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I pay attention to the brand of old cars that are driven hard or aggressively when I commute to work and the ones that are parked outside on the streets. Not the older classic cars that are garaged and babied by their owners.
Many cars that fall into the above catagory in the New York area anyway are Toyota's, Honda's and older Nissan Maxima's. I use to see a lot of 12, 13 year old plus rear wheel drive GM cars like my 1981 Buick Regal cruising the streets of New York, but not so much now. I still think the Detroit cars that lasted the longest were the rear wheel drive V8's with a carburator.
Only time will tell if the newer Fords and Chevy offerings can withstand 15 or more years of New York driving abuse.
Just to name two examples regarding your Tundra tirade: only about 2 dozen or so camshafts broke, and none of the affected trucks were in consumers' hands. Sludge never affected any engine used in either the current or previous generation of the Tundra.
How do you expect Edmunds and CR to discover this problem during testing when it is such a rare occurrence? Recalls are not usually uncovered by auto testers, as they may each test a sample of only one or two examples of each model.
I agree that it's extremely unlikely that a testing auto group would stumble onto most flaws of this type. CR only happened to find the Ford Fusion brake change by a stroke of luck. And Ford already knew about it IIRC.
It's my opinion, that after Toyota started getting the reports of UA some of which got past the local tech writers shunting them off as driver error or imagination, they knew what they were looking for. That made it a whole easier for them to find than a test driver with a car for a day or a few days coming across a strange behavior.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Are you STILL peddling that nonsense, but making the fish story bigger each time? Why not mention me as the all-powerful man behind the curtain who forced Edmunds to close the sludge forum? This is your version of what occurred, after all.
As I have said for the last couple of years, that forum had devolved to name-calling and nothing productive was being said. The last straw was a blast from a very vocal pro-UAW poster in these forums.
I recommended to the Edmunds hosts that they shut it down. It wasn't "purged," just made read-only BTW. Steve, did I have that much power that you HAD to comply with my request? Last time I checked, my name wasn't Tony Soprano!
And the good folks at Allpar are out of their element complaining about the statistical blunders of CR. Go to TrueDelta for much better analysis, not that I necessarily agree with it completely.
People subscribe to CR precisely because it is UNbiased unlike paid for by bribery JD Powers. Consumer Reports has always existed as a straightforward no non-sense format to review and track vehicles for quality and reliability. They don't pull any punches, just report the real information as it truthfully happens in real life.
A couple of years at the top does not make or mean Ford is the king. They have to own a top ranking for over a decade like Honda and Toyota did and do.
When I said the toyota's my parents and older brother have purchased were flawless, I meant in terms of their intended design and mechanical function, in other words, Reliability and Dependability.
If we rank handling, I'd race a Toyota Supra against any Buick any day of the week.
How Big is This Problem?
We're no Toyota apologists, but if you look past the media circus, the numbers don't reveal a meaningful problem. Every man, woman, and child in the U.S. has approximately a one-in-8000 chance of perishing in a car accident every year. Over a decade, that's about one in 800. Given the millions of cars included in the Toyota recalls and the fewer than 20 alleged deaths over the past decade, the alleged fatality rate is about one death per 200,000 recalled Toyotas. Even if all the alleged deaths really are resultant from vehicle defects—highly unlikely—and even if all the worst things people are speculating about Toyotas are true, and you're driving one, and you aren't smart or calm enough to shift to neutral if the thing surges, you're still approximately 250 times likelier to die in one of these cars for reasons having nothing to do with unintended acceleration. So if you can muster the courage to get into a car and drive, the additional alleged risk of driving a Toyota is virtually negligible.
I couldn't agree more, and this puts the entire "circus" into perspective.
You can't have it both ways I'd think. Why aren't the latter NOT recommended for being "American?"
This is all I'm going to say about CR -- back to the subject at hand: Toyota.
"During a routine test on its Sienna minivan in April 2003, Toyota Motor Corp. engineers discovered that a plastic panel could come loose and cause the gas pedal to stick, potentially making the vehicle accelerate out of control.
The automaker redesigned the part and by that June every 2004 model year Sienna off the assembly line came with the new panel. Toyota did not notify tens of thousands of people who had already bought vans with the old panel, however.
It wasn't until U.S. safety officials opened an investigation last year that Toyota acknowledged in a letter to regulators that the part could come loose and "lead to unwanted or sudden acceleration."
In January, nearly six years after discovering the potential hazard, the automaker recalled 26,501 vans made with the old panel.
In a statement to The Times, Toyota said that there was no defect in the Sienna and that "a safety recall was not deemed necessary" when it discovered the problem in 2003. The company called the replacement part "an additional safety measure."
To me, that looks like a deliberate cover-up and a callous disregard for their customers.
A few dealers are pulling their advertising from ABC affilicates because they're unhappy that ABC covered the story. The dealers feel the criticism in the stories was excessive.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Throttlegate: While I was on vacation, the whole Toyota Unintended Acceleration Thing exploded in the media. There is apparently a mechanical fault with binding accelerator pedals on some cars, depending on the model and the component supplier (Denso good, CTS perhaps not good).
Every time I turned on an LA television station, there was some coiffed airhead holding a microphone standing in front of a Toyota dealership saying how awful, dangerous and/or inconvienent it all is. Except when there had been a big accident on a Freeway. Or a murder, which usually involved a knife and a perp ... And a lot of yellow police tape.
Toyota's January sales tanked as a result of bad publicity and the company's decision to stop selling affected models until the problem is resolved. Toyota's sales dropped 16% during a month which saw gains of 24% for Ford and 22% for Hyundai. Toyota estimates recall costs to be $2 billion or so.
The problem has been exacerbated by U.S. Transportation Secretary - and idiot - Ray LaHood, who said that owners of Toyota vehicles recalled for accelerator-pedal defects should "stop driving" them and bring them to a Toyota dealer for repair. "We need to fix the problem so people don't have to worry about disengaging the engine or slamming the brakes on or put it in neutral." LaHood later retracted the remarks but the damage was done....
Amen, brother!
More at The View through the Windshield.
BTW, Dan will be leaving the bankrupt Times and joining The Wall Street Journal this spring.
Today, "customer first" is one of (Toyota president Akio) Toyoda's favorite catch phrases. At his press conference he repeatedly stressed that his company needs to get back to basics and put customers first.
"Under the banner, 'Let's build better cars,' we will go back to the basics of 'customer first,'" Toyoda said, "and once more, deeply consider what 'customer first' really means."
Toyoda said part of the solution would be to give more autonomy to local business units.
At the briefing, Executive Vice President Shinichi Sasaki, the company's quality czar, outlined Toyota's renewed quality campaign:
-- Verify the cause of the recalls.
-- Inspect every process, from design and production to sales and service.
-- Beef up customer research offices to collect more comprehensive feedback from the field.
-- Set up regional Automotive Centers of Quality Excellence.
-- Seek evaluation and help from outside experts on how to improve quality.
Toyoda didn't give a timetable for implementing these changes. But he said they are key to getting Toyota back on track.
His appearance in Nagoya last week was highly symbolic. The 53-year-old scion of the company's founding family now heads a company -- and represents a family -- that still commands enormous respect in Japan.
But his promise of "customer first" will need a lot of proving, even in Japan.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100208/OEM01/302089948/1117-
Oh yes, it will. Let's see if they can even accomplish point one, verify the cause of the recalls.
By the way, I am assuming I would have seen it SOMEWHERE if Toyota had resumed production of affected models, so I guess it still hasn't? That's 10 days now with no Camrys being built here (although I guess they are still building them in Japan and shipping them over).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
No influence here, although the horse's head in my van's back seat did freak me out a bit. :P
Here's the archived sludge discussion - Toyota Engine Sludge - and one current one:
Toyota Highlander oil sludge settlement
(There's also one for the A4, the Impala and the Passat).
Some of the personal posts have been power flushed by the way; let's stick to the cars and manufacturers and not each other.
I have driven the Prius myself on a couple of occassions (neat car btw) but I never experienced this delay. But then again I also drove those in the warmer weather which makes sense since the recall is apparently linked to colder weather situations.
Figured I would pass this conversation along before the tirade of "Toyota deathtrap" nonsense makes the rounds again.
But, as you say, start with honestly and comprehensively indentifying the cause of the UA and braking issues (and whatever other issues they may know lurking about but remains silent on).
My feeling is that even one death is tragic....especially when they could have been prevented by being up front and honest about their problems. Further, safety recalls are meant to keep any more injuries and deaths from happening.
Mentioned in another thread that I have a neighbor 2 doors down from me who bought a new Camry SE last Sept. He won't drive it. It's been sitting in his driveway since Toyota finally issued the recall. His selling dealer agreed to tow it to their service dept gratis. But, as others have mentioned, parts are becoming scarce. And, they're saying he's on the list, but looks to be a few more weeks away (depending on part availability) before they can give him a definitive answer on when they'll tow his car for him.
Back to the title of the thread....this is going to take a long time to fix. After that, who knows how long it will take Mr. Toyota to follow up on his commitments with something tangible on the rest of his points.
I have forgotten the details but I recall GM's statement about the advertising. Were the Pontiacs accelerating like Christine during parking? Were the G6's suddenly acting like their cruise controls were flooring the accelerator and drivers not being able to stop?
Or was it he just didn't like the G6 in some way? But it wasn't dangerous.
There's a difference.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Were the Pontiacs accelerating like Christine during parking? Were the G6's suddenly acting like their cruise controls were flooring the accelerator and drivers not being able to stop?
There go the hyperboles again. Accelerating during parking (like the off-the-cliff incident) has all the hallmarks of pedal misapplication. And Wozniak's just whining about his cruise control problem in his Prius -- it's not the same as the other issues except in some people's minds.
I've driven the car myself and find no braking problems, although the braking feels different due to the regenerative feature. If anything, the brakes grab more quickly than in conventional cars.
State Farm Insurance Warned NHTSA
According to Ward's Automotive Reports, 2/1/09 edition, the production stoppage ended on Friday, 2/5. So only 5 days of production were lost, totaling 21,667 units, or 18.2% of planned North American production for February. (Sorry, no link, requires subscription.)
Said Sean Kane, president of the Safety Research & Strategies consulting firm: "Toyota's Teflon image for reliability is going out the window faster than anyone can salvage. People are logically asking, how can it have problems with so many models?"
Kane, who is scheduled to testify tomorrow at a congressional hearing on Toyota's problems, said that the accumulation of so many serious complaints over 21 months without an investigation raises questions about NHTSA's effectiveness.
Said Kane: "How could NHTSA's surveillance miss this apparent pattern?"
C'mon, I'm still waiting for someone to defend the methodology of this group's "investigation" process. Their main source of income is from trial lawyers.
So superior that Pontiac is now out of business... :lemon:
I don't know man you're rants some off with a ton of harshness but little fact other than your own subjective observations. :confuse:
TO THE REST OF YOU TOYOTA OWNERS, IGNORANCE IS BLISS!!!!
Thing is, it isn't until we ignore yotas successful run to the top of the sales charts and rightfully earned reputation for quality and dependibility that your point holds any water other than being a derogatory attack. But in your black and white "u vs them" world it isn't possible that there could be people who are impartial to Toyota or domestics huh? Freedom of choice my man. :shades:
Welcome to America, enjoy your stay.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
That could be even worse than UA. Depending on how radical the veering off center is.
That could be something that should ground all those cars until they are fixed.
My niece was all set you purchase a Camry until we drove the Fusion and Camry one after another. People like you will only try the Toyota because you just know...
Smart American's know that Ford produces the most reliable vehicles that compromise ride with handling. This knowledge will take some time to trickle down to the rest, but in 5 years Ford will be on top. See what Jim Cramer is saying about the two stocks
I also liked Lemko's reference to the Dodge "Peon."
LOL, right. BMW, Mercedes.... um Pontiac... Right. Those Aussies knew what they were doing huh? Shame it has no bearing on the floating appliances that made up the rest of Pontiacs rental fleet.
Smart American's know that Ford produces the most reliable vehicles that compromise ride with handling.
By compromise do you mean "give up" ride and handling?
It's also a little early to be claiming victory when long term studies still put Ford products as "mid pack". You've been reading the advertisements over =====> huh?
It's official:
Toyota Recalls 437,000 Hybrids Globally, Including Toyota Prius (AutoObserver)
http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-recalls-7300-camrys-with-potentially-leaking-- brake-tube.html
I wouldn't go so far as to say Toyota makes junk. They just don't make cars. They made nice transportation appliances with about as much soul and excitement as a Whirlpool washing machine until recently. The sleek sexy lines of the Whirlpool definitely beat Toyota in the styling department.
if your like most americans who don't want a car that drives sporty and wants something that is a plain jane and gets you to point A to point B with a comfortable ride and good seat comfort then the camry fits that bill; most people don't care what car they drive as long as it gets them from point A to point B; I'm not one of them and like cars that look, handle, and ride a little bit more sporty, which is one of the reasons why I didn't get a Camry
you know, your attitude toward Toyota is surprising; people who are American car lovers, specifically GM and Ford seemed to forget pretty quickly the poor and pathetic situation both Ford and GM were in not too long ago so you would think you would have some empathy for the problems people with Toyota and the company themselves are having
Ford still leads the pack with the most amount of recalls at 14 million I believe so lets not give Ford too much credit yet; I do agree, that Ford has made great progress and turning the company around and within 5 years they might be back on top in the US, but we are still a few years away from that but its certainly possible