Toyota on the mend?

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    VW is clearly not doing all the same QC and QA work that Audi is

    Passat moved away from an Audi platform, didn't it?

    They made them bigger and cheaper, i.e. what America buys. Can't blame them, really.

    VW's cars are not as good, yet they sell more of them.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes, and it didn't harm Toyota the way it harmed Audi, but Audi was vulnerable back then.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 12,694
    VW's cars are not as good, yet they sell more of them.

    Well, that's cause they are cheaper... and American's like cheap.

    I wish more Americans bought for the longer term, more on value than low price.

    Also, VW dealers, from what I've heard, may have something to do with the large gaps between Audi and VW.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 12,694
    Well, 60 Minutes never did a big story on Toyota's flying through residential house walls, did they? Did 60 Minutes ever put that scam artist (Sykes Sikes??) on TV?
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    A used Phaeton can be a great value...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sikes had his 15 minutes (seconds?) of fame and vanished. I don't think even the sensationalist media thought there was any merit in his story. I never saw a follow-up report.

    If anyone saw one, please share.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited January 2013
    LLN is reporting Toyota Sales are up 27% with a total of 2,082,504 vehicles sold which puts them 3rd behind Ford and Gov. Motors...

    2012 Sales

    Amazing, just two years ago, the media was saying how total US Auto sales were going to remain at the 10-11 million mark for many years...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Great year for them, though the gains are inflated due to the squeeze in supply last year.

    A some point people had to replace all those aging cars, though!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Gorgeous from the waist up.

    I do not like the lights, head or tail end.

    Inside looks great.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,048
    Horrendous face, hilarious taillights, side profile is decent, interior looks excellent.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I wonder how people who might actually buy one like it? :D
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Lexus hires Honda stylists - just kidding!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,048
    edited January 2013
    Seeing as the people who buy it today often don't care about design or driving, does it really matter? Some will buy it no matter how it looks, just for the badge, same with all higher lines. Buying something and liking it doesn't really mean it is good design - and even you, the perpetual devil's advocate said the front and rear aren't so hot.

    Hell, people buy ZDX, CrossCabrios, X6s and 5er GTs, etc.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,048
    I think Lexus has channeled the spirit of Virgil Exner.

    Acura has the beak, Lexus has the Predator maw/61 Plymouth grille. Something conservative like the new Accord is an exercise in elegance compared to either.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited January 2013
    That's it, you nailed it. I knew I'd seen that Lexus grille before, but couldn't remember where. The '61 Plymouth. We all know what a hit that was, but at least it was original.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    people buy ZDX

    Very, very few.

    Yet the X6 sells well. There's no accounting for bad taste.

    The old IS had that bulky area under the C-pillar, pointy headlights, and sort of an anonymous look overall.

    This is definitely bolder. At least people will react to it, good or bad, but they'll get off the fence. The interior is where the biggest improvements went. I think it'll sell pretty well.

    To be honest I'm more interested to hear what power trains they'll stuff in it, especially the IS-F.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,048
    edited January 2013
    I suppose a person spends more time looking at the inside of their car than the outside. Kind of like the GS, nice inside while a combination of bland, inoffensive, and weird outside. The 1961 Plymouth lineup was bold too - but it didn't have the reliability/masked badge snob ideal going for it.

    I see the same bulk under the C-pillar in the new one - due to the upkick in the window/belt line that has become a Lexus theme - adds visual interest for some I guess. Actually now that I look at the details more, new IS has too many lines going upward at rear, trying to make it look jaunty I guess.

    IS-F seems to sell about like the ZDX. Tough to compete with C63 and M3 in that niche.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The upkick is there but the sheetmetal below is doesn't look bulky like the old one did. It made the car look heavy and big, even though it was quite small.

    Neither of us is the target market, so what matters are what existing and prospective Lexus buyers think. I bet 90% of the people who are critical are not shopping for a Lexus anyway.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,048
    The upkick angle is lower, but there's still a space there. Maybe it is to make the car look bulkier, cut off some light inside - the typical automatic IS250 driver probably equates that with safety.

    Neither of us are running to buy one, but that didn't stop you from initially being critical either ;) - only seems to be a problem when there is more to say. Really, that "matters" bit is only in the context of Toyolex profits - bad or ugly design can still sell. We all have to see them on the road, so any opinions "matter", even those who think it is a masterpiece of design (ha). Devils advocate doesn't need to be played everywhere.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not just them - I've noticed green houses getting smaller and smaller with almost every new model. Gotta look "chopped" to be cool, I guess.

    I find it annoying. What happened to actually being able to see out of a car?

    No need, we'll just add extra cost bird's eye view to compensate for a designed-in visibility deficiency. :sick:

    //end rant

    Having said that, the green house here looks airy and I like that about it. The rear door handle, door seam, and gas filler neck break up the sheet metal so it no longer looks chubby back there.

    The lights are trying too hard, front and rear.

    I'd say the same thing about a lot of cars. The new E AMG's face is also just too "busy":

    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/10/mercedes-benz-e63-amg-gains-4matic-grip-still- -barking-mad/

    There is a light within a light within a light, and the outer grille looks like a dog's cheeks blowing in the wind.

    AMGs were subtle, what happened?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,048
    Looked chopped, but no shorter - just taller beltlines. Try driving a modern car with your elbow out the window. I suspect safety junk plays the bigger role. The cameras can fill 2 roles then - make up for visibility defects, and provide a little safety too.

    I don't like the coupe grille on upright MB sedans with its lack of hood ornament, and those headlights are really busy. But, at least it isn't Predator's mouth :shades:

    AMG hasn't been subtle for about a decade now. Money likes to be brash, and IIRC, AMG sells several hundred percent more cars than it did at the beginning of the century. M/RS/F aren't really subtle either. The overpaid middle aged wannabe racers and spoiled trust funders who buy them new want to be seen. Depreciation is still high, anyway.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Even my Miata suffers from a higher beltline. Can't rest the arm on the door as with the NA model.

    Ironically I think the more "styled" CLS AMG gets a prettier mug:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/10/mercedes-benz-cls63-amg-gets-same-awd-power-b- oost-as-new-e63-mo/

    Still more jewelry than I'd wear but the design is cleaner.

    I'm not the target buyer for either, anyway, so I doubt they care!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,048
    edited January 2013
    I can rest my arm out the door of both of my cars, but in new cars I've experienced, it's a lot harder. Too bad. I bet it is really impossible in the IS, current and new.

    CLS is appropriate for the coupe grille, and has cleaner lights. Maybe that will change though, as the design predates the new E by some time.

    The suits might not care, but you have to see them on the streets, so you care :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let me know when they invent Juke-blocking goggles. :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,048
    I don't mind the Juke so much, it exists to be weird and ugly, doesn't pretend to be elegant or cool. It's false pretenses that annoy me.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/10/lexus-hints-at-possible-is-sportcross-comebac- k-w-poll/

    Over 70% voted yes.

    I bet it even looks better, since the taillights are one of the sedan's oddest features.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,048
    edited January 2013
    Could be a winner, esp if it dumps those goofy lights. I'd actually consider one, especially as it has little like it on the road. On another site, I saw a photoshop that made it look like a twin brother to the CT. I hope they use a different design language than the reverse angled C-pillar.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    Neither of us is the target market, so what matters are what existing and prospective Lexus buyers think.

    On that note, if anyone lands here via a net search and has purchased an IS, let us know:

    A reporter would like to speak to a woman who is a new Lexus IS owner. If you fit the description, please send your daytime contact to [email protected] no later than 3 p.m. PT/6 p.m. ET, Friday, January 11, 2013.
  • joeyrabjoeyrab Member Posts: 65
    Toyota took the top 3 spots in 3 different catagories in the year end Consumer Reports auto issue.
    That includes Toyota, Scion, and Lexus. Some people may not like the way they look, but they still make the most solid cars.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    I voted yes. :-)

    It would be even better if they offered it with a stick this time.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree but that's doubtful. :(
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    This is Toyota. That's not doubtful, that's completely outside the realm of possibility. :-(

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Prius named 'greenest' car, Ford F-350 'meanest'

    Honda Fit EV #2. I would have thought an EV would have taken this. Heck burns no fuel, has no emissions...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Prius C ... headline could be more specific.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    World’s Largest Automaker: Dethroned GM Concedes That TTAC Was Right

    Looks like VW is going for #2 and could very well make it in 2013...

    I would also be willing to wager that Toyota will go forth in the top position without letting cost cutting and QC fall apart again. Surely, they must have learned their lessons when they also took the top spot in recalls from GM for the past 3 years...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    edited January 2013
    A reporter is looking for a subcompact car owner or shopper to weigh in on what kind of impact a sleeker design, like the "Furia" concept released in Detroit, would have on their purchase decision. If you own or are looking for a subcompact car, and think a sleeker design would impact which car you buy, please send your daytime contact info to [email protected] no later than Monday, January 21, 2013 at 4 p.m. PT/7 p.m. ET.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Anyone else think it look like the original Gen I Prius?

    Esp the C-pillar.

    Take away the wild paint job and that's what I see.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,048
    I just see another car for people who hate cars and driving, this one with some bric-a-brac to fake the unwashed into believing it is sporty or cool :shades:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    Never would have guessed, but if you paint it white, you're spot on.

    image
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The redesigned, third-generation Tundra is expected to go on sale this spring and will become the third revamped big pickup planned by automakers for the 2014 model year.

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20130124/OEM04/130129942#ixzz2J0ReZMWo

    The last one suffered some cost cutting, let's see if they re-content this one. Their redesigns have been hit or miss.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The companies will embark on a feasibility study to define a joint platform concept for a mid-sized sports vehicle. They aim to complete the study by the end of 2013

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20130124/COPY01/301249834#ixzz2J0SLdRVv

    With the FT a bit hit, why not use the WRX platform?

    I don't think Toyota has used a longitudinal layout since....what, the Supra?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/28/toyota-recalls-slew-of-models-for-possible-ai- rbag-calibration-de/

    Odd, happened when some port installed options were added, it seems.

    These were vehicles installed with accessories like leather seat covers and headrest DVD systems by Southeast Toyota Distributors
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    edited January 2013
    I thought I had misheard the radio story earlier when you posted about the "slew of recalls".

    This is a slew:

    Toyota recalls 1.3 million vehicles for air bags, wipers (Detroit News)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    WTOP radio just announced that this morning.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 25,966
    edited January 2013
    From the article:
    "
    t's the fourth time since 2010 that Toyota has paid the maximum allowable fine for delaying recalls. In 2010, Toyota paid $48.8 million in civil penalties for failing to recall millions of vehicles, in three separate campaigns, in a timely manner. Toyota said it will restructure its organization to consolidate responsibility for quality assurance and review of safety-related issues in the United States. It did not admit any wrongdoing."

    From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130130/AUTO0104/301300365#ixzz2JTA0JPCh

    Is it working?

    image

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    using the same chip that was used in Chrysler Jeep Liberty SUVs that were under investigation

    ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2013
    Kemet (an American company specializing in capacitor products) supplies the sub-capacitors to TRW Automotive (based in Michigan).

    Funny how The Detroit News left that out. What happened to balanced reporting? Maybe because TRW is based in their home state?

    CTS, Dana, Kemet/TRW...I see a pattern here. :D
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