I had a 1968 Buick Special Deluxe and could fill it until you can see the fuel right at the edge of the filler neck. The filler neck itself could hold an extra two gallons, thus increasing range.
I can do the same thing in the fintail, which makes me fear leaving a trail of gas as I pull off. I keep an eye on it and stop when I can see the gas at the base of the filler neck. Once not long after I bought the car I had a spill and it was like a small flood, I was very embarrassed.
That could be it, and maybe the opposite here. I notice if it cuts off, I wait maybe 20 seconds, and put a little more in, I can easily go a half gallon more with no issues.
There's a little bit posted in the Plants in Japan after the Earthquake discussion but I haven't seen anything about closings or evacuations due to fallout.
"one of my key things in buying cars is to never buy a car in a color I don't like. It's not even just color - but I won't touch something that has any feature that I really dislike. Life is too short to put up with an ugly car."
I TOTALLY agree with you, Fezo..... I've dumped many a car simply because I didn't like it.
I don't blame you and feel the same way. No matter what manufacturer it is, it is absolutely absurd and completely unacceptable not to let the consumer test drive and thoroughly look over and get a feel for the vehicle. The salesman seem to forget that vehicles are the second biggest purchases people make in their lives. I guess some of them really don't care. My one Uncle feels the same way now about Hyundai after what they were asking for the Sonata and wouldn't let him test drive one.
Not only that, but my Uncle went to a second Hyundai dealer further away from him to see if it was just that dealer specifically, but the second Hyundai dealer did and said nearly the same thing.
Funny enough, he ended up having to go back and get a Honda rather than the Hyundai he wanted.
That's crazy...I can think of very few cars on the market that can justify an ADM, and none of them are from Hyundai. They'd better be careful or that Sonata hybrid with the gaping maw mouth will end up invisible like the Altima hybrid.
Don't expect Toyota to touch NUMMI or CA again. I think they learned their lesson dealing with the UAW. They have let Tesla carry the torch in CA. It will never be NUMMI again except in people's minds.
Tesla is not the new NUMMI
In this week’s San Francisco Business Times print edition, I write about a company called Plastikon that used to make things like mudflaps and door handles for the New United Motor Manufacturing Inc. factory. Plastikon is maybe the only NUMMI supplier from Alameda County that was nimble enough to reinvent itself by supplying parts to solar companies, survive the economic downturn and live long enough to negotiate a supplier agreement with Tesla Motors.
As for the rest of the auto suppliers, almost all of Alameda County’s 30 NUMMI suppliers shut down overnight — many on the not-funny-at-all April Fools Day 2009. And many of their workers have still not found jobs.
In Alameda County alone, 5,895 workers at the plant or at direct suppliers to the plant lost their jobs when NUMMI closed and that didn’t include companies with fewer than 50 employees or suppliers to other suppliers, Bertuccelli said.
A state report estimated the closure cost 20,000 jobs in the state.
This is why a lot of hope rides on Tesla Motors.
Skeptics say the electric vehicle startup can’t possibly scale – not in this economic environment and certainly not in California, which holds the unflattering top spot on the list of worst places to do business in the country.
Meanwhile the New Tesla factory is buzzing with activity – or at least it was last time I visited. While Tesla is putting former NUMMI suppliers like the guys at Plastikon to work, its also creating new market opportunities to the techno-innovative kinds of companies that have made Silicon Valley world-renowned.
In the short term, Tesla hopes to employ 1,000 workers and produce 20,000 of the Model S sedans at the new Tesla factory in 2012, while Toyota and GM made more than 300,000 at the height of NUMMI.
Dumb [non-permissible content removed] dealer probably figured the car is hot so I can gouge over MSRP and do other things like demand a deposit to test drive. What they don't realize is that most of the potential buyers who walk don't bother coming back down the road. There are lots of cars and lots of dealers out there.
I can think of very few cars on the market that can justify an ADM
I will do you one better. I cannot think of a vehicle that is worth MSRP. I know I would NEVER pay much over invoice no matter how much I loved a vehicle. That would include a wonderful small diesel PU or SUV.
That is why when gas is expensive is the best time to buy that SUV you have always wanted. You will save enough money to pay for the difference in gas no matter how much it gets to be.
Yeah, looks like SIA pre-emptively canceled all overtime.
Bad news for Subaru especially since they already do not have enough supply of Outbacks.
Camry is made on a different assembly line and that'll slow a bit, too.
80% of the world's silicon wafers come from Japan. Ford is afraid that their hybrid production will be affected since batteries are sourced from Japan.
And I agree with gagrice, virtually nothing on the market is legitimately deserving of an ADM. Some may get it due to irrational consumers, but in this economy, one would have to be silly at best, or stupid.
Paying MSRP is not necessarily a bad thing. Probably is most of the time but it depends on the situation. For example, if a person has a car that's costing them money and giving them problems, by waiting too long, the costs of repairing their existing car can outweigh the cost of paying MSRP.
For example when I bought my Honda Fit back at the end of 2006, every lot was selling them at MSRP. There was no incentive for the dealer to go below MSRP because they were going out about as fast as they were coming in. About a year later they were going down in price, but by then who knows how much more I would have spent on repairs to my old car. The difference between invoice and MSRP was only $600, so if I had waited a year to get the vehicle at less than MSRP just to save a few hundred dollars, it wouldn't have been worth the wait financially.
Plus I know & read about some paying "less than invoice" only to be screwed on their trade-in. So on the one hand they're bragging about how they paid less than invoice and saved $1000 but meanwhile they lost $3000 on their trade-in.
Bottom line is that that paying MSRP while probably not the smartest thing in many situations is only on factor in buying a car. Without know all of the other details saying "I'll never pay MSRP" is meaningless.
>What next, they'll charge a little less for 78% pure (*) nitrogen?
You and I both know that the Kia store didn't take all the Korean air out of the tires and replace it with the nominally 95% N2 from their separator in the service department here.
I couldn't believe it when friend showed me the window sticker. I do know they negotiated a price based on other factors like the bottom line. But a $2600 ADM markup on a $18,000 or $20,000 coupe is really good.
No offense meant to your friend, but he's not too sharp.
I can see an in demand model (dunno of a Forte "K"oup qualifies) going for MSRP, but anything more just isn't realistic in this day and age. If you finance with a "deal" like that, you just get to remain upside-down that much longer too, no way to win.
Back in the old days local Honda dealers would try the second sticker, and Toyota dealers would hold firm on MSRP...not anymore. There's a VW dealer in the region who was notorious for the ADM too, not sure if they do it anymore.
I haven't seen such stuff at MB/BMW/Lexus dealers around here anyway, but as my eyes are bigger than my wallet, I don't browse often elsewhere :shades:
Yeah, odd stuff can behave differently than mass market stuff. Although I was still a kid, I remember what happened with high end Ferraris in 1989 - you weren't getting a F40 for sticker. I also remember the first R129 SLs going for 100K+ back in the same time period.
But for someone to pay a ~15% ADM (as that VW dealer liked to add to boring old Jettas and Passats) is craziness.
Quick ADM story. My Uncle ran a fairly large Dodge dealership back when the Viper first came out. Every dealer had a pretty large ADM on them. He let his go pretty fast at MSRP. He talked to other dealers at the time and they thought he was crazy. The way he saw it, he would have rather moved it at a nice buck and hopefully get another allocation (which he did) while the other dealers waited to hit a homerun selling it above sticker.
Another odd one comes to mind - loaded early PT Cruisers - I remember these going for nearly 30K in the first many months of 2000, and Canadian dealers sending their allotments to the states as the greenback was worth more then. The people who bought those were certifiable.
Until I read your post, I had forgotten about the PT Cruiser feeding frenzy.
Chrysler's marketing geniuses had hoped that the PT would pull in 20-something buyers, who would then become life-long Chrysler loyalists. They wanted to copy Toyota's success with the Corolla, which had been a big hit with young boomers back in the early 70s. Many of those boomers stayed with Toyota & are driving Avalons today.
Although the PT was a sales success, at least initially, young buyers stayed away from it in droves. I don't think I've ever seen anyone under the age of 45 behind the wheel of a PT.
You're right: the people who paid way over sticker for those things were certifiable.
The boomer-hoarders as I call them - more money than sense, and the PT was perfect for hauling loads of junk from Wally World and yard sales. I've never known a young person who owned one either...my mother had one as a rental when she was into her 60s, and loathed it. That some literally paid 25K++ for one 11 years ago is just shocking to think about.
I like 'em. Never driven one but I thought it was a mistake for Chrysler to stop making them. They don't have any other wagons in the line-up and the only hatch they have is the Fiat 500. They could have kept it going for those customers who want a bit more room but don't want a Town and Country.
Doesn't look any worse that a Matrix or Prius (since this is a Toyota board).
Cruddy interior which I think got worse with age, eventually ancient mechanicals , mushy indifferent handling...pretty bad stuff. And then the dorky way many were customized...oh, I loved the ones with wide whites.
When they first hit the road, I wanted to like them too...but they seemed to become very uncool very fast, and were mostly downgraded as they aged, in that brilliant Detroit strategy.
The Matrix is seriously hideous now - more of that Toyota "style", the PT is actually better looking by a mile.
My 68 year old tax man had to have a PT Cruiser when they first came out. He ordered it and paid full price with all the flames etc tacked on. He was most upset when he traded it about 3 years later on an RX300. They gave him next to nothing. Well under low BB. He was in a hurry as he had bought a new place in Florida and sold his home here in San Diego. Now the RX sits in the garage and he drives his golf cart all over The Villages. He is an avid golfer and they have about 20 courses to play on.
No real need for a vehicle. It is all within golf cart range.
The BBC tweets that "Toyota Motor shares have tumbled as the yen surges to a record high against the dollar, threatening to squeeze profits on cars it builds at home for foreign markets, Reuters reports. "Companies can absorb gradual changes no matter what the range, but this sudden change in just one night, and if it continues to the end of March, will be very bad news for exporters including Toyota," says Yuuki Sakurai, the CEO of Fukoku Capital in Tokyo."
(Gary, your friend needs to mod up his golf car to look like a PT Cruiser. )
You're right: the people who paid way over sticker for those things were certifiable.
Like this gentleman?
The PT Cruiser may have failed to pull in all those 20-somethings, but I understand it was a smash hit with executives from midsized regional paper supply companies.
When they first hit the road, I wanted to like them too...but they seemed to become very uncool very fast, and were mostly downgraded as they aged, in that brilliant Detroit strategy.
The Matrix is seriously hideous now - more of that Toyota "style", the PT is actually better looking by a mile.
I always liked the looks of the PT Cruiser. I finally had one a number of years ago as a rental and was disappointed. If they had put a really nice interior in that car and give it some decent mechanicals, it could have been a really good vehicle.
I agree, the Matrix is hideous and much worse looking that the previous version. Which is why perhaps I almost never see the new ones on the road.
Comments
My old W126 had an issue, you could hear a little air whoosh in when you removed the cap...but everything else seemed fine.
You might have damaged the evap canister by overfilling last time.
I TOTALLY agree with you, Fezo..... I've dumped many a car simply because I didn't like it.
Subaru and Toyota to Cut NA Production
Funny enough, he ended up having to go back and get a Honda rather than the Hyundai he wanted.
Tesla is not the new NUMMI
In this week’s San Francisco Business Times print edition, I write about a company called Plastikon that used to make things like mudflaps and door handles for the New United Motor Manufacturing Inc. factory. Plastikon is maybe the only NUMMI supplier from Alameda County that was nimble enough to reinvent itself by supplying parts to solar companies, survive the economic downturn and live long enough to negotiate a supplier agreement with Tesla Motors.
As for the rest of the auto suppliers, almost all of Alameda County’s 30 NUMMI suppliers shut down overnight — many on the not-funny-at-all April Fools Day 2009. And many of their workers have still not found jobs.
In Alameda County alone, 5,895 workers at the plant or at direct suppliers to the plant lost their jobs when NUMMI closed and that didn’t include companies with fewer than 50 employees or suppliers to other suppliers, Bertuccelli said.
A state report estimated the closure cost 20,000 jobs in the state.
This is why a lot of hope rides on Tesla Motors.
Skeptics say the electric vehicle startup can’t possibly scale – not in this economic environment and certainly not in California, which holds the unflattering top spot on the list of worst places to do business in the country.
Meanwhile the New Tesla factory is buzzing with activity – or at least it was last time I visited. While Tesla is putting former NUMMI suppliers like the guys at Plastikon to work, its also creating new market opportunities to the techno-innovative kinds of companies that have made Silicon Valley world-renowned.
In the short term, Tesla hopes to employ 1,000 workers and produce 20,000 of the Model S sedans at the new Tesla factory in 2012, while Toyota and GM made more than 300,000 at the height of NUMMI.
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/blog/2011/02/tesla-is-not-the-new-nummi.- html
Wouldn't rule anything completely out though.
How about a Kia?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I will do you one better. I cannot think of a vehicle that is worth MSRP. I know I would NEVER pay much over invoice no matter how much I loved a vehicle. That would include a wonderful small diesel PU or SUV.
That is why when gas is expensive is the best time to buy that SUV you have always wanted. You will save enough money to pay for the difference in gas no matter how much it gets to be.
Yeah, looks like SIA pre-emptively canceled all overtime.
Bad news for Subaru especially since they already do not have enough supply of Outbacks.
Camry is made on a different assembly line and that'll slow a bit, too.
80% of the world's silicon wafers come from Japan. Ford is afraid that their hybrid production will be affected since batteries are sourced from Japan.
This will stall the CT launch, too.
And I agree with gagrice, virtually nothing on the market is legitimately deserving of an ADM. Some may get it due to irrational consumers, but in this economy, one would have to be silly at best, or stupid.
I knew a guy who paid $1750 over MSRP for an NA Miata when they came out.
I waited and bought a used one for 1/3rd what he paid, and it only had 26k miles on it. I put more miles on it than the original owner did!
Paying over MSRP is about the dumbest thing you can do.
For example when I bought my Honda Fit back at the end of 2006, every lot was selling them at MSRP. There was no incentive for the dealer to go below MSRP because they were going out about as fast as they were coming in. About a year later they were going down in price, but by then who knows how much more I would have spent on repairs to my old car. The difference between invoice and MSRP was only $600, so if I had waited a year to get the vehicle at less than MSRP just to save a few hundred dollars, it wouldn't have been worth the wait financially.
Plus I know & read about some paying "less than invoice" only to be screwed on their trade-in. So on the one hand they're bragging about how they paid less than invoice and saved $1000 but meanwhile they lost $3000 on their trade-in.
Bottom line is that that paying MSRP while probably not the smartest thing in many situations is only on factor in buying a car. Without know all of the other details saying "I'll never pay MSRP" is meaningless.
Friends of ours showed me a window sticker for their Kia--it had a $2500 ADM AND an extra $100 for nitrogen!!! Forte Koup'--bright red.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
* that's the air we breathe
You and I both know that the Kia store didn't take all the Korean air out of the tires and replace it with the nominally 95% N2 from their separator in the service department here.
I couldn't believe it when friend showed me the window sticker. I do know they negotiated a price based on other factors like the bottom line. But a $2600 ADM markup on a $18,000 or $20,000 coupe is really good.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'm totally kidding. LOL
Dealer are for-profit and operate independently, but it is any surprised that car salesman are among the least trusted?
Plus, dealers like that spoil it for the honest ones.
I can see an in demand model (dunno of a Forte "K"oup qualifies) going for MSRP, but anything more just isn't realistic in this day and age. If you finance with a "deal" like that, you just get to remain upside-down that much longer too, no way to win.
Back in the old days local Honda dealers would try the second sticker, and Toyota dealers would hold firm on MSRP...not anymore. There's a VW dealer in the region who was notorious for the ADM too, not sure if they do it anymore.
The key is it's the dealer setting the price, not the manufacturer. They merely suggest a price, which noone follows.
I haven't seen such stuff at MB/BMW/Lexus dealers around here anyway, but as my eyes are bigger than my wallet, I don't browse often elsewhere :shades:
The Nissan GT-R has enormous markups, but so did some special edition Mustangs.
But for someone to pay a ~15% ADM (as that VW dealer liked to add to boring old Jettas and Passats) is craziness.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
Another odd one comes to mind - loaded early PT Cruisers - I remember these going for nearly 30K in the first many months of 2000, and Canadian dealers sending their allotments to the states as the greenback was worth more then. The people who bought those were certifiable.
Chrysler's marketing geniuses had hoped that the PT would pull in 20-something buyers, who would then become life-long Chrysler loyalists. They wanted to copy Toyota's success with the Corolla, which had been a big hit with young boomers back in the early 70s. Many of those boomers stayed with Toyota & are driving Avalons today.
Although the PT was a sales success, at least initially, young buyers stayed away from it in droves. I don't think I've ever seen anyone under the age of 45 behind the wheel of a PT.
You're right: the people who paid way over sticker for those things were certifiable.
Doesn't look any worse that a Matrix or Prius (since this is a Toyota board).
When they first hit the road, I wanted to like them too...but they seemed to become very uncool very fast, and were mostly downgraded as they aged, in that brilliant Detroit strategy.
The Matrix is seriously hideous now - more of that Toyota "style", the PT is actually better looking by a mile.
No real need for a vehicle. It is all within golf cart range.
http://www.thevillages.com/index.htm
(Gary, your friend needs to mod up his golf car to look like a PT Cruiser.
Like this gentleman?
The PT Cruiser may have failed to pull in all those 20-somethings, but I understand it was a smash hit with executives from midsized regional paper supply companies.
The Matrix is seriously hideous now - more of that Toyota "style", the PT is actually better looking by a mile.
I always liked the looks of the PT Cruiser. I finally had one a number of years ago as a rental and was disappointed. If they had put a really nice interior in that car and give it some decent mechanicals, it could have been a really good vehicle.
I agree, the Matrix is hideous and much worse looking that the previous version. Which is why perhaps I almost never see the new ones on the road.
Surprised he didn't have a Solara too.
The only new Matrix I see are rentals.