What people fail to realize is that by supporting these Japanese companies with their inflated yen, we are slowly leading our economy to the point of no return. Not only are these foreign companies taking their money back to their own country and investing it there, but they are also (along with China) slowly dictating the economy.
Just for the geographically challenged amongst us which parts of Texas, Ontario, Michigan, Mississippi and Indiana are located in Japan? I can't find this on the map of Japan.
No. We're just shifting what parts of the economy we lead in. Instead of manufacturing appliances and consumer goods, we do more high tech, bio tech, financial services etc... It's hard to compete in manufacturing against the up and coming economies of the world- I can't really think of any Western developed country with much of an industrial base anymore, the West is pretty clearly shifting from the industrial age.
It's also important to realize that we're helping to bring develop a lot of countries out of poverty- The progress that places like South Korea, India and China have made is fantastic, largely because of their industrialization and manufacturing. It's a bad thing for people in this country who get laid off, but that's the price of progress- it helps to be highly specialized and able to do things that your competitors can't... unfortunately assembling cars is something that I don't think the US has any advantadge at, and really never has. The British lost their car industry with barely a peep.
"What people fail to realize is that by supporting these Japanese companies with their inflated yen, we are slowly leading our economy to the point of no return. Not only are these foreign companies taking their money back to their own country and investing it there, but they are also (along with China) slowly dictating the economy.
For those who refuse to believe (or don't care according to some posters) where their money goes as long as they get what they want, the countries who accumulate the most revenue will control the economies of the world. Japan and China have started this control already and they are accumulating money at an unbelieveable pace. It won't take to many more years until they have control and our economy and current prices for goods will never be the same. "
I'm curious to see how the new full-size Tundra does in the market. The engine is clearly a winner. The dash is a mystery. Chevy got the dash just right. The Tundra's interior packaging is very nicely done. And the Tundra's styling a bit too Dodge Ram but more modern and very American aside from a couple of fussy details.
Now comes the initial crash ratings and the Tundra scores 4 stars for driver and passenger frontal safety ratings while the Ford and Chevy competitors are 5 stars for frontal collisions. This is a bit surprising given the visual length of the Tundra's hood.
Truck drivers expect to win in collisions. Good when others are great is a potential problem for Toyota. In real life rollover numbers may be more important as this is the weak spot for fullsize truck safety. Side and rollover ratings are not yet available on www.safercar.gov. (As of 3/21/07)
One thing is clear, even with a clean sheet design, Toyota's vaunted engineering did not deliver an across the board winner. The Tundra is competitive but not dominant and it has clear weaknesses. Build quality is still a traditional Toyota strength, but the Tundra will need to avoid the spat of recent Toyota recalls to claim that over the well assembled Silverado. Time will tell, both in sales and further safety rankings. At minimum Toyota truck buyers don't have to be embarrassed anymore. The Tundra is credible, just not perfect.
The canard part of this is that it is not representative of employee wages nor presented in the context of the average pay for UAW workers. The corrections and actual earnings of UAW workers was widely reported in response to this. It would be similar to saying that some Toyota's or, name your make, blow up within 25 thousand miles. It is hyperbole at its most disengenus. Or as they say in politics; partially accurate, but untruthful. This site seems to be particularly redolent with anti american worker sentiment.
"I guess Micheline Maynard, who quoted the GM manager in her book, doesn't know what she is talking about? You need to take that up with her. You also need to compare the number of hours different companies need to build a vehicle. Forgive me, but I'm more inclined to take her word for it, based on her qualifications and expertise." ===========================================================
I believe the writer is a journalist. Journalist interview people and report statements made by those they interview. I expect that she also interviewed those that had counter statements. If not she failed at the primary objective of journalism which is to collect information and condense it for distribution. Do you really think the President of GM after driving GM into a wall is going to say "I confess - I did it"? No, he is going to say that those who have no say in management decisions actually made the decisions for management. In short "The workers did it, not me!"
Separately: Someone should write a piece about Micheline Maynard for Wikipedia - she is invisible there.
This site seems to be particularly redolent with anti american worker sentiment.
Not here, in fact I make sure (not always but I try) to buy cars built in the good ol US of A. Right now I own 1, a Honda Accord built in Ohio but I am interested in another 100% "made in the USA" vehicle, a Toyota Tundra.
I have no problem supporting the American labor force, in fact it's my preference, but I don't have to go to Detroit to prove it.
"Also, six figure annual wages aren't that uncommon amongst production line auto workers. Overtime, added to regular wages, can easily make it happen fairly often." ============================================================
This idea lives on despite all of the evidence against it. I come from a UAW family. None of them or their friends have ever met anyone near that bracket. They do believe that somewhere, sometime someone must have made that amount of money and they are all hoping that they are next in line. That it gets repeated and amplified and now has become an urban legend is also the way American cars ended up with a far worse reputation than evidence and experience indicated.
I recently stopped by the Honda, Toyota, and Mazda lots since my wife is looking for a new vehicle. I've always thought very highly of Toyota and was really shocked at how "average" the Toyota's were. We test drove the Scion Xa and Xb, Matrix, and FJ. The FJ was shockingly bad: worst blind spots I've ever seen, crumby ride, spartan cabin, felt neither fun or sporty. The others were low on power, loud, and just felt like appliances.
We went to the Honda dealer and all the cars we test drove were leaps and bounds ahead. We tried the Element SC, Fit, and Civic Si. All had impressive interiors, sporty handling, and lots of thoughtful design touches. Honda is really knocking them out of the park.
We also Tested a Mazda 3 and CX -7 and were also impressed with how good they both felt, drove, and looked.
Toyota seemed like they are really behind in terms of design and really need to add some passion into their lineup.
"The guys we are having a discussion with aren't bad pal. They just are all very hard headed." ============================================================ Just like most of management I have dealt with over the years:) I started out in a UAW family and in typical youthful pattern decided that unions were bad. I started and ran my own businesses, ran other peoples businesses, and through a series of life events realized I was on the wrong side after all. (Forgive me for I have sinned:)) I am now a union organizer in the service industry and served for four years as President of my local.
The only way out of this in the long term seems to be democratization and organizing on an international scale, or we will all end up guest workers in our own homelands.
"The Toyota system is making major changes in America's businesses. " ===========================================================
You mean the Taylor system (of which this is a variation) invented by an American and rejected by American management and then adopted by the Japanese decades ago?
"Those who can't adapt - either companies or unions - will soon be swept away by the forces of history." ============================================================
I think the last group that thought this found they were a little premature - I think they were waving red flags or something. They did manage to bury 30 million or so, and still ended up in management!
"Yes, from what I've seen, that seems to be the UAW mentality. I missed the part where union members and leaders really expressed concerns about quality. They've practically had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into making changes that will ultimately improve productivity and quality."
My UAW family members and their fiends had quite a different experience. UAW worker suggestion were routinely rejected and even discouraged over the long term. My own experience in various management positions, and now as a union organizer has duplicated that same experience. The best quote I can give you from the CFO of an operation with a 200 million dollar operating and capital budget speaking to his subordinates is; "If we let them make suggestions then they will expect us to implement some of them". Almost all of his subordinates nodded their heads in agreement, only one or two rolled their eyes - they won't be promoted.
Workers will make miracles out of nothing if you let them.
"Pointing out that the domestic plants have a bigger problem with daily absence rates and cling to outmoded work rules and job classifications at least partially because of the UAW - which hurts both quality and productivity - is now equated with terrorism? What utter nonsense."
Your original statement about workers, which you left out of the above, was pure cant and targeted those least able to defend themselves or to affect changes in management. It was a cowardly and destructive statement. Statements similar in tone and nature have done more to damage Americans than a hundred terrorist attacks ever will. Was it Terrorism? Yes!! Were you having a bad moment? maybe.
"But.... now our buildings and orange groves and beef and steel and autos and houses and land and labor are also 20% less expensive."
Probably not quite: An increase in the value of the yen by 20% against the dollar would also affect the value of all other major currencies and would have them also bidding on the same property which would drive the price up.
"Just for the geographically challenged amongst us which parts of Texas, Ontario, Michigan, Mississippi and Indiana are located in Japan? I can't find this on the map of Japan."
They are being towed by slow tug financed by big money to be anchored off the Southern tip of Japan. There they will be made into an amusement park with the original bronze sculpture of the raising of our flag over Iwo Jima placed at its entrance. Invest now!
"Or, looking at it another way, the UAW expects everyone else to buy an inferior product just so they can continue to pretend it's still 1965."
Not really. What we expect is that Americans will again realize that there are values beyond merely greed and profit. Those values, which come from our religious and historical experiences, have always acted as brakes at some point in our periodic embracing of mindless acquisition. The building of cities, communities, lives and families were American values that transcended mere profit. That it what is hoped for.
"The only reason the domestics are as good as they are now is because ferocious competition forced them to dramatically upgrade the quality and value of their products."
Do you think that the Japanese ended up in the position they now hold without having had to face fierce competition from the US? That was and is their golden dream - to be more American than Americans by engaging us in our best game. They have done very well but are facing their own internal difficulties now, especially the aging population and diminishing work force, which have been among the primary drivers of exporting entire industries.
"If you think companies exist to provide workers with jobs, you may need to do some more research."
Providing people with jobs was what the building of America was about at one time. We ran up against the opposite to this during the Reagan era when forced buy outs and the destruction of towns and cities became "business as usual". It is contrary to our spiritual and ethical roots and is now coming back to bite us in the butt. When I was building my business part of the gratification was in creating jobs and affecting peoples lives, as well as being a art of the community. Now we let our people die.
" Unions didn't "build this country." Men such as Henry Ford I, Alfred P. Sloan, Walter P. Chrysler and Andrew Carnegie did. They had the brains, ambition, talent to bring their ideas to reality, and those ideas grew the economy and made it stronger and more productive, thus making more wealth available for everyone."
I always love this elitist view of the world, it explains so much about the failure of management and the American business model. In owning my own businesses, as well as managing others, and for that matter every time I got a dividend check, I understood and appreciated that the workers had made the money for me. There are a million ideas floating around out there but without workers to make them happen, nothing happens but day dreams. The continued implicit and explicit denial of this reality by elitist management and investors continues to sap the moral spirit of American workers.
Hypnosis, any chance you could condense your responses into one or two posts? I am interested in what you are saying, but it's kinda shutting others out of the conversation when you post half a dozen times in a row (or more, your latest string is 10 consecutive).
Just a hopeful request.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I was expecting that others would be posting this evening and that that would break it up. Also, I have not found a good way to respond to another poster who either conflates multiple thoughts into a single narrative, or also posts multiple posts. I will work on it as I don't like the fragmentation either.
Whining about overpaid UAW union labor is pretty comical. Some of these guys were making 6 figure incomes without a college education... how can the domestics compete, having to carry that kind of labor cost, along with the health care and pension burden? Why do you think domestic companies are producing in Mexico? They're desperately trying to cut costs. Why is Chrysler going to make a small car in China, for sale in the US? Who does GM import a Daewoo small car for sale as the Aveo? Because they can't make it here for cheap enough. And that's due to the sweetheart union contracts, pension and health care burdens that are from the 1960s. It's not the 60s anymore, and Japan Inc. done ate Ford and GM's lunch a looong time ago.
Think about what you said as it makes no sense. The Japanese union workers back in Japan, make more money and get more sweetheart benefits from Toyota, than UAW workers. Do the union workers in Japan, not get pensions ? Yeah they have socialized medicine but the company does subsidize alot for it's employees. The union employee in Japan, gets discount housing, shops at discount stores, kids go to Toyota schools, and the company pays for some entertainment for it's employees. The UAW, are [non-permissible content removed] cats compared to the barbarack union in Japan, and compared to the European unions they are like ummmm 3-legged cats.
Dude, you seem like a nice guy but you need to do some research on this subject. Yeah, we get the propoganda from some members of our media. Did my family make a good living at GM, sure did. Did they deserve every nickel, sure did. They busted their [non-permissible content removed] for GM, and help built GM, only to have bean counters like Roger Smith, not push forward. Roger, ruined GM, single handedly. Could the UAW, been more flexible ? Sure. Both union and company made mistakes. Putting all the blame on one party is unfair and is irresponsible. I also blame our government for not being responsible enough to level the playing field with national healthcare, making the Asians admit the true value of their currency. The bottom line is the UAW, workers deserve their slice of the pie and our government could do more to make obtaining that slice of pie easier by not allowing foreign governments to have so many advantages against U.S. manufactors. I predict change is coming within the next 3 years. I finally think you will see a healthier GM, in 5 years because Congress will finally do something. It's going to also depend on who is president IMHO. If the right people get elected U.S. manufactoring could once again add a neccessary balance this economy needs. I believe like a portfolio you need diversity.
The currency values is a non-issue- if anything the dollar is due to weaken even further. The only way to protect the domestic industry is to place tarriffs on foreign products, even if produced in this country, which will never happen.
Tariffs have been proposed by both major party's. You can't tariff Toyota, for making a product here which is fine. I don't want that. I do want a Toyota, made in Japan tariffed if they aren't going to fix their currency. I'm tired of money made hear leaving. We see this with illegal aliens sending money back home. Toyota, does send some of their profits back home. Maybe someday Toyota, will be a american company and they could put their HQ, here in the U.S. I would for one be happy if that happened. I want them to keep building here but someday they will face cost issues as their young workforce ages. They already are beginning to see that already. They have smart people at Toyota, and will still make a profit but theose profits won't be quite as large as they are now unless they keep swallowing market share.
GM and Ford are going have to pull themselves up- healthcare reform would be a nice gift to them, though. Also not going to happen in time to make a difference for them.
Healthcare reform is 3 years away at the longest IMHO. If we have a repeat of what happened last Novemeber, it will happen. Healthcare, is a major cost obstacle for GM. A national plan would be like you said a gift. It would be a gift to Toyota's U.S. manufactoring plants also It would make the U.S. and even more friendlier place to do buisness which I think should be the goal of congress. I'd love to see the Japanese, Big 3 reinvest in this country to make us stronger economically. Car company's provide good paying jobs. The stronger our economy is the better as more people can afford the luxury of owning a new automobile. It's like a barometer of how really strong our economy is.
Not necessarily. Your view - which has been held by both the union and too many members of management for too long - is too simplistic.
A smart company will help its employees work smarter, not just harder.
The UAW has only agreed to make these changes in response to competitive pressure from non-union transplant operations based in the U.S.
Apparently, the UAW plants have not been as efficient as the transplants, as a whole, despite a few exceptions (GM's Lansing Grand River and Oshawa plants, if I recall correctly).
Otherwise, why would the UAW agree to make these changes now? Out of the goodness of its heart? That is clearly incorrect.
grbeck, man I just love ya pal. The UAW, yes have pressure on them to change. However their are some benefits like a huge reduction in injury's as the workforce is not getting carpal tunnel because they aren't repeating the same motion over and over again. The workers are happier as they have others to talk to. The ultimate goal is to get more plants built here in the U.S. Their might not be as many per plant but their could be someday more plants. If congress levels the playing field we could see these changes happen over a period of 5 years. The big 3 all have said they would like to build new plants here but need the UAW to be more flexible both in workrules and concessions in contract. I predict both will come to fruitition.
Incidentally, this morning I spoke with an employee of Alcoa. She told me that Alcoa has been implementing the Toyota production system, which requires the worker to take a more active role in assuring quality and improving efficiency. Previously, the company had used the Henry Ford system, which placed the worker in front of a machine and told him or her to follow orders and use no initiative whatsoever.
These systems were not all thought up by Toyota, pal. Some were thought up by U.S. manufactors including big 3 management. I will blame the UAW, for fighting against them for a long time. Dad, use to tell me these were the "bads" of the union but at the time the union thought they would lose thousands of members. Dad, said if they would of allow GM, gradual change perhaps they might of saved a few more jobs. However back then nobody saw the future and nobody thought it would get this bad.
Most of the workers now prefer the Toyota system. Those who didn't want to think on the job have left. Quality and productivity have improved, as has the competitiveness of the company.
That is very correct. When working with a team, they can push each other to accomplish a task. The people my pops talked to say they enjoy their work much more now.
The Toyota system is making major changes in America's businesses. Those who can't adapt - either companies or unions - will soon be swept away by the forces of history.
You are pretty much correct. The UAW, workers know change is or has come. It shouldn't have to be this violent though. We are allowing U.S. manufactors to compete with the Chinese who make a fraction compared to U.S. workers. They build it in China, and drop it in a shipping container. We will never be able to compete with these low wages thus we need to address this problem head-on otherwise our country will be as you said swept away.
Health care reform in 3 years? Tell me more! Since Medicare and Medicaid are the worst, I hope those plans are shut down. Many doctors won't accept these plans since their payments do not even cover the cost of the visit. Tell me there is no goverment involvement other than passing a law requiring all individuals to have insurance coverage. You need car insurance to drive, you should need health insurance to breath.
Did you read the article I linked to above? The guy made 6 figures.
This idea lives on despite all of the evidence against it. I come from a UAW family. None of them or their friends have ever met anyone near that bracket. They do believe that somewhere, sometime someone must have made that amount of money and they are all hoping that they are next in line. That it gets repeated and amplified and now has become an urban legend is also the way American cars ended up with a far worse reputation than evidence and experience indicated.
Never mind that history has shown that better product is the key. And the Germans don't seem to have any trouble competing, despite currency exchange rates.
The German's don't make cheap cars do they ? Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, BMW, aren't exactly cheap thus they have a little more flexibility when paying their workers those high wages. So what are you proposing ? GM, just keep Cadillac, Saab, and maybe Buick ? Only sell upper-end cars ????The solution IMHO is to level the playing field and see what happens.
What I support is having both union and management stop making excuses and focus on building a better product, which will require an overhaul of both corporate and union structures (not to mention attitudes).
Building better products is not just going to solve everything grbeck. It is more than just that. We are seeing change take place before us. Cars are way better now than just 5 years ago. Many people are giving GM, a second or third chance. I feel strongly that if you want U.S. manufactoring to return like I do the government is going to have to give them a incentive to invest here.
Of course, whining about other factors to divert attention from this and prevent any meaningful changes is one tactic to preserve the status quo.
That is not my intention. I'm merely pointing out facts. The fact is the playing field is unlevel and you think just building better products is the only solution. It cost money to build better products as it doesn't come cheap. GM, shouldn't have to play at such a disadvantage. Especially against a foreign company. I believe in protecting the people of this country from unfair trade. The Japanese, Chinese, which has been discussed many times and I'll say it again have structural trade barriers set in place to protect their company's from foreigners. Regardless if their people would buy our product or not doesn't mean we should just cave-in and give-up IMHO. That would be unamerican.
I'm a huge CAR fan. My motive is to have American car companies produce vehicles that rank among the best in the world, which won't happen until we have a major reformation of both corporate and union culture.
I'm a huge CAR fan also but I don't like the deck stacked against my home team. I guess you could care less if it is or not and just want better results in product. As I said before making a better product isn't free. If we can solve these other barriers then making a better product would be more affordable for the big 3. It still amazes me what they have done with a unlevel playing field and in some cases making a helluva a product that under cuts their competition by several thousands.
My motive is also to preserve maximum freedom of choice for consumers - the ones who really matter here.
So you think my proposals or motive is to make it more costly for consumers ? That is not true grbeck. I want the Japanese, to either have to lower their profit margin or raise prices. I think if we stick them in a corner they will choose to not make so much profit per unit. The profits they make on their imports are artificial anyways. Making an extra $13,000 on currency manipulation isn't going to raise the price of that Lexus LS 460. They won't be losing money on it either. They just won't be able to sock that extra dough in the bank which gives them such a huge advantage.
So far, no one on this thread has presented any compelling, accurate evidence to the contrary to alter those motives. I'm reading lots of mindless business bashing, a mind-boggling ignorance of how currency exchange rates really work, and too much regurgitation of the talking points spewed by Lou Dobbs and Solidarity.
I do not read the UAW solidarity magazine as I'm not a UAW member and every UAW, member relative to me lives in Michigan. So that is throwin' out the window. I do watch Mr. Lou Dobbs, often. You may not like Mr. Dobbs, but I respect his opinion very much. He wants to level the playing field. You seem to not care as you'd rather U.S. business go belly up if the Chinese or Japanese could save your wallet a buck. I'd rather pay a little more to support my country. I guess good or bad that is my patriotism. I can live without a little less money if I can spend my money on a product that gives another american a job. The american product is in most cases is built to a high standard. The chinese product I'd buy might save me a lot of money but will usually fall apart faster. It's like lemko, said when buying tools. He, like I question if they are metal. My wife baught a wrench from Walley World once and when I got it home it made me laugh so hard I almost couldn't put my kids shelves togeather. My regular tool set was being borrowed by my FIL, as he has more tools than anyone I know but somehow loses them by misplacing them. My FIL, I swear when he dies I will have sets of tools once we find them all.
I hate to break it to you, but Cadillac isn't the standard of the world, and there's no Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny or Santa Claus. Values beyond mindless acquisition, hah, that's rich...
"Or, looking at it another way, the UAW expects everyone else to buy an inferior product just so they can continue to pretend it's still 1965."
Not really. What we expect is that Americans will again realize that there are values beyond merely greed and profit. Those values, which come from our religious and historical experiences, have always acted as brakes at some point in our periodic embracing of mindless acquisition. The building of cities, communities, lives and families were American values that transcended mere profit. That it what is hoped for.
I'm in grbeck's camp, thank you very much, but I like Rocky too for his spirited views. I'm a VERY satified owner of two late model Camrys - a 2004 and a 2005.
210delray, You know I like you also pal. I need to hypnotize you and grbeck to buy GM auto's. tick, tock, tick, tock, tick, tock...Is it working? :P
Members receive up to 95 percent of their pay even if they don't work.
It's actually called subpay which is 90% of their pay and is either 100% or a certain percentage is paid by the UAW during slow periods. I believe it is 100% UAW paid. I'd have to ask dad. Dad, took a couple subpay periods in 2005 and 2006
Right now I own 1, a Honda Accord built in Ohio but I am interested in another 100% "made in the USA" vehicle, a Toyota Tundra.
Your accord is 60-65% domestic content. Yes made in Marysville, Ohio The Tundra is 100% american made. That's funny the domestic content on it's sticker says different? :confuse:
The part about remaining ignorant of the effects of "... currency manipulation, consumers, culture and practically everything else under the sun...." was a perfect illustration of why elitist American management and investors failed so miserably.
This idea lives on despite all of the evidence against it. I come from a UAW family. None of them or their friends have ever met anyone near that bracket. They do believe that somewhere, sometime someone must have made that amount of money and they are all hoping that they are next in line. That it gets repeated and amplified and now has become an urban legend is also the way American cars ended up with a far worse reputation than evidence and experience indicated.
The most money my father made was in 1985' when he worked 7 days a week 12 hours a day mostly and made $80K. When he retired he made a hair over $60K and retired as a Job Setter a skilled job making $29 and change an hour.
My Uncle who was a tool and die worker and made that big money lived at GM. His life for the last 30 years were GM, and the Detriot Redwings and the annual fishing trip. Outside of that well their is not much to speak of. But yeah he has a wad of cash in the bank even though he's had cancer twice in his arms from working with the chemicals at GM. No thanks !!!!!
Just like most of management I have dealt with over the years:) I started out in a UAW family and in typical youthful pattern decided that unions were bad. I started and ran my own businesses, ran other peoples businesses, and through a series of life events realized I was on the wrong side after all. (Forgive me for I have sinned:)) I am now a union organizer in the service industry and served for four years as President of my local.
The only way out of this in the long term seems to be democratization and organizing on an international scale, or we will all end up guest workers in our own homelands.
You mean the Taylor system (of which this is a variation) invented by an American and rejected by American management and then adopted by the Japanese decades ago?
Yes but the UAW, did reject it also as they feared they'd lose jobs. Mr. Taylor, was a smart man. Both union and management at that time never took it serious enough. I don't want to rehash the past but if adopted it might of saved some jobs in the long-term? The thing of it is what would GM's past management would of done with the extra profit they would of made. Would they not of bought failing company's ? Would Ford, not baught PAG. Would Chrysler baught Mercedes, instead of Vis Versa ????? We can only make assumptions but I deep down think the union workers would of gotten a small bonus (maybe) and the fat cats would of filled their pockets based on past history. :surprise:
I think the last group that thought this found they were a little premature - I think they were waving red flags or something. They did manage to bury 30 million or so, and still ended up in management!
My UAW family members and their fiends had quite a different experience. UAW worker suggestion were routinely rejected and even discouraged over the long term. My own experience in various management positions, and now as a union organizer has duplicated that same experience. The best quote I can give you from the CFO of an operation with a 200 million dollar operating and capital budget speaking to his subordinates is; "If we let them make suggestions then they will expect us to implement some of them". Almost all of his subordinates nodded their heads in agreement, only one or two rolled their eyes - they won't be promoted.
Workers will make miracles out of nothing if you let them
You do not see that anymore dude. It's like management will not take ordinary folks like me serious. I've made suggestions for my employer when I first started over equipment we used at my former employer to improve the job. You know you learn things a long the way from your past. Well instead of me getting a suggestion bonus which wasn't much like expired movie tickets as we say :P I got a $0.05 pocket book for writing notes for taking effort. 2 years later my suggestion came to fruition as they baught a few items of my suggestion but they said they cost to much to implement. FYI-They were tatical headsets. I'm a Security Police Officer and these made communications easier.
My father on his suggestions save GM probably $3-5 million in 27 years. My Grandfather on my mothers side saved GM, several million. Maybe $15-20 million in 35 years. Back in the 80's he was pulling down $120-180K with his 7/12 and suggestions. Grandpa, even though I only got to see him a dozen times that might be a stretch or so in my lifetime lived at GM, more than my great uncle. His ex-wife got most of it after he had a stroke. So again was it worth it ? No thanks......Luckily my fathers dad who also worked at GM, was more than enough grandpa for me. He is still alive and kickin' and spoiled me to death.
I always wondered what Toyota, gives for suggestions? My father's last big one he got a plastic flash-light which was made in China, from Delphi. :sick:
Probably not quite: An increase in the value of the yen by 20% against the dollar would also affect the value of all other major currencies and would have them also bidding on the same property which would drive the price up.
After thinking about what you said does make some sense.
Not really. What we expect is that Americans will again realize that there are values beyond merely greed and profit. Those values, which come from our religious and historical experiences, have always acted as brakes at some point in our periodic embracing of mindless acquisition. The building of cities, communities, lives and families were American values that transcended mere profit. That it what is hoped for
Do you think that the Japanese ended up in the position they now hold without having had to face fierce competition from the US? That was and is their golden dream - to be more American than Americans by engaging us in our best game. They have done very well but are facing their own internal difficulties now, especially the aging population and diminishing work force, which have been among the primary drivers of exporting entire industries.
Providing people with jobs was what the building of America was about at one time. We ran up against the opposite to this during the Reagan era when forced buy outs and the destruction of towns and cities became "business as usual". It is contrary to our spiritual and ethical roots and is now coming back to bite us in the butt. When I was building my business part of the gratification was in creating jobs and affecting peoples lives, as well as being a art of the community. Now we let our people die.
Wow, you have a conscious, heart, soul, the values that many americans have but don't use often enough.
I always love this elitist view of the world, it explains so much about the failure of management and the American business model. In owning my own businesses, as well as managing others, and for that matter every time I got a dividend check, I understood and appreciated that the workers had made the money for me. There are a million ideas floating around out there but without workers to make them happen, nothing happens but day dreams. The continued implicit and explicit denial of this reality by elitist management and investors continues to sap the moral spirit of American workers.
I 100% agree. Toyota, needs to appreciate the hard work their U.S. workforce gives them. I'm afraid that their comments about labor costs while they make recod profits will not sit well with some. This is an oppertunity fo the UAW, to capitalize on as if I was a Toyota, worker I'd fear my company might try to save a buck by cutting me down.
One thing that bothers me very much hypnosis44, is Toyota factory rats are living of the shirt tails of big 3 union workers. Do these americans not realize if it wasn't the threat of the union they would not enjoy the pay and benefits they have ???? Why can this guy (me) see that and their brains not ? If the UAW, disappeared tommorow Toyota, wouldn't hesitate to cut these peoples wages at least in half.
This plan will work IMHO. This is a fix it all system. I'm not trying to get political but John's system is the best one proposed for good service for the patient and a means to reduce costs for employers. Isn't that the ultimate goal to get good service and cut costs ?
Your point is ? I believe the guy did so what are you getting at ? He lived at Delphi, had no life but work and made a six-figure income. So ? :confuse: Is it impossible to make a six figure income as a Toyota, employee ?
Per Bloomberg: Average base pay at Toyota Japan is 350,580 yen per month, which is a shade under $3,000- given the weakness of th dollar, it's less than that in purchasing power parity to the worker- so the Japanese worker doesn't seem to make much more than the UAW emplyees- considering $20 an hour is already $40,000 a year.
You will never prevent a company from moving their production to a more cost effective environemnt. Either productivity must increase or wages come down, or people lose their jobs. It will probably even happen to the Japanese autoworkers at some point And the consumer benefits. The legacy costs of their UAW labor and health care are too much for the domestics to overcome at this point. Yes, if they had BMW and Mercedes level products and dedication to perceived quality, they might be able to overcome their disadvantadge, but they don't. The SUV/ Truck cash cow is over, and it may never return, and GM and Ford and Chrysler don't have the power, due to quality and image problems of their own making, to price their products with sufficient margin to make money.
We are here to discuss Toyota and again we're turning this into domestics vs imports and going off into the same tangents that always comes up.
I realize that these are issues that are related to a discussion of Toyota the company, but we simply cannot go off on a 40-50 post tangent that really isn't about the topic title.
Users have an expectation when clicking into a discussion on Toyota of finding a discussion about Toyota. When they drop into a full page of posts where the discussion is about nothing but the side issues, that's not doing anything to encourage them to join in.
Let's stick to the topic and remember to keep things in the context of discussing Toyota.
Maybe in 50 years, I'll appreciate Caddy's too. At the moment, Landau roofs, wire wheels and curb feelers do nothing to inspire "Driving enthusiasm" :sick:
Comments
Just for the geographically challenged amongst us which parts of Texas, Ontario, Michigan, Mississippi and Indiana are located in Japan? I can't find this on the map of Japan.
It's also important to realize that we're helping to bring develop a lot of countries out of poverty- The progress that places like South Korea, India and China have made is fantastic, largely because of their industrialization and manufacturing. It's a bad thing for people in this country who get laid off, but that's the price of progress- it helps to be highly specialized and able to do things that your competitors can't... unfortunately assembling cars is something that I don't think the US has any advantadge at, and really never has. The British lost their car industry with barely a peep.
"What people fail to realize is that by supporting these Japanese companies with their inflated yen, we are slowly leading our economy to the point of no return. Not only are these foreign companies taking their money back to their own country and investing it there, but they are also (along with China) slowly dictating the economy.
For those who refuse to believe (or don't care according to some posters) where their money goes as long as they get what they want, the countries who accumulate the most revenue will control the economies of the world. Japan and China have started this control already and they are accumulating money at an unbelieveable pace. It won't take to many more years until they have control and our economy and current prices for goods will never be the same. "
Now comes the initial crash ratings and the Tundra scores 4 stars for driver and passenger frontal safety ratings while the Ford and Chevy competitors are 5 stars for frontal collisions. This is a bit surprising given the visual length of the Tundra's hood.
Truck drivers expect to win in collisions. Good when others are great is a potential problem for Toyota. In real life rollover numbers may be more important as this is the weak spot for fullsize truck safety. Side and rollover ratings are not yet available on www.safercar.gov. (As of 3/21/07)
One thing is clear, even with a clean sheet design, Toyota's vaunted engineering did not deliver an across the board winner. The Tundra is competitive but not dominant and it has clear weaknesses. Build quality is still a traditional Toyota strength, but the Tundra will need to avoid the spat of recent Toyota recalls to claim that over the well assembled Silverado. Time will tell, both in sales and further safety rankings. At minimum Toyota truck buyers don't have to be embarrassed anymore. The Tundra is credible, just not perfect.
Wait till the IIHS tests the Tundra to see how it really fares!
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I believe the writer is a journalist. Journalist interview people and report statements made by those they interview. I expect that she also interviewed those that had counter statements. If not she failed at the primary objective of journalism which is to collect information and condense it for distribution. Do you really think the President of GM after driving GM into a wall is going to say "I confess - I did it"? No, he is going to say that those who have no say in management decisions actually made the decisions for management. In short "The workers did it, not me!"
Separately: Someone should write a piece about Micheline Maynard for Wikipedia - she is invisible there.
Not here, in fact I make sure (not always but I try) to buy cars built in the good ol US of A. Right now I own 1, a Honda Accord built in Ohio but I am interested in another 100% "made in the USA" vehicle, a Toyota Tundra.
I have no problem supporting the American labor force, in fact it's my preference, but I don't have to go to Detroit to prove it.
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This idea lives on despite all of the evidence against it. I come from a UAW family. None of them or their friends have ever met anyone near that bracket. They do believe that somewhere, sometime someone must have made that amount of money and they are all hoping that they are next in line. That it gets repeated and amplified and now has become an urban legend is also the way American cars ended up with a far worse reputation than evidence and experience indicated.
We went to the Honda dealer and all the cars we test drove were leaps and bounds ahead. We tried the Element SC, Fit, and Civic Si. All had impressive interiors, sporty handling, and lots of thoughtful design touches. Honda is really knocking them out of the park.
We also Tested a Mazda 3 and CX -7 and were also impressed with how good they both felt, drove, and looked.
Toyota seemed like they are really behind in terms of design and really need to add some passion into their lineup.
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Just like most of management I have dealt with over the years:) I started out in a UAW family and in typical youthful pattern decided that unions were bad. I started and ran my own businesses, ran other peoples businesses, and through a series of life events realized I was on the wrong side after all. (Forgive me for I have sinned:)) I am now a union organizer in the service industry and served for four years as President of my local.
The only way out of this in the long term seems to be democratization and organizing on an international scale, or we will all end up guest workers in our own homelands.
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You mean the Taylor system (of which this is a variation) invented by an American and rejected by American management and then adopted by the Japanese decades ago?
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"Those who can't adapt - either companies or unions - will soon be swept away by the forces of history."
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I think the last group that thought this found they were a little premature - I think they were waving red flags or something. They did manage to bury 30 million or so, and still ended up in management!
My UAW family members and their fiends had quite a different experience. UAW worker suggestion were routinely rejected and even discouraged over the long term. My own experience in various management positions, and now as a union organizer has duplicated that same experience. The best quote I can give you from the CFO of an operation with a 200 million dollar operating and capital budget speaking to his subordinates is; "If we let them make suggestions then they will expect us to implement some of them". Almost all of his subordinates nodded their heads in agreement, only one or two rolled their eyes - they won't be promoted.
Workers will make miracles out of nothing if you let them.
Your original statement about workers, which you left out of the above, was pure cant and targeted those least able to defend themselves or to affect changes in management. It was a cowardly and destructive statement. Statements similar in tone and nature have done more to damage Americans than a hundred terrorist attacks ever will. Was it Terrorism? Yes!! Were you having a bad moment? maybe.
Probably not quite: An increase in the value of the yen by 20% against the dollar would also affect the value of all other major currencies and would have them also bidding on the same property which would drive the price up.
They are being towed by slow tug financed by big money to be anchored off the Southern tip of Japan. There they will be made into an amusement park with the original bronze sculpture of the raising of our flag over Iwo Jima placed at its entrance. Invest now!
Not really. What we expect is that Americans will again realize that there are values beyond merely greed and profit. Those values, which come from our religious and historical experiences, have always acted as brakes at some point in our periodic embracing of mindless acquisition. The building of cities, communities, lives and families were American values that transcended mere profit. That it what is hoped for.
Do you think that the Japanese ended up in the position they now hold without having had to face fierce competition from the US? That was and is their golden dream - to be more American than Americans by engaging us in our best game. They have done very well but are facing their own internal difficulties now, especially the aging population and diminishing work force, which have been among the primary drivers of exporting entire industries.
Providing people with jobs was what the building of America was about at one time. We ran up against the opposite to this during the Reagan era when forced buy outs and the destruction of towns and cities became "business as usual". It is contrary to our spiritual and ethical roots and is now coming back to bite us in the butt. When I was building my business part of the gratification was in creating jobs and affecting peoples lives, as well as being a art of the community. Now we let our people die.
I always love this elitist view of the world, it explains so much about the failure of management and the American business model. In owning my own businesses, as well as managing others, and for that matter every time I got a dividend check, I understood and appreciated that the workers had made the money for me. There are a million ideas floating around out there but without workers to make them happen, nothing happens but day dreams. The continued implicit and explicit denial of this reality by elitist management and investors continues to sap the moral spirit of American workers.
Just a hopeful request.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Tell us how this statement is different from Bin Laden's about the 9/11 casualties?
Thanks
Hypnosis
Think about what you said as it makes no sense. The Japanese union workers back in Japan, make more money and get more sweetheart benefits from Toyota, than UAW workers. Do the union workers in Japan, not get pensions ? Yeah they have socialized medicine but the company does subsidize alot for it's employees. The union employee in Japan, gets discount housing, shops at discount stores, kids go to Toyota schools, and the company pays for some entertainment for it's employees. The UAW, are [non-permissible content removed] cats compared to the barbarack union in Japan, and compared to the European unions they are like ummmm 3-legged cats.
Dude, you seem like a nice guy but you need to do some research on this subject. Yeah, we get the propoganda from some members of our media. Did my family make a good living at GM, sure did. Did they deserve every nickel, sure did. They busted their [non-permissible content removed] for GM, and help built GM, only to have bean counters like Roger Smith, not push forward. Roger, ruined GM, single handedly. Could the UAW, been more flexible ? Sure. Both union and company made mistakes. Putting all the blame on one party is unfair and is irresponsible. I also blame our government for not being responsible enough to level the playing field with national healthcare, making the Asians admit the true value of their currency. The bottom line is the UAW, workers deserve their slice of the pie and our government could do more to make obtaining that slice of pie easier by not allowing foreign governments to have so many advantages against U.S. manufactors. I predict change is coming within the next 3 years. I finally think you will see a healthier GM, in 5 years because Congress will finally do something. It's going to also depend on who is president IMHO. If the right people get elected U.S. manufactoring could once again add a neccessary balance this economy needs. I believe like a portfolio you need diversity.
The currency values is a non-issue- if anything the dollar is due to weaken even further. The only way to protect the domestic industry is to place tarriffs on foreign products, even if produced in this country, which will never happen.
Tariffs have been proposed by both major party's. You can't tariff Toyota, for making a product here which is fine. I don't want that. I do want a Toyota, made in Japan tariffed if they aren't going to fix their currency. I'm tired of money made hear leaving. We see this with illegal aliens sending money back home. Toyota, does send some of their profits back home. Maybe someday Toyota, will be a american company and they could put their HQ, here in the U.S.
I would for one be happy if that happened. I want them to keep building here but someday they will face cost issues as their young workforce ages. They already are beginning to see that already. They have smart people at Toyota, and will still make a profit but theose profits won't be quite as large as they are now unless they keep swallowing market share.
GM and Ford are going have to pull themselves up- healthcare reform would be a nice gift to them, though. Also not going to happen in time to make a difference for them.
Healthcare reform is 3 years away at the longest IMHO. If we have a repeat of what happened last Novemeber, it will happen. Healthcare, is a major cost obstacle for GM. A national plan would be like you said a gift. It would be a gift to Toyota's U.S. manufactoring plants also
Rocky
A smart company will help its employees work smarter, not just harder.
The UAW has only agreed to make these changes in response to competitive pressure from non-union transplant operations based in the U.S.
Apparently, the UAW plants have not been as efficient as the transplants, as a whole, despite a few exceptions (GM's Lansing Grand River and Oshawa plants, if I recall correctly).
Otherwise, why would the UAW agree to make these changes now? Out of the goodness of its heart? That is clearly incorrect.
grbeck, man I just love ya pal.
Incidentally, this morning I spoke with an employee of Alcoa. She told me that Alcoa has been implementing the Toyota production system, which requires the worker to take a more active role in assuring quality and improving efficiency. Previously, the company had used the Henry Ford system, which placed the worker in front of a machine and told him or her to follow orders and use no initiative whatsoever.
These systems were not all thought up by Toyota, pal. Some were thought up by U.S. manufactors including big 3 management. I will blame the UAW, for fighting against them for a long time. Dad, use to tell me these were the "bads" of the union but at the time the union thought they would lose thousands of members. Dad, said if they would of allow GM, gradual change perhaps they might of saved a few more jobs. However back then nobody saw the future and nobody thought it would get this bad.
Most of the workers now prefer the Toyota system. Those who didn't want to think on the job have left. Quality and productivity have improved, as has the competitiveness of the company.
That is very correct. When working with a team, they can push each other to accomplish a task. The people my pops talked to say they enjoy their work much more now.
The Toyota system is making major changes in America's businesses. Those who can't adapt - either companies or unions - will soon be swept away by the forces of history.
You are pretty much correct. The UAW, workers know change is or has come. It shouldn't have to be this violent though. We are allowing U.S. manufactors to compete with the Chinese who make a fraction compared to U.S. workers. They build it in China, and drop it in a shipping container. We will never be able to compete with these low wages thus we need to address this problem head-on otherwise our country will be as you said swept away.
Rocky
This idea lives on despite all of the evidence against it. I come from a UAW family. None of them or their friends have ever met anyone near that bracket. They do believe that somewhere, sometime someone must have made that amount of money and they are all hoping that they are next in line. That it gets repeated and amplified and now has become an urban legend is also the way American cars ended up with a far worse reputation than evidence and experience indicated.
The German's don't make cheap cars do they ? Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, BMW, aren't exactly cheap thus they have a little more flexibility when paying their workers those high wages. So what are you proposing ? GM, just keep Cadillac, Saab, and maybe Buick ? Only sell upper-end cars ????The solution IMHO is to level the playing field and see what happens.
What I support is having both union and management stop making excuses and focus on building a better product, which will require an overhaul of both corporate and union structures (not to mention attitudes).
Building better products is not just going to solve everything grbeck. It is more than just that. We are seeing change take place before us. Cars are way better now than just 5 years ago. Many people are giving GM, a second or third chance. I feel strongly that if you want U.S. manufactoring to return like I do the government is going to have to give them a incentive to invest here.
Of course, whining about other factors to divert attention from this and prevent any meaningful changes is one tactic to preserve the status quo.
That is not my intention. I'm merely pointing out facts. The fact is the playing field is unlevel and you think just building better products is the only solution. It cost money to build better products as it doesn't come cheap. GM, shouldn't have to play at such a disadvantage. Especially against a foreign company. I believe in protecting the people of this country from unfair trade. The Japanese, Chinese, which has been discussed many times and I'll say it again have structural trade barriers set in place to protect their company's from foreigners. Regardless if their people would buy our product or not doesn't mean we should just cave-in and give-up IMHO. That would be unamerican.
I'm a huge CAR fan. My motive is to have American car companies produce vehicles that rank among the best in the world, which won't happen until we have a major reformation of both corporate and union culture.
I'm a huge CAR fan also but I don't like the deck stacked against my home team. I guess you could care less if it is or not and just want better results in product. As I said before making a better product isn't free. If we can solve these other barriers then making a better product would be more affordable for the big 3. It still amazes me what they have done with a unlevel playing field and in some cases making a helluva a product that under cuts their competition by several thousands.
My motive is also to preserve maximum freedom of choice for consumers - the ones who really matter here.
So you think my proposals or motive is to make it more costly for consumers ? That is not true grbeck. I want the Japanese, to either have to lower their profit margin or raise prices. I think if we stick them in a corner they will choose to not make so much profit per unit. The profits they make on their imports are artificial anyways. Making an extra $13,000 on currency manipulation isn't going to raise the price of that Lexus LS 460. They won't be losing money on it either. They just won't be able to sock that extra dough in the bank which gives them such a huge advantage.
So far, no one on this thread has presented any compelling, accurate evidence to the contrary to alter those motives. I'm reading lots of mindless business bashing, a mind-boggling ignorance of how currency exchange rates really work, and too much regurgitation of the talking points spewed by Lou Dobbs and Solidarity.
I do not read the UAW solidarity magazine as I'm not a UAW member and every UAW, member relative to me lives in Michigan. So that is throwin' out the window. I do watch Mr. Lou Dobbs, often. You may not like Mr. Dobbs, but I respect his opinion very much. He wants to level the playing field. You seem to not care as you'd rather U.S. business go belly up if the Chinese or Japanese could save your wallet a buck. I'd rather pay a little more to support my country. I guess good or bad that is my patriotism. I can live without a little less money if I can spend my money on a product that gives another american a job. The american product is in most cases is built to a high standard. The chinese product I'd buy might save me a lot of money but will usually fall apart faster. It's like lemko, said when buying tools. He, like I question if they are metal. My wife baught a wrench from Walley World once and when I got it home it made me laugh so hard I almost couldn't put my kids shelves togeather. My regular tool set was being borrowed by my FIL, as he has more tools than anyone I know but somehow loses them by misplacing them. My FIL, I swear when he dies I will have sets of tools once we find them all.
Rocky
"Or, looking at it another way, the UAW expects everyone else to buy an inferior product just so they can continue to pretend it's still 1965."
Not really. What we expect is that Americans will again realize that there are values beyond merely greed and profit. Those values, which come from our religious and historical experiences, have always acted as brakes at some point in our periodic embracing of mindless acquisition. The building of cities, communities, lives and families were American values that transcended mere profit. That it what is hoped for.
Rocky
I loves his articles. I guess grbeck, will say I'm misinformed because I read his talking points also. :P
Rocky
210delray, You know I like you also pal. I need to hypnotize you and grbeck to buy GM auto's. tick, tock, tick, tock, tick, tock...Is it working? :P
Rocky
It's actually called subpay which is 90% of their pay and is either 100% or a certain percentage is paid by the UAW during slow periods. I believe it is 100% UAW paid. I'd have to ask dad. Dad, took a couple subpay periods in 2005 and 2006
Rocky
Rocky
Your accord is 60-65% domestic content. Yes made in Marysville, Ohio The Tundra is 100% american made. That's funny the domestic content on it's sticker says different? :confuse:
Rocky
Couldn't agree more.
Rocky
The most money my father made was in 1985' when he worked 7 days a week 12 hours a day mostly and made $80K. When he retired he made a hair over $60K and retired as a Job Setter a skilled job making $29 and change an hour.
My Uncle who was a tool and die worker and made that big money lived at GM. His life for the last 30 years were GM, and the Detriot Redwings and the annual fishing trip. Outside of that well their is not much to speak of. But yeah he has a wad of cash in the bank even though he's had cancer twice in his arms from working with the chemicals at GM. No thanks !!!!!
Rocky
The only way out of this in the long term seems to be democratization and organizing on an international scale, or we will all end up guest workers in our own homelands.
Wow......I love ya even more now !!!! :P
Rocky
Yes but the UAW, did reject it also as they feared they'd lose jobs. Mr. Taylor, was a smart man. Both union and management at that time never took it serious enough. I don't want to rehash the past but if adopted it might of saved some jobs in the long-term? The thing of it is what would GM's past management would of done with the extra profit they would of made. Would they not of bought failing company's ? Would Ford, not baught PAG. Would Chrysler baught Mercedes, instead of Vis Versa ????? We can only make assumptions but I deep down think the union workers would of gotten a small bonus (maybe) and the fat cats would of filled their pockets based on past history. :surprise:
I think the last group that thought this found they were a little premature - I think they were waving red flags or something. They did manage to bury 30 million or so, and still ended up in management!
I'm not following you ? I might be a lil tired.
Rocky
Workers will make miracles out of nothing if you let them
You do not see that anymore dude. It's like management will not take ordinary folks like me serious. I've made suggestions for my employer when I first started over equipment we used at my former employer to improve the job. You know you learn things a long the way from your past. Well instead of me getting a suggestion bonus which wasn't much like expired movie tickets as we say :P I got a $0.05 pocket book for writing notes for taking effort. 2 years later my suggestion came to fruition as they baught a few items of my suggestion but they said they cost to much to implement. FYI-They were tatical headsets. I'm a Security Police Officer and these made communications easier.
My father on his suggestions save GM probably $3-5 million
in 27 years. My Grandfather on my mothers side saved GM, several million. Maybe $15-20 million in 35 years. Back in the 80's he was pulling down $120-180K with his 7/12 and suggestions. Grandpa, even though I only got to see him a dozen times that might be a stretch or so in my lifetime lived at GM, more than my great uncle. His ex-wife got most of it after he had a stroke. So again was it worth it ? No thanks......Luckily my fathers dad who also worked at GM, was more than enough grandpa for me. He is still alive and kickin' and spoiled me to death.
I always wondered what Toyota, gives for suggestions? My father's last big one he got a plastic flash-light which
was made in China, from Delphi. :sick:
Rocky
After thinking about what you said does make some sense.
Rocky
You are very impressive.
Rocky
Yes Sir
Rocky
Wow, you have a conscious, heart, soul, the values that many americans have but don't use often enough.
Rocky
I 100% agree. Toyota, needs to appreciate the hard work their U.S. workforce gives them. I'm afraid that their comments about labor costs while they make recod profits will not sit well with some. This is an oppertunity fo the UAW, to capitalize on as if I was a Toyota, worker I'd fear my company might try to save a buck by cutting me down.
One thing that bothers me very much hypnosis44, is Toyota factory rats are living of the shirt tails of big 3 union workers. Do these americans not realize if it wasn't the threat of the union they would not enjoy the pay and benefits they have ???? Why can this guy (me) see that and their brains not ? If the UAW, disappeared tommorow Toyota, wouldn't hesitate to cut these peoples wages at least in half.
Rocky
This plan will work IMHO. This is a fix it all system. I'm not trying to get political but John's system is the best one proposed for good service for the patient and a means to reduce costs for employers. Isn't that the ultimate goal to get good service and cut costs ?
Rocky
Rocky
Cadillac, is the standard of the world in my world.
Rocky
You will never prevent a company from moving their production to a more cost effective environemnt. Either productivity must increase or wages come down, or people lose their jobs. It will probably even happen to the Japanese autoworkers at some point And the consumer benefits. The legacy costs of their UAW labor and health care are too much for the domestics to overcome at this point. Yes, if they had BMW and Mercedes level products and dedication to perceived quality, they might be able to overcome their disadvantadge, but they don't. The SUV/ Truck cash cow is over, and it may never return, and GM and Ford and Chrysler don't have the power, due to quality and image problems of their own making, to price their products with sufficient margin to make money.
I realize that these are issues that are related to a discussion of Toyota the company, but we simply cannot go off on a 40-50 post tangent that really isn't about the topic title.
Users have an expectation when clicking into a discussion on Toyota of finding a discussion about Toyota. When they drop into a full page of posts where the discussion is about nothing but the side issues, that's not doing anything to encourage them to join in.
Let's stick to the topic and remember to keep things in the context of discussing Toyota.