Doesn't surprise me at all - go after the deepest pockets (Toyota).
Still doesn't seem fair. The dealers in this region decided to go on their own and find an outside, aftermarket cruise control. Toyota even loses revenue, so I doubt it has their blessing, they probably had no choice (dealer lobbies are powerful).
I don't see why they couldn't use Toyota parts. I bought a car and had cruise installed after the purchase, but I asked for a got OEM parts. It wasn't even expensive, a couple hundred or so IIRC.
As for dealers, they are independently owned and operated. I'm sure Toyota has guidelines and agreements, but I doubt they have much control if a dealer goes aftermarket to install things like:
* moonroof * cruise control * DVD players * canvas landau roof
etc.
Doesn't seem fair (at all) to blame Toyota if a DVD gets stuck in a DVD player made by an outsider.
Or in a more extreme case - what if a car rolls over, the roof gets crushed, but it's because an aftermarket moonroof installer cut out a major B-pillar support beam to install a moonroof.
Doesn't seem fair (at all) to blame Toyota if a DVD gets stuck in a DVD player made by an outsider.
If toyota owns Denso that makes the DVD player why not? It is part of the warranty. Don't expect toyota to cover your DVD player after the warranty is gone. No matter who made it.
I do agree in the case in MN that toyota is not likely responsible. They will get the negative media attention. Maybe the automakers will look a bit closer at what their dealers install that could affect the operation of the vehicle. I know the CC on my 1978 Honda Accord was dealer installed and NEVER worked right from day one. I gave up on it.
Yes, it would not be fair if Toyota actually has specific dealership agreement/contract restrictions regarding this practice of installing non-Toyoa cruise controls. But Toyota could still be at fault too, ie. if they don't, and might legally be anyway just because these dealerships carry name Toyota.
Toyota sells vehicles in many countries, has excellent legal attorneys, and should have these dealership agreements/contracts legally perfected tightly controlled quite well.
Seems biggest question is - what is precisely in those/these dealership contracts??
Denso, absolutely, that is basically a Toyota subsidiary, so ownership of the company can be traced to the same place.
Not to mention Denso would be OEM because they supply the original parts, not aftermarket.
But in this case we're talking about an aftermarket supplier. So imagine a DVD player made by, say, Samsung, a Korean supplier, goes bad. I don't see how that's Toyota's liability. It's the dealer's or the supplier's.
1st of all... This is America, and anyone can sue anyone for anything anytime. One shouldn't confuse filing a suit with winning a suit, although for many, those 2 actions are the same thing (in their mind).
2nd-ly, Take a look at Harley-Davidson and their dealer network. If a manufacturer could be held liable for the actions of its dealers (who install non-Harley options hourly on bikes), Harley would have disappeared years ago... So, I find it difficult to believe anyone would prevail against Toyota "proper" in a lawsuit aimed at a dealer installed feature UNLESS Toyota signed off on the accessory/item being installed.
And, I doubt that is the case. And remember, Toyota the manufacturer is a different company from the 4 or so US Toyota automobile distributors in the USA.
SET has their hooks pretty deep into Toyota. Depending on what the agreement is, Toyota could be on the hook. For example, if the cruise control was represented as 'Toyota authorized'.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
SET has their hooks pretty deep into Toyota. Depending on what the agreement is, Toyota could be on the hook. For example, if the cruise control was represented as 'Toyota authorized'.
Oh, I completely agree with you...But, there will have to be a clear chain of evidence showing Toyota/manufacturer or Toyota/distributor actually "authorized" the components....which they may indeed have done, but at this point is only a big "IF". Just because a dealer represented it as such means very little.
In the end... That's an issue for the courts to decide.
Dealers are private entities. Even if Toyota authorized a different cruise control, that may only mean it was compatible. Further, by authorizing doesn't necessarily mean responsibility for workmanship issues. Courts can be funny, but my guess is that even if a court finds against Toyota, it will ultimately prevail in appeals. I know this will not be accepted by the Toyota bashers though! They seem as close minded as the D3 bashers.
it looks like cruise control was a standard feature on all the the base DX model, which had a manual trans. auto was optional and cruise was not listed as an option. probably why so few were listed in the recall.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
made the cruise control in that NHTSA complaint, not Toyota. Rostra is an aftermarket company that makes cruise for all different makes and models, not just Toyotas. As a matter of fact my Echo which was originally sold by SET (or was it Gulf States Toyota? I can't keep track of which one covers east Texas) out of Texas has a dealer-installed Rostra cruise which has worked perfectly for a number of years now.
Rostra has nothing to do with Toyota though, and Toyota doesn't "authorize" the use of Rostra cruise in its cars. But it is very common for Toyota dealers everywhere (including right here in California) to install Rostra cruise units on Toyota models and trims for which factory cruise is unavailable (really common examples were all the early Scion xA and xB models, none of which had factory cruise available). I have always thought that Toyota was really stupid not to just offer and equip cars with cruise control for all models and trims regardless of their price point, as it is just losing money to the Rostras of the world by not doing so.
I sure hope there isn't any legal basis for holding Toyota accountable for this failure of the Rostra unit - they have nothing to do with its design or construction. It is just like the Samsung or aftermarket moonroof examples above.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
As mentioned before, I had cruise installed on my 98 Forester L when I bought it. The dealer used OE parts, though. I remember specifically being told that Subaru's warranty would cover the part only if I used OE parts and only if it was done in the first ... 30? 90? days from the purchase. I don't remember the exact number of days.
But basically it had to be OE parts installed when the car was still new, for Subaru to honor it with their warranty.
I'm pretty certain Toyota has a similar policy and dealers are well aware of it.
Nowadays tuners like Lingenfelter will warranty their engine items, but they cover it themselves, not, say, GM in the case of a tuned Corvette.
I don't see Toyota as responsible. The problem is a man has spent 4 years in jail, and it could have been a failure of a component in a Toyota. The car was about 10 years old at the time of the accident. To my way of thinking it could be normal wear and tear on a throttle cable that caused the accident. If the prosecution had not been so gungho to send the guy to jail, they may have done a bit more investigation as to what went wrong with the car. Even if Toyota is only implicated as the car with a stuck throttle cable. It has not come at a good time for them.
The car owner does have to take some responsibility in maintaining a vehicle in safe condition. Did the car act up prior to this accident? If so did he take it to a mechanic to check out? If it turns out he had one of the CC units that had a known problem, the OEM that built it would be implicated. I expect the state of MN to get hit the hardest on this one.
A couple of wrong words change the whole meaning of my post. What i meant to write was that the DX model did not offer cruise control as a factory option, so those are probably the only ones affected by the aftermarket cruise control. Cruise control was standard on all other models.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
“By building Tacoma in Texas, we are able to consolidate pickup truck production in the United States under one roof, allowing us to fully utilize the plant’s capacity.”
Well guess what : The Govt says Toyota electronics aren`t a problem and were not at fault.. Right from the beginning this was a witchhunt. Trying to create smoke when there is no fire. But this was a good kick up toyota`s backside. And they will come back much better with more attention to quality .. Win win for the buyer.. And as GM says-'may the best car win " LOL !! The best cars are indeed winning !! Blatant attempt by Govt motors / Goner motors / Obama motors to discredit Toyota .:P http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38645077/ns/business-autos/
More spin with little factual data. From your article:
Olivia Alair, a Transportation Department spokeswoman, said the review of the black boxes was "one small part" of the investigation, which is expected to be completed later in the fall.
Alair said they were still at an "early period in the investigation" and experts with NASA and NHTSA were "conducting research at labs across the United States to determine whether there are potential electronic or software defects in Toyotas that can cause unintended acceleration."
Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood and NHTSA Administrator David Strickland briefed members of the House Energy and Commerce Committee on the findings of the government review. LaHood and Strickland declined comment following the meeting.
Rep. Bart Stupak, a Michigan Democrat, who has led a House investigation into the Toyota recalls, said following the briefing that the findings did not settle the issue of whether electronics could be a culprit. "We've got a long ways to go. We are not ready to make a conclusion one way or another," Stupak told reporters.
More of the same wishful thinking on the part of Toyota fans. Similar to the info WSJ spewed that was refuted by NHTSA.
NHTSA themselves acknowledge the data and not refute it. No wishful thinking here from a Toyo fan. Govt motors trying to deflect attention from their incompetent legacy !!! Facts are facts ! If GM was not Garbage motors,Toyota would never have succeeded in US .Look at Suzuki and Mitsu which also are [non-permissible content removed] name plates. More spin from GM fans, I guess !!:P
Here's the Straightline story (NHTSA Finds No Evidence of Electronic Glitches in 58 Toyota Crashes).
"Five of the 58 black box recorders that NHTSA examined had no data. Of the remaining 53, 35 indicated that the brakes were not applied. Fourteen more showed evidence of partial braking. Data was inclusive on one black box, and another included evidence from an unrelated crash. The remaining two black boxes reportedly showed evidence of simultaneous brake and throttle application."
Ahaaaa. Here's more info for the tinhat toyo supporters: Chrysler is involved in the attempt to discredit toyota-lexus. Obama's recent trip to Detroit was actually an undercover mission to help Chrysler undercut toyota's quality automobiles. He made a secret stop at the facilities to tell the Chrysler and NASA folks what outcome he wanted for the test. He probably offered them a stimulus check if they do a good job.
>NHTSA also disclosed it is partnering with NASA in Auburn Hills in researching the issue. NHTSA and NASA are conducting vehicle tests at the Chrysler Group LLC Test Facility in Auburn Hills to determine whether electromagnetic interference may play a role in causing unintended acceleration.
Great !! Chrysler using more of our tax payer money to discredit Toyota. Seriously !! Fix yourself before finding fault in others.. What a joke - Obamarysler !!! :shades:
1.Not many people know that you got to shift to neutral in that scenario. You will be surprised at the # of folks who dont know this.
2.Holding down the ignition button for 3 sec to switch off - that to me is plain ridiculous. Wonder why they dont change that. They can have different push buttons for start and stop--green one for start and red one for stop with each button labeled clearly and boldly. Beats me why they dont do this. Holding down 3 sec to switch off-- I dont know how many folks would even think of that especially in an emergency situation.
Well, we've rehashed this over and over. A trained highway patrol cop is too panicked to shift into neutral? The brother-in-law on the phone to 911 didn't take a second to tell Saylor to shift into neutral?
And Saylor had a similar car with the same on/off button, so it wasn't entirely unfamiliar to him.
Folks, for those of you who haven't pls read these stories, real life toyota crash cases one by one, slowly, examine the circumstances, how it happened, at what speed, and examine the photos, there are seven pages in all, don't miss any of it :
Then make up your mind, could DRIVER ERROR really caused these nasty crashes ? Could those drivers be really so careless that they failed even to press the brakes or failed to change their wrong pedal that result in such HIGH SPEED crashes ?
Its an insult to these victims and their families when one claim its driver not braking or pressing the wrong pedal that results in their deaths.
I forgot the photo link, here is it, pls examine them, and tell me, is it really Driver error ? There are many pages in all more than 30, including the victims faces and their car wrecks, don't miss any :
I'm with you on this lame try by Toyota and the media to blame all the SUA in ToyLex vehicles on the drivers. Maybe the ones that crash into the garage door or a vehicle close to them. Not the ones that get up to 60-70-80-120 MPH before crashing. That is beyond believable. And it happens more to Toyota vehicles than all others combined.
NHTSA says there is a lot more research ahead. And the WSJ had a different spin with ALL cases blamed on driver error. Now the latest has some hit brake, some hit both. And what about the 100s of accidents prior to the EDR being put in the vehicles? Those reports started flowing into the ODI, long before toyota figured out how to build an EDR that would work. I am not convinced it works now. If it does not store WOT data as proven by Dr. Gilbert.
PS If toyota's EDR is not ready for primetime as they have admitted. Why is it being used as evidence. And if it is not ready, maybe their ECUs are also flaky.
Some here try to spin their hope for toyota saying that all those people pictured are just incompetent and wouldn't have known an emergency brake pedal from a bike pedal. Or that they are old so they deserved to die for their demented incompetence.
The pictures all look competent to me.
The grasping of straws on the phrase that "so far" no flaws have been found.
I have had many computer crashes through the years. The usual result is there's no sign left of what caused the software to crash after the crash occurred. Same for toyota-lexus' software/firmware/hardware incompatibility. There was something wrong. And the toyota company now has accessed most of the cars in the pedal panic and "checked" the software and corrected it--that's why we are hearing fewer cases.
It's a fact there are hundreds of thousands of these vehicles on the road in Southern California. Many, Many, Camry, Prius, amd Yaris. I would say that probably more Toyota automobiles than ANY OTHER STATE. Yet, there have been very, very, few SUA caes. Yea, I know that "it started here". However, we know about the case involing the CHP officier and the other involving the guy with the at best "dubious personality".
There have not been any more. In my community, there are so many Toyotas on the road - I could stand on any street corner and see them plow in to each other if they were defective. And you cannot ignore the average age of those drivers involved. It's very high.
Audi - from their same SUA situation back in the 70s, have still not been proven guilty.
There will always be those who want a death wish for Toyota. It's my thinking they will come out just fine.
"I for one NEVER got my pedals wrong. And I believe 99.999% of us all also never press the wrong pedal. My experience tells me that the driving habit and our legs are so INGRAINED in our subconscious that we don't even think about it. We just automatically press the right pedal, every day, every hour etc...Like breathing. Do you think about it ? Are you exhaling or inhaling now ? You don't."
You obviously have not been around people on medication, and those who are in their 70's, 80's and 90's still behind the wheel of an automobile. Hang out in Florida or Palm Springs, CA for a while. You would be changing the content of your post.
I bet you also believe that Elvis is still alive. FYI, there is no investigation on Toyota UA in Europe, why? Because their agency is highly techinical not a political appointee and lawyers who know sh@# about techinical in charge of NHTSA. Similar to Audi 5000 fiasco that been dragged by NHTSA for many years to come out with a conclusion - the driver push on the wrong pedal!
there is no investigation on Toyota UA in Europe, why?
Better check your sources. They failed you on that one.
Although Toyota has repeatedly said its unintended acceleration problems were not the fault of electronic gremlins, three UK engineers have found proof the issue does in fact stem from electromagnetic interference (EMI).
The British engineers say the faults may not have been detected by Toyota’s own testing procedures, but have found through their own research that not all of Toyota’s on-board electronics are properly protected from EMI.
“Thirty years’ empirical evidence overwhelmingly points to (sudden acceleration) being caused by electronic system faults undetectable by inspection or testing,” said UK-based engineering consultant, Mr Keith Armstrong.
Mr Armstrong and his two colleagues, Antony Anderson and Brian Kirk, will travel to the United States today where they will report their findings to National Highway Traffic Safety Administrations (NHTSA) officials.
However, the NHTSA found that EMI could disrupt the normal function of the ECU several years ago. And just put it out of their minds. Now it is being investigated again. With the final report due sometime around June of 2011.
Although NHTSA subsequently assured Rep. Waxman that they had access to technical expertise, and Secretary LaHood amended DOT’s testimony to clarify that NHTSA had two electrical engineers on staff, the issue of NHTSA’s technical capabilities continued to draw scrutiny and pressure from Capitol Hill.
In March, DOT announced that the National Research Council (NRC) and its Transportation Research Board had been tasked to form a “Committee on Electronic Vehicle Controls and Unintended Acceleration.” The project began on 26 March, with a projected 15-month review leading to a final report.
It was also announced that NHTSA had enlisted NASA engineers with expertise in computer-controlled systems, electromagnetic interference and software reliability to help support their ongoing investigation into the Toyota unintended vehicle acceleration issue.
In April, IEEE-USA sent a letter to Secretary Lahood stating that two electrical engineers was “still inadequate to allow the agency to perform the vital task of ensuring vehicle safety.” IEEE-USA recommended that NHTSA increase the number of electrical, electronics, computer and software engineers within NHTSA
And beating on Toyota, too. Are we between episodes of American Idol or Jersey Housewives or something?
After the first blush of mass hysteria, the reported incidences have all but evaporated; Toyota sales are up and the few, the proud, the obsessed Toyota critics continue to scratch for evidence of a problem. Any problem. And any evidence. But there isn't any except these three media hungry guys in England who say they've invented a carburator that runs on water. Oops, wrong story. Sorry.
If you were following the thread you would know that another poster made the claim that no one in Europe was concerned about Toyota UA. Which was not true as my link showed the UK was investigating the problem as well. And EMI can be quite strong under high voltage power lines. Such as Sikes went under when he claimed his Prius took off on him. His total silence since the incident tells me that Toyota knew about the problem and bought his silence as they have done in the past.
By the way, NHTSA found they could disrupt the ECU in Toyota cars several years ago. They dismissed it in some sort of deal with Toyota. That was part of the broohaha when the doo doo hit the fan with Toyota and Congress. If EMI is no big deal why spend millions on a test facility for just that?
Toyota is building an EMI test facility in Ann Arbor, Mich., and already has one in Japan.
No interaction on TV. How boring is that? The web fits into my schedule. Besides just about the time this whole thing with Toyota dies down, they have another recall and it starts all over. What are we up to 11 million recalls this year for ToyLex? And they still have not recalled the crazy steering on the newer Corolla's. Could be why they are not selling so well.
True Blood - vampire gore and nudity. I Survived - true stories told by the people who lived the horror and somehow lived. NFL Football - the greatest thing since the wheel was invented. Chelsea Lately - one of the funniest women ever to grace Planet Earf. Just about any show on Crime and Investigation Network. Nat Geo and Discovery channels.
If you are missing out on these shows, your life could be FAR more entertaining.
Comments
Still doesn't seem fair. The dealers in this region decided to go on their own and find an outside, aftermarket cruise control. Toyota even loses revenue, so I doubt it has their blessing, they probably had no choice (dealer lobbies are powerful).
I don't see why they couldn't use Toyota parts. I bought a car and had cruise installed after the purchase, but I asked for a got OEM parts. It wasn't even expensive, a couple hundred or so IIRC.
As for dealers, they are independently owned and operated. I'm sure Toyota has guidelines and agreements, but I doubt they have much control if a dealer goes aftermarket to install things like:
* moonroof
* cruise control
* DVD players
* canvas landau roof
etc.
Doesn't seem fair (at all) to blame Toyota if a DVD gets stuck in a DVD player made by an outsider.
Or in a more extreme case - what if a car rolls over, the roof gets crushed, but it's because an aftermarket moonroof installer cut out a major B-pillar support beam to install a moonroof.
Would that be a manufacturer's fault?
I don't think so.
If toyota owns Denso that makes the DVD player why not? It is part of the warranty. Don't expect toyota to cover your DVD player after the warranty is gone. No matter who made it.
I do agree in the case in MN that toyota is not likely responsible. They will get the negative media attention. Maybe the automakers will look a bit closer at what their dealers install that could affect the operation of the vehicle. I know the CC on my 1978 Honda Accord was dealer installed and NEVER worked right from day one. I gave up on it.
Toyota sells vehicles in many countries, has excellent legal attorneys, and should have these dealership agreements/contracts legally perfected tightly controlled quite well.
Seems biggest question is - what is precisely in those/these dealership contracts??
Not to mention Denso would be OEM because they supply the original parts, not aftermarket.
But in this case we're talking about an aftermarket supplier. So imagine a DVD player made by, say, Samsung, a Korean supplier, goes bad. I don't see how that's Toyota's liability. It's the dealer's or the supplier's.
2nd-ly, Take a look at Harley-Davidson and their dealer network. If a manufacturer could be held liable for the actions of its dealers (who install non-Harley options hourly on bikes), Harley would have disappeared years ago... So, I find it difficult to believe anyone would prevail against Toyota "proper" in a lawsuit aimed at a dealer installed feature UNLESS Toyota signed off on the accessory/item being installed.
And, I doubt that is the case. And remember, Toyota the manufacturer is a different company from the 4 or so US Toyota automobile distributors in the USA.
Depending on what the agreement is, Toyota could be on the hook.
For example, if the cruise control was represented as 'Toyota authorized'.
Depending on what the agreement is, Toyota could be on the hook.
For example, if the cruise control was represented as 'Toyota authorized'.
Oh, I completely agree with you...But, there will have to be a clear chain of evidence showing Toyota/manufacturer or Toyota/distributor actually "authorized" the components....which they may indeed have done, but at this point is only a big "IF". Just because a dealer represented it as such means very little.
In the end... That's an issue for the courts to decide.
probably why so few were listed in the recall.
Rostra has nothing to do with Toyota though, and Toyota doesn't "authorize" the use of Rostra cruise in its cars. But it is very common for Toyota dealers everywhere (including right here in California) to install Rostra cruise units on Toyota models and trims for which factory cruise is unavailable (really common examples were all the early Scion xA and xB models, none of which had factory cruise available). I have always thought that Toyota was really stupid not to just offer and equip cars with cruise control for all models and trims regardless of their price point, as it is just losing money to the Rostras of the world by not doing so.
I sure hope there isn't any legal basis for holding Toyota accountable for this failure of the Rostra unit - they have nothing to do with its design or construction. It is just like the Samsung or aftermarket moonroof examples above.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
But basically it had to be OE parts installed when the car was still new, for Subaru to honor it with their warranty.
I'm pretty certain Toyota has a similar policy and dealers are well aware of it.
Nowadays tuners like Lingenfelter will warranty their engine items, but they cover it themselves, not, say, GM in the case of a tuned Corvette.
The car owner does have to take some responsibility in maintaining a vehicle in safe condition. Did the car act up prior to this accident? If so did he take it to a mechanic to check out? If it turns out he had one of the CC units that had a known problem, the OEM that built it would be implicated. I expect the state of MN to get hit the hardest on this one.
What i meant to write was that the DX model did not offer cruise control as a factory option, so those are probably the only ones affected by the aftermarket cruise control.
Cruise control was standard on all other models.
“By building Tacoma in Texas, we are able to consolidate pickup truck production in the United States under one roof, allowing us to fully utilize the plant’s capacity.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38645077/ns/business-autos/
Olivia Alair, a Transportation Department spokeswoman, said the review of the black boxes was "one small part" of the investigation, which is expected to be completed later in the fall.
Alair said they were still at an "early period in the investigation" and experts with NASA and NHTSA were "conducting research at labs across the United States to determine whether there are potential electronic or software defects in Toyotas that can cause unintended acceleration."
Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood and NHTSA Administrator David Strickland briefed members of the House Energy and Commerce Committee on the findings of the government review. LaHood and Strickland declined comment following the meeting.
Rep. Bart Stupak, a Michigan Democrat, who has led a House investigation into the Toyota recalls, said following the briefing that the findings did not settle the issue of whether electronics could be a culprit. "We've got a long ways to go. We are not ready to make a conclusion one way or another," Stupak told reporters.
More of the same wishful thinking on the part of Toyota fans. Similar to the info WSJ spewed that was refuted by NHTSA.
"Five of the 58 black box recorders that NHTSA examined had no data. Of the remaining 53, 35 indicated that the brakes were not applied. Fourteen more showed evidence of partial braking. Data was inclusive on one black box, and another included evidence from an unrelated crash. The remaining two black boxes reportedly showed evidence of simultaneous brake and throttle application."
>NHTSA also disclosed it is partnering with NASA in Auburn Hills in researching the issue. NHTSA and NASA are conducting vehicle tests at the Chrysler Group LLC Test Facility in Auburn Hills to determine whether electromagnetic interference may play a role in causing unintended acceleration.
From The Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/article/20100810/AUTO01/8100419/1361/NHTSA--No-evidence-o- - - f-Toyota-electronics-problems#ixzz0wFc5cNCR
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You might have missed the tinhat paranoia allusion in my sarcasm?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
i won't get any more technical than that.
35 - no brakes
14 - partial braking
1 - inconclusive
1 - data from unrelated crash (whatever that means)
2 - brakes + throttle
So we're really down to just 2 cases.
Automotive News headline was "US study finds driver error in most Toyota accidents", so hold the spin accusations. Reverse spin is more like it.
They also said NHTSA "saw no evidence of electronics-related causes for the accidents in reviewing the vehicle recorders".
Wonder if the 2 cases where brakes and throttle were applied has the recalled CTS pedals?
Or piles of floormats?
2.Holding down the ignition button for 3 sec to switch off - that to me is plain ridiculous. Wonder why they dont change that. They can have different push buttons for start and stop--green one for start and red one for stop with each button labeled clearly and boldly. Beats me why they dont do this. Holding down 3 sec to switch off-- I dont know how many folks would even think of that especially in an emergency situation.
And Saylor had a similar car with the same on/off button, so it wasn't entirely unfamiliar to him.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/28/business/la-fi-toyota-deaths-mainbar28-2- 010feb28
Then make up your mind, could DRIVER ERROR really caused these nasty crashes ? Could those drivers be really so careless that they failed even to press the brakes or failed to change their wrong pedal that result in such HIGH SPEED crashes ?
Its an insult to these victims and their families when one claim its driver not braking or pressing the wrong pedal that results in their deaths.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-deaths-list28-2010feb28-pictures,0,- - 131320.photogallery
NHTSA says there is a lot more research ahead. And the WSJ had a different spin with ALL cases blamed on driver error. Now the latest has some hit brake, some hit both. And what about the 100s of accidents prior to the EDR being put in the vehicles? Those reports started flowing into the ODI, long before toyota figured out how to build an EDR that would work. I am not convinced it works now. If it does not store WOT data as proven by Dr. Gilbert.
PS
If toyota's EDR is not ready for primetime as they have admitted. Why is it being used as evidence. And if it is not ready, maybe their ECUs are also flaky.
The pictures all look competent to me.
The grasping of straws on the phrase that "so far" no flaws have been found.
I have had many computer crashes through the years. The usual result is there's no sign left of what caused the software to crash after the crash occurred. Same for toyota-lexus' software/firmware/hardware incompatibility. There was something wrong. And the toyota company now has accessed most of the cars in the pedal panic and "checked" the software and corrected it--that's why we are hearing fewer cases.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
There have not been any more. In my community, there are so many Toyotas on the road - I could stand on any street corner and see them plow in to each other if they were defective. And you cannot ignore the average age of those drivers involved. It's very high.
Audi - from their same SUA situation back in the 70s, have still not been proven guilty.
There will always be those who want a death wish for Toyota. It's my thinking they will come out just fine.
You obviously have not been around people on medication, and those who are in their 70's, 80's and 90's still behind the wheel of an automobile. Hang out in Florida or Palm Springs, CA for a while. You would be changing the content of your post.
Better check your sources. They failed you on that one.
Although Toyota has repeatedly said its unintended acceleration problems were not the fault of electronic gremlins, three UK engineers have found proof the issue does in fact stem from electromagnetic interference (EMI).
The British engineers say the faults may not have been detected by Toyota’s own testing procedures, but have found through their own research that not all of Toyota’s on-board electronics are properly protected from EMI.
“Thirty years’ empirical evidence overwhelmingly points to (sudden acceleration) being caused by electronic system faults undetectable by inspection or testing,” said UK-based engineering consultant, Mr Keith Armstrong.
Mr Armstrong and his two colleagues, Antony Anderson and Brian Kirk, will travel to the United States today where they will report their findings to National Highway Traffic Safety Administrations (NHTSA) officials.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/62258/uk-engineers-find-toyotas-unintended-accelerat- ion-problems-stem-from-emi/
Audi was a design problem with ergonomics. No electronics involved.
Of course that's because it enables dumping on Toyota.
I'll bet if GM cars were in the same situation it would be driver error. :P
I'm sure there's NO affect on perception due to the car company. :shades:
There will always be those who want a death wish for Toyota. It's my thinking they will come out just fine.
I daresay their quality descending into crappy is going to hurt them a lot more than SUA.
Although NHTSA subsequently assured Rep. Waxman that they had access to technical expertise, and Secretary LaHood amended DOT’s testimony to clarify that NHTSA had two electrical engineers on staff, the issue of NHTSA’s technical capabilities continued to draw scrutiny and pressure from Capitol Hill.
In March, DOT announced that the National Research Council (NRC) and its Transportation Research Board had been tasked to form a “Committee on Electronic Vehicle Controls and Unintended Acceleration.” The project began on 26 March, with a projected 15-month review leading to a final report.
It was also announced that NHTSA had enlisted NASA engineers with expertise in computer-controlled systems, electromagnetic interference and software reliability to help support their ongoing investigation into the Toyota unintended vehicle acceleration issue.
In April, IEEE-USA sent a letter to Secretary Lahood stating that two electrical engineers was “still inadequate to allow the agency to perform the vital task of ensuring vehicle safety.” IEEE-USA recommended that NHTSA increase the number of electrical, electronics, computer and software engineers within NHTSA
http://www.todaysengineer.org/2010/Aug/NHTSA.asp
After the first blush of mass hysteria, the reported incidences have all but evaporated; Toyota sales are up and the few, the proud, the obsessed Toyota critics continue to scratch for evidence of a problem. Any problem. And any evidence. But there isn't any except these three media hungry guys in England who say they've invented a carburator that runs on water. Oops, wrong story. Sorry.
John
And where is this "mysterious EMI signal" even coming from?
You believe THESE U.K. guys have figured out what no one in the USA or NASA could figure out?
I'll believe it when I see a demonstration of them causing UA with EMI.
Until then, I call B.S., also know as poppycock.
By the way, NHTSA found they could disrupt the ECU in Toyota cars several years ago. They dismissed it in some sort of deal with Toyota. That was part of the broohaha when the doo doo hit the fan with Toyota and Congress. If EMI is no big deal why spend millions on a test facility for just that?
Toyota is building an EMI test facility in Ann Arbor, Mich., and already has one in Japan.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2010-02-23-Electromagnetic23_CV_N.htm
That could be part of the problem. Neither Gagrice or me watch TV.
The net is way more entertaining. :shades:
True Blood - vampire gore and nudity.
I Survived - true stories told by the people who lived the horror and somehow lived.
NFL Football - the greatest thing since the wheel was invented.
Chelsea Lately - one of the funniest women ever to grace Planet Earf.
Just about any show on Crime and Investigation Network.
Nat Geo and Discovery channels.
If you are missing out on these shows, your life could be FAR more entertaining.