Hyundai Azera vs Toyota Avalon vs Ford Taurus vs Chevrolet Impala
This is my attempt to set up a comparo between four full size sedans. So let the discussion begin. Does anybody think the new Azera can be a competitior to the Avalon. I think they match up quite evenly in terms of performance but the Hyundai has a lower price and a better warranty. The 500 is a decent car but the engine just doesn't cut it in a 3800lb car.
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It is a good looking car, IMHO. But a little short in some critical areas compared to the Avalon.
Ford announced that the 500 wasn't selling because the public doesn't like the grill, so they are changing it!
How can they miss the point? How could they do all the market research, spend billions on R&D and the manufacturing of an all-new, extremely nice car but forget about the engine? Didn't they drive the competitors? This amazes me. They could have at least installed the Lincoln, Mazda or Jaguar version of the Duratech or better still, offered a V8 as an option.
This is why they are losing money.
And not to veer off topic, but their is an article in Autoweek where a tester comments that the V6 Charger is actually a fun car to drive because of the RWD factor. He points out that the V6 would just be so so in FWD, but is actually a pretty fun car with the RWD set up. Point being, that the V6 Impala, with a different tranny might even be a decent performer were it RWD.
I drove a V6 charger and it was a dog (ruff ruff) no fun to drive at all! :lemon:
That combined with a REALLY cheap interior, I wouldn't spend my money on one.... NO WAY!
And for Autoweek's review, they love almost everything!
As for the HEMI... Now that was fun! :P The interior was still bad though.
sorry to be off-topic....
killerpiece
Now that legendary Toyota quality and customer care has been banished to the history books and the Avalon has moved away from it's roots as a smooth, quiet, soft-riding luxomobile in favor of a more sporting pseudo-euromobile, this leaves the DOOR WIDE OPEN FOR THE AZERA.
I certainly will take a long and hard look at the Azera when my Avalon lease is up, and if the Azera has a quality track record, I'll be a convert.
I agree with the posts about the 500 power, and the Avalon was not at all impressive...rather ugly, in my opinion. The closest comparison to the Impala LTZ seemed to be the Nissan Maxima, but I don't think the Maxima is worth $5,000 more. We liked the Lincoln LS, but again..there is not $15,000 more value in the LS. The only Chrysler that got our interest was the 300C(hemi), but outside of the sweet engine, there is not much we liked....horrible driving position for shorter people. The only problem I have with the LTZ, so far, is keeping the speed down. It is so smooth and quiet, and the engine revs so smoothly, that I have found myself cruising at 80MPH on a couple of occasions. Guess I'm going to have to start using the cruise control. Oh, BTW, the Bose radio in the car is one of the best car radios I've ever heard. Sorry to sound like a Chevy commercial, but this thing is impressive.
Deminin, did you also get the employee discount? I am glad you like the car but maybe a couple of years down the road you can trade it in on an Azera Limited.
Doesn't feel underpowered to me.
And just like I could in my 1996 Taurus wagon, I can STILL out-accelerate 98% of the Corvette drivers on the road. :P
P.S. my '05 Sonata will blow the doors off a Viper too! :P
BTW, we drove it about 600 miles this week to visit the kids in the city for Thanksgiving. It did great, and averaged 26.3 MPG going up...60 to 65 MPH. Coming back, we took the Interstate, and I ran it between 80 and 85 most of the way, and the mileage dropped to 24.2. We had fairly stiff side winds but the car handled quite good. The only time I felt any "wobble" was when passing a big truck at speed...there would be a slight sideways shift as I would clear the truck, and get back into "clean" air, but it was quite manageable.
Depends on who's driving the Viper. Odds are, you'd probably win if you were trying to.
98% of people who buy "sports cars" don't really utilize the power very often, and can be routinely beaten by those with lesser vehicles.
If everybody out there had 3.5L 250hp engines and were using them to their full ability most of the time, then perhaps I'd feel underpowered. But as it stands, I can pretty much get around anybody on the road without making the engine sound like it's going to explode.
Now a Taurus with the non-Duratech 3.0L V6 (150 hp, I think?) . . . now THAT starts to feel underpowered. And then there's my wife's old '79 Mustang with the 4-banger in it. That was downright SCARY to merge into freeway traffic with.
I think that you miss spelled a word. Don't you mean 98% of Chevette drivers on the road.
But then I beat 98% of all drivers on the road, when I'm in the mood to do so.
It's about the driver's will, not the car's ability.
The other 2%? They're just being unsafe. :P
1. almost as good mpg
2. far lower maintenance, no timing belt to screw with.
3. lighter weight than a corresponding ohc engine-- smaller physical size too.
4. A loafing engine that can get 6000-8000 miles on an oil change (it's not cranking that fast).
Would I prefer the Avalon's 3.5? SURE! But in effort to keep costs down and reinvest a bit in interiors (and the Impala's is MUCH improved over the former version), its a fine engine.
~alpha
Doesn't feel underpowered to me.
Well, we DID take a Ford 500 with CVT for an extensive test drive where I put it through the wringer and I can unequivocally say that powerwise, it does indeed leave a LOT to be desired. Even my wife, a very mellow driver, commented on it's lack of power and responsiveness compared to her old car, a '00 Impala LS 3.8 V6 with 95,000 miles on the odometer. While we liked the overall size and appearance of the 500, it was notably underpowered compared to the Avalon Limiteds we were initially interested in. I can also say with absolute surety that the car we ultimately opted for, an '05 Maxima SE, would blow the 500 right off the road in all but the worst driving conditions in which case the 500's AWD would come in handy.
And just like I could in my 1996 Taurus wagon, I can STILL out-accelerate 98% of the Corvette drivers on the road
Not if the Corvette drivers are even trying.
What's her 0-60 time in that thing?
What's your 0-60 time in the Five Hundred?
Be sure to actually TIME it, and give it the gas.
"Not if the Corvette drivers are even trying."
And that was exactly my point.
Am I going to win drag races in a Ford Five Hundred? Nope
Do I have enough power to (safely) get around those who are in my way with one? Yup.
Can I beat 99.9% of the drivers of a Toyota Avalon when I want to with it? Yup.
What the hell is the point of a statement like that? Uhm, yea, a Chevy Aveo at full throttle will no doubt beat a 268 horse Avalon as well if the Avalon driver is using 1/4 pressure on the gas.... its not a testament to power or acceleration at all.
Bottom Line: Even the most expensive Ford Five Hundred is among the slowest in the class. It'll outrun a Kia Amanti and nothing else, save MAYBE for the 3.5L 211 horse base Impala LS, 1LT, 2LT.... but I doubt even that b/c GM's 4 speed is very responsive despite lacking in ratios and the 3.5L has a torque curve that the Duratec can't match from its displacement.
~alpha
The old Avalon's performance left the 500 for dead.
The new Avalon will roast the 500's headlamps in it's afterburners, and then shake the rest of it into shrapnel in the thundering wake of turbulence...
Sorry barnstomer64, I've driven the 500 and you lose on this one. If you drive a new Avalon you'll know what we are talking about!
That's my point, exactly. And you made it for me.
If you have enough power to beat 99% of the drivers on the road . . . you don't really need any more (other than for bragging rights or "racing" in situations that are most-likely unsafe for all involved.)
Now, when you own a car that has to be FLOORED to keep up with the average drivers on the road . . . then you're definitely well into the "underpowered" category.
I guess it all gets down to your definition of "underpowered":
1) Underpowered in terms of drag racing?
2) Underpowered in terms of beating ALMOST EVERY determined driver out there in a true sports car?
3) Underpowered in terms of enough acceleration to get around the vast majority of drivers on the freeway, merging safely, etc?
If you've got to beat every male teen and early 20's driver out there with a sports car, then the Five Hundred might feel underpowered to you. Otherwise, it's nowhere NEAR "underpowered".
A lot of people FEEL that it's underpowered, because of how the CVT works compared to a normal automatic.
With less than 1% of the Avalon drivers at the wheel, sure.
Otherwise, it's down to which driver really wants to get around the other vehicle.
I'd venture to say that the vast majority of Avalon and Five Hundred drivers have lost enough testosterone that they feel the need to get into a race at every opportunity. Most are satisifed to simply be able to get around the idiots drivers on the roads. And either vehicle gives them the power to do just that.
What's her 0-60 time in that thing?
Edmunds say 8.2 seconds for a 2000 Impala LS
What's your 0-60 time in the Five Hundred?
Edmunds says 8.93 seconds for a 2005 Ford Five Hundred Limited w/AWD & CVT
Be sure to actually TIME it, and give it the gas.
Bleh. We already drove the car and felt it with the seat of our pants. Believe me, if even my wife notes a lack of power, it's readily apparent. When literally EVERY review notes the cars lack of power compared to it's competitors, that should probably tell you something, too. And where we really missed the power in the Five Hundred wasn't in jack rabbit starts and 0-60 times, but at highway speed when we punched it to see what kind of passing power it has. This is where we felt the Maxima really shineseven moreso than the Avalon. Not only is the car at least 2.5 seconds faster than the Five Hundred in 0-60, but it pulls hard all the way to 6500rpm and the passing power is phenomenal. It's just plain FUN to drive. (Probably a good thing it's the wife's primary car. I'd have a ticket by now. :P )
"Not if the Corvette drivers are even trying."
And that was exactly my point.
Am I going to win drag races in a Ford Five Hundred? Nope
Do I have enough power to (safely) get around those who are in my way with one? Yup.
Can I beat 99.9% of the drivers of a Toyota Avalon when I want to with it? Yup.
Yes, the Five Hundred has adequate power to safely drive and manuever in modern traffic. No one is disputing that. Yeah, you will probably beat my 70 year old parents and their Avalon to the next stoplight. I'm not exactly sure what bragging rights that gives anyone. I guess it boils down to whether one wants to settle for merely adequate or go for ample in the power department.
By the way, we kept that '00 Impala LS as a work car for myself. So I suppose I'll be able to thrash those Five Hundreds in either the Maxima or the old beater. :P
The Five Hundred could be such a better car if Ford would just give it the heart it deserves.
I also drove both the 500 and Avalon and there is simply no comparison between two cars. Avalon is much faster and much quieter. The engine is much smoother in Avalon. I did like the trunk in 500 and I thought that 500 was more solid car. I also liked the inside of a 500 better. Ford 500 is also much cheaper. You can pick one up in Atlanta for under $20K. Avalon is at least $6-8K more then a 500. Its almost not fair to compare the two cars because they are in a different price range. I have not test driven a GM car in 10 years. One GM car was enougth to last me a life time.
Ford 500 with the new 3.5L will be a great car, but right now its underpowered. Even Ford admits that they released 500 and Freestyle with current 3.0l engine because the development of 3.5L engine was behind schedule.
The Impala, Pontiac, 500, and even the 300 not even in the same class as the Av and probably the Azera!
Well, at least we know you're not biased. LOL
"Edmunds says 8.93 seconds for a 2005 Ford Five Hundred Limited w/AWD & CVT "
And this site
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Spec_Glance.aspx?year=2005&make=Ford&model=Five%20Hundre- d&trimid=-1
Says 7.6 seconds for the SEL with CVT (no AWD)
And this site
http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/New/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/38122/Act/Roadtest?print=- yes/
says 7.5 seconds for the AWD / CVT combo
And this site
http://www.automarketreview.com/1112504.shtml
says "That said, it actually doesn't perform as lethargically as the power numbers suggest (7.5 to 8.5 second 0-60 times, depending on AWD and tranny)"
And MotorTrend
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0411_hd_500ford/index2.html
says 7.5 (fwd); 8.0 (awd)
"Yeah, you will probably beat my 70 year old parents and their Avalon to the next stoplight. I'm not exactly sure what bragging rights that gives anyone."
$20 says I'll beat at least 90% of those my age driving one, too. Why? They bought the car for status, not to actually use the driving performance capabilities.
"What's Hot
• Voluminous interior space, nice appointments
• Refined, well-controlled handling
• Sharp steering, good brakes
What's Not
• Engine sadly underspec'd
• Fit and finish not yet up to the best Japanese/German standards
• Styling not for everyone"
$20 says I'll beat at least 90% of those my age driving one, too. Why? They bought the car for status, not to actually use the driving performance capabilities.
Do you not understand that you are not "beating" someone who isn't even trying? Avalon drivers must thoroughly humiliate every Five Hundred they encounter lest they be deemed mere status seekers? Have you even driven a new Avalon and seen how much more refined and better equipped it is than a Five Hundred? We certainly know that people are not buying Five Hundreds for their performance capabilities.
Dang, the next time I manage to out-accelerate a Five Hundred or any other new car from a stoplight in my 23 year old 82hp CJ8 I'll have to remind myself what a great driver I am and how competitive my Jeep is.
I wouldn't want to buy a first year edition of any Korean car considering their reputation. Aren't they having a fire sale on the XG350 now?
I have had two Tauri, a 1990 stripped Vulcan LX that served me well for ten years and 100K miles. This car for it's time handled and drove very well and never developed any squeeks or rattles.
My current 2000 SES Duratec is at 56K and has been rock solid, handles well. Yes you can call it blah and a rental car and the usual press cliches, but it is solid and well built. Furthermore I bought it new out the door for $18K. You couldn't find any V-6 CamCord for anywhere near that price at the time, and still can't find one even near $20K today.
Avalon is pushing into luxury car prices, and well it should with all the bells and whistles they have loaded onto even the base model. If you compared more on comparable price ranges, then Toyota, Honda and Nissan don't really have much to offer anymore, as Maxima and Avalon have priced themselves into the luxury ranges these days, and Honda has nothing to compete against the Five-hundred in the large car, reasonably low price market.
"Hyundai last week said its new Azera full-size sedan would be priced very competitively with the Ford Five Hundred, Nissan Maxima and Toyota Avalon, its prime competition. The Azera SE -- with standard 263-hp, 3.8-liter V6; eight airbags; stability control; and a five-speed automatic -- will retail from $24,995, Hyundai says. The Limited model will be priced from $27,495 with added equipment like a CD changer and foglamps; and the Ultimate Package on the Azera Limited with leather trim and other features brings the price of that model to $29,995. The Azera goes on sale late this year, but Hyundai will be advertising the vehicle heavily in the beginning of 2006 as more vehicles arrive in showrooms."
Click here to see the newsletter itself.
Hyundai is putting together attractive products. It's surprising how fast Hyundai has changed its offerings.
Also, I can feel a difference between an Accord I4 5A and a Camry I4 5A, two cars separated in acceleration by about half a second to 60.
~alpha
Really, how many time does the average driver put the pedal to the floor from 0-60, or even get the opportunity to do that? Almost never. Thus, whether your car gets to 60 in 8 seconds 6 is 99% of the time not important, if people were honest enough to admit it.
The HP wars have gotten ridiculous. I am old enough to have owned a 1977 Buick Century with a 350 cubic inch 2 barrel V-8 that was slower than even my 1990 Vulcan Taurus and had not much better than 1/2 the fuel efficiency. Now I own a 2000 Duratec equipped Taurus that has about more guts than anyone really needs for everyday driving, and the Five Hundred with either the six speed or CVT is just about as quick as my lighter weight Taurus.
I consider the world I drive to be just as real as anyone elses and even in my daily driving I can definitely tell the difference between our 265hp Maxima and our 200hp Impala. I don't have to put the pedal to the floor to both notice and appreciate the difference, either. The Maxima is so much stronger, smoother, and has a sweet exhaust note. Both cars get roughly the same fuel economy, so why wouldn't I want the one that can be funner to drive? I suppose that if one is numbered among those poor souls stuck in mindnumbing, bumper to bumper stop and go traffic day in and day out then they might not appreciate the difference in performance. Then again, they probably also would not perceive the added benefits of full independent suspension, 4 wheel disk brakes, etc.