Toyota on the mend?

busiris

I'm gonna find a "Calvin" sticker and put it on my Lenovo.

LOL!

If its the one with him peeing, don't bring it to SC.

A couple of years ago, the cops charged a man with that sticker on his truck rear glass for public indecency or some such idiocy.

Yep...Good ole progressive South Carolina. Home of the "hiking governor"...

lemko

Almost as bad as Pennsylvania and its "Liquor Control Board." Harrisburg still thinks it's still Prohibition. Much better selection and prices are right across the Delaware River in New Jersey.

andres3

Sometimes I feel that no place would be worse than CA when it comes to traffic enforcement, but from the stories I've heard and read, some east coast destinations must top us at being bad.

I can't imagine living in a place where just driving on the road is punishable with HUGE, cruel, and unusual fines. Or where the Constitution is thrown into the dumpster and cameras are used instead of witnesses (the cop); see Arizona.

Does it surprise anyone that a State where photo radar is used unconstitutionally allows the Police to have supreme power and authority to question anyone's citizenship with no reason at all other than unsubtantiated suspicion? :sick:

I already feel like taking SNIPER practice on photo camera's at redlights already in CA. In other states I'd probably feel like trying out my homerun swings with a baseball bat, shooting automatic rifles, handguns, shotguns, swinging lead pipes, and using other explosives against revenue generating traffic enforcement machines.

I've heard some groups in AZ are more peaceful and use Post-Its to defeat a camera's operation. Unfortunately they need to devise an adhesive glue that is more permanent on glass/lens surfaces :P

gagrice

If you think it is bad in the USA. Canada has had camera ticketing since the early 1970s.

I think they are just to nab runaway Toyotas. A common occurrence.

lemko

Dang! andres3 and I actually agree on something!

fintail

The bad thing about going after the cameras is that your tax money will go to replace them. Maybe better to go after the camera operators and the scuzzy public servants who support them. If a meteor hit Redflex HQ and wiped it off the map, I'd be in pain from laughter.

ateixeira

I was shocked when I recently read that here in MD those cameras lose money. At first they made a profit, but now everyone knows where they are, so they are not writing enough tickets to offset their operating costs.

FWIW they say they're keeping them because here they're within a certain distance from schools and it has helped slow traffic down for school zones.

fintail

I can deal with them in school zones or legitimate proven danger areas, but at the bottom of hills and at lights where sequencing is thrown off to create violations etc, it is nothing short of disgusting. And if they end up losing money...the net loss should be deducted from the bloated salary of the [non-permissible content removed] who approved them to begin with.

anythngbutgm

"Stuck gas pedal sends woman and children speeding down I-64"

gagrice

Quite obviously a scam. Probably set up by Toyota to take some of the heat off their UA problems. Why didn't the 911 operator tell her to shift into neutral? Forty miles and the car never got over 100 MPH. Are they saying an Equinox with stuck throttle will top out about 90. Its a hoax no doubt about it. Someone should have told her ahead of time to use something besides a government motors vehicle. You cannot sue the Feds.

imidazol97

Doesn't the Equinox have a key!!! A novel on/off device!

And GM hasn't been reported to have trouble with their transmissions shifting into neutral like toyotas.

And the driver didn't say that her brakes didn't work.

She had an attorney already! Enough said.

Note that toyota Georgetown is in that general area from where she allegedly started her trip.

imidazol97

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2010-06-14-toyotasteering14_CV_N.htm?loc=int- erstitialskip

•The recalls came after highly publicized crashes.

In Kumamoto, Japan, in 2004, steering failed on a vehicle similar to the U.S. 4Runner, causing a head-on crash that injured five and got considerable media attention. The relay rod recall in Japan followed.

In San Diego County, last August, a crash killed off-duty California Highway Patrol officer Mark Saylor and three family members after an improper floor mat jammed a Lexus gas pedal. Toyota announced a recall to fix mats and pedals in November.

•The U.S. recalls came months after foreign actions for the same problems.

In the steering rod case, Toyota recalled 330,000 vehicles in Japan in October 2004 and didn't recall 977,000 similar U.S. models until September 2005.

In the case of gas pedals that could cause unwanted acceleration, Toyota changed the design of gas-pedal assemblies in European-market vehicles in July 2009 but said it didn't suspect a problem with similar U.S. models. Jan. 21, Toyota recalled 2.3 million U.S. vehicles to replace the sticky pedals.

Kristensen, the lawyer in the Stewart suit against Toyota, calls that a pattern: "If they didn't change last time, why do you think they will this time?"

busiris

Hmmm... Let's see...

The brakes in her car wouldn't slow and stop the vehicle, yet the brakes in the HP cruiser than maneuvered in front of her stopped his car and hers as well...

Show me da money!!!! is the phrase the most likely applies here.

She should have her license suspended...or better yet, confiscated permanently.

No longer can these lawyers be called "ambulance chasers". Now, they should be called UA vehicle chasers.

andres3

I don't think anyone wins whether the local goverment pulls a financial profit or not from traffic SCAMERAS. Win or lose, everyone loses when officials choose to ignore the Constitution and try to justify trivial ends to justify substantial means.

Lots of governments won't continue the charade when profits fail to materialize, and will cancel the scamera programs when they produce a net loss financially, further proving they have nothing to do with safety.

Your area of the world is probably a lone exception where you have ultra stubborn idiots in office that would rather lose money than lose "face." They need to use a sword the way honorable Japanese people used to when facing dishonor and poor decision making.

fintail

I believe eventually they will be banned in more places, maybe everywhere. The impotent Brits and subjugated Europeans might not rebel as they should, but I think people will in the US.

Not any speed cameras I know of in my area, and just a handful of places with red light cameras.

Poor decision making equals promotion in the public sector...which makes for better pensions upon retirement at age 55...

Sylvia

Seems like the Toyota hoopla from earlier in the year is dying down. Yes?

larsb

Seems to be.

Found this in a story today:

Nationwide claims of unexpected acceleration have resulted in class-action lawsuits. A Toyota news release issued the week before Anton’s crash asked the public to wait before coming to conclusions about the claims.

“Recently we have seen instances where the facts did not support the initial claims and sensational reports,” the release said. “In the best interests of all those involved, it’s important to keep this in mind as the case proceeds and the facts are presented.”

Heintz said Monday that none of the claims he has heard about have been proven. He also said he wishes the unintended acceleration claims wouldn’t draw as much attention as they do when they are made.

“Show me one incident where the claims have been proven, where it’s the actual vehicle,” Heintz said. “There haven’t been any. It’s all been risen out of fear and, frankly, the media.”

I think that sums it up so far. Nothing proven by either side yet.*

*NASA test results pending.

chuck1

NONE have been proven to be the Fault of Audi's car several years ago.

gagrice

Just what I would expect from a Toyota news release. How about all the floor mats causing sticking pedals. Those are proven to cause UA. How about the fellow getting his Avalon into the dealership with a WOT. I think you will find all the cases that are easy to prove get paid off by Toyota so they do not end up in court.

larsb

That was not from a 'Yota news release.

busiris

Seems like the Toyota hoopla from earlier in the year is dying down. Yes?

I think the term "hoopla" is appropriate.

The UA issue, for the most part, follows the expected "norms" of unexplained events. UFO sitings are wonderful examples of this phenomenon.

A couple of events get high visibility, and then folks from all walks of life (and many, quite respectable individuals) start reporting having experienced additional events.

Students in Medical School often experience this as well, and as they learn about rare and unusual (sometimes not so rare and unusual) diseases and afflictions, many quite often begin believing that either they or someone close to them has this condition. Most eventually become aware of the phenomenon and learn how to cope with it.

Of course, the best known case of this form of hysteria was Orson Welles' War of the Worlds broadcast in the late1930's. Folks were seeing Martians everywhere. The only difference here was that folks eventually realized it wasn't real... and no one was able to produce a single Martian.

It would be interesting to see what would change (if anything) in the number of reported incidents of UA if someplace highly respected (like Cal-Tech or MIT) fabricated a study stating that, after considerable and lengthy research, vehicle UA was impossible.

I would suspect that UA events would all but disappear.

andres3

Anyone remember that insanely successful commercial tagline?

I LOVE WHAT YOU DO FOR ME!!! ... TOYOTA!

tlong

I LOVE WHAT YOU DO FOR ME!!! ... TOYOTA!

Or if you are old enough, the 70's/80's line was "Get your hands on a Toyota, and you'll never let go!!!!!". :P :shades: :sick:

explorerx4

is offering 0% for 84 months on Corolla's. Doesn't sound like the salad days for Toyota to me.

anythngbutgm

McGee Chevrolet here in MA is offering free Aveos if you buy a Silverado...

lemko

I remember the "Oh, what a feeling!" and "You asked for it. You got it." ads. Anybody remember the "Datsun Saves" ads?

chuck1

Just a marketing ploy. Obviously, you will not get the truck fully discounted. There is no such thing as a free lunch......

ateixeira

I love how quickly and easily you guys dismiss the Equinox case, even before any details emerge, so let me ask...

Do you believe Sikes? Or do you agree that was an obvious hoax?

The woman in the Equinox had her 2 kids in her car. Do you guys honestly believe she'd take a bribe from Toyota? Stage the near-death experience of her own kids?

I'm not saying it's not driver error (that was surely a factor), but at least let's wait to get the details before you crucify her.

One bankrupt/porn peddler/watch-listed scam artist in a Toyota and you believe it.

A mom with her 2 kids in a domestic car and it can't be true.

Gotta love the consistency!

What year was the Equinox? Any written sources?

For a while there the whole 3500 pushrod engines were coming from China, using old GM assembly line equipment (seriously). Who knows what sort of quality controls the throttle assemblies went through.

Hmm, why don't we look at an actual source...

Consumer Reports, Buying Guide 2010, page 160.

BIG BLACK DOT for the 2005 Equinox under Electrical, Drive System, Brakes, and Body Integrity. The 2006 models also got a black dot for Fuel System.

2007 model reliability was also below average.

Not only is the story plausible, it seems to fit right in with the consistently poor reliability ratings from thousands of people in the CR survey.

What year was hers?

anythngbutgm

Runaway 2008 Chevrolet Equinox reported in Louisville

anythngbutgm

I moved into the passing lane and accelerated. However, the gas pedal reacted as though I had hit the resume button for the cruise control. I had used the cruise control 5 days earlier. I applied the brake but with no response. I moved my left foot to the brake with full force while attempting to pull the gas pedal up with my right foot. At the time I didn't know that wouldn't change anything. Eventually - a few miles later - I gained control. The dealership initially showed concern & had the car towed to their shop. Since then they have claimed the incident couldn't have happened as I reported it. They can not duplicate the problem unlike the first time unintended acceleration occurred. At that time - 5 months earlier - I was in slow moving traffic, the engine raced & the car accelerated. I was able to put it into neutral, pull over & shut the car off. That was something the dealership could read on the car's computer. The second incident was not & at the time I knew it was different. I would never sell a car with such a serious problem. And I don't feel comfortable at all using it.

ateixeira

Thanks, right in the headline.

2008 was indeed the prior generation Equinox, 3500 pushrod engine made in China as I mentioned. GM shipped the old tooling from a US factory to China to build them as cheaply as possible.

Recently they got their act together and started building a competitive Equinox with Direct Injection I-4 and V6 engines.

The 2008 was the old GM, as-cheap-as-possible, engine made in China.

busiris

I love how quickly and easily you guys dismiss the Equinox case, even before any details emerge, so let me ask...

Do you believe Sikes? Or do you agree that was an obvious hoax?

The woman in the Equinox had her 2 kids in her car. Do you guys honestly believe she'd take a bribe from Toyota? Stage the near-death experience of her own kids?

I don't dismiss the possibility of vehicle UA, and in fact, I think its an almost 100% probability if one considers the sheer number of vehicles/miles driven.

However, I do question individual accounts of it, especially when someone takes the time to make a phone call during an actual event (while at the same time, driving said vehicle).

To me, its one thing to cry "HELP" in a situation, but something else to make a call to do that during an emergency...as you said, with your children at risk. Couple that with already having a lawyer, and well, you can see where I'm going with this.

But, for someone to suggest that Toyota put her up to this....To me, that holds even less water than the claim of UA.

ateixeira

I question the individual accounts as well, and I've been consistent.

The question was really intended for the people who will believe ANYTHING bad about Toyota and automatically dismiss anything bad about the domestic competition.

This case brings up lots of questions (neutral? hello?) but not nearly as many as the Sikes case.

FWIW Sikes had a lawyer, too.

busiris

I agree. As I have stated before, if you are in your "preferred" vehicle and get slammed by another experiencing UA, you're just as apt to be injured as if it were your "preferred" brand vehicle suffering UA and slamming into you.

Vehicle UA shouldn't be used as a tactic to bash any particular make or model, unless it is factually clear that the defect is inherent in that make/model.

If/when there is actual vehicle UA or stuck throttle (2 very different issues), one of these outcomes is likely (IMO, at least)...

1- A crash, most likely resulting in injuries/death.
2- An incident controlled by driver interaction (ie, switches off ignition, shifts to neutral, etc.), in which the driver survives to give a detailed description.
3- A panicing driver with a passenger calling for help.

Of course, there may be variations of the 3 above or, in some instances, a totally different response.

As for Sikes, he lost my potential support when he stated that he didn't shift into neutral because he thought the car might "flip". In my 56 years, I don't ever recall hearing of one single incident of a car flipping after being shifted to neutral, regardless of the speed it was traveling at the time.

andres3

In my 56 years, I don't ever recall hearing of one single incident of a car flipping after being shifted to neutral, regardless of the speed it was traveling at the time.

That's an excellent point. Everyone's world view is made up of their own life experiences. Has there ever been a report of a car flipping anywhere in automotive history because the driver shifted into neutral? If not, then where did Sikes get this viewpoint from???

The answer is most likely his own imagination to cover up a hoax.

gagrice

In my 56 years, I don't ever recall hearing of one single incident of a car flipping after being shifted to neutral, regardless of the speed it was traveling at the time.

Sikes was following the Prius manual that says NOT to shift into neutral while moving as it may cause you to have an accident.



http://priuschat.com/news/oops-the-2010-prius-manual-contradicts-toyotas-emergen- cy-instructions

lemko

I thought the older Equinox had a 3.4 V-6 that was once made in Mexico and then production was shipped to China.

larsb

Oh, PLEASE, Gary, how dumb do you think we are?

Those are just warnings they put in the manual to cover their butts.

Of course no one should put a moving car in reverse or into park !!!

But in an emergency situation, i.e. LIFE OR DEATH, damage to the car can be secondary to the damage about to occur to your body !!!

Anyone with a LICK OF SENSE knows that to cure an out of control car, step 1 should ALWAYS BE PUT THE CAR INTO NEUTRAL !!! DUH !!!

You think Sikes had these three paragraphs memorized and was using them in his emergency situation? That's Redonkulous.

deltheking

Every maker`s owners manual will have that info . Selective journalism at its best ! :lemon:
And the biggest lie of 2010 in auto world - SUA !! Hoping Toyota comes back even better and puts pressure on others just like Hyundai is doing now.. Win win for the buyer. But the Det 3- not worth wasting print on them !! :lemon:

gagrice

Actually Toyota claims Park is the best for the Prius in UA situation. The question posed, was why would anyone think it could be dangerous to put a car in Neutral? I posted from a very Pro Prius website, why someone would think it was dangerous. I cannot help if Toyota cannot decide how to design their auto transmission shifting devices. Just poor engineering as far as I am concerned.

gagrice

When do you think Toyota will dig itself out of the Mess they have made and move ahead of Ford and GM. Or will they continue the May Decline in sales. Does that make them 3rd or 4th World wide?

andres3

Sounds like that Toyota manual was written by a Japanese engineer who doesn't speak english.

Either way, there's nothing in the manual that would lead one to conclude a car would "flip" if you shifted into neutral moving along. Only a scam artist could reach that conclusion.

Again, everyone knows thats shifting into neutral is not something you would want to be doing everyday if your experiencing UA everyday. It is something you do in an emergency situation. A lot of instruction manuals mention that an automatic transmission shouldn't be towed with the drive wheels on the ground, or if it is, for less than 15 miles or something.

With the way manuals are written these days, just about everything has a yellow caution box, or a red danger box. Just about anything you do in your car can kill you.

ateixeira

he lost my potential support when he stated that he didn't shift into neutral because he thought the car might "flip".

Not only that, he also said he reached the gas pedal and pulled it up with his hands. His arms would not be long enough to attempt that.

Gary's image of the owner's manual is meaningless because noone reads them anyway.

The 911 operator instructed Sikes again and again to put it in Neutral, and he ignored those repeated commands.

ateixeira

lemko: good catch, you're right on the displacement of that V6, it was indeed 3.4 liters. The 3.5l went in the Malibu.

GM updated the Malibu's engine, the used the left over assembly line tooling to build the older engine in China for the Equinox.

ateixeira

will they continue the May Decline in sales

Sales increased 7% in May. YTD is up 11%.

That's not a decline. You even used a Capital D.

You are wrong. Or should I write: you are Wrong, capital W? :P

This morning Toyota just announced it will revive its stalled Mississippi plant to build more Corollas. Supply was constrained in May.

tbone_rare

I'm not sure an 11% increase YTD is much to be proud of. I can tell you from first hand experience.....last year sucked!!!

anythngbutgm

"Toyota drags down new-vehicle quality average; Ford leads Detroit 3 gains, J.D. Power says"

2010 IQS Nameplate Ranking
Problems per 100 vehicles

Porsche_____________________83
Acura_______________________86
Mercedes-Benz_______________87
Lexus_______________________88
Ford________________________93
Honda______________________95
Hyundai____________________102
Lincoln_____________________106
Infiniti______________________107
Volvo______________________109
Industry Average 109
Ram 110
Audi 111
Cadillac 111
Chevrolet 111
Nissan 111
BMW 113
Mercury 113
Buick 114
Mazda 114
Scion 114
Toyota 117
Subaru 121
Chrysler 122
Suzuki 122
GMC 126
Kia 126
Jeep 129
Dodge 130
Jaguar 130
Mini 133
Volkswagen 135
Mitsubishi 146
Land Rover 170

nippononly

The new plant will only be good for 150K Corollas per year (with production expected to start late 2011), so even at current sales levels they will still be bringing in 25% or more from Japan (with the consequent exchange rate losses that implies).

ateixeira

Saves (or recreates) a bunch of jobs, at least.

imidazol97

For the 2010 model year, General Motors Co., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler Group averaged 108 problems per 100 vehicles, compared with 109 problems for every 100 Asian and European vehicles, J.D. Power and Associates announced at an Automotive Press Association luncheon here today.