Nice list. I think the '66 Tempest coupe is actually a bit cleaner than the LeMans--it doesn't have that big chrome molding on the taillight panel--but they're all great designs, especially the GTO's mailslot taillights.
The '73 Mach I is an interesting choice. I was watching Diamonds Are Forever last Saturday night and there was James Bond driving a red early '70s Mach I (with whitewalls). Nice chase scene.
I'm not that interested in pre-war cars but this one has some intriguing lines. I guess the flathead V12 was a miserable engine but the transmission had nice close ratios.
I noticed that early on in this discussion someone nominated the '65 Corvair 4 door hardtop. Lovely things, and about the best-handling series production car of their time. I once asked Don Yenko what he did to the chassis to make his Stingers handle so well. He claimed that all he did was replace the stock shocks with Konis, the stock brake linings with metallics, wider wheels, racing tires, and that was it. Original springs, bushings, geometry, and they'd outcorner race prepared 2 liter 911s.
Has anyone suggested the Lotus M-14 (that's the original Elite, with fiberglass monocoque and 1216 Climax) or the Lola Sport (Lotus 11/15/17 killer) or (only a slight stretch) the Reliant Scimitar coupe (not the GTE) as great beauties?
...called the Charles Townabout? Supposedly it was a cross of VW Karmann Ghia with DeSoto tailfins grafted on. I have an old auto encyclopedia that mentioned it, in a brief blurb, but never saw a pic. Sounds intriguing, though!
sppedshift, YOU think it worked on an Alpine I think the fact that you can still buy a beater Alpine for about 50 cents says that the public has rendered its verdict; however, if you want to have fun in an old droptop for cheap, it's not a bad car. Just don't be nuts enough to restore one, unless this is certified therapy to keep you out of prison.
was pretty awkward, I thought -- kinda femmy, although it was a pleasant looking car from the A-pillar forward. I did like the series 2, though -- they pretty much eliminated the fins, greatly improving the proportions of the car. (That's the one they used for the Tiger).
as the most attractive compact. I know, the competition isn't too stiff, but this one is clean and it's not a clean sheet design like the others, just a restyled '58 sedan.
Funny -- reminds me of my first car, which my next door neighbor friend's dad gave us to tool around in. It was a Studebaker Lark station wagon, kind of a beige color, and it had seen better days. But it was freedom for two 16-year-olds, and we did have fun in that pelican....
...was that it offered a hardtop body style (didn't they have convertibles too?) before the Big Three competition. The Corvair didn't have a hardtop until '65. I think the first Valiant/Lancer hardtop was in '61, and the first Chevy II was '62. Not sure about the Falcon though. My guess though, is that the Rambler probably beat everyone to the compact hardtop market.
Full-size hardtop, most definitely not. My folks bought a 56 Pontiac Star Chief designated by GM as a "Convertible hardtop" in 1957, and I imagine Chevy, Oldsmobile and Pontiac had the same thing in 1955, if not before.
...yeah, that's what I meant, compact hardtop. The earliest big hardtops I've seen were '46-48 era Chrysler woodies, convertibles that just had a permanent metal top attached. I think they only made a handful of them each year. GM had the first mass-produced hardtops for 49, but I think it was only Buick and Olds that had 'em.
For the most part though, Detroit looked at compacts as just cheap, economy throwaway cars, so I guess that's why hardtops were a rarity in those markets, at least until compacts in general gained in popularity.
Strangely enough, the '95-99 Neon was still considered a hardtop! They called it a "pillared hardtop", which is a contradiction if I ever heard one! The Chrysler R-body was classified as this too. In fact, they even have their own code in the serial # for it! "41" meant 4-door hardtop, "43" meant 4-door sedan, and then in '79 they came up with "42" for the "pillared hardtop" nonsense, which is really just a 4-door sedan with frameless windows.
Yes, the Lark hardtop came out the first year, 1959. And you're right, the first generation Corvair didn't have a hardtop, although it had a convertible from 1962. The Falcon Futura hardtop came out in 1963.
The 1949 Cadillac Coupe de Ville, if I'm not mistaken, along with the aforementioned Buick and Olds derivatives (Roadmaster and 98, I assume).
Andre, 'pillared hardtops' are nothing new. Cadillac made Sedan de Villes and Calais in '65-70 that would qualify (no door frames, but 'B' pillars present), and Ford sold lots of four-door Galaxies, LTDs, Mercurys and Lincolns from about '70 (for the Continental) to '78 as 'pillared hardtops'. I don't get it either.
...is actually kinda cool. NOT exactly beautiful, but still kinda cool. The front-end makes me think of a '57 Chrysler grille mated to a '58 Pontiac. The way the crease over the front wheel well carries over to the grille is also definitely Mopar-ish.
As for "pillared hardtops", I don't mind them if the windows at least roll down all the way. But when the windows are still partially up, and you slam the door, it just gives me the impression that the window would be easy to break. A few years back, I did see a guy slam the door on his mid-70's Lincoln sedan, and the window shattered into a million fragments!
Andre, you are too, too kind. The car is a mutt, let's face it. It's a totally tortured design from top to bottom. Looks like a madman designed it. It went over like a lead balloon in 1958 and I don't think it's improved any. Hideous car to my eyes. It's painful to look at.
RE: 2-door Hardtops --Most auto historians award the "1st pillarless hardtop" to the 1949 Buick Riviera I think the biggest problem with them was not windows breaking but the rattles they would produce. Also I think the safety issue in rollovers killed off that design for a time.
Well, the Lark's cartainly no beauty, but at least it's proportional and functional enough, and the two halves of the car look the same. It's "coherent" to my eye. The '58 looks like people just started gluing parts on.
While the '58 Stude makes me think of a '57 Chrysler, the '58 Packard looks like a horribly disfigured '58 DeSoto! But from the back, it looks like they have two sets of fins grafted on, one over top of the other. And to make the 4-headlight setup, they had to literally graft a little pod onto the side of the front fender so the wider headlight opening would fit!
I think we might've dissected this car earlier in the Ugly Cars forum, because I remember remarking that the dashboard was actually quite attractive, compared to the rest of the car!
Yes, the first hardtops produced rattles. Now it's fifty-odd years on and sans any hardtops, American cars still have them (-:. Anyway, hardtops were all the rage from '49 (Buick Riv, Cadillac CDV) til at least the mid-60s, and they existed in pure form til the mid-70s. In spite of your speculation (or maybe it's fact?) of their bad rollover tests (if those were even conducted then? If so, lemme know), there was never a point at which any safety issues 'killed off that design for a time'. Hardtops went 'whole hog' from '49 on.
Really I don't know but given the much stricter passenger compartment requirements of the mid 70s on up, it seems that the disappearance of convertibles and hardtops about that time was not a total coincidence. This is not to say that safety alone killed these designs (American convertibles were not longer made because nobody bought them, is the main reason), but I'm sure the new safety regulations mitigated the decision to eliminate what was undoubtedly a costly design to build. Also rattles and leaks were certainly an issue.
But to come up with any one reason--I don't know--I don't really have one.
The back windows in the 8-series BMWs did roll down; I remember seeing one, and remember it because that's was something I'd always wondered about 'em. Now I don't remember if they rolled down all the way. They might have stuck up a little. And I'm almost positive I've seen this thing with the back windows rolled down...
As for why hardtops and convertibles disappeared, I think air conditioning and downsizing did them in more than any roll over standards that might have been enacted. However, GM did away with hardtops and convertibles in their midsize lineup for '73 in response to proposed government regulations that were never enacted. I guess it was a rare case of GM moving too fast for a change? ;-)
As tthe '70's moved on, cars were moving in directions that were making it harder and harder to accommodate hardtop and convertible body styles. First, hardtops usually aren't as roomy inside as their more upright pillared counterparts. I remember a Consumer Reports test around 1972 where they had an Olds Delta and a Buick LeSabre, among other cars. I forget which was which, but one was a hardtop and one was 4-door hardtop and one was a pillared sedan, and the one with the pillar had more room inside (headroom mainly, I think).
Later in the '70's, cars got taller too, with more glass area, but at the same time, smaller doors. It just got to the point that there wasn't anyplace for that window glass to roll down into. In those downsized B-bodies, GM could hardly get the sedan windows to roll down 1/2 way (even with the help of a spacer window), so just imagine how awkward it would've been to design a hardtop!
As for window glass being a structural "agent", I've heard that it'll help a little bit in a rollover if the windows are all the way up, versus rolled down. I'm sure the effects aren't that great, but every little bit helps.
I beleive on modern Unibody cars, the front windshield is a structural piece. Naturally, it's not going to take on near the load steel does, but it does offer some rigidity to the structure that would have to be taken up by steel otherwise, and since you're going to have a windshield anyway, why not use it and save a little bit of weight. Sure, eleminating a few ounces of steel from each car might not save much per unit, but you add it up over the production life of the car, and it really adds up bigtime.
drove by a local repair shop today. They had a 50ish/early 60s Jag out front front (maybe a mark II? The real curvey sedan). Other than the major lower body rust (you could see the body panels curning up form 50 feet away, through a chain link fence while driving by0, a very nice looking car, even if it was painted poo poo brown.
Would tend to agree. I think the 427s look a little over the top and of course they really are way way over the top. That's a big part of their appeal to many. But the smallblocks look more classic to me.
The Porsche 959 was the most graceful car I have ever seen. However I grew up watching the Transformers and lusting after 3rd gen F-bodies in the 80's. Still the 959 was striking in my opinion. Very smooth......even without the incredible technology under the hood...er trunk/undercarriage.
Gota go with an 87 GNX...at twilight with the running lamps only...hunkered down and twitching in anticipation....all the Regals were sharp if they were kept up, but the GNs and GNXs were tops.
Comments
Volvo 122s. Neat and clean design.
66 Pontiac LeMans Coupe
51 MG TD
50 Chevy Hardtop Coupe
49 Olds Rocket 88 Coupe
69 Z-28 Camaro
73 Mach 1 Mustang
67 Mustang Convertible
59 Austin Healy 100-6 two place roadster
56 Corvette
Fastback 60s series Mustangs
Mercedes SSK Roadsters - Mid 1930s version
39 Mercury 4 door convertible
The '73 Mach I is an interesting choice. I was watching Diamonds Are Forever last Saturday night and there was James Bond driving a red early '70s Mach I (with whitewalls). Nice chase scene.
http://www.cedep.net/~makdecont/streamliner/buickYjob39ter.jpg
http://www.cedep.net/~makdecont/streamliner/lincolnzephyrcoup37.jpg
http://www.cedep.net/~makdecont/streamliner/lincolncosmo49bis.jpg
http://wwwsg.daimlerchrysler.com/vMuseum/Galerie/zzm_Typ230SL_1963_67.jpg
Of course, another of my all time favorites, and you can still buy it...
http://www.rolls-royceandbentley.co.uk/bentley/picture_gallery/bentley_4.jpg
Yeah, it's got a decent interior, I guess...
http://www.rolls-royceandbentley.co.uk/bentley/picture_gallery/contrint_a.jpg
Another beautiful car...
http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/XJC_V12.JPG
I think jag should still build 2-door XJ8-type cars... can you imagine the XJR in a 2 door version? I'd buy it on the spot...
Has anyone suggested the Lotus M-14 (that's the original Elite, with fiberglass monocoque and 1216 Climax) or the Lola Sport (Lotus 11/15/17 killer) or (only a slight stretch) the Reliant Scimitar coupe (not the GTE) as great beauties?
Seriously, though, I'd go with the original Jaguar E-Type and Volvo P1800, both introduced in 1961.
Tail fins on a sports car? Well, if you really gotta have 'em...
http://www.ritzsite.demon.nl/Lark/Lark3.htm
Also available with a V8 before the others.
http://www.motorbase.com/picture/pid/-521300970.html
For the most part though, Detroit looked at compacts as just cheap, economy throwaway cars, so I guess that's why hardtops were a rarity in those markets, at least until compacts in general gained in popularity.
Strangely enough, the '95-99 Neon was still considered a hardtop! They called it a "pillared hardtop", which is a contradiction if I ever heard one! The Chrysler R-body was classified as this too. In fact, they even have their own code in the serial # for it! "41" meant 4-door hardtop, "43" meant 4-door sedan, and then in '79 they came up with "42" for the "pillared hardtop" nonsense, which is really just a 4-door sedan with frameless windows.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1816235620&r=0&t=0
What a bargain for $3,000.
Woof! woof!
Andre, 'pillared hardtops' are nothing new. Cadillac made Sedan de Villes and Calais in '65-70 that would qualify (no door frames, but 'B' pillars present), and Ford sold lots of four-door Galaxies, LTDs, Mercurys and Lincolns from about '70 (for the Continental) to '78 as 'pillared hardtops'. I don't get it either.
As for "pillared hardtops", I don't mind them if the windows at least roll down all the way. But when the windows are still partially up, and you slam the door, it just gives me the impression that the window would be easy to break. A few years back, I did see a guy slam the door on his mid-70's Lincoln sedan, and the window shattered into a million fragments!
RE: 2-door Hardtops --Most auto historians award the "1st pillarless hardtop" to the 1949 Buick Riviera I think the biggest problem with them was not windows breaking but the rattles they would produce. Also I think the safety issue in rollovers killed off that design for a time.
http://islandtime.com/autogallery/packard-58.htm
While the '58 Stude makes me think of a '57 Chrysler, the '58 Packard looks like a horribly disfigured '58 DeSoto! But from the back, it looks like they have two sets of fins grafted on, one over top of the other. And to make the 4-headlight setup, they had to literally graft a little pod onto the side of the front fender so the wider headlight opening would fit!
I think we might've dissected this car earlier in the Ugly Cars forum, because I remember remarking that the dashboard was actually quite attractive, compared to the rest of the car!
But to come up with any one reason--I don't know--I don't really have one.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
As for why hardtops and convertibles disappeared, I think air conditioning and downsizing did them in more than any roll over standards that might have been enacted. However, GM did away with hardtops and convertibles in their midsize lineup for '73 in response to proposed government regulations that were never enacted. I guess it was a rare case of GM moving too fast for a change? ;-)
As tthe '70's moved on, cars were moving in directions that were making it harder and harder to accommodate hardtop and convertible body styles. First, hardtops usually aren't as roomy inside as their more upright pillared counterparts. I remember a Consumer Reports test around 1972 where they had an Olds Delta and a Buick LeSabre, among other cars. I forget which was which, but one was a hardtop and one was 4-door hardtop and one was a pillared sedan, and the one with the pillar had more room inside (headroom mainly, I think).
Later in the '70's, cars got taller too, with more glass area, but at the same time, smaller doors. It just got to the point that there wasn't anyplace for that window glass to roll down into. In those downsized B-bodies, GM could hardly get the sedan windows to roll down 1/2 way (even with the help of a spacer window), so just imagine how awkward it would've been to design a hardtop!
As for window glass being a structural "agent", I've heard that it'll help a little bit in a rollover if the windows are all the way up, versus rolled down. I'm sure the effects aren't that great, but every little bit helps.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Just a litle info for who would want it.....
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/lancia/58/959/959_9.htm
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93