Toyota on the mend?

lemko

Ford no longer makes the kind of vehicles I want. I currently own a 2005 Mercury Grand Marquis LS. If Ford had only kept the Panther platform up to date, Ford would still be on my shopping list. The Taurus is too small and I really don't like the truncated V-6 only Lincoln MKS. The Town Car is much more to my liking, but Ford let it become a laughably dated dinosaur. I would love to see all-new full-size full-frame RWD/AWD Panther platform cars with all the up-to-date technology.

graphicguy

hoya....I don't think anyone can come to any other conclusion that this has turned into a total breakdown of Toyota's quality and safety processes. IMHO, this didn't happen overnight. The quality/safety breakdown had to have occurred over a long period of time....maybe just a little here and a little there, until finally all of it culminated into this catastrophe.

smarty666

I just broke out my 09 CR Magazine from last year to look up this suppose bias about American cars but I just don't see it; here is a list of each automaker and the number of recommended models CR gave each car manufacture:

Honda: 10
GM: 7
Ford: 13
Toyota: 14
Nissan: 12
Mazda: 7
Hyundai: 6
Subaru: 6

Ford had more recommended models total then Honda and Nissan so how the hell is their bias against them; now remember this is for 2009 models so I don't know how it has changed for 2010; I know for 2010 GM got a couple more added to the recommended list for 2010

anythngbutgm

It is really foolish when somebody mentions Toyota when they are talking about agility and handling. The G8 GT is a balanced RWD sedan with 365HP. The Avalon and Lexus LS 460 posted the absolute lowest speeds in Consumer Reports accident avoidance tests.

It is also foolish to measure a company as "crap" because they don't prioritize handling when it comes to product design.

I guess one could make the argument right back that Government Motors products like Pontiac that is being discussed are "crap" because of severe lack of luxury, safety (Where are the standard knee and curtain airbags huh?) and ride qualities compared to the Avalon or roflmafao LS460.

Good luck with your Toyota stock.

Not a holder but I'd rather be holding a pile of stock that is trading around 70 bucks a share than a piece of the 50 billion in tax money that I was forced to invest into a failing, dying entity that should have been put out to pasture.

I would rather walk than to be seen in a Camry with the brain dead tailpipe design.

Good for you. 400 thousand folks every year disagree. It is the number 1 selling car out there. The G8 crack 50 thousand sales yet?

Oh ya, that's right it's an orphan......

smarty666

plus, he is comparing a RWD V8 to a FWD V6; even if Toyota was known for handling, which they are not, comparing a RWD V8 to a FWD V6 is absolutely ludicrous; of course the RWD V8 is going to handle 10x better than FWD V6 simply on the mechanics involve alone let alone the design philosophy of the auto manufacturer

V6 FWD vehicles are known for not handling the best and a lot of it has to do with torque steer in those set-ups: its a no brainer, if you want something that handles like a sports car you go into a RWD set-up - duh! why do you think BMW and Infiniti are the best handling cars on the market? its not because they are FWD!

and actually, to correct something pushrod said, Chrysler actually makes the worst cars on the road, Toyota doesn't fit that title even by a long shot! Chrysler is still struggling even after bankruptcy and taking our hard earn taxed dollars!

dturr

Toyota must buy themselves out of this hole.

I would need a 25% discount to make me buy a new one ?? What about you

graphicguy

I dunno that I'd walk into a Toyota showroom with any sort of discount. Some will, given enough financial incentives and say "screw" safety and quality....I'm buying cheap. Resale is tanking, too. So, you have to take that into consideration, also.

stever

while I agree that Toyota's are far from being class leading in handling capacity

That's what Karl says too.

"Toyota doesn't make the most passionate cars on the planet"

Karl on Cars: Car Guy Talk -- Toyota (Edmunds CarPool)

But I dunno, I sure had a lot of fun slinging my '82 5 speed Tercel around. Drove the neighbors nuts parallel parking it in front of my house all winter with one of those sliding ebrake turns.

captain2

need a 25% discount to make me buy a new one ??
the same situation that the Korean and the American mfgrs have been in for years and years - or maybe they take the Buick approach and simply up the MSRP enough so that can give that kind of discount.
In any case, Toyota will sure have to back off its traditional 'MSRP is a real number'
sales approach and that will eventually hurt one of Toyota's real strengths - resale values.

anythngbutgm

I found the RAV4 with the V6 to be pretty entertaining myself. That thing zips around like an old Honda Prelude and put your foot into it will embarrass a lot of cars out there. All the while returning mid 20's fuel economy. :shades:

The interior was it's downfall tho. Even in the most luxurious Limited trim it was more Yaris than Camry. :sick:

smarty666

exactly, people are not buying a Toyota or Lexus because they handle great; they get them because they want a sofa on wheels that provides isolation from the road and comfort throughout the commute; if you want something that handles like a champ, go buy a BMW or Infiniti! you'll get your money's worth out of those cars for handling!

smarty666

Smart American's know that Ford and GM had mis-management and poor products for almost 30 years and that reliable vehicles and a good reputation has to be earned and its going to take more than just 1 or 2 years for Ford and GM to gain a quality and reliable reputation back! - Ford, GM, and certainly not Chrysler, have not yet proven that they can build long-term reliable cars since not enough time has gone by since restructuring

Smart American's know that they need to be patient and wait to see if Ford and GM have really turned a corner before investing in them again!

It look years for Toyota, Honda, and Nissan to earn their reputations for quality and reliability and Ford and GM will be no different; this latest problem with Toyota is going to hurt their reputation severely and its going to take years for them to prove once again that they have changed in order for them to rebuild their reputation for quality, safety, and reliability!!!

gagrice

C'mon, I'm still waiting for someone to defend the methodology of this group's "investigation" process. Their main source of income is from trial lawyers.

And how does that relate to the steering issue with the 09-10 Corolla? It looks to me like the NHTSA has been getting these veering off the road complaints since Toyota implemented their new DBW steering. Even if you discounted the ones blaming the car for causing an accident, you have dozens of complaints by non accident victims. How do you explain that. Why would someone file a complaint about a cars steering if they did not have a problem with it?

doggrandma

Argghhh! Please, everyone, stop putting apostrophes in plurals!

(Sorry, I couldn't help myself.) :P

mrpushrod

I took my niece out who was set on buying a Camry. We drove a Fusion and Camry one after another on a twisty road holding them both to the same speed. There was no comparison at all. The Fusion has a much better all around ride than the Camry, period. The Camry had a rattle too. She bought the Fusion which BTW gave up nothing to the Camry in interior comfort. The Camry's V6 was better at the time.

Consumer reports has to recommend Fords because they perform well enough in their biased reliability survey (ONLY THEIR MEMBERS CAN TAKE THE SURVEY). If a vehicle gets average or better they can recommend it. Their auto testers are then responsible for testing the vehicle for comfort and performance, etc. They get to pick the final test score of each vehicle and they do not show the data (individual test results and weight applied to each test) used to obtain this number. For example: Did the nice stitching in the seat leather account for more than having the worst handling out of all other sedans sold in America? This is where Consumer Reports caters to the demographics of its audience to sell more magazines. The big three rule (Toyota, Nissan, Honda) They have toned it way down as of late as Ford does better and people like myself expose them. The more and more Ford catches on, the more and more they have been changing there tune. The reliability survey alone is obviously biased. Excellent vehicles like the Cadillac CTS are not recommended because they just miss the reliably cut when in fact non biased surveys put the CTS equal with the Camry.

gagrice

putting apostrophes in plurals!

It is the spell check here at Edmund's. When you say there are a lot of Camrys on the road you get a spell check error. You put in an apostrophe and it is looks good. You must be an English teacher. I got "Ds" in English.

smarty666

take a chill pill buddy, you seem to forget that I've complemented Ford on their progress and I have been impressed with the Fusion; if I only could choose between the Camry and Fusion, I would choose the Fusion, because your right, it has a better balance of ride and handling then does the Camry; actually, when I test drove the Camry last year, I got dizzy and nausea from it because the ride was too wallowy and didn't have any road feel come into the car or steering wheel!

that feedback in regards to handling and road feel is something I like to have a little bit of when driving because it gives vital feedback to the visual and tactile sensors for the body so that you don't get dizzy and nausea!

luckily, there are other choices besides Toyota and Ford and I chose a different one, and trust me, their are several cars that handle and ride better than the fusion does; the fusion is not the all mighty best car ever produced mantra that your making it out to be; its a nice car with several nice attributes but it is far from being the best car ever!

"CR reports has to recommend Fords because they perform well enough in their biased reliability survey" - that makes no sense at all, if it was biased as you say then they wouldn't recommend anything - your logic about CR just doesn't make any sense but your entitled to your opinion and I disagree with it completely; and just because you don't agree with some of their rankings and ratings does not mean that its a lousy mag; there are some ratings and opinions that CR has on some of my vehicles that I don't agree with but I take it with a grain of salt but I don't go ballistic and say the whole mag is trash; like I said yesterday, most intelligent people would not just look at CR for all their information on cars, you have to take the majority of information from several sources to get an accurate rating and reliability reading for a car your interested in

tomjava

Wild, Out Of Control Toyotas? Baloney.
Posted Today 11:56 AM by Arthur St. Antoine
I cannot sit quietly on the sidelines any longer. This whole Toyota-recalls hoo-ha has morphed into nothing but yet another “crisis” that a ravenous media and 21st Century Americans -- a people who live better and more safely than any humans in history -- have transformed into their panic du jour. This morning I watched a video “report” on CNN.com showing a Toyota owner who drove her Tundra off a rain-slicked road and down a cliff -- and claims she could do nothing to stop the car. The victim appeared on camera with the requisite tears and even the cliché neck brace to bolster her plight. Naturally, the possibility that said driver might in fact be woefully lacking in skills or -- yes, I’ll say it -- even talking on the phone or texting before the crash never arose during the interview. These days, it's always someone else's fault.

I was in this business when the same joke of a “problem” hit Audi in the 1980s. Thanks to a few witless drivers and a barrage of breathless, clueless news reports (including, most prominently, a fear-stoking segment on "60 Minutes"), the entire country began treating the Audi 5000 sedan as if it were a four-wheeled Beelzebub. Only years later, after an exhaustive Federal investigation costing millions in taxpayer dollars, did the truth emerge: for whatever reason, Audi owners were stepping on the gas instead of the brakes

Did "60 Minutes" do a follow-up piece on that? Of course not.

Lest you assume at this stage that I’m a Toyota apologist, let me state my position clearly:

1) Poorly fixed floor mats very possibly did contribute to sudden acceleration or a “stuck throttle” in some Toyotas. Then again, there likely isn’t a brand of car made whose throttle hasn’t been fouled by an errant floor mat on occasion. Car “defects” are part and parcel of creating a machine of such breathtaking complexity. All automakers suffer from them, and 99% of the issues are minor and dealt with swiftly.

2) There very well may be some mechanical issue in the throttle linkages of some Toyotas that causes the gas pedal to bind in some way, even if only slightly.

3) There also may indeed be a software glitch in the brakes of the Prius. My wife drives a 2010 edition, and well before these stories hit the news she’d told me that the brakes “act weird at times -- they can be really jerky” (and, yes, she knows the difference in feel between standard and hybrid-regen brakes). But, of course, they’d always stopped the car.

4) Toyota has completely bungled the handling of this entire affair. True, the company is in a lose-lose situation. Blame Toyota drivers for panicking and slamming on the wrong pedal, and your customer base will tear you down in fury. Conversely, admit to a defect in your cars and you scare potential buyers away -- perhaps for good. Still, Toyota should have owned up and addressed these issues openly and immediately. Instead, as Angus MacKenzie notes in his previous blog, the company has floundered in "feet of clay."

5) I do not believe that Toyota vehicles are poorly designed, dangerous, possessed by Linda Blair, etc. It’s possible that some software or hardware anomaly is causing Toyota gas pedals to behave strangely, resulting in drivers who panic, even slam on the wrong pedal, and crash.

6) I’m concerned that we do not know the full story behind the tragic incident in which a “runaway” 2009 Lexus ES 350 killed everyone aboard -- including an allegedly skilled driver -- last August. The crash simply makes no sense. This is a vehicle that was “out of control” on a SoCal freeway for several minutes -- enough time, in fact, for a passenger to call 911 and ask for help. Are you telling me that said Lexus suffered an absolutely stuck, wide-open throttle, a total failure of the braking system, and also could not be shut down, slowed, or stopped on a freeway with a trained driver at the helm (even crashing obliquely into the guardrail would’ve been preferable to rocketing head-first into an embankment)? Sorry. Doesn’t pass the Baloney Test.

Toyota is now in serious trouble -- and in many ways, deservedly so (just how long ago did Toyota execs know of potential throttle issues, anyway?). But the notion that Toyotas are rising up and rocketing uncontrollably across highways, into walls, or off cliffs is nothing but media-fueled twaddle. Step on the correct pedal -- the brakes -- and your vehicle will stop. But if a vehicle hiccups, for whatever reason, and gets wadded up as a result, the fundamental defect is a clueless driver.

Those, apparently, a like-minded media has access to in droves.

Read more: http://blogs.motortrend.com/66...svqcc

210delray

Have you looked at the actual complaints? If we took all complaints at face value, just about every car on the road would have to be recalled.

NHTSA's job is to separate believable claims from those that are bogus, and see that if a pattern or trend to the complaints can be discerned. If so, NHTSA will open a Preliminary Evaluation, which could lead to a more serious Engineering Analysis.

As one wag on another website stated, there's a low signal-to-noise ratio in those complaints -- that is a lot of garbage compared to valid concerns.

gagrice

These days, it's always someone else's fault.

Is that not what Toyota has done for several years now? Blame it on the driver and now blame it on CTS. Because Toyota has NOT been Proactive concerning UA over the last decade of mounting complaints. They will get tagged with every single accident that can be pinned on them. I consider it paybacks for the consumers that may have had a legitimate problem and were snubbed by the automaker.

Toyota has completely bungled the handling of this entire affair

That is a FACT!

210delray

I'm so glad you mentioned that!

mrpushrod

Smarty said
CR reports has to recommend Fords because they perform well enough in their biased reliability survey" - that makes no sense at all, if it was biased as you say then they wouldn't recommend anything

I use AOL.com for my home page. When ever there is a survey it always is always a pro republican result. They had Obama losing all the way. The survey results on AOL politics never correlates with national surveys. Another example is: some people watch only what they want to hear and hear what they want to hear. They be the people that only watch FOX news or on the other hand CNN. I typically watch or listen to it it all FOX, CNN, CNBC, NPR talk radio, etc. Sounds like your way too. the majority of the Consumer Reports clan (employees and customers) like Honda's, Toyota's and Nissans and that is why their data (survey results) is tainted or pushed into that arena. Vehicles like the CTS fair a lot better in fair (random) surveys.

Of course there are other cars besides the Fusion and Camry. i would own a CTS if I didn't need the room of the G8.

I test drove one prior to my G8 purchase. The CTS V must be a hoot

210delray

There's a board here on Edmunds for complaining about CR and JD Power -- IMO we'd all be better served if you took your arguments over there.

doggrandma

Curious, in your comment, there is an apostrophe in "Edmund's", but not in "Camrys". Perhaps this is a case of unintended apostrophe-zation.

I am a former homeschool mom. My kids dreaded my unmerciful red pen!

Back to cars...Is it likely that all manufacturers will install an override system so that the brake always "wins"? There is an entire thread dedicated to Santa Fe UA on the Hyundai forum, so it isn't just Toyota's problem.

210delray

He has the prior generation Prius (2006 model specifically), which is not part of the recently announced recall. As I said, he lives in NYC, which arguably has the most punishing paved streets in the US:

I found it suspicious too when hearing that Wozniak, as a software expert, blamed his experiences on a ''software glitch." It's the old adage of everything seeming like a nail when you're holding a hammer.

I think the apparent brake failure is a psychological consequence of the vehicle's design. At the stoplight turning from Queens Blvd into 84th Drive, there is a large pothole that's impossible to avoid as it extends across the entire lane. When driving over it while braking, the vehicle will appropriately display the "loss of traction" light on the display (not sure what this warning light is really called). The ABS definitely kicks in, and I think the psychological consequence of seeing the warning light on the display, coupled with the very real difference in the feel of the ABS versus the normal brakes, makes the driver suddenly hyper-aware of the vehicle's handling. As when encountering a patch of turbulence on an airplane flight that's strong enough to make the captain turn on the "fasten seatbelt" sign, which makes passengers anxious with visions of doom, the actual loss of control is negligible or nonexistent, though we may feel that we're about to spin out.

Personally, I think that if the warning light were removed or replaced with the words "enhanced braking engaged" or something more benign, the ordinary driver would not be as startled.

This whole issue has been overblown because mechanical problems are so rare in Toyotas (to my knowledge). To use the airplane analogy again, airplane crashes occur so rarely that they make front page news when they happen, but ordinary vehicle crashes kill orders of magnitude more people but are rarely mentioned. Likewise, when something seems to go wrong in a car that almost never has anything go wrong, it gets in the press.

Certainly, I've never noticed any loss of control.

stever

Hey, I was just quoting someone else.:-)

We have just the discussion for you:

Grammar and the Peeves that Pet It

Kirstie has a funny apostrophe link over there somewhere.

nippononly

So only 5 days of production were lost, totaling 21,667 units, or 18.2% of planned North American production for February

There were also 3 days of production lost in January, as it stopped on January 28, if memory serves.

graphicguy

gagrice....good point. How many reviews have we read (including here at Edmunds) how the quality of Toyotas has been diminishing. I think just about every trade rag has mentioned this quality decline, at least in the Camry.

Now, these safety "issues" have come to light....with more being reported every day.

They responded, not by taking responsibility, but by pointing their fingers at suppliers (CTS), driver error (that's a lot of drivers who are in error....which is even less likely), and doing their best, "What, me worry?", Alfred E. Neuman impression (at least up until very recently).

And, we're still not certain that the "fix" is correct. Doesn't seem very comprehensive in identifying the issues, let alone a fix for the issues. Plus, the issues just keep on coming, almost daily (just saw another one regarding problems with Corolla's steering).

I live relatively close to Toyota's North American HQ. I have friends who work there. Toyota has a marketing dept, and parts depot even closer to me. From what they're saying, it's chaos in all those facilities right now...and has been for the last couple of weeks. But, Toyota's problems are worldwide, even in their home country, Japan.

A bitter pill has to be swallowed. And, only Toyota can swallow it. For my friends' sake, I want the ship to be righted. There's no clear cut answer Toyota has come up with to do that, though. And, there's nothing on the horizon that would have us think they have the answers. If they do, they aren't sharing them (which could be a major part of their problem).

gagrice

Have you looked at the actual complaints?

No, I have not. Evidently the NHTSA has and are planning to act.

NHTSA fielding complaints about 2009-10 Toyota Corolla steering. Agency may open probe after reports of unintended veering

An analysis by Automotive News found that the Corolla has been the subject of 83 power-steering complaints to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration since April 2008. Seventy-six of those reports note that the vehicle unexpectedly veers to the left or right at 40 miles an hour and up.

Again if a car company sticks their head in the sand when these kind of complaints start coming in, they open themselves to the media. The media by and large are trying to stay afloat. So the more sensational the headline, the better chance of survival. We are getting back to the basics of dog eat dog, may the strongest survive. The question is? Which automakers will survive? I voted for Ford with my money.

larsb

"Toyota has completely bungled the handling of this entire affair: That is a FACT! "

Not so fast, Grasshoppers.

They SURELY bungled it over the last few years.

But RIGHT NOW, standing up and identifying the cars with problems and recalling them, no one could ask for anything more.

That is PERFECT handling, not bungling at all.

mrpushrod

My money on Ford too. Cramer just may be right. The Corolla is kinda funny. The car just never felt connected to me. From what I read people are complaining of vague steering on the highway. The Corolla is not the first car I have driven that felt that way, but cars have come a long way and most manufactures look to strike a balance. Good engineers try to achieve both as best as possible without an exotic price tag. Toyota seems to have a disregard for safe handling. It is almost like they think there customer base only cares about the cushy appliance like ride. There is a point where you sacrifice safety.

gagrice

Maybe you should look at how they handled their problems. Waiting for two years on issues they know exist is far from perfect. So you are on the pro Toyota side. Whatever they do is right. If you buy the shim fix, I got a bridge in Lake Havasu I will sell you.

As just posted. Toyota USA is in total chaos. They are flailing around like a Halibut on the deck of a fishing boat. I don't think even the most optimistic management at Toyota would agree with your "perfect Handling" statement.

My question? Will any of their vehicles escape being recalled for some safety issue? It seems to be daily now. A real media feeding frenzy.

smarty666

hey delray, can you give a link to that board because I can't find it; I want to go over there and see all the loon talk from disgruntled GM, Ford, and Chrysler owners that there cars aren't on top according to CR?

they all seem to forget the 30 years of crap that came out of Detroit that got them in the position that they are trying to get themselves out of now right now and that CR reflects that!!! it doesn't change overnight!

last thing too, I think Motortrend is a bias magazine because there is no way in hell the Fusion should be car of the year; they only let their staff and subscribers bias and opinions reflect their car of the year awards..... blah blah blah - I'm being sarcastic of course! sounds familiar doesn't it?

mrpushrod

Smarty -- Out of the people that look for their news from one source, do you think there would be a difference in opinions between the average FOX and CNN subscriber?

Could you obtain a difference in survey data by using one crowd over the other to answer a polarizing republican/democrat question?

That is why surveys must be national random in order to be accurate. You can not target a cult

larsb

Sure, they handled ( Past Tense ) them poorly, BEFORE.

But NOW, they are stepping up to the plate and doing things right.

smarty666

what is with you and this FOX and CNN stuff, I don't care what the news organizations have to say about cars, FOX is conservative bias and CNN and MSNBC is liberal bias, if those are the places your getting your info, no wonder you go on about CR like you do; what do news organizations know about cars, nothing; they put on suppose auto professionals to spew their point of view and you can never listen to car execs, sales people, etc because they are always going to blow their own horn and never admit they have problems or their products are inferior to someone else ; that is the way its always been; news organizations, especially cable news are always going to have more people on that slant their opinion closer to what that news organization believes in!

I don't care about the people who use only one source for information; as I mentioned time and time again on here, which you clearly didn't read, intelligent people don't use just one source of information for everything, I use a whole bunch of professional automotive mags, sites, etc when making my opinions and decisions, not just one!

and really pushrod, if your going to be so ridiculous and now bring politics into it then go somewhere else; edmunds isn't meant for turning this into a political debate about democrat vs republican , its suppose to be a debate on cars and car companies, political parties has nothing to do with it and I am not interested in debating politics, its bad enough companies like Ford, Toyota, and others have hidden problems and given customers hard time with recalls and getting problems with their vehicles addressed to have to take this discussion in that direction!

I'm hoping delray can give me that link to that CR discussion so I can bring this stuff over there!

gavrik

When I experienced uncontrolled acceleration in my '05 ES330 two years ago, shifting to neutral did absolutely nothing as the car continued to accelerate. I see posted video where the guy states simply shift to neutral and the car should at least stop propelling forward. Well, it did not work for me.

The problem with Toyota is electrical/electronic, not mechanical.

The shim fix is a scam.

smarty666

they were saying on the news the other day that your suppose to hit the brakes and then shift into neutral in order to stop the car in case they are under UA

I don't know if that is how your suppose to do it or if that even works? hopefully, someone will chime in about it cause I'm not quite sure

mrpushrod

I would find that hard to swallow unless the shifter linkage is electronic too.

jspagna1

People are going to get a LOT of mileage out of this recall. Have you begun to see the commercials Toyota is airing because of their situation. Never saw that from any other car company before. I give them credit for that.
It's unfortunate because with the way the economy has affected the Auto industry, this is the last thing this country needs, but there are going to be people out there trying to make a fast $$$ if they can. In the end we all pay!!
__________________

smarty666

your right, I am praying that all the other car manufactures of learned from the past mistakes of GM, Ford, Audi, and now Toyota because in the end its all of us consumers who suffer because there is no car company that doesn't have a recall on something from time to time and hiding problem and trying to say their isn't a problem when people are paying a lot of money for these automobiles is absolutely a sin and a disgrace

the American public won't put up with it, they didn't with the American car companies and now the Japanese have seen we won't put up with it either with their products!

210delray

The production stoppage was announced in late January, to start on Monday, Feb. 1.

210delray

The shifter linkage is mechanical in the ES330, same as in the Camry.

210delray

Hmmm, I can't find the discussion either; maybe it's been archived.

Steve, maybe you can help us in locating the Consumer Reports vs. JD Powers thread?

revit

Federal officials review Toyota Corolla complaints

WASHINGTON -- Federal safety officials say they will look into complaints from Toyota Corolla drivers about difficulty with the steering on their vehicles.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has received about 80 complaints from drivers of 2009 and 2010 Corollas. Many say their cars can wander when they drive on the highway, making it hard to stay in lanes.

NHTSA says it will determine if a formal safety investigation is warranted. But agency officials also stress that it is standard procedure to review the tens of thousands of driver complaints they get every year on a wide range of vehicles.

imidazol97

>low signal-to-noise ratio in those complaints -- that is a lot of garbage compared to valid concerns.

When State Farm notified NHSTA in 2007, that' pretty damning signal/noise.

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20100209_ap_statefarmsaysitwarnednhtsaonto- yotain2007.html

210delray

But agency officials also stress that it is standard procedure to review the tens of thousands of driver complaints they get every year on a wide range of vehicles.

That's exactly the point I was making. Some body of complaints ---> Preliminary Evaluation. Most PEs are either dropped or the manufacturer recalls a small number of mainly late-model vehicles.

Some PEs ---> Engineering Analyses, which are more in-depth investigations. Automakers must comply with NHTSA requests for information. In turn, EAs are dropped for no defect trend, or manufacturers voluntarily recall larger numbers of vehicles on average.

A handful of PEs ---> Formal defect investigations. Extensive back-and-forth between NHTSA and the manufacturers. NHTSA, with signoff by the DOT secretary, can make a determination that a defect exists, requiring a voluntary recall. Manufacturers can contest decision in federal courts. If NHTSA wins, a "forced" recall occurs. If the automaker wins, and there is no further appeal, no recall is conducted.

tomjava

Did you hit the brake after shift transmission to Neutral? If your car was going downhill offcourse it wouldn't slow down.

andres3

This dude still holds a vendetta against Chrysler because his Dodge Peon wasn't built like a Mercedes S-Class.



Pretty funny. But even you have to admit you are exaggerating wildly.

All I expected was for a few parts to last a lot more than 3 years or 36,000 miles. Apparently Chrysler's M.O. is to design and engineer parts to ONLY last 3 years or 36,000 miles. Without the purchase of so many REPLACEMENT Mopar products for that car, Chrysler would have gone bankrupt nearly 10 years ago rather than last year.

stever

Here you go:

Comments: Consumer Reports/JD Power Rankings