I think you will need the rear sway bar. Yours is still a full size camper with a fair amount of weight up high.
I haven't found the rear sway bar to be needed on my 2500 with a lightweight popup camper - but it was needed with the same camper on a 1500.
I have the Hellwig sway bar I took off my 1500 (in case I needed it on the 2500) and I'll sell it for 1/2 price. If you are local, I'll even help you install it.
Just got back from the Washington Coast, near the mouth of the Columbia River, it was good kite flying weather. Before I left I went to Les Schwabb and had them put a set of air bags on my 99 Dakota, with the camper on it leveled it out beautifully and the handling improved greatly. There was about 40 miles of twisty 45 MPH road and had no problems keeping up with traffic either up or down hills or around right or left sweeping corners, even had to pass a person or two, all in all it was a joy to drive, although only averaged about 12.7 mpg but have accepted that as the norm with the camper on. Was running about 65psi in the bags and close to 50psi in the tires (maximum). Camper 8.0 Slumber Queen is perfect for the wife and I as far as space goes although I did come to the conclusion that there is no isolator in the wiring harness to the truck, we had no hook ups and went "dry camping" although filled up the water tank at the camp ground, must have spent enough time with the lights on to run both batteries down somewhat as when it was time to leave the truck chugged briefly while starting, I think I'll just disconnect the camper next time. This is a really nice state park with some sites 100 ft from the beach and would like to go back sometime during one of our infamous fall/winter storms storms anybody heard of a truck and camper blowing over in say 60-70mph gusts, now driving there may be a different story.
I managed to snap a few pictures at the off-road park Mike and I visited. Here we are at the top of the world after climbing up a narrow trail in 4-low.
And this is in camp later that night. Mike has the popup, I have the stars.
I recommend the sway bar for sure. It is exactly the right thing to help with a heavy and top heavy load. You could wait on the bags and shocks if you want. As campers go your's is fairly light so you don't require the bags but they would be nice. The truck will sit about level or a little below with the camper on. The bags allow you to adjust for headlight aim and optimum handling but try it first and see what you think. The bags also give a few inches of level adjustment for in the campground use.
The shocks will likely be overloaded. My truck was pretty floaty with the stock shocks. I put Edelbrock IAS shocks on and it's only a little better. Rancho 9000s are probably the way to go.
That sounds like a nice trip. You must add an isolator between batteries. Otherwise you'll end up out in some remote campground someday with no way to start your truck. Unhooking the camper each time is a hassle. Just do the work once and you never have to think about it again. The simplest method is a mechanical relay, about $20 in a RV store. Even if you pay someone to install it I would guess it would only run $60 or so for labor.
Mike, thanks for the offer on the bar, but I'm up in the Seattle area.
Vince, I just spoke with Hellwig customer service, and they now have a new bar available specifically for the 2000 model year; same part number as before (7634) but you have to be sure to specify "new style" in order to differentiate it from the one for the 1999 models. Also, as you've already found out, the "old" bar doesn't quite fit the Y2K models.
I'm going to go ahead and get both the bar and air-bags at the same time. A co-worker has a Bigfoot (got it free from from his Dad, dang it! How come I can never get any of those types of things for free?) on his F350 SD with camper package (includes sway-bar). After I told him about everything I'd read here and on HappyCampers about the air-bags, he had them installed. After his first trip with the bags, he came in to work all round-eyed and said "Wow! Those things really make a difference! Cross-winds, curves, nothing bothers it now!"
When you install the air bags, be sure and run independent air lines for each bag. You can plumb them together, but it will cause problems.
With them plumbed together, when you go around a corner the outside bag gets more weight and compresses more. That will transfer air to the inside bag and cause more lean, more weight transfer, more air transfer, etc. When the bags are separate, none of that air transfer takes place and you get the benifits of the system.
Mike, I'm going to pull a "ryanbab" (see the Silverado forums) and have a local shop install 'em for me; also, I'll be getting the dual in-cab control for the air-bags.
My co-worker has independent-line bags installed, but the installer only took the lines to the wheel wells; must be the only location mentioned in the Firstone instructions or something. When I mentioned your setup of running the lines to license frame area on the rear bumper, he smacked his head. When I mentioned the in-cab control, he said "I didn't even know about it or I would have asked for it." Thanks to guys like you, I've found tons of great info here on Edmunds and over at HappyCampers.
You mentioned Firestone so I guess you are buying that brand. When I looked they had a compressor kit that included a tank. It's a nice one but is expensive ($300+) and is more than needed for this application. I don't know if they offer a cheaper kit. I bought the Air Lift light duty dual gauge kit for around $150. The compressor is a bit slow but does the job. Here is a picture of the controller.
I went to the Four Wheel camper site yesterday and priced a camper with the options I would want. It came to $9,100. Wow, that's a bit pricey for a rather minimum unit. And that doesn't include the $495 Arctic Insulation package (Velcro attached foam sheets).
As you can see in Vince's picture of the air bag controller and gauges, he is one pedal short of a full set.
Vince, 4 Wheel Campers are not cheap. But, they are lighter and stronger than the competition. In retrospect, I would rather have a 4 Wheel Camper. But, I'm not unhappy with the one I have. Phoenix Campers are about $2000 less - when you figure you don't have to pay sales tax.
We had them make our camper shorter, narrower and with reduced height, it wound up with the same dimensions as a 4 Wheel Camper. Unlike the 4 Wheel people, they are open to specials.
On the popup front, thanks for the link Mike. It got me looking all over the web. I found several Palominos, looks to be a budget unit not marketed to the off-road crowd. It's probably good enough though. I'll keep looking.
Does anyone have the Air Lift system that Camping World sells? I'm thinking of getting a set and wondered how they were compared to the other brands. Thanks
You might want to check out the SunLite's. I have the Eagle SB and really like it. Loaded weight is about 1400 lbs. with AC.I paid $5,ooo for it new at the end of 99 after the 00's came out. I take it on the beach all the time and have had no problems with it. Gets pretty rough out there at times.
Air Lift and Firestone appear to be pretty much the same. I've never heard of any problem with either one. I choose Air Lift because it was offered by more distributors and I wanted the A.L. compressor kit. I'd choose based on price and availability, Jegs sells the A.L. for a great price. The only other brand I've seen is Hellwig and they are just rebranded Firestones.
Why don't you give us a picture of your Sun-Lite camper. You can e-mail it to me for posting. I found a used SunLite which sounds good but it's a 6hr drive away.
Thanks for the information. We are leaving either Mon. or Tues. for a few days in the mountains. I have no way of scanning pictures, but I could send some to you if you would Email me your address. Mine is Oltrol @webtv.net. I plan on getting the bags when we get back. Its an 8 hr trip one way to the Camping World store. We are not close to anything here.
You can get my e-mail address by clicking on my user name. I hope you checked Camping World stock before going, I would think they would have to order your bags.
7893 miles since June 4th, total engine time 166.5 hrs. Avg mph 47.4. Dodge 2500 2wd quad cab, long bed, Cummins with the camper package. Sunlite pop top, 10 foot camper. Top milage per tank 15.6 lowest 13. Worst milage 75mph against brisk headwind for an instantaneous mpg of around 11.
Against that wind we were drag limited at about 80mph. At that speed it blew the vinyl strip out of the aluminum channel up front and made a short rip in the aluminum exterior inspection door for the Dometic. Obviously the diesel is stronger than aluminum. On the other hand it was comforting to be able to move with the rest of the traffic, something we would have had trouble doing with the Ford 250 we sold this spring. The quad cab was a big improvement in comfort and wind noise. We do not have air bags and, though with this rig we are right up to GVWR - 8800lbs - we were very happy with the ride and balance. Even the tilted slab concrete through the midwest was not a problem on this trip. The turbo makes a real statement about itself when we get up to 10,000ft or so.
Not as many states as mledtje covered in about the same miles. The Pakboat canoe traveled behind the drivers seat in its duffle bag and expanded to 17 feet for trips on the Wild and Scenic portion of the Niobrara, Nebraska, the Fraser River in Colorado, Desolation Canyon on the Green River in Utah, and the Payette River in Idaho. We were in rubber duckies (inflatable kayaks) for our trip on the Middle Fork of the Salmon. About 300 river miles all together.
We took the unpaved road down into Echo Park in Dinosaur National Monument, a fine camper trip if you don't mind dust. It crosses and recrosses several dry washes that may become impassable to 4wd if it rains. It has been wisely decided not to put culverts under the road at the washes. They don't last as evidence at a couple of spots demonstrates. At the bottom there is a new campground (dry camping) on the Green River with fine views of Steamship Rock and with a short walk to the lovely spot where the Yampa joins the Green.
We also drove from Sunbeam to Challis Idaho on the gravel road along the Yankee Fork of the Salmon. The portion just north of Sunbeam up to Bonanza has been worked over by a gold dredge and is devastated, but above Custer the country is great. There are lots of two tracks going down to nice spots along the river. We pulled into one of them and had a fine night. About 35 miles and with the lodgepoles hanging low over the road it is probably much better suited to pop tops than to hard sides as one approaches the top of the pass.Blawless, I see you were at Stanly ID just after we were there. Did you go on the Yankee Fork?
We also drove the Warm Springs Road up to the top of Lemhi pass and then went down the east side into Montana. This allowed us to visit the spot where Merriweather Lewis decided that he had found the source of the Missouri River. Looking west from the top of the pass into a country just filled with snow capped mountains, you can certainly see why he was discouraged about his trip to the Pacific.
There is now a small park there where we had lunch and where we stood with one foot on each side of the embryonic river. This unpaved road is closed from time to time but a sign is posted at the bottom if the pass is closed.
In order to make Brutus feel better about his loose battery connections, I will confess our one big mistake on our trip. I pulled the propane bottle from its compartment to fill it and carried it up to the propane pump, leaving our truck parked some distance away because a 40 foot rig was filling its water tank and took up space near the propane pump. After filling it, I left it on the curb and went in to pay for it. Meanwhile the 40 footer pulled away. My wife, wanting to help, pulled our truck up to the propane pump not realizing that I had left the door to the propane compartment leaning against the truck. She ran over the door while doing so. I came out, to find the door crushed but presumably salvageable with some work with the pliers, but I couldn't find the knurled bolt that secured the door. With dread, I asked my wife to back up a few inches and there it was buried in the tread of the 265/75 R16 load range E tire. I painted it with the soap and water and it was blowing large bubbles.
The Dodge spare drops with a nice cable winch arrangement. The crank for this is accessed above the license plate holder, and is, of course, completely blocked by the gray water tank on our camper. I had brought along a vise grip and had tested it before we left to see if I could turn the shaft with it while lying under the truck. I never thought I would find myself doing this, however. I won't tell the rest of the story - it is too painful, except to say that a week later after straightening the door and reinstalling it, we shook it off on the washboard to our camping spot in the Grand Targhee. We found it on our way out the next day but the knurled bolt was gone. That door may have caused TWO flats! If it was one of you guys, I sincerely apologize. I got a new door in Rock Springs, WY.
Now we are unpacked and the camper is put away. Great trip, and a wonderful way to travel.
How do you people get the bugs off of the camper. Just returned from a 5300 mi trip from NW WI to NW WA and my camper is full...I mean full of bugs on the front. Is there any easy way to remove them W/O dislocating my shoulders?
Stabbur - Great trip. Thanks for the trip report and ideas on roads to visit.
Satch - The best way to get rid of bugs is to drive in a heavy rain for a couple of hours. Next best way is to wet a towel (or 6 towels) and drape across the bugs. Keep it wet overnight, and the next day the critters will clean off easier. Another trick that will make cleanup easier: Before a long trip, put a heavy coat of wax on the front surface, but do not remove it. Then the wax under the bugs makes them easier to remove.
What a great trip. I guess you are somewhat of a river rat huh? Your trip was almost 2 months, what a treat to have so much available time. How did the popup do in the weather? Did you hit any cold or moist areas that gave you trouble? Did you already know where you wanted to go or did you just wander about going wherever looked good? I love that kind of trip, no pressure and always the potential of something neat around the corner.
A Scotch Bright pad works well on bugs and black streaks. Use it with plenty of soap as a lubricant and don't scrub too hard as it is a little abrasive. It's a real labor saver.
I have found a floor scrubbing brush (the kind that you use on your knees - it has a wooden back and nylon bristles) plus soap very helpful in removing the bugs.
As most of you know the east has been as wet this year as the west has been dry. On our way west we had heavy rains when we camped just west of Cleveland. Stopped at the Crystal Lake Campground in severe gusting wind, lightning/thunder and rain. A person with stunning blonde hair, an impressive bosom, and lots of makeup directed us to an empty parking area as far from I 90 as possible. Since we had a person killed last year in Vermont when a windstorm dropped a tree on his motor home, I picked a spot away from the thrashing cottonwoods. I filled out no paperwork and my $20 cash will probably never show up in any account. I also noted that she/he had coarse features and the husky voice of a male. This was definitely not a Good Sam type of camping area.
The interstate noise was terrible but nothing compared to the main line of Conrail that went by across the small pond. Those intermodal freights hauling semis and containers must travel at 70mph and they run about 30 minutes apart. Sounded like they were coming right through the camper. We awoke time after time with hearts pounding. It poured cold rain all night long.
We slept in our lightweight down bags and were warm. Because of the severe weather we had the vents and the windows closed, except for the Jalousy side window we left cracked. I worried that the gusts, must have been 40-50 mph would take the pop top right off the camper and send it across the pond, but it stayed.
We had enough condensation by morning so that the windows in the pop top were pretty well fogged and the front of the pop top was quite damp. I spread a small nylon tarp over the bed before folding the top down so that the mattress and sheet would stay dry. That tarp is a good thing to have in a pop top. I also tie it to the boat rack on the top to make an awning for sun or rain. We stake it out with recycled aluminum ski poles. Just pull the hand grips off them by sliding them forcibly through a partially opened vise and remove the baskets the same way. Then put the small end of one inside the large end of another to make tarp poles of various lengths. You can add a third if needed. Cut down the basket and use the resulting donut for the top of the pole to hold the tarp and line. Every ski shop has bent ski poles they don't know what to do with.
When we got this pop top in 1995 the front weatherstrip between the pop top and the main camper leaked when we drove fast in heavy rain. We bought some aftermarket auto weatherstrip and put another layer in that opening and have had no trouble since, despite driving through some heavy rain at highway speeds.
The coldest temp we encountered was the first night on the Middle Fork of the Salmon River. It had rained hard on the first afternoon out, but then cleared to a beautiful evening. We woke up the morning of July 4th with frost on the tent fly, vegetation, and river bags. The water in our drinking water bottles that were next to the packs was not frozen, so I would put the low temperature that morning at 30-32. This campsite was at about 6000 ft elevation. In the camper I would have turned on the furnace. On the river I tell myself that the sun will soon be in the canyon and I adapt. After a couple of days out eating breakfast with the temp around 45 degrees seems very comfortable. (I loaned my gloves to a gal from Tennessee who was adapting more slowly, however.)
The hottest we encountered was 106 degrees just east of Valentine Nebraska. When we camped an hour later at Smith Falls State Park it was still blistering hot in the sun where the campsites are located. Fortunately, the Niobrara runs east and west in a steep valley and the north facing slope of the valley has plenty of vegetation. A foot bridge crosses the river here and you can walk to the base of the falls in a few minutes. Here a really nifty microclimate exists. The falls are supplied by water that perks down through the Sand Hills located south of the river and flows out to the north on top of a sandstone formation that has been cut by the river. The falls occur when the water arrives at the ledges the river has cut. I stood under the falls and let the water soak through. The water temp must be in the 60's and the whole area around the falls was delightfully cool. The springs and falls that line the river in this section keep the river temperature nearly constant for much of the year, and certainly make this river a delight for the canoeist when otherwise it would be intolerable.
We had set dates to meet friends who canoe for our trips on three of the rivers. Much of the time, we have no schedule, however, and apart from making campground reservations in Moab, UT where things can get very tight on the weekends, we never made any reservations. We were even able to get a campsite at Redfish Lake near Stanley ID for the Friday of the Fourth of July weekend. In order to do so, we arrived by mid morning, however. The night before we had camped at a National Forest campground where a quarter mile trail led to a fine hot spring - no shower needed.
Our favorite spots are those non-designated ones in various national forests or BLM land. Once we get west of the Missouri and we look around enough on the gravel roads it is nearly always possible to find a fine campsite - sometimes next to a sparkling creek or some impressive desert wall, and we have it all to ourselves.
As we move east, attractive spots are harder to find. A couple of favorites are the Army Corps of Engineers campgrounds at Moline IL, (next to a lock on the Mississippi River) a flood control dam west of Des Moines, and another one east of Minneapolis.
When I read, "Middle fork of the Salmon River" and, "6000 ft. elevation" I knew you had to be in my back yard. How'd you like Redfish lake? My wife and I were just there last weekend. We went for a break from the heat in Boise, but it was still in the 90's. Made for some good sweats on the mountain bike trails though. We stayed right on the shore of Little Redfish Lake in the Mountain View campground. Where did you end up? You are right about having to go through the sites mid morning. You kind of feel like a hawk, but it is really the only way if you can't make a reservation and the reserved sites fill up months in advance. We're going to shoot for reservations at the Outlet campground on Redfish Lake next year since it's near the boat ramps. Our outboard blew last week so we didn't really care if we were on a boating lake this time. Sure wish I'd had a canoe this weekend. Hope you had fun here in Idaho. Talk to you later. --Red
P.S. Which way did you drive in/out? What type of rig do you have and how'd it do on the passes?
I just read your post #453 and got the answers to my questions. To answer your question. No, we did not go on the Yankee fork. We pretty much spent our time around the Redfish area. My wife and I like to ride, so we rode to the big lake, and up a few dirt trails. I haven't been there in a couple years, so we went and checked out Alturas, Alpine and Petit lakes and spent an afternoon at the Sawtooth Fish Hatchery checking out the mammoth Chinook Salmon that have just returned to spawn. There is so much to do up there that you could stay two weeks and not hit it all. Endless hiking trails, small alpine lakes, canoeing, kayaking, rafting, motor boating, fishing, four-wheeling, camping (obviously!), hunting, swimming, biking......whew! It really is a place where a camper rules. We actually left our rig in place and cycled most of the places we went. I'll lay off now and go write some script for the Idaho tourism board or something. I know this sounds like a commercial, but I transplanted here 10 years ago from the Redwood forests of NORTHERN California and I live it. If any of you ever got a chance, go to the Coeur D'Alene (Core Duh Lane) and Pend Oreille (Pond Uh Ray) area. Beautiful. The area is also referred to as Sandpoint for obvious reasons. See ya!
We just got back from our first long trip.Extended our 3 day stay to a 7 day trip to the mountains. Drove over 1200 miles and never left N.C. 560 miles from home to the mountains(long state). My 1500 Ram and SunLite Pop-up performed much better than I had hoped. Got 12 mpg on nearly every tank(14 on one going all down hill).Stayed in a small campground that was exceptionally clean. Our site was about 6 ft. from a stream that was stocked twice a week with trout. The awning/canopy I made worked great. If anyone is interested in how I made it for about $30.00 I will be glad to tell you. I ordered the air lift bags when I got home. Anyone with any words of wisdom or helpfull hits on installing them would, be I would be greatfull
A few days ago someone posted that they have a Pakboat. I got few questions about these boats that maybe you could help me with. What is the skin made out of? How tuff is it (can the thing be drag onlong a river bed without leaking)? How long do you think the skin will last before it starts to come apart from old age? Do you like this boat or are you using it because you don't have room for a normal canoe? Thanks, Joe
Not much to add beyond the instructions that come with the bags.
1. Take extra time when routing the tubes. Make sure they are protected from the exhaust and rocks tossed up by the tires.
2. Always use separate fill lines for each air bag. Otherwise the increased pressure on the outside airbag will transfer to the inside air bag and cause increased lean on turns etc.
3. Where to mount the air fill lines? Some mount them in the fender lip at the wheel well. I prefer to mount them in or near the rear bumper, so I can fill them both without moving. It also makes it easier to level the rig. On my latest truck I drilled the license mountings slightly oversize and used the two fill lines as the license mounting screws. It went Bumper-Rubber washer-Metal Washer-License plate-Lockwasher-Nut.
4. I run the minimum pressure required to bring the back of the truck up to level. Then adjust the headlights. When I take the camper off, the back is high and the headlights point down. I rarely drive at night so I don't care. When in a campground I can use the air lifts to raise the back and help level the truck. I carry a cheap air compressor from Kragens.
5. Read the instructions completely first. Check the parts you got and try to make sense of it before you start. It is probably alot easier to jack up the truck and support it and take off the rear wheels for installation.
Joe, try pakboats.com. The pakboat is an aluminum frame that is in short segments tied together with shockcord like high quality backpackers tents. This frame is assembled inside a heavy duty vinyl covered polyester hull that has a neoprene foam bottom with a very heavy layer of vinyl on the exterior surface. The thing that separates the packboat from the rest of somewhat similar boats is a three chambered air bag in each sidewall. When the thing is assembled, these airbags are inflated which stretches the hull very tightly over the frame. This is the problem that other similar canoes have had - cannot be tightened. Also, the competing canoes tend to float upside down when swamped because the flotation is in the bottom rather than up the sides.
Because the inflation of the bags can be adjusted, the boats can be made tight or loose depending upon what one is doing. Loose for big waves, tight for lake travel.
The boats are made by a friend of ours in Enfield, NH. Four years ago we and some friends went with him to try out prototypes of the 17 foot model on three rivers in the far north of Norway and Finland, 200 miles north of the arctic circle. These were most difficult rivers, high water, big rapids and the sharpest rocks I have ever canoed in. In summary, we destroyed the hulls by the end of the trip. Since then they have been re engineered and are now much improved. Ours is two years old now and has been on some tough rivers and the hull looks nearly new.
We own 9 canoes of various types and the pakboat is the best we have for really big rapids. This is because it flexes like a white water raft instead of burying itself in the big stuff. It is also good if you are flying in to start your trip since it goes inside the plane rather than tying on the outside. For instance, the Twin Otter can carry 8 people and four pakboats inside instead of six people and three standard canoes inside with a resulting reduction in cost per person.
They cost as much as a premium canoe (the high end Mad River canoes for instance). As you probably know, the less a canoe weighs, the more expensive it is. The 17 foot pakboat weighs 50 pounds vs. the 70-80 pounds for a less expensive boat.I miss my nice wood trim and solid bottom of my standard canoes when I'm in the pakboat. On the other hand it will do some things an ordinary canoe cannot. Each year the company makes changes on the basis of user input and I will be suggesting a couple of improvements that will help make them even better on the basis of our experience on the Green and Payette this June/July. A 15 foot pakboat was paddled by one of our paddling aquaintences through the Grand Canyon and came through that just fine. She is a much better paddler than we are, though.
If you are interested in flatwater, or easy rapids, pakboat has a nice lower end model now that is a bit more comfortable, but is incapable of the really big stuff. The website, I think, still shows a video of one of the Norway rapids I mention above.
They fit into a duffle bag (that could be better made) and fit just fine behind the seat in our quad cab Dodge. Good luck with your decision.
Thanks for the tips. They should be here later this week and will put them on over the weekend (I hope). I ordered them from Camping World--they are Air Lift brand-Reg. price is $219.00 plus shipping. President club price $197.10 plus shipping. I had a special deal they sent that took off another 10% and $1.00 shipping. I'll let you know how it goes when I install them.
I'm new to cabover camping, and would like to learn & contribute. I picked up my truck in June, a '97 F350 XLT Crewcab LB 4x4 460 auto, and my camper in July, a '97 Skyline 1010 that's "generator-ready" and plumbed for LP. I'm wondering what the +/- is for Onan vs. Generac, and LP vs. gas. The camper has an 11,000BTU A/C and (2) 10gal LP tanks.
Brutus, I read your earlier posts on the first Cabover Camper chat. Do you like the Onan Microlite 2500 on LP?
Hey stabbur Thanks for the info on the pakboat. It is something that I have been looking for, I would like to see one before I put down $1500. Thanks, Joe
I bought an in-line water filter before my last trip. After I got home I blew as much water out of it as I could. I now wonder what kind of crud might grow in it until I use it again. Anyone else use filters-- how do you store them? Thanks
I have no complaints about the Onan 2.5. I don't use my AC much since I live in Alaska, so I can't address Markbuck's comment. I crank up the AC every now and then, but have never run it for an extended period of time with the generator. I basically use the generator to recharge the battery, run the microwave, or use my vacuum sealer.
I am considering getting one of those large batteries. My friends refer to them as CAT batteries. My battery compartment is big enough to hold one. If I get one of those, I don't suspect I will need to use the generator to charge the battery, at least not in the summer. I'm planning to do some winter camping at some point in the future and would like to run the furnace as long as possible without the generator. The 25,000 BTU furnace will use some power when the temps outside are in the teens or single digits.
I've heard the microlite is more quite than many generators, but it's still likely to upset the neighbors if you run it too much. My friend has a smaller Honda generator that is much more quiet. It won't run an AC, but it does everything he needs it to do.
Welcome back. How is the family? Hope you enjoyed the visit.
What kind of off road do you envision? Some of the stuff we crossed through at Hollister Hills is worse than most anything you'll run into off road - unless you are trailblazing.
Certainly the twist I got when we crossed that one path where I lost my 'S' hook is extreme, and I've never come across anything like that in my travels. Off road speeds are not high, so you could always loosen the tie-downs and reduce the stress on the camper.
Contact Sun-Lite and see what they have to say about off road use. I'm sure some of thier customers use them that way, and they must have some feedback. Ask for some customer names to followup with users.
Pop-ups for off-road make a lot of sense. Plus you get increase mileage and reduced storage space. You may have to give up your TV!
Mike L
PS: Anybody want/need a deep cycle battery or a rear sway bar for a new Silverado?
I'm running two 6V 27series deep cycle golf cart batteries in series. I have 220 amp-hours capacity. About $85 worth of batteries from Sam's Club.
What is the capacity of your current deep cycle's, and what does the CAT offer. You could always run 4 golf cart batteries in a series/parallel configuration for 440 amp-hours.
Markbuck, I checked the specs on the Onan 2.5 and 4.0 generator and found that my compartment will only fit the 2.5KV model. I'm short about 5" in length and 2" in depth for the 4.0 model, so it looks like I'm locked in, short of building a new gen compartment. Onan says a 2.5 will carry a 11KV A/C plus 300W load at sea level.
Brutus, Thanks for the feedback on the Onan 2.5 - looks like it may be my only Onan option. My use is for primitive camping in the desert, mainly running the AC during the hottest part of the day.
Mledtje, What size is your deep cycle battery? I'm looking to move my camper battery to be my 2nd truck battery & put a larger deep cycle in my camper.
I don't know if Vince has a spare battery or not, he was talking about his dad possibly buying mine.
Anyway my battery is a group 24 Interstate Marine/RV Deep Cycle Battery
Width Depth Height 11 6 3/4 9
It is one season old, and our little popup doesn't stress a battery much at all. I replaced it with a tiny drycell battery. Ask Vince how small my aux battery is.
Where are you located? It wouldn't make sense to ship a battery across the country. Both Vince and myself are located in the South San Francisco Bay area.
Our Sunlite has been a fair amount on two track. We have a 2wd pickup so it has been quite tame for the most part. Some pretty good twists from time to time. The weak spot has been the plumbing. We finally got the black water drain permanently repaired (I hope) with a flexible neoprene coupler. When I got back I took off the inspection panel and unfortunately found that the seal between the toilet and tank had leaked just a bit. I'll lift the toilet and redo that. I'd like to replace it with a composter!
Thanks for the responses. Probably it would hold up just fine since I don't envision hard core off-road use. The truck isn't up to that anyway in its stock configuration.
And no Mike, I have no intention of giving up my TV! If I actually do this I will have two campers. I still like the Lance for road trips and winter use. I may have to buy a new house to find storage though. My expectations for off-road use are about what we did at Hollister and maybe a bit more. I realize that this is not typical but you never know what you're going to get into once you start down that nice little dirt road...
dougster, you've got me confused now! What battery are you after? I have a Exide deep cycle in the camper and an Optima deep cycle under the hood (plus the truck OEM battery of course). Mike has the extra battery, but if you want information I can give you that.
Comments
I haven't found the rear sway bar to be needed on my 2500 with a lightweight popup camper - but it was needed with the same camper on a 1500.
I have the Hellwig sway bar I took off my 1500 (in case I needed it on the 2500) and I'll sell it for 1/2 price. If you are local, I'll even help you install it.
Mike L
I'll bet the curb weight is optioned out and full of fuel and ready to go.
At any rate it doesn't sound like the payload for a 2500HD is much higher than for a 2500. Maybe 300lbs more.
Mike L
And this is in camp later that night. Mike has the popup, I have the stars.
The shocks will likely be overloaded. My truck was pretty floaty with the stock shocks. I put Edelbrock IAS shocks on and it's only a little better. Rancho 9000s are probably the way to go.
Vince, I just spoke with Hellwig customer service, and they now have a new bar available specifically for the 2000 model year; same part number as before (7634) but you have to be sure to specify "new style" in order to differentiate it from the one for the 1999 models. Also, as you've already found out, the "old" bar doesn't quite fit the Y2K models.
I'm going to go ahead and get both the bar and air-bags at the same time. A co-worker has a Bigfoot (got it free from from his Dad, dang it! How come I can never get any of those types of things for free?) on his F350 SD with camper package (includes sway-bar). After I told him about everything I'd read here and on HappyCampers about the air-bags, he had them installed. After his first trip with the bags, he came in to work all round-eyed and said "Wow! Those things really make a difference! Cross-winds, curves, nothing bothers it now!"
With them plumbed together, when you go around a corner the outside bag gets more weight and compresses more. That will transfer air to the inside bag and cause more lean, more weight transfer, more air transfer, etc. When the bags are separate, none of that air transfer takes place and you get the benifits of the system.
Mike L
My co-worker has independent-line bags installed, but the installer only took the lines to the wheel wells; must be the only location mentioned in the Firstone instructions or something. When I mentioned your setup of running the lines to license frame area on the rear bumper, he smacked his head. When I mentioned the in-cab control, he said "I didn't even know about it or I would have asked for it." Thanks to guys like you, I've found tons of great info here on Edmunds and over at HappyCampers.
Anyone out there have a 8' popup for sale?
Vince, 4 Wheel Campers are not cheap. But, they are lighter and stronger than the competition. In retrospect, I would rather have a 4 Wheel Camper. But, I'm not unhappy with the one I have. Phoenix Campers are about $2000 less - when you figure you don't have to pay sales tax.
http://phoenixcampers.com/index.html
We had them make our camper shorter, narrower and with reduced height, it wound up with the same dimensions as a 4 Wheel Camper. Unlike the 4 Wheel people, they are open to specials.
Mike L
On the popup front, thanks for the link Mike. It got me looking all over the web. I found several Palominos, looks to be a budget unit not marketed to the off-road crowd. It's probably good enough though. I'll keep looking.
to the other brands.
Thanks
Mike L
They are as close to invisible as one could hope, yet still be readily accessible on the rear of the truck.
Vince, I need to get a picture of these to post for everyone to see.
Mike L
Thanks
Why don't you give us a picture of your Sun-Lite camper. You can e-mail it to me for posting. I found a used SunLite which sounds good but it's a 6hr drive away.
Against that wind we were drag limited at about 80mph. At that speed it blew the vinyl strip out of the aluminum channel up front and made a short rip in the aluminum exterior inspection door for the Dometic. Obviously the diesel is stronger than aluminum. On the other hand it was comforting to be able to move with the rest of the traffic, something we would have had trouble doing with the Ford 250 we sold this spring. The quad cab was a big improvement in comfort and wind noise. We do not have air bags and, though with this rig we are right up to GVWR - 8800lbs - we were very happy with the ride and balance. Even the tilted slab concrete through the midwest was not a problem on this trip. The turbo makes a real statement about itself when we get up to 10,000ft or so.
Not as many states as mledtje covered in about the same miles. The Pakboat canoe traveled behind the drivers seat in its duffle bag and expanded to 17 feet for trips on the Wild and Scenic portion of the Niobrara, Nebraska, the Fraser River in Colorado, Desolation Canyon on the Green River in Utah, and the Payette River in Idaho. We were in rubber duckies (inflatable kayaks) for our trip on the Middle Fork of the Salmon. About 300 river miles all together.
We took the unpaved road down into Echo Park in Dinosaur National Monument, a fine camper trip if you don't mind dust. It crosses and recrosses several dry washes that may become impassable to 4wd if it rains. It has been wisely decided not to put culverts under the road at the washes. They don't last as evidence at a couple of spots demonstrates. At the bottom there is a new campground (dry camping) on the Green River with fine views of Steamship Rock and with a short walk to the lovely spot where the Yampa joins the Green.
We also drove from Sunbeam to Challis Idaho on the gravel road along the Yankee Fork of the Salmon. The portion just north of Sunbeam up to Bonanza has been worked over by a gold dredge and is devastated, but above Custer the country is great. There are lots of two tracks going down to nice spots along the river. We pulled into one of them and had a fine night. About 35 miles and with the lodgepoles hanging low over the road it is probably much better suited to pop tops than to hard sides as one approaches the top of the pass.Blawless, I see you were at Stanly ID just after we were there. Did you go on the Yankee Fork?
We also drove the Warm Springs Road up to the top of Lemhi pass and then went down the east side into Montana. This allowed us to visit the spot where Merriweather Lewis decided that he had found the source of the Missouri River. Looking west from the top of the pass into a country just filled with snow capped mountains, you can certainly see why he was discouraged about his trip to the Pacific.
There is now a small park there where we had lunch and where we stood with one foot on each side of the embryonic river. This unpaved road is closed from time to time but a sign is posted at the bottom if the pass is closed.
In order to make Brutus feel better about his loose battery connections, I will confess our one big mistake on our trip. I pulled the propane bottle from its compartment to fill it and carried it up to the propane pump, leaving our truck parked some distance away because a 40 foot rig was filling its water tank and took up space near the propane pump. After filling it, I left it on the curb and went in to pay for it. Meanwhile the 40 footer pulled away. My wife, wanting to help, pulled our truck up to the propane pump not realizing that I had left the door to the propane compartment leaning against the truck. She ran over the door while doing so. I came out, to find the door crushed but presumably salvageable with some work with the pliers, but I couldn't find the knurled bolt that secured the door. With dread, I asked my wife to back up a few inches and there it was buried in the tread of the 265/75 R16 load range E tire. I painted it with the soap and water and it was blowing large bubbles.
The Dodge spare drops with a nice cable winch arrangement. The crank for this is accessed above the license plate holder, and is, of course, completely blocked by the gray water tank on our camper. I had brought along a vise grip and had tested it before we left to see if I could turn the shaft with it while lying under the truck. I never thought I would find myself doing this, however. I won't tell the rest of the story - it is too painful, except to say that a week later after straightening the door and reinstalling it, we shook it off on the washboard to our camping spot in the Grand Targhee. We found it on our way out the next day but the knurled bolt was gone. That door may have caused TWO flats! If it was one of you guys, I sincerely apologize. I got a new door in Rock Springs, WY.
Now we are unpacked and the camper is put away. Great trip, and a wonderful way to travel.
Thanks Ronnie
Satch - The best way to get rid of bugs is to drive in a heavy rain for a couple of hours. Next best way is to wet a towel (or 6 towels) and drape across the bugs. Keep it wet overnight, and the next day the critters will clean off easier. Another trick that will make cleanup easier: Before a long trip, put a heavy coat of wax on the front surface, but do not remove it. Then the wax under the bugs makes them easier to remove.
Mike L
As most of you know the east has been as wet this year as the west has been dry. On our way west we had heavy rains when we camped just west of Cleveland. Stopped at the Crystal Lake Campground in severe gusting wind, lightning/thunder and rain. A person with stunning blonde hair, an impressive bosom, and lots of makeup directed us to an empty parking area as far from I 90 as possible. Since we had a person killed last year in Vermont when a windstorm dropped a tree on his motor home, I picked a spot away from the thrashing cottonwoods. I filled out no paperwork and my $20 cash will probably never show up in any account. I also noted that she/he had coarse features and the husky voice of a male. This was definitely not a Good Sam type of camping area.
The interstate noise was terrible but nothing compared to the main line of Conrail that went by across the small pond. Those intermodal freights hauling semis and containers must travel at 70mph and they run about 30 minutes apart. Sounded like they were coming right through the camper. We awoke time after time with hearts pounding. It poured cold rain all night long.
We slept in our lightweight down bags and were warm. Because of the severe weather we had the vents and the windows closed, except for the Jalousy side window we left cracked. I worried that the gusts, must have been 40-50 mph would take the pop top right off the camper and send it across the pond, but it stayed.
We had enough condensation by morning so that the windows in the pop top were pretty well fogged and the front of the pop top was quite damp. I spread a small nylon tarp over the bed before folding the top down so that the mattress and sheet would stay dry. That tarp is a good thing to have in a pop top. I also tie it to the boat rack on the top to make an awning for sun or rain. We stake it out with recycled aluminum ski poles. Just pull the hand grips off them by sliding them forcibly through a partially opened vise and remove the baskets the same way. Then put the small end of one inside the large end of another to make tarp poles of various lengths. You can add a third if needed. Cut down the basket and use the resulting donut for the top of the pole to hold the tarp and line. Every ski shop has bent ski poles they don't know what to do with.
When we got this pop top in 1995 the front weatherstrip between the pop top and the main camper leaked when we drove fast in heavy rain. We bought some aftermarket auto weatherstrip and put another layer in that opening and have had no trouble since, despite driving through some heavy rain at highway speeds.
The coldest temp we encountered was the first night on the Middle Fork of the Salmon River. It had rained hard on the first afternoon out, but then cleared to a beautiful evening. We woke up the morning of July 4th with frost on the tent fly, vegetation, and river bags. The water in our drinking water bottles that were next to the packs was not frozen, so I would put the low temperature that morning at 30-32. This campsite was at about 6000 ft elevation. In the camper I would have turned on the furnace. On the river I tell myself that the sun will soon be in the canyon and I adapt. After a couple of days out eating breakfast with the temp around 45 degrees seems very comfortable. (I loaned my gloves to a gal from Tennessee who was adapting more slowly, however.)
The hottest we encountered was 106 degrees just east of Valentine Nebraska. When we camped an hour later at Smith Falls State Park it was still blistering hot in the sun where the campsites are located. Fortunately, the Niobrara runs east and west in a steep valley and the north facing slope of the valley has plenty of vegetation. A foot bridge crosses the river here and you can walk to the base of the falls in a few minutes. Here a really nifty microclimate exists. The falls are supplied by water that perks down through the Sand Hills located south of the river and flows out to the north on top of a sandstone formation that has been cut by the river. The falls occur when the water arrives at the ledges the river has cut. I stood under the falls and let the water soak through. The water temp must be in the 60's and the whole area around the falls was delightfully cool. The springs and falls that line the river in this section keep the river temperature nearly constant for much of the year, and certainly make this river a delight for the canoeist when otherwise it would be intolerable.
We had set dates to meet friends who canoe for our trips on three of the rivers. Much of the time, we have no schedule, however, and apart from making campground reservations in Moab, UT where things can get very tight on the weekends, we never made any reservations. We were even able to get a campsite at Redfish Lake near Stanley ID for the Friday of the Fourth of July weekend. In order to do so, we arrived by mid morning, however. The night before we had camped at a National Forest campground where a quarter mile trail led to a fine hot spring - no shower needed.
Our favorite spots are those non-designated ones in various national forests or BLM land. Once we get west of the Missouri and we look around enough on the gravel roads it is nearly always possible to find a fine campsite - sometimes next to a sparkling creek or some impressive desert wall, and we have it all to ourselves.
As we move east, attractive spots are harder to find. A couple of favorites are the Army Corps of Engineers campgrounds at Moline IL, (next to a lock on the Mississippi River) a flood control dam west of Des Moines, and another one east of Minneapolis.
We stayed right on the shore of Little Redfish Lake in the Mountain View campground. Where did you end up?
You are right about having to go through the sites mid morning. You kind of feel like a hawk, but it is really the only way if you can't make a reservation and the reserved sites fill up months in advance. We're going to shoot for reservations at the Outlet campground on Redfish Lake next year since it's near the boat ramps. Our outboard blew last week so we didn't really care if we were on a boating lake this time. Sure wish I'd had a canoe this weekend.
Hope you had fun here in Idaho. Talk to you later. --Red
P.S. Which way did you drive in/out? What type of rig do you have and how'd it do on the passes?
There is so much to do up there that you could stay two weeks and not hit it all. Endless hiking trails, small alpine lakes, canoeing, kayaking, rafting, motor boating, fishing, four-wheeling, camping (obviously!), hunting, swimming, biking......whew! It really is a place where a camper rules. We actually left our rig in place and cycled most of the places we went.
I'll lay off now and go write some script for the Idaho tourism board or something. I know this sounds like a commercial, but I transplanted here 10 years ago from the Redwood forests of NORTHERN California and I live it. If any of you ever got a chance, go to the Coeur D'Alene (Core Duh Lane) and Pend Oreille (Pond Uh Ray) area. Beautiful. The area is also referred to as Sandpoint for obvious reasons. See ya!
Do you like this boat or are you using it because you don't have room for a normal canoe?
Thanks,
Joe
Not much to add beyond the instructions that come with the bags.
1. Take extra time when routing the tubes. Make sure they are protected from the exhaust and rocks tossed up by the tires.
2. Always use separate fill lines for each air bag. Otherwise the increased pressure on the outside airbag will transfer to the inside air bag and cause increased lean on turns etc.
3. Where to mount the air fill lines? Some mount them in the fender lip at the wheel well. I prefer to mount them in or near the rear bumper, so I can fill them both without moving. It also makes it easier to level the rig. On my latest truck I drilled the license mountings slightly oversize and used the two fill lines as the license mounting screws. It went Bumper-Rubber washer-Metal Washer-License plate-Lockwasher-Nut.
4. I run the minimum pressure required to bring the back of the truck up to level. Then adjust the headlights. When I take the camper off, the back is high and the headlights point down. I rarely drive at night so I don't care. When in a campground I can use the air lifts to raise the back and help level the truck. I carry a cheap air compressor from Kragens.
5. Read the instructions completely first. Check the parts you got and try to make sense of it before you start. It is probably alot easier to jack up the truck and support it and take off the rear wheels for installation.
Good Luck,
Mike L
Because the inflation of the bags can be adjusted, the boats can be made tight or loose depending upon what one is doing. Loose for big waves, tight for lake travel.
The boats are made by a friend of ours in Enfield, NH. Four years ago we and some friends went with him to try out prototypes of the 17 foot model on three rivers in the far north of Norway and Finland, 200 miles north of the arctic circle. These were most difficult rivers, high water, big rapids and the sharpest rocks I have ever canoed in. In summary, we destroyed the hulls by the end of the trip. Since then they have been re engineered and are now much improved. Ours is two years old now and has been on some tough rivers and the hull looks nearly new.
We own 9 canoes of various types and the pakboat is the best we have for really big rapids. This is because it flexes like a white water raft instead of burying itself in the big stuff. It is also good if you are flying in to start your trip since it goes inside the plane rather than tying on the outside. For instance, the Twin Otter can carry 8 people and four pakboats inside instead of six people and three standard canoes inside with a resulting reduction in cost per person.
They cost as much as a premium canoe (the high end Mad River canoes for instance). As you probably know, the less a canoe weighs, the more expensive it is. The 17 foot pakboat weighs 50 pounds vs. the 70-80 pounds for a less expensive boat.I miss my nice wood trim and solid bottom of my standard canoes when I'm in the pakboat. On the other hand it will do some things an ordinary canoe cannot. Each year the company makes changes on the basis of user input and I will be suggesting a couple of improvements that will help make them even better on the basis of our experience on the Green and Payette this June/July. A 15 foot pakboat was paddled by one of our paddling aquaintences through the Grand Canyon and came through that just fine. She is a much better paddler than we are, though.
If you are interested in flatwater, or easy rapids, pakboat has a nice lower end model now that is a bit more comfortable, but is incapable of the really big stuff. The website, I think, still shows a video of one of the Norway rapids I mention above.
They fit into a duffle bag (that could be better made) and fit just fine behind the seat in our quad cab Dodge. Good luck with your decision.
(I hope). I ordered them from Camping World--they are Air Lift brand-Reg. price is $219.00 plus shipping. President club price $197.10 plus shipping. I had a special deal they sent that took off another 10% and $1.00 shipping. I'll let you know how it goes when I install them.
Brutus,
I read your earlier posts on the first Cabover Camper chat. Do you like the Onan Microlite 2500 on LP?
Any thoughts are appreciated.
Thanks for the info on the pakboat. It is something that I have been looking for, I would like to see one before I put down $1500.
Thanks,
Joe
A 2.5 kw generator will barely power your A/C at 0' elevation. At higher elevations, you risk burning up the compressor.....
Generac, noisey but cheap. I'd look at Kohler too.
Thanks
Mike L
I am considering getting one of those large batteries. My friends refer to them as CAT batteries. My battery compartment is big enough to hold one. If I get one of those, I don't suspect I will need to use the generator to charge the battery, at least not in the summer. I'm planning to do some winter camping at some point in the future and would like to run the furnace as long as possible without the generator. The 25,000 BTU furnace will use some power when the temps outside are in the teens or single digits.
I've heard the microlite is more quite than many generators, but it's still likely to upset the neighbors if you run it too much. My friend has a smaller Honda generator that is much more quiet. It won't run an AC, but it does everything he needs it to do.
Has anyone used a Sun-Lite popup off-road much? I found a used Eagle on the web that sounds okay but am a little worried about the wood construction.
Vince
P.S. Welcome to the group dougster6!
What kind of off road do you envision? Some of the stuff we crossed through at Hollister Hills is worse than most anything you'll run into off road - unless you are trailblazing.
Certainly the twist I got when we crossed that one path where I lost my 'S' hook is extreme, and I've never come across anything like that in my travels. Off road speeds are not high, so you could always loosen the tie-downs and reduce the stress on the camper.
Contact Sun-Lite and see what they have to say about off road use. I'm sure some of thier customers use them that way, and they must have some feedback. Ask for some customer names to followup with users.
Pop-ups for off-road make a lot of sense. Plus you get increase mileage and reduced storage space. You may have to give up your TV!
Mike L
PS: Anybody want/need a deep cycle battery or a rear sway bar for a new Silverado?
What is the capacity of your current deep cycle's, and what does the CAT offer. You could always run 4 golf cart batteries in a series/parallel configuration for 440 amp-hours.
I checked the specs on the Onan 2.5 and 4.0 generator and found that my compartment will only fit the 2.5KV model. I'm short about 5" in length and 2" in depth for the 4.0 model, so it looks like I'm locked in, short of building a new gen compartment. Onan says a 2.5 will carry a 11KV A/C plus 300W load at sea level.
Brutus,
Thanks for the feedback on the Onan 2.5 - looks like it may be my only Onan option. My use is for primitive camping in the desert, mainly running the AC during the hottest part of the day.
Mledtje,
What size is your deep cycle battery? I'm looking to move my camper battery to be my 2nd truck battery & put a larger deep cycle in my camper.
Anyway my battery is a group 24 Interstate Marine/RV Deep Cycle Battery
Width Depth Height
11 6 3/4 9
It is one season old, and our little popup doesn't stress a battery much at all. I replaced it with a tiny drycell battery. Ask Vince how small my aux battery is.
Where are you located? It wouldn't make sense to ship a battery across the country. Both Vince and myself are located in the South San Francisco Bay area.
Mike L
And no Mike, I have no intention of giving up my TV! If I actually do this I will have two campers. I still like the Lance for road trips and winter use. I may have to buy a new house to find storage though. My expectations for off-road use are about what we did at Hollister and maybe a bit more. I realize that this is not typical but you never know what you're going to get into once you start down that nice little dirt road...
dougster, you've got me confused now! What battery are you after? I have a Exide deep cycle in the camper and an Optima deep cycle under the hood (plus the truck OEM battery of course). Mike has the extra battery, but if you want information I can give you that.