Toyota on the mend?

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Toy/Lex took 9 categories:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/26/acura-honda-toyota-dominate-alg-residual-valu- e-awards/

    Wonder if Hyundai will drop next year after the bogus mpg claims?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    edited November 2012
    "Toyota Motor Corp. appears poised to regain its position as the world's largest automaker, a remarkable turnaround after years of safety recalls, huge federal fines and the Japanese earthquake last year.

    Toyota is likely to sell 9.7 million vehicles this year, surpassing second-place General Motors Co. by more than 1 million vehicles and setting a record for annual auto sales. That's generating huge profits, with earnings tripling in the latest quarter to $3.2 billion and sales surging almost 20 percent compared with a year earlier."

    Toyota on track to become world's bestselling automaker again (Detroit News)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    VW's growth outside it's home market will be offset by very weak European sales.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    ...have Toyota sales up 17% for November.

    People must think the grille has the shape of a pretty woman (hourglass). ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases/toyota+lexus+scion+sales+november+2012.htm

    Toyota and Lexus both up 17%.

    Turn off your TVs, "we will close out 2012 with a December to Remember.” :D

    Toyota sold more hybrids that Mazda sold cars. Wow.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said it intensified a probe opened in May 2010 to an engineering analysis after receiving 52 complaints

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20121214/OEM11/312149796#ixzz2F45EJZaj

    I called it. Ford's complaint rate was double Toyota's before Officer Saylor's crash. Why single out the import brand?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    edited December 2012
    were more than Silverado sales this year, an unprecedented event. That makes it the second-best selling model sold in the United States, after only the perennial winner, the Ford F-150. It is far and away the best-selling car (not truck) sold.

    Camry is also the model most affected (largest numbers) by the unintended acceleration recall back then.

    So in the end that was a non-event in terms of sales.

    I'm more interested in the fact that CR has pointed out that C-Max hybrid real-world fuel economy is way off the EPA numbers, much more so than most other models they have tested. This, even as I watch a barrage of TV ads from Ford comparing C-Max to Prius V, in which the Prius gets crumpled up like waste paper because of the supposedly much better fuel economy of the C-Max.

    I wonder how Prius V does in CR's fuel economy testing...

    Oh yeah, and I got post 16,000. ;-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In real world tests, so far, Prius V is actually very slightly better. C-Max could improve as more of them break in, let's see.

    The F "series" of pickups is really a whole bunch of platforms. Some say the ES is a fancy Camry, the Avalon is a LWB Camry, the Venza is a Camry wagon, etc.

    Add all those up and I wonder which really sells more. I think at a minimum they should count HD pickup sales separately.

    Does any one in the whole world think this:

    image

    Is the same vehicle as this?

    image

    :confuse:

    URLs if you can't see the images:

    http://www.trans-west.com/images/ford/f650-gallery/f650-white-bg.jpg

    http://trialx.com/curetalk/wp-content/blogs.dir/7/files/2011/06/cars/2010_Ford_F- 150_Regular_Cab-1.jpg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587

    Toyota Motor Corp. has been ordered to pay a record fine of $17.35 million for failing to report a safety defect to the U.S. government in a timely manner


    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20121218/OEM11/121219885#ixzz2FQa9OZ4R

    Wonder if they'll fine Ford, once that's all sorted out? Probably not.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 25,965
    >That recall did not include the RX350 or RX450h. At the time NHTSA had not received any complaints about sticky pedals in those two models, but reports filtered in afterwards.

    From the link:
    "One such report, filed on May 18, 2011, described an incident where a 2010 model RX350 suddenly accelerated to above 60 mph while its passengers were waiting for a security gate to open. The vehicle reportedly crashed through a pair of gates and went airborne over a street before coming to rest against the side of building.
    "One woman died and two people were injured in the crash, according to the report, dated May 18, 2011. It is the only one of the 28 complaints in NHTSA's database that led to a death or an injury."

    I realize that the SUA events were explained away as old age, floor mats, sticking accelerator pedals. But this one doesn't fit that mold because they were sitting still waiting. The driver wouldn't have suddenly hit the accelerator pedal thinking it were the brake pedal because their foot was already on the brake while waiting. IT doesn't fit the sticky pedal because they didn't move the pedal down away from idle for the pedal to stick. And the whiskers have been disproved, supposedly, by some study of 2 exemplars.

    In among the other explained examples of SUA, there seem to have been some idiopathic events that still don't fit the explanations.

    Any ideas on what happened here?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's an RX, ask fintail how well they know how to drive. :D
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 25,965
    > RX, ask fintail how well they know how to drive.

    I hear your point on that! The article doesn't mention trophy wife or lack of knowledge on driving in the USA as a factor... grin :)

    It was a serious question on my part--note no dawgging on the various problems stipulated to already. I am curious if there is a real explanation for this and the few that don't fall into the other causes: old age, sticking pedal after depression, floor mats catching and holding pedals in open positions?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,042
    You beat me to it. Probably a safe bet to wager that it was misapplication followed by panic. Not a vehicle that attracts the most "with it" drivers.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    RX drivers are the most skilled driving enthusiasts on the road. They drive right at the speed limit, never break laws, never hold up traffic, never text or get distracted, don't tailgate, and always stay in their lanes.

    I'll stop now before I get struck by lightning. BWAHAHAHA!

    But seriously, no more info than that?

    Wonder if that RX has start/stop? The driver may have thought the car was off, and let of the brakes, then panicked when it re-started and moved.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,042
    Do those have start/stop? Would that only be on the hybrid? I suppose that could upset some drivers.

    Funny, my A8 rental had that feature, and it wasn't explained to me when I got the car, nor was there anything in the car explaining its presence. First time it engaged, I knew what it was without thinking. Probably not the reaction to be had by the average local driver here, though.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No idea, haven't driven one in a decade and doubt I will.

    Searched on the NHTSA site and found the report, but there isn't any useful information they didn't already mention. Lady who died was a grandmother but she was a passenger, the report said.

    61 complaints for the 2010 model, which isn't out of the ordinary given they sell so many. 63 for the same year Ford Flex, just for reference.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,042
    That last stat tells a lot, IMO,
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You mean the 61 complaints? That's complaints in all categories, not just SUA.

    Keep in mind there are 100,000 or so of those on the road.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,042
    I mean that the Lexus complaints were similar to Ford. Lots of human error likely for both.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    edited December 2012
    "Federal law requires all auto manufacturers to notify NHTSA within five business days of discovering a safety defect and to promptly issue a recall.

    "We agreed to this settlement in order to avoid a time-consuming dispute and to focus fully on our shared commitment with NHTSA to keep drivers safe," said Ray Tanguay, chief quality officer of Toyota North America.

    Regulators are making a statement that automakers need to recall cars even if they are still investigating an issue and determining the proper repair, Anwyl said. Generally, car companies prefer to announce a recall and a fix at the same time.

    Safety regulators fine Toyota for delaying SUV recall (LA Times)

    Anwyl (as in Jeremy Anwyl, vice chairman of Edmunds) also said $17 million is just a speed bump to Toyota.

    Question is, how and when do you decide that something is recall worthy?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,042
    Probably something for lawyers to determine. If fines will be less than the cost of fixing and any subsequent legal action...fines it will be.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    car companies prefer to announce a recall and a fix at the same time

    Look at the Ford 1.6l EcoBoost recall.

    They told people to park their cars and provided loaners while they looked for a fix. So the early adopters, generally your biggest fans, were driving around in rentals making payments on their new Fusions and Escapes.

    That was a PR disaster. It's no wonder companies drag their feet.

    In this case it was for engine fires so of course it's better not to take chances. When you have SUA complaint rates that are similar to competitors, it makes no sense to tell everyone to park their cars.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    ...after a long, voluntary hiatus on these forums.

    Looks like not much has changed, same people, same arguments. Toyota hasn't gone away as the doomsayers predicted after the big SUA brouhaha of 3 years ago (is it really that long)? Yes, it is -- that's when Tiger Woods was exposed doing some naughty things! Unlike Toyota, HE hasn't regained his composure!

    I still have my 2 Camrys, the 2004 LE now with 111,000 miles and the 2005 XLE with nearly 65,000 miles -- still going strong, still looking great.

    Too bad about Toyota's poor showing in the IIHS crash test release today; my older Camrys can't be much better. But just like all manufacturers with poor results in the past, they'll find a way to improve their cars; you can bet on that. :D
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,711
    Too bad about Toyota's poor showing in the IIHS crash test release today; my older Camrys can't be much better. But just like all manufacturers with poor results in the past, they'll find a way to improve their cars; you can bet on that.

    Yep, but I believe it is more of building a car to pass that specific test more than anything else. Cars are ALL very safe compared to even 10 years ago. At least it gave the Toyota hate group something to enjoy. :sick:
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    have to say that Toyota is mostly all mended up now. And they have been for months and months and months.

    For instance, have you seen the new Scion FR-S, for example? Great new car from Scion/Toyota. I wouldn't hesitate for a second ta buy one of those pups. If I was made of cash, that is. :shades:

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Well, the IIHS tries to design its tests to improve cars' real-world safety, and there's now enough crash evidence after 17 years of the frontal offset test and 10 years of the side impact test to show that cars that perform well in the tests also are better in protecting real people in crashes.

    Yes, there are some manufacturers that take shortcuts to pass the tests; in other words, dubious "improvements" are made that would seem to offer little protection to people sized or seated differently than the test dummies.

    I absolutely agree however that today's cars are the safest yet, and they'll continue to get even better. This has to be a major factor in the dramatic decrease in deaths on US highways over the last several years.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    edited December 2012
    Absolutely all mended up, despite the best efforts of the haters over the last several years to denigrate Toyota so badly. It's partly why I left these forums, to get away from the silly arguments and to have more fun on other sites. It's pretty bad when a Toyota owner was one of their biggest detractors! :confuse:

    BTW, is anyone STILL defending that idiot Sykes guy who claimed his Prius had an SUA incident in CA back at the height of the Congressional/media circus?

    Oh yeah, I test drove the Scion FR-S, and it's a very nice car. I sampled the automatic, but I'd love to have the 6-speed, as the manual transmission seems very much now to have a bleak future. My wife won't approve however -- too expensive and not very practical if we wanted to carry any family!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    This place is a love fest compared to the GM News board. :shades:

    Toyota took a hit in the press a couple of days ago over dragging their feet over reporting recalls, not to mention the crash test business. Their stock is up like $4 this week.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The new IIHS test is pretty brutal, those mainstream cars actually did better than the luxury cars they tested previously.

    I think, to some extent, cars are designed to do well on specific tests.

    Look at the new Honda Accord. Honda was aware of the new tests so this update reflects it (one of only 2 cars to score "Good").

    Funny thing was when it launched there was a big debate about why it didn't shave off as much weight as competitors have been, including the Camry, but now we know why. I read it was some thing with the bumper structure in the front end.

    Now nobody will complain about no weight loss.

    So far very few cars scored Good - Honda Accord, Suzuki Kizashi, Acura TL, Volvo S60.

    That's it!
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    That's funny about the GM board -- I'm not going over there!
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Also even for the Accord, only the 4-door scored a Good; the coupe was Acceptable.

    My understanding is that Honda tied the ends of the front bumper bars into the upper structural rails that extend up from the bumpers to the tops of the fenders and back to the firewall. These upper rails are also more robust than those in most other cars.

    I'm sure as engineers redesign cars in the future with this new test in mind, that they'll find ways to strengthen cars in a similar manner but with a smaller weight penalty.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Sometimes I wonder if Toyota is getting worse, or if the competition is just getting better?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    The competition is definitely tough. I think Honda has the edge, if not the production numbers, over their neighbors at the moment.

    Ask me again next week when a big Honda recall hits, lol.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Neither, it's the tests that are much, MUCH harder now.

    Keep in mind BMW, Audi, even Mercedes failed to score Good.

    I don't think any reasonable person would call the C-class unsafe.
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaMember Posts: 1,222
    Toyota Motor Corp. agreed to pay about $1.1 billion to install new safety equipment and reimburse owners of up to 16 million cars to settle a U.S. class-action suit stemming from 2009-10 recalls related to complaints of unintended acceleration in its vehicles.

    The settlement, filed in a federal court in California on Wednesday, will result in Toyota taking a $1.1 billion pretax charge this quarter, a person familiar with the matter said. The settlement is one of the largest in a lawsuit involving the automotive industry, said Steve W. Berman, one of the lead plaintiff lawyers.

    Wall St. Journal

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  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    edited December 2012
    Oh yeah, I test drove the Scion FR-S, and it's a very nice car. I sampled the automatic, but I'd love to have the 6-speed, as the manual transmission seems very much now to have a bleak future. My wife won't approve however -- too expensive and not very practical if we wanted to carry any family!

    Yep, and we already have a sporty sedan in the 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS, too. No need for anything new.

    I still wonder what the problem was, was it all the wrong size of mat under the accelerator pedal of the Lexus sedan in 2009 that went out of control, the one thing that seemed to cause all of this Toyota hating? Is there anything new regarding that story, just 4 unfortunate souls that are gone and the survivors grieving?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Saylor family got a small settlement from Toyota.

    The class action settlement was 1000 times bigger and you just know the lawyers will get all of it. Owners will probably get a $100 coupon if they buy another Toyota (that's what Honda did for the Civic class action, remember?).

    I'm not sure what happened with Bob Barker Baker Lexus, though. The family was still suing the dealer that put the wrong mat in the loaner car, and Toyota's settlement did not resolve that. If anything they had more liability than Toyota did.

    The court cases are more about financial liability, not justice.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    "The court cases may be as much about greed and opportunism than liability."

    Probably true, and opportunism and greed may rank right up there too.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    $60 for each plaintiff and the lawyers get $200,000,000.00.

    Gotta laugh.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Toyota shares up 2.6% because the settlement was smaller than expected.

    Lawyers and stockholders stay rich.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Toyota stock may have risen more due to the fact that the settlement removed an uncertainty, than to the amount of the settlement. Stocks frequently rise when an uncertainty is resolved. This sometimes occurs even when the settlement is greater than expected. Of course, some of the 2.6% rise may have indeed resulted from a lighter than expected penalty.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    $60 would not even fill up a tank of gas.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited December 2012
    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/05/best-new-car-values/index.htm

    Ironically the new GS does not! Price is a big factor of course.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,042
    I'd say the GS hybrid is a particularly bad value, especially when loaded - it's right up there with the Germans now. Dangerous game.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They look at ownership costs, so I think it should be by class. Hard for any luxury car to make a list like that.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,042
    Ownership costs are a funny thing, should maybe be taken relative to the income of the owner. It might cost 10x as much to run a Bentley vs an Accent, but when the owner makes 20x more, is it such a big deal?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited December 2012
    Good point, it probably represents a smaller percentage of the owner's income, I bet.

    You might spend half your income on a Versa, but a Bentley is chump change to the owner.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 12,691
    Absolutely amazed by the improvements over at Audi as well. Where is Andres3? His A3 may not be an anomaly after all.

    Been saying Audi's on an uphill swing in quality since about the year 2000. The hill is pretty steep too. People are just slow on the uptake, but I spoke with my wallet early in 2006, and am extremely happy I did.

    The exact same car would be at least 10-15% more today in cost than when I purchased in 2006.

    I'm nearing 100K miles.... happy happy happy.

    It's a shame that VW is clearly not doing all the same QC and QA work that Audi is though.

    Still, I'd trust a VW before any of the Big 3.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 12,691
    Is it safe to say that the public has voted with their wallets that SUA is a non-issue?
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
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