Oh geez, so they will BOTH be Scions??!! I could see that in the case of the iQ, but the tC replacement is the right size and price range to be in the Toyota line, and Toyota could soooo use a car like this.
I am not sure what I have against the Scion label, it's just dumb I guess, but I would much rather have a car with the Toyota mark on it than the Scion one.
Of course, Subaru will offer its own version of this car, so there's hope yet.....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Subaru's constant place in the bottom half of the dependability studies gives me pause whe thinking they will be providing engines for a new Toyota Celica. Toyota has slipped a bit in quality "perception" in many consumer's minds. Add the Subaru less than stellar quality ratings and we could see a problem brewing. I do not know of one former celica fan that ever wished it came with a Subaru powerplant.
Well this particular powertrain has been around in Japanese Subarus for a number of years, so it's well tested and sorted by now, certainly by 2010 when they will deploy it in this new model.
Would they wish for a powered-up version of Toyota's new Valvematic 2.0? Well, they can go on wishing, because the only reason Toyota even took this on was because it could be done cheaply. And given the really awful way sales and the economy have gone, we can be thankful to that fact as the only reason this project is still in the works.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Well this particular powertrain has been around in Japanese Subarus for a number of years, so it's well tested and sorted by now, certainly by 2010 when they will deploy it in this new model.
Still it is a Subaru and that powertrain is the one that has Subaru several places lower than Toyota in dependability studies. Subaru has some of the most loyal customers in the business but those aren't Toyota customers. It would be one thing if they were offering a Toyota powerplant in the Toyota Version but it will be not much more than a Rebadged Subaru. Can you imagine if they rebadged the Matrix with a Iron Duke rather than making the Vibe a rebadged Toyota? After all Pontiac, Mazda and GMC are rated higher in dependability by JD Powers. And Toyota is as proud of their dependability rating as they are of anything else.
The reasons for Subaru's slipping ratings in the last decade are dual: the head gaskets failing prematurely in the 2.5L engine, and the wheel bearing problem. They have had them both licked for about 5 years now, so you will see the ratings rise again now.
And neither was ever a problem in the JDM 2.0 - this is the engine whose turbo version is in use in the Subaru WRC cars.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
..there is a 'countdown' page until the new Prius is debuted in Detroit in Jan. Initial reports are that the first of the Gen3's will be 'off line' in April with arrival here June-July.
Maybe this should be the first post in a Toyota in 2009 thread? This is the big news for 2009 certainly.
Toyota Motor Corp. will halt production at all of its U.S. and Canadian auto plants for two days in December to reduce its robust flow of vehicles into a sagging U.S. market.
The automaker also will cut back 2009 production levels at its big multi-car factory in Georgetown, Ky., as well as at its assembly plants in Princeton, Ind., and Fremont, Calif.
The reductions will affect all North American-made models, including the Camry, Corolla, Matrix and the just-introduced Venza crossover.
Despite the resilience some of its models have shown to the industry's steep downturn this year, Toyota is now sharing the pain. Total U.S. sales of Toyota, Lexus and Scion brands fell 23 percent in October, leaving Japanese officials in the unfamiliar position of fretting publicly about lost profits.
The company now plans to reduce headcount at its Georgetown plant by eliminating about half of the 500 temporary workers employed there. At the same time, the automaker will slow down the line speed of one of Georgetown's two lines, which builds the Camry, Solara and Venza, starting in January.
Toyota will also cut Sienna minivan production in Princeton by half starting in January. That plant will retain both of its shifts, but the two shifts will share in the reduced output. No employees will be laid off, Goss says.
The company also will eliminate the second shift on its Tacoma pickup line in California starting in January.
It's kind of ironic they made this announcement on the same day Honda had its inaugural ceremony for its new Indiana plant which will produce 100,000 Civics annually for now, 200,000 annually beginning in April next year. Toyota down, Honda up. :-P
And hey, the article mentions Solara production, but I thought '08 was the last year of the Solara?
I am sure there are some here that will post that your information can't be true. They were saying that at the end of 2008 so what does Toyota know? They aren't as bad off as some of the domestics so everything must be ok. Even if your post is the fulfillment of a prediction made by Toyota the beginning of last quarter. I believe someone said there is nothing to worry about. Unless you are a stock holder in Japan.
Well, one of the things they are doing to decrease production is slow down some lines, which should contribute to an increase in quality, eh? ;-)
I notice they mention all the domestically built models except the RX350 and the Tundra/Sequoia. I would be surprised if RX sales were that much slower than usual, since luxury makes are less impacted. But the Tundra/Sequoia, of course, took 3 months off production this fall. I wonder if Toyota is planning on scaling back their production in '09, or if the 3-month hiatus was enough to stay ahead of excess capacity.
The plant they are building where they were going to produce Highlanders, and then planned to build Priuses instead when the gas prices went crazy, is now rumored to be in question. Seems to me they would be wise to go ahead with it, and use part of the new plant to produce Yarises and other mini-Toyotas (including some Scions on the same platform). It would keep the money in America rather than losing half of those profits to the yen-dollar exchange rate. It also keeps Toyota more flexible and nimble in production to build as diverse a group of models as possible in the U.S.
Oh, and at the LA auto show today Ford announced it will sell a full-hybrid Fusion next year that will beat the Camry hybrid by at least 5 mpg, both city and highway. The chalice has been thrown down, Toyota! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I don't know how any thing has been thrown down. There are a lot of things Toyota "could do" but Toyota doesn't yet know what our government is going to do. Investing in a plant when auto sales are in the tank seems more like Honda than Toyota right now. I was surprised to see Nissan offering zero percent interest loans because of the short fall they have had as well.
It will also depend on what happens in the bail out vote on the domestics. If GM does release the Volt then a hybrid will seem like a step back to many of us. I still say GM and Toyota both dropped the ball when they discontinued their EVs because CARB let them off the hook. Ford was even advertising a sub compact EV at the time but over night hybrids took the stage and here were are 9 years later.
The Solara was dead but it got a last minute reprieve from a public campaign to save the convertible only. Since Sept no hardtops have been made. For the next two years the line will make Solara convertibles, Venza's and some Camry's. The Avalon at KY has it's own line I understand.
I believe that Toyota's view is that the world market will be depressed for all of 2009. It doesn't see a recovery before 2010. Toyota itself is just a ship in the seas of the overall market. It can't do anything else but ride out the present storm like every other ship in the sea.
It's not surprising that they too are losing volume and profits. This is a horribly difficult environment.
"Toyota Motor Corp. said Monday it is delaying plans to open its newest U.S. plant in Mississippi, which was to have built the next-generation Prius hybrid.
Citing the steep decline in the auto market, Toyota said it would complete construction of the building but would hold off on installing equipment, delaying the start of production that was slated for 2010."
I was wondering when someone would post that in this thread. They already have 100 employees on staff there, who apparently will NOT be losing their jobs. Yet completion of the plant is on indefinite hold. First it was Highlander demand that was too soft, now Prius demand. I wonder if they are regretting ever breaking ground on a new plant in the blighted U.S. auto market.
Prius demand is half what it was in summer, and dealers suddenly have plenty to spare again. And of course, the Prius is on the end of its long production run, with the new model scheduled to debut in spring. So sales would be down at this pont anyway. I bet they will still get the plant running in time for it to build the redesigned model, but they may delay the debut of that model a few months. I mean, why build the structure and hire 100 full-time staff, just to let it sit there without earning any money? Even if the auto market IS way down?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I understand that the plant is 90% complete already so I guess it makes sense to finish it at this point. $1.3 billion for an empty building is a lot. Well, I guess the sunk costs are just $300 million at this point. (Bloomberg)
The Cooper Tire plant in Tupelo may close (~1500 jobs) and lots of the furniture places there have moved to China, so losing the 2,000 Toyota jobs, even if it's just for a year, is gonna hurt.
Vernon and Gladys may have to Memphis all over again. :P
(If I have to explain that last one, you don't know your Elvis history).
A lot has to do with money already spent. They may have committed to building the plant and the money is already earmarked for that project. Encumbered is the term the money people use. Here in our Town Del Webb is building a new housing tract and it looks to be about 1/2 to 3/4 done. Construction is still going on but not three miles away is a whole housing tract very much like the one being built and nothing is moving. The banks have taken the bail out money and simply bought out other banks but loans are very hard to come by Houses that were selling for 500K when the projects were started are selling for 250K and less now.
I am a bit glad to see a glut in the Prius market. I always thought it was over priced for what you got and would love to see Toyota have to discount them to get rid of them at years end.
It was interesting to see the southern Senators from the states that have import manufacturing standing solidly behind denying the domestic bail out. But that is simply politics. I just don't know how any new imports from India or China can afford to start up here in the next two or three years? How will they get the financing? How will people get the financing to buy their vehicles? As this recession spreads to the rest of the world things are simply going to get tighter for everyone and I don't see Toyota coming out of this without a scar of some kind.
I read this in your linked article with great interest:
But the news reports said Toyota would further downgrade its sales and earnings projections as the company was battered by a sharp decline in global auto sales and the yen's continued appreciation against the dollar
The reason that is interesting to me is that the morning news reported that the two divisions of Toyota in Japan that are projected to actually lose money this year are the ones that make the Prius and the Camry - two divisions whose markets are mostly in export to the U.S., where the yen/dollar exchange rate becomes a very important factor.
I guess that is a lot MORE true for Prius than it is for Camry, since most Camrys sold in the U.S. get built here.
Note that despite the misleading title, Toyota is not going to have an overall loss this year, although they do expect their net operating profit to be down almost 70% for the fiscal year ending March 31, to 550 billion yen, or somewhat more than $6 billion U.S. at current exchange rates.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Today on mainstream news Toyota reported a real loss of 1.6 Billion dollars. this was a manufacturing loss but isn't saying Toyota doesn't have reserves. However they are going to hve to dip into those reserves as this is the first Loss posted by Toyota since 1939. They said sales are down in Japan, Europe and the US. And Toyota said 2009 doesn't look like it will be any better. They said they will have to cut back. Not saying what cut back means. So for those that said Toyota isn't worried? Maybe they know more than the head of Toyota.
What does Toyota know? They made the report to their stock holders so they must be lying. I have no clue what some related industry might make but Toyota said, "we will take a 1.6 Billion dollar loss this year due to car sales." And then they followed up with, 2009 doesn't look like there will be any improvement. So that is the message delivered by national news. I was only reporting what I happened to hear.
"Toyota, the world's largest auto company by sales, still expects to report a small net profit for the fiscal year ending March 31. But it forecast a consolidated operating loss of 150 billion yen, or about $1.7 billion, amid falling demand in the U.S., Europe, Japan and other major markets, as well as a strengthening of the yen."
Yes, even GM can tell us its military division will show a profit. But it is the first posted loss by Toyota since 1932. If this continues through 2009, and it looks like it will, book plugging won't help. If the dollar doesn't recover thing in Japan could get interesting. But that is OK Toyota has nothing to worry about, depression and recession won't effect them.
I think what Toyota is trying to say is that the Toyota division will take a loss of $1.7 billion, but the Toyota GROUP which includes much of Hino (truck maker) and 51% of Daihatsu (minicar maker for the home market), will still make a small profit.
To put this in perspective, Toyota made more than $22 billion in profits last year. So about 15 days of profit from 2007 will be required to cover their entire annual loss this year. Still, it is of course a major problem, and they are cutting back all production expansion for a while, and eliminating overtime production across the globe. I learned something new: they have 72 plants worldwide.
And on the bright side, the rumor is that Toyota has finally done it: 2008 is the first year in which it is on course to be the #1 selling brand in the U.S., beating out both Chevy and Ford.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
And on the bright side, the rumor is that Toyota has finally done it: 2008 is the first year in which it is on course to be the #1 selling brand in the U.S., beating out both Chevy and Ford. :sick:
Camry has not been an especially brisk-selling hybrid for Toyota. Will Ford have better luck with the new Fusion hybrid?
The new Fusion and the new Mercury Milan hybrids were certified by the EPA at 41 mpg in city driving and 36 mpg on the highway. That beats the Toyota Camry hybrid by eight mpg in the city and two on the highway. Ford also says it betters the Honda Civic hybrid by one mile in city driving.
I guess even Honda may need to worry a little, although the Civic hybrid is a less expensive (and smaller) car.
Toyota Motor Corp. may be getting a new leader in 2009.
The Wall Street Journal reported today that Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe is expected to quit sometime in 2009.
Toyota officials in the United States, contacted by Automotive News, would not comment on the report.
Toyota is projecting a rare operating loss for the fiscal year, which ends in March. But the expected operating loss would not be the reason for any change in management, according to the report.
Watanabe would assume the mostly ceremonial role of Toyota chairman and take over for Fujio Cho, who is suffering from health problems, according to The Wall Street Journal.
But is he quitting or is he being promoted? I would expect a top executive or two to fall on the sword after the forecast of the first annual loss in 60 years of manufacturing history.
In related news, it's now official: unwanted Toyotas are piling up in California. California has always been an important import car market. But unsold cars, fresh off the boat, are stacking up in Benicia, as well as in Southern California.
Toyota and Mercedes alone have leased an additional 46 acres to store cars in California that have no buyers and nowhere to go. Japanese automakers now find themselves in the same predicament as Detroit.
Consumers are staying away from showrooms, either unable to get loans or unwilling to make a big purchase right now. And that's causing new Toyota shipments to stack up at its facility at the port of Benicia.
The president of Toyota told reporters in Japan: "It's a kind of emergency that we've never experienced before."
"Places where we thought there was going to be great strength -- better than here, it looks like we're all in the same boat right now," said Sean Randolph Ph.D.
Randolph is an economist and president of the Bay Area Economic Institute. A global economic flu has spread from the U.S. to Europe and now to Asia. Japanese exports to the U.S. are down 33 percent.
This is pretty much like I reported I heard from the Local LA news stations a few weeks ago. Maybe it was in the where did the dealers forum. But even you said you couldn't believe the Prius shown in the pictures of LA/Long Beach harbor was stacking up when someone said they thought they were selling like hot cakes. I don't get the jump on you often my friend. But I used to drive by those lots every week a few years ago and I had never seen that many imports covered with dirt and dust as in the last few months. Yes it is like the old days when they had to rent space for excess domestics.
None of this should have been a surprise. Look to our history and see what happened to the rest of the world when the US went into the depression. Same spread of the same flu.
Now if Fox News had reported this news instead of ABC they would have released the Story on December 7th.
Hey boaz, I noticed a TV ad yesterday which showed there is currently a $1000 cash rebate on the Prius. I think this is unprecedented for this model - cash on the hood! Think they will move any more of them with the added incentive? You in the market?! :-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Very funny my friend. :mad: If Toyota hadn't decided to make the Prius look like a fat door stop I might not have taken a dislike to it right off the bat. I did look at the Insight when it first came out and considered it before I got the PT or the Focus. It reminded me a bit of the CRX if only it didn't have those stupid wheel skirts. But when I was shopping a good friend of mine did drop the coin and bought one. He had a horrid commute to Edwards AFB and yes it got better than 60MPG. Not often have I wished I had picked a car and now think of getting a used one. But the Prius was never in the running because while I will put up with some bad road manners, remember I lived in the mountains, I simply couldn't put up with a wallowing toad like the first gen Prius. Not if it wasn't going to deliver 60 MPG.
It's also significant for another reason. This is the first vehicle from the 4 hybrid makers that's placed in direct competition with another hybrid. Yes the HAH was there for a while but it disappeared as soon as the TCH arrived. Yes the NAH is sold in competition to the TCH but in fact it is a TCH in a Nissan skin....and only in limited markets.
Now the FFH will be the No 1 most fuel efficient midsized auto on the road. Although it too will be sold only in 'hot spot' markets due to battery supply limitations it is right in the face of the TCH.
By my perception this is the end of the 10 yr 'introduction period' where the hybrid makers did not compete against one another directly. Now they do.
So what will 2009 bring? I'll start off by a few obvious observations..
Toyota is not going away and it is not in any finacial trouble, but just like every other vehicle maker now it lacks customers.
The lack of consumers coming to showrooms currently will extend well into the prime buying season of March - Sept. I don't know all the details but I'm hoping that the Obama Stimulus package may break the winter ice buildup in consumer buying.
The JY/USD rate of 90:1, until a new rate is agreed upon, will put a temporary halt to 4Runner, Land Cruiser ( tiny ), GX470, LX570, LS and most other Lexus shipments from Japan. Yaris, Scion and Prius sales will also be affected. Corolla, Camry, Sienna, Avalon, IS, RAV, Matrix, Tacoma, Tundra, Sequoia and soon Highlander sales will not be affected at all since nearly all of them are produced here.
Lower fuel prices will begin to bring buyers back to look at trucks again.
The probable demise of Chrysler will be a boon for the other 3 truck makers and for Honda and Toyota's minivan businesses.
Current estimates indicate that 2009 will be the worst year sales-wise in the last 60 yrs. It will be significantly worse on the production side. If current sales estimates for 2009 are accurate @ 10 million units then with a 3 million unit inventory overhang that means that only 6-7 million units are needed to be produced for the US market. This isn't NA production because some of these units will be produced in Europe and Asia. NA production is likely to be in the 5-6 million unit range. That's about 50% of what's been 'normal' these past two decades.
The Gen 3 Prius will be debuted in two weeks. Orders are already being placed without prices. Some people indicate that their 'number' is in the hundreds. It should arrive in late spring but without a new currency agreement I'd expect that the initial supplies will be very very limited with pricing on the high side to say the least.
A new 4Runner is due here this spring ( see above ). It may not be very significant simply due to the death of this segment coupled with the currency situation.
The Camry is due for a refresh in Feb/Mar with the new 2.5L 2AR engine. It will be more powerful and more fuel efficient. Will there be a 6Spd tranny to go along with it? How will Toyota respond to the debut of the new Ford Fusion hybrid? When will the TCH be redone with the 2AR linked to the new HSD in the Gen 3 Prius?
Other possible developments are an announcement on a hybrid minivan; a hybrid option on the Venza; a new EV concept vehicle to be debuted in Detroit next month; a fuel cell offering for the public.
Toyota is number 1 now so some people will think it's time to bring them down a notch.
Some of the blame for the domestic auto woes is going to be directed at the imports, rightly or wrongly. The Hummer defacing crowd may get some company as delinquents move over to Priuses.
Generally speaking, I think people are going to continue to hang on to their money more closely for the next few years which is going to mean excess manufacturing capacity for all the car companies. It probably will take something like a fuel cell to get people excited about buying cars again.
I would have liked an old style xB with a 1.0L diesel engine. A cool little box to run my errands getting 50+ MPG. They were over price and not great mileage for as small of an engine with gas. Another missed opportunity for Toyota.
I would have liked an old style xB with a 1.0L diesel engine. A cool little box to run my errands getting 50+ MPG
Problem with a diesel engine is that to be really fuel efficient the engine must be really hot. A five or ten minuet drive to the mall or to run errands really doesn't get the engine hot enough to get the big MPG. If you factor in the extra price you paid for the diesel engine and then the extra price you pay each time for diesel fuel. I don't think you are gaining that much with all the fuel efficient vehicles on the market today.
I agree on Ford which is saying something because I am not a traditional Ford fan.
The Fusion hybrid looks competitive on every level and is an attractive vehicle. Even with all the batteries you still get a 12 cu ft trunk which is onlt 2 cu ft short of a regular old Accord. This puts Ford in the thick of things and highlights how much more together they are than GM ar the nearly dead Chrysler.
30 mpg on a Prius is normal? They're out of their minds.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
If you drive the way you drove your previous vehicle that is probably about right. To get the rated 50 MPG, think grandma driving. No going over 55 MPH. There are a lot of tricks posted under the Prius threads that may help. I don't think replacement is a good idea at this point. The market for the Prius is not great so you would lose your shorts.
Comments
new tC from Subaru
Note also the reference to the iQ, which also has been rumored.
I am not sure what I have against the Scion label, it's just dumb I guess, but I would much rather have a car with the Toyota mark on it than the Scion one.
Of course, Subaru will offer its own version of this car, so there's hope yet.....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Would they wish for a powered-up version of Toyota's new Valvematic 2.0? Well, they can go on wishing, because the only reason Toyota even took this on was because it could be done cheaply. And given the really awful way sales and the economy have gone, we can be thankful to that fact as the only reason this project is still in the works.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Still it is a Subaru and that powertrain is the one that has Subaru several places lower than Toyota in dependability studies. Subaru has some of the most loyal customers in the business but those aren't Toyota customers. It would be one thing if they were offering a Toyota powerplant in the Toyota Version but it will be not much more than a Rebadged Subaru. Can you imagine if they rebadged the Matrix with a Iron Duke rather than making the Vibe a rebadged Toyota? After all Pontiac, Mazda and GMC are rated higher in dependability by JD Powers. And Toyota is as proud of their dependability rating as they are of anything else.
And neither was ever a problem in the JDM 2.0 - this is the engine whose turbo version is in use in the Subaru WRC cars.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Maybe this should be the first post in a Toyota in 2009 thread? This is the big news for 2009 certainly.
Can the hosts please look into that? Thanks.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Toyota Motor Corp. will halt production at all of its U.S. and Canadian auto plants for two days in December to reduce its robust flow of vehicles into a sagging U.S. market.
The automaker also will cut back 2009 production levels at its big multi-car factory in Georgetown, Ky., as well as at its assembly plants in Princeton, Ind., and Fremont, Calif.
The reductions will affect all North American-made models, including the Camry, Corolla, Matrix and the just-introduced Venza crossover.
Despite the resilience some of its models have shown to the industry's steep downturn this year, Toyota is now sharing the pain. Total U.S. sales of Toyota, Lexus and Scion brands fell 23 percent in October, leaving Japanese officials in the unfamiliar position of fretting publicly about lost profits.
The company now plans to reduce headcount at its Georgetown plant by eliminating about half of the 500 temporary workers employed there. At the same time, the automaker will slow down the line speed of one of Georgetown's two lines, which builds the Camry, Solara and Venza, starting in January.
Toyota will also cut Sienna minivan production in Princeton by half starting in January. That plant will retain both of its shifts, but the two shifts will share in the reduced output. No employees will be laid off, Goss says.
The company also will eliminate the second shift on its Tacoma pickup line in California starting in January.
It's kind of ironic they made this announcement on the same day Honda had its inaugural ceremony for its new Indiana plant which will produce 100,000 Civics annually for now, 200,000 annually beginning in April next year. Toyota down, Honda up. :-P
And hey, the article mentions Solara production, but I thought '08 was the last year of the Solara?
http://www.autonews.com/article/20081118/ANA02/811189950/1208/ANA06&Profile=1208- - (registration link)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I notice they mention all the domestically built models except the RX350 and the Tundra/Sequoia. I would be surprised if RX sales were that much slower than usual, since luxury makes are less impacted. But the Tundra/Sequoia, of course, took 3 months off production this fall. I wonder if Toyota is planning on scaling back their production in '09, or if the 3-month hiatus was enough to stay ahead of excess capacity.
The plant they are building where they were going to produce Highlanders, and then planned to build Priuses instead when the gas prices went crazy, is now rumored to be in question. Seems to me they would be wise to go ahead with it, and use part of the new plant to produce Yarises and other mini-Toyotas (including some Scions on the same platform). It would keep the money in America rather than losing half of those profits to the yen-dollar exchange rate. It also keeps Toyota more flexible and nimble in production to build as diverse a group of models as possible in the U.S.
Oh, and at the LA auto show today Ford announced it will sell a full-hybrid Fusion next year that will beat the Camry hybrid by at least 5 mpg, both city and highway. The chalice has been thrown down, Toyota! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It will also depend on what happens in the bail out vote on the domestics. If GM does release the Volt then a hybrid will seem like a step back to many of us. I still say GM and Toyota both dropped the ball when they discontinued their EVs because CARB let them off the hook. Ford was even advertising a sub compact EV at the time but over night hybrids took the stage and here were are 9 years later.
It's not surprising that they too are losing volume and profits. This is a horribly difficult environment.
Citing the steep decline in the auto market, Toyota said it would complete construction of the building but would hold off on installing equipment, delaying the start of production that was slated for 2010."
Toyota Delays Mississippi Plant Launch; Slashes Forecast, Details Cost Cuts Next week (AutoObserver)
Prius demand is half what it was in summer, and dealers suddenly have plenty to spare again. And of course, the Prius is on the end of its long production run, with the new model scheduled to debut in spring. So sales would be down at this pont anyway. I bet they will still get the plant running in time for it to build the redesigned model, but they may delay the debut of that model a few months. I mean, why build the structure and hire 100 full-time staff, just to let it sit there without earning any money? Even if the auto market IS way down?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The Cooper Tire plant in Tupelo may close (~1500 jobs) and lots of the furniture places there have moved to China, so losing the 2,000 Toyota jobs, even if it's just for a year, is gonna hurt.
Vernon and Gladys may have to Memphis all over again. :P
(If I have to explain that last one, you don't know your Elvis history).
I am a bit glad to see a glut in the Prius market. I always thought it was over priced for what you got and would love to see Toyota have to discount them to get rid of them at years end.
It was interesting to see the southern Senators from the states that have import manufacturing standing solidly behind denying the domestic bail out. But that is simply politics. I just don't know how any new imports from India or China can afford to start up here in the next two or three years? How will they get the financing? How will people get the financing to buy their vehicles? As this recession spreads to the rest of the world things are simply going to get tighter for everyone and I don't see Toyota coming out of this without a scar of some kind.
But the news reports said Toyota would further downgrade its sales and earnings projections as the company was battered by a sharp decline in global auto sales and the yen's continued appreciation against the dollar
The reason that is interesting to me is that the morning news reported that the two divisions of Toyota in Japan that are projected to actually lose money this year are the ones that make the Prius and the Camry - two divisions whose markets are mostly in export to the U.S., where the yen/dollar exchange rate becomes a very important factor.
I guess that is a lot MORE true for Prius than it is for Camry, since most Camrys sold in the U.S. get built here.
Note that despite the misleading title, Toyota is not going to have an overall loss this year, although they do expect their net operating profit to be down almost 70% for the fiscal year ending March 31, to 550 billion yen, or somewhat more than $6 billion U.S. at current exchange rates.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Well, I got the link via Drudge so that's to be expected. :P
"Toyota, the world's largest auto company by sales, still expects to report a small net profit for the fiscal year ending March 31. But it forecast a consolidated operating loss of 150 billion yen, or about $1.7 billion, amid falling demand in the U.S., Europe, Japan and other major markets, as well as a strengthening of the yen."
WSJ via Yahoo
To put this in perspective, Toyota made more than $22 billion in profits last year. So about 15 days of profit from 2007 will be required to cover their entire annual loss this year. Still, it is of course a major problem, and they are cutting back all production expansion for a while, and eliminating overtime production across the globe. I learned something new: they have 72 plants worldwide.
And on the bright side, the rumor is that Toyota has finally done it: 2008 is the first year in which it is on course to be the #1 selling brand in the U.S., beating out both Chevy and Ford.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
HOW is this the bright side :confuse:
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The new Fusion and the new Mercury Milan hybrids were certified by the EPA at 41 mpg in city driving and 36 mpg on the highway. That beats the Toyota Camry hybrid by eight mpg in the city and two on the highway. Ford also says it betters the Honda Civic hybrid by one mile in city driving.
I guess even Honda may need to worry a little, although the Civic hybrid is a less expensive (and smaller) car.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20081223/FREE/812239986
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Uhhhhh right!!!!!!!!!!! :P Guess I missed your point :sick:
The Wall Street Journal reported today that Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe is expected to quit sometime in 2009.
Toyota officials in the United States, contacted by Automotive News, would not comment on the report.
Toyota is projecting a rare operating loss for the fiscal year, which ends in March. But the expected operating loss would not be the reason for any change in management, according to the report.
Watanabe would assume the mostly ceremonial role of Toyota chairman and take over for Fujio Cho, who is suffering from health problems, according to The Wall Street Journal.
But is he quitting or is he being promoted? I would expect a top executive or two to fall on the sword after the forecast of the first annual loss in 60 years of manufacturing history.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081223/ANA02/812239973/1178- -
(registration link)
In related news, it's now official: unwanted Toyotas are piling up in California.
California has always been an important import car market. But unsold cars, fresh off the boat, are stacking up in Benicia, as well as in Southern California.
Toyota and Mercedes alone have leased an additional 46 acres to store cars in California that have no buyers and nowhere to go. Japanese automakers now find themselves in the same predicament as Detroit.
Consumers are staying away from showrooms, either unable to get loans or unwilling to make a big purchase right now.
And that's causing new Toyota shipments to stack up at its facility at the port of Benicia.
The president of Toyota told reporters in Japan: "It's a kind of emergency that we've never experienced before."
"Places where we thought there was going to be great strength -- better than here, it looks like we're all in the same boat right now," said Sean Randolph Ph.D.
Randolph is an economist and president of the Bay Area Economic Institute. A global economic flu has spread from the U.S. to Europe and now to Asia. Japanese exports to the U.S. are down 33 percent.
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/business&id=6567989
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
None of this should have been a surprise. Look to our history and see what happened to the rest of the world when the US went into the depression. Same spread of the same flu.
Now if Fox News had reported this news instead of ABC they would have released the Story on December 7th.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It's also significant for another reason. This is the first vehicle from the 4 hybrid makers that's placed in direct competition with another hybrid. Yes the HAH was there for a while but it disappeared as soon as the TCH arrived. Yes the NAH is sold in competition to the TCH but in fact it is a TCH in a Nissan skin....and only in limited markets.
Now the FFH will be the No 1 most fuel efficient midsized auto on the road. Although it too will be sold only in 'hot spot' markets due to battery supply limitations it is right in the face of the TCH.
By my perception this is the end of the 10 yr 'introduction period' where the hybrid makers did not compete against one another directly. Now they do.
We enter a new period.
Toyota is not going away and it is not in any finacial trouble, but just like every other vehicle maker now it lacks customers.
The lack of consumers coming to showrooms currently will extend well into the prime buying season of March - Sept. I don't know all the details but I'm hoping that the Obama Stimulus package may break the winter ice buildup in consumer buying.
The JY/USD rate of 90:1, until a new rate is agreed upon, will put a temporary halt to 4Runner, Land Cruiser ( tiny ), GX470, LX570, LS and most other Lexus shipments from Japan. Yaris, Scion and Prius sales will also be affected. Corolla, Camry, Sienna, Avalon, IS, RAV, Matrix, Tacoma, Tundra, Sequoia and soon Highlander sales will not be affected at all since nearly all of them are produced here.
Lower fuel prices will begin to bring buyers back to look at trucks again.
The probable demise of Chrysler will be a boon for the other 3 truck makers and for Honda and Toyota's minivan businesses.
Current estimates indicate that 2009 will be the worst year sales-wise in the last 60 yrs. It will be significantly worse on the production side. If current sales estimates for 2009 are accurate @ 10 million units then with a 3 million unit inventory overhang that means that only 6-7 million units are needed to be produced for the US market. This isn't NA production because some of these units will be produced in Europe and Asia. NA production is likely to be in the 5-6 million unit range. That's about 50% of what's been 'normal' these past two decades.
The Gen 3 Prius will be debuted in two weeks. Orders are already being placed without prices. Some people indicate that their 'number' is in the hundreds. It should arrive in late spring but without a new currency agreement I'd expect that the initial supplies will be very very limited with pricing on the high side to say the least.
A new 4Runner is due here this spring ( see above ). It may not be very significant simply due to the death of this segment coupled with the currency situation.
The Camry is due for a refresh in Feb/Mar with the new 2.5L 2AR engine. It will be more powerful and more fuel efficient. Will there be a 6Spd tranny to go along with it? How will Toyota respond to the debut of the new Ford Fusion hybrid? When will the TCH be redone with the 2AR linked to the new HSD in the Gen 3 Prius?
Other possible developments are an announcement on a hybrid minivan; a hybrid option on the Venza; a new EV concept vehicle to be debuted in Detroit next month; a fuel cell offering for the public.
Toyota is number 1 now so some people will think it's time to bring them down a notch.
Some of the blame for the domestic auto woes is going to be directed at the imports, rightly or wrongly. The Hummer defacing crowd may get some company as delinquents move over to Priuses.
Generally speaking, I think people are going to continue to hang on to their money more closely for the next few years which is going to mean excess manufacturing capacity for all the car companies. It probably will take something like a fuel cell to get people excited about buying cars again.
Does Scion still make sense in North America?
Problem with a diesel engine is that to be really fuel efficient the engine must be really hot. A five or ten minuet drive to the mall or to run errands really doesn't get the engine hot enough to get the big MPG. If you factor in the extra price you paid for the diesel engine and then the extra price you pay each time for diesel fuel. I don't think you are gaining that much with all the fuel efficient vehicles on the market today.
What can I do for repair or replacement?
The Fusion hybrid looks competitive on every level and is an attractive vehicle. Even with all the batteries you still get a 12 cu ft trunk which is onlt 2 cu ft short of a regular old Accord. This puts Ford in the thick of things and highlights how much more together they are than GM ar the nearly dead Chrysler.
30 mpg on a Prius is normal? They're out of their minds.
(Inside Line)
Like the 1932 Ford V-8 did during the Depression. A V-8 for the masses was a big thing back in the day.