Toyota on the mend?



  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There is a petition here at work to remove speed bumps in the garage. Behind it are a 911 owner, a Cooper JCW owner, a Maserati coupe owner, and me (MX5).

    In the Forester you hardly even feel it. There are benefits.

    It's easy to get any one with a remotely sporty car to sign because they all feel every bump.

    If you're lowered you almost have to come to a full stop.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,770
    Are they using parking barriers for speed bumps or something? I've seen that before. Feeling every bump is one reason I like my new car - it's such a mellow ride, but not numb.

    I don't need a faux-butch CUV for speed bumps.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    A little lower, but almost.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited March 2013
    You raise an excellent point regarding road clearance and suspension travel. I wish most sedans had an extra inch or so of clearance. There were times when that would have permitted me to get out of my neighborhood, because it was the snow plow effect rather than the tire traction that prevented my car from moving. That was with FWD. For many, including me, FWD and all seasons are sufficient in winter, but I'd welcome more clearance. I'd accept the tradeoffs associated with more clearance. I could buy a crossover, of course, but up to now, at least, I've resisted because sedans and coupes appeal to me more.

    My Audi has Quattro, but average clearance. In fact, it may be a little lower than average since it has sport suspension. My comments regarding road clearance only applies to sedans, not coupes, convertibles and sports cars.

    A little extra suspension travel would also be nice, but it's not a must have for me.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That has been the Outback's formula for success - a little extra clearance, but still a wagon.

    Next door neighbor had an allroad quattro. I don't think the Audi had all that much clearance, as he was always asking me to get gas for his snow blower in the bigger storms. He replaced it with an Accord Crosstour, and his wife has a W211 E350, but not a 4Matic.

    fin will know this - don't 4Matics come with a higher suspension? I think that's common, they figure buyers are in the snow belt.

    Toyota doesn't offer AWD for the Camry, of course I'm sure they'd be happy to sell you a Highlander, or RAV4, or 4Runner, or FJ. All those probably have higher profit margins anyway.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2013
    It just kills me that there's no clearance in the wheel wells of my Outback. The ice build up was grinding away a couple of days ago. Just shoveled out a 8'x6' patch of drift in front of my garage doors. It was around 3' deep; would have been fun seeing if the Subaru could have blasted out through it this morning.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The tires have a bigger diameter, so while they lift it a bit, the tires fill up the wheel wells more than on the Legacy. Useless trivia - you can fit a full sized spare in a Legacy, but not in an Outback. I actually bought one for the wife's old 2002 Legacy.

    Try some WD40 strategically sprayed in the wheel wells right before it snows. Clean wheels also help, especially if you wax painted wheels.

    Here's my question - how do you prevent ice build-up on a Tweel?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    lol, you know me better than that. Wax my wheels? I could spray some stuff in there I suppose.

    One thing about a Tweel, you could take some cord and make your own tire chains.

    (Did I mention it's snowing and blowing 30 mph here?).
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited March 2013
    I suppose my wishes are hard to satisfy, but the Outback has more clearance than I'd need for 99.9 percent of the winter weather in our area (I think you and I are practically neighbors). If I lived in the snowbelt one of my vehicles would be a crossover, but for the MD suburbs of DC I prefer a car car, at least for now. I'd even take RWD with winter tires, if I could get it with an extra inch of ground clearance.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sure seems that way lately. A couple of winter snow with no real snow. We only get sleet and freezing rain!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Highlander: ota-highlander.html

    I prefer the big Santa Fe over this, but this is nicer than the Pathfinder's femme styling.

    I wonder if that 3rd row is still too small. Watch the video, his legs are splayed up, the cushion's too low.

    Navi screen looks bigger and is set close to the driver, I like that.

    No MPG claims yet.

    Interior looks improved.

    Arrives next year? I hope they mean next model year.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,770
    Other than that weird face, it's better looking than the old/current one, which looks bloated and dumpy.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The current one's facelift was a bit odd, they made the lights bulge out, front and rear. This is more cohesive, but not exactly pretty.

    I'm their target market, with 2 kids and a car pool, and I'd want a bigger 3rd row, so that's a miss.

    Then again both my kids are tall. My daughter couldn't fit in the 2nd row of an X1!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,770
    "Not exactly pretty" - isn't that the name of the current Toyolex design language? :shades:

    The X1 seems to be aimed at childless young couples where the woman wears the pants ...and from what I can see, some new resident groups seem to love them too.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Arrives next year? I hope they mean next model year.

    I'm pretty sure I read something somewhere (now that's specific memory isn't it!) that led me to believe at least, that it isn't coming to market until January. If that's the case, why not label it a 2015? Since the current Highlander undercuts much of it's competition in price, they seem to be selling quite well right now.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    "Not exactly pretty" - isn't that the name of the current Toyolex design language?

    I like that Toyolex monicker. What are you calling Honda design: Hondork?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,770
    Honda is "meh". Nisfiniti is "uugh".

    I think Toyolex and Nisfiniti have both channeled the spirit of Virgil Exner ca. 1961.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited April 2013
    Why is it you only target the Asian brands?

    By your own admission you got an E-class as soon as you saw its new mug.

    The 3 GT is almost as ugly as the 5 GT and X6.

    Panamera is still the ugliest sedan on the planet, though.

    VWs aren't ugly but they're so boring by comparison Toyotas are downright exciting. Jetta, Golf, Passat, zzZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

    This isn't exactly an era of beautiful designs. Exceptions? Audi and Kia.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,770
    edited April 2013
    It's all relative. There's a lot of ugly out there, but some is uglier than others.

    I'd take the weird flared nostril E over the alien maw Toyolex equivalent or the chipmunk cheek strangely renamed Infinitis.

    Camry, Corolla, Venza, zzzz.

    Kia can be handsome in a way, but beautiful? Surely you jest. Few modern cars are "beautiful", and none of them are Korean. Put down the Kool-Aid.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I liked the W211, the W212 isn't as cohesive. The old one had the Avalon-style split lights I never liked and the new face made it worse - it just joined the current fad of stylized lights.

    R-class never quite looked right and the GLK is too bolt upright. The rest of the lineup looks better, to be fair.

    Scion FR-S is good looking, and supposedly Toyota was responsible for that.

    Sienna is by far the best looking van, all things being relative, as you say.

    I didn't mean to say Kias are beautiful, just that they're not ugly, like so many new designs are. Consistently so, they all look OK or better.

    As for mainsteam, Civic > Jetta, Accord > Passat, though Honda hit some home runs in the ugly dept lately (Crosstour, Odyssey). Their volume models are OK now. Plus, Tiguan and Routan aren't exactly handsome.

    Most brands have their hits and misses. Audi and Kia just don't have any misses.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587

    Shows the wider back seat, still low to the ground, though.

    Would look a lot better with a body color grills, that's too much chrome for me.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,770
    The lights are an angular version of the quad lights MB has used on the E since 1995. The car has many heritage themed details, like the instrument cluster, HVAC, door panel details, rear fender accent line, etc. I agree the new face is worse, nearly 20 years of quad light history, (or closer to 40 if we count the W123), and then randomly abandon it. Dumb.

    FR-S is nice. Avalon is OK from the side and back. Camrolla both look old. Sienna is inoffensive. I think the Passat is handsome if dull, but it isn't ugly. I like the new Accord too.

    I think Audis look nice, but kind of dull too - models are just size variants apart from the A7 and coupes.

    Kia Forte is pretty blandiose. Optima is fairly sharp, Soul might be a better looking Scion, Rio doesn't offend, Sedona is 9700 years old.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The face lift E puts round themed lights on a square themed body.

    Plus it seems every new car has LED disease, the Lexus IS being a good example of (way) overdone lights. It's their least attractive car.

    I actually think the ES and (gulp) RX look fine with the new front end theme. A peek at sales and consumers sure do agree.

    Avalon has that huge mouth, they turned the Fusion's grille upside down. Some minor tweaks and it would look better.

    My AWD bias shows, I guess I like quattro. Gimme an S5 cabrio. The kids actually fit in that back seat. Or any Avant.

    As for Kia...

    Rio 5 door is the best looking in the A segment.

    Forte is among the better ones in the B segment.

    Soul is the nicest in the Box class.

    Optima is arguably the best looking sedan in the C segment.

    The Sportage looks pretty cool, too, even if you can't see out of the darn thing.

    That's not a bad lineup if you think about it.

    I think they stopped making the Sedona, but I'm sure there are unsold ones at dealers.

    Considering how many ugly cars are out there nowadays, I'm impressed when an automaker doesn't have any failing grades.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,770
    The E facelift is puzzling, seeing as the W212 will only be around for a couple more years. Seems like a lot of money to spend, but the competition is fierce. Blowout pricing again in a couple years when the W212 replacement is coming.

    ES is probably most attractive Lexus right now. I saw someone call the blackout grille on the upcoming IS a "Hitler stache", I had a big laugh from that. Too much styling in the new one, while the old one is really old and dull. Extremes. The average RX buyer would probably buy it if it resembled an AMC Matador coupe. All about the badge and name.

    If you want an Avant, hope you want to live in Europe or a second world corruption hole - all you'll get is the faux butch Allroad.

    Sedona is still on the website, that's current to me. Must be a pile of them sitting somewhere. I don't know if I can call a mommymobile CUV "cool", but the Optima looks nice if properly equipped, and I somehow want to almost like the Soul - although if I want a Korean commuter box, it's Elantra GT.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I liked it better when the IS and ES overlapped in price, and one targeted sporty while the other targeted luxury. That would give the IS design team more freedom.

    The original IS handled better than the outgoing one (base, not -F).

    Allroad still looks good. Audi sure can do wagons.

    I'm surprised the Sedona is still there. I saw a newer van in Grand Cayman, though it was a Hyundai. Looked about the same size, boxier, but seemed more like a competitor to the new Ford vans.

    Sedona looks like a super model sitting next to an Odyssey, anyway.

    Optima and Elantra GT both offer a nice panoramic moonroof, too.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,770
    Maybe I am getting old, but looking at IS or ES, I would actually pick the latter - based on looks alone, ergonomics are probably better too (IS is tight inside). Will be interesting to see how the new IS drives, as its looks are nothing to cherish. Nicest thing I can say about the outside is that the headlights finally aren't disproportionately large.

    Hyundai does have larger vans for other markets, I think I might have spotted one in Europe, kind of commercial looking things - but there, the bigger the vehicle, the less likely it is to be Asian.

    Sedona is dumpy, Odyssey is weird. Pick your poison. Sienna is just zzz, which might beat either. Thank the W211 for pano, it really got the ball rolling.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I like the GS more and was hoping the IS would be a smaller, more nimble GS.

    The other rumor was they'd base it on the GT86 platform, but nope. Just wishful thinking.

    The styling is a swing and a miss, at least the lights. Nothing a face lift couldn't fix, though.

    Would be nice to get an IS-F with unique styling.

    As it is, the CT is cheaper and looks better, plus it's a hatch. The ES looks a lot better, and supposedly isn't the iso-boat it used to be, who knows.

    I think the IS is sandwiched between two cars that will cannibalize it, especially with the off-putting lights. It won't make an impact in that segment, which is just way too competitive.

    I like the ATS and the A4 for styling. The Q50 a distant 3rd.

    Will share March sales in the next post, Lexus did great.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Here's Toyota's spin (they use DSR to make the numbers look better):

    Toyota division sales dropped 0.5% while the market was up 3%.

    Q1 was good, though, up 9% overall.

    Lexus did great, up 15.1%. I heard BMW had a great month, too, closing the gap with M-B.

    Avalon and ES both rocked, more than doubling sales. Impressive since some would say they compete with each other, a little.

    No detailed break down in that link, I prefer to see charts and then pick things that pop out. Sienna had a good month, too.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,770
    edited April 2013
    GS is decent, but nicer inside than outside, IMO. New IS taillights need a facelift already. CT is a little dorky, but at a good price point - kind of the Lexus CLA without the curves. ES is probably the best value, unless GS is in a blowout lease (which could be coming with those sputtering numbers).

    With A4, C, and 3er all stepping up strong, the ATS making people look over their shoulder, and the new Infiniti, IS is jumping into a fight.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, I think Cadillac swung for the fences with the ATS. Lexus offers...carryover power trains? Really? That lame base V6 with the carbon build up issues?

    Drop it like it's hot, as Snoop would say, and at least make the 3.5l standard.

    BMW 3er sales dropped so we know that segment is uber-competitive.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited April 2013
    Wasn't the Carbon buildup related to DI? I believe Toyota has re-vamped the 2.5 in 2009 to eliminate the issue.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Did they?

    The 3.5l has port and direct injection, so the fuel washes away any carbon as you drive along.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    I used to follow the IS more closely but I could have swore I read a release in 2009 (maybe 2010) that Lexus had re-worked the smaller engine to do just that. I could be wrong tho, but I don't recall the larger 6 ever having those sort of problems so I can't imagine the update was related to it...

    I need to research...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The 2.5l is a V6, while the ATS and others use a 4 banger (N/A and turbo).

    You'd never know, though, it doesn't feel quick.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,770
    Or make a good 4, as seems to be trendy in the segment right now.

    That little 6 might have some NVH positives, but doesn't seem to be remarkable otherwise, and is probably thirsty.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I wonder if the new IS will weigh less? And not just in the press kit claims.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,770
    I bet it will. Finally, weight loss is a trend. Even if it's 10lbs, that's progress.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Especially since new models have more features (ex: backup cams).
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,770
    Better engineering saves weight. Other systems are more efficient. I bet ICE weighs less now than 10 years ago.

    Speaking of backup cams, my new car has one, and I like it. I am a precise parker, and it lets me take advantage of that last inch.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Remember you used to be against those? :P

    I added one to my Sienna. Of course it's huge and the rear window doesn't let you see under 4' off the ground, so I think that type of vehicle should have it mandatory.

    Of course it's tied to a Magellan GPS which I'm not happy with. I really wish Garmin would offer a backup cam option, I'd swap it out in a heart beat.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,770
    I am against the automatic parking feature. The camera is good as it will probably prevent some frazzled suburban drone from backing over a kid.

    I am sometimes annoyed by the parking sensors - they go to full alarm much further from the obstacle than I prefer. I sometimes need to be within a couple inches.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I am against the automatic parking feature

    I'm not, people can NOT drive around here! :D
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Tight back seat leg room, even for its class, is probably the ATS's biggest deficit.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You know who nailed space efficiency? Nissan. The Sentra feels like a large sedan.

    Hopefully they do a sleeper SE-R like the 90-93 models. They haven't been as fun since.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Sure, the Sentra is roomy, but falls behind the competition in performance and the fun-to-drive factor, according to reviews I've read. Not too inspiring. A SE-R version might correct these deficiencies, while, hopefully, not adding too much to the cost and decreased MPG.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    half the $16 million will go to a gang reduction program and the other half will be used to pay the costs of the case and the pursuit of future economic crime cases.

    From The Detroit News:

    Lawyers only got half? How can they possibly afford the next yacht payment? ;)
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Can anyone identify the make/model of this vehicle. Best guess so far is a Toyota Highlander...moves so fast it's hard to tell.

    Toyota on the move
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaMember Posts: 399
    So they ate going to use some of it to pursue themselves? ( economic crimes). Seriously what the Lawyers make is often out of proportion to the total of the settlement, maybe if it was reduced somehow ( I know not the American way) then they wouldn't be as eager to take on cases that have such little merit.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,770
    I think that's a viral ad for Logitech cams. Seriously.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    pursue themselves? :D

    Funny thing is, they'd figure out a way to do it and keep that money.
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