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Comments
I didn't look at the ABC video, but the criminal investigation started back in February (link) and there's still a long ways to go before it'll settle out.
Well she was head of the NHTSA under Jimmy Carter. I would expect her to be. My complaint against Toyota is trying to pull the wool over the public's eyes with erroneous stories leaked to papers like the WSJ that do a poor job of vetting the news.
I don't believe that you read the 128 page presentation by NHTSA and NASA that was posted previously. The findings from 75 fatal crashes were that UA was not related to any electronic issue. The causes almost certainly were operator error ( Saylor is identified as the one single exception - it was the mats ).
Agreed NHTSA has nothing it can do, it's a 98 lb weakling at the moment and Barton apparently wants to keep it that way. His rationale is that 'Well if you're finding that the Toyota brouhaha is a media concoction and nothing ever was wrong with the vehicles.....then why do you need more taxpayer money? He's a loose cannon even for the GOP but he's true to being a fiscal conservative. No more money for useless oversight.
Come Nov he may be Chairman of his committee and he certainly will get his way.
NHTSA does receive more complaints on Toyota's but according to their analysis it's entirely related to the media hoopla. You should read their presentation in detail you'll see wha the rest of the country is seeing.
Here's the take from the Editor in Chief of Automotive News....
It looks like Toyota is the victim this time.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100719/OEM06/307199994/1295- -
After reading what NHTSA + NASA presented it's becoming clear which way opinion is turning....except in a few isolated cases.
Toyota didn't make up those several presentations by NHTSA adminstrators or the NASA representative. I have them in front of me. They're real and they're factual. There was nothing erroneous or fallacious about any of them.
The fact that Toyota may have gotten their hands on them from some cooperative person at NASA or NHTSA then passed on the pages to the writer at the WSJ, then to AutoNew, then to NPR then to................well that's what a good PR Dep't does. Get the good news out. Even ( especially ) if cuts the legs out from underneath the tort attorneys and various others with negative intentions. That's being very very effective.
None of us can truthfully and factually say what fully was discussed by speaker about these ouline guides, or what that speaker fully said before/after mentioning each topic. I have not found any online so could see full speech.
It sounds like you have copies of the speakers full speech and that is why you have your strong opinion saying this is the proof for you..
Please do post and share with us. I think most of us would like to see so we can better understand your position Thanks
You may have your own viewpoint and that's OK. The facts remain as they are though. Since no one at NHTSA nor at NASA has disputed anything contained in those presentations I'll take that they're 100% accurate.
Presentation time is usually limited, but presenters typically flop up a bullet on the screen and then flesh out the information in their talk or in handouts.
We just want to see the handouts too.
Some of these 'take aways' are recommendations, some are opinions to initiate discussions, some are factual and some are justifications. The good part of these being released ( leaked, planted, stolen, given ) to the public is that it allows the public to make up it's own collective mind.
I'll take my facts straight thank you.
Continually saying they are facts no more makes them facts than calling oil sludge "gel" makes the oil sludge problem never to have existed.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Now they also infer or conclude from investigations that the rest are a result of operator error and misapplication of the pedal. That's different from a fact.
The facts show that complaints at ODI spiked after Oct 09. The inference is that these complaints were hyped by MSM exageration and lack of fact-checking.
The facts are immutable. You don't have to accept them, that's your right but then your conclusions are based only on your own opinions without any verifiable facts. No one herein has one shred of evidence or data to refute the facts presented by NASA and NHTSA. Why is that so hard to accept?
Again like so many herein who would rush to judgment and get to the hangin' right away you assume that the complaints were based on real events that actually occured. Let me throw some sand in your gears.
What if the complaints were false?
What if the complainers created the problems themselves?
What if the complainers knew that they caused the problem but didn't want to admit fault?
What if the complainers were actually and truly confused? ( want an example?)
What if the complainers were hoaxers ( Sikes ) who wanted something from Toyota?
What if the complainers were completely false and part of an organized program by certain parties?
What NASA and NHTSA referred to in it's presentation was a study by an outside organization that looked at all the 75 fatal accidents with 93 deaths over 10 yrs. In that study it was found that 55+% of the drivers were 61 to 85 yrs old. Almost no deaths were reported in the 21-30 y.o. range. The link to the study can be googled. Cadillac and Buick are not involved nor were they studied. This only pertains to the subject at hand.
The insurance company ( State Farm ) was responding to reports and claims of UA. Nowhere does State Farm state where the fault actually is. State Farm may have to reassess what its policy holders are reporting now that NASA and NHTSA are debunking the electronic cause.
You are entilted to your opinion. But sorry. your decision is based upon incomplete presented document information.
Many of us are waiting for these full speech documents to be available to see what was actually said.
EVERYONE KEEP IN MIND - each speech is still only one piece of the full puzzle that the committee members will be evaluating for their final findings/report.
Don't forget - study was alloted approximately 1+ year.
Based on the facts presented in the presentation the data therein confirm my personal experiences as well as those of my family members. That's all I/we really need to know.
I can draw my own conclusions from ZERO vehicles studied have any indications of electronic UA. I actually have a more jaundiced view of the reports and claims. I think the vast majority fall into 6 major categories.
1. Blame-deflectors who made a mistake and are trying to shift the blame to Toyota. The biggest group IMO
2. The truly confused such as Myrna Marseille from Milwaukee
3. Hoaxers like James Sikes
4. Those with pedal issues in the past
5. Those with mat issues in the past
6. Liars and cheaters who want to cash in on a rich target
The facts from the presentation support my opinion to my own satisfaction.
ABC Video - Yes ABC got caught inserting that very brief flash of odometer racing. That edit decision to insert one of an auto that was parked was wrong. And thus ABC got letter from Toyota with threats to sue. ABC News did apologize, and must give them credit as they did.. No story retraction though, and would expect that from news agency. But flash was short. All the multiple people I spoke with that saw this didn't even remember this odometer flash. They remembered the jest of the story only - seeing car race out of control and difficulty stopping with brakes - problems failsafe could not detect code error and auto could race out of control because of no recognition in system of these possible errors. When I tried to evaluate this story, just felt I could not objectively throw whole story under bus because of just one edited wrong decision inserting the quick flash of a racing odometer. Rest of segmant was excellent, and presented actual demonstration of Dr. Gilberts findings. What seen went along with his findings presented to Oversight Committee February. Government online oversight committee documents from May meeting reveal some of their outside engineer experts consultants felt his study was good place to start. Also Dr Gerdes from Stanford that Toyota has asked to review his study finally revealed to committee that he felt Dr Gilbert's study was good place to start per government documnets in May..
News agencies can get their reports wrong, or provide incomplete
information. Each can also be more biased. Some report facts quite well. Found it is good to read as many different reports as I can find. And go from there.
Criminal Investigation was started February. The recent Federal supoenae would probably be just additional area where possible investigation needed. Would like to know more about those Toyota executives, case, and the criminal charges.
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dateline_NBC
There is no difference between the two cases. Both were 'rigged', hypothetical fabrications. Gilbert is a charlatan paid by Sean Kean who in turn is a front for scummy tort attorneys. Giving Gilbert any credence is a massive mistake of bias. Simply put he rigged the whole situation.
The criminal investigation begun back in February is a continuation of a completely different issue from 5 - 15 yrs ago. This was a different environment with different regulations in a period of winking oversight by the Feds on every industry. In fact there was a recall on the steering mechanism but like with the pedals the question is did they react outside of the US before they reacted here. If they did then they deserve penalties. The facts will fall where they will in that very old issue. I don't remember anyone from Ford going to jail for the Explorer fiasco where hundreds were killed on our roads.
Ford hid that issue for years and years as people were rolling over and dying all over the country. Different times then.
One question. What position do you take about this speakers outline guide:
◦Todd Hubing, Michelin Professor of Vehicle Electronic Systems Integration, Clemson University International Center for Automotive Research - "Analyzing Unintended Acceleration and Electronic Controls"
Sorry I can not objectively share your opinion based only this speakers outline guides.
It doesn't matter if any of us agree with one another. It's all smiply personal opinions anyway. None of us have anything more than a keyboard and a mouse. None of us have any data or evidence of anything relating to these issues - except our own personal experiences.
Barring these everything else is idle internet chatter.
The NAS is not going to directly consider the Toyota issue. They have been given the task to investigate the industry as a whole and make industry-wide recommendations. It will be interesting.
I saw Toyota did this in their wecaast debunding Kane. You can refer to government documents at Oversight Meeting May and see that goverment engineers consultants actually found Toyota/Exponent webcast debunking of Dr Gilbert's study was found to be rigged/unsound science presentation. Refer to government Oversight Committee meeting from May. And is not first time for Exponent.
Dr Gilbert's study was also well respected and a reasonable approach per government consulted auto engineeers and Dr Gerdes (professor engineer auto researcher)Stanford also said good reasonable place to start per government documents in May oversight committee meeting. This preliminary study was presented by Dr Gilbert only as starting place way back in February at the oversight hearing. Please refer to governemnt documents at this February Oversight Committee hearing. Dr Gilbert has always said more reseach needed to be done. Since Toyota tried to get him fired, pressured the University, withdrew University money sponsorship he has been unable to do any further research or say anything. Read AP article. AP had gotten full pertaning documents requested under Freedom of Public Information Act.
As for Sean Kane I know you have a bad opinion of him. But he also works for consumers, government, CDC, individuals, etc. To be fair Kane has done some very good things for us consumers. but must always take into consideration one of his clients are attorneys when reviewing his articles. I always look at as many as I can.
Kane paying Gilbert $1800 + $4000 donated equipment to University auto lab is just plain nothing or so-called peanuts pay. Universities have strict research guidelines in attempts to avoid biased studies. University had to & did approve of Dr Gilbert's proposed documented research study. Study could not proceed or be conducted until approved. Now Toyota hired their attorneys, and then had their attorneys hire Exponent - and Exponent has been paid $3++++ million since Dec, 2009. so who gets really paid more??? Exponent on the other hand always provides reports that supports their clients. I have discussed their highly questionable, biased, .dishonest practices before. Now this is the same firm that did publish a rigged research study here in California. Was retracted by medical research publication when found
Just asking.
This study was the proper direction in finding the electronic faults within the Toyota drive by wire systems. Toyota effectively stopped his study by threatening his job and using a hack PR firm to make phony presentations to baffle the masses. Toyota PR machine is well oiled with $millions of dollars. It would not surprise me if our new poster within the last 3 weeks is a Toyota plant trying to muddy the waters surrounding Electronic SUA. Seems strange he would pop in at the same time as the WSJ was fed erroneous data to try and cloud the issues.
This person would have US all believe there is only one case, the Saylors that is Toyota's fault. And that issue with the floor mats has been resolved. I still have questions of an electronics nature that have not been adequately tested with that case.
I find it hard to believe that Saylor did not try to put the car in neutral during that entire high speed run of well over 2 miles. How do we know that a ToyLex with WOT going 120+ MPH will allow the driver to shift into neutral. Several people including I believe CR made half way attempts to prove you could do just that. None that I have read about was done at 120+ MPH.
Then many cases are still pending court dates. How many of those will Toyota settle out of court where strong evidence exists that electronic UA may have been the culprit?
A Toyota Avalon in which four people drowned in Southlake was traveling 45 mph in a 30 mph speed zone when it went out of control on Dec. 26 and flipped into a pond, according to police.
Southlake police have not been able to determine whether the Avalon's speed was intentional on the part of the driver or due to faulty engineering, and have closed the case, calling their monthlong investigation "inconclusive."
Police listed "failed to control speed" as a key contributing factor to the crash, a news release said. An examination of the Avalon's Event Data Recorder (EDR) enabled police to determine the speed the Avalon was traveling just prior to the crash. It is unclear whether authorities were able to get any other information from the Avalon's EDR.
In testimony from the deceased man's wife:
Her husband loved his Toyota Avalon but "the only problem he had was that the accelerator would stick."
The family of one of four people killed in a Dec. 26 accident in Southlake filed a lawsuit Thursday against Toyota Motor Corp., alleging that the wreck was due to a defect that caused the 2008 Toyota Avalon to suddenly accelerate.
It is at least the third lawsuit filed recently against Toyota in Texas stemming from fatal accidents. The suits allege that the vehicles suddenly sped out of control, a circumstance cited in a number of other fatal accidents around the country involving Toyota.
Linda Hardy, wife of the driver, told police that the Avalon previously had acceleration problems.
Linda Hardy also told police that her husband had seizures, for which he was taking medication.
Linda Hardy has not filed a lawsuit, but her attorney, Randy Roberts of Tyler, said the autopsy report showed no evidence that Hardy had a seizure at the time of the accident and that he was sitting upright in his seat.
Toyota said Thursday that it does not comment on pending litigation or investigations.
Toyota Owners Took Concerns to Dealership Before Fatal Southlake Crash
Monty and Linda Hardy had taken their 2008 Toyota Avalon to a Grapevine dealership "several times" with complaints about uncommanded acceleration but were told there was nothing wrong, their attorney says.
On the day after Christmas, Monty Hardy was driving the Toyota in Southlake when it sped through a T-intersection, barreled through a steel fence, struck a tree and landed upside down in an icy pond. He and all three passengers in the car were killed.
The Koreans are no longer competing on the value equation only, for example the Sonata's direct injection 2.4L gets 200 HP, a number that is way too good compared to any Japanese 2.4L engine that runs on regular gas. The Toyota 2.4L is the lowest output of all similar sized Japanese engines.
Toyota has a major problem on its hands. They sell you a car that has a long lasting engine and long lasting transmission, but the rest of the car is crap, from cheap plastics to cheap seats to cheap fit and finish to below par brakes to jittery steering to ugly designs.
The only thing they are good for are rental cars.
I stand by my statements on Gilbert. From what I've read from engineers on other sites he shorted the electronics in order to fabricate the specific result that he wanted. He rigged the system to show what might occur. This is no different than NBC rigging the GM trucks to explode in 1992.
Admittedly Gilbert is not describing any real situation. He's describing what might occur hypothetically.
And also, the owners are at least partly to blame.
If my car (any brand, not just Toyota ) ever gets "accelerator stuck problems" then I will leave it at the dealer for as long as it takes to solve the problem.
If you don't do that, you too might end up dead in an icy pond.
Accepting "there is nothing wrong" from their dealer might have indirectly contributed to this man's death.
BUT we don't know FOR SURE the cause.
Don't "assume" it was a Toyota fault just because some ambulance-chasing lawyer called the widow and convinced her to sue.
You may have your opinion which differs from my opinion but so what. It seems that you don't want to discuss the subject as sharon is but rather want to attack me personally.
I'll ask the Host, is that the way life is here?
You continue to use the term 'erroneous' on the data provided by NHTSA. Do you have any proof that the facts and data are erroneous?
Allegedly the driver of the Southlake vehicle was an epileptic and on new meds. NHTSA hasn't concluded anything to my knowledge. It may also have had the CTS pedal.
Forbes..
Why Didn't the Media Do a Better Job on Toyota
In their Toyota coverage reporters aren't letting facts get in the way of a good story.
The jig seems to be up on the runaway-Toyota scare. Mounting evidence indicates that those Toyotas truly accelerating suddenly can probably be explained by sliding floor mats (since fixed) and drivers hitting the gas instead of the brake. That is, the media have been chasing a will-o'-the-wisp for the better part of a year, whipping car buyers and Congress into a frenzy.
Where are Woodward and Bernstein when you need them? Shouldn't the accounts of alleged unintended acceleration deaths have been subjected to a little checking?
and this...
Likewise, the media pack is so focused on the number of those deaths supposedly from sudden unintended acceleration, now put at 93 from 75 crashes, that it can't be bothered to properly investigate them--or indeed even look at them. Otherwise reporters could have told you what I found: that most of the claims are spurious, even to the point that some of the accidents never even occurred.
and then some were filed as UA when...
One entry concerns Joseph Mele, who court records say last August crashed into a guard rail at over 100mph while driving a Toyota Scion. His best friend was trapped and burned alive. Witnesses told authorities he'd been smoking pot and was plastered, and a police officer stated he smelled strongly of booze. He's awaiting trial, charged with, among other crimes, vehicular homicide while driving under the influence of alcohol (something the Los Angeles Times, a Pulitzer Prize finalist for its Toyota coverage, failed to mention in a February story). His mother nonetheless entered a NHTSA complaint regarding Toyota. And then she entered 7 other Scion accidents under "speed control" that she found online, totaling 12 deaths. She told me "police quotes" indicated they were unintended acceleration. How many of those 7 accidents NHTSA includes in the 93 isn't clear, and the agency won't say. But the fact that at least 22 deaths come from news reports proves that the 93 total includes some of them.
As I said previously....mostly blame-deflectors along with liars, cheaters and hoaxers...but being too drunk and too high to drive at 100 mph is a likely reason.
You continue to use the term facts. NHTSA says the investigation is far from over. So it cannot be a fact. Toyota is impatient and plants erroneous stories in media, magazines etc to try and circumvent the US governments investigation. It ain't over till the fat lady sings. And that could be a year or more. And if you feel you were attacked, I apologize. Your very biased posts were reminiscent of others that have gone before you. That have a vested interest in Toyota being cleared of wrong doing. Wrong doing they have brought on themselves by lying to the public and lying to Congress. So if you are just another diehard Toyota fan with no iron in the fire, please accept my apology.
The widow has not sued. The only lawsuit I could find was by the family of one of the passengers. I would guess the widow will be paid off handsomely to secure her silence. A silence which has not been broken for 6 months. So maybe it is already a done deal. Toyota knows when to sue and when to payoff.
I am not sure what sites you reviewed, so can not comment. If they were automotive sites, then I would have to also attempt to see if some bias would be present that could influnce the stated opinion. Are auto manufacturers supporting that site. If so, I usually try to validate with other reports, and government oversight committee sites.
Government used top auto electronic engineers from universities or research centers. Also Dr Gerdes is a top auto electronic engineer/researcher from Stanford University Auto Research. These engineers felt Dr Gilbert's approach was a good feasible beginning.
I choose to go by oversight committee expert findings.
Experts found good and reasonable sound beginning. That is is how Dr Gilbert presented it during testimony. Was presented as Toyota Electronic Throttle Control -Preliminary Report (refer to Feb Oversight Committee Meeting documents )
means
1. preceding and leading up to the main part, matter, or business; introductory; preparatory: preliminary examinations
What no one knows is where next step of research will lead and what results will be.. Governemt has admitted as much after consulting with their top experts too. Also in government documents.
Dr Gilbert teaches at the #1 auto technology school is US. Auto electronics is his expertise. He is not engineer, but he could be self taught as this is his expertise. He teaches students how to find problems, and inserts problems into autos in auto lab for diagnosing/teaching. I do realize this is not college engineering program. But is still considered a college major.
They have the data to support their statement, that too is a fact.
That also have the entire ODI database, that too is a fact.
They studied the claims in that ODI database, that too is a fact.
The did an analysis of the claims over time and presented them in the 128 page document....those are facts too.
There is nothing erroneous about those facts. Why is this hard to understand? Or am I running into the ol' ''hands-over-the-ears-syndrome" LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA 'there are no facts' LA-LA-LA-LA-LA"I can't hear you" LA-LA-LA-LA-LA.
IMHO the participants in that panel are grandstanding buffoons who simply needed facetime in order to be re-elected in November. None of them have any expertise in anything remotely related to autos or engineering. I'll go with NASA and the NAS. Until that's complete every other opinion from the buffoon panel is suspect due to politics and the need for facetime.
Allow the scientists to do their work. As someone in one of the other sites stated...
In the pool put me down for $25 on the box next to ... "Exonerated due to lack of proof that anything was ever wrong'
H-mmm not going to research this either as really makes no difference to me. AP does say they have documents. And am familiar with this law allowing release of public documents.
Yes, Saylor accident will always create a debate since he was CHP officer and had advanced didactic and oncourse emergency vehicle drivers training. 911 call devastating to listen to. Just so very sad.
And I too also saw the reports of South Lake Tahoe Toyota accident . Saw same results. Thanks for passing along. New bloggers or those who have not seen should find interesting. As stuck accelerator is difficult to prove unless witnesses are present to verify. And some have had witnesses. Most are not lucky enough to have though. Smile - whole other debate on causes SUA. Smile - debate old one here, as covered many times..
Can't say I am very impressed with some presenting corporate actions to problems today - Toyota, BP, Johnson & Johnson, etc.
Oversight Committee is relying on engineers and NSA and NAS findings too. Coments I quoted were committees findings given to them from the consulted expert engineers. Committee has no auto engineering expertise and saw they mentioned that fact.
Yes, the political games played both sides. Sure games were being played during this investigation. NHTSA too.Won't even get into politics as is hot topic. But decisons will be made by oversight committee and NHTSA eventually. That is fact we all know.
As I have repeated multiple times.I stay in pending mode waiting for results.
I still don't understand why you are not interested discussing Dr Hubing's bullet points presentation. Appeared quite interesting - but it too did not have full speech. Having full speech would have been great & possible great discussions here.
Smile - So sorry. And is not "hands-over-the-ears-syndrome." I would not make this decision in professional work without full facts, and can not here either since full speech not available.. Guess we are at odds. Still friends though - I hope.
Here is Dr Hubing-
http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/ua/100701hubing.pdf
Full page link where you can find NAS speakers listed by this site
ttp://www.trb.org/main/uastudy.aspx
Why would someone want the whole presentation? It is more fun to fill in the blanks and make up your own facts. It is very clear that the limited investigation by the NHTSA is just a start. And the information leaked to the WSJ was meant to confuse. And obviously it did a good job. As many here are confused.
More than 3,000 sudden unintended acceleration (SUA) complaints about Toyotas and Lexuses have come into the agency, dating back to the early 1990s. Among those complaints are 75 fatal crashes and 93 deaths. However, the only crash that the NHTSA examined that could actually be blamed on the vehicle was the infamous August 28, 2009 crash of a Lexus ES dealership loaner in California that killed an off-duty police officer and many members of his family. That crash was blamed on accelerator pedal entrapment due to an ill-fitting all-weather floor mat installation.
The agency has not yet released any official findings on its research – hence the Journal’s need to speak with the mysterious “people familiar with the situation” – but it’s unclear what effect this news will have on the more than 100 lawsuits from individuals who claim their crashes were to be blamed on faulty electronics.
Hopefully it does not sway juries from looking at the evidence and not the Spin provided to WSJ and the media by unknown entities within the government and the Toyota PR machine.
At GMI we've seen a flood of people willing to state that the NHTSA has fully investigated the Toyota throttle control system and cannot find any cause other than floormats to explain Toyota accidents that, in some cases, have resulted in driver and passenger deaths.
It's the floormats, right? No other possible cause. Except when the floor mats aren't installed, it's the floor padding, right?
Yet, when you read the accident investigations, you do not find any detailed evidence of the NHTSA investigating the Toyota ECM / throttle control system.
For months now, I've been asking, begging, cajoling, double-daring any and all Toyota apologists and interested bystanders to post the proof that the NHTSA has, in a technically competent manner, thoroughly reviewed the Toyota ECM/throttle control system.
This is not about sweeping press releases or Toyota proclamations, but instead one single instance of an NHTSA investigation report that shows that the Toyota ECM/throttle control system has been competently investigated.
One.
1.
Uno.
Eins.
NHTSA links are provided below.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/recallsearch.cfm
May the best person prove me wrong.
Toyota lied, people died.
factsopinions and allegedly leaked statements are immutable. You don't have to accept them, that's your right but then your conclusions are based only on your own opinions without any verifiable facts.I love it.
The logic.
Your opinions of the interpretation of early press releases by toyota are the only FACTS. But others' more careful analysis of what was leaked and transmuted are just opinion and obviously wrong.
>No one herein has one shred of evidence or data to refute the facts presented by NASA and NHTSA.
Don't have to prove anything. Nothing has been finalized other than by toyota or their paid PR agressive arm.
There used to be a toyota salesperson who took similar stands to yours who was on this discussion under a different name. Are you connected to toyota in any way? Your defense of anything in their favor is so excessively transparent there must be a connection.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Wow, that sounds exactly the way I've heard GM cars described on this forum for years!
Up until now the issue has been obfuscated by the MSM's need to sell copy and airtime during a slow news period. It's failures to investigate the facts ( see the Forbes article above ) with anything approaching minimal journalistic standards meant that the public was fed a line of BS in order to sell the 'faux-news'.
Now that NHTSA and NASA have actually stated real facts.
ZERO actual cases of electronic throttle involvement
The public has a right to know that the ones purveying the 'faux-news' were simply stoking the fires. This is critical for judges, future juries and the purported plaintiffs. In this case the NHTSA and NASA did all a good service in that it's likely IMO that the rash of bogus legal claims will suddenly look pretty weak as the scummy tort attorneys try to press their bogus claims. I can see now that there might be a move to quash a good number of these bogus claims.
For that reason I think that NHTSA and NASA might have leaked the facts to Toyota intentionally. Certainly when Toyota got their hands on the 128 page presentation they got it out into the public right away. Good on both parties.
Good for the WSJ, Edmunds, NPR, Automotive News and now Forbes for putting this info all in a prominent place for the public to see and to form its own opinion.
That's all that's needed.
The facts presented by NHTSA and NASA are sufficient for me to form my opinion that nothing caused these issues other than mats, pedals and driver error. You are free to continue believing what you wish. Neither of our opinions, nor anyone else's herein, have one iota of weight outside our personal lives.
What is it that you don't get? The presentations are real, they're not alleged. They really do exist I've printed them out and have them in front of me. It's a fact, they exist.
These presentations were authored by several NHTSA people and one NASA participant, they even put their names to them and none of them have denied the existance nor the content. These are facts.
As with the prior poster you are free to ignore whatever facts you wish to ignore which don't fit with your biases. Form whatever opinion you wish. Neither your opinion nor mine have any weight outside our personal lives.
When the investigations are completed the facts will fall where they will. As I said I'm buying the box 'Toyota exonerated in electronic issues: No proof whatsoever'
You are right there. Being misinformed is how the USA has gotten into our current fiscal mess. Toyota's lies upon lies, are what put them on the hot seat. All the phony PR will do, is extend that view of them being Liars, to the thinking public. The media have a vested interest via advertising from Toyota. Only a few were brave enough to tell Toyota they can keep their advertising $millions, we are going to print the truth. I am not a big fan of the LA Times. They did tell it like it is in spite of the threats of lost revenue. I would suppose anyone that is so adverse to having the truth told, has a financial interest in Toyota. I could be wrong. I doubt it.
By: Graeme Roberts | 19 July 2010
Toyota Motor Sales USA (TMS) has said it "strongly objects to allegations that Toyota 'planted' a news story in the Wall Street Journal regarding NHTSA investigations into unintended acceleration", as an NHTSA spokeswoman last week claimed in a telephone interview with just-auto.
In a statement emailed to just-auto, TMS corporate communications executive Scott Deyager said: "Toyota does not have access to NHTSA investigation data and the agency has not reported its findings to Toyota.
"In fact, in a subsequent interview, one of the authors of the article indicated that the source was a government agency. Any suggestion that Toyota prompted the news report is false.
"The following is Toyota’s response to the original Wall Street Journal report:
"NHTSA has not provided its findings to Toyota, therefore we cannot confirm the report. Toyota's own vehicle evaluations have confirmed that the remedies it developed for sticking accelerator pedal and potential accelerator pedal entrapment by an unsecured or incompatible floor mat are effective.
"We have also confirmed several different causes for unintended acceleration reports including pedal entrapment by floor mats, pedal misapplication and normal vehicle functions such as engine idle up for cold start or air conditioning loads.
Pretty clear, if Toyota did not plant the phony story in WSJ, it is from an UNKNOWN source. Which makes it similar to a 3 headed boy story in the National Enquirer. Just because Forbes or whoever picked it up is irrelevant. They all want in on the Toyota Advertising $millions. Rewards for making Toyota look good in print. Too bad they are not putting it into improving the cars.