Every time I sit down in my Highlander 08, I am worried about any possible problems. I used to enjoy driving so much. Now, all I can think of is that my Toyota might not be safe. It has been recalled for the floor mats. I am sick to my stomach after hearing the Toyota executive stating that the current fix will not fix much. Does he drive Toyota? Probably not anymore. I've had this car since October 2008, used with 25,000 miles on it. I still like it, but I hate to feal the fear. Also, did anybody else feels like there is suddenly more room in the front of your car? Nobody wants to be ahead of me when I drive, no matter what lane. I can't say that I blame them. If I could I would go and trade this car for someting else right the way. I don't want to wait and see what other problems they will find. I used to recommend Toyota to everyone. I had a 4Runner 02. I put 120,000 miles on it in 6 years. Shame on Toyota. :mad:
Yes, me too......speechless as to why she did not put it into neutral or turn it off.....
This is the quote from the AP report on Yahoo news today:
"Rhonda Smith, of Sevierville, Tenn., said her Lexus raced out of control to speeds up to 100 miles an hour, and that nothing she did to try to stop it worked — including braking and shifting into neutral. "I prayed to God to help me," she said, fighting back tears."
my perspective is, if a trained CHP driving instructor could not control the car, there was a real problem.
No offense to the deceased, but there are a lot of people who can pass tests but don't have that intuitive understanding when time is critical. The CHP officer was still human and could have made a mistake, or not put the car in neutral. That doesn't excuse Toyota's behavior.
!. Does the on board computer connect to the acelerator in any way? 2. Does the on board computer connect to the transmission in any way? 3 Does the on board computer connect to the braking system in any way?
I have a 07 Hybrid Camry pushed the off button to kill the engine and probably improperly did so and as I stepped out of the door the car engine suddenly started. Should I name her Christine or HAL
Good suggestion for using the "damn" parking brake to stop a 2010 Camry from rolling backwards on a steep upslope to avoid hitting a vehicle parking close behind.
It is true that all vehicles will roll backwards when the upslope is steep enough, however one 2010 Camry owner complained about the car roll backwards on just a 10 degree slope in idle speed. Such a vehicle will roll backwards much faster on a steep upslope than a vehicle which can stay motionless in idle speed on a 10 degree upslope and may hit a vehicle parking behind if it is too close..
However, if brake override is installed in an easy-roll-backwards Camry as planned, a driver will not be able to increase the rpm of the engine to prepare for moving forward on a steep upslope by stepping on the gas pedal when the parking brake is engaged. If the driver thinks that the engine is not responding because he has not step on the gas pedal hard enough, he may press the gas pedal harder before releasing the parking brake. When the brake override is disengaged by releasing the parking brake in this situation, the Camry will lunge forward suddenly with a wide open throttle and may hit a vehicle at the front.
Without brake override, a driver can step gently on the gas pedal with the parking brake on and sense if the engine has increased the rpm high enough to fight the rolling backwards. Therefore, having brake override in a Toyota vehicle which can roll backwards easily on a slope is not a safe combination.
You think the Toyota owners are bottom feeders for complaining about their 2010 Camry roll backwards too easily on a gentle upslope in idle speed! So what do you think the angry Toyota owners who complain about unintended acceleration of their Toyota vehicles are? Piranhas?
The big news out of Lentz's testimony is that he said on Feb. 1 that the company had solved the problem of sudden acceleration. Today, however, he says company has "not totally" addressed the issue.
Geez Jim, what's your story going to be today. Guess this is all about that Toyota mentality of standing behind the customer and screwing them over in the process.
From the outcome on all this, Toyota's name has become an embarrassment :sick: .
Most people love to rave about their vehicles and what they drive...cannot imagine anyone boast..."I own a Toyota"...my response would be....I am sorry to hear that.
I heard on the local radio station here in Cincy that all the local Toyota dealerships are complaining that Corporate Toyota is getting treated unfair by the government and it because the government owns GM. I don't think this is a good defense to use in America "you are picking on me because" You pulled me over because" You fired me because" Come on Toyota don't you remember Ford's Pinto Fiasco? The government filed criminal charges against Ford executives for the same thing you guys are doing.
Anyone watching the Bloomberg analysis posted a few back (youtube) can see that the problem is toyota has been caught! They got caught worse than Tiger Woods.
They played. Now the Japanese government agencies are worried that this is hurting their image, grin. Their image of considering US buyers gullible and buyers on past reputation. The amusing part is the problems go back to 2001 or 2002 where toyota representation, the local dealerships, gave complainers the garage door treatment when they complained. It's your driving. It's something you did. It's the floor mat. It's not there--nothing showed in the computer (knowing the computer would record some faults). And they opened the garage door for the complained to leave in their car.
The Bloomberg discussion says70%of the Unintended Acceleration events are likely tied to the unknown, and not to the mats or flawed toyota-designed pedal itself.
It's amusing that some want to talk about recalls from other car companies as a way to minimize what is wrong in the toyotas, apparently all versions. The Camry upgrade to Lexus is included. That's what is so damning from Tuesday's hearings--the people were driving a LEXUS which toyota has tried to shield from connection with the parts-sharing "cheap" car line Camry, Corolla, etc.
The Pinto (and others) required a rear end collision accident to occur, which was unlikely, and required a fairly hefty blow at that. The Explorer required air pressure too low on the rear tires. BUT toyota's flaws are there anytime the car is turned on, and according to the Lexus driver in Sevierville TN, even if the car is off it started itself when put into neutral.
There is a headquarters in Cincy for some portion of toyota's US operations. I can see that the local dealers would try to blame someone else. I remember the billboard on I75 in Evendale with toyota declaring itself, to paraphrase, as American as apple pie. It disappeared before I made my next trip into Cincy to University area and brought my camera.
From your posts back when you bought the truck you were sick because you felt the dealer had taken advantage of you. Maybe you are just sick because you have buyers remorse and are looking for a buyback.
What was there to learn? Be careful about false hysteria when there may be money involved? Audi was cleared of any wrong doing and those claiming SA finally admitted they were lying, etc.
If you drag any other auto company before congress they would all have to answer pretty much the way Lentz did. Very few cars have any type of brake override system in the U.S. This whole thing is ridiculous.
I think Toyota realizes that there is really no way to fight the UAW, congress, and mass hysteria so they will just accept responsibility, apologize, and keep their mouths shut. As always, a few lawyers will get rich at taxpayer expense and all auto prices will go up so the lawyers can be paid.
That is true. However VW Audi did start using a brake over ride system to insure that they would not have those issues in the future. Toyota had to see this coming. They have complaints of UA going back to their first implementation of DBW. I think around 1999 or 2000. I don't know about Audi owners admitting they were lying. Steve posted cases against Audi that are still in the court system.
Those worrying about starting out on a hill with brake over-ride can rest easy. A well designed system such as that used by Audi will only come into play when the brakes are pushed hard while the engine is at WOT. Pushing the gas and using the brake to hold you back is not affected.
Toyota has copied other automakers & manufacturers, since the early days and up and through their hybrids. They may need to check with those that have successful DBW systems to solve the dilemma they have created by their lack of integrity.
Very few cars have any type of brake override system in the U.S. This whole thing is ridiculous.
From Consumer Reports: Most European cars already feature smart throttle, as well as some GM and Nissan models. We hope other automakers pursue similar technology.
As always, a few lawyers will get rich at taxpayer expense and all auto prices will go up so the lawyers can be paid.
Too bad there is not that sentiment about malpractice lawsuits that has made our health care horribly expensive. You have to remember Lawyers are in charge in Washington. This is just their next step in taking total control.
I don't see the UAW doing anything here to generate problems for toyota. I did see toyota having paid several of their employees to come sit in the gallery with buttons on to indicate that at least part of their cars sold are made in the USA. Are people for toyota allowed to show thus while a labor union is not allowed to have an interest?
> congress,
Congress is asking questions about something toyota stalled and manipulated for years.
>and mass hysteria
I don't see any mass hysteria. I see toyota caught with their rear end in a wringer on the washing machine they imported. Even Jim Lentz wouldn't take responsibility for ability to start a recall--it had to be approved in Japan.
revit....I agree with the 2nd interviewee, Toyota doesn't want to issue a 3rd recall, even thought it's warranted. It sure looks like Toyota is going to do just that, however. Given the fact that an independent 3rd party source was able to replicate the problem in 3 hours, a problem in which all of Toyota's engineers couldn't do, after spending allegedly millions of dollars testing (something I doubt), a ton of man hours, over the course of years.
The fact that Toyota paraded the U.S. Toyota President, and no experts of their own (where were any of their prized engineering staff at the hearing?) tells me they thought their "deny/dimiss" strategy would still hold. It didn't. Further, Lentz couldn't have been more ill-prepared.....under oath, in front of Congress, no less. I know even if I were going to meet with a low-level IRS agent about my taxes, I'd certainly be more prepared than Lentz was.
Further, I'm not buying the fact that he didn't know many of the answers to what Congress was asking him. Even if he was just a "sales and marketing guy", surely the recalls and image would be part of his responsibility. He'd want to know why the vehicles he's trying market and sell were suffering from these maladies. He's also the Chief Operating Officer. Certainly, when a crisis like this hits, you'd want to have all the facts at your fingertips....again, especially under oath, in front of Congress. While it's tragic that he lost a brother in a car crash, I couldn't help but him trotting that fact out, as well as the tears, was staged. It had nothing to do with these proceedings....except to elicit some sort of sympathy.
For those questioning Mrs. Smith's use of a cell phone during her ordeal, she mentioned using the "blu tooth" calling feature to call her husband. The way that works is you push a button on the steering wheel, state "call husbnd" or "call (number)" and you're connected. She wasn't fumbling about to find her cell phone, and then physically dialing it. So, that doesn't hold water, either.
Bottom line, this isn't about General Motors, or Ford, or Chrysler. This hearing is about Toyota. Regardless of the amount of problems Toyota has with SUA, or braking, or crusie controls, or electronics, or floormats, or "sticky pedals", or the numbers of complaints, reports, accidents and even deaths, this is about fixing their vehicles so no further incidents occur. It's not what's happened in the past. It's protecting drivers from what may happen in the future with these faulty vehicles.
On a personal basis, I believe Toyota knows exactly what the real problem is. It's the electronics and software, as Mr. Kane and Professor Gilbert testified (and proved in a lab). It took Professor Gilbert 3 hours to replicate the problem. However, that would mean Toyota would have to recall, not only the current 8.5 million vehicles they've already recalled, but every make, model, brand the've put on the roads reaching back as far as perhaps 2001. Plus, they know that some of those vehicles have "hard coded" eproms, ECUs, etc. In those instances, it's not a simple reflash. It would mean a replacement of the eproms, and perhaps the entire ECU. That would mean a recall of 6x-7x, maybe even 8x the size of the ones they've already recalled.
That would make the current recall look like a minor blip. And would entail billions upon billions of dollars.
As Mr Toyoda has stated, Toyota got too hung up on expansion....being the number #1 vehicle seller and manufacturer in the world. He/they did this in trade for slipping quality, serious safety issues, vehicles that have caused accidents, and even deaths. He/they did this without regard, not only for public safety, but hurting their dealerships, their owners (declining faith in the safety of their vehicles, and dropping resale values) and certainly their employees. They tried to cover it up (which is even more disgusting).
I'm betting that Mr Toyoda's translator (which I think is another theatrical move) doesn't only translate English to Japanese, and back. But, I'm also better he's a lawyer, which will spin whatever words Mr Toyoda says into something that will put Toyota in a less libelous light.
>Toyota doesn't want to issue a 3rd recall, even thought it's warranted.
Toyota doesn't want to do the expensive 3rd recall. This would mean replacing the computers on most cars.
Also this involves more than just simple main computer replacement. The inability to go into neutral. The brakes not working effectively. The fact the car started the motor when put into neutral to go onto the tow truck. The fact the dash lights and radio stayed on even after the car was off in the Sevierville I-40 incident. I also read about a Prius owner who opened his door and the car started itself.
AND this was a Lexus, the supposed luxury version of the Camry.
The cost of admitting the need for redoing the computers is what toyota hopes to avoid. It's like Firestone stalling on the Firestone 500 tires until years went by and most people had already taken those tires off and didn't have them any longer for a recall.
>But, I'm also better he's a lawyer, which will spin whatever words Mr Toyoda says into something that will put Toyota in a less libelous light.
I hope CBS, ABC, or someone uses their own translator to go over the translation to check for correctness. That could become the next big story for ABC Nightly News, "Translator changes words of CEO to avoid admissions against toyota's interests."
Mercedes suffered some real problems with electronics in the 1980s. That gave Lexus an opening to take over the top spot in luxury. Seems it went to their head and they did not keep close enough tabs on the customer complaints. Will some automaker knock Lexus off their pedestal? As reliable as our 1990 LS400 has been. I would never buy another one. The dealer we have is the same one that put the wrong floor mat in the ES350 that the family was killed in. And my experience was negative after the warranty was up. Thank goodness for competent independent Lexus repair shops. Or it would have been gone 6 years ago.
Lexus took market share due to drastically lower prices, and less intensive maintenance requirements, rather than less electrical glitches. The service experience helped, too...one was never coddled at a MB dealer and most still are not. MBs had a stellar reliability rep at the end of the 80s. About 10 years later is when things went to hell.
Years ago, after the media frenzy reporting hundreds of deaths with the Ford Pinto finally subsided, they actually discovered the fatalities directly related to the recall was only about twenty seven, still tragic but certainly not on the level of what was being reported.
I'm sure Toyota will be suffering the same fate for awhile, fake reports and misinformation just like the Pinto. Unfortunately in the age of the internet, this problem has the propensity to be explosive.
In direct comment to the topic "On the mend", I think reasonable people will understand that a certain amount of information about Toyota will be.... complete garbage.
When Toyota is finally on the mend - enjoy your new purchase.
Thanks hoya....got it playing in the background in the office (replacing my "Yanni" and "Michael Bolton" CDs... :P ).
Lahood is on the defensive. NHTSA investigates EVERY complaint and takes them seriously. Stopped just short of saying people should stop driving Toyotas/Lexi until they get them fixed.
Graphic, never underestimate the ability of the government to screw things up. I can't imagine politicians not taking advantage of this circus to advance some agenda and burden businesses with new mandates. In the end, I'm sure we will end up paying more for less.
grandma....not a fan of big government....not in the least. However, I like LaHood. He's direct. He's passionate about his position. In this situation, I'm of the mind to let NHTSA to do the work we pay him to do. Specifically, address safety of any plane, train or automobile. That's what we want.
LaHood finally came out and said it..."If your Toyota/Lexus vehicle is on the recall list, it is unsafe to drive. Get it immediately to the dealership."
>that a certain amount of information about Toyota will be.... complete garbage.
What information here is "complete garbage"? I can understand some people being "Uncomfortable" with criticism of their car brand, but a blanket statement passing off toyota's major problems for years just won't work.
"For those questioning Mrs. Smith's use of a cell phone during her ordeal, she mentioned using the "blu tooth" calling feature to call her husband."
And for those wondering about the CHP driver using a cell phone - he wasn't. His brother-n-law, who was in the passenger seat, made the call.
Also, you cannot dismiss the driver training that police officers and HP people undergo. It is rigorous, and it is actual driving, not a written exam. I still wonder if the poor man tried to put the vehicle in neutral. For those who have listened to the 911 call (I can't bear to listen to it.), is there any indication that he tried that?
Mrs. Smith said she put her vehicle into neutral, but as someone else said, perhaps she thought it did not work due to the engine noise. This has me spooked.
What specific vehicles have a brake override system now?
>I still wonder if the poor man tried to put the vehicle in neutral. For those who have listened to the 911 call (I can't bear to listen to it.), is there any indication that he tried that? >Mrs. Smith said she put her vehicle into neutral, but as someone else said, perhaps she thought it did not work due to the engine noise.
Mrs. Smith said she had applied the emergency (parking) brake. If the car were in neutral, she would have slowed down as she applied the regular brakes and it would have been noticeable. I haven't found anybody who can say that the California patrolman did not put the car in neutral and in every other gear. Mrs. Smith had put the car into reverse even when the lever wouldn't react and go into neutral.
Without brake override, a driver can step gently on the gas pedal with the parking brake on and sense if the engine has increased the rpm high enough to fight the rolling backwards. Therefore, having brake override in a Toyota vehicle which can roll backwards easily on a slope is not a safe combination.
Subaru has (or had) a hill holder clutch that would keep the car from rolling backwards on a hill while you were engaging the gears. I guess it worked although lots of people had trouble getting used to it.
Since Toyota owns a good sized chunk of Subaru, they should have access to the technology, and someone should be able to figure out how to adopt it to an automatic. Probably already exists.
Brands that currently offer brake override tech include Chrysler, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen/Audi and Nissan, but the systems aren't universal across every product line. dailydriverblog.com
Which is why you can get some tracing paper and almost trace the early LS from the W126. Toyota knew exactly what they were doing...they were also at the top of their game in 1990.
I still don't like some of the Acura-ish angularity of the new E, but everything I have read about it is positive, and it seems to be extremely well-built. The only one I have driven was a 4cyl diesel model in Germany....slow and loud, but a combined mpg of more than 40 makes it tolerable.
Depending on where you get your stats from and they vary.....Toyota has been ahead of if not in the number one spot for the last 3 years. I think that GM has been on the outside looking in at Toyota, Ford and Honda for those last 3 years. Like I said....depending on who is reporting and where you hear it. The last actual news report, that I heard about 6 months ago said that Toyota was in 1st, Ford 2nd and Honda 3rd. But then a few days later I read in a newspaper that GM was still in the lead.......
Not intending to rant at you for anything. I try to understand why on any subject related to cars many,(not you ) relate it to GM? Then now Toyota (Japan ) is now calling it an American way of protecting GM owned by the American Government. I am thinking this farce will hurt employees in the USA (Toyota) if Japan pulls out. I would hope you do not feel I am making it your fault. I am glad to see D.O.T. declare all the Toyota's on it's web unsafe until the dealer recall has been covered.This will make it the owners fault in the event any of their love ones die because of the embedded, it could not happen to me.I am sorry if I upset you.
I am glad to see D.O.T. declare all the Toyota's on it's web unsafe until the dealer recall has been covered.
Do you have a link for that? I've only done a quick search and haven't found it yet. All I see is the 2/10/10 press release.
If the NHTSA says not to drive any Toyota, that looks like it would give Toyota's lawyers a defense for any accident that happens after the DOT said not to drive them.
Why not count the Employees that are working in Toyota and GM ? Thinking the old GM is still shutting down it's plants (Saturn ) for one . The Dealers next you are so happy to see this happen,you forget many families suffer as will Toyota workers if this (Toyoda) leaves with the thought the American Government is protecting GM and Chrysler employees by them calling him here. STOP.
Sorry Steve, it was on CNN and the Question was asked of the D.O.T. The answer was on the D.O.T..com site the list of Toyota's on recall, are unsafe until the recall has been taken care of.The new director of N.H.T.S.A. did not testify because he has only been on the job 40 plus days. the Transportation Sec. is taking full responsibility. This all came about within the last half hour.
71K Really? The break pads on most cars tend to last that long.
44K really? Your probably still on your first battery?
160,000 miles on my 01 subaru which has towed boats all over the west coast for many years. I have replaced two sensors and three sets of brake pads the last at 140K and the rotors finally needed to be turned to eliminate a slight out of true spot. It's very accurate to say that the car has had a very hard life and yet it still runs pretty much as it did when it was new. The HS kid across the street just bought a old Subaru outback with 280,000 miles on it for $2500. The car looks brand new. My brothers wife just sold her old camry that had 295,000 miles on it - it lived through three HS kids!
Same goes for my 93 Landcruiser with 140K on it other than having a leaky valve cover gasket fixed and the front axle knuckles redone it keeps plugging along also hauling boats and people all over the west coast along with some off road trips.
The average Camry will never get used up - the owners will grow tired of them and buy something new long before they become problematic- which is pretty much the case for any quality car which every automakers has at least one in their line up now days.
The absolute worst option and dumbest piece of equipment I've ever seen put in cars the damn built in NAVI units! Are you kidding me? You have taken a product that can easily run 10yrs with very little issues and put a major piece of expensive equipment mounted center stage that will be out dated in 6months and nearly useless after 3yrs. The smartest design would be a navi system that can easily be unplugged and replaced with your product choice down the road. Think Cellphones and blue tooth people when your old cell phone dies or becomes so outdated you can't really use it for what you need it for you go get a new one. Your blue tooth system in your car could care less if its an old phone or a new one.
People any recently car with less than 100K on it is simply just getting broken in. The stuff that wears out now days are seats - suspension bits - airconditioner compressors, wheel bearings - steering racks etc. The engines and transmissions for the most part will out last the car assuming they are used correctly and maintained correctly.
well, some of the stuff with Toyota right now can be related back to GM and Ford of many years ago, at least before bailouts, bankruptcy, and restructuring
this is especially true of GM customer service at both the dealership and corporate level; how these Toyota owners were treated not by just their local Toyota dealers but also corporate Toyota, is exactly how I remember being treated for over 25 years by GM when ever I had any troubles with the 8 different models I had from them!
while I personally never had a Ford, I had several friends, cousins, Aunt's, Uncle's, etc who had similar problems with their vehicles and customer service at Ford dealerships and at corporate that I did with GM
now, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to trash GM or Ford because things have changed at both companies within the last 2 years and some things have gotten better but it was not too long ago they acted in similar fashions to Toyota! you don't know how many times over the 25 years I was with GM on all the recalls and TSBs I had on my vehicles that when I went into the dealerships or called corporate how they denied that there were any problems that I had the proof that there were and I was experiencing them with my vehicles! I don't know about you but that sounds a lot like a current situation with another big car company
smarty...we at least agree on one thing, this Toyota problem is one that was also a problem for General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler in the past (as well as some other foreign based auto manufacturers).
They all fought tooth and nail in trying not to enact safety mandated equipment. They tried to dismiss the equipment. They tried to say it costs too much. They did everything but install it, until forced to.
They've been much more compliant in recent years. I still remember Chrysler (I think during Iaccoca's reign) ballyhooing how all of their cars had airbags, when the rest of the manufacturers were fighting them (including Toyota).
You would have to be deaf and blind to not see how much more polite the panel is to LaHood than they were to Lentz. For some reason before a question is asked they congratulate LaHood and tell him what a great job he is doing.
Also LaHood is much more defensive, arrogant, and combative in his answers. I would like to know how many times he has said, "I will have to get back to you on that". Which means he doesn't have a clue to the information that was asked for.
agreed, just like Toyota customer's are finding out now, it was like pulling teeth to try and get GM to fix or fix it correctly on my vehicles with them!
Not to deny Dealers do 90% of all costumer contacts all be it any car company.I worked for GM for 32 years and retired 17 years ago. I have owned 74 new (GM) plus older cars before. Ford Chrysler Fiat Gremlin. and never in all that time of ownership did I have but one flat tire.on GM .This is not to say, I drove most up to 6,000 miles and what went on after that turns out to be GM and the workers fault.This now comes to Toyota,I do feel for the people who work for this Company.I do understand the pain and thoughts of their jobs going.(been there done That) The thought that Cobalt has been a problem is not acceptable GM ,Ford and any car Company has Main frame reporting for Dealers to get Warranty payment, I in the past was able to pull this information for the W-car on all GM plant build, it would spit out the rate of reported problems to be looked at at the plant level .This tells me if I did this over 20 years ago then NHTSA could get this now from any Company. This is my answer to any car owner,If your answer at your Dealer is not what you want take it to another. Then the Company.
Comments
I've had this car since October 2008, used with 25,000 miles on it. I still like it, but I hate to feal the fear. Also, did anybody else feels like there is suddenly more room in the front of your car? Nobody wants to be ahead of me when I drive, no matter what lane. I can't say that I blame them.
If I could I would go and trade this car for someting else right the way. I don't want to wait and see what other problems they will find. I used to recommend Toyota to everyone. I had a 4Runner 02. I put 120,000 miles on it in 6 years.
Shame on Toyota. :mad:
Toyota execs drive Audis. They have already been there and done that with UA. Too bad Toyota did not learn from VW/Audi.
This is the quote from the AP report on Yahoo news today:
"Rhonda Smith, of Sevierville, Tenn., said her Lexus raced out of control to speeds up to 100 miles an hour, and that nothing she did to try to stop it worked — including braking and shifting into neutral. "I prayed to God to help me," she said, fighting back tears."
No offense to the deceased, but there are a lot of people who can pass tests but don't have that intuitive understanding when time is critical. The CHP officer was still human and could have made a mistake, or not put the car in neutral. That doesn't excuse Toyota's behavior.
!. Does the on board computer connect to the acelerator in any way?
2. Does the on board computer connect to the transmission in any way?
3 Does the on board computer connect to the braking system in any way?
I have a 07 Hybrid Camry pushed the off button to kill the engine and probably improperly did so and as I stepped out of the door the car engine suddenly started. Should I name her Christine or HAL
It is true that all vehicles will roll backwards when the upslope is steep enough, however one 2010 Camry owner complained about the car roll backwards on just a 10 degree slope in idle speed. Such a vehicle will roll backwards much faster on a steep upslope than a vehicle which can stay motionless in idle speed on a 10 degree upslope and may hit a vehicle parking behind if it is too close..
However, if brake override is installed in an easy-roll-backwards Camry as planned, a driver will not be able to increase the rpm of the engine to prepare for moving forward on a steep upslope by stepping on the gas pedal when the parking brake is engaged.
If the driver thinks that the engine is not responding because he has not step on the gas pedal hard enough, he may press the gas pedal harder before releasing the parking brake. When the brake override is disengaged by releasing the parking brake in this situation, the Camry will lunge forward suddenly with a wide open throttle and may hit a vehicle at the front.
Without brake override, a driver can step gently on the gas pedal with the parking brake on and sense if the engine has increased the rpm high enough to fight the rolling backwards.
Therefore, having brake override in a Toyota vehicle which can roll backwards easily on a slope is not a safe combination.
You think the Toyota owners are bottom feeders for complaining about their 2010 Camry roll backwards too easily on a gentle upslope in idle speed!
So what do you think the angry Toyota owners who complain about unintended acceleration of their Toyota vehicles are? Piranhas?
Geez Jim, what's your story going to be today. Guess this is all about that Toyota mentality of standing behind the customer and screwing them over in the process.
From the outcome on all this, Toyota's name has become an embarrassment :sick: .
Most people love to rave about their vehicles and what they drive...cannot imagine anyone boast..."I own a Toyota"...my response would be....I am sorry to hear that.
Gosh, don't know who is more pathetic, good old Jim's testimony or Toyota's CEO:
Just more of the same old BLAH, BLAH, BLAH
They played. Now the Japanese government agencies are worried that this is hurting their image, grin. Their image of considering US buyers gullible and buyers on past reputation. The amusing part is the problems go back to 2001 or 2002 where toyota representation, the local dealerships, gave complainers the garage door treatment when they complained. It's your driving. It's something you did. It's the floor mat. It's not there--nothing showed in the computer (knowing the computer would record some faults). And they opened the garage door for the complained to leave in their car.
The Bloomberg discussion says 70% of the Unintended Acceleration events are likely tied to the unknown, and not to the mats or flawed toyota-designed pedal itself.
It's amusing that some want to talk about recalls from other car companies as a way to minimize what is wrong in the toyotas, apparently all versions. The Camry upgrade to Lexus is included. That's what is so damning from Tuesday's hearings--the people were driving a LEXUS which toyota has tried to shield from connection with the parts-sharing "cheap" car line Camry, Corolla, etc.
The Pinto (and others) required a rear end collision accident to occur, which was unlikely, and required a fairly hefty blow at that. The Explorer required air pressure too low on the rear tires. BUT toyota's flaws are there anytime the car is turned on, and according to the Lexus driver in Sevierville TN, even if the car is off it started itself when put into neutral.
There is a headquarters in Cincy for some portion of toyota's US operations. I can see that the local dealers would try to blame someone else. I remember the billboard on I75 in Evendale with toyota declaring itself, to paraphrase, as American as apple pie. It disappeared before I made my next trip into Cincy to University area and brought my camera.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-wnbyFXpyU
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I think Toyota realizes that there is really no way to fight the UAW, congress, and mass hysteria so they will just accept responsibility, apologize, and keep their mouths shut. As always, a few lawyers will get rich at taxpayer expense and all auto prices will go up so the lawyers can be paid.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Those worrying about starting out on a hill with brake over-ride can rest easy. A well designed system such as that used by Audi will only come into play when the brakes are pushed hard while the engine is at WOT. Pushing the gas and using the brake to hold you back is not affected.
Toyota has copied other automakers & manufacturers, since the early days and up and through their hybrids. They may need to check with those that have successful DBW systems to solve the dilemma they have created by their lack of integrity.
From Consumer Reports:
Most European cars already feature smart throttle, as well as some GM and Nissan models. We hope other automakers pursue similar technology.
As always, a few lawyers will get rich at taxpayer expense and all auto prices will go up so the lawyers can be paid.
Too bad there is not that sentiment about malpractice lawsuits that has made our health care horribly expensive. You have to remember Lawyers are in charge in Washington. This is just their next step in taking total control.
I don't see the UAW doing anything here to generate problems for toyota.
I did see toyota having paid several of their employees to come sit in the gallery with buttons on to indicate that at least part of their cars sold are made in the USA.
Are people for toyota allowed to show thus while a labor union is not allowed to have an interest?
> congress,
Congress is asking questions about something toyota stalled and manipulated for years.
>and mass hysteria
I don't see any mass hysteria. I see toyota caught with their rear end in a wringer on the washing machine they imported. Even Jim Lentz wouldn't take responsibility for ability to start a recall--it had to be approved in Japan.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Given the fact that an independent 3rd party source was able to replicate the problem in 3 hours, a problem in which all of Toyota's engineers couldn't do, after spending allegedly millions of dollars testing (something I doubt), a ton of man hours, over the course of years.
The fact that Toyota paraded the U.S. Toyota President, and no experts of their own (where were any of their prized engineering staff at the hearing?) tells me they thought their "deny/dimiss" strategy would still hold. It didn't. Further, Lentz couldn't have been more ill-prepared.....under oath, in front of Congress, no less. I know even if I were going to meet with a low-level IRS agent about my taxes, I'd certainly be more prepared than Lentz was.
Further, I'm not buying the fact that he didn't know many of the answers to what Congress was asking him. Even if he was just a "sales and marketing guy", surely the recalls and image would be part of his responsibility. He'd want to know why the vehicles he's trying market and sell were suffering from these maladies. He's also the Chief Operating Officer. Certainly, when a crisis like this hits, you'd want to have all the facts at your fingertips....again, especially under oath, in front of Congress. While it's tragic that he lost a brother in a car crash, I couldn't help but him trotting that fact out, as well as the tears, was staged. It had nothing to do with these proceedings....except to elicit some sort of sympathy.
For those questioning Mrs. Smith's use of a cell phone during her ordeal, she mentioned using the "blu tooth" calling feature to call her husband. The way that works is you push a button on the steering wheel, state "call husbnd" or "call (number)" and you're connected. She wasn't fumbling about to find her cell phone, and then physically dialing it. So, that doesn't hold water, either.
Bottom line, this isn't about General Motors, or Ford, or Chrysler. This hearing is about Toyota. Regardless of the amount of problems Toyota has with SUA, or braking, or crusie controls, or electronics, or floormats, or "sticky pedals", or the numbers of complaints, reports, accidents and even deaths, this is about fixing their vehicles so no further incidents occur. It's not what's happened in the past. It's protecting drivers from what may happen in the future with these faulty vehicles.
On a personal basis, I believe Toyota knows exactly what the real problem is. It's the electronics and software, as Mr. Kane and Professor Gilbert testified (and proved in a lab). It took Professor Gilbert 3 hours to replicate the problem. However, that would mean Toyota would have to recall, not only the current 8.5 million vehicles they've already recalled, but every make, model, brand the've put on the roads reaching back as far as perhaps 2001. Plus, they know that some of those vehicles have "hard coded" eproms, ECUs, etc. In those instances, it's not a simple reflash. It would mean a replacement of the eproms, and perhaps the entire ECU. That would mean a recall of 6x-7x, maybe even 8x the size of the ones they've already recalled.
That would make the current recall look like a minor blip. And would entail billions upon billions of dollars.
As Mr Toyoda has stated, Toyota got too hung up on expansion....being the number #1 vehicle seller and manufacturer in the world. He/they did this in trade for slipping quality, serious safety issues, vehicles that have caused accidents, and even deaths. He/they did this without regard, not only for public safety, but hurting their dealerships, their owners (declining faith in the safety of their vehicles, and dropping resale values) and certainly their employees. They tried to cover it up (which is even more disgusting).
I'm betting that Mr Toyoda's translator (which I think is another theatrical move) doesn't only translate English to Japanese, and back. But, I'm also better he's a lawyer, which will spin whatever words Mr Toyoda says into something that will put Toyota in a less libelous light.
Toyota doesn't want to do the expensive 3rd recall. This would mean replacing the computers on most cars.
Also this involves more than just simple main computer replacement. The inability to go into neutral. The brakes not working effectively. The fact the car started the motor when put into neutral to go onto the tow truck. The fact the dash lights and radio stayed on even after the car was off in the Sevierville I-40 incident. I also read about a Prius owner who opened his door and the car started itself.
AND this was a Lexus, the supposed luxury version of the Camry.
The cost of admitting the need for redoing the computers is what toyota hopes to avoid. It's like Firestone stalling on the Firestone 500 tires until years went by and most people had already taken those tires off and didn't have them any longer for a recall.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I hope CBS, ABC, or someone uses their own translator to go over the translation to check for correctness. That could become the next big story for ABC Nightly News, "Translator changes words of CEO to avoid admissions against toyota's interests."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
thanks
Bailey
(this one appears to be down until March)
Then there is this "scoresheet"
link title
I'm sure Toyota will be suffering the same fate for awhile, fake reports and misinformation just like the Pinto. Unfortunately in the age of the internet, this problem has the propensity to be explosive.
In direct comment to the topic "On the mend", I think reasonable people will understand that a certain amount of information about Toyota will be.... complete garbage.
When Toyota is finally on the mend - enjoy your new purchase.
I will.
Lahood is on the defensive. NHTSA investigates EVERY complaint and takes them seriously. Stopped just short of saying people should stop driving Toyotas/Lexi until they get them fixed.
LaHood finally came out and said it..."If your Toyota/Lexus vehicle is on the recall list, it is unsafe to drive. Get it immediately to the dealership."
What information here is "complete garbage"? I can understand some people being "Uncomfortable" with criticism of their car brand, but a blanket statement passing off toyota's major problems for years just won't work.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
And for those wondering about the CHP driver using a cell phone - he wasn't. His brother-n-law, who was in the passenger seat, made the call.
Also, you cannot dismiss the driver training that police officers and HP people undergo. It is rigorous, and it is actual driving, not a written exam. I still wonder if the poor man tried to put the vehicle in neutral. For those who have listened to the 911 call (I can't bear to listen to it.), is there any indication that he tried that?
Mrs. Smith said she put her vehicle into neutral, but as someone else said, perhaps she thought it did not work due to the engine noise. This has me spooked.
What specific vehicles have a brake override system now?
>Mrs. Smith said she put her vehicle into neutral, but as someone else said, perhaps she thought it did not work due to the engine noise.
Mrs. Smith said she had applied the emergency (parking) brake. If the car were in neutral, she would have slowed down as she applied the regular brakes and it would have been noticeable. I haven't found anybody who can say that the California patrolman did not put the car in neutral and in every other gear. Mrs. Smith had put the car into reverse even when the lever wouldn't react and go into neutral.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Therefore, having brake override in a Toyota vehicle which can roll backwards easily on a slope is not a safe combination.
Subaru has (or had) a hill holder clutch that would keep the car from rolling backwards on a hill while you were engaging the gears. I guess it worked although lots of people had trouble getting used to it.
Since Toyota owns a good sized chunk of Subaru, they should have access to the technology, and someone should be able to figure out how to adopt it to an automatic. Probably already exists.
Brands that currently offer brake override tech include Chrysler, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen/Audi and Nissan, but the systems aren't universal across every product line. dailydriverblog.com
I still don't like some of the Acura-ish angularity of the new E, but everything I have read about it is positive, and it seems to be extremely well-built. The only one I have driven was a 4cyl diesel model in Germany....slow and loud, but a combined mpg of more than 40 makes it tolerable.
Depending on where you get your stats from and they vary.....Toyota has been ahead of if not in the number one spot for the last 3 years. I think that GM has been on the outside looking in at Toyota, Ford and Honda for those last 3 years. Like I said....depending on who is reporting and where you hear it.
The last actual news report, that I heard about 6 months ago said that Toyota was in 1st, Ford 2nd and Honda 3rd. But then a few days later I read in a newspaper that GM was still in the lead.......
Do you have a link for that? I've only done a quick search and haven't found it yet. All I see is the 2/10/10 press release.
If the NHTSA says not to drive any Toyota, that looks like it would give Toyota's lawyers a defense for any accident that happens after the DOT said not to drive them.
71K Really? The break pads on most cars tend to last that long.
44K really? Your probably still on your first battery?
160,000 miles on my 01 subaru which has towed boats all over the west coast for many years. I have replaced two sensors and three sets of brake pads the last at 140K and the rotors finally needed to be turned to eliminate a slight out of true spot. It's very accurate to say that the car has had a very hard life and yet it still runs pretty much as it did when it was new. The HS kid across the street just bought a old Subaru outback with 280,000 miles on it for $2500. The car looks brand new. My brothers wife just sold her old camry that had 295,000 miles on it - it lived through three HS kids!
Same goes for my 93 Landcruiser with 140K on it other than having a leaky valve cover gasket fixed and the front axle knuckles redone it keeps plugging along also hauling boats and people all over the west coast along with some off road trips.
The average Camry will never get used up - the owners will grow tired of them and buy something new long before they become problematic- which is pretty much the case for any quality car which every automakers has at least one in their line up now days.
The absolute worst option and dumbest piece of equipment I've ever seen put in cars the damn built in NAVI units! Are you kidding me?
You have taken a product that can easily run 10yrs with very little issues and put a major piece of expensive equipment mounted center stage that will be out dated in 6months and nearly useless after 3yrs. The smartest design would be a navi system that can easily be unplugged and replaced with your product choice down the road. Think Cellphones and blue tooth people when your old cell phone dies or becomes so outdated you can't really use it for what you need it for you go get a new one. Your blue tooth system in your car could care less if its an old phone or a new one.
People any recently car with less than 100K on it is simply just getting broken in. The stuff that wears out now days are seats - suspension bits - airconditioner compressors, wheel bearings - steering racks etc. The engines and transmissions for the most part will out last the car assuming they are used correctly and maintained correctly.
this is especially true of GM customer service at both the dealership and corporate level; how these Toyota owners were treated not by just their local Toyota dealers but also corporate Toyota, is exactly how I remember being treated for over 25 years by GM when ever I had any troubles with the 8 different models I had from them!
while I personally never had a Ford, I had several friends, cousins, Aunt's, Uncle's, etc who had similar problems with their vehicles and customer service at Ford dealerships and at corporate that I did with GM
now, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to trash GM or Ford because things have changed at both companies within the last 2 years and some things have gotten better but it was not too long ago they acted in similar fashions to Toyota! you don't know how many times over the 25 years I was with GM on all the recalls and TSBs I had on my vehicles that when I went into the dealerships or called corporate how they denied that there were any problems that I had the proof that there were and I was experiencing them with my vehicles! I don't know about you but that sounds a lot like a current situation with another big car company
They all fought tooth and nail in trying not to enact safety mandated equipment. They tried to dismiss the equipment. They tried to say it costs too much. They did everything but install it, until forced to.
They've been much more compliant in recent years. I still remember Chrysler (I think during Iaccoca's reign) ballyhooing how all of their cars had airbags, when the rest of the manufacturers were fighting them (including Toyota).
Well.... That's the rub. If you know be sure to tell me - it would make things a lot easier!!!
Also LaHood is much more defensive, arrogant, and combative in his answers. I would like to know how many times he has said, "I will have to get back to you on that". Which means he doesn't have a clue to the information that was asked for.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460