You are a hard core Toyota fan for sure. Toyota Corolla steering problems prompt complaints to feds
UPDATE: Federal safety officials say they will look into complaints from Toyota Corolla drivers about difficulty with the steering on their vehicles. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has received about 80 complaints from drivers of 2009 and 2010 Corollas. Many say their cars can wander when they drive on the highway, making it hard to stay in lanes.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is thinking of opening another investigation, Automotive News reports. This time, it would look into possible power steering defects in the Corolla, the nation's second-best-selling car last year with 874,000 sold.
Toyota has received 83 complaints about power steering problems, 76 of which caused the car to veer right or left at speeds over 40 miles an hour, the News found. The reported defect has resulted in 10 accidents and six injuries. Reporter Neil Roland writes:
Yes, one must have hope. Like after Dec 7 1941, when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour and took over almost the whole of Asia. And during the Battle of Midway, the US has only 3 aircraft carriers - The Enterprise, the Hornet, and the Yorktown and a small group of escorts. And equipped with old torpedo bombers.
And they are facing a mighty Japanese fleet comprising of 4 of Japan's best carriers and their best Navy pilots - The Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu, Soryu, and toyota (hehe). All heavily escorted with many battleships, cruisers and destroyers. And with nimble Zero fighters and Bombers.
On paper, it should have been a massacre. But guess what, the Japanese got smug, got proud (just like toyota today), they totally underestimate the American resolve to get even for Pearl Harbour and save the mainland from invasion.
Result, for those of you who did not know history : All 4 Japanese carriers are sunk, with most of the seasoned Japanese pilots dead. Only 1 US carrier was sunk, and that was by a submarine, not by the Japanese naval pilots.
It was a stunning US victory that totally turned the tide of the war in the Pacific. From then on the Japanese are on the defensive.
Now the US faced a new threat much like the Japanese carriers : Proud big toyota selling ever decreasing quality cars to make more and more money from the US. Do what the US Navy did in 1941 folks, kick them all the way back to Japan.
But this is not about racism or anti-Japanese stuff. Its about refusing to support corporations without honour. There are other good Japanese, Asian automakers around, Nissan, Honda, Hyundai. Go support them if you wish. But pls, not yoyota.
ben66, you forgot one two very important Asian carmakers that should be supported above and over and beyond toyota (notice I spelled Toyota with a small t)and they are Kia Motors of South Korea and Mitsubishi of Japan. I'm not sayin' these two are choirboys for honesty, but, I have not heard of any such blatant out and out lies coming from either of them for....years.
A little bird told me that in some Galant engines there was some problem and Mitsu didn't immediately report it or covered it up (sound familiar?) for a while until it was found out. They're all gonna do some dancing and kicking, but toyota is dishonoring any honor it might've had at one time by all of their payola and hiding and chiding and skabberknocking they're doing now.
Skabberknocking? Re-hee-ha-hee-haar-ee-aalllllll-yy. Wouldn't of thought of toyota as participating in something as horrendous and horrific as that. Really.
One should also note that the whole Japanese makes better cars cliché comes from the aftermath of WWII. After nuking two of Japan’s major cities, we had to help repair their economy and there was a political push to make Americans believe that Japanese built products were better and thus buy their products to help rebound their economy. This was based on political created perception and had no actual factual data supporting it. It was politics and I believe the impression stayed well beyond its need. Anyways, I had always thought my Malibu was built mostly in Mexico.
I thought to myself that at least the Camry was mostly built here in the US. The line between what is American and foreign made car is blurry.
As someone who has always owned GM cars and then leased my 1st Toyota. My experience is simple. My leased Camry cost me over a grand in maintenance in less than two years (tires & brakes). My 3 previous GM vehicles cost me nothing and I kept each one 2-3+ years.
kentws says " My experience is simple. My leased Camry cost me over a grand in maintenance in less than two years (tires & brakes). My 3 previous GM vehicles cost me nothing and I kept each one 2-3+ years. "
That's called "anecdotal evidence" and is really useless in determining what car is "better" or "worse."
There are countless stories of someone who bought a "whatever" brand car and hated it, spent countless days getting it fixed, blah blah blah. And then they say, because of that one, ISOLATED bad experience, "Car brand 'whatever' makes sucky cars !!"
And that's just a silly thing to do. Every car maker in history has produced cars which need more service than average. And cars which need far less.
The only "accurate" measurement is to take the experiences of thousands or hundreds of thousands of owners and report the reliability of the model.
That's what JD Power does and what Consumer Reports does. Those are reliable methods of judging which BRAND, on AVERAGE, does this or does that well or badly.
Your experience may well vary. Buying a car from the "top-rated brand" does not guarantee you anything at all.
But to get a car, one car, and make a proclamation that the brand sucks because of your bad experience is short-sighted and makes for an invalid conclusion.
>There are countless stories of someone who bought a "whatever" brand car and hated it, spent countless days getting it fixed, blah blah blah. And then they say, because of that one, ISOLATED bad experience, "Car brand 'whatever' makes sucky cars !!"
>And that's just a silly thing to do. Every car maker in history has produced cars which need more service than average. And cars which need far less.
Isn't it amazing the turnaround in language by toyota and Honda owners. For a decade all that was written about the Big Three cars was based on anecdotal evidence of someone who bought a 1975 Chevpontillac and that was proof enough that all cars built by GM, e.g., forever were awful and that person would never buy another Big Three car built in US because only foreign brands were worth buying because they never cut a penny on cost and they were totally honest about what they were selling!!!!
Amazing. Simply amazing, the turnaround. The only place greater hypocrisy occurs is in the media's handling of political issues to bias the perception.
Now toyota's been caught with their yen down and their attitude toward the US market exposed, and it's just a one-time thing. Yeah. Sure.
I'm sorry, but this whole WWII and Japanese autos is ridiculous. It happened over half a century ago. Japan has been a good ally for many years. You can't just judge this on military, you have to also look at economics like how many times they propped the dollar during economic crisis here, as well as the jobs they have created here with their US plants and suppliers.
I also think this Japan and war stuff is a bit racist. Why no consternation about Germany who started WWI and WWII? Why is it OK to buy a MB or BMW, but not a Honda or Toyota if you are going to decide based on WWII? Oh, and Italy supported Germany, so why no complaints about Chrysler? Just stupid logic all of it.
Ford and GM also had profitable operations in Germany for many years of the Third Reich, not really losing control until the war. There's no moral high ground to be had by anyone...and btw debating about who "started the war" is the victors writing history at best. Bashing products based on old history is pointless..if one was to refuse to buy a car from a nation with a criminal past...they'd be walking.
I think it all comes down to sales volume. Not logical, but you'll see a hundred Camcords for every S-class or 7er. That makes an impression in most minds.
One should also note that the whole Japanese makes better cars cliché comes from the aftermath of WWII. After nuking two of Japan’s major cities, we had to help repair their economy and there was a political push to make Americans believe that Japanese built products were better and thus buy their products to help rebound their economy. This was based on political created perception and had no actual factual data supporting it.
I disagree. Speaking as an older guy with a long memory, I'd give most of the credit to 2 well-known Japanese companies that aren't even in the auto biz: Canon & Sony.
Before WWII, if you were a serious photographer & you wanted the best equipment, you bought German - Leica, Contax, Rolleiflex, etc. The Germans dominated high-end photo equipment. But their plants were destroyed by Allied bombs during WWII, & they were slow to rebuild. The Japanese - notably Canon & Nikon - saw an opportunity & jumped in. American journalists who were enjoying R&R in Tokyo while covering the Korean War picked up these cameras to augment their aging German equipment. They soon realized that the Japanese cameras were every bit as good as the German stuff. By 1960, the Japanese had the German photo industry on the ropes. Every camera bug (I was one) knew that there wasn't anything that the Germans could do that the Japanese couldn't do at least as well.
We should have paid attention to this but we didn't - because the U.S. was never a serious player in the high-end camera business. We were happy to make film.
Re Sony: if you're old enough to remember the early color TVs, you will certainly recall how problematic they were. You'd spend hours adjusting them & still wind up with bright red skin tones & green skies. Sony changed all that by bringing out a color TV in the mid-1960s that worked out of the box. Sony didn't compete on price - their TVs were at least $100 more than comparable American sets. They competed on quality. By 1970, Sony was a highly respected brand name in the U.S. market.
Sony probably did more than any other brand to dispel the notion that Japanese goods were low-rent. I know several people who bought Japanese cars in the 70s because they reasoned that if Japan could build great color TVs, they could build decent cars. I bought my 1st Japanese car - a Civic - in 1974 partly because of my familiarity with & respect for Japanese photo equipment. I had 2 Canon cameras & a Nikon lens, & I figured that if Japanese cars were half as good as their cameras, I'd be OK.
Re your assertion that there was a "political push" at work. I certainly don't have any recollection of this. Perhaps you could provide a link?
ben66, funny I quoted Midway half year ago when people did not believe my prediction of Toyota's fall.
Yes, never under estimate the American resolve. We emerged as winners from WWII, from cold war, from Japanese economical invasions in the 1980s; and hold on to the No. 1 GDP title for over a century. We will win the wars, military or economical ones, against China, Japan or whom ever dare to try.
Midway and Patton happen to be my two favorite movies.
Where do you get old film cameras repaired these days? I have a nice Nikon FG I bought back in 1985, but it hasn't worked for years. Digital cameras have pretty much made film cameras obsolete, but I'd still like to have my old Nikon working. It was a great camera back in the day.
Perhaps to put an end to stealing this thread, I also have a Nikon FG. A common reason for not working is the round flat battery is used up. Try replacing it and see if your camera comes back to life.
I'd find an old line camera store that had a reputation for fixing what they sold.
Ask them whom to contact and whom to avoid. Most likely there are independents who are still repairing the brands and models for which they can get parts. Other service will be sending your baby back to a general factory repair somewhere and hoping you get back at least one part of your original camera.
I have a friend who owns & still uses a Nikon F from the late 60s. I'll ask her where she takes it for service.
BTW, I still have my Korean War vintage Canon IVS, which was a loose copy of pre-WWII Leicas, & a Leica M2-R that I bought in '72. For my money, the M-series Leicas were the finest 35mm cameras ever made.
The Canon still works but is probably way overdue for a shutter cleaning & tune-up.
Folks, never forget that its NOT about Japan, its NOT about who created jobs or what. Its about KICKING out dishonest, greedy, callous bosses, corporations. I never had anything against Asian companies. Nissan is a great automaker, especially their new Leaf will soon make a big impact on the environment (and yr wallet), and yes, I left out Kia and Mitsubishi. These 2 are pretty fine too.
And its really wrong to worry what will happen to jobs toyota created with their US plants and suppliers. Like I said many times, if tomorrow toyota LEAVE the US for GOOD, their former sales will no doubt go to the other automakers. toyotas plants will also be taken over (bought) by the other automakers. toyota is not going to leave those plants idle. They will sell it to other automakers.
And trust me, former toyota salespeople and workers will have NO problem getting a new job at a former toyota plant now taken over by another automaker. Come on, if you are Ford, would you rather hire a new graduate, or a former toyota worker, who is much easier to train. Because I do agree that toyota workers are innocent, its the bosses at toyota that are the crooks.
And suppliers who lost toyotas big orders will simply get big orders from the other automakers. This is again assuming that finally all Americans stop buying toyotas and buy other brands and not walk to work.
And not forgetting, the large taxes toyota pays will simply be REPLACED by large taxes paid by Ford, Nissan, Hyundai, Honda, Kia, Mitsubishi, Mazda etc who will all fill the vacuum left by toyota.
So its a win win solution really. The big bad boy is finally kicked out, and there will be no jobs lost, no taxes lost, no negative impact on the economy at all !!! Just a bit of time making adjustments to working with a new franchisor.
And you think former toyota dealers will have problems finding a new living ? Don't kid me. Imagine tomorrow toyota finally closed shop. I as a former toyota dealer put up an advertisement " toyota left the US, am looking to apply as a franchisee of another automaker brand. Interested pls call this number XXX "
Can you imagine what will happen ? Trust me, representatives from Ford, Nissan, Honda, etc will quickly rush to recruit this former toyota franchisee, with his good location, experience in the automotive business, and so on. They will be dumb not to. Unless they want to recruit a former MacDonalds franchisee !!
And this competition to get a new franchisee might even allow the former toyota franchisee to make some extra cash !! No doubt the other automakers will fight to get this experienced new candidate. And he gets to choose the highest bidder with the best terms !!
So if there are any toyota dealers reading this forum, pls, do yourself a favour. Start negotiating with the other automakers and take the one offering the best terms. Then simply ask yr employees to change their uniforms overnight. Maybe get a bit of training to learn about the new brand's products (which are mostly similar anyway to toyota cars).
Life is short. Feel better abt yourself by working with an honorable partner. Your employees will feel better about it too !
Unless of course they feel what toyota has done so far is OK ? Unless you feel toyota's brass will change. But until they do, such as the whole board of directors at toyota is fired and changed, remember, a leopard does not change its spots !!!
And I see no changes at the top level at toyota. The same guys are running the show. Now I know why Jim Press left toyota. He got so sick of his bosses that he will rather work with Chrysler, knowing Chrysler is smaller than toyota. I guess this man has great honour ! And don't say its because of some cash Chrysler gave to him for signing up. Come on, Jim is already very rich working for toyota at a high level post for so long !!
His conscience bothers him you see. He DOES NOT want to work for A**holes...As he said " ...financially oriented pirates who have hijacked toyota.... Mind you, he used the strong word " pirates " to describe toyota's top brass "
Now last heard Jim Press is working with Nissan to improve their business. Great move Nissan !!!
toyota loyalist will say again the driver is 64 yrs old. Now may I ask :
1. Why is it that we don't hear 60+ old drivers of Nissan, Ford, Hyundai etc drivers suffering a fate like that ? Do you ? If any, the numbers are a tiny drop in the ocean compared to the many old toyota drivers dying like that !
2. Driver mistakenly step on the gas when he wanted to brake ? Give me a break. Anyone with some driving experience will know INSTANTLY within 1-2 seconds that he is stepping on the wrong pedal and will correct immediately.
I for one never steps on the wrong pedal, not because I am young, smart, or alert, but because ALL drivers know that when you have done a fair amount of driving, you don't really think about it, never think about which pedal your right foot is stepping on now.
Because it happens AUTOMATICALLY, smoothly, without error. Like the way you breath, do you think about whether you are inhaling or exhaling now ? You don't.
Thats why the DOT report that says toyota's victims are dead because they stepped on the wrong pedal are BALONEY ! toyota money at play again perhaps.
If its true, find me an article which says quite a number of Nissan's drivers also die due to SUA induced by stepping on the wrong pedal !!
toyota is getting from bad to worse. They will bribe anybody to cover their asses. Even make outrageous claims !
Toyota should set up Americans that experience SUA with driver training and education classes, followed by rigorous practical driver's practice sessions on the road with an instructor.
This will take care of 99.9999999% of all SUA cases and eliminate them.
It is clear that we have a nation of clueless incompetent drivers out there.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Yeah, and its easier, no need to press the SHIFT key and the T together to give toyota respect that they don't deserve. Just jam on the t will do. A very small t if there is any. That t is like the head of the toyota brass, I press on it like I want to press their heads.
And pls, forward all the evidence which are plentyful on the internet, interviews, abt the crimes toyota has done to all yr friends, relatives, business associates. Let them know the full inside story. Hopefully and gradually, the journey to evicting toyota from the US will begin.
Congress will not, because many of them receive much monetary favours from toyota. Its up to us, individuals to begin the eviction. One by one, hopefully a tiny lump of snow will roll down, accumulate and form a big snowball that will knock toyota off the US one day.
And remember, toyota make of their profits in the US mind you, not in Japan ! If they got kicked out from the US, they will become a tiny shadow of their former selves. Now thats a suitable humiliation for them. toyota still enjoys growth because many buyers not just in the US, but especially so in other parts of the world does not know the full inside story of toyota that many of us here already know. Media coverage of toyotas misdeeds is very minimal outside the US. You know, toyota is a big advertiser for many medias.
We need to get the word out. Like they say, Rome was not built in a single day. But brick by brick, it can be done. It pains my heart to see toyota still making more money recently, I can't imagine how it felt to the families of the victims of their callous way of doing business.
Use facebook, twitter, blogs, or what have you. Get the ball rolling, Right now. People with conscience and with full knowledge of this inside story will very likely not give toyota their money again.
Canada contradicts toyota-lexus' fault-shifting to misapplication of pedals.
"Transport Canada, NHTSA's Canadian counterpart, received four EDR readers from Toyota on March 10.
"In a statement, the regulator said it had reviewed 45 EDRs since then, including 13 from Toyota vehicles involved in crashes blamed on sudden acceleration.
""There has been no data to support a pedal misapplication," Transport Canada said in a statement."
It's amazing Canada has had 13 sudden accelerations causing crashes since March 10!!!! I thought those crashes had all gone away according to some claimants on this thread.
Toyota leaving the NA market is as likely as Osama Bin Laden walking into the Oval Office to personally surrender to the President. Certainly Toyota's absence would create a giant void other automakers would be more than happy to fill.
If there is one man to blame for Toyota's troubles, it's Wantanabe. He is to Toyota what Roger Smith was to GM.
Toyota Recalls 412,000 Cars In US, Mostly Avalons Steering Problems Reportedly Caused 3 Accidents
YURI KAGEYAMA, AP Business Writer
POSTED: 3:54 am MST July 29, 2010 UPDATED: 5:24 am MST July 29, 2010
TOKYO -- Toyota is recalling 412,000 passenger cars, mostly the Avalon model, in the U.S. for steering problems in which three accidents have been reported, the automaker said Thursday.
The 373,000 Avalons being recalled range from the 2000 model year through to 2004 and have improper casting of the steering lock bar - a component for the steering system - causing cracks to develop on the surface.
In some cases, the crack can cause the lock bar to break, potentially leading to a crash if the steering wheel locks, the world's No. 1 automaker by car sales said. No injuries have been reported from the accidents that may be caused by the defect, it said.
Also being recalled in the U.S. are 39,000 Lexus luxury model LX 470s for the 2003-2007 model years because of a steering shaft problem, which is different from the Avalon steering problem, according to Toyota.
The latest recall comes on top of some 8.5 million vehicles that have been recalled around the world by Toyota Motor Corp. since October for a spate of problems, including faulty floor mats, defective gas pedals and braking software glitches.
The recall crisis has damaged Toyota's reputation for quality and customer service.
""There has been no data to support a pedal misapplication," Transport Canada said in a statement."
The difference is Canada does not get their press releases direct from toyota. They do their own testing. We know that toyota lied about EDR data on the Sikes case. So why would people be so gullible to the WSJ story direct from the damage control people at toyota?
>The difference is Canada does not get their press releases direct from toyota.
Precisely.
This steering gear problem is intriguing.
>The recall crisis has damaged Toyota's reputation for quality and customer service.
The reputation was ill earned. All that has happened is the light of day has started shining on toyota-lexus' handliing of recalls, fixes, government agencies, people who expose them such as Gilbert, et al. This is not good for toyota-lexus.
larsb, all I can say is that the only “accurate” measurement I can truly believe is my own experience. I will always believe my own personal experience over anything. If I know the sky is blue and there a million books and others that tell me it is yellow, I will still believe that it is blue because it is what I see and experience and I believe my own experiences over what others tell me. The emperor wears no cloths in my book. I get a new car every 2-3 years because I do not like to pay for maintenance. I have not had to buy new tires or brakes in the past decade. I leased a Toyota and in 1 year and 7 months I already have a grand into the car. That is my experience. Was this a bad luck isolated incident? I don’t think so. I talked to another Camry owner that had the same issue. I also drive 95% highway miles, so why did the breaks go? Could this have happened with a GM, Chrysler or a Ford? Yes, quite possible. Has it happened to me with any of my GM’s? No.
Also larsb, I never said Toyota’s suck. I just said I would not buy or lease one again, so please don’t put words in my mouth that I did not say. Here's a good article about perception, I suggest you read the entire article (it talks about Toyota perception about half way in).
Not isolated. But neither is it unusual. For ALL brands.
An individual owner of EVERY SINGLE CAR BRAND EVER SOLD IN THE WORLD can have the same experience you had.
It. Means. NOTHING.
Didn't you complain about the tires? OEM tires on just about every brand are a money loser for the car makers. They try to get away with the lowest cost tires they can put on the car - certain LUXURY brands excepted.
To say "Toyota is (whatever negative statement you want to make that generalizes the quality/lack thereof of an entire company)" just because you got cheap tires is a total misinterpretation of what happened. And it IS 100% true that individual experiences do not indicate a trend. That's why companies which review cars are in business.
If every person who ever got a car which required "more maintenance than they expected in the first xxxxx months" decided they were never going to buy that brand again, we'd be out of brands. There would be ZERO cars that anyone would buy.
jimbres, it appears that you lived the perception without even realizing it. Perception is reality for many. One must understand that political perception is pushed on us by the media and government. Perception and Reality often have nothing to do with each other. On occasion, political perception and reality do meet up and/or cross paths and are one in the same, as in the case with electronics. I do agree that Japanese made products were very good if not the best out there when it came to electronics. It’s unfortunate that now it’s hard to find Japanese electronic products that are actually made in Japan. While Japan may not have been known to invent much as compared to other countries, Japan has been able to take other inventions and improve them greatly. This and the perception that the Japanese make better products was something I learned at Heidelberg College as a Political Science major in the 80’s.
One must remember that Post WWII was a time when the cold war started and then we entered the Korean War. The US considered Japan as an important ally against communism and changed policies based on these ideas. Political, economic, and social reforms were introduced and it was in our favor that Japan quickly re-emerge as a world economic power (plus we put US military bases there). It was a combination of perception, scientific, mathematical, statistics & methods that were brought to Japan by Demming and others that greatly contributed to Japan's growth after WWII. Pre WWII, Japanese products had a bad perception as far as quality goes. Quality did improve and the US assisted a lot in bringing guidelines and methods in making a better products. They also manipulated public opinion and that is deeply ingrained in our culture.
I suggest if you want to understand more that you read up on: 1) William Edwards Deming 2) The Supreme Commander Allied Powers regime (SCAP) 3) The Far Eastern Commission and Allied Council for Japan 4) Economic Rehabilitation in Occupied Areas (EROA)
Or, just to start, you may just want to google "Japanese post-war economic miracle"
It takes some time and studying to understand the big picture. It's not an easy read or search. Nor is trying to find out any info (that the press mostly ignored) on the consequences of the radiation poisoning from our bombings in Japan.
Here are some other relevant items:
Gürhan-Canli, Zeynep and Durairaj Maheswaran (2000a), “Cultural Variations in Country of Origin Effects”, Journal of Marketing Research, 37(3), 309-317
My credentials: Associate of Applied Science in Criminal Justice Technology Bachelor of Science in Political Science/Criminal Justice Masters in Computer Information Systems
>Didn't you complain about the tires? OEM tires on just about every brand are a money loser for the car makers. They try to get away with the lowest cost tires they can put on the car - certain LUXURY brands excepted.
Wrong.
My leSabre which I bought over a Camry, Avalon Camry, Accord, came with MICHELINS.
Let's not get ridiculous, as many a people on this thread our about the Toyota tires. Almost every automaker from Chevrolet, Toyota, Ford, etc all the way up to big wigs MB, BMW, and Lexus put either crappy or mediocre at best OEM tires on their vehicles.
These car manufacturers buy so many tires in bulk that each tires practically costs them next to nothing so they rarely buy the top of the line tires from those manufacturers since they can get crappier tires for a lot cheaper and so they chose the cheaper/lousier tires.
I've had so many different automakers over the years and I can not remember one tire that was put on at the factory that was really any good that I replaced with the exact same thing once it wore out.
Most of the time, I can't wait for the OEM to wear out so I can go and get a much better quality tire put on.
Comments
On "since we haven't heard anything from her, Toyota OBVIOUSLY paid her off?"
LOL. I don't think so. Faulty conclusion.
Toyota Corolla steering problems prompt complaints to feds
UPDATE: Federal safety officials say they will look into complaints from Toyota Corolla drivers about difficulty with the steering on their vehicles. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has received about 80 complaints from drivers of 2009 and 2010 Corollas. Many say their cars can wander when they drive on the highway, making it hard to stay in lanes.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is thinking of opening another investigation, Automotive News reports. This time, it would look into possible power steering defects in the Corolla, the nation's second-best-selling car last year with 874,000 sold.
Toyota has received 83 complaints about power steering problems, 76 of which caused the car to veer right or left at speeds over 40 miles an hour, the News found. The reported defect has resulted in 10 accidents and six injuries. Reporter Neil Roland writes:
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/02/toyota-corolla-to-b- e-probed-for-steering-problems/1
"Hard to stay in lanes" does not equate to "driving into oncoming traffic and dying in a head-on collision."
I've been blown out of a lane by wind and slid out of a lane on ice and hydro-planed a little bit into other lanes.
Again - 83-150 complaints out of 874,000 cars sold is pretty minor in the overall scheme of things.
Again: If you feel your car is unsafe, make the dealer fix it or replace the car.
Q2 should be interesting.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I just disagree that 'Yota is paying anyone any settlements.
If there's a non-disclosure agreement, we'll never know. :shades:
(Imidazol97, parts is parts, and spam is spam
And they are facing a mighty Japanese fleet comprising of 4 of Japan's best carriers and their best Navy pilots - The Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu, Soryu, and toyota (hehe). All heavily escorted with many battleships, cruisers and destroyers. And with nimble Zero fighters and Bombers.
On paper, it should have been a massacre. But guess what, the Japanese got smug, got proud (just like toyota today), they totally underestimate the American resolve to get even for Pearl Harbour and save the mainland from invasion.
Result, for those of you who did not know history : All 4 Japanese carriers are sunk, with most of the seasoned Japanese pilots dead. Only 1 US carrier was sunk, and that was by a submarine, not by the Japanese naval pilots.
It was a stunning US victory that totally turned the tide of the war in the Pacific. From then on the Japanese are on the defensive.
Now the US faced a new threat much like the Japanese carriers : Proud big toyota selling ever decreasing quality cars to make more and more money from the US. Do what the US Navy did in 1941 folks, kick them all the way back to Japan.
But this is not about racism or anti-Japanese stuff. Its about refusing to support corporations without honour. There are other good Japanese, Asian automakers around, Nissan, Honda, Hyundai. Go support them if you wish. But pls, not yoyota.
A little bird told me that in some Galant engines there was some problem and Mitsu didn't immediately report it or covered it up (sound familiar?) for a while until it was found out. They're all gonna do some dancing and kicking, but toyota is dishonoring any honor it might've had at one time by all of their payola and hiding and chiding and skabberknocking they're doing now.
Skabberknocking? Re-hee-ha-hee-haar-ee-aalllllll-yy. Wouldn't of thought of toyota as participating in something as horrendous and horrific as that. Really.
toyota is toast.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I thought to myself that at least the Camry was mostly built here in the US. The line between what is American and foreign made car is blurry.
As someone who has always owned GM cars and then leased my 1st Toyota. My experience is simple. My leased Camry cost me over a grand in maintenance in less than two years (tires & brakes). My 3 previous GM vehicles cost me nothing and I kept each one 2-3+ years.
That's called "anecdotal evidence" and is really useless in determining what car is "better" or "worse."
There are countless stories of someone who bought a "whatever" brand car and hated it, spent countless days getting it fixed, blah blah blah. And then they say, because of that one, ISOLATED bad experience, "Car brand 'whatever' makes sucky cars !!"
And that's just a silly thing to do. Every car maker in history has produced cars which need more service than average. And cars which need far less.
The only "accurate" measurement is to take the experiences of thousands or hundreds of thousands of owners and report the reliability of the model.
That's what JD Power does and what Consumer Reports does. Those are reliable methods of judging which BRAND, on AVERAGE, does this or does that well or badly.
Your experience may well vary. Buying a car from the "top-rated brand" does not guarantee you anything at all.
But to get a car, one car, and make a proclamation that the brand sucks because of your bad experience is short-sighted and makes for an invalid conclusion.
>And that's just a silly thing to do. Every car maker in history has produced cars which need more service than average. And cars which need far less.
Isn't it amazing the turnaround in language by toyota and Honda owners. For a decade all that was written about the Big Three cars was based on anecdotal evidence of someone who bought a 1975 Chevpontillac and that was proof enough that all cars built by GM, e.g., forever were awful and that person would never buy another Big Three car built in US because only foreign brands were worth buying because they never cut a penny on cost and they were totally honest about what they were selling!!!!
Amazing. Simply amazing, the turnaround. The only place greater hypocrisy occurs is in the media's handling of political issues to bias the perception.
Now toyota's been caught with their yen down and their attitude toward the US market exposed, and it's just a one-time thing. Yeah. Sure.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I have held these beliefs since the early 1990s when I started to become edumacated about cars and car brands.
Everything I said in that last post is completely true, unbiased by my personal views of any car brand.
I also think this Japan and war stuff is a bit racist. Why no consternation about Germany who started WWI and WWII? Why is it OK to buy a MB or BMW, but not a Honda or Toyota if you are going to decide based on WWII? Oh, and Italy supported Germany, so why no complaints about Chrysler? Just stupid logic all of it.
I disagree. Speaking as an older guy with a long memory, I'd give most of the credit to 2 well-known Japanese companies that aren't even in the auto biz: Canon & Sony.
Before WWII, if you were a serious photographer & you wanted the best equipment, you bought German - Leica, Contax, Rolleiflex, etc. The Germans dominated high-end photo equipment. But their plants were destroyed by Allied bombs during WWII, & they were slow to rebuild. The Japanese - notably Canon & Nikon - saw an opportunity & jumped in. American journalists who were enjoying R&R in Tokyo while covering the Korean War picked up these cameras to augment their aging German equipment. They soon realized that the Japanese cameras were every bit as good as the German stuff. By 1960, the Japanese had the German photo industry on the ropes. Every camera bug (I was one) knew that there wasn't anything that the Germans could do that the Japanese couldn't do at least as well.
We should have paid attention to this but we didn't - because the U.S. was never a serious player in the high-end camera business. We were happy to make film.
Re Sony: if you're old enough to remember the early color TVs, you will certainly recall how problematic they were. You'd spend hours adjusting them & still wind up with bright red skin tones & green skies. Sony changed all that by bringing out a color TV in the mid-1960s that worked out of the box. Sony didn't compete on price - their TVs were at least $100 more than comparable American sets. They competed on quality. By 1970, Sony was a highly respected brand name in the U.S. market.
Sony probably did more than any other brand to dispel the notion that Japanese goods were low-rent. I know several people who bought Japanese cars in the 70s because they reasoned that if Japan could build great color TVs, they could build decent cars. I bought my 1st Japanese car - a Civic - in 1974 partly because of my familiarity with & respect for Japanese photo equipment. I had 2 Canon cameras & a Nikon lens, & I figured that if Japanese cars were half as good as their cameras, I'd be OK.
Re your assertion that there was a "political push" at work. I certainly don't have any recollection of this. Perhaps you could provide a link?
and coming from a Mazda owner.
Yes, never under estimate the American resolve. We emerged as winners from WWII, from cold war, from Japanese economical invasions in the 1980s; and hold on to the No. 1 GDP title for over a century. We will win the wars, military or economical ones, against China, Japan or whom ever dare to try.
Midway and Patton happen to be my two favorite movies.
http://www.nikonusa.com/Service-And-Support/Service-And-Repair.page
Ask them whom to contact and whom to avoid. Most likely there are independents who are still repairing the brands and models for which they can get parts. Other service will be sending your baby back to a general factory repair somewhere and hoping you get back at least one part of your original camera.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I have a friend who owns & still uses a Nikon F from the late 60s. I'll ask her where she takes it for service.
BTW, I still have my Korean War vintage Canon IVS, which was a loose copy of pre-WWII Leicas, & a Leica M2-R that I bought in '72. For my money, the M-series Leicas were the finest 35mm cameras ever made.
The Canon still works but is probably way overdue for a shutter cleaning & tune-up.
And its really wrong to worry what will happen to jobs toyota created with their US plants and suppliers. Like I said many times, if tomorrow toyota LEAVE the US for GOOD, their former sales will no doubt go to the other automakers. toyotas plants will also be taken over (bought) by the other automakers. toyota is not going to leave those plants idle. They will sell it to other automakers.
And trust me, former toyota salespeople and workers will have NO problem getting a new job at a former toyota plant now taken over by another automaker. Come on, if you are Ford, would you rather hire a new graduate, or a former toyota worker, who is much easier to train. Because I do agree that toyota workers are innocent, its the bosses at toyota that are the crooks.
And suppliers who lost toyotas big orders will simply get big orders from the other automakers. This is again assuming that finally all Americans stop buying toyotas and buy other brands and not walk to work.
And not forgetting, the large taxes toyota pays will simply be REPLACED by large taxes paid by Ford, Nissan, Hyundai, Honda, Kia, Mitsubishi, Mazda etc who will all fill the vacuum left by toyota.
So its a win win solution really. The big bad boy is finally kicked out, and there will be no jobs lost, no taxes lost, no negative impact on the economy at all !!! Just a bit of time making adjustments to working with a new franchisor.
And you think former toyota dealers will have problems finding a new living ? Don't kid me. Imagine tomorrow toyota finally closed shop. I as a former toyota dealer put up an advertisement " toyota left the US, am looking to apply as a franchisee of another automaker brand. Interested pls call this number XXX "
Can you imagine what will happen ? Trust me, representatives from Ford, Nissan, Honda, etc will quickly rush to recruit this former toyota franchisee, with his good location, experience in the automotive business, and so on. They will be dumb not to. Unless they want to recruit a former MacDonalds franchisee !!
And this competition to get a new franchisee might even allow the former toyota franchisee to make some extra cash !! No doubt the other automakers will fight to get this experienced new candidate. And he gets to choose the highest bidder with the best terms !!
So if there are any toyota dealers reading this forum, pls, do yourself a favour. Start negotiating with the other automakers and take the one offering the best terms. Then simply ask yr employees to change their uniforms overnight. Maybe get a bit of training to learn about the new brand's products (which are mostly similar anyway to toyota cars).
Life is short. Feel better abt yourself by working with an honorable partner. Your employees will feel better about it too !
Unless of course they feel what toyota has done so far is OK ? Unless you feel toyota's brass will change. But until they do, such as the whole board of directors at toyota is fired and changed, remember, a leopard does not change its spots !!!
And I see no changes at the top level at toyota. The same guys are running the show. Now I know why Jim Press left toyota. He got so sick of his bosses that he will rather work with Chrysler, knowing Chrysler is smaller than toyota. I guess this man has great honour ! And don't say its because of some cash Chrysler gave to him for signing up. Come on, Jim is already very rich working for toyota at a high level post for so long !!
His conscience bothers him you see. He DOES NOT want to work for A**holes...As he said " ...financially oriented pirates who have hijacked toyota.... Mind you, he used the strong word " pirates " to describe toyota's top brass "
Now last heard Jim Press is working with Nissan to improve their business. Great move Nissan !!!
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-0729-toyota-blackbox-20100729,0,5008343.st- ory?track=rss
toyota loyalist will say again the driver is 64 yrs old. Now may I ask :
1. Why is it that we don't hear 60+ old drivers of Nissan, Ford, Hyundai etc drivers suffering a fate like that ? Do you ? If any, the numbers are a tiny drop in the ocean compared to the many old toyota drivers dying like that !
2. Driver mistakenly step on the gas when he wanted to brake ? Give me a break. Anyone with some driving experience will know INSTANTLY within 1-2 seconds that he is stepping on the wrong pedal and will correct immediately.
I for one never steps on the wrong pedal, not because I am young, smart, or alert, but because ALL drivers know that when you have done a fair amount of driving, you don't really think about it, never think about which pedal your right foot is stepping on now.
Because it happens AUTOMATICALLY, smoothly, without error. Like the way you breath, do you think about whether you are inhaling or exhaling now ? You don't.
Thats why the DOT report that says toyota's victims are dead because they stepped on the wrong pedal are BALONEY ! toyota money at play again perhaps.
If its true, find me an article which says quite a number of Nissan's drivers also die due to SUA induced by stepping on the wrong pedal !!
toyota is getting from bad to worse. They will bribe anybody to cover their asses. Even make outrageous claims !
This will take care of 99.9999999% of all SUA cases and eliminate them.
It is clear that we have a nation of clueless incompetent drivers out there.
And they all drive Toyotas? Sheer coincidence?
Everyone always spell toyota with a small "t" from now on. It's all they deserve. Do it.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
And pls, forward all the evidence which are plentyful on the internet, interviews, abt the crimes toyota has done to all yr friends, relatives, business associates. Let them know the full inside story. Hopefully and gradually, the journey to evicting toyota from the US will begin.
Congress will not, because many of them receive much monetary favours from toyota. Its up to us, individuals to begin the eviction. One by one, hopefully a tiny lump of snow will roll down, accumulate and form a big snowball that will knock toyota off the US one day.
And remember, toyota make of their profits in the US mind you, not in Japan ! If they got kicked out from the US, they will become a tiny shadow of their former selves. Now thats a suitable humiliation for them. toyota still enjoys growth because many buyers not just in the US, but especially so in other parts of the world does not know the full inside story of toyota that many of us here already know. Media coverage of toyotas misdeeds is very minimal outside the US. You know, toyota is a big advertiser for many medias.
We need to get the word out. Like they say, Rome was not built in a single day. But brick by brick, it can be done. It pains my heart to see toyota still making more money recently, I can't imagine how it felt to the families of the victims of their callous way of doing business.
Use facebook, twitter, blogs, or what have you. Get the ball rolling, Right now. People with conscience and with full knowledge of this inside story will very likely not give toyota their money again.
"Transport Canada, NHTSA's Canadian counterpart, received four EDR readers from Toyota on March 10.
"In a statement, the regulator said it had reviewed 45 EDRs since then, including 13 from Toyota vehicles involved in crashes blamed on sudden acceleration.
""There has been no data to support a pedal misapplication," Transport Canada said in a statement."
It's amazing Canada has had 13 sudden accelerations causing crashes since March 10!!!! I thought those crashes had all gone away according to some claimants on this thread.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If there is one man to blame for Toyota's troubles, it's Wantanabe. He is to Toyota what Roger Smith was to GM.
Steering Problems Reportedly Caused 3 Accidents
YURI KAGEYAMA, AP Business Writer
POSTED: 3:54 am MST July 29, 2010
UPDATED: 5:24 am MST July 29, 2010
TOKYO -- Toyota is recalling 412,000 passenger cars, mostly the Avalon model, in the U.S. for steering problems in which three accidents have been reported, the automaker said Thursday.
The 373,000 Avalons being recalled range from the 2000 model year through to 2004 and have improper casting of the steering lock bar - a component for the steering system - causing cracks to develop on the surface.
In some cases, the crack can cause the lock bar to break, potentially leading to a crash if the steering wheel locks, the world's No. 1 automaker by car sales said. No injuries have been reported from the accidents that may be caused by the defect, it said.
Also being recalled in the U.S. are 39,000 Lexus luxury model LX 470s for the 2003-2007 model years because of a steering shaft problem, which is different from the Avalon steering problem, according to Toyota.
The latest recall comes on top of some 8.5 million vehicles that have been recalled around the world by Toyota Motor Corp. since October for a spate of problems, including faulty floor mats, defective gas pedals and braking software glitches.
The recall crisis has damaged Toyota's reputation for quality and customer service.
The difference is Canada does not get their press releases direct from toyota. They do their own testing. We know that toyota lied about EDR data on the Sikes case. So why would people be so gullible to the WSJ story direct from the damage control people at toyota?
Precisely.
This steering gear problem is intriguing.
>The recall crisis has damaged Toyota's reputation for quality and customer service.
The reputation was ill earned. All that has happened is the light of day has started shining on toyota-lexus' handliing of recalls, fixes, government agencies, people who expose them such as Gilbert, et al. This is not good for toyota-lexus.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
toyota-lexus' denial and hiding of problems = CRIMINAL
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Also larsb, I never said Toyota’s suck. I just said I would not buy or lease one again, so please don’t put words in my mouth that I did not say. Here's a good article about perception, I suggest you read the entire article (it talks about Toyota perception about half way in).
http://www.forbes.com/2007/01/15/jack-trout-on-marketing-oped-cx_jt_0116reality.- html
I don't know about THAT. A crime? I guess the court will hash that out.
An individual owner of EVERY SINGLE CAR BRAND EVER SOLD IN THE WORLD can have the same experience you had.
It. Means. NOTHING.
Didn't you complain about the tires? OEM tires on just about every brand are a money loser for the car makers. They try to get away with the lowest cost tires they can put on the car - certain LUXURY brands excepted.
To say "Toyota is (whatever negative statement you want to make that generalizes the quality/lack thereof of an entire company)" just because you got cheap tires is a total misinterpretation of what happened.
And it IS 100% true that individual experiences do not indicate a trend. That's why companies which review cars are in business.
If every person who ever got a car which required "more maintenance than they expected in the first xxxxx months" decided they were never going to buy that brand again, we'd be out of brands. There would be ZERO cars that anyone would buy.
One must remember that Post WWII was a time when the cold war started and then we entered the Korean War. The US considered Japan as an important ally against communism and changed policies based on these ideas. Political, economic, and social reforms were introduced and it was in our favor that Japan quickly re-emerge as a world economic power (plus we put US military bases there). It was a combination of perception, scientific, mathematical, statistics & methods that were brought to Japan by Demming and others that greatly contributed to Japan's growth after WWII. Pre WWII, Japanese products had a bad perception as far as quality goes. Quality did improve and the US assisted a lot in bringing guidelines and methods in making a better products. They also manipulated public opinion and that is deeply ingrained in our culture.
I suggest if you want to understand more that you read up on:
1) William Edwards Deming
2) The Supreme Commander Allied Powers regime (SCAP)
3) The Far Eastern Commission and Allied Council for Japan
4) Economic Rehabilitation in Occupied Areas (EROA)
Or, just to start, you may just want to google
"Japanese post-war economic miracle"
It takes some time and studying to understand the big picture. It's not an easy read or search. Nor is trying to find out any info (that the press mostly ignored) on the consequences of the radiation poisoning from our bombings in Japan.
Here are some other relevant items:
Gürhan-Canli, Zeynep and Durairaj Maheswaran (2000a), “Cultural Variations in Country of Origin Effects”, Journal of Marketing Research, 37(3), 309-317
Which cars are better? Review some American & Foreign car owner surveys @ http://www.jdpower.com/autos/powersteering
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/439448/japan_and_american_policy_after_- world.html
My credentials:
Associate of Applied Science in Criminal Justice Technology
Bachelor of Science in Political Science/Criminal Justice
Masters in Computer Information Systems
>Didn't you complain about the tires? OEM tires on just about every brand are a money loser for the car makers. They try to get away with the lowest cost tires they can put on the car - certain LUXURY brands excepted.
Wrong.
My leSabre which I bought over a Camry, Avalon Camry, Accord, came with MICHELINS.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
What I said is completely true - almost all car makers try to get away with the lowest cost OEM tire they can. That's not my opinion - it's a fact.
BTW: Michelin brand guarantees nothing:
Consumer complaints about Michelin tires are out there.
These car manufacturers buy so many tires in bulk that each tires practically costs them next to nothing so they rarely buy the top of the line tires from those manufacturers since they can get crappier tires for a lot cheaper and so they chose the cheaper/lousier tires.
I've had so many different automakers over the years and I can not remember one tire that was put on at the factory that was really any good that I replaced with the exact same thing once it wore out.
Most of the time, I can't wait for the OEM to wear out so I can go and get a much better quality tire put on.
Do you have documentation of your fact? Please provide data. Otherwise it's just _your_ opinion.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,