three times as long?

reggie6

Did anyone ever actually get the Luggage Compartement Emergency Wheel Storage kit.? I have a 328xi coupe ( non sport package) and my rft are very noisy at 24K. We purchased the car recently CPO and its great except for the noisy tires. I am considering changing over to GFT asap ….with Conti DSW all season tire. Any thoughts?

larry175

I just put them on my 09 335ix coupe and what a difference. Very quiet and the best part is that the sidewalls don't flex to much so the handling isn't effected much.

reggie6

Glad to hear the Conti's DWS are working out for you. What are you using for a spare tire system?

harrylyme

I also made the change to Conti DWS. So far I love the change. The ride is much improved.

I just keep 2 cans of fix-a-flat and an air pump for emergencies. While I know that will not handle a real blow-out, it will handle most problems and it does not take up much trunk space.

I am also more vigilant about checking my tires and the tire pressure.

rayainsw

My experience with run flats on a BMW 3 is confined to 4 or 5 test drives [ I did have run flats on my 2007 Corvette Coupe – for 30,000+ miles ] but I do have one observation:

My impression of the 335iS Coupe’s ride quality, even with the very low profile 19” tires [ P225/35R19 front & P255/30R19 rear run-flat performance tires ] is that BMW has quite dramatically improved in this area.

My reading on various BMW-focused forums suggests that others have experienced similar findings.

After driving 335s on previous occasions, and noting the harshness of the run flats under certain conditions, the 2 times I have been able to test drive a 2011 335iS Coupe surprised me in how civilized the ride was.

Apparently the 3 has recently received revised suspension tuning [ different dampers, at least ] and this may be the \ one result.

- Ray
Planning European Delivery of a 335iS next year . . .

Firebird_EOU

My 2nd set of RFT lasted over 63k miles (thread wise, not noise wise).
I took the plunge to switch to non-RFT and bought the green goo w/pump from Amazon as backup. I have only driven 20 miles on them locally so cannot and later noticed the shop filled it to 35psi. So far so good I haven't noticed the Lexus like ride but it's less noisy for sure. It's half the price for a set of 4 than RFT.

texas_bmw

All,

Great discussion, wish I could read it all.

Here is my simple situation.

I have a 2004 325xi wagon with a spare well. I have an option to buy a set of gently used rims and all season Bridgestone RFT tires for a very good price.

These will be my "winter" tires for Texas.

So, if I have a spare of the same size, what are my concerns?

Thanks,

Dennis

Mr_Shiftright

Well presuming they never run on snow, then that's okay. RFTs don't make very good winter tires but they might be okay as "winter" tires And I hope you have a good mega-watt sound system.

reggie6

You mean MEGA MEGA watt system….and earplugs.

reggie6

We just put our order in for the new 535 x drive, comes standard with RFTS…hope we still have some traction in the snow. Our 2008 535xi was great with the "gets flats" tires!

Mr_Shiftright

When I had RFTs on my MINI, I used to play trucker's songs so that I could imagine I was driving an 18 wheeler, to match the tire noise.

nkeen

I have a 2006 325i with sport suspension. I replaced the Bridgestone RE050A II tires for the first time last year (I only have 39,000 miles on my car and swap to Blizzak LM22s for winter use). The replacement tires are quite transformed from the originals -- much more supple and less prone to tram-lining. Expansion joints which used to bang through the chassis on the orginals are much less of an issue now.

I was less impressed with the 17" Contis on a 4WD (X-drive) 328i I had as a loaner recently.

taxesquire

I see that most people in this forum who switched from RFT to GFT seems to go with goo or something else to provide a temporary fix of a GFT. Anyone get an actual compact spare/donut and jack to keep in the trunk?

I assume we'd have to get it from BMC to make sure it fits (both the wheel/tire size and the jack).

If you've done this, please comment on the price BMW charged and how much trunk space it took up. TY

larry175

me, I did. I put run flats on my 09 335ix at 26000 miles and one rim was cracked after hitting a pothole that required a new tire. I bought the jack kit from circle bmw in New Jersey for about $147. inc shipping. I had the cracked wheel fixed and the new run flat mounted on it. What a pleasure. I can hear the radio, the phone and the wind noise from the windshield. The car rides better too.
Larry

nwalkley

I have a 2008 330xi with rft's. At beginning of winter, pressure message came on - brought back to dealer (within certified preowned warranty) and was told it happens in weather changes, they reset and sent me on my way. Today, after 2 foot snowfall and drop in temp to under 30 degrees, notice came on again...anyone have repeated problems with pressure gauges in cold weather? Is this common?

johnsam

There is one solution to this problem but your dealer is either unaware of the solution OR he does not wish to make good on the warranty.
Replacement of all the sensors is the only solution. One (1) (or any combination up to all) sensors are faulty.

I did not have a "cold" problem but when mine failed, the dealership, whose owner is a friend of mine, told me that replacement was the only ultimate cure. After all, you are driving the "ultimate driving machine".

Mr_Shiftright

They shouldn't be that sensitive. My BMW-made MINI and my friend's 2007 328i both have the TPMS, and neither is *that* sensitive.

srs_49

On my G37, the low pressure warning doesn't come on until ~26 psi. If nominal pressure is 33 psi, that's a pretty big drop. Just based on temperature, it would take a temperature drop of ~-108 deg F (from 50 deg to -58 deg) to change the pressure from 33 psi to 26 psi.

So, I doubt his problem was due to temperature change, unless his tire was low to start with.

lockery

I am new to this blog. I purchased a new 328i, 4 dr base sedan, while in Germany on Active Duty. I have a lilttle over 40,000 miles on the original Continental ProContact tires, 205-55-16 91H. I am trying to replace the tires. My local tire dealer has told me for several months that Continental ProContact is not available and he has contacted the manufacturer several times and been told that there are no tires and there is no production scheduled. Does this make sense? Also, I keep reading about changing to GFT tires. I would like to put Michelin Primacy MXV4 tires on as replacements. Does the dealer have to make any adjustments to the computer so no alarms come on, or no lights come on? Since the Michelins do not have the TPMS, does the dealer simply install the GFT Michelins without any further adjustments?

shipo

No adjustments necessary, just put the new skins on, have them balanced and away you go.

busiris

Tire pressures, as a rule, decrease 1 psi per 10 degree drop in temperature.

My wife's MINI is far more sensitive to tire pressures than my Z4 or 328i, but it isn't defective.

I would not jump to the conclusion that you have a defective sensor. The best way to determine that is by obtaining a decent quality dial-type tire pressure gauge and checking all 4 tire pressures when the alert lite comes on. It has nothing to do with RFT's...

Your complaint is quite common on many makes with TPS systems...

capriracer

If you are in Germany, you may have encountered some regulations that prevent tire dealers from apply non-approved tires (that is, tires not approved by the vehicle manufacturer). I can easily imagine that BMW would not approve regular tires - and I can easily imagine that a tire dealer over there might have trouble explaining that to someone who is not used to this type of regulation.

But you should be aware that in spite of the economy - or perhaps because the economy is picking up faster than expected - there is a tire shortage taking place. Many popular tires are in short supply. 205/55R16 is an incredibly popular size, so it's not too hard to imagine a shortage.

puffin1

RFT'are :shades: bad for your kidneys. I also put Continentals on my car. It seems that people are catching on. :shades:

puffin1

WHAT IF YOU PUT NITROGEN IN AN ALL SEASON TIRE. DO THINK IT WILL SOLVE tpms PROBLEMS.I ALWAYS CHECK SPARE 1ST.(sorrry for caps) :confuse:

shipo

Nitrogen is a scam and doesn't do anything for tires what-so-ever. Think about it, good old fashioned air is already 78% nitrogen and the best that can be hoped for in a nitrogen treatment for any given tires is about 94% pure.

busiris

I agree completely with shipo. Its pretty much a scam.

In racing conditions, where tire temps get really hot, it might give a slight edge (and racers look for even the slightest edge...), but never for the average street driver. In fact, the removal of moisture during the nitrogen-filling process probably accounts for far more difference than the nitrogen itself...

I would defy anyone to determine whether or not a tire was nitrogen filled or simply standard air filled simply from the behavior of a street tire.

Of course, if you are a tire shop/dealer with $1000's invested in such equipment, you obviously want to sell its "reported advantages".

srs_49

I'm with Shipo and busiris. It's a scam; a solution looking for a problem. Of course if you've got an extra hundred bucks just falling out of your pocket that you need to get rid of... :shades:

rayainsw

FWIW

'While the jury is still out regarding component changes made for the 2011 suspension setup on the U.S. M Sport, there is one thing that stands out from day one; comfort. Gone is the run flat tire induced harsh ride of previous models. This year the run flats and the suspension finally play nice. Even on the cobblestone streets of Germany I found the ride to be immensely better than previous sport packaged 3 series I had driven. This should save some owners from having to invest in new tread right away.'

full review link

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368604

shipo

Even with the suspension upgrades it's still an odds-on bet that the car will ride and handle much better if the tires are swapped out for GFTs.

carchick67

Please excuse my ignorance,, but,, can regular tires be mounted on the rims that have the run-flat tires on them??

shipo

Yes, that is unless you're talking about a Honda or Acura with the PAX system. For BMWs equipped with RFTs from the factory, the tires can be swapped out for GFTs with no worry.

Firebird_EOU

1 month after installing them, tonight I hit a pot hole and heard a loud bang as if I was still in RFT and it tore the sidewall out. I tried the green goo and it didn't fix it. That's when I heard the air noise coming out of the side.
I ended up taping up the side and limped home 2-3 miles but of course it didn't hold. Put on more duck tape but still wouldn't hold.

srs_49

Sidewall damage is generally not repairable, even if it's just a clean puncture.

Did you purchase road hazard protection when you bought the tires?

Never heard of using duck tape on a tire! Surprised that it even held up for the 3 mile trip home.

qali

Hi,
I am considering buying a 2011 328i with Prem package and automatic. Does anyone know what type of RFT's BMW is putting on these days? Is it Continentals or Bridgestones? Should I be worried about a specific brand and if so will the dealer be agreeable to swapping them if I ask?
TIA

Firebird_EOU

DWS comes with Conti's road hazard so it should be covered, just need to know proper way to claim it since I bought it from TireRack.
It was regular clear plastic tape and it didn't really hold, air still leaked out but may be a bit slowly. I will know tomorrow if there's any damage to the wheel.

puffin1

It should be covered. If you bent the wheels ,they are not cheap. Conti's on mine I love. Good luck. Fax them your receipt and the road hazzard ins. Tire Rack will stand by them. :shades: I live in snow country and put my car up for winter. I bought a Golf neat 5cyl. We have had 101 inches of snow and it's only Feb.I should of bought a F150 I can't see to get out of the driveway. :shades: