Toyota Fearing Hyundai?

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Comments

  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    is why Wal-Mart is where it is today, plus, the grocery-clothing,oil-change store combination, to make shopping in one spot easy, and going anywhere else un-necessary
    (10/10K warranty could be thought of as same way?).

    Yes, nippononly is correct: China, Inc will be here soon, and I bet that it will not take 40, 30, or 20 years for them to get their quality up, and sell on cheap prices.

    Then, of ocurse, you have India, Brazil, and many others. My question is this: What happens when ther are no more "cheap labor/materials' countries for cheap cars built to acceptable standards?

    I wonder what say GM, Ford, Isuzu, among others, buy back rates are?
    What are their rental fleet %?

    I read in December that Ford still sells Taursuses, for rentals only, and sold more rentls of those than I think than of the 500 or Fusion!

    Peace.
  • delta4delta4 Member Posts: 138
    nippononly I'm curious about where that "buy back" number for Hyundai cars orignated? In the meantime some research found the following at the Federal Trade Commission's website regarding lemon law buy-backs http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/lemon/prelimrpt.htm. Here is one quote, "In Massachusetts, lemons manufactured by Chrysler, General Motors, Ford, Isuzu, Mazda, Mitsubishi, and Nissan were retitled in other states or were placed in "auction." In Georgia, the same pattern held for vehicles produced by BMW, Chrysler, General Motors, Ford, Hyundai, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Toyota, and Volvo." although this is one quote taken from their website, I have yet to find any source on the web that purports to have specific information broken down by manufacturer.

    If you have a source or know of one can you share that with us?

    As to your statement that Americans disregard quality so they will also do the same for their cars? Looking at what's happening to both GM's and Ford's market share dispels that as obviously not the case.

    Americans do indeed care about quality especially when it comes their cars. Otherwise organizations like consumer reports and J.D. Powers would not exist. GM and Ford have unfortunately learned this lesson the hard way.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    "Americans do indeed care about quality especially when it comes their cars"

    Yeah sure, some do, but the majority? I am thinking NOT! But I am not saying I am totally sure I am correct or anything.

    If people paying $20K and up will put up with repeated trips to the service drive (think VW Group owners and others), probably a lot of people paying $12-15K will also. The manufacturer just has to make them feel like they are getting a bargain - give 'em CD players, A/C, and outside temp gauges, and slash $1500 off the price at rebate time, and they will lap it up no matter how often the car itself breaks down. AS LONG AS when it does give them problems, it gets repaired for free.

    Just a theory.

    And as for Toyota, well, it is counting on there being a significant percentage of people who will not only pay extra because they value quality and reliability, but will also buy into Toyota's rep and will feel the quality IS there at test drive time.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,359
    ..... You need to quite taking things personally, because this discussion "isn't" about you ... we had this discussion back in June/July(?) last year and you didn't like the information that was posted then ... I don't make the news, I just report it .... if you have something personally to say, then just email me ... now, read on.

    >>MBB 05,HYUNDAI,SONATA V6,4D SEDAN GLS

    12/13/2005 FAAO $ 9,300 2,351 BURG 6G A X SE
    12/20/2005 FAAO $ 10,300 4,231 BLUE 6G A X SE
    12/08/2005 LAS VEGA $ 9,500 4,629 SLV 6G M X WC
    12/23/2005 NEVADA $ 9,000 4,653 GREY 6G 5 WC
    12/21/2005 CEN FLA $ 9,300 5,680 BLACK 6G A X SE
    12/28/2005 MINNEAP $ 10,600 7,572 GRAY 6G A X MW
    12/13/2005 FAAO $ 10,100 8,615 BLUE 6G A X SE
    12/13/2005 STATESVL $ 10,400 10,062 BURG 6G A X SE
    12/14/2005 BAY CITI $ 11,200 11,700 RED 6G A X WC
    12/22/2005 MID AMER $ 9,500 13,317 GRAY 6G A X MW
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 10,800 13,367 WHITE 6G A X MW
    12/14/2005 ORNG CTY $ 10,900 13,947 2 BLUE 6G A X SE
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 10,300 14,240 SILVER 6G A X MW
    12/28/2005 BAY CITI $ 10,500 14,478 BLUE 6G A X WC
    12/27/2005 FAAO $ 9,400 15,891 GREEN 6G A X SE
    12/14/2005 DAYTONA $ 9,300 15,981 GREY 6G 5 X SE
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 10,700 16,048 WHITE 6G A X MW
    12/21/2005 MILWAUKE $ 10,500 16,656 BLUE 6G A X MW
    12/14/2005 DAYTONA $ 10,500 17,376 WHITE 6G 5 X SE
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 9,700 18,236 BLUE 6G A X MW
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 10,800 19,428 WHITE 6G A X MW
    12/08/2005 GTR TMPA $ 9,100 19,884 SILVER 6G A X SE
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 10,700 19,954 MAROON 6G A X MW
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 9,100 20,035 WHITE 6G A X MW
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 10,500 20,127 BLUE 6G A X MW
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 9,500 20,560 SILVER 6G A X MW
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 10,100 20,740 SILVER 6G A X MW
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 10,500 20,902 SILVER 6G A X MW
    12/15/2005 SO CAL $ 10,200 20,956 SILVER 6G A X WC
    12/15/2005 SO CAL $ 10,200 21,048 GRAY 6G A X WC
    12/02/2005 MANHEIM $ 8,700 21,076 GRAY 6G O X NE
    12/15/2005 SO CAL $ 10,700 21,096 GRAY 6G A X WC
    12/15/2005 SO CAL $ 9,200 21,106 MAROON 6G A X WC
    12/14/2005 DALLAS $ 9,000 21,136 GRAY 6G A X SW
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 10,700 21,144 WHITE 6G A X MW
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 10,200 21,187 SILVER 6G A X MW
    12/07/2005 DALLAS $ 9,500 21,198 WHITE 6G A X SW



    Terry.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    they won't be buying back my 04. Has 23,000+, 0 problems.

    The 99 was rough, the Sonata, I will admit,but it lasted around 120,000, before nickel and dime stuff set in heavily(or it was the dealership, not fixing things right the first 3 times!), but before 113,000? Nothing, really.

    Wish our 200sx, Nissan, 97 model, base, would have been bought back, but it had 67,000 miles, and nearly 3.5 years old. Thing quit running, due to gear tooth chipped, timing chain slipped, threw off the timing, and needed a rebuilt starter,ignition coil,new timing gear and chain, spark plugs,etc, and kept having issues, so we dumped it.

    Thanks for posting those figures .
    I wonder how many GM or Fords get recalled annually?
    or Isuzu's(they only sold 9,000+ up through November of 05).

    I have honestly owned 2 Nissans, 2 Chevies, 3 Hyundais, and now a Scion tC, and all but the last 2 cars had some mechanical failing.
    Maybe not bad enough for repurchase, though.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    "fixed". got stuck 2 times, mid-way up the windshield, passenger side.
    That was it for nearly 40,000 miles now. The other Scions, I read, were "bad", due to NVH, mainly?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    complaints like squeaks and rattles have been hitting Toyota hard for almost three years now - the new 2002 Camry, the new 2003 Corolla and Matrix, the Scion xA and xB. They ought to do something permanent about that. It's not a reliability issue, but will certainly impact how people feel about their new Toyotas. It was a contributing factor to my deciding to get rid of my '03 Matrix earlier than I otherwise would have. Three service trips is what it took for them to quell the worst of the rattles, and even then new ones would crop up from time to time, and the original ones were never 100% cured by the service department. Apart from that it was flawless.

    The real thing about Hyundai is not where ti stands today, but rather how quickly it has straightened up its act in the last few years. Is there any reason to think it will not be able to continue on this path for the next five years? If it does, it will certainly be something for Toyota to worry about. The "what if" of whether today's Hyundais WILL stand the test of time is something that should be planned for today by Toyota and all the other big players in the industry.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    despite buy backs, or whatever.
    and, for the first time, Sonata sales topped the 20K mark in a month.
    My deal is this: I think the cars had more character last year or 3, than now. Even saw an Azera, and it was at the end of a line of Sonatas, and I did not realize what it was until my 2nd pass, and I looked, intentionally, for the name on the deck lid. That's not good, for a car that is one level up from the Sonata, to almost look like a Sonata.
    :confuse:
    Seems the more dull, or "normal" they make thme, and the more 5 star ratigns they get(plus sales) the more fly off of the lots.
    The Sonata sales...... went from 11,000 being their best, to 20K+, in 6 months time, for a single best month sales.

    I read on a fan site that one guy looked at the 06, and got a left over 05, because he liked the old design better(as do we, in our family).

    I won't buy another Hyundai, unless they snap out of this make a better looking Accord stuff.

    Won't even consider one, but seems others are, as SOnata hit , i think 132,000 sales for 05.

    Toyota should worry, they learned their secret: 5 star crash test ratings, and Bland Cars= Sales :confuse:
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAMember Posts: 15,306
    I agree! They've got to stop copying those dull Japanese designs. The only thing worse than a Camry is a Camry clone! That's what the Azera is! Some goes for the Accord-clone Sonata. Korean cars had a funky look all their own that I liked. Who else but the Koreans could give us something as funky as the Kia Amanti?
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    yes. I agree. The 1st 2 generations of the Tibby were odd, too, but different looking from anything else.

    If I wanted an Accord or Camry, I'd buy one, not a clone, either.

    Hey, get this. Surprised me... this past Summer, 05, I saw 2(or 3) Yellow, Scoupes! One was driven by a guy who looked to be in his mid-30's . He would go by here daily.
    Arm hanging out of the window, radio cranked up, etc.
    The other was in town.
    Had a guy a few years back got one for his daughter, in college....said it was a nice little car( he had Buicks).
    He said if gas were higher priced, he would keep it himself and drive it.

    They should have "retro-ed" the new Accent 3 door to Scoupe-like deal? :confuse:

    I know people buy em!

    a 11K new (sort of retro) Scoupe, but have 140HP, in a 2,500 lb car, may not be too sluggish, and look different than anything else out there.

    Different sells.

    Ask Chrysler.... they had 5% increase for 05 over 04, i read. It sure was not due to simple, copy cat, or "quiet" designs, that do not stand out.

    Hey, ya want to see a funky sporty car design from Hyundai? Look up the HCD-8. Or wait for their newer version at Detroit. I hope that they do not mess it up , and water it down to bland.
    Take It Easy.
    DAV
    83-94
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAMember Posts: 15,306
    This is the kind of car even Nissan doesn't have the guts to build!

    http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.php?file=car.php&carnum=1866
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    So ya like that?

    Hyundai will have an HCD-9, a supposedly updated version of this, for either Detroit or Chicago.

    The first HCD-1 and 3 were precursors to the 97 Tiburon.
    The back seat was originally intended to seat a 3rd person, but like a lounge chair, with odd seat belts?
    Of course, due to rules and safety regs, they had to make it "Normal" 2 seater in back(cramped, too).

    I have read Hyundai is considering a 30K Sports Car. This could be it?
    Others have said it is either a Tiburon(of course, it would have a lot less features, but even the design would be enough to get me to look, and possibly buy, as I am sure many others would look).
    Another story was this may be a version of the Sonata Coupe?
    The deal is, Hyundai needs to build stuff akin to this, and forget copying everyone else.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Yes, that little Hyundai coupe is pretty sharp looking. Has a hint of cough*Aston Martin*cough in the body lines :surprise:

    It would be nice if the Koreans would discover more of a style of their own.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    No both are scared to death of GM-> :mad:
    Hyundai-> :cry::cry: <-Toyota
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    good joke, hehe.

    One day in the next year or two GM will make the UAW very scared of their bankruptcy judge, which is the only scaring that is going to be going on at GM for the foreseeable future...

    Funny, in some of the linked articles in this and other threads, it is mentioned that Honda will gradually fade away in prominence, eclipsed or perhaps "squeezed out" by the big four: GM, Ford, Toyota, and Nissan. No mention of Hyundai, but it is certainly vying to be number five on that list.

    Too bad if so - Honda is one of the few companies still focusing on the engineering as much as how many cupholders they can squeeze in, and how many red cents they can squeeze OUT in cost-cutting.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    However as it looks though GM will remain #1 for the next 80 years :shades:

    Rocky
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    if Toyota makes the 9 million sales worldwide it expects/hopes to make this year, GM won't even remain number one in sales for the next 12 months, let alone 80 months or years.

    We will see. Toyota could be overly optimistic there. Hyundai's big rush is going to have to continue for a while if it hopes to catch up, but I believe they have the goods to do it.

    I think Honda will probably have to (dreaded word) merge with another company if it hopes to expand rapidly enough to keep up with the big 4.

    PS of course, if you meant #1 in your heart, then I am in no position to argue. GM may remain #1 in many ways, I just don't think global sales will be one of them.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    GM will be #1 in my heart if they ever expand more in the U.S. like filling up old factory's with new product. I do think GM needs to go back into building products like refridgerators, locomotives, and start a new buisness building airplanes. GM should always build cars, but should diversify itself. I think selling DirecTV was a mistake. Electronic Data, and Delphi, were mistakes also in my opinion. Delphi could of made Televisions, Hometheater Products, such as speakers, recievers, etc.

    I think Toyota is a growing and prosperous company. I just feel the gap is fast closing because the domestics and koreans are getting much better at engineering good product with american flavour. :shades:

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAMember Posts: 15,306
    Hyundai XG300/XG350 - look like a little Bentleys from the back and a hint of Lincoln LS in the front

    Hyundai Tiburon - reminds me of what the Japanese used to do before they forgot sports cars and went en masse to blandmobiles.

    Kia Amanti - a weird funky conglomeration of a Buick LeSabre with an E-Class front end and a Chrysler grille.

    Last-gen Hyundai Sonata - looks a bit like a C-Class with a Mercury grille.

    Kia Optima - I'm not sure what the new one looks like, but the recent model I've seen is fairly attractive. It has four round lights up front. Larger headlights and slightly smaller parking lights next to them for a quad-headlight look. Kind of reminds me of mid-60s Mopars.

    Hyundai Elantra - really unique styling for such a small car. Much more interesting than any Corolla or Civic.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    Really? I am surprised to hear you say that, to my eye the Elantra is just about the blandest, most blend-into-the-crowd Hyundai there is. I would rate the Civic and Corolla both better-looking, with the Mazda3 still the segment champ for styling.

    Now some of the other cars you mentioned, especially the Kias, really do look like very old cars, with the big round bug-eye lights and curves everywhere, no angularity whatsoever. However, that look is changing at Hyundai with the latest Sonata and the Azera, and perhaps one day Kia will follow that trend, we will see.

    It is always debatable just how important styling is in the overall sales picture for any given manufacturer, but I would say it is fairly important - look to hot sales of the HHR for a good example of an OK car with eye-catching styling that is probably selling more on looks than anything else in particular. Here, both Toyota and Hyundai are lagging - neither has a model that is pointed out in the marketplace as truly stylish. Right now, Hyundai is probably ahead in the "styling race", but with the next generation of Toyotas (beginning with the new Avalon last year and the new Camry in two months' time), Toyota may move ahead in a more stylish way.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • dglozmandglozman Member Posts: 178
    If they #1 whey they loosing so much money?
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    GM isn't losing money globally. Just in the U.S. They are still the Biggest Car Manufactor on the planet and should remain so. China won't buy Japanese cars because of past history's. A grudge they won't let go. So GM is beating down the door in China and they are also the biggest in China. GM finally after alot of years is going to engineer a fine, long lasting, product that looks good. ;)

    Rocky
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "I agree! They've got to stop copying those dull Japanese designs. The only thing worse than a Camry is a Camry clone! That's what the Azera is! Some goes for the Accord-clone Sonata."

    In my opinion the Azrea looks like a 96 Buick Regal from the front. I don't see where you see the Azrea looks like a Camry.

    "Some goes for the Accord-clone Sonata."

    I don't get why people say the Sonata looks like an Accord. Mazda had the same tailamps on the Mazda 929 in the early 90's that the Accord had in 03-04 and that the current Sonata did. In my opinion Hyundai better executed that tailight look than Honda(accord) or Mazda(929) did. Than again you could say Mazda used the 929 talights on the 93 626. The only color the new Sonata looks good in is black. I think the car looks pretty cool in black though. For the record I am a bigtime Honda and Mazda fan.

    "Korean cars had a funky look all their own that I liked."

    I didn't like the look of Korean Cars in the mid to late 90's with Kia's although what was it the 96-98 Sonata I liked the look of. The 90's Elantra looked wild. The look of the 01-06 Elantra especially the 01-03 Elantra's look good. The 03 Tibby is a looker too. The late 90's/early 00's Tibby was wild looking. It looked liked a 94 Celica in the front.

    "Who else but the Koreans could give us something as funky as the Kia Amanti?"

    ahhh, the Amanti looked like a Mercedes from the front.

    On a side note, the early 90's Hyundai Scoupe I remember when they were running commercials on the TV for it when it was on the market. I thought that was a cool looking car at that time. I was 13 or 14 years old at the time(could have been 1992 or 1993) when the Scoupe was out in the car market. I saw one too a week or two ago and I was thinking in my head wow that car looked good back in the day.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "Really? I am surprised to hear you say that, to my eye the Elantra is just about the blandest, most blend-into-the-crowd Hyundai there is. I would rate the Civic and Corolla both better-looking, with the Mazda3 still the segment champ for styling."

    I think the Corolla is the blandest out of that bunch. The Elantra did look better than the 01-05 Civic(hate to say) but Honda hit it right with the 06 Civic Coupe. Yeah I'll agree the 3 is probably the best looking in its class.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "I think Honda will probably have to (dreaded word) merge with another company if it hopes to expand rapidly enough to keep up with the big 4."

    Everybody thought Honda would have merge with somebody back in 2000 when Chrysler merged with Mercedes. It never happened. Honda is a pretty rich company. Its not like they are losing money. Honda has 10-11 years straight of Year to date sales in the US(positive sales.)
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "Here, both Toyota and Hyundai are lagging - neither has a model that is pointed out in the marketplace as truly stylish. Right now, Hyundai is probably ahead in the "styling race", but with the next generation of Toyotas (beginning with the new Avalon last year and the new Camry in two months' time), Toyota may move ahead in a more stylish way."

    Yeah but Hyundai has made it clear I think that they are going after Toyota which means being mass-market. If they were going for styling they would be going after Chrysler and Nissan which judging from their styling direction they aren't doing.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "Different sells."

    "Ask Chrysler.... they had 5% increase for 05 over 04, i read. It sure was not due to simple, copy cat, or "quiet" designs, that do not stand out."

    Yeah Chrysler does have a nice unique style of its own but different car companies go for different audiences in terms of style. For example Toyota would never make a car that is going to head to head compete with Chrysler on the styling front because Chrysler and Toyota go for different audiences.
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    What planet are you living on ? Haven't you read the news ? Most auto analyst believes Toyota will surpass GM by the end of this year or early next year. That is a fact. I have been to China and Toyota is growing faster than GM in China. The notion that Chinese will not buy Japanese car is a myth. Both Honda and Toyota are doing very well in China. Toyota will be the largest auto maker by the end of this year or early next year. GM is teetering on the brink of bankruptcy while Toyota is the most profitable automaker in the world. In many ways Toyota is already bigger than GM.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,828
    GM isn't losing money globally. Just in the U.S. They are still the Biggest Car Manufactor on the planet and should remain so.

    Still more MISINFORMATION.

    According to the GM Worldwide CONSOLIDATED Financial Statements as files by management with the United States Security and Exchange Commission, GM lost $2.2 billion dollars in the first two quarters of the fiscal year.

    See the following link:
    link title

    What little money they are making abroad is more than offset by the monet that they are hemorraging in the North American markets.

    WHAT IS SCARIER?? They lost $4.6 Billion on their automotive operations. How long will they find willing sources of cash from the market with such "STELLAR" performance.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAMember Posts: 9,400
    Toyota - Preparing to be Number One

    I just ran into a good friend on Toyota's PR staff and asked if he's getting ready to deal with becoming the world's largest automaker.

    "Hey," he said, "being the biggest won't sell one more car. Market share doesn't pay the bills."

    Yes, he's getting the lines ready!


    http://blogs.edmunds.com/.ee8e1e9/0
  • smith20smith20 Member Posts: 256
    Yes
  • kankokuonlykankokuonly Member Posts: 15
    It looks like Toyota fears Hyundai/Kia more than GM/Ford or even Honda... :P

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10791371/
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    That story has one thing that is incorrect. Hyundai sold 455,012(something like this) vehicles in 05, not 418,000+, like the story said.
    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/01/04/205036.html

    I know in Nov, Sonata saels were over 14,200+ units, and made it the 7th largest selling vehicle(car?) that month, and in November, they sold like what, 22,000+?
    So, maybe they are in the top 5 now with this model?

    Anyhow, yeah, the rest of that story clicks with what I posted.

    I am still gonna buy a Mitsu, and get Eclipse "J-Cool" car ;)

    Read as story Mistu is gonna push it's Japanese heritage, versus Toyota and Hyundai trying to "become American" companies(style-wise, et al), they said(detnews.com, or was it theautochannel.com?).
    :confuse:
    Whatever.
    Peace.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    with them controlling Kia, and Kia selling over 275,000+ units last year(a record for them), the Hyundai Motor Group(Hyundai/Kia) sold over 730,000+ units in 05, in USA.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/01/04/205036.html

    418,000+ for 04 sales, 455,000+ for 05(article claimed Hyundai lost 7.7% in 05, sales fell? Maybe I should write articles. Probably gained 7.7%, and I read they had closer to 3% market share this year. Combined with Kia, over 4%, like 4.5% on one site, 5% on another site. Who knows?. I could look, but I am tired of net searching).

    20,000+ Sonatas sold in december 05. A record for them. Accord sold what, 23,000+?
    Camry, 24-25K?
  • danf1danf1 Member Posts: 935
    Camry sales were 33,324
    Accord was 26,370
    Sonata was 20,853
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    people get tired of this future/retro car -meets- truck stuff, say in 5-10 years?

    People will eventually want something different, won't they?

    The Caliber sounds like a great vehicle, but that Truck Grille, it kind of detracts from the looks of it, IMHO.

    Maybe in different colors other than the Orange or Red one's been showing on the news sites?

    Maybe some darker colors?

    I know it is a crossover, but why does everything have that gaping "maw" up front?
    The fenders alone make it look like it is a Chrysler(like the Magnum, and others, with those square-ish, extended fenders).
    Is the PT Cruiser going to get a Ram-like grille next?
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    I 100% agree. I said the typical foreign car buyer is one who is looking for the best car for his money. That is why the Camcords have been #1. Hyundai is going split up the camcord monopoly hear in the U.S.

    -Big 3 customers are loyalist who want to drive a american domestic brand.

    -By the way pf-flyer I read that in January GM had 25% of the market. So Toyota will have to wait a while to become #1 ;)

    Rocky
  • ikces81ikces81 Member Posts: 10
    all excels were made with mitsu engines, and mostly fitted with mitsu trannys... before 2001 hyundai used alot of misut engines either sourced or built by them.
  • carexpert101carexpert101 Member Posts: 6
    I believe that Hyundai and Toyota will be fighting for number one spot in terms of car sales globally in the near future. Having said that, Hyundai has an edge to become number one over Toyota because Hyundai can sell the equal quality or even better quality cars at a lower price due to their cheaper labor. Also, two of the largest future markets, China and India, do not have friendly feelings towards Japanese products because Chinese and Indians still remember the massacre and cruel rapes Japanese soliders committed during WWII.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    ...that's concerned about Hyundai. Anyone who can be the low-cost producer AND achieve good quality is going to be a formidable competitor.

    Generally speaking, low-cost producers are not quality producers, and vice versa, which makes it possible for automakers to build in higher cost markets yet remain competitive because they can justify the higher wages with better quality, superior design, etc.

    Hyundai may be throwing a wrench in the works for everyone. GM's purchase of Daewoo is likely a move that attempts to stay one step ahead of this.

    I would expect that ALL of the automakers will be looking to expand in low labor cost markets, such as Mexico, South Africa, India and China, particularly the latter. If you don't think that the Big 2.5 are also watching these developments, think again.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    for Hyundai were up, but only by 150 or so units over 05 feb.
    As http://thecarconnection.com(or was it http://theautochannel.com reported) Korean makers Hyundai and Kia are about flat on sales. Accent, which is brand new, for the past few months(3-4?) sales are Down, which is not a good thing.
    Add Yaris, Versa, newer Aveo coming out, Fit, etc....(even the fairly decent newer Kia Rio is not selling well) not good.
    The local dealership said Hyundai is going to bring out a larger Santa fe, but the one's they have are not selling( if not for Sonata and Elantra, Hyundai would have Lost sales over 05, since Santa fe sales are down over 05).

    Gas is $2.45+ a gallon. Lower mpg "suv's" aren't selling as well as last year.

    The Azera is selling well, but it won't be a 10,000+ per month sales thing. Hyundai can't depend on that to help them gain massive monthly sales.
    More of a prestige thing, that makes them more money for each sale.

    I dunno.
    Like a few guys on one Hyundai forum said"If only Hyundai would have brought that SR Accent with 200HP over here, like they have coming out in Europe!"

    They also have been showing these NEOS-I-II_III forever, and other cars, like HCD-8, and HCD-9, for 2-3 years....
    it takes them forever to decide what to make, and when to release it, it seems.
    Dodge shows a concept, and in 1-2 years, it's in the lots, almost as is from the concepts. Same for Toyota.

    Hyundai needs to speed things up, make some crossovers, Not suv-cars, to compete with these vehicles like HHR, that sells avg of over 8000+ units per month, and caliber could match those sales.

    It is like they are a day late and a dollar short on some things. Trucks, too. They could use one.

    Who knows?
    For 06, so far, they are flat sales, practically.

    Hope when the Tiburon comes out, it is on par of a Mitsubishi Eclipse, but a grand or three cheaper, or bring out a Sonata Coupe(3 door/hatch would make sense!).
    Something.

    Later.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    not knocking Hyundai, but they need maybe trucks and sporty cars(mazda3, tC), more than a luxury "division" right now, to get mor epeople in the doors, and buying more vehicles.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAMember Posts: 15,306
    ...is develop their own hybrid and sell it for a far more reasonable price than the Prius. This would really knock Toyota on its butt.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    I thought Hyundai has its own hybrid. The new Accent hybrid should be out in a few months (in-house hybrid, right?)

    Aside from luxury models Hyundai has planned, trucks are not entirely out of question (still waitinng for confirmation), also Sonata variants are also in the plans (coupe and convertible). Other exciting plans to include the new Tiburon, in both coupe and convertible form, Accent SR, among other future models.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Aside from luxury models Hyundai has planned, trucks are not entirely out of question (still waitinng for confirmation), also Sonata variants are also in the plans (coupe and convertible). Other exciting plans to include the new Tiburon, in both coupe and convertible form, Accent SR, among other future models.

    Hyundai has been smart to address its problems head-on, and to approach the market with a goal of gaining credibility and word of mouth.

    Basic strategy: Overcome the bad reputation earned during the eighties by building a reliable car with a bit of style and a low price. Use that success and subsequent good press and word of mouth to enter other segments with some credibility and track record to show for it.

    By the way, that's the method by which many successful companies (not just automakers) grow their businesses -- get a reputation for doing one or two things very well, then expand from there. Give Hyundai credit for having a good game plan and for coming back from the dead.
  • ubbermotorubbermotor Member Posts: 307
    Could it be? Is it true? Toyota lost market share in Febuary? For 2005 they were at 13.3%. For Jan. it was up to 14%, but in Febuary it was down to 13.2%. This wasn't due to fleet sales at GM and Ford becuase they also dropped market share. Who had the big increase? Could it have been Hyundai? Gasp!
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    it was Honda. And the business section yesterday reported Toyota up 2% in sales vs a year ago. I guess that may be a decline in market share though - not sure.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    It's not that easy to pinpoint Toyota's lost in shares, there could be a number of sources - I would think both Honda and Hyundai had something to do with it, as well as others. Overall, everything seemed to have balanced out, as we saw a fairly flat Feb. for the US auto industry.
  • carexpert101carexpert101 Member Posts: 6
    There are several mysteries about Hyundai. First, how could they improve their quality so quickly? Their quality improvement is unprecedented. It took Toyota or Honda several decades to achieve that level. According to several counsumer reports, Hyundai ranks #1 having the fewest number of defects. Because looking at 1980s and 1990s, their quality was not very good. Second, how can they sell their quality and fully equipped cars at such a low price? They have cheaper labor or something? Hyundai's cars are fully loaded in basic features and already better quality than Toyota or Honda. But how can they still make their cars at a lower price? All in all, Hyundai has done something no other company could've ever dreamed of. I think sky is the limit for this unbelievable company. Who can be in the way of Hyundai?
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