Though the Germans haven't done any better. BMW's Bangled styling is now infamous, and updates are conservative at best. The 5 series GT and X6 are downright ugly - only the ZDX compares.
Benz and Audi are not bad, but both had designs peak about a generation ago.
IMHO Audi had it nailed down about 5 years ago, but they had to update their designs, and there was nowhere to go but down.
Agree with all of the above. Also, VW had it best a generation ago. New ones look like Toyotas, except the new Jetta, which is just bland and cheap.
The original Lexus GS, designed by Guigiaro himself, was nice. Since then it's gone down hill.
And the first SC coupe has survived the test of time, too.
Current ones are indeed a bit bland, which works better for the big LS than it does the smaller sedans.
I like the Lexus GX because it reminds me of the Land Cruiser Prado models I saw while in the jungles of Belize. Cool in a way the chopped-looking 4Runner is not.
I can't think of a brand, besides Aston Martin perhaps, that is consistently beautiful, however. If Aston does an SUV, I officially give up.
I can't think of a brand, besides Aston Martin perhaps, that is consistently beautiful, however. If Aston does an SUV, I officially give up.
I think Audi used to fit into this camp. Now those LEDs look like too much eyeshadow. And the Q7 is hideous.
Toyota is perennially ugly to just passable. Honda used to be nice looking but has gone downhill. IMHO the previous Acura TL was one of the best looking sedans around. My how they ruined that.
All of the current Volvos I can think of are pretty nice looking.
Yeah, the first SC and GS were both nice designs - they could only go awry if a buyer slathered on the gold emblems. What the SC became was especially hard on the eyes.
You can to to Germany and rent a F11 like I did (just got the gas bill - $300 for 3 long driving days, yay)...but otherwise, I have to wonder what their strategy is with dropping that wagon. Force people to buy the GT? Those buyers might seek Audi and MB wagons instead.
And now Acura has the Euro Accord wagon on the way, although it isn't to the same spec.
but otherwise, I have to wonder what their strategy is with dropping that wagon. Force people to buy the GT? Those buyers might seek Audi and MB wagons instead.
The E-class MB wagon now has no competition in its market segment. Too bad it's so pricey. It's just about impossible to configure one that costs less than $60K. Otherwise, I might seriously consider it.
As for the GT, I've seen one around town, & it's nothing that I'd want in my driveway.
Just checked my local BMW dealer's inventory. He's got a CPO '09 535xi wagon for $44K. I'll just pretend that I didn't see it.
Just buy it when it's a couple years old - young enough to have warranty and get it starmarked or buy an aftermarket warranty, but old enough to have lost at least 20K in price. IMO smart money doesn't buy those cars new. Kind of like with the 535 you mention - and I bet that price could be knocked down a good 10% or more too, it'll be a year older in less than 2 weeks, and it's the old style now.
Sticker on my 528i rental was well over 60K...Euro, not dollars. It won't cost that much for long.
If I want nice exhaust tuning, I have to say the Germans know how to do it.
Agreed. My 1st car was an BMW; I loved the engine sound. Then when I bought the Lincoln, I noticed the difference. Although the Lincoln was quieter, but the engine sounded like a crying sound, comparing to the BMW's solid sound. Though the new Caddy sounds very nice too, effortless in full throttle.
"Toyota is about to go down in flames. They have I believe lied to cover up the real problem. I have been telling friends and family for weeks my belief that they have tried to hide the bigger issue. Floor mats and the actual gas pedal have nothing to do with the real issue (I believe). The real issue the lies in waiting for the world to see. The real issue I suspect has to do with the Fly By Wire Accelerator to computer interface.
There is a reason the brakes don't work when the computer thinks you are inputting a large amount/percentage of throttle, it's called drive train preservation, and I believe it is likely programmed into the computer.
The computer actually protects the drive train by interfacing/interupting the brakes while the computer believes it is recieving a high percentage of throttle input. IE if you were trying to slow a car you would be lifting off the gas rather than accelerating. So what I am implying is that the so called safety features that everyone seems to think are so fantasic as the auto industry reaches higher plateus of computer driver interface are actually going to far. Let the human with the steering wheel be in control.
I think the root of the problem likely is in the potentiometer that is attached to the accelerator, sending an incorrect signal to the computer. The computer seems to relie on one single input, (not multiple inputs) for the amount of throttle feed to the Intake throttle body servo. When designing safety, the best policy in electronic controls (safety/ inherent to life or death) is to provide primary and secondary features, IE dual signals, evaluate the dual inputs(comparison)this way if the signals inputs vary in difference there can be a computer logic to protect the system and or its user from failure.
"YES! Toyota owner ANGST is ALIVE and visible online! Take a look at the sludge video on YouTube noted above. It now has over 14,000 views and has not even been up for a year yet!
ALIVE indeed! Toyota owner's anger, that is! They are FED UP wit the Toyota lies and deception! See the petition that has been increasing in number since 2003!
Oh...and the vehicle defect is only one small part of the much larger story about CENSORSHIP and control of public information! Remember—-those two MAJOR complaint sites about Toyota went down in the summer of 2004 at roughly the sasme time. There were over 10,000 Toyota complaints filed on the now defunct "Complaint Station for Toyota." The moderators admitted that the site had been hacked multiple times and that they could not get it up and running again. Wasn't Toyota just fine with that?!?
I tried to comment on several of the Prius YouTube videos, but my comments were REMOVED very promptly! The poster is ToyotaUSA, the same one that posts the official information about Toyota on YouTube.
SHAME on Toyota for censoring the vocal Toyota owners! What's the need if there is no real problem?!? "
They are finally getting around to paying up for delaying the recall of all the Tacomas and 4Runners way back early in the decade - there were a couple of deaths in Japan, and they recalled the Prados over there more than a year before they recalled the trucks with the exact same parts over here.
The 2000s were a very dark decade for Toyota indeed.
Will the '10s be better? Seems like some of the customers are seeking other brands, but not enough to ruin them or anything.....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Folks, looks like I am DEAD wrong about toyota. I thought they really build decent cars before the truth came out since the SUA matters. But it turns out that they have been a master of cover-ups, blaming consumers, asking consumers to pay for expensive repairs when its really toyota's fault ! It turns out that toyota have been a big jerk for much longer than I thought !
For those who does'nt know or miss the OTHER story, watch this presentation from start to finish. Its 9 minutes long, be patient, sheds volumes on how horrible they are :
Gosh ! Still want to buy toyota ? But its not just the poor quality of toyota's engines, the worse part is their totally irresponsible attitude. THAT kind of attitude folks, is what makes toyotas VERY VERY DANGEROUS !!!
Its like an airline whose plane often have stalls and engine failures. Many passengers already warned management, instead the airline says " Hell no, that kind of thing just does not happen to us. We are the BEST airline according to JD Power, remember ? Must be your fault ! "
You'd think that if someone was going to go to the trouble of creating an info You Tube, they'd not have it riddled with spelling mistakes. Among others, they even spelled Toyota, Toyta twice.
Let the forum be your pedestal, but sadly only the ones who visit will hear you (Maybe 1/2% of the population?)
My guess is he is on a sweet pension plan with the UAW, and will do anything and everything to protect that and help the domestics. He may have been one of those fork lift operators making six figures due to plain ol' longevity.
Sadly, 90% of import buyers buy another import, so even in Toyota's worst era ever, the domestics have failed to take advantage of it. Instead, Hyundai has.
I couldn't agree with you more about the FX. I'm so glad I have the 1G FX and not the 2G. I don't know why they had to give it that mean catfish look. The 1G looks better overall in my opinion then the 2G does, though the interior in the 2G is 10x better than the 1G. So I guess its about trade-offs.
Very comical As much "damage" as ben66 has done, that's probably why he is paid off by the little guys and not Toyota, the way it is going he will lose the current job too...
Some claimed there is no such thing as sludge caused by toyota's engines. It's all imagination by people who don't like toyota: at least that's what is boiled down to in this discussion where several people worked at getting it turned off, just like the other topics on the net were turned off that you mentioned.
The automaker did not want to disclose how much it gave the relatives of the family who died in an August 2009 Lexus crash outside San Diego.Toyota Motor Corp. cannot keep secret the terms of a settlement it made with the family of four people killed in a Lexus accident outside San Diego last year, a Los Angeles judge has ruled.
Last summer, the Japanese automaker reached a settlement with relatives of the victims for an undisclosed amount. In September, Toyota and the families asked Superior Court Judge Anthony J. Mohr to seal that agreement, arguing that revealing the financial details could prejudice public opinion against Toyota and also affect other pending litigation involving both parties.
But on Monday, Mohr denied that motion, arguing that a compelling case for keeping that information confidential had not been made.
He sided with arguments by the Los Angeles Times and other media outlets, as well as one of Toyota's own dealerships, that the terms of the settlement should not be kept secret.
"At the end of the day, I think the motion to seal is not well taken," Mohr said. "I think that in this case, the right to know overpowers the concerns raised by the plaintiffs and defendants."
The judge did not allow the terms of the settlement to be immediately released, however. He gave the parties 48 hours to seek a stay from the state Court of Appeals, and up to 10 days to decide whether they would withdraw the settlement entirely.
In a statement, Toyota said that it had reached "a private, amicable settlement through mutual respect and cooperation without the involvement of the courts, so we are disappointed that the amount of this settlement may be made public against the express wishes of Toyota and these families."
The size of the settlement, will indicate just how guilty Toyota feels they would be if the case had gone to court. They would never settle if they thought they had any chance of winning in court. Big companies don't do that. My guess is $20 million was the figure they settled on in the Saylor case.
I guess I hit the sweet spot this time. I can sense the rising anger of toyota nuts, employees, dealers here on this forum.
Well, all I can say is, like Emperor Palpatine of Star Wars fame : " Strike me down with all of your hatred, and your journey towards the dark side will be complete ! "
Like toyota, the dark side of the car industry today. Join them if you want. Defend them if you want. All I am doing is giving more facts so that none of us will suffer the fate of the Saylor family or being fooled by toyota one day and pay huge repair bills that don't really belong to us.
But if you still have any decency left in you, my suggestion : Submit your resume to Hyundai USA or Nissan USA or Honda USA. Pick your choice which one you prefer. With your experience, I am very sure they will accept you and may even give you a pay raise.
Then submit your letter of resignation to toyota and say to them " I am tired and sick of all your shenanigans. Enough is enough !! How dare you all fool around with US consumers !!!? "
That, folks, is the RIGHT thing to do !!! You still can earn a decent living without having to help the crooks make money !
How would you like it if next time your grown up kid kids you " Daddy, why did you help the crook toyota make so much money ? "
I was wondering if we were gonna be able to be still and actually wait on the actual settlement amount. Notta.
My guess is $20 million was the figure they settled on in the Saylor case.
Can't say as I blame you that much to guess, as public as this case is it has surpassed the "hush it up for the sake of those involved" category by leaps and bounds. I mean, it's the "1947 Roswell UFO" case of SUA, isn't it? Course it is! It's not just big and nationwide, it's worldwide!
I'll say the amount was $29 million, just to be different.
This spoke volumes abt toyota again. Folks, remember, an honest man have NOTHING to hide !
And obviously, a guilty crook have PLENTY of reasons wanting to cover up this and that. Why is toyota so scared that people know how much they paid off the victims if they did nothing wrong ? And if its the driver's fault ?
Your quote: "I can sense the rising anger of toyota nuts, employees, dealers here on this forum. "
I'd say your imagination is working some of that OT you despise so much. I'd also say your replies were collectively pretty subdued to what the potential could have been. This would suggest you have complex issues, in that you went looking for reaction, didn't get it to the level you had hoped, so filled in the blanks yourself. But everything you said and linked to must be true of course since we read it on the internet.
I think you would have garned a bit more (albeit very slight) credibility had you at least tried to address/defend even?, the poor speller in one of your You Tube choices. But nothing on that front...so you must be ok with such weak examples of free-(if not weak) speech?
Well, all I can say is, like Emperor Palpatine of Star Wars fame : " Strike me down with all of your hatred, and your journey towards the dark side will be complete ! "
I can explain that easily. If I am toyota, all I need to do is to tell the media " Hey fellas, if you guys don't stop reporting my SUA cases, I will stop my advertising with you guys. Remember, last year we are talking abt ME paying YOU hundreds of millions of advertising money. You guys have short memories ? "
What will you do if your big customer toyota threatens to stop his advertisements with you ? You STOP all SUA reports ! Simple as that ! You need that hundreds of millions of dollars to keep your media empire going ! To keep up the growth !
Otherwise, if business falls, the shareholders might find another fella to replace YOU ! Now THATS BAD ! Still have those luxury apartments, Gulfstream payments to think about !
Sad but true. Very often in life, almost everything has a price. Depends on the payoff. But there is a small number of people with the guts to go against the big boys, even if he risks losing money, even life.
For example. Julian Assange and Wikileaks. I really hope he does a toyota piece one day to reveal more internal toyota documents that toyota tried so hard to guard. At this moment though, he is busy revealing the deeds of many crooks in goverments around the world.
Of course toyota sales won't drop to zero that soon. After all, even Madoff fooled many people for so long.
But toyota sales are dropping for sure. Other makes are gaining market share. And it will take quite a while because toyota still have plenty of cash left to shut the mouth's of victims, to threaten to stop advertising if the media keeps on reporting SUA cases (thats why we hear so little now, after all which media wants to lose toyota's big business ?).
And to keep bribing those people who keeps on giving them high ratings of automotive quality " interviews ". Regardless of ever more evidence that toyotas have more than their fair share of quality issues.
It ain't easy to bring down a giant. One guy maybe able to accelerate it. Julian Assange and his Wikileaks team. Hope they do a toyota piece too after they finished with the government business.
Your ID sounds like Jim Press, the former top US toyota guy who have much honour left in him that he left toyota, disgusted with them and even saying " toyota pirates....".
He refused to help pirates make more money, and you should REFUSE too !!
But I thing some toyota employees here will rather AVOID reading the facts than to know and get hurt. Have you all read the story of how toyota fought over small change claimed by the surviving wife of the toyota Japan employee that was worked to death ?
This was a case of not just a big pirate, but a pirate who ruled his crew with an iron hand, who refused to help the family of his crew who died from overwork. Even though we all know their loot was tens of billions which they are so proud of.
I don't believe so. I think our resident Toyota salesman left in disgust during the C4C debate. I could be considered a fanboy with a Toyota and a Lexus in my garage. :-)
I like sticking a knife into the Toyota ribs from time to time.
I don't believe Toyota HAS any employees; just a bunch a temps they tantalize with the promise of full-time employment which they never deliver. But that's another scandal for another topic.
Comments
Though the Germans haven't done any better. BMW's Bangled styling is now infamous, and updates are conservative at best. The 5 series GT and X6 are downright ugly - only the ZDX compares.
Benz and Audi are not bad, but both had designs peak about a generation ago.
IMHO Audi had it nailed down about 5 years ago, but they had to update their designs, and there was nowhere to go but down.
Agree with all of the above.
Also, VW had it best a generation ago. New ones look like Toyotas, except the new Jetta, which is just bland and cheap.
And the first SC coupe has survived the test of time, too.
Current ones are indeed a bit bland, which works better for the big LS than it does the smaller sedans.
I like the Lexus GX because it reminds me of the Land Cruiser Prado models I saw while in the jungles of Belize. Cool in a way the chopped-looking 4Runner is not.
I can't think of a brand, besides Aston Martin perhaps, that is consistently beautiful, however. If Aston does an SUV, I officially give up.
I think Audi used to fit into this camp. Now those LEDs look like too much eyeshadow. And the Q7 is hideous.
Toyota is perennially ugly to just passable. Honda used to be nice looking but has gone downhill. IMHO the previous Acura TL was one of the best looking sedans around. My how they ruined that.
All of the current Volvos I can think of are pretty nice looking.
I agree, but I'm sorry to see that BMW dropped the station wagon from the 5-series lineup.
If I could find a leftover '10 535i wagon, I'd be sorely tempted.
And now Acura has the Euro Accord wagon on the way, although it isn't to the same spec.
The E-class MB wagon now has no competition in its market segment. Too bad it's so pricey. It's just about impossible to configure one that costs less than $60K. Otherwise, I might seriously consider it.
As for the GT, I've seen one around town, & it's nothing that I'd want in my driveway.
Just checked my local BMW dealer's inventory. He's got a CPO '09 535xi wagon for $44K. I'll just pretend that I didn't see it.
Sticker on my 528i rental was well over 60K...Euro, not dollars. It won't cost that much for long.
Designed by Liberache?
LED lighting is the new chrome, the new tail fins. It's neat but being grossly overused.
I think some dealers were guilty of that, and yes, those were hideous.
I like Maserati...
Though the Kubang wasn't a bad concept (for a crossover).
Agreed. My 1st car was an BMW; I loved the engine sound. Then when I bought the Lincoln, I noticed the difference. Although the Lincoln was quieter, but the engine sounded like a crying sound, comparing to the BMW's solid sound. Though the new Caddy sounds very nice too, effortless in full throttle.
"Toyota is about to go down in flames.
They have I believe lied to cover up the real problem. I have been telling friends and family for weeks my belief that they have tried to hide the bigger issue. Floor mats and the actual gas pedal have nothing to do with the real issue (I believe). The real issue the lies in waiting for the world to see. The real issue I suspect has to do with the Fly By Wire Accelerator to computer interface.
There is a reason the brakes don't work when the computer thinks you are inputting a large amount/percentage of throttle, it's called drive train preservation, and I believe it is likely programmed into the computer.
The computer actually protects the drive train by interfacing/interupting the brakes while the computer believes it is recieving a high percentage of throttle input. IE if you were trying to slow a car you would be lifting off the gas rather than accelerating. So what I am implying is that the so called safety features that everyone seems to think are so fantasic as the auto industry reaches higher plateus of computer driver interface are actually going to far. Let the human with the steering wheel be in control.
I think the root of the problem likely is in the potentiometer that is attached to the accelerator, sending an incorrect signal to the computer. The computer seems to relie on one single input, (not multiple inputs) for the amount of throttle feed to the Intake throttle body servo. When designing safety, the best policy in electronic controls (safety/ inherent to life or death) is to provide primary and secondary features, IE dual signals, evaluate the dual inputs(comparison)this way if the signals inputs vary in difference there can be a computer logic to protect the system and or its user from failure.
ALIVE indeed! Toyota owner's anger, that is! They are FED UP wit the Toyota lies and deception! See the petition that has been increasing in number since 2003!
Oh...and the vehicle defect is only one small part of the much larger story about CENSORSHIP and control of public information! Remember—-those two MAJOR complaint sites about Toyota went down in the summer of 2004 at roughly the sasme time. There were over 10,000 Toyota complaints filed on the now defunct "Complaint Station for Toyota." The moderators admitted that the site had been hacked multiple times and that they could not get it up and running again. Wasn't Toyota just fine with that?!?
I tried to comment on several of the Prius YouTube videos, but my comments were REMOVED very promptly! The poster is ToyotaUSA, the same one that posts the official information about Toyota on YouTube.
SHAME on Toyota for censoring the vocal Toyota owners! What's the need if there is no real problem?!? "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNEZPKF_M_s
The 2000s were a very dark decade for Toyota indeed.
Will the '10s be better? Seems like some of the customers are seeking other brands, but not enough to ruin them or anything.....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
For those who does'nt know or miss the OTHER story, watch this presentation from start to finish. Its 9 minutes long, be patient, sheds volumes on how horrible they are :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNEZPKF_M_s
Gosh ! Still want to buy toyota ? But its not just the poor quality of toyota's engines, the worse part is their totally irresponsible attitude. THAT kind of attitude folks, is what makes toyotas VERY VERY DANGEROUS !!!
Its like an airline whose plane often have stalls and engine failures. Many passengers already warned management, instead the airline says " Hell no, that kind of thing just does not happen to us. We are the BEST airline according to JD Power, remember ? Must be your fault ! "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzLdDS9HYLE
http://www.tmpcwa.org/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2YUBhzPjuQ
And you EXPECT QUALITY to come out of labour treatment like that ? Give me a break !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecJB7IU3mFs&feature=related
How does he explain the 80% drop in NHTSA SUA complaints since those have been fixed?
He can't.
Whoop-de-doo....
The swagger wagon video has 7,742,429 hits and it's been up for just 7 months, LOL!
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=swagger+wagon&aq=0
As for the censorship, are you saying Toyota is paying off YouTube as well as everyone else?
Or perhaps you posted something unsubstantiated and/or innappropriate?
Let the forum be your pedestal, but sadly only the ones who visit will hear you (Maybe 1/2% of the population?)
The rest of the world will keep buying and driving Toyotas like they have been.
I'd also have avoided using generic PPT themes for the background (that one's called Flow, it's the 8th one). Not a lot of effort.
FWIW the 1MZ V6 hasn't been used since 2003, and Toyota agreed to cover those for 7/100k miles.
My guess is he is on a sweet pension plan with the UAW, and will do anything and everything to protect that and help the domestics. He may have been one of those fork lift operators making six figures due to plain ol' longevity.
Sadly, 90% of import buyers buy another import, so even in Toyota's worst era ever, the domestics have failed to take advantage of it. Instead, Hyundai has.
URL for those who can't see it on the screen:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4504/myspacegens7794375651.gif
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I say get a new Quest, a Dodge GC with the new Pentastar V6, and a Kia Sedona with its new V6, and do a 5-van comparo.
Some claimed there is no such thing as sludge caused by toyota's engines. It's all imagination by people who don't like toyota: at least that's what is boiled down to in this discussion where several people worked at getting it turned off, just like the other topics on the net were turned off that you mentioned.
Edmunds toyota sludge turned off after requests by some posters.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The automaker did not want to disclose how much it gave the relatives of the family who died in an August 2009 Lexus crash outside San Diego.Toyota Motor Corp. cannot keep secret the terms of a settlement it made with the family of four people killed in a Lexus accident outside San Diego last year, a Los Angeles judge has ruled.
Last summer, the Japanese automaker reached a settlement with relatives of the victims for an undisclosed amount. In September, Toyota and the families asked Superior Court Judge Anthony J. Mohr to seal that agreement, arguing that revealing the financial details could prejudice public opinion against Toyota and also affect other pending litigation involving both parties.
But on Monday, Mohr denied that motion, arguing that a compelling case for keeping that information confidential had not been made.
He sided with arguments by the Los Angeles Times and other media outlets, as well as one of Toyota's own dealerships, that the terms of the settlement should not be kept secret.
"At the end of the day, I think the motion to seal is not well taken," Mohr said. "I think that in this case, the right to know overpowers the concerns raised by the plaintiffs and defendants."
The judge did not allow the terms of the settlement to be immediately released, however. He gave the parties 48 hours to seek a stay from the state Court of Appeals, and up to 10 days to decide whether they would withdraw the settlement entirely.
In a statement, Toyota said that it had reached "a private, amicable settlement through mutual respect and cooperation without the involvement of the courts, so we are disappointed that the amount of this settlement may be made public against the express wishes of Toyota and these families."
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-settlement-20101221,0,4821038.story-
The size of the settlement, will indicate just how guilty Toyota feels they would be if the case had gone to court. They would never settle if they thought they had any chance of winning in court. Big companies don't do that. My guess is $20 million was the figure they settled on in the Saylor case.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE3DTJaTAiM&feature=email
By the way, I drive Nissan, not GM. Get this right.
Well, all I can say is, like Emperor Palpatine of Star Wars fame : " Strike me down with all of your hatred, and your journey towards the dark side will be complete ! "
Like toyota, the dark side of the car industry today. Join them if you want. Defend them if you want. All I am doing is giving more facts so that none of us will suffer the fate of the Saylor family or being fooled by toyota one day and pay huge repair bills that don't really belong to us.
But if you still have any decency left in you, my suggestion : Submit your resume to Hyundai USA or Nissan USA or Honda USA. Pick your choice which one you prefer. With your experience, I am very sure they will accept you and may even give you a pay raise.
Then submit your letter of resignation to toyota and say to them " I am tired and sick of all your shenanigans. Enough is enough !! How dare you all fool around with US consumers !!!? "
That, folks, is the RIGHT thing to do !!! You still can earn a decent living without having to help the crooks make money !
How would you like it if next time your grown up kid kids you " Daddy, why did you help the crook toyota make so much money ? "
My guess is $20 million was the figure they settled on in the Saylor case.
Can't say as I blame you that much to guess, as public as this case is it has surpassed the "hush it up for the sake of those involved" category by leaps and bounds. I mean, it's the "1947 Roswell UFO" case of SUA, isn't it? Course it is! It's not just big and nationwide, it's worldwide!
I'll say the amount was $29 million, just to be different.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
And obviously, a guilty crook have PLENTY of reasons wanting to cover up this and that. Why is toyota so scared that people know how much they paid off the victims if they did nothing wrong ? And if its the driver's fault ?
Any toyota employee want to answer this ?
"I can sense the rising anger of toyota nuts, employees, dealers here on this forum. "
I'd say your imagination is working some of that OT you despise so much.
I'd also say your replies were collectively pretty subdued to what the potential could have been. This would suggest you have complex issues, in that you went looking for reaction, didn't get it to the level you had hoped, so filled in the blanks yourself. But everything you said and linked to must be true of course since we read it on the internet.
I think you would have garned a bit more (albeit very slight) credibility had you at least tried to address/defend even?, the poor speller in one of your You Tube choices. But nothing on that front...so you must be ok with such weak examples of free-(if not weak) speech?
Might be time for you to switch to decaf.
What will you do if your big customer toyota threatens to stop his advertisements with you ? You STOP all SUA reports ! Simple as that ! You need that hundreds of millions of dollars to keep your media empire going ! To keep up the growth !
Otherwise, if business falls, the shareholders might find another fella to replace YOU ! Now THATS BAD ! Still have those luxury apartments, Gulfstream payments to think about !
Sad but true. Very often in life, almost everything has a price. Depends on the payoff. But there is a small number of people with the guts to go against the big boys, even if he risks losing money, even life.
For example. Julian Assange and Wikileaks. I really hope he does a toyota piece one day to reveal more internal toyota documents that toyota tried so hard to guard. At this moment though, he is busy revealing the deeds of many crooks in goverments around the world.
But toyota sales are dropping for sure. Other makes are gaining market share. And it will take quite a while because toyota still have plenty of cash left to shut the mouth's of victims, to threaten to stop advertising if the media keeps on reporting SUA cases (thats why we hear so little now, after all which media wants to lose toyota's big business ?).
And to keep bribing those people who keeps on giving them high ratings of automotive quality " interviews ". Regardless of ever more evidence that toyotas have more than their fair share of quality issues.
It ain't easy to bring down a giant. One guy maybe able to accelerate it. Julian Assange and his Wikileaks team. Hope they do a toyota piece too after they finished with the government business.
He refused to help pirates make more money, and you should REFUSE too !!
But I thing some toyota employees here will rather AVOID reading the facts than to know and get hurt. Have you all read the story of how toyota fought over small change claimed by the surviving wife of the toyota Japan employee that was worked to death ?
This was a case of not just a big pirate, but a pirate who ruled his crew with an iron hand, who refused to help the family of his crew who died from overwork. Even though we all know their loot was tens of billions which they are so proud of.
I'm certainly not one and the usual daily posters don't appear to be either, but maybe on some of the other boards outside the N&V...
Heck, I've never even owned a Toyo let alone work for them :shades:
I don't believe so. I think our resident Toyota salesman left in disgust during the C4C debate. I could be considered a fanboy with a Toyota and a Lexus in my garage. :-)
I like sticking a knife into the Toyota ribs from time to time.