Toyota on the mend?

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  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited June 2010
    Sikes was following the Prius manual that says NOT to shift into neutral while moving as it may cause you to have an accident

    LOL!!!

    Unfortunately, the manual didn't have a passage stating what the driver should do once already in the midst of having an accident, which is exactly how the majority of UA events (well, if you believe those making the claim of vehicle UA, anyway) end up.

    Your anti-Toyota bias is (once again) showing.

    But, thanks for the laugh...
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Your anti-Toyota bias is (once again) showing.

    I still don't know why he won't sell his Lexus and Sequoia! :P
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I still don't know why he won't sell his Lexus and Sequoia!

    They look good sitting in my garage. I have not filled or driven the Sequoia since April 15th. I like driving the new to me Nissan Frontier much better. All around better except as a people hauler. I did start it and wiped the dust off the Sequoia the other day. Not sure what I will do with it. The Lexus is for Sundays only, and the occasional trip to the San Diego Zoo. Not to worried parking the old pig in a parking lot.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,854
    edited June 2010
    150k more cars @ 0%.
    the new 'jetta' could screw up things for everyone.
    Corolla sales: YTD 118,000 Ford F Series 193,000.
    i think there is more room for incentives with an F Series.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    They look good sitting in my garage. I have not filled or driven the Sequoia since April 15th. I like driving the new to me Nissan Frontier much better. All around better except as a people hauler. I did start it and wiped the dust off the Sequoia the other day. Not sure what I will do with it. The Lexus is for Sundays only, and the occasional trip to the San Diego Zoo. Not to worried parking the old pig in a parking lot.

    That Sequoia is a really cool driveway ornament. Especially if you wax and polish the outside.

    I think you can file PNO (planned non-operation) here in CA. But of course the crooks in Sacramento still want some money, even for that. Can't escape feeding those unions!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The Sequoia is our vacation vehicle. Gets decent mileage when it is given Non CA gas. Got 19.8 MPG on non ethanol gas.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Toyota to restart US auto plant, draws UAW ire

    UAW upset that Toyota is adding American jobs in MS while shutting down Fremont, CA. I guess they forgot that the Fremont shutdown was a GM decision?

    The UAW continues to marginalize themselves and they are too stupid to see it.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The UAW continues to marginalize themselves and they are too stupid to see it.

    You are going to see some real gnashing of teeth when Tesla with Toyota support opens the Fremont plant back up with Non Union workers. You are right. The UAW just does not get it. They have negotiated themselves out of a job in many places. I would not expect Toyota or any other auto maker to build a new factory in a non Right to Work state.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    When I moved to SC in the mid 1970's, SC (primarily the upstate region) was the textile capital of the world. Every year, the largest textile machinery show was held in Greenville, SC, and the most advanced textile equipment companies were either based there or had major offices there. For the most part, all of the manufacturing facilities were non-union, and the wages paid were not the best in the world....but, 1000's made a living from working in the mills.

    Beginning in the mid 1980's, manufacturing started moving off-shore, due to things such as NAFTA, the "opening" of 3rd world options for manufacturing, etc.

    Some facilities did unionize during that time period (remember the "Look for the union label" tune in the commercials funded by unions at that time?) primarily as a tool to forestall outsourcing of textile manufacturing. Obviously, it failed in the end.

    As far as we could see here in SC, nobody gave a tinker's damn about the lost jobs in SC that moved overseas. In the 1990's, BMW moved into the upstate area, providing decent paying jobs in a clean work environment. In fact, the BMW facility is most likely in the top 2% of US plants in using the latest technologies and minimalizing polution (65% of the energy used in the plant comes from methane gas from a nearby landfill - 8 miles away, carried directly by pipeline).

    And, SC (Charleston) has recently secured the second Boeing assembly plant in the US, which also looks very promising in the years to come.

    Both of these facilities were aided by lots of government handouts (low/no taxes on facilities, etc).

    No doubt, the lack of unionization also helped.

    As for the old textile mills, as far as I can tell, every one left in its wake a toxic waste clean-up site, costing the taxpayer to make these places safe.

    I've often wondered how many of the UAW workers (and Big-3 management, too) that are always crying for us to "buy domestic" ever gave any thought to buying domestic when it came to textile related products 10-20 years ago. And, I also wonder exactly who the Big-3 expected to be able to afford buying their products, as they took every opportunity to move production off-shore in order to save costs.

    This isn't an attempt to disparage the Big-3, the UAW or anyone else. I simply recognize that there are a lot of facets to these issues. And, if one company moves its production off-shore to maximize profits, it has little impact. When they all do it, there isn't anyone else left that can afford to buy their products.

    At the same time, I would much rather fight a trade war than a "shooting" war.

    There has to be a compromise somewhere.

    As the story goes, Henry Ford recognized his workers had to be able to afford his cars, so he lowered prices and raised wages. But, Henry also introduced work-flow management, attempting to drill every last bit of productivity out of each and every worker... a big reason the UAW came about. I wonder what Henry would think if he were alive today...
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I tried my darnedest to buy U.S. manufactured apparel and textiles until it became an exercise in futility. To buy anything American-made, you've got to go online and buy from specialty manufacturers. You're very unlikely to find it at your local big box store or shopping mall.

    Ford Motor Company was the last major automobile manufacturer to accept the UAW. Old Henry Ford was a corporate terrorist who used his own private police force lead by a thug named Harry Bennett to opress his workforce. Old Henry Ford published an anti-Semitic newspaper, accepted a citation from Hitler, and drove his own son Edsel to an early grave. I think old Henry Ford would love to be CEO of Wal~Mart.

    Speaking of textiles, Toyota got its start as a loom manufacturer.
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    And wasnt it good old Henry Ford who, to save a buck, or a penny bought light bulbs from a company in Japan, Mazda?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,579
    Wasn't Mazda just a brand of bulbs, unconnected to the car? I think it was an Edison brand.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited June 2010
    I thought Mazda was the brand name of light bulbs sold via General Electric by old Henry's buddy Thomas Edison?

    Mazda was a trademarked name used by General Electric and others for incandescent light bulbs from 1909 through 1945; Mazda brand light bulbs were made for decades after 1945 outside the USA. The company chose the name due to its association with [Ahura] Mazda, the transcendental and universal God of Zoroastrianism whose name means "[Wise] Lord " in the Avestan language.

    The company licensed the Mazda name, socket sizes, and tungsten filament technology to other manufacturers in order to set a standard for lighting. Bulbs were soon sold by many manufacturers with the Mazda name attached, including Westinghouse. The company advertised their new tungsten bulb standard with paintings by Maxfield Parrish.

    The company dropped the campaign in 1945 in the face of competition from Japan. Today, the Mazda name is mostly associated with the Mazda automobile manufacturer of Japan. The Mazda trademark is now split between the Japanese manufacturer where it applies to automobiles (including automobile lights and batteries) and General Electric for non-automotive uses.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    image
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    Ironically, my wife just bought some 0 to 6 months socks at Wal-Mart for our soon-to-be born grandson, and guess what... they were Made in USA. Amazing...
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I don't know which is more amazing, that you found U.S. made socks or that you found them at Wal~Mart! :confuse:
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    The end of the perception of import brand superiority?

    http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2010/06/us_carmakers_top_quality_ranki.html-
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,966
    edited June 2010
    Since JD Powers is simply an advertisement influenced by the highest bidders, I give it no credence whatsoever.

    However, the superiority is still intact from credible sources, like CR.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Only days into his reign as the new head of the UAW, King is already making waves as he has called the UAW members to picket Toyota dealers nationwide, along with a banner campaign at dealers in hopes of pressuring Toyota Motor Corp. to allow the UAW to unionize across all of its facilities in the U.S, according to Automotive News.

    You have to wonder how they plan to pull that off. With only a handful of states with UAW workers, who are they going to hire for the picket lines? Maybe get ACORN involved. The Unions are treading on thin ice as it is. People are getting fed up with over paid public union employees. Many see the UAW as the major cause of GM going under. And the subsequent cost to the US Tax Payer. Rather than stir up the populace more they should be negotiating their contracts to meet the fair wages Toyota is paying their people. If Toyota was so bad to work for they would have signed UAW cards and voted the union to represent them. The UAW has tried and failed many times.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You compared a country (USA) to a continent (Asia), more specifically:

    Overall, Japanese brands averaged 108 problems per 100 models surveyed, a tie with U.S. domestic brands

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100617/RETAIL/100619882/142- 4#ixzz0rVu8eKCs

    Still an excellent result for the domestics.

    Let's see if that's also true for the Durability Study, which is still dominated by Japanese brands.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't know which is more amazing, that you found U.S. made socks or that you found them at Wal~Mart!

    Bua-ha--ha-ha!

    Good one.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,705
    >You compared a country (USA) to a continent (Asia),

    Huh?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Link since I mentioned it:

    http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2010/03/jd-power-reliability-dependability.html

    IMHO this is more signifant by far because this is when vehicles go out of warranty. Who cares if the manufacturer has to pay, or if it's a recall? I care about out-of-warranty repairs that will cost me money.

    Sweet, all 3 of my cars made that list. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I was referring to the IQ results.

    They compared the USA brands to Japan+Korea.

    It would make more sense to compare country to country, i.e. USA vs. Japan. Not USA vs. Asia.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Since JD Powers is simply an advertisement influenced by the highest bidders, I give it no credence whatsoever.

    Didn't I just read that somewhere?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not from me ...

    IQ is 90 days, first 3 months under warranty. It's an early indication at best.

    I wanna know how it'll do after the warranty expires...
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,705
    >USA vs. Japan

    I understand now. Thanks.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I guess it sounded like a World Cup Match, LOL.

    USA 108, Japan 108.

    I want to see that many goals in a soccer match. :D
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I want to see that many goals in a soccer match

    That would make it a lot less boring. I have never seen the reason people get excited by Soccer. They run back and forth for it seems like hours without anyone making any points. I guess that is why the horns. To keep people awake.
  • xluxlu Member Posts: 457
    Let's see if that's also true for the Durability Study, which is still dominated by Japanese brands.

    Not so; this is the latest 2010 JD Power Dependability Study results:

    Brand Problems per 100 vehicles

    Porsche 110
    Lincoln 114
    Buick 115
    Lexus 115
    Mercury 121
    Toyota 128
    Honda 132
    Ford 141
    M-B 142
    Acura 143
    Hyundai 148
    Cadillac 150
    Infiniti 150
    Subaru 155
    Industry average 155

    In top 5, 3 American; 1 each of EU and Japan
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,579
    Not EU, German...stick French and/or Italian makes in an EU number, and I can guarantee that number would shoot up :shades:
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I want to see that many goals in a soccer match.

    Pull the goalies!
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Its the VW influence on Porsche. :) MB is still not doing as well as it should.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    so much for Mercury! Its not going to exist after this year anymore!
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,966
    edited June 2010
    Who cares if the manufacturer has to pay, or if it's a recall? I care about out-of-warranty repairs that will cost me money.

    Well, I can think of a few reasons. You don't really care how much the manufacturer has to pay under warranty to fix things, except that warranty costs (that is SKY HIGH) warranty costs is one of the reasons the Big 3 went under and required bailouts; so maybe we should care since our tax money funds GM & Chrysler warranties.

    2nd, you have to waste a lot of time and gas, and mileage to and from the dealer over and over to get warranty work done. Trust me, I've had a Big 3 car and although the out of warranty costs is what really made me hate it after the warranty expired, I'd say 40% of my hatred stems from how much wasted times with breakdowns and other problems I had with the car. Wasted time, wasted gas, wasted effort and energy. Don't forget being left stranded.

    I do agree, however, that initial quality and 3 year quality do not measure reliability or dependability, as that is a long term measure by definition, and long term is 5 to 10 years, not 0 to 3 years.

    JD Powers is a joke.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • xluxlu Member Posts: 457
    so much for Mercury! Its not going to exist after this year anymore!

    Yep, even a dying brand is more reliable than Toyota....
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Aren't some Eastern European countries now part of the EU? That would really ratchet up the numbers!
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    Problem is, that couldn't be further from the truth. The dependability study, just like all the other JD Power studies, only reports up to the 3 year mark! So we know nothing of long term reliability at 4, 5, and 6+ years, which for me is the most important.

    Toyota is more reliable long-term then Mercury could ever hope to be, on avg of course. If Mercury is so great, why is it another dying brand? huh, answer that one! Brands that are reliable, make profit, have competitive models, etc don't have to be shutdown! Since it is being shut-down, tells me that Mercury sucks!

    But I do think its a smart decision Ford is making since Mercuries are pratically rebadged Fords, something GM has lots of experiencing with as I recall and Ford doesn't want to make the mistakes GM did :P
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,579
    I'd take a Skoda over quite a few French or Italian models. Still lots of horror stories about build quality. A Dacia might also do no worse, very simple cars. On the note from that chart about MB improving, I see it still bested Caddy, although the MBs are a bazillion times more complex. I take it the Escalade drags down the numbers.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Germans always liked to make things more complex just for the heck of it. During WWII, a breech assembly for a German piece of artillery used 45 separate pieces compared to only 8 for the American one. I am intriqued by the new E-Class, but still frightened by the experiences my BIL has had with his 2000 S430. I have had great luck with Cadillac and see now reason to look elsewhere. I once thought of getting a Lexus LS430 years ago and would've probably ended up with the biggest lemon that came off the line!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I take it the Escalade drags down the numbers.

    There would be no Cadillac left if not for the Escalade. It saved the brand plain and simple. The only thing they sell I would drive. So Escalade may drag down the numbers on JDP. They bring up the $numbers that really count when selling vehicles.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Heck, the Escalade is the one product they sell I'd be LEAST likely to buy. The DTS is my preferred choice.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The difference is I need a rural cruiser and you an urban cruiser. If my wife liked the looks of the Escalade I would have bought it instead of the Sequoia. I could have gotten a killer deal on the Caddy as I did on the Sequoia in late 2007. I really like De La Fuente Cadillac better than any of the Toyota dealers. The GMC Buick dealer is another story. More like an arrogant ToyLex dealer. Not as bad as the local Honda dealer.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,579
    edited June 2010
    Complexity for the sake of complexity...that explains the W220 your BIL owns. I am not so worried by later models...W221 cars have been on the road for 4 years now with no huge issues, and are even "recommended" by CR. If I was looking for a luxobarge, a CPO W221 would be at the top of my list. The new E has also been on the road for over a year now and doesn't have any big issues that I know of.

    I've had relatively similar luck to you and your Caddys with the MB I have owned...but I have been careful to avoid certain cars, and on the E55 bought a warranty to take care of a few teething issues. I can't complain.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,579
    I don't know if that says more about the bad taste of the average American car buyer rather than the merits of the vehicle. I would think it is a safe bet to say the Escalade drags down Caddy's quality related stats.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited June 2010
    Look at the models chosen, top 3 in each class, most of the Toyota/Lexus/Scion lineup in on that list.

    Here's one article:

    http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/news/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2010034

    Toyota continues to perform well in long-term dependability and garners four segment awards-more than any other nameplate in 2010

    Can't spin that.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    2nd, you have to waste a lot of time and gas, and mileage to and from the dealer over and over to get warranty work done

    Not necessarily - most of the time you could just have the work done at your next schedule oil change. Most owners would not have to go out of their way much.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'd take a Skoda over quite a few French or Italian models

    Skoda is basically low-budget Volkswagon nowadays.

    Less stuff, so less to break, I suppose. I bet they have fewer problems than VW merely because they have less content.
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