Well let's discuss Dr Hubing from his own presentation...
Page 7 his sources of funding. . . . General Motors !!! . . . Chrysler Motors!!!
Not one single Japanese vehicle maker!! So it appears prima facie that Dr Hubing may have a vested interest in knocking down a major competitor to GM and Chrysler. OK in all fairness he discloses this up front and his presentation is not directed toward or against any individual company. It addresses the industry as a whole.
Pages 15, 16, 17, 18 and 19... he presents his opinion on various weak links in today's complex vehicles. Note that he uses 'can' and 'cannot' on every slide in describing these potential weakness in all vehicles on the roads. He's creating a scenario for potential failures.
Pg 20. His slide says....
"We can’t be sure what is done....."
Pg 22 3 Possible UA Failure Modes
IOW Hypothetically speaking .......
Page 24 is a good summary IMO but still all conjecture on a general problem for the industry as a whole.
Plausible deniability. I still think that Toyota's DC office was given a copy and it was they who gave it to the WSJ. But maybe there are fair-minded individuals within NHTSA or NASA who thought that the facts presented by the individuals should be out in the open seen by the public.
Notice that no one at NHTSA nor NASA is denying the content of the presentation. It exists, these people did present to the NAS on June 30th, they did make these points. If you doubt the veracity then contact DOT / NHTSA and ask them yourself.
My cars are fine and functioning perfectly TYVM. I've never had anything occur that's remotely like any of these allegations. So this data and these facts simply validate my personal experiences which is all that I need.
My personal experiences are far more important to me than any unfounded unchecked MSM accusations or bogus fakery by liars, cheats and hoaxers.
[EDIT] In rereading that post I guess my 2nd potential leak was the accurate one.
"In fact, in a subsequent interview, one of the authors of the article indicated that the source was a government agency. Any suggestion that Toyota prompted the news report is false.
Good for them. The presentations were real, the documents actually exist, the data is clear, no harm, no foul, play on.
What do... 'current fiscal mess'... 'Toyota' ... 'phony PR' ( all PR can be seen as phony IMO ) and 'LAT' ( did you see the piece by Forbes where the LAT ignored fact checking in their accusations....and you think that's good?? :surprise: )
...have to do with one another?
It sounds like you just did a file dump on all the hot buttons that tick you off...all in one paragraph. Cool, it's nice to vent. LOL
Well, I still will take same position as I have said multiple times. Dr Hubing's presentation is only outline guidelines with bullet points. Still have no online document of what actually said about these bullet points.
Topics are quite interesting and informative that Dr Hubing did discuss. Slides indicate speech bullet points may have been aproximately 1 hour. Since outline guide 29 pages long, this would/can/may possibly make some assumptions more details of topics were presented. I say this because I taught patients with outline guides and 20 page does reveal more details probably presented if his speech actually was 1 hour in length. Also saw one topic was Questions on page 29. But guidelines, are not the full speech, can not verify any of this.
As far as a possible bias that may exist due to funding will not address this. But could see No Japanse funding may eliminate any University Research retaliation/pressure issues against Clemson or Dr Hubing personally. Articles do exist University of Southern Illinois and Dr Gilbert were on receiving end of pressure/retaliation from Toyota since Toyota proivides funding for auto technology department. I do see Dr Hubing is well respected expert professor in this expertise area and has spoken around the world, and was visiting professor Japan.2000, etc
This NAS study is for all auto manufacturers so most likely was overview of all auto manufacturers. Was Toyota mentioned - maybe. Still no full speech documents available.
As far as your statement no Japanese - still can not validate any information. Have saved two articles he did do research on Toyota autos for SUA and found problem, but still no official validation other than articles. Am going to be busy today, so researched no further. Maybe someone can research for additional info. Seems from these articles he would like more research all manufacturers autos. Whether he has conducted in past/is presently doing on other auto manufacturers auto can not validate at this time per articles or other info I have seen. Articles say he did test Toyota and problems found, and one is video of him actually /TV news station interview/speaking saying he had found electronic faults, but more research needed to see if possible in real world driving operation,, and stated more testing across all manufacturers needed. Seems to go along with what governemnt documents and Dr Gilbert's presentation revealed regarding Toyota, and need for more research. Guess we wait for NASA research study results, and where that leads/if more auto manufacturers researched & studied.
I have no info why he spoke at NAS meeting. But since he found faults & is well respected expert in this area of expertise, could possibly be why asked to speak. Just know inquisitive University researchers do this all the time. That is how improved automotive developments may come to be. They are researchers. Private industry does too.
I find all of Dr Hubing's outline guide bullet point topics extremely interesting points on Electronic Controls. This presentation involves the big hot topic debate. And would be great if everyone reviewed.
T"his month, Hubing told a US National Academy of Sciences committee investigating SUA that when his team fired radio waves at laboratory test vehicles travelling at a steady speed, they accelerated. These incidents were not picked up by the fault detection system, possibly because the radio waves affected both sensors equally, Hubing says.
" These incidents were not picked up by the fault detection system, possibly because the radio waves affected both sensors equally, Hubing says."
This is from the first article.
It certainly makes the point that since the records in EDRs don't show a fault that does NOT mean there were no failures. Point made. Facts is facts, and all that.
Positions,speeches at NAS meeting may have been taken out of context, maybe not. Really is not any earth shattering real big news. This has been same past/ongoing position for NHTSA and Oversight Committee. They do not have the expertise. Government documents from hearing do reveal request for extensive research was needed/requested That is why NASA study and NAS study were requested.
Research is still ongoing. Any statment on causes at this time by NHTSA and Oversight Committee would be premature.
Results, findings, recommmendation, approaches, etc. are still pending.
I am sure that Toyota would love to get this behind them. They were successful in doing that the last time SUA reared its ugly head in the 2007 NHTSA half hearted investigation. Will Toyota slip under the radar again because the Feds have no competent scientists to nail them?
Documents show NHTSA closed 2007 probe of runaway Toyota acceleration even though it knew the problem was 'dangerous'
59 of 600 ES350 owners who responded to a NHTSA survey said they had experienced unintended acceleration. That's 10 percent.
There are more than just the Saylor case. How about this case?
Another report noted a July 2007 fatal crash in which a Toyota gas pedal was stuck open for eight miles on a California interstate, accelerating the vehicle to speeds of more than 100 mph, until it crashed into two other vehicles, killing an occupant in one of the struck vehicles.
If there was a leak from the NHTSA, it was based on incomplete evidence and erroneous data. Repeating the misinformation garnered from the poorly vetted WSJ piece, does not make it factual or even relevant to the problem Toyota would like to cover up. They have poorly designed DBW systems. From UA, to braking in the Prius, steering problems in the newer Corollas, etc. In their haste to be number one they threw out tried and true testing procedures and are now suffering the consequences.
Also found Dr Hubing's NAS presentation outline guide had bullet points page 16 regarding hall-effect position sensors & interference that affects the othr sensor in an indentical way, resulting in a bad reading with no error code.
Did Dr Hubing talk about Toyota and findings - not sure - but articles says he did. TV Video interview of Dr Hubing speaking seems to indicate he did find problems in Toyotas. We can actually see/hear Dr Hubing talking. But also he does indicate more research neede to validate further. Video shows Dr Hubing stating need to connect with real world driving. And appears to go along with Dr Gilberts testimony and Prelimary Study at February Oversight Committee hearings. Just don't know how many systems Dr Hubing tested. I do find bullet points for ETC, cruise control, grounding, etc.
Also found NASA Mike Kirsh presentation bullet points somewhat vague. Appears to be more possible project scope of study development, approaches, possible directions, etc. Saw no bullet points pertaining to present findings to that date/or results. http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/ua/100630DOTSlidesKirch.pdf
Ha, and yes no full speeches available to help us fully get a good understanding what actually said about bullet points.
All speakers outline guides appear to have good bullet points. The multiple puzzle pieces for the appointed panel members to evaluate.
Did see a group did send letter challenging some appointed members, and the lack of having more qualified electronic experts appointed. Can't find this letter and articles link at present. Sorry.
Here is link for some real stories. Yes, and do realize is from Sean Kane's site.
But Kevin Haggerty there and he spoke at Oversight Committe hearing. NOTE REPAIRS DONE WORK ORDER TOYOTA DOCUMENT PRESENTATION. This is same gentleman who was actually was driving close to dealership when SUA occurred and got to dealership with auto WOT presentation. Dealership saw auto WOT and could not stop WOT until auto turned off. Note whole ETC replaced. His case is particularly interesting as proof of repair actually presented. Go down to section of his report. Can hear video of his testimony February and the Toyota repair work report http://www.safetyresearch.net/toyota-sudden-unintended-acceleration/toyota-sua-r- eal-stories/
All stories are interesting. Names given. Kevin Haggerty report seemed particularly interesting since he testified at hearing and also had work repair document posted.
Of course they're facts. ZERO is a unique number, that's a fact. When NHTSA + NASA says that they studied the 75 fatal crashes and found that in the initial studies ZERO had anything to do with any electronic throttle issues. That's a fact. How can you deny that they stated that. It's clearly on their presentation. They said it, that's a fact.
They have the data to support their statement, that too is a fact.
That also have the entire ODI database, that too is a fact. They studied the claims in that ODI database, that too is a fact. The did an analysis of the claims over time and presented them in the 128 page document....those are facts too.
There is nothing erroneous about those facts. Why is this hard to understand? Or am I running into the ol' ''hands-over-the-ears-syndrome" LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA 'there are no facts' LA-LA-LA-LA-LA"I can't hear you" LA-LA-LA-LA-LA.
I think the real question isn't so much "Who has the best argument to support their belief?" as much as it is "What would it take to convince someone who accepts automobile (Toyota) UA as a given that it doesn't exist?"
That is the question that separates the objective from the subjective.
So somebody at some governmental agency leaked the 128 page presentation to the WSJ. YOU continue to state _ without a shred of evidence_ that the data is erroneous. LALALALALALAidontwanttohearaboutanydataorfactsLALALALALAL
But it's only YOU who believes that the person who leaked the documents falsified the data. Not even the NHTSA nor NASA has disavowed the facts and data in that document. So it remains that only YOU believe that the facts are erroneous.
In YOUR world.... nothng was studied. the pages were fabricated nobody actually presented these slides to the NAS you couldn't be mistaken or biased into blindness
Through the Looking Glass Alice...Up is Down..Left is Right .. Nothing is as it appears
WSJ article would not be considered strong court document proof attachments in court. Since trial are upcoming Toyota would have probably done/is doing reports for defense prep themselves. I have not done much research here. Since many final settlements are reached between parties with signed confidential agreements - diffcult to know full scope of what factually happened at the end. And that also holds for anyone who has actually won a court trial won money award.
Courts only reach award damage money amounts. Collection is up to those suing. Usually corporations drag out this process and do not pay easily. Collection is another whole court process, and legal steps in attempt to make loser pay. I had researched this per centage of actual payment California in past, and found at that time only about 35%(+or-) of court awards actually paid out. Study was done. Not sure of present stats.
I am sure not saying I promote suing. But sometimes it is justified and necessary.
Toyota has a major problem on its hands. They sell you a car that has a long lasting engine and long lasting transmission, but the rest of the car is crap, from cheap plastics to cheap seats to cheap fit and finish to below par brakes to jittery steering to ugly designs. The only thing they are good for are rental cars.
Good ta hear from you again, jkobty2. I have not heard of a Daewoo-built SUA vehicle problem, have you?
Could you refer everyone to (1)the name of specific NAS speakers presentation bullet points that lists your stated facts. (2)please list page number of your referenced absolute facts.
This may help. I could not find your stated info proof researching all speakers slides you referenced facts and position for.
I do find ◦Daniel C. Smith, Associate Administrator, Enforcement had some bullet points topics listed on page 13. Is this the speaker and page?
Maybe I have missed. Would appreciate assistance here.
I think you remember in the past how difficult it is to get a straight answer from those with an agenda. I'm sure if you sell Toyota cars it is frustrating to watch them self destruct before your very eyes. From Number One to Three and losing market share each month. Under those circumstances you will grab for whatever shred of misinformation you can find to fool the masses. Toyota got away with a lot over the last decade. It is time to pay for their deception and lies.
May I suggest its time for you and others who have seen through what toyota really are, to start writing the name toyota with a SMALL t in front. A company without honour does not deserve to be addressed with a CAPITAL T in front.
All automakers in the United States are required to report flaws in their vehicles to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration within five business days of detection. Despite the law, Toyota has repeatedly failed to report potentially deadly problems.
Toyota Motor CorporationThe latest omission to be brought to light — and not by the automaker — regards problems with steering wheel relay rods, which transmit changes in direction from the steering gearbox to the wheels. In 2004, Toyota issued a recall of 330,000 vehicles in Japan after complaints about cracking rods. It told American regulators that, because of different driving conditions, the problem did not affect Toyota cars in the United States. It said it had not received a single complaint in this country.
In 2005, Toyota notified the N.H.T.S.A. and issued a voluntary recall of nearly one million vehicles here because the steering rod could break. This year, lawyers for an Idaho family whose son died when his Toyota truck rolled over unearthed about 40 complaints about steering rod problems in the United States before the date of the Japanese recall.
That information prompted the N.H.T.S.A. to investigate whether Toyota neglected to inform it about the problem. Last month a federal grand jury asked for information about the steering wheel problems.
Drivers here complained for years about bouts of uncontrolled acceleration before Toyota finally determined that accelerator pedals were getting stuck in floor mats and grudgingly started recalling vehicles in 2007. In April, the N.H.T.S.A. fined the company $16.4 million — the statutory maximum — for failing to notify it promptly about sticky accelerator pedals.
In May, Toyota’s chief executive, Akio Toyoda, denied that the company withheld information about steering wheel problems from American regulators. Last week, a spokesman said Toyota was cooperating with the N.H.T.S.A. and the grand jury but declined to comment further.
Toyota has a lot to explain about why it delayed informing American regulators about the faulty rods — and why it told the N.H.T.S.A. it had received no complaints in the United States. The agency, meanwhile, has drafted outside experts to help investigate all possible causes of the sticky accelerator problem. What is clear right now is that Toyota, like all automakers, must abide by the legal disclosure rules. If a $16.4 million fine is not enough to change Toyota’s behavior, then Congress should give regulators a bigger stick to work with.
I think the 194.8 billion number in the above article is in yen while the 1.1 billion is in dollars, so comparing a $1.1 billion profit against about a $2.1 billion loss in the same period last year. Company Is keeping annual profit forecast unchanged.
The easiest way to kick out this dishonourable toyota from the USA is for the American people to WAKE UP and STOP buying their cars. And don't worry abt job losses. Once toyota starts bleeding cash heavily, they will be forced to sell their factories and other more honorable brands like Ford, Nissan etc will take over their plants.
And the former toyota workers will be too happy working for a new company instead of being joked by their families " Why did you work for that jerk of a company ? "
Look at what happened to daihatsu - toyota's cheap car arm which makes even more atrocious cars in China, FYI, daihatsu has permanently WITHDRAWN from the huge China car market. And thats an eye opener because it means the domestic Chinese car market feels that daihatsu quality is even WORSE than the domestic Chinese brands - still not highly regarded for good quality.
So to force toyota to do what daihatsu did it China : STOP BUYING toyotas today ! That will happen automatically, it will take time though, because toyota has amassed billions of dollars from all their crazy cost cutting, but if they lose billions each year in the US market, I guess they will withdraw like daihatsu did in China.
It starts at the grassroots level, it starts with EACH of us : STOP buying toyota today, tell all yr friends and relatives, with enough awareness from more people, toyota can be kicked back all the way to tokyo from the US.
Forward all news reports and videos that already prove that toyota does not deserve a single cent of profit from the hard work of American citizens !
And toyota franchisees need not suffer, they can open a new car dealer from the other respectable brands. The old assets need not be sold, the former employees simple change their uniform from toyota to Ford or Nissan. They still stay in business - with another brand, and no more complains that the car they sold is a potential health threat !
Only toyota gets hurt, everybody else will be well served. So do it today.
Like I said Steve, the vacuum left by toyota will simply be filled by Ford, Nissan, Hyundai and the other excellent (and honourable) automakers.
Former toyota workers simply choose : Either they emigrate to Japan with their former sick bosses, or they stay and work for other car makers.
Former toyota parts suppliers will instead see increased orders for parts requested from the other automakers. That is IF people who decided to stop buying toyotas SWITCH their order to other brands instead of walking to work.
I mean its just simple maths, if one day 2 million new toyota sales vanish each year from the States, BUT this SAME 2 million sales goes to the other car makers, whats the problem ?
Nothing changed. Just bigger numbers of toyota related suppliers, employees, business associates changing business relations. All stay in business and continue to feed their wife and kids.
The only biggest consequence is the toyota brass staying at home more often in their no doubt Huge expensive homes and bloated big accounts already. But that is of NO CONCERN to us right ?
Thats all. What a small price to pay to kick out a moron.
"Toyota has a lot to explain about why it delayed informing American regulators about the faulty rods — and why it told the N.H.T.S.A. it had received no complaints in the United States. The agency, meanwhile, has drafted outside experts to help investigate all possible causes of the sticky accelerator problem. What is clear right now is that Toyota, like all automakers, must abide by the legal disclosure rules. If a $16.4 million fine is not enough to change Toyota’s behavior, then Congress should give regulators a bigger stick to work with."
This occured 5 yrs ago in a completely different regulatory environment where the overseers were actually in some cases sleeping with the ones they were supposed to watching over ( well I guess you can't watch much more closely than that :surprise: ).
For the past 20 yrs the Congress had continually winked at the lax oversight in finance autos offshore drilling coal mining regulations mortgages a whole slew of industries.
Congress and the Executive Agencies not only winked at oversight but actually cut funding ( NHTSA ) and in some cases relaxed the regulations or eliminiated them ( repeal of Glass Steagle ). Well we all know where this winking oversight got us. We're all paying the consequences now and will into the future. BTW if Congress switches in Nov which seems likely then we may very well return to minimal oversight by these agencies ( Google Joe Barton ). Let businesses have a freer hand to generate jobs, keep oversight to a minimum.
This steering rod issue may have begun back in the 90's when NHTSA was the lapdog of the auto industry. During this period Ford killed hundreds here in NA with its intentional misdesign of the Explorer and the Firestone tires that they rode on. Toyota apparently here gave the backhand to NHTSA when it issued a recall overseas in 2004 but didn't issue the recall here until 2005. That was the intentional regulartory environment we all encouraged going back these past 20 yrs.
Did any Ford execs go to jail for intentionally killing US citizens during the 90s? Nope. Different regulatory environment then.
Toyota does not want more publicity. Going to court and having the testimony of a victim telling the world they took their Avalon in after UA several times and Toyota did not fix it. That is not the kind of publicity Toyota wants so they settle for X amount of money and generally the victim agrees not to talk about it. Have you heard anything since February on that case that is clearly UA in an Avalon?
Randy Roberts of Tyler, the lawyer for Linda Hardy, the widow of the driver in the Southlake crash, said his client had taken the vehicle to Texas Toyota of Grapevine "several times" because of acceleration problems.
The dealership hooked the car to its diagnostic computer but found no problems. Roberts said the computer can identify only problems that it is programmed to look for.
Toyota also lied in the Sikes case. Have you heard from him since March? Think he is letting Toyota off the hook for free? They lied when they said the brake was hit 250 times while the car had a WOT. There own admission was they only have the following data in the EDR:
When Toyota was asked by the AP to explain what exactly its recorders do collect, a company statement said Thursday that the devices record data from five seconds before until two seconds after an air bag is deployed in a crash.
There was no crash in the Sikes runaway. So where did the info come from? Do you think Linda Hardy just went away with nothing after losing her husband and 3 friends to SUA in their Avalon? Toyota has a history of buying silence when the know they are in the wrong.
Secrecy is the word. Spend money to hide what they did wrong and make sure the public doesn't know about it. Most people will go on buying the cars blindly without realizing the danger they were/are in.
Gary says, "Toyota has a history of buying silence when the know they are in the wrong. "
Sounds like an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory.
And you think Toyota could "trust" that [non-permissible content removed] Sikes enough to pay him off? Puh-Leeze. He's the kind of guy who would TAKE their "hush" money ( if only there WERE such a thing elsewhere than in the fantasy of your mind ) and THEN STILL SUE THEM.
There were an estimated 100 Toyota-related acceleration complaints from April to June. The trend was heaviest in early spring. In June, complaints fell to zero or very low single digits for key models, like Camry, Prius, and Lexus, according to a review of the most-recent figures compiled by NHTSA.
At least two injuries were alleged. The 2007 Camry has accounted for more than 270 complaints overall, but only two last month. Complaints for other vehicles, including Corollas, Tacoma trucks, the hybrid Prius and Lexus models, were scattered for June. A few complaints have been noted in July.
Toyota, which maintains a complaint database, said it has also seen a drop in acceleration reports. Its investigation of 2,000 related complaints has turned up no potential cause beyond floor mats, faulty pedals and possible driver error, Toyota said this week. It is also testing its software-driven electronics for any glitches but says they are sound.
From Whom could they be hiding anything at this point !!?!
Have they recalled the wandering steering problem in the Corollas yet? How do you know everything is out in the open? That is why they hide things so you have to look real hard to find them. I know you believe in all people being good and honest. We just totally disagree. I take the exact opposite position. Read "What is Man" by Mark Twain and you will have a much better understanding of human nature.
Then why are they paying Exponent the big bucks? To bake cookies to give to orphans to enhance toyota's public image after a decade of mistakes and not following the rules? To give away free toyotas for compensation for not caring about the US people while they issued recalls for the cars in other countrys?
Gimme a break. They're not nice corporate citizens.
Don't have to go to twitter. There's our own out-of-control uncontrolled acceleration forum with people popping out reports of acceleration problems.
"My name is Diana Motsenbocker and I would like to share my story. On June 30th 2010 I had a very scary thing happen to me. The accelerator on my van was stuck. No matter how hard I tried, the van wouldn't stop, until it plowed into our garage and house.:
Person appears to be in 30s so it's not a case of senility like a few try to blame everything onto.
But neither the view you accuse me of - "Everyone exhales rose petal breath" - nor the view you apparently hold - "all people are scumbags until they prove otherwise" - is correct.
People are basically born good. That's just a fact. The ones who are "bad" have genetic chemical imbalances or mental problems.
But back to the subject at hand.
The "Corolla" issue is not being "ignored or hidden" in any way. The issue is under investigation right now:
WASHINGTON — First it was gas pedals, then brakes. Now Toyota and the government are looking into complaints that the popular Corolla is difficult to steer straight, raising a new safety concern ahead of next week's congressional hearing about the automakers recalls.
But how worried should drivers be? Or is this an example of how any problem at the Japanese company now gets intense scrutiny?
The executive in charge of quality control said the company is reviewing fewer than 100 complaints about power steering in the Corolla. Toyota sold nearly 1.3 million Corollas worldwide last year, including nearly 300,000 in the United States, where it trailed only Camry as Toyota's most popular model.
The executive, Shinichi Sasaki, said drivers may feel as though they are losing control over the steering, but it was unclear why. He mentioned problems with the braking system or tires as possible underlying causes. U.S. officials are also investigating.
He stressed that the company was prepared to fix any defects it finds and that executives were considering a recall as an option, although no decision had been made.
But a complaint percentage of 0.0000769 is not going to garner a lot of attention - nor should it.
They have offered to fix it for free - but not a recall.
Toyota Offers to Fix Steering Problems in Corolla, Matrix models Posted 5:20 PM 07/13/10
After receiving hundreds of complaints about steering in 2009 and 2010 Corolla and Matrix models, Toyota Motor (TM) is offering to fix the problem -- but only if consumers request it.
After an investigation, Toyota has confirmed that the "design and performance of the steering system is appropriate," according to Consumer Reports' Cars Blog. The world's largest automaker has issued a Technical Service Bulletin that would allow dealers to replace the electronic power steering control unit should customers complain, but Toyota won't issue a recall.
Toyota explained its decision by saying the problem is a design characteristic and not a safety issue. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has received some 500 complaints by owners of affected vehicles expressing concern that the cars wander at highway speeds and can be difficult to control, Consumer Reports said.
In not issuing a formal recall, Toyota will avoid having to add nearly 750,000 more vehicles to the 8.5 million recalled this past year, Consumer Reports noted, which will save the automaker costs and legal requirements.
I have always been an GM man, and always bought American cars. My last car prior to Leasing a 2009 Toyota Camry was a 2006 Chevy Malibu. Although it was very slow, my Malibu got great gas mileage and was maintenance free when I traded it in with 70,000+ miles. My car prior to that was a 2004 Chevy Monte Carlo. Great ride, spent no maintenance money on it (besides oil changes), traded it in at 68,000.
Unfortunately, I started to believe the hype that Japanese cars were better made cars. I leased a new 2009 Toyota Camry from Brunswick Auto Mall in NE Ohio. Within 15,000 miles, all 4 Bridgestone/Firestone tires were completely bald. I asked Brunswick Auto mall to work with me but they refused to do anything. The tires were rotated every oil change and the tread wear was even. So, within a year of buying the car, I was already out over 600 bucks. Then a few months later my right rear break pad locked in the rotor and needed replaced along with the rotor. Brunswick Auto Mall wants $468 to fix it plus tax. I have had the car for a little over a year, it’s a Lease, and already am going to have over a grand in it in repairs.
When I was having my recall work done, an older guy who also had a 2009 Camry approached me and asked if my tires needed replaced around 15,000 miles. Thus, this is not just bad luck, Toyota and/or Brunswick Auto Mall makes shady deals with their venders.
I will never buy a Toyota again nor will I ever do any business with Brunswick Auto Mall. My wife, mother, step dad and father in law all have a new Toyota and none of us will every buy one again.
Plus, Brunswick Auto Mall put the Leased car in my wife’s name even though she never signed papers for this car. My advice is to never buy anything from Brunswick Auto Mall. They are shady and unethical. And Toyota's are not any more reliable than any of my Chevy’s. In fact Toyota has been much less reliable car then any new car I have own for less than 2 years.
From Whom could they be hiding anything at this point !!?!
Have they recalled the wandering steering problem in the Corollas yet? How do you know everything is out in the open? That is why they hide things so you have to look real hard to find them. I know you believe in all people being good and honest. We just totally disagree. I take the exact opposite position. Read "What is Man" by Mark Twain and you will have a much better understanding of human nature.
Well, you know, that's just an opinion, and you are certainly entitled to have it, and express it.
However: over the past 15 years, Consumer Reports and other measurements from hundreds of thousands of actual owners have actually shown Toyota vehicles to actually BE superior to most "American" cars.
And remember this chart:
link title “Buy American” has long been a battle cry among some consumers who want to support domestic manufacturing. This is especially so in the car market. But do you know just how American your car is? Globalization of the auto industry with suppliers based around the world makes it increasingly difficult to tell the degree to which vehicles are made in the USA. So what should you buy if you want to help the domestic car business? A Ford? A Chevy? Try a Toyota or a Honda. According to Cars.com, a consumer information and research site, the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord are number one and two on the list of “most American” vehicles. The Ford Escape, Ford Focus and Chevrolet Malibu complete the top five on the American-Made index. The index ranks vehicles based on the percentage of their parts, based on cost, that are made domestically, where they are assembled and how popular they are among U.S. buyers.
The Camry, which Toyota builds in Georgetown, Ky., and Lafayette, Ind., is in the top spot for the second year in a row. Toyota’s large Tundra pickup, built in San Antonio, Texas, and the Sienna van, from a factory in Princeton, Ind., also made the list. Of the top 10 vehicles on the American Made index, five of them come from Japanese car makers.
While people consider full-size pickup trucks quintessentially American, the Ford F-150, Chevrolet Silverado and MC Sierra missed the list this year. The F-150 is assembled in the U.S. but its proportion of domestic parts fell to 55%. In previous years it had a domestic parts content of around 80 percent, Cars.com says.
The Silverado and Sierra also used to be on the list regularly, but now their production is split between factories in the U.S. and Mexico. The latest models have only about 65% percent of their “content” from the U.S.
So "buying American "can be done by purchasing a Toyota or a Honda.
Welcome to the Forum, The Tires Toyota put on my Sequoia Limited 4WD are also very poor quality. They are Dunlop AT20s with a Tire Rack 5.1 rating. About as low as you can get. To me that is unacceptable on a vehicle with an MSRP of $51k. My 1998 Suburban had a much higher grade of Firestone tires that I swapped out at 45k miles. They were 7 years old and weather cracked from being outside in CA sun all the time. Had more tread than these Dunlops have at 22k miles.
I think Gary's point was that it's typical in a legal settlement for the "injured" party to agree to not talk about the case in exchange for receiving some money. If they take the money and then talk about the case, the defendant could come after them to get the payment back.
The buy American is somewhat off the topic here, but remember the company is a Japanese company. Remember the surgical masks over their faces at the Japanese offices when media went to try to talk to head honchos at toyota.
Remember the US manager indicating everything is approved through Tokyo in the Senate hearings. Remember Toyoda's not being forthcoming. Remember their having shown disdain for the laws of the US in the reporting requirements of the NHSTA.
After receiving hundreds of complaints about steering in 2009 and 2010 Corolla and Matrix models, Toyota Motor (TM) is offering to fix the problem -- but only if consumers request it.
Customer is driving down the highway and the car veers into oncoming traffic causing a head-on collision. Toyota feels exonerated as the person should have known he was driving a dangerous car and requested this to be repaired.
Are you serious when you say Toyota is not hiding defects? Not notifying customers about steering linkage that will break, or steering that is defective IS HIDING defects.
But if they are "settling" with anyone, it's not to "silence them" from telling the world something we don't already know. We already do know.
You and I may know as informed Edmund's readers. When it goes to court and a blow by blow detail of the customer pleading with Toyota to fix their runaway Avalon makes it to CNN, ABC, CBS & MSNBC, the World knows. Toyota does damage control by paying people off for their silence. Happens all the time. What have you heard from Linda Hardy since March? Nothing, I rest my case.
Comments
Page 7 his sources of funding.
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.
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General Motors !!!
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.
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Chrysler Motors!!!
Not one single Japanese vehicle maker!! So it appears prima facie that Dr Hubing may have a vested interest in knocking down a major competitor to GM and Chrysler. OK in all fairness he discloses this up front and his presentation is not directed toward or against any individual company. It addresses the industry as a whole.
Pages 15, 16, 17, 18 and 19... he presents his opinion on various weak links in today's complex vehicles. Note that he uses 'can' and 'cannot' on every slide in describing these potential weakness in all vehicles on the roads. He's creating a scenario for potential failures.
Pg 20. His slide says....
"We can’t be sure what is done....."
Pg 22 3 Possible UA Failure Modes
IOW Hypothetically speaking .......
Page 24 is a good summary IMO but still all conjecture on a general problem for the industry as a whole.
Page 26 gives good recommendations.
Notice that no one at NHTSA nor NASA is denying the content of the presentation. It exists, these people did present to the NAS on June 30th, they did make these points. If you doubt the veracity then contact DOT / NHTSA and ask them yourself.
My cars are fine and functioning perfectly TYVM. I've never had anything occur that's remotely like any of these allegations. So this data and these facts simply validate my personal experiences which is all that I need.
My personal experiences are far more important to me than any unfounded unchecked MSM accusations or bogus fakery by liars, cheats and hoaxers.
[EDIT] In rereading that post I guess my 2nd potential leak was the accurate one.
"In fact, in a subsequent interview, one of the authors of the article indicated that the source was a government agency. Any suggestion that Toyota prompted the news report is false.
Good for them. The presentations were real, the documents actually exist, the data is clear, no harm, no foul, play on.
What do...
'current fiscal mess'...
'Toyota' ...
'phony PR' ( all PR can be seen as phony IMO ) and
'LAT' ( did you see the piece by Forbes where the LAT ignored fact checking in their accusations....and you think that's good?? :surprise: )
...have to do with one another?
It sounds like you just did a file dump on all the hot buttons that tick you off...all in one paragraph. Cool, it's nice to vent. LOL
Topics are quite interesting and informative that Dr Hubing did discuss. Slides indicate speech bullet points may have been aproximately 1 hour. Since outline guide 29 pages long, this would/can/may possibly make some assumptions more details of topics were presented. I say this because I taught patients with outline guides and 20 page does reveal more details probably presented if his speech actually was 1 hour in length. Also saw one topic was Questions on page 29. But guidelines, are not the full speech, can not verify any of this.
As far as a possible bias that may exist due to funding will not address this. But could see No Japanse funding may eliminate any University Research retaliation/pressure issues against Clemson or Dr Hubing personally. Articles do exist University of Southern Illinois and Dr Gilbert were on receiving end of pressure/retaliation from Toyota since Toyota proivides funding for auto technology department. I do see Dr Hubing is well respected expert professor in this expertise area and has spoken around the world, and was visiting professor Japan.2000, etc
This NAS study is for all auto manufacturers so most likely was overview of all auto manufacturers. Was Toyota mentioned - maybe. Still no full speech documents available.
As far as your statement no Japanese - still can not validate any information. Have saved two articles he did do research on Toyota autos for SUA and found problem, but still no official validation other than articles. Am going to be busy today, so researched no further. Maybe someone can research for additional info. Seems from these articles he would like more research all manufacturers autos. Whether he has conducted in past/is presently doing on other auto manufacturers auto can not validate at this time per articles or other info I have seen. Articles say he did test Toyota and problems found, and one is video of him actually /TV news station interview/speaking saying he had found electronic faults, but more research needed to see if possible in real world driving operation,, and stated more testing across all manufacturers needed. Seems to go along with what governemnt documents and Dr Gilbert's presentation revealed regarding Toyota, and need for more research. Guess we wait for NASA research study results, and where that leads/if more auto manufacturers researched & studied.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727704.800-too-soon-to-blame-drivers-for- -acceleration-problems.html
http://www2.wspa.com/news/2010/jul/21/clemson-professor-studies-unintended-accel- eration--ar-607687/
I have no info why he spoke at NAS meeting. But since he found faults & is well respected expert in this area of expertise, could possibly be why asked to speak. Just know inquisitive University researchers do this all the time. That is how improved automotive developments may come to be. They are researchers. Private industry does too.
I find all of Dr Hubing's outline guide bullet point topics extremely interesting points on Electronic Controls. This presentation involves the big hot topic debate. And would be great if everyone reviewed.
Still pending mode.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727704.800-too-soon-to-blame-drivers-for- -acceleration-problems.html
" These incidents were not picked up by the fault detection system, possibly because the radio waves affected both sensors equally, Hubing says."
This is from the first article.
It certainly makes the point that since the records in EDRs don't show a fault that does NOT mean there were no failures. Point made. Facts is facts, and all that.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Research is still ongoing. Any statment on causes at this time by NHTSA and Oversight Committee would be premature.
Results, findings, recommmendation, approaches, etc. are still pending.
Documents show NHTSA closed 2007 probe of runaway Toyota acceleration even though it knew the problem was 'dangerous'
59 of 600 ES350 owners who responded to a NHTSA survey said they had experienced unintended acceleration. That's 10 percent.
There are more than just the Saylor case. How about this case?
Another report noted a July 2007 fatal crash in which a Toyota gas pedal was stuck open for eight miles on a California interstate, accelerating the vehicle to speeds of more than 100 mph, until it crashed into two other vehicles, killing an occupant in one of the struck vehicles.
If there was a leak from the NHTSA, it was based on incomplete evidence and erroneous data. Repeating the misinformation garnered from the poorly vetted WSJ piece, does not make it factual or even relevant to the problem Toyota would like to cover up. They have poorly designed DBW systems. From UA, to braking in the Prius, steering problems in the newer Corollas, etc. In their haste to be number one they threw out tried and true testing procedures and are now suffering the consequences.
Also found Dr Hubing's NAS presentation outline guide had bullet points page 16 regarding hall-effect position sensors & interference that affects the othr sensor in an indentical way, resulting in a bad reading with no error code.
http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/ua/100701hubing.pdf
I also notice Dr Gilbert's study mentioned hall-effect position sensors in Toyotas
http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20100223/Toyota.Electronic.Throttle.Co- ntrol.Investigation.pdf
Did Dr Hubing talk about Toyota and findings - not sure - but articles says he did. TV Video interview of Dr Hubing speaking seems to indicate he did find problems in Toyotas. We can actually see/hear Dr Hubing talking. But also he does indicate more research neede to validate further. Video shows Dr Hubing stating need to connect with real world driving. And appears to go along with Dr Gilberts testimony and Prelimary Study at February Oversight Committee hearings. Just don't know how many systems Dr Hubing tested. I do find bullet points for ETC, cruise control, grounding, etc.
Also found NASA Mike Kirsh presentation bullet points somewhat vague. Appears to be more possible project scope of study development, approaches, possible directions, etc. Saw no bullet points pertaining to present findings to that date/or results.
http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/ua/100630DOTSlidesKirch.pdf
Ha, and yes no full speeches available to help us fully get a good understanding what actually said about bullet points.
All speakers outline guides appear to have good bullet points. The multiple puzzle pieces for the appointed panel members to evaluate.
Did see a group did send letter challenging some appointed members, and the lack of having more qualified electronic experts appointed. Can't find this letter and articles link at present. Sorry.
But Kevin Haggerty there and he spoke at Oversight Committe hearing. NOTE REPAIRS DONE WORK ORDER TOYOTA DOCUMENT PRESENTATION. This is same gentleman who was actually was driving close to dealership when SUA occurred and got to dealership with auto WOT presentation. Dealership saw auto WOT and could not stop WOT until auto turned off. Note whole ETC replaced. His case is particularly interesting as proof of repair actually presented. Go down to section of his report. Can hear video of his testimony February and the Toyota repair work report
http://www.safetyresearch.net/toyota-sudden-unintended-acceleration/toyota-sua-r- eal-stories/
All stories are interesting. Names given. Kevin Haggerty report seemed particularly interesting since he testified at hearing and also had work repair document posted.
They have the data to support their statement, that too is a fact.
That also have the entire ODI database, that too is a fact.
They studied the claims in that ODI database, that too is a fact.
The did an analysis of the claims over time and presented them in the 128 page document....those are facts too.
There is nothing erroneous about those facts. Why is this hard to understand? Or am I running into the ol' ''hands-over-the-ears-syndrome" LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA 'there are no facts' LA-LA-LA-LA-LA"I can't hear you" LA-LA-LA-LA-LA.
I think the real question isn't so much "Who has the best argument to support their belief?" as much as it is "What would it take to convince someone who accepts automobile (Toyota) UA as a given that it doesn't exist?"
That is the question that separates the objective from the subjective.
But it's only YOU who believes that the person who leaked the documents falsified the data. Not even the NHTSA nor NASA has disavowed the facts and data in that document. So it remains that only YOU believe that the facts are erroneous.
In YOUR world....
nothng was studied.
the pages were fabricated
nobody actually presented these slides to the NAS
you couldn't be mistaken or biased into blindness
Through the Looking Glass Alice...Up is Down..Left is Right .. Nothing is as it appears
Courts only reach award damage money amounts. Collection is up to those suing. Usually corporations drag out this process and do not pay easily. Collection is another whole court process, and legal steps in attempt to make loser pay. I had researched this per centage of actual payment California in past, and found at that time only about 35%(+or-) of court awards actually paid out. Study was done. Not sure of present stats.
I am sure not saying I promote suing. But sometimes it is justified and necessary.
> Are you connected to toyota in any way?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The only thing they are good for are rental cars.
Good ta hear from you again, jkobty2. I have not heard of a Daewoo-built SUA vehicle problem, have you?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100725/OEM/100729914/1117
(1)the name of specific NAS speakers presentation bullet points that lists your stated facts.
(2)please list page number of your referenced absolute facts.
This may help. I could not find your stated info proof researching all speakers slides you referenced facts and position for.
I do find ◦Daniel C. Smith, Associate Administrator, Enforcement had some bullet points topics listed on page 13. Is this the speaker and page?
Maybe I have missed. Would appreciate assistance here.
my guess is they were hoping for a 100.1 number.
Editorial
Toyota Still Doesn’t Get It
Published: July 24, 2010
All automakers in the United States are required to report flaws in their vehicles to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration within five business days of detection. Despite the law, Toyota has repeatedly failed to report potentially deadly problems.
Toyota Motor CorporationThe latest omission to be brought to light — and not by the automaker — regards problems with steering wheel relay rods, which transmit changes in direction from the steering gearbox to the wheels. In 2004, Toyota issued a recall of 330,000 vehicles in Japan after complaints about cracking rods. It told American regulators that, because of different driving conditions, the problem did not affect Toyota cars in the United States. It said it had not received a single complaint in this country.
In 2005, Toyota notified the N.H.T.S.A. and issued a voluntary recall of nearly one million vehicles here because the steering rod could break. This year, lawyers for an Idaho family whose son died when his Toyota truck rolled over unearthed about 40 complaints about steering rod problems in the United States before the date of the Japanese recall.
That information prompted the N.H.T.S.A. to investigate whether Toyota neglected to inform it about the problem. Last month a federal grand jury asked for information about the steering wheel problems.
Drivers here complained for years about bouts of uncontrolled acceleration before Toyota finally determined that accelerator pedals were getting stuck in floor mats and grudgingly started recalling vehicles in 2007. In April, the N.H.T.S.A. fined the company $16.4 million — the statutory maximum — for failing to notify it promptly about sticky accelerator pedals.
In May, Toyota’s chief executive, Akio Toyoda, denied that the company withheld information about steering wheel problems from American regulators. Last week, a spokesman said Toyota was cooperating with the N.H.T.S.A. and the grand jury but declined to comment further.
Toyota has a lot to explain about why it delayed informing American regulators about the faulty rods — and why it told the N.H.T.S.A. it had received no complaints in the United States. The agency, meanwhile, has drafted outside experts to help investigate all possible causes of the sticky accelerator problem. What is clear right now is that Toyota, like all automakers, must abide by the legal disclosure rules. If a $16.4 million fine is not enough to change Toyota’s behavior, then Congress should give regulators a bigger stick to work with.
And the former toyota workers will be too happy working for a new company instead of being joked by their families " Why did you work for that jerk of a company ? "
Look at what happened to daihatsu - toyota's cheap car arm which makes even more atrocious cars in China, FYI, daihatsu has permanently WITHDRAWN from the huge China car market. And thats an eye opener because it means the domestic Chinese car market feels that daihatsu quality is even WORSE than the domestic Chinese brands - still not highly regarded for good quality.
So to force toyota to do what daihatsu did it China : STOP BUYING toyotas today ! That will happen automatically, it will take time though, because toyota has amassed billions of dollars from all their crazy cost cutting, but if they lose billions each year in the US market, I guess they will withdraw like daihatsu did in China.
It starts at the grassroots level, it starts with EACH of us : STOP buying toyota today, tell all yr friends and relatives, with enough awareness from more people, toyota can be kicked back all the way to tokyo from the US.
Forward all news reports and videos that already prove that toyota does not deserve a single cent of profit from the hard work of American citizens !
And toyota franchisees need not suffer, they can open a new car dealer from the other respectable brands. The old assets need not be sold, the former employees simple change their uniform from toyota to Ford or Nissan. They still stay in business - with another brand, and no more complains that the car they sold is a potential health threat !
Only toyota gets hurt, everybody else will be well served. So do it today.
And Subaru.
Not to mention all your local dealers and techs.
Former toyota workers simply choose : Either they emigrate to Japan with their former sick bosses, or they stay and work for other car makers.
Former toyota parts suppliers will instead see increased orders for parts requested from the other automakers. That is IF people who decided to stop buying toyotas SWITCH their order to other brands instead of walking to work.
I mean its just simple maths, if one day 2 million new toyota sales vanish each year from the States, BUT this SAME 2 million sales goes to the other car makers, whats the problem ?
Nothing changed. Just bigger numbers of toyota related suppliers, employees, business associates changing business relations. All stay in business and continue to feed their wife and kids.
The only biggest consequence is the toyota brass staying at home more often in their no doubt Huge expensive homes and bloated big accounts already. But that is of NO CONCERN to us right ?
Thats all. What a small price to pay to kick out a moron.
When converted to US$ it's $1.1 Billion. The actual comparison is
-194 JY Billion in Q1 09
+100 JY Billion in Q1 10
Again, there you go with the "assure her silence" stuff.
What does that even MEAN?
It's already in the news.
There are no other secrets she knows that Toyota is trying to hide.
What on Earf are you talking about, Gary?
What silence? Everyone already KNOWS what happened !! What could Toyota gain by "paying her off for her SILENCE?"
This occured 5 yrs ago in a completely different regulatory environment where the overseers were actually in some cases sleeping with the ones they were supposed to watching over ( well I guess you can't watch much more closely than that :surprise: ).
For the past 20 yrs the Congress had continually winked at the lax oversight in
finance
autos
offshore drilling
coal mining regulations
mortgages
a whole slew of industries.
Congress and the Executive Agencies not only winked at oversight but actually cut funding ( NHTSA ) and in some cases relaxed the regulations or eliminiated them ( repeal of Glass Steagle ). Well we all know where this winking oversight got us. We're all paying the consequences now and will into the future. BTW if Congress switches in Nov which seems likely then we may very well return to minimal oversight by these agencies ( Google Joe Barton ). Let businesses have a freer hand to generate jobs, keep oversight to a minimum.
This steering rod issue may have begun back in the 90's when NHTSA was the lapdog of the auto industry. During this period Ford killed hundreds here in NA with its intentional misdesign of the Explorer and the Firestone tires that they rode on. Toyota apparently here gave the backhand to NHTSA when it issued a recall overseas in 2004 but didn't issue the recall here until 2005. That was the intentional regulartory environment we all encouraged going back these past 20 yrs.
Did any Ford execs go to jail for intentionally killing US citizens during the 90s? Nope. Different regulatory environment then.
Randy Roberts of Tyler, the lawyer for Linda Hardy, the widow of the driver in the Southlake crash, said his client had taken the vehicle to Texas Toyota of Grapevine "several times" because of acceleration problems.
The dealership hooked the car to its diagnostic computer but found no problems. Roberts said the computer can identify only problems that it is programmed to look for.
Toyota also lied in the Sikes case. Have you heard from him since March? Think he is letting Toyota off the hook for free? They lied when they said the brake was hit 250 times while the car had a WOT. There own admission was they only have the following data in the EDR:
When Toyota was asked by the AP to explain what exactly its recorders do collect, a company statement said Thursday that the devices record data from five seconds before until two seconds after an air bag is deployed in a crash.
There was no crash in the Sikes runaway. So where did the info come from? Do you think Linda Hardy just went away with nothing after losing her husband and 3 friends to SUA in their Avalon?
Toyota has a history of buying silence when the know they are in the wrong.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Sounds like an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory.
And you think Toyota could "trust" that [non-permissible content removed] Sikes enough to pay him off? Puh-Leeze. He's the kind of guy who would TAKE their "hush" money ( if only there WERE such a thing elsewhere than in the fantasy of your mind ) and THEN STILL SUE THEM.
Toyota "can't HIDE ANYTHING any more !!!!!!!!
The time for hiding has LONG passed !!!!!!!!
Everyone already knows about the problems !!!!!!!!
From Whom could they be hiding anything at this point !!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Toyota complaints fall as U.S. reviews intensify
There were an estimated 100 Toyota-related acceleration complaints from April to June. The trend was heaviest in early spring. In June, complaints fell to zero or very low single digits for key models, like Camry, Prius, and Lexus, according to a review of the most-recent figures compiled by NHTSA.
At least two injuries were alleged. The 2007 Camry has accounted for more than 270 complaints overall, but only two last month. Complaints for other vehicles, including Corollas, Tacoma trucks, the hybrid Prius and Lexus models, were scattered for June. A few complaints have been noted in July.
Toyota, which maintains a complaint database, said it has also seen a drop in acceleration reports. Its investigation of 2,000 related complaints has turned up no potential cause beyond floor mats, faulty pedals and possible driver error, Toyota said this week. It is also testing its software-driven electronics for any glitches but says they are sound.
Have they recalled the wandering steering problem in the Corollas yet? How do you know everything is out in the open? That is why they hide things so you have to look real hard to find them. I know you believe in all people being good and honest. We just totally disagree. I take the exact opposite position. Read "What is Man" by Mark Twain and you will have a much better understanding of human nature.
Then why are they paying Exponent the big bucks? To bake cookies to give to orphans to enhance toyota's public image after a decade of mistakes and not following the rules? To give away free toyotas for compensation for not caring about the US people while they issued recalls for the cars in other countrys?
Gimme a break. They're not nice corporate citizens.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
toyota sienna uncontrolled acceleration.
Don't have to go to twitter. There's our own out-of-control uncontrolled acceleration forum with people popping out reports of acceleration problems.
"My name is Diana Motsenbocker and I would like to share my story. On June 30th 2010 I had a very scary thing happen to me. The accelerator on my van was stuck. No matter how hard I tried, the van wouldn't stop, until it plowed into our garage and house.:
Person appears to be in 30s so it's not a case of senility like a few try to blame everything onto.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But neither the view you accuse me of - "Everyone exhales rose petal breath" - nor the view you apparently hold - "all people are scumbags until they prove otherwise" - is correct.
People are basically born good. That's just a fact. The ones who are "bad" have genetic chemical imbalances or mental problems.
But back to the subject at hand.
The "Corolla" issue is not being "ignored or hidden" in any way. The issue is under investigation right now:
WASHINGTON — First it was gas pedals, then brakes. Now Toyota and the government are looking into complaints that the popular Corolla is difficult to steer straight, raising a new safety concern ahead of next week's congressional hearing about the automakers recalls.
But how worried should drivers be? Or is this an example of how any problem at the Japanese company now gets intense scrutiny?
The executive in charge of quality control said the company is reviewing fewer than 100 complaints about power steering in the Corolla. Toyota sold nearly 1.3 million Corollas worldwide last year, including nearly 300,000 in the United States, where it trailed only Camry as Toyota's most popular model.
The executive, Shinichi Sasaki, said drivers may feel as though they are losing control over the steering, but it was unclear why. He mentioned problems with the braking system or tires as possible underlying causes. U.S. officials are also investigating.
He stressed that the company was prepared to fix any defects it finds and that executives were considering a recall as an option, although no decision had been made.
But a complaint percentage of 0.0000769 is not going to garner a lot of attention - nor should it.
They have offered to fix it for free - but not a recall.
Toyota Offers to Fix Steering Problems in Corolla, Matrix models
Posted 5:20 PM 07/13/10
After receiving hundreds of complaints about steering in 2009 and 2010 Corolla and Matrix models, Toyota Motor (TM) is offering to fix the problem -- but only if consumers request it.
After an investigation, Toyota has confirmed that the "design and performance of the steering system is appropriate," according to Consumer Reports' Cars Blog. The world's largest automaker has issued a Technical Service Bulletin that would allow dealers to replace the electronic power steering control unit should customers complain, but Toyota won't issue a recall.
Toyota explained its decision by saying the problem is a design characteristic and not a safety issue. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has received some 500 complaints by owners of affected vehicles expressing concern that the cars wander at highway speeds and can be difficult to control, Consumer Reports said.
In not issuing a formal recall, Toyota will avoid having to add nearly 750,000 more vehicles to the 8.5 million recalled this past year, Consumer Reports noted, which will save the automaker costs and legal requirements.
Unfortunately, I started to believe the hype that Japanese cars were better made cars. I leased a new 2009 Toyota Camry from Brunswick Auto Mall in NE Ohio. Within 15,000 miles, all 4 Bridgestone/Firestone tires were completely bald. I asked Brunswick Auto mall to work with me but they refused to do anything. The tires were rotated every oil change and the tread wear was even. So, within a year of buying the car, I was already out over 600 bucks. Then a few months later my right rear break pad locked in the rotor and needed replaced along with the rotor. Brunswick Auto Mall wants $468 to fix it plus tax. I have had the car for a little over a year, it’s a Lease, and already am going to have over a grand in it in repairs.
When I was having my recall work done, an older guy who also had a 2009 Camry approached me and asked if my tires needed replaced around 15,000 miles. Thus, this is not just bad luck, Toyota and/or Brunswick Auto Mall makes shady deals with their venders.
I will never buy a Toyota again nor will I ever do any business with Brunswick Auto Mall. My wife, mother, step dad and father in law all have a new Toyota and none of us will every buy one again.
Plus, Brunswick Auto Mall put the Leased car in my wife’s name even though she never signed papers for this car. My advice is to never buy anything from Brunswick Auto Mall. They are shady and unethical. And Toyota's are not any more reliable than any of my Chevy’s. In fact Toyota has been much less reliable car then any new car I have own for less than 2 years.
Have they recalled the wandering steering problem in the Corollas yet? How do you know everything is out in the open? That is why they hide things so you have to look real hard to find them. I know you believe in all people being good and honest. We just totally disagree. I take the exact opposite position. Read "What is Man" by Mark Twain and you will have a much better understanding of human nature.
However: over the past 15 years, Consumer Reports and other measurements from hundreds of thousands of actual owners have actually shown Toyota vehicles to actually BE superior to most "American" cars.
And remember this chart:
link title
“Buy American” has long been a battle cry among some consumers who want to support domestic manufacturing. This is especially so in the car market. But do you know just how American your car is? Globalization of the auto industry with suppliers based around the world makes it increasingly difficult to tell the degree to which vehicles are made in the USA.
So what should you buy if you want to help the domestic car business? A Ford? A Chevy? Try a Toyota or a Honda. According to Cars.com, a consumer information and research site, the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord are number one and two on the list of “most American” vehicles. The Ford Escape, Ford Focus and Chevrolet Malibu complete the top five on the American-Made index. The index ranks vehicles based on the percentage of their parts, based on cost, that are made domestically, where they are assembled and how popular they are among U.S. buyers.
The Camry, which Toyota builds in Georgetown, Ky., and Lafayette, Ind., is in the top spot for the second year in a row. Toyota’s large Tundra pickup, built in San Antonio, Texas, and the Sienna van, from a factory in Princeton, Ind., also made the list. Of the top 10 vehicles on the American Made index, five of them come from Japanese car makers.
While people consider full-size pickup trucks quintessentially American, the Ford F-150, Chevrolet Silverado and MC Sierra missed the list this year. The F-150 is assembled in the U.S. but its proportion of domestic parts fell to 55%. In previous years it had a domestic parts content of around 80 percent, Cars.com says.
The Silverado and Sierra also used to be on the list regularly, but now their production is split between factories in the U.S. and Mexico. The latest models have only about 65% percent of their “content” from the U.S.
So "buying American "can be done by purchasing a Toyota or a Honda.
The Tires Toyota put on my Sequoia Limited 4WD are also very poor quality. They are Dunlop AT20s with a Tire Rack 5.1 rating. About as low as you can get. To me that is unacceptable on a vehicle with an MSRP of $51k. My 1998 Suburban had a much higher grade of Firestone tires that I swapped out at 45k miles. They were 7 years old and weather cracked from being outside in CA sun all the time. Had more tread than these Dunlops have at 22k miles.
I think Gary's point was that it's typical in a legal settlement for the "injured" party to agree to not talk about the case in exchange for receiving some money. If they take the money and then talk about the case, the defendant could come after them to get the payment back.
Remember the US manager indicating everything is approved through Tokyo in the Senate hearings.
Remember Toyoda's not being forthcoming.
Remember their having shown disdain for the laws of the US in the reporting requirements of the NHSTA.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Customer is driving down the highway and the car veers into oncoming traffic causing a head-on collision. Toyota feels exonerated as the person should have known he was driving a dangerous car and requested this to be repaired.
Are you serious when you say Toyota is not hiding defects? Not notifying customers about steering linkage that will break, or steering that is defective IS HIDING defects.
I just disagree that 'Yota is paying anyone any settlements.
What would they owe Sikes? Nothing.
But if they are "settling" with anyone, it's not to "silence them" from telling the world something we don't already know. We already do know.
That's not what's happening.
It's not an "uncontrolled robotic steering takeover" problem.
LOL.
You and I may know as informed Edmund's readers. When it goes to court and a blow by blow detail of the customer pleading with Toyota to fix their runaway Avalon makes it to CNN, ABC, CBS & MSNBC, the World knows. Toyota does damage control by paying people off for their silence. Happens all the time. What have you heard from Linda Hardy since March? Nothing, I rest my case.