since I drive a Mitsubishi Lancer GTS from the model year 2008 can someone tell me any recalls from Mitsubishi in the last, oh, say, 15 years? OK, the biggest and baddest of the best recalls from Mitsu.
I'm just diggin' my little race car here from the SW desert of Arizona, kind of freaked out that Toyota is basically imploding into itself here during the past several months.
Dudes, this whole lesson in humility is gonna cost these Japanese friends ever so dearly before it's done. Lawsuits?
What about the cost of all these recalls? :surprise:
What about lost sales?
What about, oh, I don't know, Toyota's credibility any more? Seriously, folks. :sick:
Has anyone noticed how quickly toyota embraced the Prius's shortcomings in brakes and is agonizing over how to recall those that they were ignoring earlier for fixes, even though a running fix had been made in production?
Could this be a politician-like tactic? "Watch this over here while we get publicity for recalling the Prius and don't look at that part of the earlier problem which is ELECTRONIC or COMPUTER related. Just keep your eyes over on the Prius brakes. Forget about the unexplained runaways that are a large fraction of our earlier problems that we tried to hide for years," says the magician.
Huh? I thought it was the owner at fault for now braking properly? I cannot imagine a problem like this with a Toyota, let alone a Prius. That darn media is just trying to make something out of nothing.
"They're all out there looking to take market share from Toyota."
And they still have to offer a big bribe. That's sad. Toyota has stopped making many models, recalled millions of vehicles and has all of this daily bad publicity and the other makes still can't compete without offering a big-bucks bounty on Toyota trade-ins.
According to a new report, federal safety investigators allegedly agreed to exclude only the most severe cases of “runaway Toyotas” after the intervention of a former safety official, since hired to be a Washington, D.C. representative for Toyota.
According to a new investigation by ABC News, the 2004 federal investigation of computer-based throttle problems never reviewed any cases where the unintended sudden acceleration lasted more than one to two seconds – or any cases in which the driver attempted to brake. Because of these odd protocols, essentially any high-speed cases were completely ruled out from federal investigation.
Since the 2004 investigation, there have been five other similar investigations with the same limitations placed on federal probing. The most recent case involved a Lexus model with unintended and uncontrollable acceleration in 2007.
Edgar Heiskell, an attorney filing a suit against Toyota regarding a deadly Camry crash which took place in Detroit, said, “It’s beyond explanation. I have not seen an explanation that makes sense.”
According to internal memos and court testimony analyzed by ABS News investigators, the investigations were extremely limited in their scope, that is, after negotiations involving former safety inspector-turned Toyota representative.
According to a 2004 NHTSA memo, “Longer durations incidents involving uncontrollable accelerations” were deemed to be “not within the scope of the investigation.”
According to ABC News, that memo was written on March 23, 2004, not long after Scott Yon, a NHTSA official, met with two former NHTSA colleagues that now work for Toyota, including Chris Santucci, who left NHTSA six months prior, according to his testimony.
“We discussed the scope, ” Santucci testified. “I think it worked out well for both the agency and for Toyota.”
>According to ABC News, that memo was written on March 23, 2004, not long after Scott Yon, a NHTSA official, met with two former NHTSA colleagues that now work for Toyota, including Chris Santucci, who left NHTSA six months prior, according to his testimony.
That is incriminating. Heads need to roll at NHTSA and is Santucci at risk of criminal neglect for having effected such a limitation, to toyota's advantage, at NHSTA?
Bulent Ezal and his wife were driving their 2005 Toyota Camry in central California when disaster struck. (ABC News)
Bulent Ezal says the Toyota Camry suddenly took off, causing them to plunge over this 100 foot cliff into the Pacific ocean. (ABC News )
Toyota says the accident was caused by Ezal mistakenly pushing the gas pedal. Ezal strongly denies this and says his foot was "absolutely, positively on the brake." (ABC News)
Bulent Ezal, seen here being rescued, barely survived the accident, but his wife of 46 years was killed. (ABC News)
What kind of road where they on? It looks awful. The pavement is being undermined and there isn't any guiderail just a chain link fence. I would think who ever owns that road would be in for a large lawsuit.
Not sure, I just feel so bad for the friends and family involved It is bad enough for something like that to happen, but then the way Toyota is handling it...how pathetic. :sick:
revit, alright already, we get it you hate Toyota, your not the only person; you don't have to keep posting every hour with pictures of people hurt and at this point your just repeating yourself
I'm not excusing Toyota for what they did and they most def were in the wrong with the cover-up and everything but they are going to pay a hefty price for it, you don't have to keep bad mouthing the situation - I think its bad enough to begin with
Get a hold of yourself - its just a car company and they are going to pay figuratively and literally for their incompetence - we get it - you don't have to keep reminding us of it! take a chill pill and move on!
there is more to life then beating a dead horse when it comes to Toyota
4 to 5 percent of additional depreciation---that's the bad news for current owners of Toyota cars.
Automotive industry insiders from Kelly Blue Book and ALG believe that because of Toyota's current problems with sticking accelerators, trapped floormats and braking problems with the companies halo car (the Prius) residual values of used Toyota's will drop between 4 and 5 percent.
"The potential demand lost as a result of these actions becomes more and more difficult to recover with each passing day," according to KBB. "In addition to a drop in consumer demand for Toyota, there is a growing supply of used Toyota vehicles that could put further downward pressure on values."
Good, my lease is up in a few months so maybe I'll be able to strike a bargain on a new Toyota. I have faith once this mess is cleaned up Toyota will come out of it better than ever.
OK, I'll go out on a limb on this one. Usually our gracious hosts keep an outstanding hand on these forums, but they have dropped the ball on this one allowing revit to continually post gruesome one sided stories that only bleeding heart ambulance chasing lawyers present to sympathetic juries.
we've heard the bad about Toyota and I have no problem about hearing the bad but your beating this thing to death by constantly posting pictures, stats, and assumptions to put Toyota down
Your posting so much your really starting to make yourself look less creditable and ridiculous and more obsessed and crazy about Toyota then actually posting relevant information; instead of continuing your obsessive compulsive bashing of Toyota and to follow your point about hearing the good things and the bad about something, why don't you post what would be good for Toyota to do to come out of this mess so that they don't make their sales and residual values take too much of a dive!
continually post gruesome one sided stories that only bleeding heart ambulance chasing lawyers present to sympathetic juries.
Outside of Edmund's forum, have you been follow this issue at all on Fox News, CNN, the newspapers, etc? Just because you disagree with my views, but no means should you view someone's messages as one side? Gruesome? Imagine how the family and friends involved with these incidences must feel. My heart goes out to them and I would think others could have at least an ounce of sympathy. And for the ones now experiencing the problem that have been fighting with Toyota for months just to make sure their car is safe, I wonder if you would also call them "bleeding heart ambulance chasing lawyers". Toyota has and continues to make wrong decisions here.
So the question is which Toyota model is next? What will the problem be? This is people's lives you are dealing with and I am astonished at the lack of caring from one human being to another. :confuse:
no one is trying to downplay the loss of life that occurred in these events caused by Toyota's stupidity but for the last time, we know that people have died and we know that people have been hurt by this
but your obsessive and crazy about this situation with Toyota, get a hold of yourself man!!!! its bad enough what happened but we don't need you coming on here every hour posting pictures/stats, etc going over and over and over this story and repeating yourself to make a point
Toyota screwed-up big time, they are going to pay for it - enough is enough already!!!
step away from your computer, splash some cold water on your face, go out for a walk, and move on!!!
Ford quietly fixed their hybrid brake problem and no one seems to be blowing the issue up or trashing Ford over it. link title
To my knowlege this brake problem reported with Toyota and Ford hybrids is unique to the regenerative braking switching to conventional braking during times of abrupt maneuvers such as when hitting potholes or bumps. I don't know of any reports of any lives lost due to this braking issue in the Prius. The brakes, from my understanding, are not failing to stop or slow. Thus far, at least this is more of a brake feel problem rather than a safety problem unless the driver handles it improperly when experiencing it. Correct me if I'm wrong. That's not to say that it isn't a problem or doesn't require a fix.
anyway, since this is the Toyota on the Mend forum, what do you guys think Toyota's going to have to do to fully correct this problem so that they can restore public faith in their products?
While it is absolutely ridiculous how they initially handled this and their suppose cover-up of these safety issues, I have been impressed with Toyota's response to the problems since they were caught last month and are now beginning to fix the vehicles in the recall; I have personally seen my local Toyota dealer' service department open 24/7 with repairing vehicles in the recall
I think this massive public scrutiny over their vehicles quality and safety issues will really get the fire burning under their [non-permissible content removed] that the quality of their vehicles has been slacking off the last several model years and that companies like Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, and Ford have surpassed their quality in many regards; the next gen Camry redesign, which should be for 2012 model year will be a big tell all if Toyota got the message that they screwed up royally on this one!
I do have to agree that it is a sad state of affairs that it took people to loose their lives and to be caught red handed for Toyota to admit their was a problem but unfortunately in most matters of life, people have to die in order for something to be done, I wish it wasn't that way but unfortunately it is
Hopefully, this thing with Toyota will be a big slap in the face to all the other auto makers that the US consumer, gov't, and general public for that matter will not put up with deceit and lies when it comes to car quality and safety!
I have a feeling Toyota will pull through this and only take a loss/decline for the immediate future and not go down the tubes like pre-bailout/bankruptcy Chrysler and GM did, but unfortunately only time will tell!
In what way was your 2004 Camry significantly better than your 1997 Camry? My cousin likes her 98 Camry better than her 2007 model.
The 2004 is part of the 2002-06 generation, so it differs from the 2007 model. What I like better comparing the 2004 with the 1997 (both with 4 cylinders):
Timing chain instead of belt Side curtain airbags and side thorax airbags (optional in 2004, n/a in 1997) Long-life coolant Long-interval spark plugs (120K vs. 60K miles) Standard daytime running lights (n/a until '99) Larger trunk Larger back seat 8-way power driver seat standard in LE (vs. 6-way manual in '97 LE) CD player Gas strut to hold up hood instead of prop rod.
There's no easy way to tabulate all of the Mitsubishi recalls in the last 15 years without searching the NHTSA website for all Mitsubishi year, make, and models going back that far. I'm sure you'll find many, just as is the case for all manufacturers. In fact, Mitsu was involved in a serious scandal in Japan maybe a decade ago when it was found top executives were hiding defect information from the Japanese government. Several of these execs had to resign. I don't believe any cars sold in the US were affected.
One more thing: because Mitsu's sales have been so low in the last 5 or 6 years in the US, there would be far fewer units involved in the event of any recall.
Are you talking about earlier Priuses (which are NOT involved in brake troubles, but rather the floormat interference problem) or all of the other Toyotas in involved in either gas pedal recall?
If you insinuating smoke and mirrors, I have to say no, manufacturers usually are much quicker in containing damage to late-model cars where a relatively small number are defective. Some of these are caught on the assembly line, before any consumers have taken delivery. Just look at the NHTSA recalls database.
Now where defects stretch out for many years, it generally takes a manufacturer much longer to recall all of the affected vehicles -- an example of this is the longstanding Ford recall for defective cruise control switches that can short-circuit and start fires.
Do I recall that Toyota accepted money from the Japanese government when sales were way down within the last year to help the company?
I believe all Japanese companies were offered loan money, but I don't remember if all companies took up the offer. In any case, the loan amounts paled in comparison to the US government's bailouts of GM and Chrysler.
Why are you sensationalizing this case? If anything, reading the detailed description of the crash, at least at face value, implicates the husband as stepping on the gas pedal instead of the brakes.
Now I wasn't there, nor did I investigate the crash, but this appears to be a classic case of pedal misapplication, just like with the 80s Audi 5000s.
It wasn't a road at all, but rather the parking lot of a restaurant overlooking the Pacific. The driver was supposedly maneuvering his car into a parking space, when it suddenly took off through the fence and over the cliff. Note that the driver is an older person, and seniors tend to be more susceptible to stepping on the wrong pedal. (I'm no spring chicken myself, so don't call me a young whippersnapper!)
While the 2005 Camry has drive-by-wire, it has a completely different gas pedal assembly from the later cars being recalled. (I should know -- I have a 2005 and a 2004 Camry.) I've never experienced so much as a slight surge from either car in combined usage of over 114,000 miles.
I think Toyota will pull through this okay in the long run (or even within a few years). How long did people stay away from Ford because of the Explorer rollover/Firestone tire issue? A lot more people were killed (about 270) from a far smaller population of vehicles. I think Ford/Firestone was the biggest recall scandal since this Toyota problem surfaced.
Now any death is one too many, but perspective is needed. Even if you believe that charlatan Sean Kane, 19 deaths have been attributed to Toyota sudden acceleration over the last 10-11 years. This includes ALL cases, including the ones where pedal misapplication may have been the main cause.
Remember that every day on US highways, the sad truth is that 100 people on average die. And even more tragically, we know through scientific studies how to stop many of those deaths, but don't have the political will to do so. (There are other discussions on Edmunds devoted to the last point, so I'll stop here.)
>I believe all Japanese companies were offered loan money,
I thought I had read that fact in another discussion, probably where one of the trolls was attacking GM for taking government money. I did not know amounts involved. but it makes sense, other than currency exchange problems hitting the company unexpectedly, that Toyota had a larger rainy day fund and needed less help.
how many explorers do you think were affected by the explorer/firestone fiasco? definitely over 4 million for that 1 model. that was traceable to hardware. did it affect focus, taurus, escape. expedition, and f150?
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
I test drove a 2007 GL320 and did not like their 7 speed transmission. I also did not like the price of $83k for a used (12k miles) vehicle. New Diesels were still illegal in the People's Socialist Republic of CA at the time I bought this Sequoia. The fact that I got $10k off of MSRP on this vehicle was a factor. I also liked driving it better than the GL320. Since I have test driven the X5 diesel that is a rocket compared to my Sequoia. I plan to test drive the Q7 TDI soon. At least I own the last of the decent Sequoias. Should make it easier to get my price when and if I decide to sell it. No recalls or hazardous complaints compared to most Toyota models. I think by the time they built the 2007 model Sequoia they had fixed all the issues. So maybe after 7 years into a Toyota model it is safe to buy them.
Toyota would love to be able to say their problem is hardware. So much easier to fix. I think the evidence points to software/firmware. Hopefully the NHTSA does not let them off the hook with that kludged shim fix. At the very least they should replace the poorly designed throttle control unit. It is only a $15 part, they are going cheap John with a 2 cent fix. That does not say much for Toyota leadership.
>At the very least they should replace the poorly designed throttle control unit. It is only a $15 part, they are going cheap John with a 2 cent fix.
There's a youtube fix using a nickle instead of the shim provided graciously by toyota. So I guess we should call it a 5-cent fix?
BUT that's only for the few car which had developed what turned out not to be metal corrosion due to moisture condensing on it while next to a heater blowing out hot air
instead it was cheap plastic that adsorbs moisture and deteriorates. Talk about cheaping out.
I think most people expected to have the entire pedal, including a different plastic for the friction component, replaced as part of the recall. I wonder if anyone is demanding an upgraded pedal put in instead of the one with the plastic that deteriorates under high moisture conditions--such as living in hot humid climates. Or Ohio in summertime.
I still believe toyota already knew the flaw in their system of firmware/software. I still suspect they hoped to reflash as many as they could with the add on computer-based brake pedal emergency override, and, my personal opinion, is they intended to reflash the flaw in their software.
Now there's too much attention on it. And I suspect someone has already archived a computer system for comparison if they do reflash with more than a brake override.
Two area attorneys are already on the class action suit sleighride, Stan and Eric. Stan Chesley is a classic early class action suit originator. Eric Deters may be familiar to many from the OReilly show where he talked about successfully defending a female teacher who suffered the attentions of a high school student.
This class action suit is all downhill for the sleigh. Won't even need a team to pull the sleigh. This will be like watching the ski slopes at Vancouver in the Winter Olympics.
If you are an Explorer fan which I assume by your name then you should be aware of the facts. It's been 9-10 years and I don't have the details on the top of my head. I recall a report on 60 minutes if you can find the archives. I did a quick search and found many references. How about this report, link title
6.5 million tires. assuming there were 4 tires per vehicles, um the math is getting fuzzy. i really enjoyed the pirelli scorpions i got for my EXPEDITION under the same recall for $35 as a result of swapping out my firestone a/t's after 35k miles.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Toyota proponents really like to blame the UA on the drivers. Yet they completely blame Ford/Firestone for the rollovers. A couple things come to mind. One as someone that has owned SUVs since 1964, I don't drive them like I do a Porsche or even a Passat. Every vehicle has some kind of limitations. The drivers need to drive within those parameters. You want a soft tire squishy ride don't drive like you are at Indy. I see people passing me on the highway at speeds that are totally unsafe for a given vehicle. I know they were not all victims of UA. I would never drive a little econobox like a Yaris or Fit at 75 MPH, yet I see all those little Asian death traps screaming down the highways. Too many drivers do not know the limitations of their vehicles.
Only after it was brought to light after CR reported issues with a Fusion that they were testing then said they knew of the problem. Sounds like Toyota but with out the fan fare .
Yet they completely blame Ford/Firestone for the rollovers.
Because Ford Explorers called for dangerously lower tire pressures to improve ride quality. I ignored them on my Explorer and kept them 4 - 6 psi higher than the recommended value and the car bobbed and bounced all over the place but I'd rather have that than have squishy tires that folded over like pancakes at the slightest wheel correction. The Explorer was designed with a higher Center of Gravity to begin with which affected these conditions the most.
I put a majority of the blame on Ford with that one.
Toyota will be announcing a recall for the 2010 Prius in the U.S. market within a few days, coming just days after the same recall was announced in Japan. The recall will address a confirmed problem in which the Prius can suffer momentary failure of the ABS braking system while driving over pot holes or rough surfaces. :sick:
According to early reports, the recall would only affect the 2010 model year of the Prius – Toyota has sold 103,000 units in the U.S., 176,000 in Japan, and a grand total of 311,000 worldwide. Of those, not all will be affected by the recall as Toyota implemented a change on the assembly line in late January after discovering the problem, but prior to publicly considering a recall.
Because Toyota implemented a change in the brake design, only 277,000 of the 311,000 units sold will likely be subject to recalls – with 37,000 located on U.S. soil. Although the source who spoke to the NY Times about the imminent Prius recall did not mention the Lexus HS250h, Toyota has confirmed that it is also looking into the HS250h and Sai model (Japan only) as they share the braking system with the Prius.
According to NHTSA reports, the 2010 Prius has logged more than twice as many complaints than the sum of all other 2010 Toyota models combined – including the models included in the latest recalls. High complaint rates are not new to the Prius, however, as from 2004 to 2009 the Prius received 2,310 driver complaints with NHTSA, with the rest of the Toyota lineup garnering 2,340 complaints during that period.
Toyota says that the likely fix will be a software re-flash, but it has yet to confirm a definite solution for the vehicles already on the road. Toyota to announce 2010 Prius brake recall for U.S.
Toyota Motor Corp’s Lexus and Scion brand have been pretty safe when it comes to the company’s recent surge of recalls; however, Toyota is now looking into see if its Lexus HS Hybrid has the same braking issues announced in the Prius last week. :sick:
“They have very similar braking systems and we are currently checking whether they have the same problem,” Takeuchi said Monday in Japan. “Nothing has been decided.”
Toyota has plans to announce a solution for the Prius early this week, both in the U.S. and overseas. It is unclear whether Toyota will issue a recall or voluntary safety campaign, but Japanese media says Toyota will most likely recall the Prius in some 60 countries.
Some dealers said that the have been advised that the Toyota Prius would be recalled but are not allowed to notify customers until the recall has been announced. :confuse: :confuse: Most dealers are already receiving software upgrades to fix the Prius’ antilock braking system.
There is an American Company that cares less about the safety of their customers than Toyota (if you can believe that). Consumer Reports (a biased magazine) built its reputation and customer base by steering Americans away from domestic autos. For years now they have recommended Toyota’s regardless of performance and safety. They built almost a cult following customer base that blindly believed the big three (Toyota, Honda & Nissan) were the only manufacturer that produced safe reliable vehicles. Consumer Reports fed their cult following to sell more magazines. They trashed Ford, GM & Chrysler every opportunity and put Toyota on a pedestal. If you read CRs forums you would understand this is exactly what CR’s customer base (cult) wanted to hear. Consumer Reports has long ignored the safety of Toyota vehicles. For example: CR’s two highest scoring (score derived by auto testers) vehicles (Lexus LS460 & Toyota Avalon) actually posted the lowest scores on CR’s accident avoidance test. The LS460 actually obtained CRs highest test score @ 99 out of a 100 yet it is not capable of avoiding an accident. To add further insult to the domestics, CR’s reliability surveys were only sent to CRs customer base and not a random audience like reputable surveys such as J. D. Powers. CR’s survey leads the witness. Therefore CRs reliability survey data does not correlate with data taken from random surveys. Consumer Reports auto testers were well aware of Toyota’s safety issues for years now. They ignored the data and recommended every single Toyota product until days after Toyota issued the recall and stopped selling vehicles. CR is well aware of Toyota’s woes (Tundra is plagued with rotted brakelines, rotted frames, bad ball joints and failing camshaft, sticking gas pedals, poorly designed gas pedals, engine sludge issues dangerous engine hesitations, poor accident avoidance speeds, an electronic module that can cause unexplained acceleration, faulty brakes and much more). We should hold CR liable for the deaths since they recommended Toyota’s to their customers even though they knew about their safety issues for years now.
That has been my take on CR as well. Telling their base what they wanted to hear. Even their testing after the tragic accident last fall, was a joke. They did their test with a Toyota that was not even on the recall. And they did not test at the speeds or conditions encountered by the unfortunate family. It would be nice to see just how much Toyota "donates" each year to CR.
Comments
I'm just diggin' my little race car here from the SW desert of Arizona, kind of freaked out that Toyota is basically imploding into itself here during the past several months.
Dudes, this whole lesson in humility is gonna cost these Japanese friends ever so dearly before it's done. Lawsuits?
What about the cost of all these recalls? :surprise:
What about lost sales?
What about, oh, I don't know, Toyota's credibility any more? Seriously, folks. :sick:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Could this be a politician-like tactic? "Watch this over here while we get publicity for recalling the Prius and don't look at that part of the earlier problem which is ELECTRONIC or COMPUTER related. Just keep your eyes over on the Prius brakes. Forget about the unexplained runaways that are a large fraction of our earlier problems that we tried to hide for years," says the magician.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Huh? I thought it was the owner at fault for now braking properly? I cannot imagine a problem like this with a Toyota, let alone a Prius. That darn media is just trying to make something out of nothing.
And they still have to offer a big bribe. That's sad. Toyota has stopped making many models, recalled millions of vehicles and has all of this daily bad publicity and the other makes still can't compete without offering a big-bucks bounty on Toyota trade-ins.
It's funny and sad.
John
According to a new report, federal safety investigators allegedly agreed to exclude only the most severe cases of “runaway Toyotas” after the intervention of a former safety official, since hired to be a Washington, D.C. representative for Toyota.
According to a new investigation by ABC News, the 2004 federal investigation of computer-based throttle problems never reviewed any cases where the unintended sudden acceleration lasted more than one to two seconds – or any cases in which the driver attempted to brake. Because of these odd protocols, essentially any high-speed cases were completely ruled out from federal investigation.
Since the 2004 investigation, there have been five other similar investigations with the same limitations placed on federal probing. The most recent case involved a Lexus model with unintended and uncontrollable acceleration in 2007.
Edgar Heiskell, an attorney filing a suit against Toyota regarding a deadly Camry crash which took place in Detroit, said, “It’s beyond explanation. I have not seen an explanation that makes sense.”
According to internal memos and court testimony analyzed by ABS News investigators, the investigations were extremely limited in their scope, that is, after negotiations involving former safety inspector-turned Toyota representative.
According to a 2004 NHTSA memo, “Longer durations incidents involving uncontrollable accelerations” were deemed to be “not within the scope of the investigation.”
According to ABC News, that memo was written on March 23, 2004, not long after Scott Yon, a NHTSA official, met with two former NHTSA colleagues that now work for Toyota, including Chris Santucci, who left NHTSA six months prior, according to his testimony.
“We discussed the scope, ” Santucci testified. “I think it worked out well for both the agency and for Toyota.”
That is incriminating. Heads need to roll at NHTSA and is Santucci at risk of criminal neglect for having effected such a limitation, to toyota's advantage, at NHSTA?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Bulent Ezal and his wife were driving their 2005 Toyota Camry in central California when disaster struck. (ABC News)
Bulent Ezal says the Toyota Camry suddenly took off, causing them to plunge over this 100 foot cliff into the Pacific ocean. (ABC News )
Toyota says the accident was caused by Ezal mistakenly pushing the gas pedal. Ezal strongly denies this and says his foot was "absolutely, positively on the brake." (ABC News)
Bulent Ezal, seen here being rescued, barely survived the accident, but his wife of 46 years was killed. (ABC News)
We Will Never Forget!
Not sure, I just feel so bad for the friends and family involved It is bad enough for something like that to happen, but then the way Toyota is handling it...how pathetic. :sick:
I'm not excusing Toyota for what they did and they most def were in the wrong with the cover-up and everything but they are going to pay a hefty price for it, you don't have to keep bad mouthing the situation - I think its bad enough to begin with
Get a hold of yourself - its just a car company and they are going to pay figuratively and literally for their incompetence - we get it - you don't have to keep reminding us of it! take a chill pill and move on!
there is more to life then beating a dead horse when it comes to Toyota
4 to 5 percent of additional depreciation---that's the bad news for current owners of Toyota cars.
Automotive industry insiders from Kelly Blue Book and ALG believe that because of Toyota's current problems with sticking accelerators, trapped floormats and braking problems with the companies halo car (the Prius) residual values of used Toyota's will drop between 4 and 5 percent.
"The potential demand lost as a result of these actions becomes more and more difficult to recover with each passing day," according to KBB. "In addition to a drop in consumer demand for Toyota, there is a growing supply of used Toyota vehicles that could put further downward pressure on values."
Its disappointing when there are those that only want to hear the good things about Toyota; you got to be willing to take the good, with the bad.
OK, I'll go out on a limb on this one. Usually our gracious hosts keep an outstanding hand on these forums, but they have dropped the ball on this one allowing revit to continually post gruesome one sided stories that only bleeding heart ambulance chasing lawyers present to sympathetic juries.
Your posting so much your really starting to make yourself look less creditable and ridiculous and more obsessed and crazy about Toyota then actually posting relevant information; instead of continuing your obsessive compulsive bashing of Toyota and to follow your point about hearing the good things and the bad about something, why don't you post what would be good for Toyota to do to come out of this mess so that they don't make their sales and residual values take too much of a dive!
Outside of Edmund's forum, have you been follow this issue at all on Fox News, CNN, the newspapers, etc? Just because you disagree with my views, but no means should you view someone's messages as one side? Gruesome? Imagine how the family and friends involved with these incidences must feel. My heart goes out to them and I would think others could have at least an ounce of sympathy. And for the ones now experiencing the problem that have been fighting with Toyota for months just to make sure their car is safe, I wonder if you would also call them "bleeding heart ambulance chasing lawyers". Toyota has and continues to make wrong decisions here.
So the question is which Toyota model is next? What will the problem be? This is people's lives you are dealing with and I am astonished at the lack of caring from one human being to another. :confuse:
but your obsessive and crazy about this situation with Toyota, get a hold of yourself man!!!! its bad enough what happened but we don't need you coming on here every hour posting pictures/stats, etc going over and over and over this story and repeating yourself to make a point
Toyota screwed-up big time, they are going to pay for it - enough is enough already!!!
step away from your computer, splash some cold water on your face, go out for a walk, and move on!!!
your seriously beating this to death
To my knowlege this brake problem reported with Toyota and Ford hybrids is unique to the regenerative braking switching to conventional braking during times of abrupt maneuvers such as when hitting potholes or bumps. I don't know of any reports of any lives lost due to this braking issue in the Prius. The brakes, from my understanding, are not failing to stop or slow. Thus far, at least this is more of a brake feel problem rather than a safety problem unless the driver handles it improperly when experiencing it. Correct me if I'm wrong. That's not to say that it isn't a problem or doesn't require a fix.
anyway, since this is the Toyota on the Mend forum, what do you guys think Toyota's going to have to do to fully correct this problem so that they can restore public faith in their products?
While it is absolutely ridiculous how they initially handled this and their suppose cover-up of these safety issues, I have been impressed with Toyota's response to the problems since they were caught last month and are now beginning to fix the vehicles in the recall; I have personally seen my local Toyota dealer' service department open 24/7 with repairing vehicles in the recall
I think this massive public scrutiny over their vehicles quality and safety issues will really get the fire burning under their [non-permissible content removed] that the quality of their vehicles has been slacking off the last several model years and that companies like Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, and Ford have surpassed their quality in many regards; the next gen Camry redesign, which should be for 2012 model year will be a big tell all if Toyota got the message that they screwed up royally on this one!
I do have to agree that it is a sad state of affairs that it took people to loose their lives and to be caught red handed for Toyota to admit their was a problem but unfortunately in most matters of life, people have to die in order for something to be done, I wish it wasn't that way but unfortunately it is
Hopefully, this thing with Toyota will be a big slap in the face to all the other auto makers that the US consumer, gov't, and general public for that matter will not put up with deceit and lies when it comes to car quality and safety!
I have a feeling Toyota will pull through this and only take a loss/decline for the immediate future and not go down the tubes like pre-bailout/bankruptcy Chrysler and GM did, but unfortunately only time will tell!
The 2004 is part of the 2002-06 generation, so it differs from the 2007 model. What I like better comparing the 2004 with the 1997 (both with 4 cylinders):
Timing chain instead of belt
Side curtain airbags and side thorax airbags (optional in 2004, n/a in 1997)
Long-life coolant
Long-interval spark plugs (120K vs. 60K miles)
Standard daytime running lights (n/a until '99)
Larger trunk
Larger back seat
8-way power driver seat standard in LE (vs. 6-way manual in '97 LE)
CD player
Gas strut to hold up hood instead of prop rod.
One more thing: because Mitsu's sales have been so low in the last 5 or 6 years in the US, there would be far fewer units involved in the event of any recall.
If you insinuating smoke and mirrors, I have to say no, manufacturers usually are much quicker in containing damage to late-model cars where a relatively small number are defective. Some of these are caught on the assembly line, before any consumers have taken delivery. Just look at the NHTSA recalls database.
Now where defects stretch out for many years, it generally takes a manufacturer much longer to recall all of the affected vehicles -- an example of this is the longstanding Ford recall for defective cruise control switches that can short-circuit and start fires.
I believe all Japanese companies were offered loan money, but I don't remember if all companies took up the offer. In any case, the loan amounts paled in comparison to the US government's bailouts of GM and Chrysler.
Now I wasn't there, nor did I investigate the crash, but this appears to be a classic case of pedal misapplication, just like with the 80s Audi 5000s.
It wasn't a road at all, but rather the parking lot of a restaurant overlooking the Pacific. The driver was supposedly maneuvering his car into a parking space, when it suddenly took off through the fence and over the cliff. Note that the driver is an older person, and seniors tend to be more susceptible to stepping on the wrong pedal. (I'm no spring chicken myself, so don't call me a young whippersnapper!)
While the 2005 Camry has drive-by-wire, it has a completely different gas pedal assembly from the later cars being recalled. (I should know -- I have a 2005 and a 2004 Camry.) I've never experienced so much as a slight surge from either car in combined usage of over 114,000 miles.
Now any death is one too many, but perspective is needed. Even if you believe that charlatan Sean Kane, 19 deaths have been attributed to Toyota sudden acceleration over the last 10-11 years. This includes ALL cases, including the ones where pedal misapplication may have been the main cause.
Remember that every day on US highways, the sad truth is that 100 people on average die. And even more tragically, we know through scientific studies how to stop many of those deaths, but don't have the political will to do so. (There are other discussions on Edmunds devoted to the last point, so I'll stop here.)
I thought I had read that fact in another discussion, probably where one of the trolls was attacking GM for taking government money. I did not know amounts involved. but it makes sense, other than currency exchange problems hitting the company unexpectedly, that Toyota had a larger rainy day fund and needed less help.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
definitely over 4 million for that 1 model.
that was traceable to hardware.
did it affect focus, taurus, escape. expedition, and f150?
Toyota would love to be able to say their problem is hardware. So much easier to fix. I think the evidence points to software/firmware. Hopefully the NHTSA does not let them off the hook with that kludged shim fix. At the very least they should replace the poorly designed throttle control unit. It is only a $15 part, they are going cheap John with a 2 cent fix. That does not say much for Toyota leadership.
It's my recollection it was design flaw that Ford covered up. How soon we forget
There's a youtube fix using a nickle instead of the shim provided graciously by toyota. So I guess we should call it a 5-cent fix?
BUT that's only for the few car which had developed what turned out not to be metal corrosion due to moisture condensing on it while next to a heater blowing out hot air
instead it was cheap plastic that adsorbs moisture and deteriorates. Talk about cheaping out.
I think most people expected to have the entire pedal, including a different plastic for the friction component, replaced as part of the recall. I wonder if anyone is demanding an upgraded pedal put in instead of the one with the plastic that deteriorates under high moisture conditions--such as living in hot humid climates. Or Ohio in summertime.
I still believe toyota already knew the flaw in their system of firmware/software. I still suspect they hoped to reflash as many as they could with the add on computer-based brake pedal emergency override, and, my personal opinion, is they intended to reflash the flaw in their software.
Now there's too much attention on it. And I suspect someone has already archived a computer system for comparison if they do reflash with more than a brake override.
Two area attorneys are already on the class action suit sleighride, Stan and Eric. Stan Chesley is a classic early class action suit originator. Eric Deters may be familiar to many from the OReilly show where he talked about successfully defending a female teacher who suffered the attentions of a high school student.
This class action suit is all downhill for the sleigh. Won't even need a team to pull the sleigh. This will be like watching the ski slopes at Vancouver in the Winter Olympics.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
link title
i really enjoyed the pirelli scorpions i got for my EXPEDITION under the same recall for $35 as a result of swapping out my firestone a/t's after 35k miles.
Because Ford Explorers called for dangerously lower tire pressures to improve ride quality. I ignored them on my Explorer and kept them 4 - 6 psi higher than the recommended value and the car bobbed and bounced all over the place but I'd rather have that than have squishy tires that folded over like pancakes at the slightest wheel correction. The Explorer was designed with a higher Center of Gravity to begin with which affected these conditions the most.
I put a majority of the blame on Ford with that one.
According to early reports, the recall would only affect the 2010 model year of the Prius – Toyota has sold 103,000 units in the U.S., 176,000 in Japan, and a grand total of 311,000 worldwide. Of those, not all will be affected by the recall as Toyota implemented a change on the assembly line in late January after discovering the problem, but prior to publicly considering a recall.
Because Toyota implemented a change in the brake design, only 277,000 of the 311,000 units sold will likely be subject to recalls – with 37,000 located on U.S. soil. Although the source who spoke to the NY Times about the imminent Prius recall did not mention the Lexus HS250h, Toyota has confirmed that it is also looking into the HS250h and Sai model (Japan only) as they share the braking system with the Prius.
According to NHTSA reports, the 2010 Prius has logged more than twice as many complaints than the sum of all other 2010 Toyota models combined – including the models included in the latest recalls. High complaint rates are not new to the Prius, however, as from 2004 to 2009 the Prius received 2,310 driver complaints with NHTSA, with the rest of the Toyota lineup garnering 2,340 complaints during that period.
Toyota says that the likely fix will be a software re-flash, but it has yet to confirm a definite solution for the vehicles already on the road.
Toyota to announce 2010 Prius brake recall for U.S.
Toyota to announce 2010 Prius brake recall for U.S.
Toyota Motor Corp’s Lexus and Scion brand have been pretty safe when it comes to the company’s recent surge of recalls; however, Toyota is now looking into see if its Lexus HS Hybrid has the same braking issues announced in the Prius last week. :sick:
“They have very similar braking systems and we are currently checking whether they have the same problem,” Takeuchi said Monday in Japan. “Nothing has been decided.”
Toyota has plans to announce a solution for the Prius early this week, both in the U.S. and overseas. It is unclear whether Toyota will issue a recall or voluntary safety campaign, but Japanese media says Toyota will most likely recall the Prius in some 60 countries.
Some dealers said that the have been advised that the Toyota Prius would be recalled but are not allowed to notify customers until the recall has been announced. :confuse: :confuse: Most dealers are already receiving software upgrades to fix the Prius’ antilock braking system.