By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Now the CT200H will use the same platform, WITH the Prius drivetrain, modified to be "sporty" like the tC is on the same platform. The CT200 will be the 5-door version of the 250H, only with a downgraded engine. And still priced at $31,5. LOL!
I love how they continue to compare it to the A3 TDI, which is similarly priced, but almost 2 seconds quicker to 60 and without a CVT to tolerate.
Don't see either of these models generating waiting lists.....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
But being the devil's advocate for the iso-tank L must be fun anyway (emotorcons aren't working)
My bad, HS hybrid blandbox is a superduper Camry hybrid...so Lexus has two SuperCamrys...nice.
MB doesn't need to fight for the NA market, as it utterly destroys Lexus virtually everywhere else on the planet.
LOL at that, but it's probably $5995 due at lease signing in very, very small print.
Not quite that, either. It uses the Camry's [hybrid] drivetrain but a different chassis.
I guess I must be thick. How can a lower lease payment on a comparably priced vehicle be a bad thing? It looks to me like all things being equal at the start, and equal time and mileage, the lower the monthly lease the higher the quality of the vehicle. To me it means when the lease is up the manufacturer expects the value to be higher. I am trying to be logical and cannot find any logic to the argument that somehow a Mercedes with a lower monthly lease is a bad thing.
https://www.alg.com/deprratings.aspx
Interestingly, the only Benz to earn more than 3 stars is the Sprinter, and many Benzes score very poorly.
Mercedes can use incentives to reduce the depreciation during a lease term, and that's just what they're doing.
So what does the HS give apart from a loaded Camry or Prius, other than a badge and a coddling dealer experience? Looks like the market hasn't exactly fallen in love with it, bodes poorly for the hard on the eyes CT. Looks like the swoopy L is having to do some kissing to get people to buy the aging (IS) or unappreciated (HS).
Does Lexus not use incentives?
My college roommate's wife has a Camry hybrid and it's decent, but not the same ambience. Not all leather is created equal.
I think Lexus has kept them under control.
Incentives are a double-edged sword - you gain short-term sales, but resale value drop, because used models also lose value (since people cross-shop new).
Mercedes' poor ALG showing proves that they relied a little too much on incentives.
Conversely, Subaru did very well. They've kept a lid on incentives, especially cash back, and now more than half the models in the lineup have 5-star resale.
Next up, lease factors and residuals.
Let me know when you are ready, but take all the time you need.
If you want 5 star resale rating you won't buy a Toyota or Lexus. Yes Sprinter has good resale. I bought a 2006 Sprinter RV and paid out the door $59k cash. I sold it a little over a year later for $55k cash. Try that with a Lexus or Toyota any model. My 2007 Sequoia would probably get an offer in trade of about 45% or MSRP. So if this whole argument is about resale values. Toyota and Lexus are not that great. The only real Lexus the LS460 only gets a 3 Star. Is that supposed to impress someone that buys new every 3 years and wants a decent trade-in? I guess if I want a good resale I should get a Golf or Mini Cooper. I test drove a Subaru and was not in the least bit impressed.
Incredible, really.
Thanks for cleanin' up my slop on those Kia stats, man. Was my mind someplace else? Really good to see when you consider that I knew this stuff about a decade ago, but most of the rest of America was popping Kia in to the Yugo brigade.
Anyone for a large, ugly SUV or pick-em-up truck from a domestic manufacturer? :shades:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I'm leaning toward a new Conquest, a real man's SUV.....
No wimpy Hummer's for this kid...
What is that thing, an Intl of some sort? Or does a co start off with an Intl cab and rework it?
To be fair, I doubt the Lincoln MKX hybrid will do any better.
The CT200h may stand a better chance since it uses the smaller displacement engine.
And it's not like the A3 is setting sales records. Not to mention, people here think the CT200h is too derivative of Toyotas, even though it's not, but what about the A3? It's just a Golf. Even the Quattro is fake Quattro - it gets VW's Haldex, not Audi's Torsen.
If anything, the HS differentiates itself more than the MKX hybrid, and the CT differentiates itself much more than the A3 compared to platform mates.
Simple answer - incentives.
I was just showing how Lexus cars beat Mercedes. Large luxury sedans have always fared poorly.
fintail may be on to something, though. They can dump C-classes at a loss, and with a better-than-average retention rate, hope that the customer buys an E-class next time, hopefully not at a loss.
It could work, but it does damage residual values.
That is true. One of the offers I got when I was selling the Sprinter RV was a 6 year old S600 Mercedes. I believe it was a 2000 model. They offered me $45k cash and the Mercedes. Fintail advised against the V12 MB. Too high cost to maintain. I would have looked cool in that big tuna boat. That was a lot of loss on their part.
That Conquest will be limited in production and gigantic in price, so in this economy we shouldn't have to worry about being t-boned by them anyway.
In what ways is the CT differentiated more than the A3? Or the HS? If an A3 is just a golf then an ES is just a Camry and a HS is just a Avensis, right? And the CT is just awkward.
Agreed.
A3 TDI being on the Golf platform. I would say that is a good thing
Sure, but then why not just get a Golf? They're already very nice inside, what do you gain with an A3? The badge?
Remember, this was a counterpoint to the claim that the HS and CT are "just a fancy Prius". Isn't the A3 "just a fancy Golf"? More so than the Lexus models that were being criticized.
Yes, even since the last time I posted that link.
MB sales continue to rise in the US and have for some time, while the company reaps profits so whatever strategy they've used, it is working.
Can you provide data to the contrary? You keep asking me for ALG details, yet you make claims with no sources at all to back them up.
I am not trying to discredit you (although I still can't understand why anyone would defend Lexus)...I just want more info about this ALG info that we are supposed to believe.
What "source" do you want to "back up"? Please be specific.
OK, not to nit-pick, but you're going by a TV commercial, remember? I give you the benefit of the doubt, but you question me even when I do list a source you can access easily?
So, I'll be specific...
What are the complete lease terms of that IS you see on TV? How much due at signing? A bunch, I'm sure.
How do you know for a fact Lexus loses money? I showed that Benz was leasing a car that costs more for less money with similar terms, from the same web site, at least. You are making far more assumptions than I am.
Then you go on to assume the Lexus IS buyers has to buy a GS next, why? You yourself say the IS is not that sporty. They could be buying an ES or an RX, I'm sure that's the case quite often. Conversely, a C-class buyer doesn't necessarily buy an E-class next, it could be an ML or even another C.
Very few people may be moving up to a GS, but *very many* Lexus buyers come back to another Lexus, a higher rate than Mercedes enjoys.
In a surprise twist, I'll also commend Mercedes on making their hybrid S-class the most affordable model.
As opposed to Lexus, who charges about $45 grand more than the base model for their Hybrid Lexus Hybrid LS 600l hybrid HSD hybrid.
Sales will be limited, of course. It could add value as a halo/flagship model, however. Just look at all the publicity it got parking itself on Oprah.
Some features seem to come and go. Anybody recall 4-wheel steering on the Honda Prelude and, more recently, Chevrolet and GMC trucks. I don't see that feature hyped anymore as well.
Doesn't Ford offer that on some affordable cars? Was it Ford or someone else?
Any how, the flagship LS hybrid's job is to make Hollywood happy and get attention. Getting on Oprah is a major coup, because 100 million women want one the next day.
The other day, in another thread, we asked what cars you'd buy if $100k dropped on your lap, and you had to spend it all. My wife was right next to me, and being far from a car enthusiast, first thing that came to her head was "that Lexus that parked itself on Oprah".
And the self-parking thing...if one feature could sum up a brand.
I'll keep an eye out for that sweetheart lease ad just for you
How do we know that MB is losing money? It might be making less per lowline sale, but the rest of the healthy sales of the brand more than make up for it.
What else would IS buyers upgrade to? Is an ES really even an upgrade? GS isn't sporty either, so a buyer who actually likes to drive wouldn't go there either. What are percentages of repeat buyers among the respective brands, in global sales?
Nothing is lazier than not being able to park.