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The UAW and Domestic Automakers

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Comments

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 26,215
    Only some of the Civics and Accords are built here. About 10% of the Accords and Civics are imported.

    well, heck if only 10% are imported, then MOST are built here, not just "some."

    '10 Equinox LS; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 49-car history and counting!

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    well, heck if only 10% are imported, then MOST are built here, not just "some."

    That certainly did come out wrong!! I really meant only those Honda models!!
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,701
    Whoa. Japan's autoworkers are unionized?

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Yes they are unionized. I know this to be a fact since My great aunt had the biggest toyota forklift company west of the Rockies. She went to Japan and couldn't believe how well Toyota took care of it's employees. She said they had benefits that UAW workers could only dream of. Toyota would pay for their kids college, gave them premium healthcare at the Toyota owned doctors, and lots of time off. Most of the workers lived in Toyota City Japan, and life revolved around Toyota. Your friends were your co-workers, and Toyota sponsored exciting family activities for it's employees during rest hours. ;) Now Toyota has gotten a taste of American greed and is off shoring it's buisness to the non-union South of the U.S.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    I also Lemko hope your "Great" Father is enjoying his retirement. ;)

    Rocky
  • carlisimocarlisimo Posts: 1,280
    So are Korea's.

    Countries without unions, much like the US in 1900, tend to be Third World countries. Not saying unions are necessary once a country has made it to First Worldom, but they seem to be an important step in getting there (based on history... not on theory).
  • fljoslinfljoslin Posts: 237
    I would of never made a fair salary and benefits without a union.

    You use the term fair salary. What is a "fair" salary for assembling a car? Is is what it costs GM at about $87/hr with wages and benefits? I am not so sure!
    I would use the terms excessive, exorbitant, extortionate.
    Of course, until the non-union competition came along, GM was not the one getting extorted, it was the American car buying public. I would love to see the UAW go on strike. What will happen? They have no bargaining power any more.
  • You may only be worth $14 an hour. What is your educational background? Unions generally get people with only high school diplomas overly compensated for what they bring to the table. I know as I used to belong to the Teamsters Union and most of the time they helped the wrong people (aka those who should be fired) keep their jobs. You couldn't fire people for doing awful work until you documented everything for TWO YEARS.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Exactly. Korea's standard of living is currently significantly lower than ours. However they are making great strides and have the knowledge to develope and engineer fine products. The people are getting educated and therefore will someday become a helping hand to spread the benefits of democracy to other asian country's. ;) Great post !

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Well when I started at JCI I had acquired machinery skills from past employment. I only stayed a year because a much better oppertunity came along. So I only made $11.74 when I left. They had a high turnover ratio at the interior plants in Holland Mi. The other plants across the U.S. and Canada that had similar skilled production people that were UAW were making $18 and change an hour. They didn't have to constantly retrain people because people would stay making there plants very efficient and the workforce expierenced. I wanted to go to skill trades school but never could get a opening to go. I was dissapointed and left finally. I left while the gettin was good because they laid-offed a thousands of people afterwards which is still happening today. What the plan is from what I heard from some of my relatives that got laid-off this past year is JCI is going to Mexico !!!!!! Yippee thousands more unemployed !!!!! :mad:

    Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,701
    What is JCI?

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Johnson Control Incorporated. They are the biggest manufactor of Car interiors in the world. (All Brands) Toyota, GM, Ford, DC, Honda etc etc. I built parts to about all of em' at one time or another. ;) They baught Prince Corporation in Holland, Michigan about a dozen years ago. JCI, also is a large manufactor of electronic thermostats, (I believe also #1) and the first company to invent it !!!! JCI also was and still is a large producer of car battery's. JCI baught Delphi's Car battery division a few years ago to become by far #1 ;) Johnson Controls was "spun off" by General Electric, many years ago and GE, still is a major stakeholder in the company. This is just another reason why (GE) is the biggest and most powerful company in the world. :D
    Holland, Michigan is a very industrialized small city. The major corporations are Johnson Controls, Herman Miller, Home of the Great Gentex Corporation, Donnelly, Haworth, Transmatic, and many others. Lost Life Savers a few years ago, and lost General Electric in the 80's.
    Holland, still remains a industrial home of big buisness, even though our economy up there took a dive. :cry:

    Rocky
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,277
    IS Canada considered Import? MDX is Canadian.

    But you are right, the TL is the only US built Acura.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    IS Canada considered Import? MDX is Canadian

    I guess so. the list is not clear on that.
  • carlisimocarlisimo Posts: 1,280
    Are all the cars that GM sells in China made in China and Korea?

    Do "buy American" advocates support the sales of GM products in other countries?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Are all the cars that GM sells in China made in China and Korea?

    Do "buy American" advocates support the sales of GM products in other countries?


    I believe at this time that GM does not export any cars into China and Korea, at least not from the US.

    "Buy American" advocates do not get a chance to support exporting since I soubt if many cars are exported to those countries. I know we export about 800 cars a year to Japan and also to Europe and the middle east.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 26,215
    I'm still not following you. You are saying that 90% of Honda's top 2 sellers are built here in the US, are you not? And, along with that, we know that Odysseys and Pilots are built here in the US and Canada.

    Found these tidbits on Honda's website:
    *In 2004, Honda purchased more than $13.6 billion in North American parts and materials.
    *Since 1982, the number of Honda's U.S. suppliers has increased from 40 to more than 550.
    *In 2004, Honda's United States factories assembled 803,000 vehicles, 1.2 million vehicle engines, 1.26 million general purpose engines, 300,000 power equipment products and 389,000 motorcycles, personal watercraft and ATVs.
    *Honda's Ohio engine plant is the largest Honda engine plant in the world, producing more than 1 million engines per year.
    *Established in 1975, Honda R&D Americas designs and engineers new models that are currently produced in the United States, such as the Honda Civic Coupe, Pilot and Element, as well as the Acura TL.
    *Honda exported United States-assembled products to 81 countries worldwide in 2004.
    *More than 17 million products have been assembled by Honda in the United States during the past 25 years.

    '10 Equinox LS; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 49-car history and counting!

  • stmssstmss Posts: 206
    The list gets fuzzy as does the 49th parallel. I live in Canada and drive a Ford built in Chicago. I don't consider it an import.

    Many Hondas are built here in Canada but Canadians still consider them an import (mainly because they may not know they are built here).

    You get many GM, Ford, Chrysler products built exclusively on either side of the border, and have been for years.
  • carlisimocarlisimo Posts: 1,280
    ""Buy American" advocates do not get a chance to support exporting since I soubt if many cars are exported to those countries. I know we export about 800 cars a year to Japan and also to Europe and the middle east. "

    Actually my second question concerns locally built cars under a foreign nameplate. Like the Buicks in China, and the Opels/Vauxhalls and Fords built in Europe. If I'm not supposed to buy a Toyota built in my hometown, then I'd feel betrayed by Ford selling a European-built Focus in Europe.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    I'm still not following you. You are saying that 90% of Honda's top 2 sellers are built here in the US, are you not? And, along with that, we know that Odysseys and Pilots are built here in the US and Canada.

    Not sure what your are asking but it looks like the Accord, TL and Civic are made in the US in very high quantities. All other Acura's/Honda's are made outside of the US.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Actually my second question concerns locally built cars under a foreign nameplate. Like the Buicks in China, and the Opels/Vauxhalls and Fords built in Europe. If I'm not supposed to buy a Toyota built in my hometown, then I'd feel betrayed by Ford selling a European-built Focus in Europe.

    Not sure what you are getting at but the China Buicks are built and sourced in China. Most China Buicks are designed and developed in China now. the Chinese did use the LaCrosse body drawings to make their own tools and make their own parts. However they redesigned the entire interior and fascias.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 26,215
    You are forgetting the Pilot, Odyssey, and Element. (300,000 odysseys and pilots are built in Alabama and the element is built in Ohio.)

    '10 Equinox LS; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 49-car history and counting!

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    OK--Automotive News revised their data tables this week for the new year. I was looking at cars only.

    I will try again on US sales:
    Imported to US: NSX, RL, RSX, TSX, Accord Hybrid, some Accords, Civic Hybrid, 10% of Civics,FSX, Insight, S2000, CR-V

    Built in US: TL, MDX, almost all Accords, 90% of Civics, Element, Odyssy, Pilot, Ridgeline

    For 2005 thru November
    American built Hondas:1,000,000. Imported:260,000

    250,000 Elements and Pilots thru November
  • mirthmirth Posts: 1,212
    This is where you can really see how out of touch the UAW is with the rest of the country. Most people already have an extremely negative view of the UAW, considering them to be lazy and overpaid (I'm not one of these, btw). Protesting in front of the auto show will only increase this negative view, because nothing they are protesting is the fault of the people attending the auto show. If they want to protest, go stand outside of Delphi HQ.
  • http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_gema_work_rules_2/

    Will it work? Should other manufacturers follow this example?

    It sounds good.
  • http://www.uaw.org/solidarity/05/1005/uf01.cfm

    Sounds like an ideal set up?

    I also recently read Mitsubishi and UAW signed a 3 year contract(late 05). Do not know if it is like GEMA set up or not?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    And GEMA requires that hourly employees have a college degree.

    This way GM can cut it's hourly work force by 80%
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMPosts: 7,615
    cutting the hourly work force by 65%?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    cutting the hourly work force by 65%?

    35% of the UAW is not college educated.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMPosts: 7,615
    35% of the UAW workforce was college-educated, not that 65% of them are college-educated.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    We are talking in circles here!! the article said that all the union members at this engine plant were college educated.

    Someone said that maybe this is what GM should do. I said that they would probably basically have no workforce ldft because few are college educated. Sorry for the confusion.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ... **Yes they are unionized. I know this to be a fact since My great aunt had the biggest toyota forklift company west of the Rockies. She went to Japan ...**

    Oh - my - Gawd.! ....... where do you get this stuff...? ..l.o.l....

    .. whatever you're taking, please get me two of ....





    Terry.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Oh - my - Gawd.! ....... where do you get this stuff...? ..l.o.l....

    .. whatever you're taking, please get me two of ....



    What are you talking about Terry. The Toyota workforce in Japan isn't unionized and I'm a liar ?????
    I'd wish you'd give me "two" minutes and look it up and prove me wrong. :D

    Rocky
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ... **What are you talking about Terry. The Toyota workforce in Japan isn't unionized and I'm a liar ????? ...**

    A liar.? .. no.! .... very misinformed.? - you betcha.!



    Terry.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    very misinformed.?

    On ?

    Rocky
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 9,287
    Let's not take this down to a personal level please.

    Thanks!

    Edmunds Moderator

    Silver 2012 Nissan Versa Hatchback & White 2019 Nissan Rogue S

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  • martianmartian Posts: 220
    It seems to me that the french have been able to preserve their domestic auto industry-Pugeot and Citroen are still viable players. If it takes protectionism, maybe that is what we would have to consider-our trade deficit with China is approaching $800 billion-there is no way that this is suatainable. of course, the Chinese keep buying treasury bonds, so maybe its OK. I shudder to think what happens, should the Chinese try to dump those bonds at once though.
    What about it, Shiftright-the french seem to be able to retain a viable domestic assembly business..I'd hate see the USA imnporting everything!
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,701
    The trade problem is real. Clinton got lots of PR "opening China for imports from US" under a trade agreement. Instead we got more imports, few controls, and Walmart is now a major player in moving companies supplying them to China to reduce costs adding to the trade deficit. Suppose that had anything to do with Walmart being in Arkansas and having influence in the trade agreement supposedly to benefit our exports; most economists probably knew at the time the reverse would occur.

    So how many cars can we build here and export to China?

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • carlisimocarlisimo Posts: 1,280
    French cars are interesting to study. Yes, their quality has been abismal (though the most recent cars have seemed to be changing this). The interiors suck too.

    But French cars have always had a couple of things going for them. They look like nothing else out there, for one. Equally importantly, each brand is class-leading in at least one other thing. Citroen is one of the best at comfort without wallowiness. Peugeot has handling down, without the jitteriness. Renault, lately, is known for the safest small cars.

    When you're the best at two things, people will forgive you for something else. Since they don't drive as many miles as we do, they're willing to sacrifice reliability for style and good dynamics.

    That particular combination wouldn't work here - we need our cars to run every day - but my point stands. The success of French cars is in knowing what priorities French drivers have, and being the best (not just "pretty good") in those aspects.
  • martianmartian Posts: 220
    I can remember when CITROEN, RENAULT, PEUGEOT were sold in the US. yes, they succumbed to the competition ,mostly because of problems with parts and service. But the Citroen was such a technically advanced car-and they somehow managed to power a 3500-pound DS sedan with and engine of less than 2 liters displacement. As i say, we in the USA had better be wary-if we wind up ceding the small car market to China, we may well have no domestic manufacturing within 20 years time. So perhaps the French are worth studying.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ...... Three major players put Clinton into office .. the Walton organization, Tyson chicken (largest poultry company in the country) and JB Hunt (the largest trucking firm in the country) all from Arkansas .. it doesn't get much bigger than that ....



    Terry.
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    The transition was actually the same, if you think about it: consumers decided to patronize someone else with a better product. We can't blame someone else for making a better product, can we ;-)
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Yeah it does. "Big Oil" put Dubya in office. ;)

    Rocky
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 9,287
    Let's keep things centered on the automotive here.

    Edmunds Moderator

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  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Febuary 14th (Delphi BK) might be some insight for the stage that lays ahead.

    Rocky
  • beliverbeliver Posts: 155
    Poor ole' Rick Wagoner will really have to tighten his belt since he's getting a self imposed pay cut. Poor baby will just have to struggle along on a mere 1 mil plus pay check. At least Bill ford will not be taking ANY pay at all ( like he NEEDS any money LOL ). How about Ron "Ficklefinger" uaw prexy stepping up to the plate and take a pay cut as well. The UAW has a lot of blame in this mess too and should at least make a token effort to "suffer" along with the rest of the fat cats.

    believer
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Nope, they already said they were not giving up anymore. We will see.
  • bobstbobst Posts: 1,783
    It seems to me that the UAW were suckers.

    Back in the 1960's, the UAW was always going on strike, I assume for higher wages.

    GM, Ford, and Chrysler offered the UAW small wage increases but 'promised' them a great retirement package and great health care benefits. These promises cost the manufactures nothing at the time, but it made the UAW temporarily happy.

    This Ponzi scheme is now collapsing from its own weight. The manufactures can't afford to keep their promises.

    So what is the solution? It's simple. GM goes bankrupt and liquidates. They sell their manufacturing plants to a new company called Bobst Motors, who owes nothing to the GM retirees. Then Bobst can produce new cars for a cheap price and be very competitive.

    Bobst's workers are happy, the consumers are happy, and the economy goes sailing along.
This discussion has been closed.