Toyota on the mend?

fintail

Did we? Who provided the labor and work ethic?

I don't know if I can go for that...like when people say "we rebuilt" Germany...of course, don't mention that Britain and France received significantly more funds than Germany...and now the latter is much more affluent than the former two.

We did provide some of the management theory used by the Japanese too too...of course, our shortsighted treacherous CEO class disregarded it, and now look at the result.

ateixeira

Yep, they subscribed to Deming's theories more than US companies did.

Of course the whole idea of single sourcing (one supplier) backfires in situations like the tsunami, because now no one else can make replacement parts, and there are parts shortages.

I guess Deming wasn't expecting 30 foot waves moving the island of Japan 8 feet to the East.

jimbres

We built most of their factories, including the best car factories they had ever seen.

You're thinking of the Marshall Plan, which was aimed exclusively at Europe. AFAIK, we did practically no rebuilding in Japan.

Japan's big break was the Korean War. Suddenly, we needed a million little things to support an army of 300,000 troops - boot laces, blankets, etc. - and it was faster & easier to get that stuff from Japan.

Also, American photojournalists on R&R in Tokyo got to see just how good Japanese cameras & optics were. That was the beginning of the end of German dominance.

busiris

You're thinking of the Marshall Plan, which was aimed exclusively at Europe. AFAIK, we did practically no rebuilding in Japan.

Japan's big break was the Korean War. Suddenly, we needed a million little things to support an army of 300,000 troops - boot laces, blankets, etc. - and it was faster & easier to get that stuff from Japan

We have a winner...Please select any stuffed animal from the top row...

This link fairly well explains post WWII Japan. In fact, it was, at one time, intended to be an agricultural-based economy.... Until the Korean "police action"...

http://www.applet-magic.com/japanrecov.htm

Prime Minister Nakasone Yasuhiro asserted that the procurement demand for the Korean War was like divine aid to the Japanese economy. The Allied Powers had originally envisioned a Japan agriculturally oriented with only light manufacturing. Instead the Japan that developed ultimately devoted itself to steel, cars, ships and electronics.

ateixeira

Saw this one coming...

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/23/report-toyota-prius-v-launch-delayed-in-japan- -due-to-earthquake/

as of now, the U.S. and European launches of the Prius V are not expected to be delayed.

Good luck with that one. Fat chance it won't be delayed.

gagrice

So Toyota is not ready to risk their reputation on Li-Ion batteries yet?

One of the key reasons for this delay is that one of the plants damaged in the earthquake, operated by Primearth EV Energy Co., supplies batteries for Toyota's hybrid vehicles. This plant has the capacity to supply enough nickel-metal hydride battery packs for up around 300,000 vehicles annually. With this plant offline, Toyota faces a 27 percent drop in hybrid production.

PS
No 7 passenger Prius for USA. Probably designed for little people.

ateixeira

Small indeed, but I've seen worse. Honda sells a CR-V in the Phillippines that has some ridiculous seating capacity (9 IIRC?). They do it to escape certain taxes, I believe.

Edit: yep, 9, here's a 2002 model:



If it doesn't embed, here's the URL:

http://images03.olx.com.ph/ui/13/97/98/1299649344_175158998_7-2002-Honda-CR-V-AT- - -Gen2-Philippines.jpg

RAV4 offers a 3rd row but at least they stretched the wheelbase for the US model (it's longer than the european one).

Li-ion has been out for a while. Toyota actually waited and isn't the first.

ateixeira

Toyota braces for slowdown in North American output

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110323/OEM01/110329940/1117- - #ixzz1HWXLQqoV

fezo

How do you get into the back row in that CRV? Pole vault?

ateixeira

Put a trampouline in the cargo hold, of course!

ateixeira

Simply incredible:

http://jalopnik.com/#!5785281

I can't get the DC government to fill pot holes in 6 weeks!

ateixeira

http://www.autoobserver.com/2011/03/production-status-in-japan-remains-murky.htm- l

Toyota seemingly is prioritizing the restart of hybrid production lines amid worries about inventory depletion in the United States, where Edmunds.com data indicate consideration of the Prius, in particular, has swelled as gasoline prices continue to stay inflated

gagrice

That is amazing. I never believed the Japanese would waste a lot of time whining like the people of New Orleans.

Six weeks would be wonderful for US in the People's Socialist Republic of California. Other than the Interstate highways, our roads are like driving in a 3rd world country. How long will a light suspension like used in CamCords hold up to the road abuse. Gravel would be better than pothole riddled streets. The worst part is we have the highest gas tax in the Nation. And Ahnold tried raising it before he left office. How does your state rank compared to Numero uno CA?

http://www.api.org/statistics/fueltaxes/upload/Gasoline-Tax-Map.pdf

I know this should be in $4 gas thread. Just comparing US to the Japanese on getting things done without a lot of red tape.

ateixeira

I dunno, CamCords have compliant suspensions with plenty of travel.

I'm more worried about sporty cars like my Miata, or cars with grossly oversized wheels (Nissan has some with 20"s).

DC would give Cali some fierce competition!

gagrice

My only experience with lower profile tires was on my 05 Passat. It had the optional 17 inch. They were rough riding on the potholes. Give me the fattest donuts available for my vehicle. I would never consider putting any lower profile tires on my Sequoia. It has 17s and that is ok considering the overall size of the tires.

ateixeira

Toyota puts gigantic wheels on the Venza. It's a silly trend.

Just looked - 19" on the standard model, 20"s on the top of the line. Ridiculous.

I say put the smallest diameter wheel that fits over your brakes, for the least unsprung weight. As long as good tires are available in that size.

Huge wheels force all sort of trade-offs - more rotational inertia so you actually accelerate slower, more unsprung weight so it does not handle as well, and more weight to stop so braking is adversely affected. Plus the stiff ride.

You gain steering feel, and possibly higher performance tire selection, but that's about it.

I bet anything my Sienna rides a lot better than a Venza.

fintail

I don't know if "steering feel" and "performance" are on the minds of Camry wagon/Venza buyers anyway :shades:

ateixeira

Good point, for Venza buyers it's Bling.

I wonder what a 20"x7.5" rim weighs? Probably a lot.

Also imagine the tire costs.

imidazol97

>You gain steering feel, and possibly higher performance tire selection

And you can change the choice of tire brands and performance tire types more often with the damage that occurs due to damage to tire and rim with shallow sidewalls.

berri

I don't see a lot of Venza's, even in the west. I don't think they are huge sellers so maybe that should be a tip to the manufacturers that people that actually buy new cars aren't all that big into gang banger bling. Let's get back to realistic and more affordable regular 16 inchers - better ride, better traction and better replacement prices. One of the biggest complaints I see on Toyota blogs are those large Toyo tires that apparently cost a fortune and ain't too good.

berri

Any one seen the new Camry that's supposedto hit the New York auto show in a few weeks? Someone told me it looks a lot like the current gen Camry?

ateixeira

Run-flat tires are also spendy, but I'm not sure if the Venza gets those. The AWD Sienns does.

Then again, I hear complaints about run-flats from all brands (BMW, Honda, etc).

ateixeira

Camry, you sure?

Lexus should have the GS concept, hinting at the next Lexus GS.

I had not heard about an updated Camry, though.

fintail

Current one is 5 model years old now...new one's gotta be on the way

fintail

Hopefully the wheels aren't offshored to China, would be made of some kind of poison lead alloy and weigh 100 lbs apiece

I doubt you can get a decent set of tires for that thing installed for 3 figures anyway

obyone

Hopefully the wheels aren't offshored to China, would be made of some kind of poison lead alloy and weigh 100 lbs apiece

Funny you should say that. All the local tire resellers here have a huge inventory of aftermarket rims for sale. Not cheap either and if you look closely they are ALL made in China. I see the Walmart model is catching on.

busiris

Huge wheels force all sort of trade-offs - more rotational inertia so you actually accelerate slower, more unsprung weight so it does not handle as well, and more weight to stop so braking is adversely affected. Plus the stiff ride.

I'm not so sure.

Just quickly glancing at a few alloy wheels on tirerack.com, I found the difference between same width 16"and 18" wheels is about 5.5 lbs/wheel. It wouldn't be too difficult to lose that amount of weight in rubber in the lower profile tires between 16 and 18" wheels.

I'm not advocating the larger wheels, but just stating that the weight differential is probably negligable for the average vehicle application.

I realize this isn't any sort of scientific analysis, and I'm not inclined to do much more research on the topic....Just sayin' its probably not anything significant from a weight standpoint.

gagrice

If they are chrome plated it is probably against EPA regulations in the USA. So off shore is where they get made.

obyone

If they are chrome plated it is probably against EPA regulations in the USA. So off shore is where they get made.

Now it makes some sense as they all had the bling.

ateixeira

That's 22 lbs of total unsprung weight, and you're at 18", imagine what the 20" rim on the Venza weighs, that's the one I'm referring too.

OEM alloys are usually not light - they're made more for durability and appearance.

I bet the 20"s on a Venza are a good 12+ lbs heavier each than the 16" alloys on my Sienna.

There was an interesting article with a Civic that measured acceleration with all sorts of rim sizes, from 13" to 17" or so, and while the 14" didn't create a measurable slow down, the largest rims certainly did, and it was a BIG difference.

I'll try to Google it now...anyone else read that article?

ateixeira

No luck with Google, I searched for "Civic Wheel Comparison" and got about 17.8 trillion hits.

I've asked in a Civic wheel thread, I bet those guys will remember.

ateixeira

Toyota said that on Monday that it will resume limited production of the Prius and the Lexus HS250h and Lexus CT 200h hybrid vehicles. But the rest of its auto assembly will remain suspended indefinitely, extending the suspensions into a second full week

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110324/OEM01/110329933/1492- #ixzz1HcMOw2Ne

ateixeira

Toyota said Wednesday it expects parts shortages to interrupt its assembly lines in North America soon. In Japan, production remained suspended indefinitely at the bulk of Toyota’s assembly plants, even as the automaker resumed limited production of its hybrid vehicles.

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110324/OEM01/303249730/1492- #ixzz1HcMgjayW

gagrice

If you dig deep into the Tire Rack website you can find articles about wheel weights. There is a big difference in weight of alloy wheels. They list

Road Wheel Weights Can Affect Your Vehicle's Show...and Go

The heavyweight aluminum alloy wheels used in this test were selected because they were designed to emphasize a trendy fashion style without regard to overall weight. The heavyweight aluminum alloy wheels on our BMW test car weigh 27 pounds each (ten more pounds per wheel than the lightweight wheels).

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=108

ateixeira

Thanks...

They lost 1.7 mpg with a Plus One heavyweight wheel.

Imagine going from 16" to 20".

fintail

I am sure that metallurgy and chrome plating will be in awesome condition in 5 or 10 years too. The Walmart model as it is in 2011, penny wise and pound foolish.

I wonder what the 24"+ wheels some idiots like to put on SUVs and donks weigh...and how they impact performance and mileage.

gagrice

What amazes me is the amount of big SUVs with those silly 20+ inch wheels. My favorite is the ones with spinners. I get mesmerized sitting at a stop light watching them spin after the bling mobile stops.

ateixeira

Donks crack me up, and they usually put stickers to tell you the size of the rims they use: "26"!

anythngbutgm

I may be wrong, but I believe Shaq's shop was testing the limits of wheel design and the largest ever (I believe) came out of his shop as something like a 33" wheel :surprise: which more than likely fit under either an H2 or an Escalade.

I would imagine though, even with the ride height of those, the slighest hump would send one of those things up through the wheel well...

But the gangstas who drive those things probably have their routes mapped out to avoid them :P

lemko

Yeah, all pitted, cracked, and peeling and spewing unknown toxins into the environment. It's one heck of a price to pay for cheap bling.

ateixeira

There was a YouTube video of a Donk running a quarter mile and the whole rear axle popped off, it was hysterical.

For some reason I can't find it. Maybe the owner was too embarrassed and complained.

explorerx4

Those 3 scenarios prove the tires make more difference than the weight of the rims.
The highest and lowest weight wheels with the same tire don't show a large fuel mileage difference.

obyone

I've seen two of these personally in the last three weeks. Seems to be a popular thing to do.

Impala SS on 26

I wonder how an Avalon would look with these.

hoosiergrandad

"may be wrong, but I believe Shaq's shop was testing the limits of wheel design and the largest ever (I believe) came out of his shop as something like a 33" wheel which more than likely fit under either an H2 or an Escalade. "

I've got 32's, but that's on my combine (30.5-32)..............

gagrice

I've got 32's, but that's on my combine (30.5-32)

Now that would be a sight to see, a blinged out combine. By the way I love your handle. You have to be from Indiana.

fintail

Can a FWD donk really work? I'd think it would absolutely pulverize some suspension components in no time.

Here's a wagon wheel style Fleetwood I saw in Atlanta a couple weeks ago (no, I wasn't driving)

gagrice

I think they must be trying to get ground clearance to avoid Potholes. :sick: Though they do look like they would be better suited to a team of Belgians and a seat on top.

hoosiergrandad

"Now that would be a sight to see, a blinged out combine."

No bling.....does have green paint and yellow wheels....gets about 3 gpm (gallons per mile) when working. Think there are several unconfessed Indianians lurking here.

busiris

That's my opinion as well. Weight does matter, of course, but on a car with 200+ HP, a 3 or 4 additional pounds per wheel weight is probably negligible.

However, the outside tire circumference could have a sizeable impact. With consistent gearing, it takes more energy to turn a wheel 24" in diameter than a 12" one...or a 22" one.

So, if one goes with larger wheels, yet at the same time uses lower-profile tires to keep the same outside tire diameter, overall it should have a minor impact on mileage and performance (think acceleration/braking, not cornering/handling)... generally speaking.

fintail

Once they hit a certain point, they resemble a conestoga wagon to me.

Lucky for Toyota's image, they don't make any recipients of such personalization. It is very much a GM thing, others far behind.

The roads in Atlanta were actually excellent compared to here - at least on the highway. I'd dare say city streets were even worse.